Big opinion overhaul on this page in June-July 2025.
Compacted on 1/28/24 to help with summarization.
Updated on 4/15/24 with newer standards and removed profanity and most all-capped words.
Updated on 7/14/24 with more summarized thoughts and how it added on top to the reasons my hiatus happened.
Updated on 9/28/24 to add thoughts on the descaling problem.
Updated on 1/18/25 to address certain things that *have* changed since the last update.
Oh boy, how do I start this...
Fictional Googology (FG) has been here for almost 4 years at this point, and while there have been a ton of ups and downs throughout its lifespan, there is still potential to the creativeness of this subject, even if the userbase is a bit reckless...just saying...
My viewpoint of FG has drastically changed throughout 2025, and while the userbase is still a bit questionable, the big potential for being creative with numbers from FG is sure to last for the coming years.
So, let's dive into what once was the worst experience and turn it into a moderate but enjoyable experience:
1. My Positives
Compared to my attitude towards FG back in 2023 and 2024, I now view FG as a goldmine for creative hierarchies that don't have to logically exist but exist as a fan-created extension to everything we currently know of. Technically they're not any larger than the true limit, but in a fictional space, who's to say we can't keep pushing it farther?
1.1. Number Names
There is definitely a lack of good number names out there, which I will get to later when I talk about my negatives, but for my positives with the number names, you can do a lot more creative names with fictional numbers than with normal googology, since you aren't restricted to just the standard boundaries.
Fictional Googology isn't just having numbers beyond Absolute Infinity (and, by extension, Absolute Totality); it's creating numbers that can have their own fictional logic and being creative (and possibly quirky) with their names. It doesn't have to follow actual logic as long as it makes sense to users and yourself.
1.2. Number Symbols
This is where it gets juicy. Using any Unicode character as a symbol for fictional numbers is a great way to discover symbols you thought didn't exist, but also, you don't need to constantly feed notation after notation. A new symbol shows new big milestones that may not be immediately obvious with notations.
Even with notations, different Unicode layouts can make them more interesting beyond just using parentheses, square brackets, and curly brackets. For more complex setups, custom Unicode characters used in notations can really sell that "beyond anything and everything" vibe.
But you don't just have to stop at Unicode characters. With the use of the Private Use Area Unicode hex codes, you can make your own symbols for numbers that aren't Unicode, and that's the cool part about this. You can make the symbols feel meaningful with the number they are tied to. You can make them be tied to progression, like changing the symbol slightly with each similar milestone, like ???? [x].
And for definition-based systems instead of recursion-based systems, the symbols can mean something similar to what the definition is. The sky's the limit with this!
1.3. Number Definitions
Speaking of number definitions, there's a lot of stuff on the rigorous side of FG that talks a lot about concepts with quirks, definitions, and whatnot. However, my knowledge of this kind of thing is very limited, as I can only see patterns easily when they are laid out and visualized, and definitions only click when they work with said patterns. I'll still give FGW admins some credit for the cool work they do in rigorous FG.
But even with that said, these fictional number definitions can be as creative, complex, or simple, or just be another milestone beyond a function. There can be dangerous definitions, though, so they shouldn't be used to make the space anti-competitive.
1.4. Different Hierarchies
I mentioned that FG isn't always numbers beyond Absolute Infinity/Totality but can have finite numbers that aren't real, multi-dimensional tetrational arrays beyond quaternions and octonions, extremely tiny numbers (quantumnumbers), and more.
FG can be as massive or as tiny as you want. There's no real limit to how big the numbers can get as long as it stays fair for everyone. There's no real "beyond" when it's infinitely expandable, and that can be exciting when a new massive milestone gets reached.
1.5. Community Size
This does have some downsides, but I want to mention the upsides to this first.
Because of how small FG's community is, you don't have to stress out about making something that may have otherwise gone viral in a not-so-good way. And the people interested in this are also friendly (I do have some strong takes on this fact, but still) in this small space too, so it may be easier to find a friend from here than in large public spaces.
There's a lot of room for experimentation here, so if something doesn't go that well, sure, you may get some criticism, but it never usually goes as far as making it viral against you like other spaces usually do. (And to be honest, it shouldn't be that way.)
Intelligent users like GMDM and groups like the Fixing FG project are trying to make it as easy as possible to understand fictional googology so we can make this community stay strong.
1.6. It can help learning regular googology easier
Even with this community discussing fictional concepts that don't follow real logic, it can help you learn real googology more easily just because the recursion rules are universal across the board. If you can understand how recursion builds in fictional numbers, then you can understand the recursion inside famous notations like Bowers' Exploding Array Function better.
I may recommend that you also know Celsius and the metric unit system as well, since statistics show that people that are metric-oriented can better understand googology than imperial-oriented minds. But even for imperial-oriented minds, if you can step out of your comfort zone and take time to learn how Celsius and metric work, you can still learn googology more easily than most stubborn people would.
