Saturday June 27 - 11am PT/ 7pm UK/8pm CET
Zoom https://zoom.us/j/9896109339     

Can Meet

What do you want to discuss?

1. Edwin Notes

   1. AI can help create instructional and Promotional Material

   2. Circle Structure

      1. 1. Commitment - a certain amount of time

         2. Around a topic - for a target group

            1. 1. getting older

               2. lifes transcitions

               3. grief

               4. etc

   3. Legal Issues

      1. 1. 
            

   4. Facilitator Training

      1. 1.  Perhaps create a Training Module for hosting paid Empathy Circles.

         2.  

   5. Cost Structure

      1. 1. 
            

   6. Promotion - how to promote the service?

      1. 1.  LinkedIn Events

         2.  NewsLetter

   7. What is the difference between Free and Paid?
      Why would someone pay?  

      1. 1.  person is seen as a professional

         2. the facilitator can be a area expert.

         3.  a level of training -  to hold the space.

         4.  a time commitment -  4 weeks for example -  prepay

         5.  a contract  - confidentiality 

         6.  Facilitator is compensated for the organizational time

         7.  more focus and commitment

         8.  Benefits - active listening skill building

   8. How to Frame the Practice

      1. 1. self-care

         2. healing

         3. growth

         4. conflict resolution

         5. Skill Building

         6. coaching

   9. Topics

      1. 1. struggling with parenting  - someone that knows about parenting, expertise in a topic

         2. neurodiversity 

         3. Menopause 

         4. 
            

   10. Try it out.

   11. Add Ons to Deepen the Experience - this is left to the facilitator - a tool kit of addons

       1. Somatic work

       2. home work exercises - extra resources 

       3. Questions - Mahip guides the rounds with questions

       4. Empathy Buddy Meeting

   12. how many participants for an empathy circle in 90 min

       2. 1. Mahip - 90 min was enough

             1. 1. a how to

                2. check-ins

                3. questions you are dealing with

                4. debrief 

   13. Create a trial Test

       2. 1. 
             

2. Ingrid

3. Beata

4. Mahip

5. Vikki

Gemini create a summary and detailed outline of this meeting video.
These meeting are To Develop The paid Mutual Support Empathy Circle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgyLr70eDJ0

 

Video Here is a summary and detailed chronological outline of the Paid Support Empathy Circles Development Project Meeting 2 held on June 27, 2026.

Executive Summary

The primary objective of this meeting was to continue developing a viable model for paid empathy circles that can serve as an income-generating opportunity for facilitators while remaining legally and structurally distinct from professional therapy. The core team comprised Ingrid (facilitator/host), Edwin Rutsch (founder of the empathy movement), and psychotherapists/coaches Biata, Mahib, and Vicki.

The group explored how to add sufficient value to justify a fee compared to free drop-in sessions. They identified structural features such as a fixed series with multi-week commitments, confidentiality agreements, and topic-specific cohorts (e.g., life transitions, neurodiversity, menopause, or immigrant experiences). Instead of using standard "therapy" terms, they framed the service around self-care, personal support, and personal growth. To refine the model, the group agreed to run trial testing sessions among an expanded pool of 7 to 8 experienced practitioners where they can model unique facilitation styles, pilot somatic or reflective add-ons, and provide direct feedback before offering the product to the general public.

Detailed Meeting Outline

I. Introductions and Backgrounds [00:00:00 - 00:05:12]

• Participant Introductions: Ingrid introduces the participants, noting that while she knows everyone from separate training networks, they do not all know one another.

• Vicki (UK): A humanistic psychotherapist designing creative educational interventions for children. She highlights her upcoming PhD research focusing on empathy across the lifespan.

• Mahib (Massachusetts, US): A humanistic psychologist, life coach, and meditation teacher.

• Biata (London, UK): A psychotherapist and coach who has worked with a homeless charity for 20 years and has been involved with empathy circles for roughly 4 years.

• Edwin Rutsch (Bay Area, US): Founder of the empathy movement. He traces his initial realization of the process back to Occupy Wall Street and underscores the necessity of creating financial stability for long-term facilitators.

II. Reviewing Core "Paid vs. Free" Distinctions [00:05:12 - 00:14:02]

• Commitment and Safety: A paid circle requires upfront commitment for a set duration (e.g., a 4-to-6-week series). This removes the instability of standard drop-in circles, leading to deep safety and a higher probability of emotional openness.

• Confidentiality Contracts: Implementation of signed or strict verbal confidentiality agreements ensures a tighter container for the group.

