Defending the Agency of the Motherland: The West’s Superiority Complex 

Season 1, Episode 5

Fareea and Tarchithaa are joined by Stacey (she/her) in a conversation on the oppression and privilege that their intersectional identities allow for as queer members of their respective diasporas. Stacey walks us through the nuances of connecting with her Filipino-American identity, from colorism in the Philippines to differing reflections on a future in America. Recognizing the dismissive actions of white saviors in regards to their home countries, the frustrating realities of being tokenized as a spokesperson in the West also unearths the need to protect the cultural agency of their culture historically disenfranchised by colonialism. 

Check out Stacey’s Instagram here: @steakyyy_

Find us on Instagram : @theeqilproject.

This season of The EQIL Pod is sponsored by the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation.

Full Episode Transcript

Fareea: Hello and welcome back to The EQIL Podcast. As usual, we're here with, Fareea Khan, he, him pronouns and

Tarchithaa: Tarchithaa, I go by she her pronouns.

Fareea: And today we have Stacey as a guest. Stacey, would you like to introduce yourself?

Stacey: Hello, I'm Stacey. I go by she, her pronouns. I am a senior in college and I'm graduating in two weeks, so, wow.

Tarchithaa: Congratulations.

Stacey: Thank you.

Fareea: So is there anything you would like to, start off, sharing any backgrounds or anything, or just,

Stacey: um, I am Filipino. I am from Staten Island, New York, but both my parents immigrated from in the Philippines. Um, they speak [00:01:00] Ilonggo.

I don't, it was my first language, but then I had to stop learning it 'cause of some stuff in like school.

Fareea: Has your experience with immigration changed your perception of self?

Stacey: I do think so. I mean, just like, 'cause I didn't personally immigrate, my parents did. Mm-hmm. But like, even then, I still think that that's still like a pretty big aspect of my identity. Like being the kid of two immigrants.

 I went to like a pretty not diverse, um, Catholic school, like in Staten Island, which is like primarily Italian demographics. So like hearing them talk about like, oh, like all of my grandparents are here. Like, I bake like cookies with my grandparents and they baked cookies with their grandparents.

I was like, well, I don't, I don't think we ever did that in the Philippines and my grandparents aren't even here. Just like that alone, kind of formed like part of my identity. And I also just think that like, you know, like a lot of people say that [00:02:00] immigrants are like hardworking and like the whole like eldest daughter of immigrants like kind of trope.

So I feel like that's definitely a part of my identity as well. And trying to learn more about my culture from a Fil-Am like perspective.

Fareea: Yeah. Ooh. Based off of that, I was wondering if, because, , some of your, not all of your family have, , immigrated here, right?

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: So does that make you feel kind of distant from your culture or , have you like struggled with kind of feeling distant from your home country and your culture.

Stacey: Yeah. Um, I think that's an interesting question because the answer would've been a lot more different if you asked me like five years ago or like, even just like a year ago. Because I think because I was the youngest and I, I had like the privilege of being able to visit every three years until Covid hit.

Um, I think because I was the youngest, I was kind of like [00:03:00] coddled a little bit by like my family members in the Philippines. And I was still like in their eyes like a little girl. For them it was easier for me to like not see how distant everyone saw me. And for me to just be like, oh, I'm just the youngest kid.

Like being treated super nicely and everything's great and fun and, I feel super close to my home country. And then as I grew up. I kinda just like realized the way that my family kind of sees women provides like a distance in of itself. 'Cause I went back this summer, so seeing how like, my family perceives women, including me. And because I'm also seen as American, I'm seen as like less smart because I can't speak the language. Now I feel like there's no one in the Philippines or even in my family that I'm close to other than my brother.

Obviously my parents, feel so at home there 'cause that is their home. You know, like they came from there. They like miss it. They like dream about going back and like living there again. But I don't, like, [00:04:00] I never had that background.

So I do think that like, being here. Definitely over time has made me more distant. I've probably been this in my whole life, but I just never picked up on it 'cause I was a kid.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: I remember going back the first time I went back, it was like about two years after I'd immigrated to the United States and you were mentioning like misogyny. I, well you didn't directly say it, but I'm assuming Yeah, yeah. Just like how, um, your family perceives women. But anyways, this is me saying that I understand what you mean, like getting older and then looking back at your time and being like, dang, like maybe it always existed. And I just never realized it until I came into understanding my role in the world.

