Unspoken Expectations: BIPOC Exclusion in Queer Intentional Spaces

Season 1, Episode 3

Fareea and Tarchithaa are joined by Luzselena (she/her) in this episode as they delve into the lack of intersectional understanding that pops up in intentionally Queer spaces sometimes. From recounting shared realities of confusion to reflecting on LGBTQ+ American Films, the three of them explore the gamut of silent expectations regarding sexuality and gender expression influenced by Eurocentric hegemonic standards and how that impacts connection in platonic and romantic relationships. 

Check out Luzselena’s Art Instagram here: @luzselenasart!

Find us on Instagram @theeqilproject.

This season of the EQIL Podcast is sponsored by the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation.

Full Episode Transcript

Tarchithaa: Hello and welcome to another episode of The E.Q.I.L Project, or just E.Q.I.L, I guess if you're new here, E.Q.I.L stands for Empowering Queer Immigrant Lives. Um, and it's an initiative that me and my fellow friend Fareea started off like almost a year ago now. And now we are here. Speaking of introductions, my name is Tarchithaa. Um, go by she/her pronouns. Um, I am 22. I'm Tamil and I'm from Malaysia.

Fareea: And my name is Fareea. I go by he/him pronouns. I'm part of the South Asian diaspora and both of my parents are immigrants from Guyana. Woo.

Tarchithaa: And we have a guest today. Do you wanna introduce yourself?

Luzselena: Hi, um, I'm Luzselena. [00:01:00] My parents are from Mexico and I was born here, but I really identify with my Mexican culture. Um, my pronouns are she/her.

Tarchithaa: Yay! Woo! Um, cool. Speaking about queerness, 'cause we're all queer here and that's why we're here. What has your experience been with being in any sort of queer spaces or what do you define as a queer space for yourself?

Luzselena: I feel like for me, a queer space is anywhere where I feel safe to be. 100 authentically myself, like 100%. Because in other spaces I'm usually holding back a little bit. I'm not sure if I'm going to be accepted per se, or like if people will relate to me. Um, that's why I've been trying to like put myself in intentional spaces, like with the Queer Art Retreat. Um, I felt like there I could talk to everyone, even the freshmen [00:02:00] because like there's just a sense of unity and a sense of community that I don't feel, um, just like on the regular.

Tarchithaa: Yeah, that totally makes sense. Just to explain for people listening, the Queer Art Retreat was a queer, like spiritual art, like a day full of activities and reflection that, um, you were one of the leaders there. And it was specifically college students at Fordham University. Um. That's where the freshmen come from.

Luzselena: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there was like a panel of different queer artists who spoke to us, and then after that we went around Greenwich Village. Yeah. It was really cool.

Tarchithaa: Yeah, that's fire. Um, cool. So what are, if any, are places that are designated as queer spaces or like, things that were meant to be queer, um, that you could not bring your queer self like fully to. Spaces don't have to be physical. Right? Like it can be any sort of like area experience.

Luzselena: [00:03:00] I guess I'm just confused by what, what you mean by spaces then. Like, my mind is very literal, so like...

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Fareea: I guess the only thing that's coming up in my mind are like people, like I would think like

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: There are certain friends where kind of no matter where we are, being with them is kind of like a queer space in a way.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: It's the idea of like the people make the space.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: If that makes sense.

Luzselena: Yeah.

No, I understand. I think like most of my friends are queer. Um. The ones that I hang out with on a regular basis at least. Um, and I guess like at the Queer Art Retreat, that was the most queer space that I've like ever been in. There's a place here on campus that is known for being a queer space, but I, I don't really put myself there 'cause I just don't feel like I relate very much. And also I'm pushed away a little bit for various reasons.

Tarchithaa: Yeah, I mean, let's talk about that. Um. I feel [00:04:00] like I would agree with you in that statement where even though I am and I've been, Queer. That's a weird thing to say, but like, I've been queer as in like, I wasn't closeted when I entered college. Like 18 years old, and I wasn't like particularly hiding it. Um, even though my freshman year was covid year and I came in super late and like my start to college felt late, at least on this campus. I've heard about the space, and so I, I did wanna explore and at least when I went, it felt like this, this awkward space.

Luzselena: Unviting?

Tarchithaa: Yeah, somewhat. And I don't know if like, people make it uninviting, um, I don't wanna say that because I think a lot of the people who are there tried their, I feel like they, they try. Um, but it already felt like that was this inner circle that, I just did not understand.

