Dalton came to the community in August of 1980 as a Community Chaplain with the Mennonite Church to work at 15 Tobermory Drive. Dalton stayed until 1997. As of May, 2011, Dalton is retired, active in his community and living in Scarborough.
How did you become involved in the community of Jane and Finch?
Going back to 1966, we had moved into the city and I started working in the Warden Woods community in Scarborough - in preschool work, youth work and eventually that became kind of a community worker position come chaplaincy with some pastoral care opportunities. It was about thirteen years later when I was approached by the Mennonite Church who paid my salary, asking if I would be open to looking at the possibility of an assignment of some kind in the Jane Finch community. We had been hearing in those days and talking about the fact that there were many, many people in that community, there were fewer programs to serve that community and so the question was, “Does the church have some responsibility to be a presence in that community?” After thinking about it for a bit, I responded that I would be willing to explore it.
I had a good relationship with Ontario Housing officials and talked a little bit to them too because if we were going to be coming to that community, space would be an issue; where would one locate, etc. We also asked the question, not only of housing but of people like yourself Wanda and other workers in the community, if there was one part of the Jane Finch community that perhaps more of a presence was needed than another. If so where would that be? And everyone we talked to said that there are twenty-five floors at 15 Tobermory, there isn’t much happening but there could potentially be, and so that was kind of a signal. To make a long story short, I was then invited by Housing to locate at 15 Tobermory and they provided a little office on the first floor. I talked to a number of people about what capacity I should go in; and it was very interesting to hear the response from the Chaplain at Sick Kids. I was taking a seminar with him and I asked him the question. He said to me: “If you go into a community saying that you are a mechanic, they will bring their broken cars to you. However, if you go in saying that you are here as a Pastor or as a Chaplain, they may bring their broken lives.” And that’s how I chose to go. It was my passion to try to walk along side people in their pain and in their joy – just to be a listener, to offer an arm of support, a hand of friendship, a voice of encouragement, and in the first weeks that I was there, I just introduced myself as a Community Chaplain and to some people, I needed to explain what that was. I remember sitting outside one day, having lunch in one of the first weeks I was there. I sat on a blanket and I was eating my lunch and some of the kids I had gotten to know were sitting out in the back with me and wondered what I do. So I talked about when someone was ill, I would go to the hospital to visit them, if they were lonely and didn’t have family I would have a conversation and offer friendship. And, one little girl asked: “If I was in the hospital would you come visit me? I said, sure I would. I would have to find out from somebody that you were there and she said: “I go to Sick Kids all the time because I have some problems.” It was the beginning of a relationship building endeavour. It was to become an incredible opportunity to get acquainted and to find out what people’s passions were, their dreams, their disappointments and there were disappointments. Many people who lived there said: “We’re not here because it’s our choice, we’re here because it’s affordable, we didn’t have any other options.” So, that’s kind of how I got to 15 Tobermory.
Do you remember what was doing on in the community, city or province at that time?
I remember being somewhat unnerved by reading the book Cries from the Corridor which had just been published. I kept thinking to myself, perhaps those things happen in a school or in a community everyday but the way in which it was written, there was a sense of hopelessness and it sounded as though these kids got into serious trouble every moment of the day, every day of the week, every time they went into the classroom and it was a bit overwhelming actually and I was feeling a sense of optimism saying okay, what do I have to find out here in order to know what reality is. So, what I did was talk to the local agencies, at least the ones I became aware of, I talked to local church leaders at least some of them, not all of them shared my passion about being in the community.
I remember talking to some principles in the schools. I tried to learn what the city was doing by way of Parks and Recreation and I got a sense that there were some good things happening, perhaps not enough but there were some good things happening that the city in general were not aware of. The press, even back in those days, tended to paint a pretty gloomy picture. They would pick up when anger resulted in fist fights or gun fire. They would pick up on Break and Entering when they were happening – that community tended to get more than its share of bad press. The newspapers, as they do today, picked up on stuff that was sensational and stuff that would sell papers. They didn’t tell about the good news of what was happening. I had not read very much about the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre and yet learned about the things that were happening there and the opportunities that were there. It was great to learn to know you Wanda because of your…not only your length of time in the community and your involvements, but what your passions were, what your dreams were for people of all walks of life who lived in that community, particularly those who had few resources, who were perhaps not always in economic poverty but were in relational poverty. And that could be a big one.
