A CONVERSATION WITH ETHAN CRUMLIN

What is your area of work?

My group tries to understand the interfacial chemistry between solids, liquids, and gases, that is, where these systems meet, using a technique that allows us to examine these interfaces in operating environments. There are few techniques that you can use to study the surface of a material at an atomic scale; often these explorations have to take place in very controlled and limited environments far from their intended or real conditions, such as a high vacuum environment. With our ambient pressure x-ray photoelectron spectroscopy (APXPS) technique, we can see what’s happening on the surface of a material during operation. For example, we can witness what is happening to a battery while it is being charged, a fuel cell while it is operating, a catalyst in the midst of a conversion, or electrolysis as a water is transformed into hydrogen and oxygen. This insight provides a significant advantage to understand the real chemistry at the interface.

What big challenge(s) are you hoping to solve with your work (or scientific research) in the next 20 years?

I would love it if we could achieve a true understanding of the structure, chemistry, and electrical profile of electrochemical interfaces. Interfaces are dynamic, and they impact our lives in so many ways. A detailed understanding and mastery of interfaces can solve challenges in energy storage and energy generation, as well as environmental and health challenges. It is the most fundamental piece, but also one of the most complicated pieces. If we can master the interface, then we can leverage that understanding to have a significant impact on a number of fields.

What steps are you taking today to accomplish this vision?

One big step we are taking is to synergistically combine experiments with theory. We are actively investing in and growing capabilities for operando research (research of materials under actual working conditions) while at the same time developing new computational and theoretical tools and new methodologies that allow us to combine experiments with theory and computation from the beginning. Instead of running an experiment, then making calculations, then examining the theory in separate phases, we want to take all these aspects together from the start. This approach will accelerate discovery of new interfaces that will promote tailored reaction mechanisms to more efficiently facilitate catalyst chemical conversion, enhance charge storage in batteries, and develop more selective membranes for water desalination and separations.

I also think that the development of the vision for the Charter Hill Materials and Chemistry Campus at the Lab is exciting. If we get the vision right and it comes to fruition, Charter Hill could amplify what we are working on, so that the whole Lab can leverage this approach. I can envision every scientific pursuit within Charter Hill having a Digital Twin (a real-time virtual model of a physical object or process) that mirrors the physical synthesis, experiment, and characterization, working synergistically to accelerate the scientific understanding at a rate that is nearly unimaginable today. I’m thrilled to be on the Charter Hill planning committee and am looking forward to future developments.

Who do you partner with at the Lab to bring this vision to life?

We partner with so many people. None of our work would be possible without non-research staff — the communications, technicians, operations, and finance teams, for example, have been invaluable. On the research side, we touch on lots of research areas from theory at the Molecular Foundry, computation scientists at NERSC, users who come to ALS, scientists throughout the Energy Science Area, and more across the Lab and increasing, and I’d love to continue building on this. This is what is inspiring about the Lab: I don’t think I truly experienced a collegial environment till I got to Berkeley Lab. People here go out of their way to build things together.

Who from the past, present, or future would you like to collaborate with? And on what?

I couldn’t pick one. I enjoy science and can see opportunities in all directions. I’d welcome the opportunity to work with anyone. Our philosophy is all about staying open to new fields and new directions. We believe this is where some of the most exciting and most innovative possibilities can emerge. This approach allows us to influence many areas by staying nimble, always seeking new opportunities, and pushing boundaries.