From the South to NYC: Defining Queer Spirituality on Your Own Terms 

Season 1, Episode 4

In this episode, Kennedy (she/her) walks Fareea and Tarchithaa through the fundamental experiences that shaped her queer identity. Discovering queer spaces in the southern suburbs allowed her to dismantle preconceptions of gender roles. Yet as they were still predominantly white, she moved to New York City seeking a more diverse and familiar environment. Together, the three of them explore how cultural and queer coexistence is assumed to be paradoxical and the history of spiritual and religious practices as tools for understanding one’s queerness and surviving oppression.

Check out Kennedy’s Instagram here: @kennedy_jtr1.

Find us on Instagram : @theeqilproject.

This season of The EQIL Pod is sponsored by the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation.

Full Episode Transcript

Fareea: Welcome to the EQIL Podcast if you're new here. That stands for Empowering Queer Immigrant Lives. The EQIL Podcast is hosted by Fareea. That's me. My pronouns are he, him and...

Tarchithaa: Tarchithaa. I go by she/ her pronouns.

Fareea: Today we have Kennedy as a guest, would you like to introduce yourself?

Kennedy: Hi, I am Kennedy Jeter, um, senior physics major here at Fordham, uh, black and Dominican, and identify as lesbian. Oh, pronouns. She, her.

Tarchithaa: Kennedy, thanks for being here with us today. How do you feel like the experience of immigration has affected you growing up and also in your queer identity?

Kennedy: Okay. Um, because there's just a lot that I could [00:01:00] say. Um, so first my mom immigrated from D.R. when she was 12, with her entire family, my grandparents, all of her siblings, and then also her extended family. So like her aunts and uncles, like hella people just came to New York all at once. It's crazy.

Tarchithaa: Everyone at once.

Kennedy: All the Dominicans at once. Um, and so like for her, I know switching countries was very, is dysphoric the word? Yeah, I think that's the word. Um, but like, the transition in culture and like learning what it means to be an American 'cause she came at like a transitional age. That is when you're starting puberty, that's when in America you would be like in middle school and stuff like that.

So she's also learning how to be herself while you have this kind of split in cultural identity because um, she is Dominican but she came at such a young age that she can also identify with being American. So I feel like that just impacted her [00:02:00] identity and a lot of the things that she learned and grew up with, specifically connected towards LGBTQ because gender norms and sexuality are very different depending on which country you come from.

And in the Dominican Republic, it is a lot more conservative towards sexuality and gender norms. It is way more sexist, I'd say, than America. So like growing up her parents just raised her to be very conservative and to strictly adhere to gender norms.

And she grew up with all of these ideas and notions in D.R. but then comes to America and then comes to New York City specifically and it's just way more of a free place. And like, she experiences gay people for the first time. Gay people obviously exist in D.R. but they're not open with it. Like they're most definitely hiding that. And so, she experiences people being openly gay and I feel like it was like she experienced a lot of homophobia in herself, but homophobia in like literally the phobia sense, like straight fear, like what is that? What is going [00:03:00] on? What is happening right now?

Um, and her siblings went through the same thing too. She tells me stories about how my uncle was extremely homophobic. Um, is he older than her? I think, no, he's younger than her. Um, which is interesting 'cause I would think, I would think older, like you would, you know, you're more grounded in your conservative beliefs, but yeah.

Also because he's a male and like the gender norms are so strongly in place in my family. Like even though you are younger, you are considered the head of the household, even though you've got three sisters that are older than you that are doing more than you.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Kennedy: Anyways. Um, but yeah, he was extremely homophobic growing up. My mom is in general way more of an open person than the rest of my family and is just the type of person that likes to learn.

Like, she loves knowledge. Initially she did have that phobia of just like, what is going on? I've never experienced this. And wanting to stay away from that and just be in her own culture and stuff. But when she went to college she, she didn't have a problem, [00:04:00] like she says, experimenting, but not experimenting with her own sexuality, experimenting with like having gay friends and being in a gay community, which like, I know that mess sounds crazy. Like the fact that you think experimenting is letting gay people into your circle is crazy to me. But like when she tells me the stories, I understand more. Especially knowing my family and the beliefs that they instilled upon her and raised her with like, that was just a big thing for her.

And it's really getting over like the beliefs and norms that you have in your own head and realizing, oh, these are normal regular people. And so I feel like she is a lot more open, which helped me with my own sexuality when I was coming in terms with it and being raised. But she still does hold a lot of those strong like very specific gender norm ideas. And she did, I feel like, instilled that upon us, which I feel affected a lot of my sexuality and coming to terms with it. 'cause like I knew I liked women [00:05:00] by my freshman year of high school, I had suspicions in middle school. Um, low key, like should have known from a young, like elementary school, because my first crushes were always women. It was never a man. Like, that is never the thing that I was attracted to.

Um, but like I do feel like a lot of her, like phobia did rub off on me and affected how I viewed myself and the notion that I could even like women or be gay. 'cause I remember in fifth grade there was one girl that didn't identify as gay, but you know how there's like rumors and everybody's like, oh, she's lesbian.

Oh, she likes girls. And I was like, I was confused and that confusion turned to fear. I was just like, I don't think I can be friends with her anymore because I don't think I'm allowed to. Like I took on those beliefs that like even my mom had like the belief that like, oh, you find out your friend is lesbian, you automatically think they have a crush on you and that they like you.

