Veena Dutta

Veena Dutta moved into the Jane Finch community in 1975 where she and her husband brought up her son. Veena started the Asian Community Centre and then subsequently, started the Elspeth Heyworth Centre for Women. The Elspeth Heyworth Centre for Women continues to operate to this day. As of April 2012, Veena is reluctantly retired and lives in Woodbridge.

When did you arrive in Canada?

We came to Canada in 1974. I was born in Pakistan and then when the country was divided, we came as refugees to India and then we lived there for many years. I was educated there in the university. I worked in India for 10 or 12 years, then I got married and we moved to London, England. I was there for about 7 years and from there, we moved to Canada. We landed in Halifax and in less than 1 year, we came to Toronto. We first lived in High Park just across the street from the High Park itself.

Tell me how you came to live in Jane Finch.

I moved into the Jane Finch community in 1975 because when you are new to Canada, you don’t know the neighbourhood or the area so what happened is a real estate lady, who was helping us, she took us around. She said this was a very popular area; the shopping centre is not very far. At that time, there was no Yorkgate Mall, there was only the Jane and Finch Mall. So, we moved into this area, behind the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre (4400 Jane Street) on Gosford Blvd, just opposite Gosford Public School. I could see my son going to school from my kitchen window and I would see him come back home – we loved that area. There was a big block of houses and all the townhouses there when we moved in. There were quite a few people living on my block - sort of like a half circle and there was a direct walkway to the bus on Jane Street.

When you moved here, what do you remember going on in the community at that time?

Because I was a new person myself in the country, I did not know what a community centre was. Then I came to know about the Driftwood Community Centre but I was hesitant to go. I don’t know – I didn’t know anybody, what do I do? Then someone told me there was a Centre across from Driftwood (Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre), so I went to the Centre first time with my son and he was playing with toys there and he was happy for an hour or so and he came back home. And, there were some Italian ladies at the Driftwood Community Centre across the road – you can go there, you can spend the whole day. My husband was working and I was alone at home alone with a child and after rest and food and I asked what was there to do with life – has to be something. So, I started going to the Jane/Finch Centre and to the Driftwood Community Centre, looking at different things happening. There was a child care room. I can’t remember her name but I can visualize the face of the lady, then there was a room near the office where we used to have programs there after we started the Asian Community Centre. I was home alone and as you go shopping or go to the Community Centre, you see so many people, Indian/South Asian people on the road, sitting in the park or on the bench in the mall and they were sort of like lost because of lack of language. They couldn’t communicate. They were sort of....if you ask them, they would feel as if God sent them someone who could speak their language. There were some people charging them $5.00 to fill out a simple form or a pension form for $50.00. They had to pay, because they needed the money and there were people who didn’t know how to put their money in the bank – how to open an account.

As my son started to go to school all day, then I started to go by the store (Towers in the Jane Finch Mall). We went there and one of the ladies asked me in my language about buying a can of Chick Peas. So, I helped her and I was thinking look at that, there are so many people you see and there is no help for them what so ever. You might remember a lady by the name of Aruna, also from India but she married a non-Indian guy. So, we decided to do something for the people, for the abused ladies, especially South Asian. It was too much for them. No help, no language and for good or bad reasons, they were helpless. So what we decided was to do something and we met Elspeth Heyworth. We were only just imagining what was happening, keeping an eye on what’s happening.

Elspeth was a Community Coordinator at York University. Because she was born in India, she knew the problems of Indian people. She came to my house, we sat in the kitchen on Gosford Blvd. and she told me that me and Aruna, we should do something because the people were helpless – all the senior people, ladies and men both. So, we learned how to do the outreach. I did not know what the word outreach means. She said it was to reach the community. Elspeth came with us when we went to the buildings on the south west corner of Jane and Finch (one block south of the corner). That building was considered to be not very safe. She came with us, my son and Aruna. She told us how to go, how to do outreach. You make a note of the Indian names in the lobby, you go to the top of the building and you criss-cross at each level so that you know where you are. You knock at the door, you say, “My name is Veena and I want to talk to you to see if we can join hands to help each other.” We printed hand-written flyers and we left them under the doors. We knew there were a lot of South Asian people living in that building. We also had to buy pizza and coke for our children because they were giving us company. We announced to them that we would get together and do something to help ourselves because there was no one to help our community.

