Pat MacKay has been a long-time supporter of the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre. Pat got involved with the Centre in the early 80’s and spent a great deal of time providing opportunities for the Centre to benefit from her unique fundraising skills and gifted insight in knowing how to connect people with resources to those without. At the time of this interview, Pat was 90 years old and living comfortably in her own apartment unit in Toronto.
Tell me how you got involved with the Jane/Finch Centre?
The fundraising came a little bit later. The very first connection with Jane Finch Centre was because I was on the Board of Trustee for the Hospital for Sick Children. They undertook to do a project called, The Child in the City because they were concerned about children being brought to them rather than having the hospital take their services to where children lived. It was their responsibility to have connections and to make their services available to children. They started this project and they learned a lot from children about their neighbourhood and where the dangers were, for example. I remember when they had the children draw maps of their neighbourhoods and the route they went to get to school. From that, they found that there was a hole in the fence somewhere where children took a short-cut across a railway track to get to school and nobody knew that they were doing that. It was clearly a hazard and that was just one of the things that the map of the child’s neighbourhood showed to them as to where the danger points were. So, I was aware of the agency and of the neighbourhood. (Part of the study that was conducted in Jane Finch utilized the Child/Parent Drop-in Centre by interviewing parents who used the program compared to parents who didn’t, measuring children’s progression).
Then a got a phone call from some friends, Terry Lee and Malcolm Shookner with whom I had worked on a teen project. They invited me out to breakfast because we always had a little joke about everyone knows there is no such thing as a free lunch but I’ve always said that there is no such thing as a free breakfast either!
They had been taken on as consultants by the Jane/Finch Centre to help with fundraising. From that, they called me and asked me if I would get involved in terms of being a mentor and in bringing some other people to help with fundraising. Basically, it was to teach fundraising, not to do it ourselves. That’s what was very appealing to me. Most agencies who want help, want you to do the fundraising for them and just hand over the money. What was unique about this in my experience, I don’t think I have ever encountered it anywhere else, but the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre said very clearly, “please don’t do it for us, teach us how to do it”. And that is very appealing because when you start to work with an agency or with an individual or whatever it might be, they become dependent on you. You get locked in and you also have a sense of ownership that isn’t yours really. You really are there to be helpful and the idea of teaching people how to do community fundraising, particularly a neighbourhood like Jane Finch where they don’t have contacts - you know socially, the people who are on the Boards of corporations and banks and whatever. So, in terms of corporate fundraising, for example, they are starting from absolute zero and with no contacts about where to go. Most agencies have some Board members, particularly the time we are talking about. Very frequently, the Board was made up of people who lived in affluent neighbourhoods and really didn’t honestly know the needs of the residents the way the Jane Finch people did. They knew their own neighbourhood; they knew their own needs. What was appealing was that they weren’t expecting me to raise money and give it to them or tell them what to do with it but rather to be helpful in how to approach a foundation, what a foundation was all about, how to approach a corporation, how to organize an event and how to build a circle of support.
So, the small committee that was established did those things and it was very satisfactory from all sides. That’s what led to the Friends of the Centre. This was an idea that came out of a small group who met and decided to invite people to a sandwich luncheon, not a big deal, and then have somebody from Jane Finch, one or more people, talk about some realities of Jane Finch. That was the beginning – it was Malcolm and Terry who pulled me in but I was kind of ready for it because I was aware of the neighbourhood from Child in the City.
Tell me more about the luncheons.
We would find somebody who was willing to host a luncheon at their house. It was kept very simple - it was not a party, it was not a big deal. I think there may have been on average 20 – 25 people who would attend (all women) and for that group of people, most of what they heard about Jane Finch and what it was like living in Jane Finch was a real eye-opener. If you don’t have the personal experience, you just don’t know.