Luzselena: Yeah. And also like I'm a spiritual person so I kind of lead by my intuition and like feelings a lot. And I've also tried going into that space and for [00:05:00] me, the energy just didn't really feel right. I felt like I wasn't supposed to be there and maybe like even just like that, it's a little bit cliquey. Mm-hmm. Like the people already all know each other and unless you're willing to go and. Like strike up conversations with all these people who aren't seeming to wanna talk to you, then I don't think that you would feel very comfortable.

And for me personally, I think it's a matter of ethnicity and the background that I come from, um, I feel like it's easier to talk to people who are either immigrants themselves or are first gen cause they understand. The lore is the wrong word. Like they understand the context behind, like how you came to be the person that you are now, if that makes sense.

Fareea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:06:00]

Tarchithaa: Um, I don't know. Should I elaborate on that?

Fareea what do you think?

Fareea: I mean, coming to Fordham, I was like. Initially very excited about the space because it's reputation. Like they had played it up to be like this really affirming space where everyone's like really friendly.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: And that just wasn't my experience. Not that it was like, like anyone was rude to me or anything.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: But I just kind of felt out of place and I definitely agree that it felt like. Cliquey.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: And yeah.

Luzselena: Yeah. Like we met in the commuter lounge. Yeah. And I feel like even there, the energy just was different. People actually were like, it's not that the people in this space that we're talking about aren't nice, but. There's a difference between walking into a room and everyone maybe looks at you and then like immediately looks away and keeps doing their thing, and you walk into a different room and everyone's like, oh, hey, how are you? What have you been up to? Like,

Fareea: [00:07:00] Yeah, that commuter space had such a community kind of feeling or like a family feeling.

Luzselena: Yeah. Like we all were coming from a like different space, but the commuter ness brought us together.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. And I feel like, I feel like that's what I expected. The space that we're talking about that is, that is expected to be a Queer space right? Like that's what I expected of it. So I think it is a beautiful space and I think it does exist, but I do feel like, um, and I, I feel like this is probably not just this one space, but this probably exists in a lot of other spaces too. I've heard other specifically queer people of color speak about this. There's a way to be Queer. Yeah. Um, and a lot of times if you don't fit that narrative. Like, all of a sudden you don't belong. And it's always been the same answer of like, oh, I just feel like I didn't really fit in or whatever. But then you look at the pattern and there's so many queer people of color, on this campus and existing, but these people are not [00:08:00] represented within this space.

And I'm not saying that this space has a responsibility to do that because it's not, you know what I mean? Like they can do whatever they want. Yeah. And like, we can do whatever we want and I know people who are involved in cultural clubs, like who have been presidents of cultural clubs and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And they are like openly queer, but they don't engage...

Luzselena: They don't engage in those spaces.

Tarchithaa: So it's not that they're not actively involved in, in a community on campus or whatever, right. But a lot of these people, when it comes to like choosing between. Like almost always queer people of color, opt to choose their...

Luzselena: cultural.

Tarchithaa: Culture. Yes. Culture like ethnic, like that, that relationship over queerness. From what I've heard, it's literally just been like, why would I go to this space that's supposed to be for queer people, but then I'm gonna have to deal with microaggressions all the time. And so then they're not even willing to go. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, I can get to explore my queerness, but I couldn't even fully explore it because for me, my queerness is connected to my cultural, [00:09:00] ethnic, religious, racial experiences. And like that was no space to really talk about that. So I feel like you add all these things together and one individual person cannot solve the lack of intersectionality, obviously.

Luzselena: Yeah. Like when I first got here, I feel like I definitely opted for. The commuter community because most of us were POC already, so they understood like my Hispanic heritage. They didn't have to question me or anything. But I will admit that most of the people that I met when I was a freshman, they weren't queer themselves. So I didn't have a space to talk about that side of myself. And whenever I would mention, oh yeah, like I identify as bisexual, they'd be like, wow, really? Like I would've never guessed. And I'm just like, well, I'm not out here like shouting it. But yes, that's how I identify like, I don't know. I just like when I enter white queer spaces, I often feel like I don't fit in and like I have to prove my [00:10:00] queerness in a way. Like they don't just automatically. believe me. Mm-hmm. I don't know if believe is the right word, but like,

Tarchithaa: But to have been to queer spaces often and to always be assumed straight, unless I tell them, I think it's crazy because I'm like, are you doing this with anyone else?

Fareea: I also feel like in both, like in all spaces.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: There's kind of like this assumption of cisgender, like that you're like cisgender and even in queer spaces.