Stacey: Mm-hmm. I think that like, the forming of like your identities, like definitely like, has an effect on it. 'cause I also like think that like, obviously like growing up as a woman, but also just like growing up queer.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: And like, I also feel the thing where it's like knowing you'd be ostracized by your family. 'cause like there is a big like, like queer population in the [00:05:00] Philippines.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: But it's still not like in my family. Like that's like the difference. Yeah. Like in my family it's different. So it's just like, but um, 'cause yeah, 'cause like I'm not like out to like any of like my direct family, like my brother knows. But like. I think like, personally for me, maybe it's just because, like I grew up like, um, like with that kind of like environment. Like to me it's just like I'm in a relationship with a man, so it's like not as important for me to like come out. It's an important part of my like identity.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Stacey: But like to my parents, I don't think it's something that like, I would like, I would like go through the struggle of like them because it's like they're not gonna accept me anyways. And I don't know that for a fact.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Stacey: So it's like stuff like that and like, let alone the rest of my family, the Philippine like, my God.

 Yeah. And like the, like the skin and like hair. I think the Philippines, it's more like skin tone.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: So like, I don't think it's like papaya soap, but it's like

Tarchithaa: I know exactly what you're [00:06:00] talking about.

Fareea: Fair and lovely?

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: No, I know both because like Malaysia, they have the papaya soap, but fair and lovely because it's like Indian stuff.

Fareea: It's like so South Asian. Yeah.

Stacey: No, but yeah, like exactly. They like get you to like bleach your skin, but it's just like, I don't know. I like, 'cause it's like, for me, I've always liked being. Not like dark, but like tan. Mm-hmm. You know, like I've liked to have it. I liked my skin tone a lot. Like for me, I just liked, even though it set me apart from everyone else, I just liked it because that was one of the main aspects of me that people could tell I was Filipino from.

Fareea: Yeah.

Stacey: So like, even as a little kid, like, I liked how like dark I was, but like, just so like beauty standards too that like my mom gave it to me like at a pretty young age and she was like, you need to use this because like, you're getting dark and you need to use this like on your armpits especially. So I was like, well, I'm 10.

I don't, I don't know like any of this means, and I don't really [00:07:00] care for it right now. Mm-hmm. So it just like, I don't know, but it was like a big thing go for me going back because like, I mean, I don't, I didn't grow up in the Philippines. I'm not like as tan. So like a lot of people and like the way I dressed too wasn't like. Filipino, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. So like, or like modern Filipino, I don't know. But um,

Tarchithaa: Even if it's like western clothing, that's almost like assertive way to dress.

Stacey: Exactly.

Tarchithaa: I feel like if you've been away far enough, you have no idea what that is. Like, you come back and you're just like, well, I haven't been back in five years.

Stacey: Exactly.

Tarchithaa: I don't know what the trend is now.

Stacey: Yeah. Because I wanna know what the Filipino, like clothing trends are. Like I know the traditional clothing, but I don't know what the modern ones are. Yeah. So it's like, I went back and like, it was so funny 'cause everyone, like, people from my family, people from outside my family.

There was like, this one time I was like on a ferry and like the ferry man came up to me and asked me this. They're all like, are you Korean? And I'm like, what is that supposed to mean? And like sometimes like my aunt, I love my aunt, but my aunt would have to speak up for me and be like, no, she's Filipino, she's just [00:08:00] American.

And I'm just like, well. What is the link between that and Korean? Yeah. Like, I don't get it because it's not even like my language sounds Korean. Yeah. And I, I would say like,

Tarchithaa: Wait, so you've gotten this multiple times? Like Korean specifically?

Stacey: I've gotten this multiple times. Just Korean. It's really weird because I would, I wouldn't look at myself and be like, I'm Korean, you know?

Yeah. Like, I wouldn't say I'm Korean passing at all. Yeah. 'cause they're very like Korean, like beauty standards and like Korean culture is like huge in the Philippines now. They're like big into K-pop and everything. It's like the whole, like if you're like, they call it "chimita" but like, if you're like "chimita" which means you have like more East Asian features, yeah.