I’ll give you an example. I remember being told that when the Children’s Aid Society was going to be visiting, this caused anxiety for the parents, the mothers. In order to look better than they were, they would borrow a table (they might have the chairs but not a table). They might not have a vacuum so they really couldn’t clean properly so they would borrow from somewhere and clean the apartment and have the table and chairs and look as though they were doing just fine with their children. For those of us who were attending the luncheon, the thought that you might have chairs but no table – how do you teach a child to sit at a table to eat a meal with acceptable table manners? These children might otherwise be eating on a chair or on the floor in front of a TV but they didn’t have a table to sit at! And, if the apartment wasn’t sparkling clean and you don’t own a vacuum, it’s pretty hard to get it clean.
So, there were lights going on all over the place in terms of “oh, okay!” Out of those experiences, the Jane/Finch Centre decided start a lending library of toys and household tools. So, you could actually borrow as if you were taking a book from the library - a vacuum or even a hammer or a small ladder. If money’s tight, you don’t have it left over to buy those things and you might not have them on hand. The outcomes were practical but at the same time they made a difference to people’s lives. So, I think that the value of the luncheons was to have people understand the daily challenges of poverty and they would donate money or identify new sources of money, for example from their church group or some connection they had. They knew how the money was going to be spent and what it was needed for and the people who spoke from the agency, were very forthright and honest about the situation It was a source of a great deal of learning and it was a two way street.
One of the things people with money complained about was, and I still complain about and so do others, is once you donate to anything they then send you 2, 3 or 4 letters a year – an Easter appeal, a Christmas appeal, a Thanksgiving appeal, whatever and they inundate you. The working committee decided that Jane/ Finch Centre would say from the outset that we would only ask you once a year and stay with that so if people knew they gave a donation which was generally just before Christmas, that they will not be pestered for another year and the money wasn’t going to be wasted with sending out mailings which is one of my pet peeves with many, many agencies. It’s what they spend on gigantic mailings that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. If I’m making a donation to an agency, I’d like them to spend it on the real need that they are trying to meet but not on postage or on extravagant gifts. So, right from the outset, Jane Finch did not send out any address labels or Christmas cards or anything else. It was a simple appeal of this is what we’re doing and would you help us?
At the end of each luncheon, one of the women would offer to host the next luncheon at their house and invite their group of friends to the luncheon. I’ve forgotten how many we had all together but I would think that over a period of time, we had 5 or 6 which brought in more people and introduced people to Jane Finch and people would have a better understanding of how difficult it was living in an isolated area – those buildings were built up there with little supports. They didn’t have the kind of facilities that other neighbourhoods had. So, it was a good education for people not to be critical of people who were living on social assistance and thinking that they weren’t doing what they should be doing.
They learned that if you live on the 10th floor of a high rise you may not take your children out to play – they can’t go out by themselves so they don’t get the outdoor exercise that other children who live in a house with a backyard do. And, things like safety - if you have a baby and a 4 year old and you want to take the 4 year old out to play, you have to get the baby dressed up in a snow suit so that you can take your child out to play where there would be some supervision – it’s not that easy! So, from the luncheons, you don’t feel so critical of people for not getting up, getting dressed and getting everybody outside. And, there were children in apartment buildings who didn’t use stairs – not only in Jane Finch but in other places where they were living in high-rises where the children were so accustomed to elevators that they didn’t know how to negotiate stairs until they were much older. So, there are things you don’t even think about when living in another part of the city.
Please tell us how you were able to bring Polka-Dot Door and Polka Roo to our community.
Well, that was one of the easier ones because my son Jed MacKay was a writer and musician who wrote songs and scripts and later was either the producer or director. So, we had an entree. Polka Dot Door was on TV Ontario as a high quality show for pre-schoolers and it had a huge following from children. I think you would find that even today, many people would remember Polka Dot Door! And, Polka Roo who didn’t say anything. So, that was through my connection with my son Jed and they were doing outreach anyway so it was not so difficult.
We were able to have a Saturday afternoon live performance and as I recall, that was the learning lesson for putting on an event. The whole point was finding a location, in this case at the community centre, deciding a fair price for the tickets and selling them, getting sponsors and all the pieces that went into organizing an event.