There were many people who said to me…”since I’ve moving into 15 Tobermory, my family won’t come to visit me because of my address. When I want to find a job, I can’t find employment because of my address. When I go to school, when my kids go to school, it almost feels like there address tells the school about something they can expect.” That seemed terribly unfair. I learned from people like you Wanda that municipally, provincially and federally some very bad decisions had been made and were continuing to be made. Available land was sold off because of its availability to governments who wanted to provide subsidized housing but didn’t have the money to build in the social infrastructure that was required to handle the kind of needs that would emerge because of this kind of poor decision-making. So, that was kind of the handle that I started to get in what was happening in the community.
Tell me about some of your involvements while working in the community.
It was fairly soon, I would say in the first year or so after arriving at 15 Tobermory that I learned to know some adults well enough and talk to them at length. They began to express some of the things they felt could happen, should happen, that they would like to see for their children. One was socializing in safe places, the other was going on out-trips, the other was having a little store. We charted some of these things as we started asking people “If we had this space at the end of the hall, on the first floor that is now being used by a private day care that isn’t serving that many people, what would you dream of doing there?” All kinds of creative ideas came forward. They talked about a lending library, they talked about a pre-school opportunity for their children, they talked about youth programs, and they talked about space for groups, for women’s groups to meet. And as I began to hear this stuff, I encouraged them to share it with staff from Jane/Finch Centre because that is who we worked with more closely initially. Things began to really take shape in terms of a mindset that said, “We need that space.”
I had the kind of relationship with housing officials where I could take that chart downtown to Bloor Street and roll it out and say, this is what this community of 1,200 people really need and this is what they have. This is the space that is not being fully utilized that should really be given back to the residents who live there. We could go about it politically or we could go about it relationally. I said, “We believe that you Betty Nidrey have the kind of compassion and social conscious for a community like this and you can make this happen and we’d like to leave it with you.” Within three weeks, she sent a letter saying that when this day care’s term was up, that it would come to the community for use. That was one of the early moments of celebration within that community. It just seemed like the right moment to do something.
There were some church groups where women have a sewing circle in Mennonite Churches throughout Ontario and I talked over this need with Hubert and June Swartzentruber who were the Mission Consultants at the time. We decided for Christmas that year, would make this new activity centre the focus of some gift-giving. There were a couple thousand dollars that came in and with that money we bought initial furniture for what is now Tiny Tots space in that building. The initial table and chairs, paint easels, things like that were really important so that when we were meeting down there with groups or discussions or whatever, we could provide childcare and the kids had something to do. As this unfolded, we set up a library and created a meeting place as a chapel for when people wanted to have a ceremony of some kind. We had memorial services in this space and we had some weddings in there and once a month initially, we met for worship – open to anybody - it was an ecumenical service. We enjoyed singing, it was quite informal, we really enjoyed coffee and cake afterwards and that became a little hub of a faith community there. In other parts of the facility there were Women’s Activity Groups, discussion groups, there were teens that met for drop-in and of course, Jane/Finch Centre was instrumental in providing some staff. Eventually a Tiny Tots Program, supported by trained staff from the Centre was started, and that was a real plus because without staff with some ECE training, it’s really difficult to run a program for little ones. They also provided leadership for women’s groups.
It’s important to talk about is the Thrift Shop. One of the seniors said, with reference to the stuff that came in from churches and individuals who wanted to make donations: “Too bad we can’t have a little store.” So we said, why not? There was a little space there that seemed ideal that Toronto Housing was using for storage on the first floor so we convinced them that we really needed that space. And so, a little Thrift Shop was set up and that became a very popular place. People from all walks of life would bring clothing, they’d bring household items, sometimes we would hold a larger item sale on a thrift shop day when we had furniture coming in and we’d have a silent or live auction so that people who needed a bed or a chest of drawer or a sewing machine or a coffee table or end tables, whatever, they could buy them for a very reasonable cost.
We also had a food-lending cupboard and we worked it on an honour system where we said, this isn’t a food bank per say where you just come and take because that makes people feel like they are on the receiving end. We sort of said….”if you run short of money by the end of the month, before your cheque comes, why you don’t take what you need and when you get your cheque, if you want to put back into the cupboard what you have taken or part of what you have taken that would be great, but there is no obligation. Feel free to do that, if that feels better for you and many people chose to do that.” Some people would go to the food bank and they would have some items, depending on their culture, that they didn’t really eat so they would contribute those to the food bank. It just sort of unfolded. We didn’t use the word capacity building in those days. It’s more a word or concept that was used and talked about and implemented after my time there but I think in many ways, that’s what we were doing.