And it's like, no, no, shawty, they like women in general. It's not about you. But yeah, I feel like I took on [00:06:00] that belief and I was like, oh, I can't be friends with her anymore 'cause she probably has a crush on me and I don't have a crush on her. I didn't actually distance that friendship a lot, but I still had those beliefs in my head.

And, even though I think my first crush was a woman in like third grade, I didn't like actually connect to that. I was just like, well, I really like her personality. Like I really like being friends with you.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Kennedy: And then in middle school, I I had a transformation both in the place that I lived in and in myself.

So like I grew up in a predominantly Black and Hispanic part of my county in Woodbridge, Virginia. And then moved to a predominantly rich and white part, right in the beginning of middle school. And so throughout middle school, most of my friends are white. Um, there's not a lot of like black or Hispanic people in my school.

And so I'm friends with them. And you know how like going through middle school, everybody has their crushes and they're all asking you, they're like, oh, who do you have a crush on? Who do you have a crush on? And my answer was always...

Tarchithaa: You gotta come up with an answer quick.

Kennedy: Literally my answer was always no one. They're like, oh, you don't have to hide it from us. And I'm like, no, no one, like [00:07:00] truly. And like that's what made me question in middle school, whether I liked women or not, was literally just because I never had a crush on anyone. But in high school I connected to the fact that I think that's just 'cause I was only surrounded by white people.

And like, it's like. I'm just not as attracted to white people as I am to POCs and like, I didn't really know that fully, but I was like, yeah, I probably like women because like why don't I, why don't I like any men? Like why, why don't I have a crush? And like my friend has like 15 crushes.

Tarchithaa: Where is my crush on Jared? Where's my crush on Chad?

Kennedy: Literally, it's Jerry and Chad. I'm telling you, that was actually their names. Like they were obsessed with Jared. But like there would always be those people, like the popular guy that everybody has a crush on and like you are thinking, oh, I'm supposed to like this person.

And I'm like, I don't. And I'm like, maybe that means I'm gay.

Tarchithaa: I feel like the popular people that you're supposed to like, or whatever, like a lot of times they really strongly emulate gender roles too. For me, in my high school at least, or middle school was always like white guys who did basketball and soccer specifically and like [00:08:00] lacrosse or something like that.

Kennedy: Yeah, it was soccer in my school was crazy.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. It was like, if they would be like triathletes, so they would do soccer and then basketball in the winter.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And then like, I think it's lacrosse in the spring or something like that. But it was a really particular archetype that was always recognized as the popular guy. It was some guy that was like a triathlete and often like white. And if you're a person of color you can fit everything else but you still would never be the same as like Jared or Timmy.

Kennedy: Yeah, exactly.

Tarchithaa: So I think it's it's really interesting 'cause even like being like, oh these are the people you like to like sort of fit in. It's like those people are even at such a young age are like, oh, like you do manly things and like

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And like you don't care about music and like you don't do theater.

Kennedy: Exactly.

Tarchithaa: Kind of thing which is interesting.

Kennedy: And in my school, like they were all a part of the choir, but it was because you were deemed to not care about music if you joined the choir.

Tarchithaa: I see what you're saying with the choir 'cause in my middle school specifically, like everyone had to take a music elective.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And so like, you either took band, orchestra or choir. And like band and orchestra like [00:09:00] you needed to learn how to play an instrument.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: So like. The people who did choir were the ones that were gonna do choir in eighth grade and they were never gonna return to music ever again. And were always rambunctious. So like

Kennedy: Yes! Always rambunctious, my God, this like archetype of like growing up. Because they actually were all rambunctious. Like now that you're saying it.

Tarchithaa: I was friends with them when I was in middle school 'cause I have a really low voice. So I went to all county and I was a tenor and I would be only woman tenor and stuff like that.

Fareea: But that reminds me of a very specific instance from like music class in middle school, I think because they, they did not like audition our vocal ranges or something like that.

Kennedy: They just let you in.

Fareea: It wasn't even like real choir. It was like

Tarchithaa: an elective you had to take it.

Fareea: Yeah, it was like an elective and they were literally just like, okay, all the girls on this side and you are going to sing soprano. And I was like, I can't do [00:10:00] that. Like I physically cannot do that.

Tarchithaa: That's kind of insane.

Kennedy: That is insane.

Tarchithaa: And not even checking for vocal ranges. Not even like

Fareea: I should have known because in every single music class we had, I would always sing when like the boys were singing. I would refuse to sing with the girls. I would be like, that is not me.

Tarchithaa: Because you knew who you were.

Kennedy: Yes. From a young age.

Fareea: Yeah. But it was so crazy. They were just like girls and boys and you sing the high part and you sing the low part

Tarchithaa: it's really interesting. Like I always had like musical knowledge and so when I entered, I also never had any shame about the fact that I had a lower voice. That's how I became friends with those other kids, when I was in middle school, because we didn't have a tenor in middle school, but we had an alto. It was like alto, soprano one, soprano two.

And most of them never came back to chorus afterwards. Yeah. Like 'cause why would they, but that's crazy.

Kennedy: Yeah. Because they weren't like really into music like that. Yeah. And it was like, chorus from my school was just like the cop out because like you can just stand in the back and mouth [00:11:00] words. Like they would just talk about how they wouldn't actually sing, they would just mouth the words and let everybody else handle it.