Plus there were other learning lessons in terms of corporate fundraising. For example, Xerox used to have an office over at Eglinton and Don Mills and I knew the person who was in charge of their donations. He said to me one time (and if you are a fundraiser, you listen to these things), they basically give nationally and to some extent, provincially but they reserve about 5% for what they consider to be for their own neighbourhood. That struck me as an interesting little bit of information. We weren’t national or provincial but later when their offices moved to Yonge Street and Finch - the fellow’s name was Peter Brophy, I called him and said, “Peter, now that you are up at Finch, would Jane and Finch be your neighbourhood?” Then the usual answer was, “so, what are you after?” I told him that the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre really, really badly needs a photo-copier, they had an old Gestetner for making copies of things – they really needed a copier. He asked to find out what they would do with it and how it would improve their neighbourhood. So, really, all I had to do was to open a door. If I could just get one foot in the door, the beautiful part of working with staff at Jane Finch was that they picked up the ball and ran with it.
They were able to say that they would help people with their resume’s so that they could apply for jobs – they have to have a good looking resume. They could put out a newsletter for people in the buildings because they were frequently isolated. There might be a summer barbeque or something but it was hard to get the word out about what is happening so that people could participate. They thought up all the ways to use the new Xerox machine plus what they would do with the old one. For instance, there might be a smaller organization who could use a Gestetner as what they were doing was not so difficult.
Then, having put in the application, Xerox came through with a new machine, staff took pictures of everyone standing around the machine in awe and delight with their new machine, wrote Peter with a sincere thank you because he had also provided paper and the extra equipment that came with the Xerox (toner) – 2 years’ worth. Jane Finch followed through with the thank you that was above and beyond the form letter and that gave them an ongoing contact with Xerox.
The whole process of fundraising is to find a corporation that has a reason to be interested in something that you may do in your neighbourhood and if they were to contribute, what you would do with the money and then make sure you follow through with an appreciation and awareness for them that this was a really good place to have made a donation. That was the teaching lesson for how to go to a corporation. Polka Dot Door was to learn how to do an event and the luncheons were starting a support circle. This was an advisory committee and this was how they were able to be helpful. But, also Jane Finch Centre was the most willing student and as a group, they listened, they paid attention, they did what was suggested and followed through. It was a very satisfactory working arrangement – very satisfactory.
What do you feel you got out of doing this kind of work?
It’s rewarding. I’m sure it’s rewarding if you are a teacher – Jane/Finch staff were prepared to listen and to learn and we had some knowledge and experience that we hadn’t even thought about particularly, so transferring that knowledge was rewarding. Now, I remember, for example that you (Wanda) were invited to participate in a workshop or a one day event at the Centre for Philanthropy. The Centre paid for that and said that if you take part in this, you then have to spread this information and share it with others. So, one of the things to talk about was Foundations. If you are not in the world of people having Foundations – the word means nothing – it might sound like the basement of a house! So, after you were trained, you (Wanda) organized a workshop and asked me if I would come and do a segment on Foundations. I remember the whole experience because we had a lot of agencies from the area who came – I would guess about 50 people or whatever it was but they were eager to learn.
I remember thinking, how do you explain a Foundation? So, I said to four people in the front row – let’s pretend that you bought a lottery ticket as a group and you won a lot of money – you won $500,000. Then you had to decide what to do with it, how you were going to share it? You decided that each of the agencies would have $100,000 but you would put $100,000 in the bank. And that would not be spent – you would keep that $100,000 and that would be your endowment money – the investment for the Foundation. Then you make it known that you are going to donate to other agencies the interest on that money, the money you earn on the endowment and once that word gets out you are going to get applications and requests from all kinds of different agencies. The decision makers have to realize that that people are very hungry and they need money for food – that’s pretty basic and pretty emotional and very easy but if for example like the Xerox machine, it’s a piece of equipment you need – a piece of machinery, how do you hope to get funding for it unless you turn that machine into a human interest story? I suggested that you tell them about the things the machine would do that had a human touch to it. That is at least how you would get into the running. But it explained in fairly simple terms exactly the way in which a Foundation works.