Tarchithaa: I remember like being in middle school in America and when K-pop was blowing up here. To me it was like round two. 'cause I remember being in elementary school, like at that time it was girls' generation and , I remember like, sitting down and listening to K-Pop. Mm-hmm. And I, I like K-pop, like they're killing it. Mm-hmm. But I also know that one of the biggest reasons why they're so successful in, specifically in Southeast [00:09:00] Asian countries is because of colorism.

Stacey: Yeah. Yeah. that's how I felt like the last time I went back to the Philippines. 'cause it's like you see the billboards everywhere and the like social mobility thing. 'cause it's like, it's really common for like old white American men to like come to the Philippines and like try to like get a bride or whatever. It's like, like 10 times as bad as it used to be because, I don't know. I don't even know why because it's just like, like I remember going around SM which is like the major mall in the Philippines. Um, and like I like, I was just like shocked 'cause there's just so many white men like just walking around. I've never seen that many white men that...

Fareea: I think like

Tarchithaa: That's crazy.

Fareea: Tourism is also like. Interesting. Right?

Stacey: No. Yeah.

Fareea: 'cause um, I haven't been to Guyana in a while.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: Last time I went I think I was like 13, so.

Tarchithaa: Wow.

Fareea: Pretty long time.

Tarchithaa: That's crazy.

Fareea: Yeah. Pretty a long time. But like, the family will show me pictures of Guyana now, or like, tell me [00:10:00] about Guyana and it's just so different. Like, even from like, I can, I can only imagine how it is for my parents because, um, like my mom hasn't been back.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: I think close to since when she immigrated. So, yeah. And there are like big malls and like hotels and like Starbucks.

Stacey: Oh.

Fareea: You can tell what has been kind of made into a tourist spot.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: It's very obvious.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: Yeah.

Stacey: I feel the same way. The Philippines, I think like, I got lucky 'cause the Philippines is so split up into different islands, but so like, there's some places like almost haven't been touched by like, tourism or like the west, not the west. 'cause it's colonized. Mm-hmm. But like, or just like Americans.

Tarchithaa: Like modern americans.

Stacey: Modern Americans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, there's some other places, like there's this island called Siargao.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: [00:11:00] Um, I've never gone, I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it correctly, but, um, I remember like seeing like tiktoks and stuff of it, and it was like one, like, it was this Filipino couple going to Siargao, but like the entire plane was like white Americans. And it was just like, it was like whole like white American, like families and like couples. It wasn't even like old white men with their like. Filipino like girlfriends or like Filipino wives. He's just like, what are you doing here?

Like, go back to Manila. I don't even know what's in Siargao. But like, I don't know, it is like weird. I think I'm just like lucky 'cause Iloilo, well Iloilo is trying to industrialize, so it's like, do you see like the big malls and everything? Um, and like people do still see it as like a province, even though it is technically a city.

Mm-hmm. So it's like, it hasn't been as badly touched by like modern Americans yet. But like the SM is like super big and like there is like a Starbucks in some places. But I would say for the most part it does seem like [00:12:00] mostly familiar. It's just the demographics of like, who's visiting. That's like a little bit weird to me.

Tarchithaa: I mean, I feel like in Malaysia whatever used to be like the trading ports a lot of tourists go too. Like, I was born in Penang, and Penang is also like, we have mainland like literally our state flag is a palm tree.

 I didn't grow up in Penang much but like, I remember my mom being like, um, the beaches where she would be able to go and swim and stuff like that.

Stacey: Oh yeah.

Tarchithaa: And now, a lot of them are like privatized now for tourists, which I'm like, dang, that's kind of crazy.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: Just the fact that like the people don't even have access to this. But like speaking of like white people going to like, I guess touristy places, like do you ever see, like you ever see people like go to places and it's like a lot of the times the people that actually live there in those cities are just like, yo, like y'all literally show up here and trash everything and then just leave.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: I just feel like there's a sense of like entitlement, I feel like [00:13:00] with a lot of tourists, it always comes back to like some, some post or some TikTok I'll see like these tiktoks with people like visiting like, um, Saudi or something like that.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: And they'll be like, oh, well you have to dress modestly, but I don't want to. So like, like there's like that kind of like sense of entitlement.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: Or like, they feel as though they deserve to be accommodated.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: Or they almost like always frame it in a way that like, cultural norms are like oppressive.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Stacey: I see this a lot with like Japan too. 'cause there's a lot of like spiritual traditions that like, people just like, disregard for like photo ops.