But, um, damn. So off topic.

Tarchithaa: Oh, I mean, kind of, not really. Yeah, it's still gender roles in chorus.

Kennedy: We did get into gender roles. That's, it's just crazy how it, like,

Tarchithaa: It's everywhere.

Kennedy: It's everywhere in every part of your life and it just really becomes subconscious at a certain point. Um, but yeah, like the racial aspect of relationships and stuff like that did affect me because my entire life, I didn't necessarily think that I was gay or that I liked women, but I just thought, okay, something has to be different about me because I'm just not going through the same things that everybody around me is going through. But I had like, no, no actual evidence in my mind at the time.

But then I go to high school right? My freshman year of high school. And high school's, bigger than middle school, so there's just more POCs. So like I'm actually seeing people I'm attracted to and I'm like, oh, okay, okay, no worries. I think I'm attracted to men. Like

Tarchithaa: Why am I feeling things right now?

Kennedy: Literally, I'm like, oh no, you're not. I don't even know. [00:12:00] Like, you just think something is wrong with you. You're like, damn, okay, I'm not broken. Um, I'm having attractions that I think I'm supposed to be, and I am thinking that I'm attracted to men. Like I'm looking at a man and I'm like, okay, you're not, you're not repulsive.

I'm not regurgitating at the sight of you. So maybe this,

Tarchithaa: I must like you!

Kennedy: This is what, this is what love is, right? Like this is what attraction is. But I have my first woman crush and whoa whoa. Oh my God. Which like, I, um, I guess I'm kind of jumping this way right now, but I didn't identify as lesbian until like last semester, which kind of crazy to me. Last semester of my senior year. I knew that I liked women freshman year of high school, but I didn't connect to the difference that I would feel when I'm attracted to a woman versus a man until very recently. Um, and so, I know that I like women and I become kind of very hyper fixated on women actually because of having an immigrant mother and so like.

My high school, right? Like everybody's having crushes and it's normal for white kids' parents to just let them [00:13:00] date. But in my household, I'm like ain't no way in hell, my mom's letting me home with a man. Like what? I'm not even allowed to look at a man like at all.

 She catches me thinking about a man, I could be thinking about a celebrity. She's like, you better stop trying to have sex. I know you're trying to get pregnant. Like...

Fareea: It's so real.

Kennedy: No, like, and white people didn't understand that and like, because I'm surrounded by so many white people, that was actually such a huge struggle I used to go through because everybody's having their boyfriends and their crushes and I'm like, I cannot do that.

Tarchithaa: Even feeling romantic feelings feels like a sin because this is like, my parents didn't come here to this country for me to...

Kennedy: Literally like she just, and it's, for my mom, we've gotten closer and like talked through all the trauma of high school and middle school.

 But like a lot of it is just ideals and values that my family instilled upon her and truly just the fear that I'm gonna get pregnant. I have no idea in the immigrant parents' mind, that is the greatest fear in the world. You're gonna throw away your entire life. Some man is gonna get you pregnant and you're never gonna be the same again.

Um, little did we know. That was never really a fear for me. Um, but yeah, so [00:14:00] like, I'm just like, I can't date in the same way, but then the minute I realize I'm attracted to women, I'm like, loophole. I can, I can. She's never gonna question a woman. Like, I can have a sleepover with a woman. I can do whatever I want.

I'm like, oh my god guys, I can actually date like crazy.

Tarchithaa: I had the same thought process. Like late high school when I was like about to leave for college. I was just like, I'm chilling. I'm cooling it. I was like, I can do whatever I want. Yeah. Yeah. Which is funny because I was just like, they're not gonna say anything about this because they're not gonna know.

Kennedy: Exactly that. And, I would tell my friends that because a lot of my friends thought I was lesbian because okay, this is kind of, I don't know if this is a tangent, but my school, so, because I'm from the south, um, and I did move to the predominantly rich and white part of the county. My school was very interesting. It was segregated in so many different ways. So like there's a bunch of just rich, right, conservative, like, it's so interesting the different like diasporas that existed, but there's the rich, white [00:15:00] conservative man that literally dressed so preppy and like, oh, there's so much I could say about them. But like there was them and then there was like the racist, white man, but like hillbilly aesthetic, like it's country. They're not rich, they're poor. They live in the same trailer park as the Hispanic people that they are racist to. Crazy. Um. Extremely racist, but like, you know, open in the racism compared to the like right wing conservative rich man that like isn't open in his racism but you know, is racist.

And then there's like the black and Hispanic kids in the school that literally are all friends with each other. My school's also a performing art school. Like it has that aspect of the program. And because of that, there's also like a huge gay part, but there's some intersectionality between the hillbilly conservatives and the like gay performance kid. I went through an emo phase right in middle school. So for some reason I fit perfectly within that margin. So like I am, I'm not friends with all the black and Hispanic kids at this point. I'm in between the like, racist hillbillies and the gay people in the [00:16:00] school.

These are all of my friends right now and they're also realizing that they're gay at the same time, but they're emo and country and racist. And I didn't know that until like the end of this year, but I just exist in a really weird space at this moment. But it's very gay space, so it's really open. And so like, this is where I learned, I feel like everything about, not everything about being gay, but like this is where I was allowed to be.

Tarchithaa: Introduction. Yeah.