We were saying to people who moved into the community, (and who had stated clearly that they were only here a short time and would then be moving) “What do you need from this community while you are here and what could you contribute?” because that was often an issue when we got into discussion. They said, “We don’t have a lot of confidence and a self-worth because we’re never asked to contribute to anything. We’re seen as those people who are takers but have nothing to give.” What we discovered was that they had many good ideas - to sit on committees, to sit on steering groups, to offer opinions. A number of our residents were on the first steering committee that implemented Conflict Mediation Services of Downsview for example and made a valuable contribution. There were other times when people in Tobermory were tapped on their shoulders to say, would you mind coming to this, would you mind giving a word about this, would you mind having your opinion expressed around this matter. I remember one of the men saying, “This is the first time I’ve ever been asked for my opinion and I felt like it counted. I mattered to somebody; I mattered for something. Do you have any idea of how that makes me feel?” He said it with a lot of feeling and this was an older man.
There was another occasion when an idea was prompted by a conversation around a hospital bed with a senior who was turning eighty. I asked her, “Are you going to have a party” and she said, “A party…I don’t have any family here. I can’t remember the last time anyone has had a party for me.” So, when she came home from the hospital, another senior who loved to bake, baked a cake, we got together, we sang happy birthday, and we cut the cake and had a delightful time. That was the beginning of a once a month celebration for everybody who had birthdays that month, whether they were 3 months or 83 years. It was a delightful community building kind of event. I have some very good memories of those times and some pictures that show the incredible delight of the people who were there blowing out their candles and receiving greetings and made to feel as though someone cares.
You also played a community development role. Can you tell me how you started such things as the Tobermory Community Activities Council?
What happened was that there were a group of people who started talking about their dreams, goals and desires. And we said, “Why don’t we form a council of some kind.” This would be a group that meets on a regular basis to make decisions about use of space, to decide where the gaps are, who we needed to bring in to do what, a group to help with homework and to find out what was happening in the community that we could access here. That council was a group of volunteers who just came together and began meeting and working and of course working through some personality issues too. Once you haven’t had any power or any clout and you get into that position, you enjoy it. Sometimes, more weight gets put onto that according to one person’s need than we sometimes recognize so there were issues to work through by way of hearing each other out and speaking with care, listening with care so that everyone’s opinion mattered. It became obvious after some time that my role as Chaplain was extending to that of community development, not that I saw myself as a community developer but as a kind of catalyst to link people and to be in touch with community organizations and agencies who would have something to offer, whether it was public health or recreation.
There were agencies serving children in the community and I know that periodically, I’d be asked by agency workers who were involved in the community if they could use my office one day a week to meet with my clients who lived here. That worked out really well. Anyway, we needed a coordinator; we needed somebody to pull loose ends together and that’s where Norma Reesor McDowell who lived in the Markham area – actually she was living in the city at that point as her husband was going to York University. Norma came in almost full-time to work as a coordinator and that took an incredible load off me and it left me free to do more visiting, just to spend some time and not to be so rushed. She was an angel. She too worked closely with agencies and organizations, particularly Jane Finch Centre to try to think through how we might use space and resources and bring those together with the needs that were being expressed in the community and make it happen. At one point, after she left, another person came in for a short time and following that, Joanna Reeser-McDowell came in and worked for another 8 or 10 years in the capacity of Community Coordinator. Each of those persons brought their unique skill sets and related well to the residents. In terms of coordinating skills and being able to work as a team, I felt like the team we had going there really spoke loudly to the larger community about what was possible. I remember times when Norma and Wanda, Peggy Edwards and myself would be asked by other groups in the community, sometimes by Church groups to sit with them, to meet with them and tell them what works, why it works and what to do in order not to reinvent the wheel if this kind of model was to work in some other kind of other community, like Firgrove. I remember spending long hours in what was called the Jane Finch Ecumenical Ministry Advisory Committee, working to see what things we could do to work in common and how we could learn from each other, what things we did very differently, how things gelled in working relationships. That has continued to this day to a greater or lesser extent. Sometimes the focus changes, people change, staff change, etc.