Luzselena: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: I was kind of like surprised at how not all LGBT spaces are very T friendly, and again, there's this idea of gender is kind of spoken about in a white way. There are white standards of what gender is and... and like at Fordham, I think there are a lot of gender diverse people.

Luzselena: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: And. Maybe the [00:11:00] most out of them, might be white. I don't know. But there's like this need to , prove yourself in that aspect too. That like, I'm deserving of having the right pronouns used for me, or something like that. In the same way that , I feel like with certain people. Based on how they look or things like that. Mm-hmm. They'll like automatically get their pronouns respected. But then for like other people

Tarchithaa: like passing almost like,

Fareea: yeah,

Tarchithaa: I think it's, you do, I think

Luzselena: You can only pass if you're white.

Tarchithaa: Yes.

Fareea: Yes.

Tarchithaa: I was gonna ask you that. Do you think it's easier to pass as whatever gender you identify with if you're white?

Fareea: I mean, I think it absolutely is. And like even just like representation wise. Mm-hmm. Like I don't think I've met many trans people of color.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: And even like representation in media. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Social media or movies or whatever it may be. There's always this androgyny. This white androgyny [00:12:00] that's always typically masculine as well.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. I think the fact that androgyny is presented as masculine is really interesting.

Fareea: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: If you're gonna have quote unquote, an idea of what non-binary looks like, then what's the point?

Fareea: Isn't that placing it in a binary?

Tarchithaa: Exactly. Like, there is the way we have expectations for how, should a man present or how should a man be and how should a woman present? There's now this expectation of like how you should present if you are non-binary.

Fareea: Yes.

Luzselena: May I ask something? Um, do you feel, 'cause like when I'm thinking about this, do you feel like. Uh, like white trans person can walk into a space and people just automatically know to respect their pronouns. But for you as a POC that you have to tell people what they are and how you expect to be treated.

Fareea: Absolutely.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: I feel like when you're trans too, people are scared to use he or she or I guess binary pronouns. Because like, even though I've been [00:13:00] very open about using he, him now. Mm-hmm. And, but I don't mind they, them, and I do sometimes introduce myself as that, but I, I noticed that people are like so scared to use he, him, and it's strange.

Luzselena: Yeah. 'cause it's just like, that's what I said. So just say it. I don't know. I feel like, um, I present in different ways, like depending on how I'm feeling, but I feel like I often just go for a more feminine look just because it makes my life easier, especially in queer spaces. Like I don't think that. Like I'll ever quote unquote pass, you know? Um, and like even like this weekend, I went on an outing and there was a lot of queer people there, and I was kind of just like by my lone sum, and I could tell that they were just trying to figure out whether I was straight or not. [00:14:00] But no one asked, no one wanted to ask. Maybe they were scared or something. I don't know. Hmm.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's something too, like I, I feel like. People should like just ask instead of like assuming. Yeah. Or like there's nothing wrong with asking. Respectfully. Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And I feel like, okay.

Luzselena: I don't know if maybe it's like, they're scared.

Tarchithaa: I feel like most queer people do ask respectfully too. I feel like the people who would ask disrespectfully are not queer anyways. Mm-hmm. And like I don't know.

Luzselena: I think it's like there's like a racial boundary that's like in their brain stopping them from asking POCs. Like what their identity is as far as like gender or sexuality.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. Do you think, like, and this is a discussion that going into like, I guess like race studies , where the darker you are, the more masculinized you are.

Mm. Right. And like a lot of my friends who are women of color, um, whether they're trans or cis, have mentioned this, and I, I myself have also experienced it. Like I'm like medium toned, I [00:15:00] would say like medium brown. Um, but I definitely like, like dealt with that. And I do think that queer people, a lot of times, they don't wanna accidentally seem like they're falling into assuming you're more masculine because of your race and maybe that's why there's that barrier.

Luzselena: Yeah, I think that's what it is. Like they're just scared to be not politically correct. They, they'd rather just like kind of stray away from you and not really talk to you then give you a chance to find out like what, what your actual identity is. I don't know.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Luzselena: But like, that just often makes me like more inclined to talk to POC queer people.

Fareea: And it's really strange because it's kind of the same rhetoric you used to talk about, like queer people in general.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: Where like, oh, I don't understand something, so I'm going to distance myself from it.

Luzselena: Yeah. Can you elaborate?

Tarchithaa: Can you elaborate? Like, actually, I'm so interested. Yeah.