Fareea: Oh.

Stacey: It's like, Hmm.

Fareea: Yeah. A lot of people take photos that are kind of distasteful or like,

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: Disrespectful, kind of using cultural or like religious, structures as their own like little photo shoot area.

Stacey: Because I remember [00:14:00] I, there was on the news recently that like Japan had to ban tourism in the Geisha district. 'cause people kept taking photos with the geisha, like, without their like consent.

Tarchithaa: That's a safety, like

Stacey: That's a safety hazard.

Fareea: That too. I feel like people go to other countries and they think that like, the people are like part of the attraction, which is very strange, very weird.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: Too strange. Yeah.

Fareea: Like I feel like that's the thing too, like people see people who are different from them and think that it's like a spectacle.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. I feel like the idea of being seen as a spectacle by someone who's outside your culture, it's frustrating. 'cause I've had experiences where people will go to India and like, they come back and then like, they start treating me different and I'm like, like I am Tamil. Like, yes. But I've also never been to India.

Like they'll start telling me stuff and looping in what you're saying about the whole oppressive thing. And so they'll start telling me and being like, oh, you know, like we were [00:15:00] expected to do these things. Or like Queer people are like treated this way or whatever. And I'm just like, why are you acting like you didn't know this before you went there. Like, why are you going there? And then you're coming back like it's giving, it's, it's very white savior esque.

Especially when they like tell me? Go to your other friends who have similar demographic background as you who would relate to you in the savior complex and let them know. 'cause when you tell me it's disrespectful.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: It's always disrespectful. But at least have the decency to not, to not find another brown person and be like, I think y'all are so backward thinking of whatever. Like they don't even think like X, Y, and Z. And it's like, I mean, it's a dangerous rhetoric. Like that sort of rhetoric, ends up making people expect you to be the spokesperson, for wherever you're from.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And also like always hold like your community accountable where it's just like, you're not in my community and you don't know what it entails to like, hold whatever my community is [00:16:00] accountable.

This pops up on Twitter every now and then. It's like some white gay person being like, top 10 countries I can't travel to 'cause I'm gay ... it feels disrespectful. I feel like if someone like that heard me say it, they're gonna be like, it's disrespectful that this other country doesn't accept me, okay, but the country you're in, like somewhat accepts you right now.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: And also, a lot of the times you look at the countries that quote unquote don't accept you, and it's like, hmm, maybe they had historical records around queer people that have been erased because of colonialism. They want people that have been wronged by colonialism to be held accountable like by immigrants so that they can go there and be safe.

And I'm like, I'm not safe there and I'm not safe here either. To me at least, like I feel like it, it connects so deeply, to the queer experience for me. 'cause it's like, technically if I go home, things have not been decriminalized even so like we, we aren't even at civil rights yet but at the same time, when someone who's not from that community, not from that space, like wants you to hold your people accountable.

Stacey: [00:17:00] Yeah. I feel like it's also just like, 'cause okay, this is kind of really kind of like, not related, but I was talking to my friend about this recently 'cause like we're both like. Um, we're both like born here, but like our parents immigrated over and we're both queer. Yeah. So we were like talking about this like whole thing, but it's like, like sociology 1 0 1, but like, I don't know, I don't remember who coined this term, but it was like the, like oppression race.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

Tarchithaa: Oppression Olympics?

Fareea: Oppresion Olympics.

Stacey: Yeah. Oppression Olympics. Yeah. Or it's like white or even just like upper class people will like try to like lean into whatever aspect of themselves that they're oppressed in and try to use that to match with people of color, like queer people of color, like queer immigrants, stuff like that.

 You have to deal with that so often as a kid of immigrants or as like someone who like doesn't look like blonde hair, blue eyes, you know? I've dealt with so many people trying to tell me like that the way I look at certain things because I'm Filipino is like [00:18:00] wrong, and I'm like, you're not even Filipino.