Kennedy: Yeah. I was allowed to be like openly gay in that space where, versus home, my mom doesn't talk about relationships because like we said earlier, it's something that's demonized, but it's assumed that you're gonna get a husband.

Like it's just assumed that you're straight. And there's no conversation or discussion of that. At home, I don't think deeply about my sexuality, but when I go to school and I'm in this like really gay space, I'm thinking deeply about my sexuality. I identified as pansexual at that time, but all of them in the group like saw me as lesbian because, I just told them, I was like, yeah, I'm not looking for a boyfriend because I'm not gonna be able to have that. That's just not a possibility for me. But I'm like, I can have a girlfriend. Like I can.

Tarchithaa: The loophole is crazy.

Kennedy: The loophole is beautiful. I'm like, yo, I can have a sleepover with the [00:17:00] girl. I can, like, I can do whatever I want. And my mom is not gonna question it at all. Like, I could literally marry her, fake marry her. My mom would not think anything. They're like, oh, they're just really close friends. They're just really close friends and stuff. I'm existing in that kind of world and I feel like what really had me not connect to the fact that I was lesbian because like crazy, I used to like say, I'm like, oh, I'm probably like Kehlani and like I think I'm bi right now, or I think I'm pan right now and I'm gonna identify as lesbian in a couple years.

And that was facts.

Tarchithaa: That was facts.

Kennedy: And I was like, the fact that I used to say that to myself jokingly and never actually connected until, like, senior year of college is crazy. But the reason I didn't connect with that was so much because of the way that my mother raised me and her ideals on, um, gender and sexuality. So it's like she just not heavily imposed, but just like, it's very normalized that men are like this and do this thing and women are like this and do this thing. And I think because I'm a feminine woman, that that means I can't be lesbian. [00:18:00] Like I think that, I literally have to be attracted to men because that's how the world works.

Like I'm thinking that oh, I, I like women, but I also only thought I liked masculine women. Like I didn't think I liked feminine women at all because I was like, that's not possible. Like masculine and feminine have to go together. In my mind, I'm able to finally break down the ideal that like I can be with the woman, but I still think heavily in terms of masculine and feminine energy and the fact that those two have to go together and it's not possible to break out of that.

And like I feel like that's what held me on thinking that I liked men, even though, if I genuinely compared my attraction to women towards men, I just liked women more. I'd be the type of person that if I described my crush and it was male to my friends, I would only ever describe their personality. Like, oh, he has such an amazing personality. Like, I think I really like him, but, never actually was like, damn, you're sexy. But like women, that's the immediate thought. And I never questioned that truly just because of the way that I was raised.

And, I guess this kind of gets into the different like, um, [00:19:00] groups in my school that I was hitting on earlier. But like, because all of my friends are openly gay at the time, but they're all white and gay. There's really only like two Hispanic people in that like group of friends I was with. None of them understood my struggle with sexuality in terms of having that immigrant parent and being a POC. All of them are like fight the power and if your parents homophobic, like go scream and like battle with them. I would like to not get kicked outta my house. Like, no, I don't wanna get, I'm not gonna do that, and it's also the way that you're raised as a POC child, like you're raised with respect to the point where, you don't even think that you can like, say that to your parent or like,

Tarchithaa: yeah, respect your elders. It's like literally all the time.

Kennedy: Like all the time. It's like you can't talk back in any aspect. You are raised with the idea of just you listen to what they say. You're quiet, you have your own beliefs, but you don't fight that. And so, like, I'm telling the people that I'm with that like, oh, I don't think I can come out to my mom because she's not gonna understand. And they're like, I am over here like rioting and like, I'm [00:20:00] fighting so much power. And I'm like, your parents should be able to, because we're the ones that are like, and I'm like, you just don't understand me. Like you don't get who I am.

Tarchithaa: At that age, like at that point in life, did them saying that make you feel like you weren't doing enough as a queer person? Because I feel like sometimes, like even when you were describing it to me, the way it came across is it seems they were just like, I'm doing so much for our community because I'm liberating myself, which for them, it's just coming out constantly, right? And it's like I'm doing so much for the community and you can't even come out to your parents. Like, is that?

Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. It didn't necessarily feel like I wasn't doing enough for the community. It made me feel like I wasn't like gay enough. Like I felt like I couldn't be in the same community as them because I'm thinking I'm never gonna come out to my mom. Being in that space with so many white people, I feel like they really didn't... some of them did understand that ideal because it also is hella conservative. So some of them are like, oh yeah, I'm never coming out to my parent. Like, they would not accept me at all.

Um, but I also like, and I'm like, okay, but you're also racist. So now there is not really, but I actually, [00:21:00] that did cause a lot of issues with my friend groups because I felt like the people that understood me best were actually racist and I didn't find that out until later. And I'm like so we kind of understand this strange intersectionality that we have with each other but you also hate- you don't hate me, but like you think-

Tarchithaa: You think I'm lesser than.

Kennedy: You think I'm lesser than you because of my skin color, because of the way your parents raised you. And it's always, it's always the poor white kids that were like that. I'm like, we're literally in the same situation. Like, what are you talking about, bro? We were being affected by the same people like.

Tarchithaa: Capitalism has us in shackles.

Kennedy: Literally.

Fareea: So true.