It was winter, I was living just across the road from Driftwood Community Centre and Aruna was coming from somewhere far and we were late. So, we never took it that seriously. By the time we reached the main door of the Community Centre, it was jammed packed, outside in the snow and I had to make my way to reach the door and I waited for Aruna and she came and we said, what do we do? We were sort of lost. What have we done, what do we do? Okay, Aruna said, we will manage it. So she took each person, one by one in a room and I took another person to another room asking their name, where they lived, what do they do, do they have any problems? We learned about so many of the problems. Then Elspeth put me on the Board of Directors of the York Community Connection. I think at that time, it was a different value of a Board member like people came to congratulate me because I was accepted as a Board member but now it’s a different thing, right?

From there, I met Ann Wirsig, Executive Director from Northwood Neighbourhood Services, I met Pat O’Neil and they told us that we should do something to help these ladies, to support them to move further. We were given one table and two chairs at Northwood’s office on Rivalda Road. I would sit there and I would attend their Board meetings and keeping an eye to see what they do at that time. There was no computer. A computer was something that got donated from the Sick Children’s Hospital; they used to punch the cards – different type of computers, right? Some of the services were in my car with people’s names in the folders until we got a proper place.

From there, we were very nicely encouraged by Peggy (Edwards) at Jane/Finch Centre, Pat O’Neil (city councillor), Ann Wirsig – they said we should do something to help the people. We were providing a free service. I would take the newspaper every day, go to the different community centres and one room was booked for the elders, they would come to have a cup of tea or coffee that was provided by Northwood Neighbourhood Services out of their expenses and the seniors would spend the day, play the cards. Sometimes in the evening, they didn’t want to go back home because they were not welcome home – they were old, old people.

Somehow, the news reached the United Way and that there was something happening in this community – they had to support us. We were given a small room on Milvan Drive. It was in the same block as the Latin American Community Centre used to be. I remember when we had to have a copy made, we had to cross the road, make a copy and then come back. We started to work from there with a little bit of money from the City of Toronto, 25%, there was 50% from the United Way and 25% from the City of North York. We hired 2 people; 1 for the reception and one to help the people. I remember the day, it was a cold day and I came upstairs and I was trying to catch my breath and my girl on reception told me that there was somebody waiting for me. I said I wanted to have my coffee please and she looked after it. After I had my coffee and got settled, I told her on the telephone, she could send this person in. She was a lady from the United Way with the application form in her hand to fill out the form, give it to her. She took me around from Milvan Drive all the way up to Jane and Finch and that was where I wanted to have an office of my own. Before Milvan, they were trying to get us some place, to pick out a place and they would look after everything because I was not aware and Pat, Ann and Victoria, they were always trying to help. We were new, we didn’t know this business. It was a new business and I had to use my brain – my goodness, I didn’t want to do anything wrong. I only hoped I was doing fine. We started the Asian Community Centre and I was made the Coordinator. And then, all the coordinators of all the communities, they would come to the Milvan Drive room upstairs for monthly meetings of Coordinators. We started an ESL class and settlement services and it grew out of our control. I had a small room in the back side of the office.

Because of the Indian culture, it’s the adult family system and the seniors in the family; they are not very welcome because they are of no help for the family. The family wanted them to go out to spend their time and where could they go so they had to go to the mall, sit on the bench or come to our office. Some of the senior men, they would come to our office and they would take off their turban, put it on the arm of the sofa (I took over my sofa from home) and they would sleep like that and they were snoring. They had no place to go. There was no other place to go because they are not welcome to stay back in the home. There was no other place and this was their community centre. They just wanted some place to get out and be indoors. We were not able to work because they were snoring – to disturb them or not work? And as the money started coming, I tried my best to hire people from my own community.

There were people who had never seen a vacuum. So, we bought them a vacuum to clean the carpet. They didn’t know how to work with that so we just switched it on and told him what to do and how to do it. He was listening but couldn’t comprehend what she was telling him. I went to my office and then he started it – I could hear it. Any then my girl came and said, “Come see what is happening”. It was giving some smoke and the guy was picking up some dirt from the carpet and putting it in his hand and the vacuum is sitting over there with the smoke!

How long was the Asian Community Centre in existence?