It was the Mennonite Church who was approached by the United Church. They took note of some of the community building initiatives at 15 Tobermory and were eager to discuss how they could implement something with the United Church’s resources in the Firgrove community. Those were good discussions and we were enriched by that discussion too. Of course, when you have something happening where there is some excitement and when residents are free to talk about ways in which they have grown and developed and have gone back to school or taken a job or whatever, there is all kinds of interest so there were many requests from church groups throughout Ontario, asking if they might come and see what’s happening. The other piece of this is my salary was getting paid by the Mennonite Churches of Ontario and sometimes you see that item on a budget line at an annual meeting of the Mennonite Conference and people are curious about what their money doing? Is it worth it? Shall we continue to put that money in for a Chaplain, for example? And so, some of it was public relations within the church community as well and we were always very happy to do that. To say, yes – God is working in spite of our being here because God was here long before we arrived. It was wonderful to do that.
Let me back up a bit….when I talk of churches, and say that the Floradale Mennonite Church in the Elmira area, north of Waterloo, became a kind of partner church to 15 Tobermory. Going back to ’81, the summer of ’81, we began to have an exchange. They would invite a bus load of us to come up for a weekend in June and we in turn, because it was supposed to be mutual, would invite them down on a Sunday afternoon in December and do some singing and do some talking and have some wonderful food – food from many cultures. They would bring dessert along down, we would do a pre-Christmas program and that’s the way relationships began to grow, and some of those exist to this day and that partnership exists to this day. I would add Hidden Acres Camp as one of the resources with whom we formed a very close partnership. The directors at that time back in the 80’s were Brenda and Gary Leis and I remember them saying to me and Norma, “Would you come up and meet with us and talk to us about how we could be a resource at this camp that we’re running up near Shakespeare.” (that’s this side of Stratford) I recall that you Wanda were a part of that conversation at Hidden Acres Camp. To put things into perspective, one of the little girls who went to one of those first moms and kids camps as a 3 year old, is now working in an educational program here in the City and is taking the students from her education program, Pathways to Education in Regent Park. Roxanne is taking her kids up to Hidden Acres. Roxanne is now married and has her own child and is involved in downtown Toronto. When you think of things like relationships being so critical and of those early childhood experiences being so enriching, here is a young women who sent a card recently to say: “I’ve just come back from Hidden Acres with a group of students from the Pathways to Education program and they just loved it the way I loved it for many years.”
The Anglican Church also got involved based on the work you were doing at Tobermory and the United Church was doing in Firgrove. Tell me about that?
I remember meeting the rector at St. Stephens in my early years in the Jane/Finch community. Rev. Jim Garland was very supportive guy and we would have lunch once in a while. In the years that followed Tim Grew came there as pastor and the relationship with that church continued. They would have some special focus at their church and they might ask me to come down to speak and talk to them about what was happening. I remember one time doing a series of Lenten meditations at. St. Stephens. It was particularly exciting was when Betty Jordan arrived. She was ordained as a priest in that church and she was a community activist type person – she walked the talk. I remember her offering candid opinions, helpful advice, asking all kinds of good questions as only Betty was able to do – no holds barred and making a difference by her presence because when she was there, when she was talking to a parishioner or a community resident it was like they were the only person in the room. She brought something special into our neighbourhoods and I experienced her as well as Tim Grew and Brad Lemon as very affirming of the work we were doing at 15 Tobermory as well. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. They also did work in the Chalkfarm community. Later on, when Betty was ordained, she went over to the Flemingdon community and for a number of years, and had a very significant ministry.
The community faces many issues today. When you were working at Tobermory, what were some of the issues?
The first thing that comes to mind when I think about the community impact was Mike Harris government cutting the allowance that young moms were getting. I remember some of those young women coming down to my office and to a discussion group we had in the chapel, literally crying and saying things like: “We now have to decide if its fresh fruits and vegetables for our kids or shoes.” I had never observed that kind of impact from a political and economic decision and I will never forget what that did. We talked at length and shared some tears around how to best respond to that; how do we try to get a handle on this so that we could be really supportive in ways that matter and not just talk. We tried to find ways to provide moral and practical support, things like bringing in fresh vegetables from gardens out in the country, going to a bakery every Thursday and bringing a car load of donated bread. We tried to do little things that would help stretch budgets and some of the folks who were in touch with our friends in Floradale. There were opportunities for not only that church community but also the Markham/Stouffville community to come through with vegetables in the fall time of the year when gardens were growing. I remember Joanna coming in with a car full of corn and other fresh vegetables on Thrift Shop Day. Residents were delighted to pay a dollar a dozen; they wanted to feel like they were paying their way but any little thing that would stretch the budget was always appreciated.