Kennedy: Like we were both suffering in the same way. We were mad at the same people. How are we fighting internally? Like, make it make sense. But like, that just reminds me of this, like this one trans person that I was friends with, and that was the first person that like I ever met that was trans in my life, and like his parents were really racist but I connected with him because he was able to come out to them and, be trans and go on this journey with them and be allowed to wear male clothes, be allowed [00:22:00] to cut his hair. Like, not necessarily the race riot, like I'm fighting the power type thing, fighting my parents, but truly just reaching a certain understanding and level with his parents and being like, this is who I am. Like and if you actually love me, you're gonna let that happen.

Tarchithaa: Exactly.

Kennedy: I feel like I understood him at a different level. I was also his girlfriend at the time, um, bisexual in love with her best friend. So like we were, it was just strange. I like connected really deeply with their story and, and then like I go to a party to hang out with them, right? And he's like, okay, by the way, my parents are racist, so you're not allowed in the house. I was like, hello? He's like, I'm just warning you, like, I dunno how they're going to react. And I'm like, why invite me over?

Tarchithaa: You were his girlfriend at the time?

Kennedy: No, so it was with him at his house because he invited a bunch of us over for this party in his tree house. And so we're all in the tree house. There's no, there's no in the tree house. Exactly. Oh my god.

Tarchithaa: You're not even in the house.

Kennedy: In the house. And so like, there is people have to go to the bathroom, right? [00:23:00] It ended up being just a whole group thing. Everybody's like, oh yeah, let's just all have a bathroom break at the time.

And he pauses and he's like, by the way, my parents were racist, so I don't know how it's gonna be with you getting in the house. And I'm like, hello?

Tarchithaa: Getting in- they're so racist, you can't even be in the house. That's crazy.

Kennedy: I don't know how they're gonna react to see, like, I don't know what they, they might say something stupid. He's like, it might just be like a joke or it, they might just say like a stupid joke, but, I think they're gonna respect you 'cause you're my friend.

Tarchithaa: You know, what gets me about that?

Fareea: Might just be a joke and it's like worst microaggression.

Kennedy: In the world. It might just be a joke. They might say something extremely racist, but please they don't mean it. And I'm like, please stop it.

Tarchithaa: I feel like what's crazy about that is, I feel like a lot of, okay, I shouldn't say white queer people because honestly, other queer people who are not Black are also subject to this, to be straight up. Um, you're willing to have your parents reach an understanding about your identities, but you're not willing to talk to your parents about other things in the world that matter.

 That's huge. If you know your parents are racist and you're gonna be friends with someone who's like black, indigenous, a person of color, and, you're not actively trying to talk to your parents [00:24:00] and change the way that they're thinking ... I also feel like sometimes they're just straight up racist and you're gonna invite your friend over? Criminal.

Kennedy: Yes. And that moment made me realize that I'm like, you're probably racist too. I get that you coming out to your parent and finally being allowed to be yourself was just a different level.

Like that was just an emotional understanding of yourself. And you not being black. Like obviously you're not gonna be like, uh, guys, stop being racist. 'cause like, if you were black, I don't think that'd be a problem. But like you, you understand that there's something wrong in them and there's something wrong in their beliefs and like you're friends with a black person, but you're not trying to combat it in any type of way.

I'm like, yeah, you probably have racist beliefs yourself. Like you probably are better than your parents but are still racist. And, I found that out about a lot of people that went to my school that they think they're modern, but it's like you're better than your parents, but you're still racist in like so many ways.

Tarchithaa: You're also only better because you're fighting for yourself.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Fareea: It's like. You think you're better, but it's like the bare minimum. It'll be like, I respect you, but like, that's it. Or [00:25:00] like, not exactly. I feel like it's not even like full respect. It's like

Tarchithaa: I tolerate you.

Fareea: I tolerate you. Yeah.

Kennedy: I let you exist. I'm not gonna be like completely.

Tarchithaa: I let you into my treehouse.

Kennedy: Literally I let you into my treehouse, bro. And I'm like, you actually don't understand the amount of fear because there's like confederate flags up in their house. I'm trying to run in and out of their house. It's also like Southern, so it's like southern hospitality. You walk into the house and you say hi to their parents, like you have a conversation with their parents. I'm like, I can't do that. I feel so weird not being able to do that and all of my other friends can do that. We go back up into the tree house and I'm like, bro, where am I? And why am I here? Like who am I? Like have the most, just like out of body like identity crisis type thing. Why am I friends with these people? Like how did I end up in this situation at this moment in time?

And after that, I just started distancing. There was also worse things that happened, like my white friends thought it was okay for them to say the N word hard E-R. I actually genuinely did not understand the cons because I would literally talk to them about how, 'cause there's this [00:26:00] one white dude who like, there's this one white dude in the group who hella fetishize POC women.

Tarchithaa: Oh.

Kennedy: And he had a crush on me. Right. And so like, and they were like, why don't you like him? And I'm like, yeah. 'cause he says the N word and they're like, oh yeah. And then they proceed to say that. They're like, oh yeah, it's because he says this. And I'm like, oh, what? What was not understood in that sentence? Like, what did you not get in what I just said oh, this is why she doesn't like him. And I'm like, so if you understand why I don't want to date him, because he says this, why do you think it's okay for you to say it?