 You got like a, like conflicting opinion from like, people on Twitter. But like, there was one person arguing with me about the use of the term Filipinx, because that's like a pretty complicated discourse in the Filipino community.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Stacey: Just because, it's like an offshoot of Latinx and it's a term used for like, gender neutral Filipinos. But also at the same time, another argument against it is that it's imposing western gender standards on a gender neutral language. 'cause the Philippines before colonialism, it's been very gender neutral. It's been very like accepting, um, stuff like that.

So I feel like just my own personal opinion, if it's something that like the Philippines has tried very hard and it's one of the only aspects it's kept from, its pre-colonial like history. Why should we impose western gender standards on this language? For me personally, I wouldn't judge anyone who uses the term FilipinX. Because it's also like a sentiment echoed by like people in like the [00:19:00] mainland as well. I would accept anyone who like says to me like they identify with FilipinX 'cause it's just like you're entitled to like how you feel about it. I'm entitled to how I feel about it, but you're actively trying to change the way how I feel about it.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Stacey: Then that's a little, and you're trying to be like, oh, 'cause the Philippines is so like repressive, I guess like queer people and stuff. I'm like, well, I'm not responsible for that. Like !?

Tarchithaa: I've literally taken queer theories classes where this has been brought up. Specifically in languages where binaries are super, like strict, like, um, like I think in Arabic, like that's a language where they don't have gender neutral stuff.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: And so like,I think it's something people should talk about more.

Stacey: Yeah. But then people will be like, that one person was like, oh, like I get your opinion, but I'm not gonna believe you because my mutuals on Twitter told me otherwise. I mean, like, your mutuals on Twitter probably aren't even Filipino. Like, what are you talking about?

Like?

Fareea: But I feel like there's such a difference

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: It like reminds me of how. Me and my friend, were [00:20:00] talking about how people need to like, normalize saying I instead of like, we.

Tarchithaa: Who's we? Who's we? Start saying who we is!

Fareea: Because like there is such a difference in being like, okay, I use FilipinX because that's what's comfortable for me. Or like for example . Someone saying that is a lot different from saying, you have to use this term or you have to like,

Stacey: We need to accept FilipinX, no I dont.

Fareea: We as a whole need to start changing our language. Like, there, I feel like there, there are ways to accommodate people and be respectful.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: Without making it like, I don't like.

Stacey: Like about like the entire like population.

Fareea: Yeah. Like about the entire population. Yeah. Or like a really, I guess like authority kind of thing. Like me and everyone, we all need to use this one term because it's like a [00:21:00] moral hierarchy kind of thing.

Yeah. If that makes sense.

Stacey: Like why can you speak for what I need to do?

Tarchithaa: This class that I took, it was a trans rights class, but it came up and this Arab person in the class who was doing their final paper on like- they spoke Arabic and like, um, essentially she just wanted to assess like the gender neutral stuff and was just doing her research and spoke to people.

And what had come up was exactly what you're talking about, half the people were like "yeah, I feel like if gender neutral language was more normalized, like then I could come out to my parents," it would be more normal sort of thing. Um, but the other half of people were like, they weren't disagreeing with that. They were just like, yes, we totally should have more gender neutral language. But they were saying how like, yeah, I feel like it, there's this thing that's happening on the internet that makes it seem like there's only one way to go about it.

 It's interesting. I'm sure this discourse has existed, but it's always weird to see how this plays out on social media, specifically Twitter.

Stacey: Twitter.

Tarchithaa: Because Twitter is just so like, like tunnel hole vision [00:22:00] sometimes. Like you were saying, sometimes people that are so much on Twitter, it's like, you need to go talk to people in real life because real life experiences are so much more, I'm not saying you can't find a safe space online, but the amount of people that are on the app versus amount of people that actually post stuff- it's drastic.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: So like what you're seeing isn't even like

Fareea: Representative,

Tarchithaa: Representative of like 99% of whoever is using it. A very low number of accounts on whatever social media is are actually posting. Yeah. And actually like doing stuff, most of the people are lurking. Yeah. Like they're just perceiving. Mm-hmm. And so it's like, just because you are the only one engaged in this discourse does not mean that this is what everyone's opinion is.