I mentioned the poverty of relationships. I think the thing I was aware of is the impact for people of all ages; from seniors, single folks (men and women), to families moving in from war-torn countries, to teenagers, to preschoolers, what it meant to move into a new community, and this high-rise building was a larger community than the town closest to the farm where I grew up. Where I was raised we had an arena, we had a library, we had a little theatre in the community, we had a fairground, we had baseball diamonds and soccer fields, we had several schools and a whole bunch of churches, we had stores, and we had stuff that was accessible. Here, the streets and roads are four elevator shafts that carried 1200 + people to and from their one-two or three bedroom apartment, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week and if you are a mother on the 18th floor raising a 3 and a 5 year old, it’s not easy or simple to tell your children to go play in the backyard. I found that people were incredibly innovative in making the best of a situation that was not easy. Often these were parents, moms who had been abandoned by a partner or the partner ended up getting into trouble and couldn’t be there with them or the partner who they hoped would be a long-time partner in that family disappeared. So there were shattered relationships and broken dreams and heartfelt anger and grief around circumstances over which people had no control. I think the lack of control of things that affected everyday living was one of the major issues that I think of right now as something that sticks with me. People shared lots of confidential stuff. They didn’t have people to talk to. I remember the seniors talking that way and young moms. Young moms would often go to a group after the Jane/Finch Centre started a Women’s Groups and a lot of stuff could come out there where there was a social worker or a trained community worker who had the capacity to absorb what was happening and feel the impact of what was happening and to turn the question around to say, how could we help support you in bringing about the changes that you want to bring about whether it’s going back to university, a program you were very involved in (Bridging Program for Women) or whether it was taking a course at a community college or whether it was going back to school full-time, or help with getting childcare that’s affordable. We would often ask around the discussion table, “What are the things you dream about that have seemed insurmountable but that we can hopefully support you in doing or becoming.” I think trying to help people not lose sight of their goals was one of the things I put some energy into.
Let me add one other. Unresolved grief, I understand, is often at the core of three-quarters of the people who are in mental institutions. If I was serving as a pastoral presence in that high-rise for no other reason than to let people vent their grief or their anger and find ways, if there were ways, to deal with unresolved stuff and to bring closure to bad relationships and horrid experiences, that was reason enough to be there. That was something I was committed to above all else, because if you are struck with a life cycle of violence or hurt or unresolved issues relationally, there’s a poverty that grips you and works as a cancer within that won’t let you move on and become who you were meant to be.
Sometimes, you must have felt alone in your work. Were there other supports e.g. government, influential people, agencies that were responding to some of the issues?
Let me respond to the first question by saying that I can’t remember a day in those seventeen years when I was lonely. I always felt, as a person of faith, that God was present. I knew that I wasn’t alone. The other thing that I believe worked in my favour was that I went into the community with this attitude; there are needs here, but I suspect that on these 25 floors there are a whole bunch of people who are in a better position than I am to identify those needs; so let’s work together as a team and just do what needs to be done. Then we’ll go looking for the resources in the community, both the ones we know who have made themselves accessible and those that should be there but aren’t serving the community very well. So, we’ll encourage and push and we’ll pressure if need be but let’s see if we can together work at getting for this community what they deserve. I’ve mentioned Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre a number of times, I’ve mentioned Conflict Mediation Services, and there were other programs like PEACH. I can’t remember its predecessor. There were school related people and resources persons. I remember a Catholic Children’s Aid Community Worker (one of the best I have ever worked with), some public health folks, Dellcrest Children’s Centre in the later years. There were folks there who had good training, good background, sometimes the resourcefulness and resources that were needed to address a given need, and then there were volunteers.... from churches, people in the community who just said, this is what I can bring. Can I be useful? I remember a woman coming in from Markham to do needlework with local folks and there were others who wanted to learn how to sew. There were students who came in the afternoon once or twice a week to do tutoring with kids and for a number of years, there were people who came in to do music after school with some kids who wanted to learn how to play instruments. There were always resources out there. The politicians weren’t always accessible. My feeling was that we were a blimp on the map, municipally, but I can’t remember a lot of things specifically at 15 Tobermory that had on it the positive hand-print of a politician. I do remember Julian Fantino coming in when he was the head of 31 Division and blaming the people for the drug problem that existed and taking very little responsibility for the way in which police respond to community issues. I also recall that in later years you Wanda invited yourself to meet with officers to help sensitize them about how they approach situations where women were being abused and things like that. That was critical training that you did. I’m probably not remembering all the people who were resourceful. In the days when Metro Housing had community workers – Bernie, Terry, Vidoll, those were valuable relationships and I grieve the fact that those kinds of people do not have or do not play a similar role today in terms of being on hand, available, accessible to residents who are often frustrated. In my present job, in the Mayor Miller’s office, we do get calls from tenants who say: “You know what, I go up to the office to talk to the housing staff, and there’s two people in there playing solitaire on the computer. Do you think they want to hear about the needs I have in my apartment – no, not on your life.”