They have endowment money either from an individual or whatever, they then establish a Board of Directors who have to go through the requests – decide which ones are the most urgent, legitimate and practical and work out a system for how the people will report back on what they did with the money. That was the basic session that I remember about Foundations and from that eventually came the connection between Jane Finch and the G.H. Wood Foundation. They were a new foundation and they were just learning their way in terms of being a Foundation and they hadn’t had a whole lot of contact. I happened to know 2 people who were there, one of them working and the other on the Board. Sam Tughan was the staff person. He decided that the best thing to do was to have a visit to see where Jane Finch was, what is it, what are the houses like, what are the buildings like? Jane Finch Centre arranged for a mini bus tour and showed them what the neighbourhood looked like and what there was and wasn’t in terms of facilities. That introduction to that foundation became very important – hugely important to them and to the agency by later providing 5 years of funding to develop and support “Women Moving Forward”, the award winning program that changed the lives of many young women and their children.
For me, it’s seeing the link-ups, seeing the connections and to some extent being a good sales person, if it’s something that I believe in. I can’t do it if I don’t think it is a good agency that is really honourable and honest about what they were doing. If I thought they were frittering away the money on silly things or something – I’ve never ever seen that. It had to be that I could trust the agency to spend the money wisely, that they would follow through and keep the connection with the Foundation to let the them know what they were doing because for many, many Foundations…you know the poem – “I shot an arrow in the air, it fell to earth, I know not where.” People receive money but they neglect to follow through and let the donor know what happened to the money – what they did with it, what it meant to people. The giver and the receiver need to have sort of a bond of participation with each other – we can help you with this and we can help you with that but if both meet and talk to each other, then we’re both happy.
I remember, I also introduced you to a wonderful individual (Grant Burton) and a wonderful link to his corporation. He was a quiet man with a philanthropic intent but also, I had been on a Board with him and he was probably the most astute and most involved in a way of bringing his business acumen to this Board of Directors. He wasn’t always popular because he asked the hard questions that people didn’t want to hear about and he asked you some really hard questions! He had been helpful to me in a couple of other situations where I went to him for some advice about something and so when I spoke to him about Jane Finch, he, as an Engineer by training, said he would like to meet with us. He wanted to see if there was somewhere that he could be helpful. And, he became very involved, very demanding in his own way (not angry) but he couldn’t help unless he understood the information he needed which required the agency to do not just soul searching but number crunching, analysis and out of that, I think the agency itself learned a whole lot more about who they were, what it was doing, how it was doing it and was there a better way to do it.
He was, in my mind, an invaluable contact so a lot of what you do is by chance because you’re moving in the circles. I was on the Board of agencies and I was also on the Board of Foundations so I was seeing it from both ends and if I was on the Board of a Foundation, and an agency sent in a one-page request because they had forgotten all about that they had to do something and by the way, we need $15,000 – would you please give it to us, you realize that that’s not going fly, if they were sloppy. Just because you go and ask a Foundation because they have some money, they aren’t going to give it to you if the reason you need it is because you are running your agency so badly! The beautiful part about Jane Finch was that I know of no connection that I ever made or with any other members of the committee where Jane Finch as an agency did not measure up to their piece of the requirements. They had to participate in a way of not presenting themselves as inept or incompetent so it had to be, when I say satisfaction, it’s rewarding. In many cases, I was just the go between. I think if I try and analyse what I have done in this case and some others is that I see connections, I meet people and I talk with them and I’m not all the while looking for people who I can somehow squeeze money out of but it’s very satisfactory if the donor does indeed feel that this was a very worthwhile experience and they know they did more than just give you money. In Grant’s case, he gave you a lot of time. He was patient and you were willing learners.