• Targeted Niche Topics: Grouping participants by shared life circumstances or challenges makes marketing easier. Proposed topics include aging, life transitions, communication for couples, menopause, late-diagnosed neurodiversity, or parenting.

• Ethical Scaffolding: Vicki emphasizes that high-level training in handling group dynamics, safeguarding procedures, and identifying triggers creates an ethical space that clients will pay for.
  
  

III. The "Therapeutic" vs. "Therapy" Borderline [00:14:02 - 00:23:52]

• Framing the Framework: The group strongly agrees that the term "therapy" must be avoided to avoid legal or professional liability, particularly given strict medical licensing laws in the US.

• The Yoga Teacher Analogy: Ingrid suggests a parallel to yoga: individuals can learn it via free videos or books, but they choose to pay for a structured, guided live environment led by an experienced guide.

• Lived Experience Over Clinical Authority: Mahib and Vicki point out that clients inherently value outcome-driven packages run by an organized facilitator who holds unique lived experiences matching their niche.
  
  

IV. Marketing, Value Propositions, and Toolkits [00:23:52 - 00:49:19]

• Organizational Compensation: Edwin highlights that paying a facilitator compensates them for administrative work, freeing the clients from holding structural tracking responsibilities.

• Case Study (South Asian Men's Group): Mahib shares a successful trial where he gathered three immigrant clients into an empathy circle structure for 4 weeks. They utilized specialized journaling prompts prior to meeting, which allowed them to move past superficial discussion into limiting belief systems.

• Add-On Practices: The team designs a "toolkit" of structural features that facilitators can stack into a premium experience:

  • Presencing Add-ons: Initial breathing exercises, meditation, or polyvagal/vagus nerve toning to ground participants somatic-style.

  • Prompt Injections: Tailored, multi-layered reflective questions designed by the facilitator that spiral from cognitive check-ins down into deep relational dynamics.

  • Inter-session Work: Homework, resource toolkits, recorded guided meditations, or the assignment of weekly "empathy buddies" for 30-minute outside calls.
    
    

V. Planning the Practical Trial Phase [00:49:19 - 01:21:39]

• Testing Group Logistics: Biata proposes running pilot test circles among themselves to evaluate timing, styles, and to offer rigorous feedback.

• Participant Sizing: The consensus is that a 90-minute format is ideal, restricted to a strict maximum of 5 participants (including the facilitator) to ensure everyone receives 4 to 5 distinct 5-minute speaking rounds.

• Niche Testing Debate: Ingrid originally suggests finding brand-new outside participants to test marketing and real reactions. Biata suggests keeping it internal first to dissect pure facilitation mechanics without external group variables. They agree to start internally.

• Calendar Architecture & Pool Expansion: Coordinating across different time zones (US Pacific vs. UK/Europe) and balancing childcare/work schedules proves highly complex.

  • They agree to establish a larger pool of 7 to 8 experienced practitioners (including inviting regular practitioners like Terry and Bethania) so they can regularly hit a 5-person attendance target.
    
    
    

VI. Next Steps & Closing Wrap-up [01:21:39 - 01:29:07]

• Immediate Timeline:

  • Following Week: A smaller brainstorming and scheduling coordination meeting with Edwin, Ingrid, and Vicki (scheduled for 9:00 AM Pacific Time).

  • July 19, 2026: First official internal practical trial circle. Biata will act as the head facilitator, piloting an intense structural theme focused on "Disconnection and Loneliness."

• Note-Taking & Weather Postlude: Edwin and Ingrid commit to updating their shared Google Doc with AI summaries. The meeting concludes with a casual exchange regarding the heavy summer heat wave in cement-dense London versus the coastal fog system of San Francisco.

Gemini - create a report on the topics and insights from the video. 

Project Report: Strategic Insights and Functional Frameworks for Paid Empathy Circles

Project Title: Paid Support Empathy Circles Development Project

Data Source: Project Development Meeting 2 (Recorded June 27, 2026)

Project Objective: To architect an independent, income-generating model for advanced Empathy Circle facilitators that offers high consumer value while maintaining structural, ethical, and legal distinctions from clinical therapy.

1. Value Proposition: Structuring "Paid" vs. "Free" Environments

The core challenge identified by the panel is overcoming the "free alternative trap"—answering why a participant would pay for a service when the global empathy movement offers numerous free, drop-in sessions weekly. The group identified five premium structural layers that transform a standard practice into a high-value, paid asset:

2. The Clinical Boundary: "Therapeutic" vs. "Therapy"

A critical point of deep discussion centered around navigating professional liability and legal restrictions, particularly concerning protected professional terms in regions like the United States.