Jane Finch is very diverse today. What was the make-up of the community back then and what challenges did you have in engaging people from the diverse community?
I remember one time sitting at a community meeting – an interagency meeting and at one point during the meeting, I started making a list of the people – the families that I was in touch with at Tobermory because you don’t get to know everybody in the same way. I made a list of where they came from, where their ancestors came from and there were 53 countries represented at that point. I know by now that the population has changed. In the days that I was there, there was still a significant number of Protestant and Catholic families who would access Chaplaincy services for pastoral care kinds of issues. There were people of some faith, no faith, persons who wanted to revisit their faith, etc. There were the people who I would see one-to-one, involved in chaplaincy services or they were involved in the Floradale exchange or in touch with families from the Markham and Stouffville communities. I related to the Muslim or Sikh families, for example in a different way. It was more casual, it was in the hallway, it was talking about their children’s school; it was even walking over to the school with a new family that had just moved in and introducing them to the principal of Driftwood Public School, things like that. I would frequently be invited to a special event in their homes as well, and developed good intergenerational relationships.
We also had valued volunteers – you’ll remember Din who was a volunteer. He was a Muslim man, a devout Muslim and I got to know his family quite well. I remember one of the touching moments in my life in the mid-90’s was when he came to me one day and gave me a big hug and said, “I’m so glad you are my brother.” It’s the kind of relationship I appreciated with the Muslim men in that community – those who I got to know. Of course, it’s a very different experience with Muslim women relating to a man and it’s critical to respect that. I was aware that they had opportunities to be involved in groups and in preschool or as staff of Jane/Finch Centre for example. Today, I don’t know what the make-up would be but I suspect there are more families from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, and Ghana than there were in the days when I was there.
I do remember having conversations with the family of a man that we tried to help start a business – we helped to collect some money and helped him buy a hot-dog machine. It didn’t get off the ground because he got beaten by some kids the first day he had it set up. That was a bit of a shattered dream for him. He was someone who said, “I feel ashamed to be living in this building with my three boys and my wife. My wife struggles with mental health issues, my boys are embarrassed to be living here because back home, I was an accounts receivable person with a corner office in Tehran and here I’m a nobody - I can’t even find a decent job to support my family, my kids are embarrassed, they’re ashamed of me. I don’t know why I came here. I was hoping it was a better life for my boys but all we talk about is how angry they are at me.”
I don’t know to what extent that has changed but I know another family that arrived here from Sri Lanka where the father had been a high-school teacher. He had to take retraining after he got here because of his lack of Canadian experience. There are many taxi drivers on our streets who were teachers and doctors back home, and the impact of being underemployed in our community has always been an issue that I know social agencies, more so than the churches, have sought to address.
What did you find challenging?
One of the early challenges I realized was to find out what kind of relationship I would have with the faith leaders in various local churches. I didn’t want to be perceived as somebody who was coming in as a threat to other denominations and so I attempted to get know those leaders and there were some very, very good folks - Jim Garland at St. Stephens, right from early on, the Lemons from the Presbyterian Church up the street were wonderful. I didn’t have the same kind of relationship with the local Roman Catholic Church down the street; I had a good relationship with the people from a United Church but it was east at Bathurst and Finch where I knew some folks. This congregation was most supportive all through the years I was at 15 Tobermory. Then of course, those who were on the Ecumenical Advisory Council came from different parts of the city and that was a constructive relationship. I remember going to a local church, one of the first weeks I was there in 1980, and meeting with the local pastor and saying, this is why I’m here and this is what I’m hoping to do. He caught me a bit off guard a bit by saying, “Wouldn’t you agree Dalton that when you look at a place like 15 Tobermory where you are working, that most of the people have ended up living there because of sin in their lives?” I was stunned for a moment…caught my breath and said, “You know, that hadn’t occurred to me. It had occurred to me that they might be living there cause of sin in mine, because we have a very difficult time as so-called Christian churches to find ways of leveling the economic playing field and providing opportunities where doors and windows have been slammed and I’m there to try to make a difference in that field.”