2. My Negatives
Some of my negatives still stand today but don't hold my opinions hostage as they used to. There are still constant problems that have yet to be addressed properly. They just do not impact my enjoyment of FG as it used to. Some of these are unsurprising to you, but there are a few that might surprise you.
I will explain the problem at hand and, as a bonus, how I plan on addressing it for my future hierarchies.
2.1. Poor number name choices
There are numbers that do not have appealing number names to them. Most numbers just use the basic alphabet and nothing else, which is alright, but so many numbers just have names that use very frequent words in them that don't make them unique.
Numbers that use syllables that aren't frequent or use diacritics in the letters are unique, like The Zyrolexic Synchron or Ømegation, just as long as you don't make repetitive variants, like THE END, T.H.E. E.N.D., T..H..E.. E..N..D.., etc...
There are also certain words that shouldn't be used in number names; unless it has safer use cases, like "sex" in "sextillion," they should be avoided.
[WIP; not finalized opinion]
[OLD OPINIONS]
Oh boy, how do I start this...
Fictional Googology (FG) has been here for almost 3 years at this point, but it's community is getting so bad that it very well could die well before 2026.
The community here is so bad that it also is impacting Standard Googology (which I will refer to as just googology) and Quantum Googology.
So let's just dive into what is making it one of the worst experiences ever:
[I DO NOT ENCOURAGE HARASSING ANYONE MENTIONED IN THIS PAGE]
1. The community itself
The majority of the community is filled with countless users who...
A) are underaged and have zero experience in the real world
B) they spam nonstop weird stuff, especially the no context timestamp comments that can't be blocked
C) pretend to be very helpful when they're only ruining the experience more
D) making fun of people and then excuse them of doing something they were manipulated into saying with no consent
E) mispelling way too frequently
F) moderators that don't stop serious situations
G) don't accuately display info about situations on time
H) most moderators that don't know how to properly moderate the community
Like seriously? Is this seriously what I want to deal with every day? I get more aggressive everytime this happens, and I don't like being like that! I like being with people that are helpful and kind, but this? Throw that out of the window!
2. The content
2.1. The entries
It used to be okay when it was first made, but after Endless (or even Never in this matter) it started to not make any sense. Like why do ordinal levels need to be broken for more larger numbers? And why do they just sound so unoriginal to begin with?
It gets even worse after The Real Final Point (??? [3]). Now sure, there can be original numbers beyond this point, but couldn't we just put those in a more meaningful scale?
2.2. Cycles
I don't find these very meaningful in numbers anymore. There's like a million other ways to represent how many of these there are in a notation, but breaking just does not work here. Take illions for example, we didn't break them, but we keep expanding on top of it, even if it doesn't get any bigger. They can even cause epileptic seizures more than a simple counter can, since they cover the whole screen. Also, most of the time it speeds up the music, which can even damage peoples' eardrums.
There's also Absolute Everything Cycles (AE cycles) which is even worse. The same thing can be said here, except now it takes epilepsy and loud volume to a whole new level. Like seriously, people with epilepsy problems aren't even going to handle watching this. It gets worse when nowadays it is very, and I mean, VERY frequent and repetitive. It doesn't help when a large portion is reserved with this stuff, which ruins the point of being there in the first place.
Like seriously, if I'm being honest, sound/music and effects isn't meant to be used like this. Music is meant to be enjoyable, and effects is meant to bring more joy to a video, but this? Nah, I can't handle even a second of this nonsense content anymore.
2.3. Loops
The scale is confusing here. I no longer understand the point in these when they're confusing to compare to normal values. The speed these go depend on how far away you are from zero, and it could cause epileptic seizures depending on how fast it goes. Googology doesn't do any of that, but FG does.
2.4. The live chat
Almost all of the videos are premiered, and thus ties to everything I've said in point #1. A lot of the time, the live chat goes off-topic about annoying things unrelated to what is happening in the actual premiere. The things that happen are...
A) people screaming in the chat trying to find bunkers or shields to protect themselves from something that doesn't even affect them
B) people trying to start bad dramas that ruins the experience
C) moderators pretending to be cool but then throw out nuclears in the chat
D) people saying random things that are either copied from the premiere or unrelated to the premiere
Heck, even streams that have hundreds of thousands of viewers from creators with millions of subscribers, isn't even close to being this bad. At least there, moderators are on top of keeping the chat room clean unlike here.
3. Creating said content
Now, if it isn't something you'd do that common, then this may not sound like a big deal, but making this a full on career is almost impossible at this rate. The amount of editing needed to do this takes an enternity to do. The amount of files you need and the storage needed to do this is just unbearable to handle. Not to mention underaged kids being very impatient with your pacing. Taking your time is absolutely a necessity here, which can bore your audience. Now sure, people in other subjects take a long time to make masterpieces, and people don't get mad over how long it took to make it. But this is a community with mostly underaged kids, so who's waiting that long? NO ONE. And that's problematic.