Yeah. And especially, it's like restrictive when it comes to like queer identities and like anything regarding like queerness, because it's like why I feel like straight people and cis people already do that. Like, they already try to put people in boxes and they already try to impose these labels upon us.

Stacey: It's like oppression [00:23:00] Olympics again, just for like, who's more like oppressed, who has more of the right to like, speak

Fareea: I feel like at least in terms of like social media and like on the internet, and it kind of like ties into like the white savior thing.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: Like I feel like someone, like one person will make a statement that sounds like morally correct or , it sounds like morally better or , it sounds like it could be politically correct and everyone will run with it.

Like everyone will be like, yes, this is the thing. This is like the one thing, this is like the best thing.

Stacey: This is modern philosophy.

Fareea: Yes. Yes. And. I don't know. A lot of the times it comes from like higher social economic status people.

Tarchithaa: Like I feel like even in like the Tamil diaspora, even like Malaysian diaspora, people even in my position, right? It's like we think that because you're in a country that's not your home country, like you know more. You're not living in your home country. I can be like, I think this is what queer life looks like in Malaysia, but I'm not living there at the moment. So like everything I know is from like what I'm seeing on social [00:24:00] media, like grassroots stuff. And also like when I do research for like papers or whatever, but I'm not having the lived experience.

And I feel like even when we have this discussion, sometimes, like I feel like sometimes when we have queer discussions, like diaspora ends up taking up a lot of space because we live in the western world.

Stacey: Hmm.

Tarchithaa: And like. It's kind of disheartening , for me to even see like sometimes queer people in the West immediately assume things about people from home or like what the community from home would do and like being like, oh, I'll probably know better because I've studied women and gender sexualities in school or whatever. And I'm not saying like, you don't know more theory, like yes, you probably do, but also where's most of this theory coming from?

Fareea: And there's, there's a gap between theory and lived experience.

Tarchithaa: Exactly. Like.

Fareea: Kind of like what this project is about.

Tarchithaa: True.

Fareea: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: You talk about discourse and who takes up space it's like everyone has their own standing obviously of privilege. And even in the fact that like all of us in this room, live in this country, [00:25:00] generally, like they're more likely to be like, oh, you already know these things and like, not assume that you don't know what you're talking about.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: Versus somebody who's an international student. I've literally seen this happen in real time. I've been in spaces, like club meetings or whatever, and it's like there's someone there who is also South Asian, they're international students, and it's like people will straight up assume that this person is like not queer or doesn't know what they're talking about.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: Like when you talk about other things, you guys take her seriously. But then when it came to queer stuff, they didn't even assume that she had the right to be there.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And that was crazy to me. I was like, what? But it's, it happens like all the time. Those are the moments where I'm kind of just like, oh, I do have a lot of privilege. Having been in America for like almost 10 years now, like I have gained privilege compared to like when I first moved here. I think being aware of that is like crucial for discourse as well.

 I feel like most queer people of color like, they're more, sometimes more likely to listen. But that's maybe my personal experience. Like when I talk to friends who are like Asian and queer, like they have been more likely to listen to me versus like, I talk to a white queer friend, it just ends up being like, well, [00:26:00] I'm more queer than you, sort of thing.

But, but then whenever it goes to that point, like I usually just exit the conversation 'cause I'm like, you're not even listening anymore. You're just trying to play oppression Olympics.

Stacey: I agree. It's just like a feeling of like superiority. 'cause I've met, like, I've met like white, like queer people who have tried so hard to like put themselves into like any kind of like I'm a person of color box. I knew someone who like spicy white people. Spicy white, insane. Literally I knew someone who was like, she was half Italian, half. I think half like Greek or something.

Fareea: People don't understand that like race is very social. Like race is fake. Like it's entirely about like your social standing and your social view.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: And it's like,

Tarchithaa: mm-hmm.

Fareea: It's very clear that like no one you don't understand is viewing you as like, no one is, is actively oppressing you for being Italian.

Tarchithaa: I think anyone who's white, who wants to be perceived as POC, I feel like they wanna put themselves in that box because they don't want [00:27:00] people to think that they're uncultured.