I realized after that conversation that there was room for both of us in the community because I heard folks living at 15 Tobermory saying: “We can’t go across the street to that church because you have to dress a certain way and you have to act a certain way and we feel like we’re being looked at with crossed eyes when we go in there.” So, alternatives were important. It was comments like that and a growing relationship of trust and confidence building with residents who wanted to revisit their spirituality that eventually led to Black Creek Faith Community being formed - an ecumenical group that met regularly in the chapel for worship. I think it’s now called Jane Finch Faith Community. At that point, the decision made by the group was to name it for the creek running behind 15 Tobermory. They felt that the name Black Creek in those days would have a positive ring to it and so we wanted to honour that.
One of the other challenges was to live and work day by day with the reality that I was privileged. I was a white married male with a job. I could depend on a pay cheque every week. I would go home at night and I didn’t live in the community. I would go home at night and dinner would be prepared. I could have a relatively relaxing and rejuvenating evening so that I could go back and do what needed to be done the next day. That was always a privilege and I never forgot that, but I was always aware that when I closed my office door at the end of the day and left, there were 1,200 people who didn’t have that choice. The high-rise at 15 Tobermory was their home. So when they talked the next morning about what happened in the hallway or the elevator shaft or in the rec room the night before or outside I had to listen with special sensitivity. That was a challenge.
What were you really proud of when you were working at 15 Tobermory?
I think the capacity building that was happening in that era. People were taking responsibility whether it was finances, simple bookkeeping that we did because we chose not to get incorporated. I am very proud of the fact that the community chose to put its energy into doing programming and that kind of thing and not reinventing the incorporation wheel since we had an organization like Jane/Finch Centre who was ready to be a trustee and take us under their wing. It really left us with great energy to put into other things. We didn’t have to do major fundraising for example like other groups had to do and I’m proud of the fact that the Mennonite Church has hung in there in support of the programs and the people; that they put in many of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last thirty years – that’s a lot of money and I don’t take that for granted. I’m very, very happy about that. I am so pleased to have been there and glad to be a part of that. It was an example of a pioneer program that kind of worked on some new edges and provided a new model when it comes to doing church in the community. I don’t like the words “doing church”, I like the words “being church” – just to be ‘a presence’ and to gather with other people who have the same needs and motives and dreams and simply work together. I’m proud of that. Some of the things that were most significant were ceremonies; memorial services which brought together families that had been estranged, brought in the hospital chaplain, the nurses from the hospital, community members. These events brought school officials, agency people and local friends together to honour and celebrate the life of someone who otherwise would have been a number and a statistic. They had a human face and when we would meet in the Chapel and we’d put together some props that recognized their life, it was very interesting, handwork, piles of books, recipe books and everything that he or she was kind of remembered for and by. We also had some marriage ceremonies take place there in the chapel. Deaths were sad experiences but this was a community that also needed an opportunity to gather and grieve, and to celebrate life and the contributions that someone had made. This then led us into another whole new area that I feel very positive about. I don’t know that proud is the right word but it started off, I think, on the road of beginning to look at things like living eulogies. We began celebrating each other stories while people could still smell the roses and that is one of the very happiest memories. We had a lot of Kleenex around the table when someone talked about what life was like when they were a little girl; how it like as a teenager, what some of the earliest memories they have of happy times, about the sad times; what was their first concept of God - was it a man or a woman; was it a school teacher, was it a Sunday school teacher; was it their mom or dad, your grandma or grandpa, was it a special friend. And then what all happened when trust was broken because that was often part of the story. So, those are memorable and cherished moments and I will hold them in my memory forever. I don’t think about them often but when you are sitting here and asking the questions, these things come to life again.
What did Jane Finch teach you or what did you learn from working in the community?
That’s an incredibly important question. It taught me to be very appreciative of what resources I had as a preschooler. We didn’t have much money as a family but I wouldn’t say that we were relationally poor. We could eat out of the garden, we had a church community, a faith community. There were people who I felt cared about me right from little on up. They were the people who when I was a teenager would say to me “Why don’t you think of doing thus and so in a service or have you ever given thought about this – you would be really good at that.” Someone who affirmed my musical abilities for example and the joy of singing is something that is ever with me. Back to your question: I learned to respect deeply people who are different from me. It was a new awareness that we come in all shapes and all stripes and from all walks of life and some of our moms taught us the very same things in different parts of the world. I found that fascinating, that those values and the values that we hold are deeply rooted; and that was a reinforced kind of thing in that community again – from all religions and cultures, from men and women. I think it was in that community that I had my first good relationship with lesbian couples, with women who had come out for the first time and whose families had deserted them but who had this partner who they loved dearly. I don’t think at that point I knew as many male couples who were partners but certainly a number of women partners and that was good learning for me. I could ask innocent questions because the kind of relationship we had afforded me the respect not to intervene and not to be inappropriate with my questions, simply to be innocent and honest and ask: “When did you first know that you were attracted to someone of your own sex as opposed to a guy?”…that kind of stuff. That was a good learning.