It started in 1983 – I’m trying to remember it...until maybe 1991. The dates are pretty close. I think, all over the world, the woman is considered to be the second person in the family. The head of the family is always the man. But it’s more in India – a woman with my appearance and look, they had a problem, that first of all, she’s a woman. And then, I look like Indira Gandhi and they had some problems back home about their new Prime Minister. And, they (the men) were determined that I should be moved and that some man should come and take up this position. When they would come into my room and they would sit and say this room is full of money and I’m sitting on the money like this. They were not aware of the functioning of the Centre – there was a Board of Directors and there were some program committees and a budget committee and everything. Only thing that they knew was there was a lot of money – that information they had. So, they were determined to take it away. Somehow, they were given the wrong idea about the Centre and either it had to stop or at least calm down. We were jumping from one place to another for the programs so we had many locations to work at – at Yorkwoods, at Driftwood, at the office. We would take people for summer trips in the buses and people were so happy. They couldn’t believe that this could happen here.

So, there were the people who said, “we have to move this woman from here” which was not going to be easy because I had all the support of my funders, each and every department and because we used to go to the funding meetings, interviews and everything. As it happened, we had to call an annual general meeting. Every year, we used to call it but that happened to be the one. We were warned by the other group that we had better be careful so the police were at the meeting. And, I was warned by the police, the guy who was assigned the job that if he put his hand on my shoulder, I was too slowly get up and run for my life because my life would be in danger. So, things got started and they continued, then we started listening to some unpleasant situation that was coming up. They were contradicting and yelling – I think that Peggy (Edwards) was on our Board at that time. She said that we can sort out any problem and any misunderstanding they had and they said no. Those guys in the Driftwood gym, at the back side of the wall, they were standing by some big guys and they were waiting. They were to be given one sign and there would be bloodshed.

We had a lawyer who was physically handicapped and she was also there and we invited people from the government department because we were clean, everything was there. When the whole thing started, the police man told me to go so I slowly got up and went up the stairs and went to the car. I told the auditor that she was not able to run if something should happen, she would not be able to walk out so she would have to get out. I came home, my husband was home as I told him not to come because I knew there was something happening. I was warned by people from different directions – be careful, okay?

After that, we just gave the whole organization to that group of men – you take it but we wanted to keep the dignity of the community. We will not run it, you run it. When I came home and as I entered my home, my husband looked at me and said, “What?” and I said, “We lost it”. My telephone was ringing up to 2:30, 3:00 in the night because people from the ministry, they wanted to know that I was home and that I was alright. So, this is how we lost the Asian Community Centre. After they took it over, the people who we were serving, they had a big trust in us. I go with you to the bank, take your pension cheque and put it there and the money is hers. It belongs to her. People had that type of trust with us. I was able to carry some of the confidential folders with me, from the abused women in my car. I was like, we’d lost our jobs, you are not giving us our money and we had to contact the labour department.

People would call me at home and I could not do anything. During that period, I was looking for someplace where we could do something – people couldn’t come to my home for the service, we should have them somewhere and I was able to get a room with cheap rent, an unfinished room. I took my garden chair there, one for me and one for the woman and one small table. Because Bob Velthere (later became the auditor) donated some furniture to the Asian Community Centre, we were able to move that furniture from there. The worse thing that happened was that I didn’t know they wanted to fire me. I first thought I would be working with that new Board. I went there and couldn’t open the door. Overnight, they changed the lock. But, I had a meeting with one of the funders and said that I cannot go inside the Centre. She said not to worry and that she would call later on. For me, everything was still new. So, I had the folders in my car and I used to go to this new room.

Elspeth Heyworth, at the time, she had become the Executive Director of Dixon Hall and she was going on vacation. I wrote a book of poetry and she wrote the preface for that. She corrected some of the spelling and did whatever she could – she helped me a lot. She said that by the time she would come back, she said she wanted to see this book and I told her it will be there. Elspeth never came back (she drowned in Goa, India) so we have a name-plate on the door, Elspeth Heyworth Centre. We knew everybody from the City of North York, it was a different city at that time, City of Toronto – Art Eggleton and Jenny (she was the person from the City of Toronto). Anyway, they all came for the open house.

I started a new organization called the Elspeth Heyworth Centre for Women. Anyway, she came and she warned me...listen Veena, do not tarnish this name Elspeth Heyworth because that year when she went to India and then drowned. This was the news all over the City. Malcolm Shookner, that lady from the City of Toronto, she came……don’t tarnish this name because you will come to me for funding and I will not give it to you. She said this because there was a Centre, the Asian Community Centre still there, physically, practically and they appointed a group of different ministries and community centres and community leaders to save that Centre because they had invested so much money - they wanted to save it. But, it did not work. I think it was within 2 – 3 years, each and every day there was something missing, nobody was feeling safe to go there, and the ladies were scared. There was big money coming for LINC classes and money was being abused. The Directors of the Board hid the cheque book from me and a log. The day they took the cheque book and the log, I said no more because I didn’t want to do anything financially wrong and I was again warned by the same group of people – we will take you to court, we will see you behind bars.