Also, there's a massive problem with there being unfair rules here. Every number seems to ALWAYS have to be comparable to other paths, and that's problematic. Not being able to creatively make a new path without it immediately placed in ONE line can make people upset. This also ties to controversy arguing about what's correct and what isn't, as stated in several documentaries including this one: MetroChi's video. Now, even with this said, I don't think the solution should be to compound every scale into one, as I've stated before, because...
A) Some people don't like this happening to their scale, but even if this isn't the case...
B) There's really weird scales or otherwise scales that wouldn't make sense to put in one mixed path
Like for example, my MQG path is meant to be it's own thing, with a bitzy sized counting system and functions that would not work together with every single MQG path that doesn't use this, however early on in my MQGA series, JoshuaDR.0809 comments on part 1 of my series:
"Dec-Dupower of Zero!!
Equivalent to A[A[0]]."
Like bro, I already told you my path isn't meant to be compared to other MQG paths, yet you did it anyway!
Luckily later on he said he wouldn't do it anymore, but keep it in mind it still shouldn't happen just because you're a main path scaler and are just trying to nudge every possible milestone in every path, because that's not gonna work long-term.
Also, I'm looking at you FG Wiki, don't think I'm forgetting your unforgivable behavior there.
3.1 The scaling/descaling problem
Look, we all get into arguments in our lives at some point, whether it is something we don't like, or whatever. But this is taking it too far. Whenever someone in their famous path reaches a big milestone, especially with the recent Mathis R.V Part XIII final number, there's bound to be issues as to where to put it in the main path. There's so many sides to this controversy where people say its smaller than some specific number, or people saying its a new record holder, or whatnot.
We'll take MILLOM for example. There's many users like Psi, OddPandemonium, etc. who all have mixed feelings about where it should be. Psi made it above the final number of WUW Part 21 (I aren't memorizing these nonsense names), while Odd made it lower than EATTTOFG Part 24.
[NOTE: At this point, an official scale was made for MILLOM. Still though, this point is still applicable to future numbers.]
First off, skill issue that everyone's complaining about numbers (facts), but second, this could easily be solved in several ways, like not shoving every famous path into the main path (because, how the heck are you getting from Person 1's Point A to Person 2's Point B with no clear video to do that?) [Psi's number movie does not count.]
Oh, also, some people will just downright descale your number if you reach their number before them. Firstly, numbers get surpassed all the time, but second, don't be rude to them if they do. This'll make the situation escalate depending on how large your channel is. Beyond LOE is a perfect example of a series that hasn't been released by SW78 yet, but he immediately downscales you the second you make your video. Sigh...
Also, when Part 99 of The End of Numbers released, it upsetted MANY people that FF2K rescaled TEON by making TEONv2. I did talk about this in this page. After publishing this page, people responded to how TEONv2 was a shady move because it bypasses numbers that broke the very thing TEON was known for: being the Absolute Infinity of FG. TEONv2 broke the x of FG scale, which throws off the very thing it was meant to be.
But, what that page did NOT talk about, is that after Windows' Ultimate World Part XXIX+ was released, FF2K did the SAME THING, creating TEONv3 in a even more shady way, making me furious at FF2K. I talked in this post that TEONv3 was a BEYOND PATHETIC response to the final number, which does fit the criteria for surpassing TEONv2, but FF2K still pulls a "Fuck you, my number is bigger" moment, forcing a furious post from me.
What ended up happening is, FF2K got into a very overreactive state, where he wanted to go down Bored Thien's path (if you saw it you know what I'm talking about). Stella showed me screenshots, but I've been asked to keep it private, but what I saw was not a good sight to see. Eventually, TEONv3 was deleted, and the number Celestial Commandment was deemed bigger than TEON. TEON finally ended on December 31, 2024, and all future numbers can finally be bigger than it, and that's a good thing to see....cough cough, BEYOND TEON.....
4. Why FGers quit
This community has already lost Stella and me, and I doubt more are going to stay because of how bad it had gotten.
The amount of BS I've already mentioned, plus the fact that there's no point in continuing the infinite number line, is exactly why these people are quitting. I was once going to only quit FG content, but then the situation on June 30 happened, and that caused me to reconsider doing these kinds of videos. There's just no point in making more of these videos when the community is literally dying. Now, am I still doing some googology? Sure, but my interests can change at anytime, so I may lose interest in googology in general, but for now that's where I'm at.
Now, I'm still monitoring the comments even though I'm not making googology content on YouTube.
I will not update my thoughts on Quantum Googology and Negativology simply because most of what I said here apply there too.
But lately, there seems to be an increasingly amount of suicidal thoughts from some users, due to events from the NO! server and whatnot, including the December 1 situation, which wasn't good.