Core Insights:

• The Ethical Boundary: The service must be explicitly positioned under frameworks of self-care, personal support, skill-building, or personal growth. Facilitators must never frame their circles as a psychological treatment plan, even if they hold professional clinical credentials.

• The Container Philosophy: Rather than acting as an interventionist trying to "fix" a pathology, the facilitator is paid strictly to maintain an organic, highly stable, protective container. The method itself (active listening, reflection, and presence) acts as the healing engine on behalf of the group.

• The Yoga Analogy: As framed by the panel, consumers can read books or watch free videos to learn the mechanics of yoga, yet they routinely pay a premium to enter a dedicated studio environment. The teacher is compensated for holding the space, tuning the atmosphere, and cultivating a shared collective focus.
  
  

3. Premium Curations: Architectural Add-ons & Pacing

To elevate the product beyond standard guidelines, the group proposed a series of curated "add-ons." These tools are designed to move a group smoothly from cognitive, superficial sharing into somatic, deep relational awareness within a fixed 90-minute timeframe.

Phase 1: Somatic Presencing (Minutes 0–10)

Facilitators introduce initial somatic anchors before any discussion begins. Techniques like breathwork, sensory grounding, or vagus nerve toning (e.g., polyvagal regulation) help participants drop internal clutter, land in their bodies, and down-regulate the nervous system.

Phase 2: Strategic Prompt Injections (Minutes 10–75)

Instead of wide-open, free-form topics, premium facilitators map out a sequential, spiraling series of structural questions:

• Round 1 (Surface Level): General check-in regarding the client's current weekly state.

• Round 2 (Core Challenge): A targeted, deep dive into specific lifestyle bottlenecks (e.g., “What is the single biggest limiting belief holding back your routine right now?”).

• Round 3 (Relational Layer): Probing how the participants are experiencing the immediate emotional field inside the digital room.
  
  

Phase 3: Out-of-Circle Ecosystem (Inter-session)

Value is expanded beyond the live calls through custom educational integration:

• Pre-Circle Grounding: Providing clients with list-based journaling prompts several days ahead of the circle to clear mental blocks early.

• Empathy Buddies: Pairing cohort members up for required, mid-week 30-minute peer-to-peer active listening exchanges.

• Audio Packages: Offering custom recorded guided meditations or mindfulness resources as continuous lifestyle support.
  
  

4. Operationalization & Next Steps

Real-world application revealed that a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio (1 facilitator to 4 or 5 clients) represents the structural threshold for a premium 90-minute format. This balance preserves high relational depth while ensuring every participant can claim at least four or five separate 5-minute speaking intervals.

Internal Action Plan:

To ensure product quality, the group rejected standard, lenient peer-review metrics in favor of sharp, developmental critique during an internal testing phase.

1. Pool Expansion: Expand the internal development roster to a stable pool of 7 to 8 advanced practitioners to consistently guarantee 5-person attendance on test calls, regardless of individual scheduling conflicts across time zones.

2. Facilitation Modeling: Establish an internal calendar of alternating test circles. Different facilitators will take the lead on each call to demonstrate distinct stylistic approaches and evaluate various structural add-ons.

3. Pilot Test Launch: The team will run a dedicated 90-minute simulation on Sunday, July 19, 2026, at 9:00 AM Pacific Time. Biata will facilitate this session, testing a concentrated, high-depth premium prompt framework centered around the universal human theme of "Disconnection and Loneliness."

Zoom Meeting summary

Quick recap

The meeting focused on developing paid empathy circle offerings as an income opportunity for facilitators. Participants discussed key features that would distinguish paid circles from free ones, including committed participation over several sessions, focused topics, confidentiality agreements, and additional facilitator training. The group explored why people would pay for these services, considering factors like professional expertise, structured commitment, and the value of a dedicated community space. They debated the importance of framing the offering as "therapeutic" versus "self-care" or "personal growth" to avoid legal issues while acknowledging the deeply therapeutic nature of the process. The team agreed to conduct trial runs of paid circles among themselves to test the structure and gather feedback before expanding the offering to the broader community.

Next steps

Beata

• Facilitate a trial paid Empathy Circle on the topic of "disconnection or loneliness" on Sunday, July 19th, 9 AM Pacific, with 4 other participants (including Ingrid, Edwin, and potentially Mahip and Vicky if available; otherwise recruit others from the wider group).

• Select and communicate the specific topic for the July 19th circle to Ingrid and the group for promotion and participant recruitment.

Edwin

• Post meeting notes and relevant AI-generated content to the shared Google Doc and coordinate with Ingrid on including additional AI insights.