A lot of non-profits are struggling to survive these days and neighbourhoods, particularly neighbourhoods like Jane Finch, have to fundraise to supplement their funding for programs and services. What are your thoughts on this – whose responsibility is it to help lift people out of poverty?
One of the difficulties I think is that it’s such a long-term process. If a family, or many families are struggling, they are weighted down with just trying to meet their everyday needs. It’s very hard to step out of that and begin to change their lives and change the lives of their children. Media has, by and large, never been terribly kind to the Jane Finch community. They have said some good things but on the other hand, if you say Jane Finch to the average person in Toronto, they are going to think crime and they are going to think poverty. They don’t think about people who are really trying their level best to make a go of a very difficult situation and would dearly like to be able to be contributing, not just taking. Over and above that, that’s not just Jane Finch, it’s an attitude.
I recall a study, called Transitions” that was done by George Thomson about poverty across the province and how social assistance should be regarded. George told me at that time, in talking to people from one end of the province to the other, what really impressed him was how badly people wanted to be self-sufficient, wanted to be independent, wanted the dignity of looking after their own needs and their own families and a very, very few people were not willing to make the kind of effort needed or even had the education or the mental capacity to know what to do. My feeling is that you can look at any profession you want – you can look at lawyers, you can look at clergy and doctors, there are always going to be some who are greedy and are not doing their job the way they should. There will never be 100% perfect people and there aren’t any that I have ever encountered. Jane Finch and other neighbourhoods like it, probably have a very high percentage – I’m going to guess maybe 90% who would really like to get out of this pit of poverty and be able to have the satisfaction of knowing they were self-sufficient. And, knowing they were not dependent on clarity.
Part of what you are trying to do is to change attitudes and that doesn’t happen overnight. If people would come and visit the youth centre, one of the things the luncheons did was to at least get a few people to listen to what was being done. I recall that Jane Finch had a group of single moms whose shopping experience was convenience stores. I don’t believe there was a big grocery store within walking distance or anywhere to get good bargains. They were buying their vegetables and groceries to the extent to which they had the money, in a 24 hour corner store where the prices were going to be higher. If there was a sale that came along – let’s say hamburger was going to be on at a really good price, they didn’t have extra money to stockpile and buy some extra hamburger at the low price and they didn’t have a place to store it – they didn’t have a freezer. The average person in the city doesn’t even think of somebody who couldn’t buy the hamburger while it was on cheap and why don’t they do that – they don’t have any extra money! So, bargains don’t really help poor people – bargains help people who are affluent and they can stock up with the good prices.
In the program, the women go shopping and they buy vegetables and come back to the Centre. They then make a healthy nutritious soup which they then sit down at a table together and learn some of the social skills of a family sitting at a table and eating the meal together. There was a whole layer of teaching from the nutrition, to the price of the vegetables, to the cooking of how to make the good soup. Those were some of the things that would register with me – how were you ever going to be able to teach everybody this. You can do small groups but it’s the idea of being able to have the funds, space, personnel, etc., it’s a huge challenge. The whole thing of who’s responsible politically – you know the book “Everything I needed to know, I learned in Kindergarten”? One of them is to learn how to wash your hands, another is to share your toys and really what the Centre of Philanthropy was trying to do was to teach people to share their toys and at the other end of the scale – I happen to be a huge admirer of Bill Gates and his wife Melinda. They are trying to get other people who have mega amounts of money as they do to do worthwhile things with it rather than to buy another yacht or whatever someplace. I think they have over 127 billionaires now in their billionaire club. They can take on something like completely wiping out polio and malaria – they think in huge amounts. In Jane Finch, you have to think in teaspoons or a tablespoon in comparison to the other ones.