Anyway, the Asian Community was gone and the Elspeth Heyworth Centre for Women was started. But we started the Elspeth Heyworth Centre while the Asian Community Centre was still operating. It was not competition but government and other funders; they were trying to help so that it survives. They would not give me the money. You remember Rouvean Edwards (past President of the Jane/Finch Centre), well she came and I told her that this is what’s happening. She said, “Give me time to think about it”. Rouvean got me $3,000 from a church grant; a grant called PLURA. With that grant, I was able to pay the rent. There was nothing else. And then I told her I had no money coming and no hope of any money coming. Okay, she said. She went back and they made an exception and gave me $1,000 more.

This was a day and night job, thinking about what to do and how to survive. We made some room for some Toronto or Metro agencies where people go before they get their welfare and interview them. They brought some chairs and some cabinets for their clients and we used to use that furniture for our place. So, this is how it gradually started. We had big money but we lost it. There was a time where the Centre was applying for the LINC program and they were going to rent the whole floor because it was a big program and that’s how I got childcare. We lost that programming but I think they are still providing whatever services they can. I tried to work as much as I could until the age of 65 and I was able to train some people who could carry on. I took them to the funder so that they know who is who and how to do the proposal and the meetings and taking care of things – it’s a big responsibility.

I retired when I needed surgery on my knees, into my 70’s. I would have still worked and have staff do the leg work and I’ll do the indoor work. But, my mobility was not good – I was not able to. I was not contributing any CPP as you don’t do that after 65. We wanted to see if we could get funding from the government for one-way cab to take me to the office. I was spiritually and morally attached to the Centre. It was my child. But, I’m happy as its still there and God willing, it will continue to run.

There were people from our own community, people from Canada, and people from the Italian community that supported the Centre. Irene (Pengally), she helped me to get some funding from where she was working at the City of North York. She gave me a call to say my application has been approved and you can start making the arrangements. So the money would be coming, I knew it.

With personal relationships, I was not very articulate. I would not talk much but I was a very observant person about who was doing what. Where’s Wanda going....Wanda is going to the Health Centre and Peggy’s here and then Sue (Wilkinson) has come and then she decided to go to Cambodia and there was a big farewell party and then she had to come back. Sue helped my Centre for some time as a volunteer and helped to write the proposals.

The community faces many issues today, what were the major issues for people who used to come to your Centre?

The first issue was the language. Language barrier, isolation, woman abuse – I named the Centre, the Elspeth Heyworth Centre for Women but that didn’t mean that men were not allowed. I met with some men who came and gave me the challenge, “how come you are looking after the woman, who is going to help the men”? I asked what problem they can have. “Excuse me”, he showed me his back where his wife had been beating him. “I, as a man, cannot go to the court to say that my wife has been beating me”. And, the young women studying at York University (attending the ACE program), they were referred to me by York to my Centre and told them they would get help. One of the young woman said that she could not go home. “Every day when I go home, my uncle is waiting for me. My parents are gone to work and there was no one at home and the moment I go home, he will come closer to me and feel me and touch me here and there.” She told her mother about it and her mother told her “Shhhh, don’t tell this to anybody”. This was happening to the young women all over. “When you are married, you will forget about it” said her mother. I asked her if she would like to join a group. She is a living person, in person who can give us a clear picture of what’s happening in the community and how we can develop the programs to look after that. She told me that she wasn’t the only one – there are so many young girls at York University - they talk with each other and they won’t open their mouth at home. They were scared of their own family.

You must hear in the news “for the sake of religion” you can’t do this and you can’t do that, you cannot stay late in the evening, you cannot go to a party, you should come home straight from school and do only the work and work with your mother. So many restrictions. So, our bag was full of problems. I was given a very positive response from the funders and I really appreciated those who could understand. They were learning themselves, they were not aware. They were learning and they were providing us with money to run the programs.

How do you remember the community responding to the issues?