• At next week's meeting, continue to discuss scheduling, recruitment, and the structure of the trial runs, incorporating input from all participants.

Ingrid

• Invite additional relevant participants (e.g., Terry and others with therapy/coaching backgrounds) to expand the pool for future trial circles and feedback sessions.

• Send out a message to the group confirming next week's 9 AM meeting (for ongoing brainstorming and scheduling), and communicate the plan for the July 19th trial circle to all relevant participants.

• Ensure exactly 4 additional participants (besides Beata) are confirmed for the July 19th session, prioritizing Mahip and Vicky, then reaching out to others if needed.

Collaboration

• All (Ingrid, Beata, Edwin, Mahip, Vicky, and invited others): Attend the July 19th trial circle and provide constructive feedback to Beata on facilitation, structure, and participant experience.

• All: Continue to brainstorm and coordinate via email/next meeting to establish a regular schedule (using Doodle or similar) for future trial circles and training/practice sessions, ensuring sufficient participant pool for each session.

• All: For future sessions, prepare to test different facilitation styles, topics, and structures, and be ready to give and receive feedback after each trial circle.

Zoom Summary

Paid Empathy Circles Development Discussion

The group met to discuss developing paid empathy circles as an income opportunity for facilitators. Ingrid, Edwin, Beata, Vicky, and Mahip introduced themselves and shared their backgrounds in psychology and therapy. The team identified key features for paid circles, including a committed series of sessions, focused topics, potential confidentiality agreements, and additional facilitator training. They also discussed the need for support structures and addressed legal liability concerns. The group agreed to test these concepts in their own circles and planned to discuss additional training needs in their next meeting.

Paid vs Free Empathy Circles

The group discussed the differences between free and paid empathy circle offerings, with Beata questioning what features would justify paid services. Vikki suggested that additional training for facilitators, including group therapy skills and safeguarding protocols, could provide value that distinguishes paid from free circles. The discussion clarified that while empathy circles should not be labeled as therapy due to legal and professional considerations, they could offer structured self-care and personal growth frameworks led by trained facilitators. Mahip raised questions about pricing and the potential for specialized facilitators with expertise in specific topics like parenting.

Paid Empathy Circles Proposal

Vikki proposed creating structured paid empathy circles focused on topics like late diagnosis of neurodiversity and menopause for women across different life stages. The group discussed potential reasons people would pay for these circles, including professional facilitation, time commitment, confidentiality, and the value of structured support. Ingrid suggested these paid circles would not be listed on the regular empathy center calendar and would require facilitators to find their own participants.

Paid Empathy Circles Implementation Discussion

The group discussed implementing paid empathy circles, with participants sharing experiences about combining empathy circles with their existing coaching and therapy practices. Mahip described his model of using empathy circles within a paid coaching program for South Asian men, while noting the challenges of marketing to new clients outside his existing network. The discussion highlighted the potential benefits of having facilitators with deep expertise in specific topics, though Ingrid raised concerns about maintaining clear distinctions between empathy circles and therapy while leveraging the therapeutic aspects as a marketing advantage.

Empathy Circles Service Planning

The group discussed how to structure and market empathy circles as a paid service, focusing on balancing therapeutic benefits with avoiding the appearance of therapy. They agreed to conduct trial sessions among themselves to test different facilitation styles, topics, and structures before offering paid circles to the public. Beata proposed leading a trial circle on the topic of disconnection or loneliness, with a target of 4-5 participants including herself as facilitator. The group decided to meet next week at 9 AM to continue planning and discuss schedules, with the goal of eventually involving a larger pool of 7-8 people for practice sessions.

AI SEARCH

Skilled facilitator creates and holds a space that most people never experience in daily life — a space of genuine, unhurried attention and non-judgmental listening. That is rare and valuable

• We pay for yoga instructors, meditation teachers, life coaches, and personal trainers — none of whom are licensed therapists, all of whom contribute meaningfully to wellbeing. A skilled Empathy Circle facilitator belongs in exactly that category

• The healing effect of feeling understood is well documented. Carl Rogers himself demonstrated that the therapeutic conditions — empathy, unconditional positive regard, congruence — produce measurable change. The Empathy Circle delivers those conditions in a group setting. The fact that it isn't called therapy doesn't diminish its effect

• Payment also signals value to participants. Free things are often unconsciously treated as optional or low-stakes. A modest fee increases commitment, attendance, and the seriousness with which participants engage

• Payment allows facilitators to invest in their own training, supervision, and development — which directly benefits participants. Volunteerism is noble but unsustainable at scale. If the practice is going to grow and professionalize, facilitators need a viable income model

• Think of it as paying for skilled human presence — something increasingly scarce and increasingly needed in an isolated, screen-mediated world

Gemini AI SEARCH
flesh this out How to Frame the empathy circle Practice. As:

• self-care

• healing

• growth

• conflict resolution

• Skill Building

• coaching 

Because the Empathy Circle is such a foundational practice, it can be adapted and presented to meet people exactly where their current needs are. Depending on your audience—whether you are pitching to a corporate HR department, a community support group, or an individual seeking personal development—the way you frame the circle changes its perceived value.