Tarchithaa: It's 'cause it's not a valid enough reason for them. Like that's literally what it is. You're like, I don't like it because he says a slur and they're just like, I would date someone who says a slur. So why wouldn't you?

Kennedy: It's like, I don't even think this is a slur and I'm like, Lord have Mercy. That's when I'm like, okay, I cannot be friends with these people anymore. Like, this is not okay. I can't be in this friend group. But, this is like kind of the only people I've known and I came out, like I learned that I liked women being in this space. So it's really weird for me to feel like I can detach from this space, but I'm like, my identity is not being respected here.

 I cannot be a Black and Hispanic woman in [00:27:00] this space and actually grow into myself. There were two people that are Hispanic in that group and they're like Hispanic and gay. Our thing was that we're gay and we're like conservative. Like that was our group's thing about that they're gay and conservative. So like of the three POCs that are in there, none of us are conservative, but we're all gay. So like we're friends with them.

Tarchithaa: Like by proxy.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Fareea: it's really interesting because both of you went to like predominantly white institutions growing up, but Fordham was actually like my first predominantly white institution.

Kennedy: I've heard that from a lot of like commuters in New Yorkers.

Tarchithaa: And you are from, you're from the Bronx, right? Yeah.

Fareea: Yeah. And I always grew up going to school in the Bronx.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Fareea: So like all of my schools, white people were the minority. Like there were no white people. In any of my schools.

Kennedy: I wish it was me, but that's literally what made me wanna come to New York. That and on top of my family aspect. But in all the experiences I went through in high school and middle school I was just like, I don't wanna be in an environment that is nothing but white people and [00:28:00] five POCs. I don't wanna exist in this world anymore. And every time I would visit New York, because my mom is the only one out of my family members that moved out of New York, I would just be like, this is home.

Like, oh my God, I can, I see black people everywhere. Like there are Hispanic people everywhere. And I feel so comfortable, but it's like what comes at a cost of that is like, I feel like going into that community deeper, it feels more homophobic. Like I feel like I have to hide my sexuality in that community, but I don't have to fear my identity. But like in this white community that I grew up with at home, I can be the gayest person in the world. They love how gay I am. But like they're racist.

Tarchithaa: Almost in a tokenizing way. I totally get what you're saying. I did go to a PWI when I was younger, but it was like, like middle of sixth grade till like, I guess now. Um, the homophobia and specifically the transphobia, being in a South Asian space for me meant that like, I couldn't disclose I was gay in any way.

 There was like a, an event, one of the debate topics one time was, um. Like it specifically [00:29:00] spoke about arranged marriage or love marriage, which is a really common thing in South Asian culture.

But I knew if I showed up to that, like gay people don't even exist in that conversation. Like you could never exist in that conversation. If these are the conversations in your cultural space, there is no space for me to exist.

 I'll deal with the racism no matter what. Being in a queer space is just like, it's the same racism that I'm already used to.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: But then with being queer, if I was to try to have this conversation, I'm gonna be outcasted immediately. And also it's just gonna be like if you really followed X religion, if you really honored your ancestors cultures, then you wouldn't be gay. I don't think that's how that works.

Kennedy: Damn, that's foul and that isn't how it should work. Oh my God.

Tarchithaa: So I get what you mean with that only one identity can exist at a, a time without being like essentially like shot down.

Kennedy: Yeah. I actually think the part you just brought up is really interesting. This doesn't apply to my identity, but I have had conversations with like other black and Hispanic people in the LGBTQ and specifically their [00:30:00] connection to religion. It just tends to be very different than like, white people's experience, like being gay and with the religion. It was like the part that you just said about, um, oh, like this is somehow like disrespectful to my ancestors. Or like if I really believed in them, then I wouldn't be gay. And like a lot of POCs in the queer community struggle with the connection to your cultural and religion and like how homophobic it can be. I know a lot of black gay Christians that don't go away from Christianity, they just have to be there on their own terms.

And it's because of the strong cultural connection that comes with the religion. Because I feel like a lot of the times, and that's like obviously not all white people 'cause I do know white people have had that experience where it's like I am like spiritually connected to this religion.

And even though it has disrespected one of my identities, I'm not gonna walk away from it. But like when it comes to POCs, I feel like it's more common and at a different level because there's just a strong spiritual connection you're raised with that like you connect with and it's like, I can't just like, like [00:31:00] disrespect my religion because of my identity. I just have to like learn how to be a part of this on my own terms and learn that I'm not disrespecting my religion in any way by my existence and stuff.

Tarchithaa: I think you're right in the terms that, people of color are less likely to walk away from the spiritual, like creed, is that the right word? Like the creed that they were raised in. I think that connects so strongly with the fact that, one of the main reasons why, especially people of color are religious, like yes, joy and cultural connection, but also surviving against oppression.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And, this is what got you through for generations.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And so it's like you can't break it apart anymore because part of being who you are in this world, it is fighting.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And it is proving that you deserve to exist without assimilating.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And I think like, especially like we were talking a lot about how your mom, I think you said your mom immigrated like middle school age, like?

Kennedy: Yeah. 12.

Tarchithaa: 12. I immigrated here when I was two months away from being [00:32:00] 12. It was like the same thing for me, not in terms of homophobia-

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: Because I, like, I realized that I was queer, but like in terms of just like, I really started to see that what, as a kid for me was just, religion is just the way that we are, like to step out of that society and step out of that space made me realize that, my parents made it this far because of their connection to their religion.