Fareea: I was thinking of it in the way of like the homophobic argument or I think the mindset behind is oh, [00:16:00] I don't understand this thing.

So it's like offensive to me, or it's scary to me. And there's like that idea of because I don't understand I'm going to distance myself.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Fareea: And I feel like. White queer people also use that same mindset for queer people of color. Yeah. And it's the same rhetoric that's being weaponized against all of us.

Tarchithaa: Right? Yeah. I don't know whether it's a matter of, like, I don't, um, it's not hateful, but it's more so like "I don't understand it and like don't wanna be incorrect."

Fareea: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And like they don't wanna make a mistake. And so they're like, how can I avoid making mistakes if I don't,

Luzselena: just don't talk to them.

Tarchithaa: Yes. If I don't touch this thing that I don't understand, and then it'll take me time to understand, because I have white friends who are queer. Yeah. And my white friends who are queer are the people that ask questions.

Luzselena: They put themselves in those spaces.

Tarchithaa: They put themselves in those spaces and they're like, and if they said something and I'm like, Ooh I don't know about that. Like, they would be like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, I totally didn't know. And so, [00:17:00] I think, and this is a general human thing too. It's like when people are like, I know I'm not racist. And it's like when you put this perception of yourself in your head, when people try to tell you that you might be, maybe you did something or maybe you said something that's racist.

Tarchithaa: The first thought of process then is like defense. And then it gets messy. And I think maybe to avoid all of that, they're just like, let me just not do, unless this person of color takes the initiative to approach me. Mm-hmm. And to explain to me and wanna want to have me in their lives. They're just like, let me not cross that distance.

Luzselena: Like what I gather from that is like the person has to show you that they have the space available for you and that you can have like intentional conversations with them rather than they're, they're taking up all the. The talking space, if that makes sense. I dunno. I feel like oftentimes I'm getting like, not mansplained too, but like, like whitesplained. [00:18:00] So like yeah, like I don't feel like I can exactly like what I was saying earlier, like I don't feel comfortable to be my authentic self.

There's some part of me that I have to diminish. Mm-hmm. Or. Make smaller in order to make them more comfortable with me.

Tarchithaa: Yeah, like them as in like other, like white people in queer spaces. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Okay. So speaking about having to diminish yourself in spaces with all of white queer people and stuff like that. I feel like this expectation that we have to be out all the time and I think like is seen as the pinnacle of the queer experience sort of thing is frustrating to deal with um, like there's a difference in how people of color interact with that and how. like white people interact with that idea. Mm-hmm.

And there's this movie that came out in 2020, um, it was called The Happiest Season. It was this Christmas movie mm-hmm. that came out. Um, but if you're listening, if you've never heard about this movie, Kristen [00:19:00] Stewart's in it and Aubrey Plaza's in it too. Oh yeah. It's a good lineup. They stacked up the cast. It was good. Um, but the film. I wrote the description here. Um, it's like a young woman with a plan to propose to her girlfriend while at her family's annual holiday party discovers her partner hasn't come out yet to her conservative parents. Mm-hmm. And the whole like premise of this like movie, like it is somewhat heartbreaking is like Kristen Stewart's character, like. Like, I mean, she wants to marry this woman, right?

Luzselena: Yeah.

Tarchithaa: And this woman's like, not out to her parents. And there are moments where she's just like, "I'm not gay. Like, I don't know who told you that?" Like when her, like family members or whoever

Luzselena: are asking.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. Or, but they're like, "she is gay." And she's like, "no, I'm not." And her almost fiance is standing in the corner

Luzselena: crying.

Tarchithaa: Peeking. So I feel like the film, it's a great film. It really explores the idea of when you're with someone who isn't out and it affects you sort of thing. Right. And I feel like a huge part of the queer experience, the queer dating for anyone in general, but specifically white [00:20:00] people - I've heard of people who are like, yeah, this was a deal breaker for me. Mm-hmm. Where they're like, if I'm with someone and their parents, their extended family, and like everyone doesn't know, um, they're just like, oh, it's like, it's a deal breaker for me.

What are, what are y'all's thoughts on this expectation of being out?

Luzselena: For me, it's like, I can understand why that might be a deal breaker for somebody. Mm-hmm. And therefore I just won't date them. Yeah. Like. Because I need to have someone who understands, like my relationship with my family. Right. And that maybe I just don't feel like they ever really need to know.