Here is how you can flesh out the framing for each of these distinct lenses, keeping the core mechanics of Active Listening front and center.

1. Framed as Self-Care

When pitching to individuals who are burned out, overwhelmed, or seeking emotional maintenance, position the circle as a restorative practice.

• The Focus: Emotional regulation and offloading mental weight.

• The Benefit: In our fast-paced world, we rarely get to speak without being interrupted, fixed, or given unsolicited advice. The circle provides a dedicated space where you can just be. It is a structured time-out from the demands of daily life.

• The Framing Pitch: "Think of an Empathy Circle as a massage for your nervous system. It is a dedicated, safe space where you can drop your armor, speak your truth, and experience the profound relief of being fully heard without judgment or the pressure to 'fix' anything."

2. Framed as Healing

When speaking to communities dealing with grief, trauma, or systemic pain, frame the circle as a relational container.

• The Focus: Being seen, validated, and held by a community.

• The Benefit: Healing rarely happens in isolation. By practicing Basic Empathy—directly sensing into the experience of another—participants create a web of mutual support. The validation that comes from an Active Listener accurately hearing your pain helps integrate those difficult emotions.

• The Framing Pitch: "Healing happens in connection. The Empathy Circle provides a safe, structured container where your experiences are honored and validated. By being truly seen and heard by others, we untangle our individual pain and build collective resilience."

3. Framed as Growth

When talking to people interested in personal development, spiritual expansion, or emotional intelligence, frame it as an exercise in expanding their worldview.

• The Focus: Self-discovery and expanding perspective.

• The Benefit: Speaking our thoughts aloud helps us organize them, leading to "aha" moments. Simultaneously, stepping into the role of the Active Listener forces us to temporarily suspend our own biases and directly sense the reality of someone else.

• The Framing Pitch: "Empathy is a muscle, and the Empathy Circle is the gym. It is a practice of profound self-discovery where you not only clarify your own internal world but stretch your capacity to hold and understand the diverse realities of others."

4. Framed as Conflict Resolution

When addressing activists, civic leaders, or groups experiencing tension, frame the practice as a tool for bridging social polarization and de-escalating reactivity.

• The Focus: Slowing down the conversation and guaranteeing mutual comprehension.

• The Benefit: In a conflict, people usually listen only to formulate their rebuttal. The Empathy Circle short-circuits this. Because the Active Listener must accurately feed back the Speaker's meaning before moving on, it forces adversaries to actually hear each other, dismantling caricatures and reducing defensiveness.

• The Framing Pitch: "The Empathy Circle is a structural antidote to polarization. By slowing down the dialogue and requiring that every voice is accurately heard before a response is given, it transforms hostile debates into collaborative dialogues, helping us find shared humanity across deep divides."

5. Framed as Skill Building

When pitching to organizations, managers, or those looking to join the Empathy Movement as facilitators, frame it as a concrete, highly applicable training ground.

• The Focus: Mastering the mechanics of Active Listening and facilitation.

• The Benefit: It moves empathy from a vague concept to an actionable, repeatable skill. Participants learn how to hold space, track conversations, manage group dynamics, and apply these listening skills directly to their workplaces, families, and leadership roles.

• The Framing Pitch: "Empathy isn't just a feeling; it’s a trainable competency. Participating in an Empathy Circle is a hands-on laboratory for mastering Active Listening, emotional intelligence, and facilitation skills that will elevate your leadership and transform your daily communications."

6. Framed as Coaching

When addressing peer-support groups or professional development cohorts, frame the circle as a collaborative process for overcoming blocks and achieving goals.

• The Focus: Unlocking the Speaker's own inner wisdom.

• The Benefit: The Active Listener does not give advice; they act as a highly calibrated mirror. Often, people already have the answers to their own problems, but those answers are buried under anxiety or mental clutter. The structured reflection allows the Speaker to coach themselves.

• The Framing Pitch: "The Empathy Circle acts as a powerful peer-coaching environment. By acting as a clean mirror, the Active Listener helps you untangle your own thoughts, allowing you to bypass mental roadblocks and discover your own best solutions."