I think you still have to try to the extent that you can, and it’s hard to do, to establish that the people you are serving are not lazy. This is not of their own doing and in most cases, perhaps they have never had the opportunity to get an education or may have language difficulties, mental health issues – it’s all very well to say to pull up your socks – the old British way – that’s all very well for someone to say who is fine and has 3 meals a day but to think it applies to everybody – there is a kindness and a generosity. I do know many, many people who are generous and who don’t expect a thank you all over the place but they do like to help someone who is trying to help themselves. It think there is a lasting enigma to know who is responsible. But, I do think you have to provide the opportunities for education.
What the government does need to do is to ensure that every child has an opportunity to have an education that will allow them to become self-sufficient. That’s hard to do but if you read about Aboriginal people right now – what is allowed per student for children on the Reserve is much less than for a child who lives in Toronto. That’s wrong – somebody has to speak up about those things that they can see are not fair. Don’t get angry if the unemployment is high if you have never given someone an opportunity to have an education in the first place – to know a way to make a living. I wish I had a real answer to your question!
Do you have any fond memories or one memory that you would like to share?
Well, I did go to University which I was privileged to do. I have a degree in Commerce but of course, in my generation (I graduated in 1945 in Vancouver), girls generally got an education in case they didn’t get married because the expectation was not that you were going to be working – the expectation was that you would be married and have children. Therefore, in most cases, once we got married, our husbands didn’t want us to work! Everybody was a stay at home Mom. The person who was unusual was the woman who was working, except when it was war time and people could look at it differently. I got a degree in Commerce, promptly got married, had 3 children under age 2 (twins) and moved to Toronto so I was in a whole new situation. Once the children were in school and by that time, I was 30, I basically had daytime hours to do something. But I wanted to be home at lunchtime and be home after school. That’s how most of us got into volunteer work. We had the time available, we had the education, we had the will and desire and incentive to want to do something worthwhile so when I look to when I graduated in 1945, moved here in 1949, I had the opportunity and satisfaction to pick and choose what interested me. So now, I think…so what did I do? Sometimes, I think I did a bit of this and a bit of that and a bit of something else and it was all a big package of confetti! There were a few, we mentioned Terry Lee earlier – Terry also got me interested in Dixon Hall. Initially, it was the Dixon Hall Music School and later, the agency itself. So, we’ll give Terry 2 gold stars!
With Jane Finch and Dixon Hall, I had a long term….more than just an affiliation but a partnership. The worst for me is being referred to as sort of lady bountiful or something awful – that to me is a very pejorative term – don’t like it at all. But however, I like to think that I made a difference somewhere along the line and there are a few agencies where I think I was the right person at the right time and at the right place. There were some that didn’t work out – there were some where I didn’t like the way they were doing things. I didn’t think it was honest and I wouldn’t ask people for money for them because I knew how they were functioning. And, there were some that were big like the Hospital for Sick Children where I spent 15 years on the Board. It was fascinating, I learned a lot, I think I contributed but it wasn’t so significant that someone would say that had I not been on that Board, it would have been different. Sometimes, there were attitudes. When I first went on the Board – there was one other woman on the Board along with about 22 men. Over a period of time and having to be patient, we were able to change attitudes. But, however, it takes time and you can’t really say, “Well, I did this or I did that”.
One likes to think that whether it’s your volunteer career or professional career, a doctor or nurse or a teacher or whatever, you must be able to look back and realize that you know a good teacher influences lives. I remember some of my teachers from elementary school. I have an interest in a school in Vancouver now, particularly with their library because most of the children have English as a second language and reading and language are terribly important. But then I remember a teacher that I had in grade 3 who read to us on Friday afternoons and that was probably 80 or more years ago. She would never know at that time that she was influencing children in terms of the importance of books, reading and language. It’s not that you can usually measure it or to try and necessarily measure it – it’s rewarding to think that you did make a difference, you know that you were in a fortunate position to be able to do it. If I had had a severely handicapped child that I was at home with 24/7, I wouldn’t have done any of the things that I have done. I was in a very fortunate position where I had the education, the wish and desire and the interest in being involved and learning because I like to work someplace where I was also learning. The Jane Finch Centre definitely filled a niche for me that was rewarding, satisfying and with no regrets.