Mm-hmm. I don't know. It might be different if like, I am about to marry someone, you know, like in the movie. Yeah. But, um, personally, like I'm not very close to my parents. I've, they've never been to the type to be like asking who I am as a person. So. Coming out to them would only serve the purpose of like [00:21:00] kind of hurting myself.

Like I feel like I might just like lose any type of support that I've gotten from them thus far. And it just kind of bothers me that. It's like perpetuated that you have to come out in order to be like your most queer, authentic self. Because I know, I know who I am and I've thought about it damn long enough, like, like since I was seven years old. Like I've thought about it long enough and like it's been something that like I knew so. I don't know if my family that I'm not that close to knowing really makes a different in my own identity. I think people just want you to come out to your family so that they can have like the knowledge that they themselves can be out to your family.

Do you know what I mean?

Tarchithaa: Oh yeah.

Luzselena: Like, they're like, oh, if you're not out, then how [00:22:00] am I supposed to feel comfortable in that space? That's why I can sympathize with how they feel. Yeah. But it's just something that like, it's wrong to force anyone to do anything, you know? Yeah. So I would have to have a partner that understands that it's gonna take me some time, and like my relationship with my parents isn't. people's relationships with their parents come in different forms, you know?

Tarchithaa: Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. I get the empathizing because I also get that. I've come to the conclusion to like, I could not be with someone who couldn't accept that, my extended family doesn't need to know sort of thing.

Luzselena: Mm-hmm.

Tarchithaa: Yeah, I think the thing for me is like the shaming that comes with it, and I feel like there's some sort of shame, being part of a queer community or space when people know that you're not constantly coming out. Um, but that could also be my personal experience, you know?

Yeah. Like maybe everyone doesn't go through that and maybe I've just experienced that a little bit more. Do you have any thoughts? [00:23:00]

Fareea: I mean, for context, I am not out to my

Tarchithaa: mm-hmm.

Fareea: Family, to, uh, my parents or like any of my extended family.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: So like, I absolutely, agree with you and get what you're saying and I personally, I feel like coming out is like different for everyone. And just being queer is different for everyone and sometimes. It's something that kind of has to be for yourself.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: I guess like how you're saying that like you know who you are. Yeah. And like that's kind of what matters, matters the most.

Tarchithaa: Period. Yeah.

Fareea: Yeah. I think some people overlook that. I, I think everyone always kind of says like, oh, well you don't know how your parents will react. Like they might react well, or they would want to know or something like that. But I feel like at the end of the day, you should protect yourself and your feelings and your wellbeing and you kind of get a sense for it growing up, like how your parents will react or if they'll be [00:24:00] judgmental.

And I just feel like, your personal wellbeing is more important than acceptance from other people.

Luzselena: Yeah, I guess it's like. Uh, like other queer people might view, like someone who's not out as not, not there yet. Not on their level or like less, less queer or less proud. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not that it's just for my own protection, for lack of a better word.

I think maybe I would feel more comfortable coming out to them maybe as like. An older adult because then I'll be self-sustaining. And um, I think with age people just are a little bit more accepting like, you're about to die. Like, how are you not gonna still love me? Yeah.

Fareea: No, that's very [00:25:00] real.

Tarchithaa: That makes sense.

Luzselena: And I don't wanna change the way that they think about me. Like I'm still the same person.

Tarchithaa: Mm-hmm.

Fareea: I think that's a big part of it. It's like, you know that to them you'll be a different person. Yeah. And it's a hard thing and it's like that idea bothers me a lot and is a lot of the reason why I am not out. . Because. Regardless. I know that I'm the same person and I know that this has been me the whole time.

Luzselena: Yeah.

Fareea: But they're not going to know that.

Tarchithaa: They're going to think that you're different now. Yeah. And like X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Yeah.

Luzselena: Like I guess I'm more comfortable with them just maybe assuming like, like, oh, why is she such an ally?

Yeah.

Tarchithaa: Yeah. That definitely makes sense. I think it's like the idea of being out, it's like a..

Luzselena: I think it's an American thing.

Tarchithaa: Yeah.

Luzselena: Am I allowed to say that?

Tarchithaa: Yeah, [00:26:00] no, you, you have your, yeah. Yes, yes. Um, I think like a lot of that perception is not like, it's not just you. I've heard other people say it too, um, yeah, like I feel like I somewhat agree with that myself.

I feel like the pressure on coming out is so much higher here. Yeah. Ah, it's like a double edged sword in the sense that like, there's home and culture and then there's the queer community and it's always seen as like these two separate things where it's like, it doesn't have to be clearly 'cause there's so many queer people of color that exist.