The other learning was in working with people like you. I’ve often described you Wanda as probably the best community organizer, the best community worker I’ve ever had the privilege of working with and I’m sure I’ve said that to you before and it bears saying again. The kinds of connection – what we did often in partnership around talking to other groups in the community with a shared vision of what can happen when the resources and needs come together and are addressed. You introduced me to all kinds of people, people who you had met through university and college connections, people who were teaching, people who were grassroots, community development types going way back when. I learned significant things from residents who were involved in politics about ways of doing things that are critical for a community. I had never had that awareness before.
I learned that a whole lot of folks from a whole lot of different cultures and backgrounds can live in relative harmony in the most unusual and stressful conditions and not only survive but thrive and to be present to walk along side of each other and be good neighbours.
What advice would you give to people doing similar work in the community today?
Listen very carefully to where the perceived gaps are. Become very aware of what others are doing in the community, agencies, community groups, churches, whoever – universities, colleges. Work closely in consultation with those people whom you have gone there to interact with, to determine where there may be gaps in service. If there are, how they can be met? If there are issues that aren’t being addressed, who is in the best position to address them? If there are politicians who aren’t being sensitive, let’s call them to the floor and meet with them and insist that some things need changing. Let us make effective use of the resources that exist in communications and make sure the community story is told in good ways, well, like you tell it in your books. The community stories need to be told! The good things that are happening also need press! I don’t believe that anyone can go into a community anymore and fly solo. You can do it if you don’t believe that you have anything in common with anybody else who’s doing anything good. If you insist that what you have to offer is the only answer, then you are going to appeal to a certain small group but it may not be owned. Whatever you are trying to do, your mission, your purpose, your reason for being, if it’s not owned by a significant number of people in the community where you have chosen to focus, it’s not going to fly effectively. And, if you are going in as a church-related person, see who else will own what you are trying to do. A ministry needs to be owned because there are all kinds of resources that can be tapped and used well but it should be a relational kind of venture, not a proposition. Test out the water around making connections; how are people envisioning their ties, their connections, their windows of opportunity. What are the gaps there that you might address? What is unique about what you are offering that deserves to be supported and that is going to make a difference in people’s lives? I’m sure there other things I will think about long after this interview is over!
Any other fond memories or comments you wish to add?
I remember those times when small groups of us would decide to take an afternoon off to do something we called, “Who cares for the caregivers.” I remember going out to a farm, I remember sitting down by a river, I remember going with a local church leader, Paulette Brown to the retreat centre that the Catholic sisters have behind St. Bernard’s Nursing Home (Finch and Dufferin). We sat on the bench beside the river and sang the songs (I took my guitar) our mothers taught us back home in Jamaica for her and for me, here in a small rural area. We had some similar songs taught to us. It was those times of getting away, of sitting down along the Black Creek on a blanket and sharing a potluck supper with other community workers, front line people, folks whose ideas of building each other up and building community up was forever a stretching episode and was so valued. That’s the kind of thing that we don’t make many notes about – I don’t think I journaled much in those days but I wish I had. Sitting there and talking about how we see ourselves ten years down the road. What will you do when you leave this community – will you leave this community – what happens then? Who are you grooming, who is walking with you and kind of looking at what’s happening and how they might fit in so that you can really leave your hand and foot prints here when you leave? Those are some of the things that come to mind immediately that I really value. Drives in cars, going to liberation theology seminars with Hugo and Doreen Neufeld, community workers and residents, poor and not so poor, those who have some and those who have little standing across from each other singing, Oh Healing River. It was amazing to break bread together often with folks coming from very different places, sharing recipes was something that I will also value. Eating foods from other countries; never before had I tasted some wonderful dishes that I tasted in those seventeen years. Those are a few things.
I’m remembering something that I want to say on the matter of advice. Story telling is so powerful. When we are going into a community, if you can afford the time, listen to people’s stories, listen to their history because you find out more about what your job could entail and the opportunities it could provide than if you try to simply apply some of the theories or practices that you’ve learned in social work school or in seminary.