Stacey: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: Which is like, you can totally be cultured. You can have your cultural food and have your traditions and like, still not be oppressed for it is in this current day. The biggest argument I hear about Italian Americans at least, it's like, um, 1800's, like when Catholics first came to this country, right?

 Like US history, there was this political cartoon that was like the crocodile wearing like a Catholic, and it was like Irish people too. I think it was Catholic, like Italian and then Irish people came, uh, vice versa, something like that.

So it's like there is a history in America. I understand this history existed and like, okay, here's the point that I'm trying to make. You can be proud of your culture and also be white. It'll be a problem if you are proud of the fact that you were white. I think because of that too, people are just like, they don't wanna be seen as white. Maybe because they're like, I'm proud of my culture, but I'm not proud of being white.

And so then they're like, then I'm a POC. And it's like, no. Like you can just be like, I'm proud of my culture and leave it at that. Like,

Stacey: Yeah. Or like maybe, 'cause it's like the sense I get from like some of the people I [00:28:00] know, like that is like, I'm not special enough to like be in this community because like, I'm not like a person of color.

Fareea: It really comes from like a lack of understanding of the oppression because like I don't know why you would want the micro aggressions times two.

Tarchithaa: Why would you want that? Like, that's what I, that's what I don't understand I truly think sometimes people think it's a game, like people think and I'm like, I am not lying.

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: I think like out of oppression comes a survival that is, that is so like intricate. It's strength. You know? Like I, and I know that. But it's like you want all the good things, and the benefit of having cultural whatever without any of the struggle.

Stacey: My friend and I like stayed up until 6:00 AM just like talking about oppression Olympics and stuff. 'cause we know so many people 'cause it's like we went to high school in Staton Island, which as I've mentioned before was like pretty like not a person of color, like friendly. And it's like so many people that are just playing oppression Olympics. 'cause so many are coming [00:29:00] from Brooklyn. So it's just like, oh look, I'm better than you guys because I'm just like queer and from Park Slope and just like, no, you're not. You can afford like a $6 million brown house. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Tarchithaa: In conclusion, I think oppression Olympics are an insane thing-

Stacey: Uhhuh.

Tarchithaa: That people do.

Stacey: Yeah. I think like, like it's definitely like harmful, especially to like people, like definitely to people of color. Yeah. 'cause like, it's really harmful, especially when it's like, I don't know, especially when you're one of those people, like when you're in that position where you don't really feel as, when you're a little bit like ashamed of like, the fact that you're not as like close to that culture. Like, um, like say you're like, and like your parents immigrated here and you were born here, stuff like that.

Yeah. Like, I think it's so harmful. 'cause it's like, like, why would you assume you could tell me all these things? Like, hold me accountable. I wasn't born there. I don't feel like connected to that culture and I wish I could. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] But it's like, obviously I'm not in that position, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And it's like, it's harmful to everyone, but it's just like, from that experience, just like in like personally, it's just like, it just feels like collective allocation to like myself as like the representative of a culture I'm not close to. Yeah. And it's also just like, I don't know, like I don't even know like that much about my culture, like in this aspect 'cause there's like so little written on it. Yeah. Like why? Like why would you assume that you know more than I do? You know?

Tarchithaa: No, that's good. Why would you assume you know more than I do?

Stacey: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: About my culture.

Fareea: Right.

Tarchithaa: Crazy, and queer people in my culture period. I feel like that's a good point to leave it at that. Let's leave people to ponder on that.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: That's our time for, for today.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Fareea: We had like a really good discussion.

Stacey: Yeah.

Fareea: Thank you so much, Stacey.

Tarchithaa: Is there anything that you would like people to, um, like follow you on, like, do you wanna plug yourself for anything?

Stacey: Um, um, I don't have any [00:31:00] projects going on, but my Instagram is @steakyyy_ um, if you can gimme a follow there, that'd be great. Um, there's no reason I just like followers.

Tarchithaa: Great. We'll put it, we'll put it in the bio, the little description there.

Stacey: Yeah. But that's about me. Um, stay safe. Stay happy, stay cool. Don't oppress other people.

Tarchithaa: Yeah, don't do that.

Stacey: In the Olympics. You're not getting an award for this. Yeah.

Tarchithaa: Cool. Thank you. Thank you for being here with us today.