The community was very appreciative. There was a certain concern that when the Asian Community Centre crashed, other Centres wanted to get that funding but it was allocated to the Asian Community Centre. But they would say that they would take this project, that project, etc. I was watching and I went to one of those Centres and said that if I can be given one corner from where I can provide the service (before the Elspeth Heyworth Centre) but they said, it was too ugly to create any more of what’s in the community. I had to sit back. Then I started to look for the place we have (Keele and Finch). People were concerned, we were appreciative. Behind that appreciation, there was a concern that if we can get the money, we could provide the service....”why does Veena have to do it”? Veena is not the custodian of the community, the purpose is to serve the community. So, this is how it happened.

Were politicians or influential people supportive of the work you did?

Yes, they were appreciative with the name of Elspeth and the name Veena. I was the first person to start the program fundraising for the community, for the Centre. That would give us our own money and I don’t have to have your permission. This money is not for this purpose but I can spend it for this. This is my money and I can spend it in the way we wanted it. In my age, it’s very hard to remember the names, I see the person but I don’t remember the names. They were very appreciative, very helpful and sometimes helping out of their way.

What were some of the challenges when you were working in the community?

You know Wanda, it’s a free country and there is a law that anyone can get incorporated. You have three or four people and you write the constitution, you take it to the government department and get incorporated. Once you have an incorporated number then you are entitled to apply for the funds. There was one fund. There was only Jane and Finch and only Veena but now that the funds were divided because there was another group applying for the same money (Asian Community Centre) so this was how the money was dwindling. Even now I think there new registrations every day and new incorporations and then it’s up to the funders to decide who to give money to e.g. service for young people, service for seniors, service for language, childcare. There were so many programs so that was a very big challenge. I’m not happy that I am away as I would still like to see how things are done.

What are you most proud of?

I am proud of one day. I made the habit that when my son goes to school, my husband goes to work and I would run to the office and that was even before office hours. One day the telephone rang and I picked up the telephone and there was the news that my Centre has been nominated and approved to get the award of The Best Community Centre in Ontario. This was given out by the Governor General of Ontario. I still have the award in my office; I hope it’s still there. I still have the pictures. It was about 1994, the year my husband passed away and I got the award. I had to go to the Roy Thomson Hall because it was one of those things. My Board was introduced and when they looked at me, I told them, because I was not dressed up as such, I was in runners and I said that I would appreciate it if I don’t go up to the stage because I wasn’t dressed – they knew. In one year, from the bottom, I was in the top of the province as the Centre. You feel very good when you are appreciated for what was happening – I was on the top and I had everything that I wanted. You were very busy Wanda, developing programs at the Health Centre for unwed mothers, young mothers. We were hearing all that and we were in the office and you were running around helping the young girls.

What are some other fond memories you have of the community?

When I go out and I still go out on Jane Street and cross Steeles, from there down to Wilson and at each and every crossing, the buildings have some memories in my mind. Where I went into a woman’s house, when the men are not around to help them, when I helped one lady who was dying of cancer and she was left out by her husband and everybody, we went to her funeral and her coffin was provided by the municipality because there was no money. We went to the Beechwood Cemetery at Steeles so when I drive down Jane Street, I have lots of memories. When the Yorkgate Mall came up, there was nothing there. I remember when there was a big function held on the Jane Finch corner at the plaza where the Towers was (Jane Finch Mall). There were tables from different communities and a big tent (Ruth Morris from PEACH organized the event) and there were some poorly produced flyers for the Centre. You came to my desk and you were looking at me and I was looking at you and your expression. You were not aware that there was already a Centre started by the name of Elspeth and you knew Elspeth so well. I know you had the memory of being under the tree in Northwood Park with Elspeth and when I saw your expression, I said, there’s somebody who knows what’s happening, and you know inside how things are happening. The success was crawling and it continued crawling.

Any other comments?

I used to be an interpreter at Daystrom Public when they were over in that area. It was very interesting to communicate what the parents feel and how the children feel. There was a lack of adaptation. One of the teachers at Gulfstream Public School said that they were having an emergency…..can you come? I was not very far so I ran there and I met with the teacher and she took me aside and said “Look at this boy.” The mother sent the boy to the school with only a winter jacket and shoes, nothing underneath – no shirt or sweater. The teacher asked him to take off his jacket and hang it up like other children but he was crying because he didn’t want to. We had to call the mother and explain to her that you don’t simply put on a jacket. So, we had questions like this – this was not an ongoing program where I can ask for the money, I had to leave my office to call the mother, meet with the principle and the teacher and the young child. He was wondering what’s happening here – what are they going to do to me. That was one case; there were so many cases with so many different issues.