And it really made me see how specifically like Indian people, like South Asian people in Malaysia are subjugated to oppression the way that they are. 'cause for me it was just life when I was growing up. And then to be pulled out of that and then put in America. Also obviously learning American history made me see parallels. They'd be like, this is what, like this demographic has gone through in this country. And I'm like, I recognize this because my people went through this sort of thing. And it made me really realize that a lot of the things that we do is so deeply connected to religion, but it is connected because it's our way of survival.

Yeah. Like it's our [00:33:00] way of just like making it through and being like, it's okay that like they tore down the temple. It's okay that like you have to work 10 times harder than the hegemonic group that is in Malaysia and like, and like this is what it is. The acceptance of, even if you fail, like it's okay, like God is there and like, like community believes in God.

So like community is like connected through God because I'm not sure, I'm sure that even like I have relatives who are not Hindu, like I have an uncle who's like, Baháʼí, like, I don't know. Yeah. Like we are in this religion almost because , it is a survival thing and community comes together and then coming here and not having that anymore, it makes you feel like being connected to religion is the only way you can like, not lose touch of like the, that ancestral connection of strength that came through surviving oppression if that makes sense.

Kennedy: I get what you're saying.

Tarchithaa: It's like if I let go of this, am I severing this tie?

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: You know like Legend of Korra? She loses the Avatar? Like that's like a visual way I can sort of describe it.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Fareea: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: I think that's the reason why a lot of people of color are less likely to [00:34:00] walk away from religion.

 If religion was connected to your cultural identity as a way to survive oppression you're less likely to walk away from it 'cause this is the strength that God is true. So, how do I reform this?

Kennedy: Jesus Christ. That sentence though, like your religion is like, what a part of your culture has like a survival from oppression. Lord. They could have a class just on that phrase, but Yeah, that's literally exactly what I was thinking. 'cause like with like black and Hispanic culture, a lot of it was just like christianizing or catholicizing yourself because of colonizers and the atrocities that they did to the people.

But then there's also like Hoodoo, Santería and like Voodoo that came out of those that was like ways of combating that, ways of keeping the African religion that you came with?

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Kennedy: And just molding it into what they're like forcing you to become, and it's like that, like the, the Christian book, like it'll have beliefs that they disagree with, but it has such a heavy cultural tie that is connected to like oppression and like helping [00:35:00] your people. Helping your people like through that oppression. And it is something that you can't let go of. And I feel like it's not negative and I feel like growing up around a specific demographic of white people, they really will think that like you are supposed to be letting go of religion because it is homophobic or because of all these things. But it's like, for POCs that's different because yeah, the Bible's homophobic, but it was also racist.

Like the Bible is what they used to like

Tarchithaa: Justify everything.

Kennedy: Justify slavery. Like that is literally, that is why we are in the situation we're in right now, in this day and age. For us, it just holds a different significance than simply letting something go because the Bible says that like, man cannot be with man, or something like that.

So I do feel like there's a very different and unique experience that POCs have when it comes to like religion. And I feel like for me, my mom is very connected to Catholicism, but she's connected more to the spiritual aspect rather than the religious aspect of it.

 We [00:36:00] were never like raised like heavily instilled upon with these beliefs and going to the Bible specifically, um. And like my father was Christian and like, uh, I don't know if this was like a problem in their marriage ever, Lord knows. Um, but like, I do know that like when we were young, we were going to like Christian stuff rather than Catholic stuff.

And then when he passed, like we, we didn't start doing Catholic stuff, but like, we would just be like, whenever my mom would do anything catholicy mm-hmm. Like, we would tag along with her and stuff, but it wasn't something that we were like heavily raised upon. But like, the way that my mom is with like her Catholicism and her spirituality is like, I feel like what makes me so spiritual and like, feel like, like even though I'm not connected to a certain religion or certain path, like I follow a lot of spiritual principles and like spirituality like, goes over my life because like for her, like, I don't even think she realizes it, but it, she does use it as like a tool to overcome oppression.

Mm-hmm. But like, as a way to like get her [00:37:00] through like some of her roughest times.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm. It's strength.

Kennedy: like literally.

Tarchithaa: It gives you strength literally. 'cause like my mom has been through so much.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: Like, I I would not have survived half of what she did. My mom is so deeply religious and spiritual and I know that's what gave her strength. Yeah. Like literally like that pure strength. It's. Who am I to deny that? Like, literally

Kennedy: That is exactly how I feel like towards my mom. It's like all of the stuff that she's gone through and has been able to get over, like whenever she tells me like the end or like the moral of the story, she's like, and it was literally just God, it was just because I'm connected to this path and I prayed really hard and like I, like I connected to spirituality deeper.

Like that is the only thing that kept me going. And like when she would tell me those stories, I see how that connects to like the culture and like the religion literally being how you can keep on going.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Kennedy: Like how we can even keep moving past these oppressions and connect to these movements and try to keep fighting for things that we deserve.

It's like religion and spirituality will have like that deep [00:38:00] connection that like can't be something that you can sever, like, because it's kind of expected to.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Kennedy: And it's like, it's not something that's severed because of your identity. It's something that you just like have to come to terms with on your own terms. And I feel like that's what I went through when it comes to like my spirituality with my mom. 'cause like we never really had any beef at all. She always, she always let me explore my religion and spirituality as I did. But I do feel like we had a lot of misunderstandings because I feel like she just didn't get like, like I didn't understand her path.

