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October 12: Manosphere Comedy Podcasts
October 12: Manosphere Comedy Podcasts
Bring-Your-Own-Brunch 12-1, Open Space Discussion 1-2:30 @ TVUUC
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October we will be diving into the strange world of the Manosphere Comedy Podcast. Joe Rogan's audience is many times larger than any show on broadcast or cable. Millions of mostly Millennial and GenZ men listen regularly. Many credit Rogan as a major contributor to Trump's reelection. Other "comedy" podcasters in Rogan's orbit include Theo Von, Andrew Shulz, Tom Segura, Bert Kreisher, Dave Smith, and Tony Hinchcliffe.
With the recent battles over the cancellations of Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel, it is hard to overstate how central comedy has become to our political discourse.
Our conversation will draw inspiration from the brilliant viral video essays from Elephant Graveyard. Here's a 1-minute clip of Marc Maron on Pod Save America praising Elephant Graveyard and explaining why this is important to talk about, and a 13-minute one that really sums up the conversation happening about "anti-woke comedy" on these shows. Keep in mind almost all of the podcasts featured in these videos get more listeners per episode than any Fox News personality.
Be forewarned that many of these comics make a lot of anti-trans jokes, which is finally starting to get serious push-back in the comedy community. These videos are all about how bad those jokes are, but you may have to sit through a few of them for context. There will also be quite a bit of cursing. This content will be way outside of the comfort zone for some of you, but it's the best way to understand how straight white dudes get their news and form their views.
Videos and materials are shared for the purpose of inviting participants into open discussion, and are not endorsed by or representative of TVUUC.
In this short video, AI Christopher Hitchens neatly summarizes the problem with Rogan. If you only have 10 minutes and want to get a summary of the issues we're discussing without having to listen to actual manosphere comedians, this is the one to watch. If you want to discuss the ethics of using AI to make famous dead people say things, we'll be having that one another month!
There are 2 Elephant Graveyard videos that really went viral. The first one is shorter (only 40 minutes) and really focuses on Joe Rogan’s podcast went from being about comedy to one that promotes conspiracy theories, right-wing politicians, and sycophants that want access to his platform.
The latest one, also called “Comedy Jonestown,” is an absolute masterpiece. Incredibly deep, hilarious, and really gets to the heart of what motivates Rogan, his manosphere comedy friends, and the tech billionaires pulling the strings.
Watching long videos on YouTube is much more tolerable if you have Firefox + uBlock Origin. However, watching the ads on YouTube can help keep you informed about everything wrong with society.
The Decoding the Gurus podcast did an episode with an in-depth critical review of the Elephant Graveyard videos. Their podcast explores many of the influential Internet intellectuals that promote pseudoscience, extremism, and other bad ideas for power and profit. They do a good job of explaining many of the references, and calling out some of the implied conspiracies that might be better explained by opportunism. They and others have drawn parallels between Elephant Graveyard and the documentaries of british filmmaker Adam Curtis like Hylernormalisation.
It may seem a bit niche to have a discussion about a 90-minute YouTube video that compares the Austin comedy scene to a simulacrum hyperreality, but it’s entertaining, enlightening, and incredibly relevant to how American got to where it is today. It also highlights the huge divide in our information bubbles, since the subjects of these videos are the most watched media personalities in America, even as many of us have no idea who they are.
Here are some more short videos that give you an overview of the problematic people and ideas that have been promoted by their appearances on Rogan and other comedy podcasts, and the way the recent backlash against him has been dissected and remixed by YouTubers participating in this cultural conversation. These are just for added context, or a shorter alternative to the full EG videos for the time-deprived.
Discussion Questions
Some discussion prompts for the Open Space. Please consider which topics are most interesting to you, or if you have your own ideas for one!
Have you ever listened to Joe Rogan's podcast? What was your opinion of it at the time? Were you aware that he has the largest audience of any modern media personality? Did the Elephant Graveyard videos make any sense to those that aren't familiar with the Rogansphere?
What makes comedians great interviewers? What makes them terrible interviewers? Are there certain types of guest that shouldn't be interviewed by comedians? Is speaking truth to power different when you're face-to-face?
How do the rich and powerful manipulate naive interviewers to promote propaganda and polarizing misinformation? Was this part of a "plan" to promote and popularize these podcasts, or a serious of opportunistic decisions? Was it inevitable that the rich and powerful would co-opt independent media platforms once they became popular?
Are you a fan of stand up comedy? Who are your favorite comedians or podcasters and why? Which comedians/podcasters can best compete with the manosphere to appeal to young men?
What makes something funny? How does comedy that "punches up" differ from "punching down"?
Are comedians guardians of free speech? Did the "anti-woke" comedians have any valid points about free speech? How has the cancellation of Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel impacted free speech in America? How have media conglomerates and mergers enabled this censorship? What role do social media companies have to moderate online content versus allowing free speech for all?
What is a simulacrum hypperreality? Have you ever been a part of one, like a high-control religious group, niche online community, multi-level-marketing organization, or political ideology? How did you realize you were living in a false reality and what did you do?
Supplementary Materials
The Elephant Graveyard videos are more focused on the relationship between comedy and power, where there is so much more that needs to be said about the manosphere. It will take more than one afternoon to sort it all out, but here are some good videos you can check out if you want to learn more.
Those who don't spend a lot of time in the deep recesses of YouTube can get a lot of insight into the type of content that is being created and consumed by many young people from these video essays.
They go into great detail about the manosphere content creators and concepts like incel, redpill, hypergamy and many other ideas promoted by them, from a very creative and snarky feminist perspective.
Both have over a million views despite being almost 2 hours long--roughly the same number of people who watch late night shows. The manosphere influencers they are criticizing get an order of magnitude more views than that.
Here are some much shorter videos from mainstream media for those that don't have 4 hours to spend watching video essays. They explore some other aspects of the manosphere, and whether progressives can appeal to young men instead of ceding the entire demographic to the right.
And some other good manosphere videos by excellent creators like Some More News and ContraPoints, whose channels are very much worth following.
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