Luzselena: Exactly.

Tarchithaa: It's punishable in your cultural lens because they could be like, oh, you're not yourself, and like if you were yourself, you're not accepted in this space. And then in a queer space, if you're not constantly coming out, like you're still somewhat berated for it. And so then both the doors shut on you and you're left to reflect in isolation and it's like, it's not a fun experience.

Luzselena: Yeah. I don't know. I guess that's why like, I'm such close friends with [00:27:00] the people that I am, um, with today. Like they understand the duality of it. Like you can be both at the same time. Culture informs a lot of our experience, so I don't wanna just like negate all of that just because I'm queer.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Fareea: And I feel like coming out. How do you even define coming out?

Luzselena: I'm gonna just bring home a girlfriend and be like, "Hey!"

Tarchithaa: You have to figure it out. I'm just gonna marry or be with whoever I'm gonna be with, and never gonna hear me directly say anything.

Luzselena: No. And I think that's like how a lot of queer POC people like interact with that. Like, you'll find out, but it's not like a verbal conversation, like sitting down like, I have to tell you something. You know, like, I think that's the way it's kind of portrayed in like American media, like coming out. Mm-hmm. What's that movie with Nick Robinson?

Tarchithaa: Oh, I [00:28:00] know what you're talking. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Love, Love, Love Simon!

Luzselena: Yeah. Like, oh, you have to have a sit down conversation with your entire family and like, it has to be super serious and like, it, it's life changing. Yeah. Like for me, it's not life changing. That's just who I've been like. Yeah. Could be. The way that you find out about other parts of me, you'll find out about this part of me.

Tarchithaa: Exactly. I think like you're absolutely right. Like it doesn't have to be, and I think part of it also, ties into the fact that , if you're oppressed in other ways and like, when someone's racist towards me, it's not a shell shocker for me. I'm just like, damn, that happened and I'm, now I'm going to work. that's generally how it is. Any sort of diminishing of my cultural identity that I receive is something that I generally brush off anyways. Which, I mean, it could be a survival thing. I think there's just how a lot of people of color live.

When you already generally are good at brushing things off, then I think that applies not for everyone. Not for everyone, but. It [00:29:00] could translate to your queer identity as well, where it's like, oh yeah, I don't fit in these queer spaces, but whatever. Mm-hmm. Instead of like, I don't feel, I don't fit in these queer spaces and this is gonna affect me deeply.

And it's a different psyche of just being like, things don't have to be that deep. There's a lot of things that I'm being knocked on for every day because of my immigration status or um any slight accent that I might have, or a lot of different experiences. So maybe that's just being oppressed in other ways experience where it's like you just sort of pick yourself up and move on. Yeah. And that translates into the idea of coming out.

 I know I'm Tamil and I'm always gonna be Tamil even though I'm part of a diaspora and I've had experiences from other South Asian people about not being directly from India or whatever. Mm-hmm. It doesn't matter to me 'cause I know what my culture is and you can't take that away from me. And queerness is the same way to me. It doesn't matter if you don't think I'm proud of myself because I just am. I am.

Luzselena: No, yeah. I understand. Like why does there have to be a definition of what [00:30:00] queerness is. Mm-hmm. Like it should be more open, shouldn't it? Like not so hegemonic. Yeah. Yeah.

Fareea: Well that's all the time that we have for today. Yay. Yay. Thank you so much for joining us.

Luzselena: Thank you for having me. I had fun talking about this. I feel like it's something that maybe we stray away from because it can be a little bit difficult or uncomfortable to hear, but it is a real part of at least my experience, so.... It was interesting to be able to have like an opportunity to speak on that.

Tarchithaa: Yay. Yeah. Thank you.

Fareea: Thank you for sharing that with us.

Tarchithaa: Cool. I know you're a creative person and you do a bunch of stuff. Is there somewhere you would like people to know about your work or just know about you?

Luzselena: Um, I recently opened an art account on Instagram to post all of my stuff to make like a little portfolio. It's @Luzselenasart. Yeah. Uh, they'll put in the transcript somewhere.

Tarchithaa: [00:31:00] Yeah. It'll be there. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Luzselena: So if you wanna check out my work, go ahead, thank you.

Tarchithaa: Which you guys totally should. Yeah. Yeah.

Fareea: And thank you guys for listening!

Tarchithaa: Yay!

Luzselena: Woo! That's it. Bye!

Tarchithaa: Okay, bye.