And like at times I did hold that belief that it's like, well the Bible is very homophobic so I don't wanna follow that. And like, she would just like disagree obviously. And like we would have that kind of like tension there. But then like I feel like she just let me openly understand religion and spirituality in my own terms.

And I feel like it just like turned into something that helped me connect deeper with like my identity as like a lesbian because it just, like, it let me connect deeper with [00:39:00] my identity as me and realizing that like, it's not necessarily like being accepted by like society, it's like something greater than that.

It's like divinity, which like just passes beyond any of our like ideals and like thinking that we're like any of this gender norms or like sexuality and stuff like that. So like, I feel like in those terms, she actually helped me a lot with my identity, like without actually knowing it at all.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Kennedy: Um, without us having like a huge discussion on that.

Fareea: I think, uh, what you said about like being able to explore it on your own terms is like very important because I kind of like grew up being very distanced from religion or like I distanced myself from religion and I was only able to like really come back to it. When I was able to explore it on my own terms and like outside of

Tarchithaa: mm-hmm.

Fareea: I don't know if a cultural context is the right word for it, but outside of, I guess, um, [00:40:00] a preconceived context, I guess.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. Yeah.

Fareea: That's what I like, like being able to not have those imposed ideas and explore it for myself and also see like other queer people in this space.

Kennedy: Yeah.

Fareea: That's what like made me able to come back to my religion eventually.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kennedy: Yeah. I love that. I love a good queer POC spiritual person. Like you actually are the definition of God to me.

Tarchithaa: Like how do you feel like queerness plays into your spirituality? Because it definitely does for me, and I think my queerness is spiritual.

Kennedy: Yeah, like I, like a hundred percent agree with that. And I feel like it helps me connect to, I guess, my own energy. Well, because a lot of, like when I got into like spirituality and stuff like that, it was about like, like energy and like feminine and like masculine energy. And I feel like what helped me come to terms with that, like with my sexuality, was like [00:41:00] realizing that both exist in me so strongly and like being able to heal the feminine and masculine parts of myself and like just learning, like, 'cause I feel like when you get to kind of like a different type of spirituality that isn't necessarily so patriarchal and like, so like, um, hegemonic like you guys say, like, um, it really is just about like.

Like divine energy, like it's not like masculine or feminine. It's not male versus female. It's not like God is a creator. Eve sinned like type beat. It's like, it's just like there is divine feminine energy. There's divine masculine energy. It exists in all people. It exists in different ways, and like you just have to heal both the feminine and masculine parts of yourself.

And so I feel like my queerness comes to play when I sometimes feel like a, I don't even know the word for this. It's like, um, it's not androgynous but it's like a, like a goddess that like not even a God, it's like a non-binary. [00:42:00] Like, like being, yeah, yeah. Like I feel like when I heal my feminine and masculine energy and I'm able to just.

Come to something outside of like being human. 'cause a lot of, like, my spirituality is like not necessarily connected to like Christianity or Catholicism, even though that's like what is closest to me. It's like more connected to just like spiritual beliefs that I learned, like trying to supersede your ego and like trying to be like closer to your higher self and like, connecting with these and like learn about different goddesses and gods that exist in like a bunch of different faiths that exist in like traditional African space that exist in like Hinduism.

Mm-hmm. So like, like learning about that. I just saw like, I don't know, like divinity just doesn't exist in like the gender norms that we think.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kennedy: That like we push so heavily upon people and so like. I feel like just it really, I don't know. I feel like it just really helps me be closer to divinity when I let go [00:43:00] of those like gender norms and ideas that I felt like constricted me so much in the past.

'cause like we were literally talking about this earlier, but like when I connected to me being lesbian, I like opened up the part of myself that is way more masculine that I felt like I had been hiding for so long. But because of that, I felt super disconnected from the part of me that was feminine.

And I was just like, I don't know how to be feminine anymore. Like, literally the prospect and the idea of like wearing a dress or a skirt scared me. 'cause I'm like, how do I do that? Like, how do I be like feminine? And I feel like when I connect more to like spirituality, I kind of just let go of like the constraints and constrictions and like.

Realize that like I don't, I don't have to like exist in a box. Mm-hmm. Like I don't have to only be masculine or only be feminine. Like I can just be both and experience both those energies at the same time. Or like I can just feel more feminine one day or feel more masculine one day and like exude both those traits really well.

 So I feel [00:44:00] like for me, my spirituality and like my sexuality just like, it just really like spirituality I guess, helps my sexuality and not necessarily like sexuality helps my spirituality, which maybe it does. Like I feel like being gay like probably does help me feel more connected to both masculine and feminine energy.

But like I feel like my spirituality helps me, like helps me be like myself and not like fear or like question that too much or not just like, feel like I have to be in some type of box.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. Wow, dude, that's beautiful.

Kennedy: Thank you very much.  

Fareea: So that's all the time that we have for today. Thank you so much Kennedy.

Kennedy: Thank you guys so much for having me. It was an amazing conversation.

Fareea: It was.

Tarchithaa: It was. Yeah.

Fareea: Well, thank you so much again, and thank you everyone who's listening. Bye.

Tarchithaa: Bye.

Kennedy: Bye.