0:00:34
Welcome to left on red where a Gen x mom and gay millennial do socialism. Socialism views on views you can use. My name is Scott Carlidis. I'm Susan Kang. And today, we're here with a special guest. I'm Tefa. Tefa, where are you from? What are you doing here? Hi. Well, my name is Tefa, but I actually acquired that name myself in seventh grade when I started fighting already. The powers that be. My actual name is Estefania and I am from Colombia. I was born there and I grew up there, migrated at fifteen and then I did a bunch of migration and now here we are in New York City. And are really excited to be here today. And Tessa is a member of the National Political Committee or NPC of the Democratic socialist of America. So it's really great that we have members of the NPC here in New York. NPC is basically the national leadership body, and we'll talk about that a little bit more in a little bit, but we're really excited to have Tefa here in the studio and excited to hear about More about Tessa, let's start out with why did you join DSA?
0:01:48
If you're listening right now, why should someone join DSA? If you're listening right now, the reason why you have to join DSA is because the moment to shift, oh, what history will look like is right now. And we have the power to do that right now. And so the reason why I joined was because as I said, I've been fighting the powers that'll be since I was very young, but realized that I wanted to be part of a group of people that felt the same way and that had a vision and were inspiring, and that we're willing to struggle to build things. So I moved to New York City of living in the south for about twelve years. And when I moved to the city, I moved because I was interested that in joining DSA in New York and that changed my life because I had done organizing very much before that, but DSA is just such a special place with so many people that so talented and have so much passion that it has made it possible and sustainable to continue to organize and really think better better world is possible. And so that maintains me inspired to organize some fight. And I think that if you are a person that wants to change what you are seeing right now as a crisis, this is the place for you. And so I I very much welcome you to join us in DSA. We need to do the work together, and the more that we are, the stronger, we'll become.
0:03:35
So the two of us have weird stories, but we wanna hear your story about How did you come to socialism? Like, especially somebody who's coming from the south? Yeah. That's really interesting because not only do I come from the south, but also from Colombia where there was civil war for many years in Colombia. Very south. Yeah. Like, very south.
0:04:00
And how I came about socialism was during college, I went to community college in Miami Dade. I had a political science class my last semester of my AA. An incredible professor that introduced me to Bernie Sanders and brought up the statistic on, just generally speaking, was like, Do you know how much of your taxes goes into the educational system and in comparison to the war machine? And war had always been something in my mind since I was young. And I was like, oh, no. I don't know when the fact was that we spend more than fifty percent of our money on war and less than three percent in education. In this country. And one of the things that I really miss and appreciated about Colombia was the quality of education that I got. And that really, like, made me so angry that I was like, okay, who's this Bernie Sanders guy? And I moved that year to yourself, and it just so happened that students from Democratic society was stabling than to stop tuition hikes. And so it was just really a very smooth transition into, okay, this makes sense and had the opportunity to understand and learn a ton about socialism the following two years. While I went to school there.
0:05:21
I feel like a lot of people came to socialism and or DSA through Bernie Sanders. So it's kind of crazy to hear that a he has an appeal even if you're from a different country and you're spending a little bit of time, your first few years in America, you're like, who's this guy? Wait a minute. This sounds right. Something's wrong in this country. We love to hear it, although it makes me worried sometimes about life beyond Bernie. We're going We're very we're very concerned. Yes. Right. Because I I agree. Right. And here's the thing is that, like, Liberals wanna argue that a white Jewish guy in his seventies from Brooklyn isn't gonna connect to like somebody in her twenties who's from Columbia in Florida. Right? Like, these are these identity experiential differences are too vast to bridge, but actually the opposite is true. Right? It's like he speaks to issues that speak to lots of different people. And I'm really glad to hear that you got into I don't know the story at all.
0:06:22
The students for Democratic excited through tabling. And I think I did a tabling yesterday at my college where I teach, I think that there are a lot of young people who care about the world. Wanna make the world better place. They just don't know how to do it. And like I was being lazy at one point and people came up to me. Yeah. Talk to me. I was, like, oh, yeah. And, like, that's why I love it. Right. That's why I love family. I'm, like, no. You're the thing is that, like, I think after the pandemic, people are looking for that connection -- Yeah. -- for sure. But we're, like, more awkward than before. Like, we don't know how to find it. Yeah. So, you know, tabling is great and being just like a presence is Amazing. Alright.
0:06:55
So more tell tell us a little more about I wanna hear about so, Tessa, you moved to New York City because of our DSA chapter, which is you know, that's the amenities landlord's list in New York. They're like, you get access to public transportation. There's really good job. And there's a great DSA chapter. I said, don't forget good food. Yeah. Good food in the DSA chapter. But what was your DSA journey like? Tell us about, like, what you started doing in DSA and how you got to where you are now, which is the highest leadership body of DSA. Yeah.
0:07:30
Well, I used to be part of Mark's Leninist organization, and that's where I learned a bunch about social and democratic centralism and all of these theories, some books people like to read and talk about in the left. However, I was very turned off by the lack of humanity that existed in such organization. So The first thing I did was I went to where those people might be adding DSA. So I went to a reading group in Lohman. That was run by a couple of comrades that was how Mark's led in his reading group. And I was like, let me see what these pool of people are like, and then depending on that, maybe I'll stick around or not. And the truth is that, Karissa, Drake, Mike and Kale were, like, we're very specific in in being welcoming, in being open, in in questioning things, creating positions, for us to be part of the leadership of this reading group. And through this reading group, I ended up leading some sessions, and one of those sessions was on ecosocialism. And so that's where I need. Yap. Yap. And I work on this psychosocialism, peace, and I get into to the eco socialist working group, and that's when I was like, okay, I'm here to stay.
0:08:52
Because for a long time, I understood class politics, and I understood the contradictions, but now it was more than, like, about class Right? It was about, like, the world and and everything in it and how we could be powerful. To move away from for profit to, like, for the world, basically. And so super inspiring and their associates working group you know, I created a public power campaign, and I got reinvolved with the public power campaign. And I started meeting really radical smart organizers committed to also the safety of their comrades and the well-being of their comrades. And that's how I got to the MPC because these comrades invested in me. I invested in them. We grew together. We still grow together. We're still fighting for building public renewables. And so the reason why I'm in the MPC is because of the members and the leadership that were alongside me for the last couple of years.
0:10:01
I feel one, I also really grew and came through DSA through the ecosocial working group. So very excited to hear that. Tefa and I have known each other for a little while now. But I love that you make DSA such a person first organization that everything that you talked about was about the people you interacted with, the way that they made you feel, the way they invested in you, the way that you got to invest in them, these interactions you had, that's like, if there's anything I would ever want anyone to feel in this organization, it's that you're making change and you're making things happen, through your connections and your bonds with other people that it's like this collective humanity project, not just about the books that we read, which are important. Let me not say that they're not. I'm not a, you know, I'm illiterate, but they're important. But through the bonds that you create with others and the organizing you work you do together, that's what elevates the things that we're doing.
0:11:00
So what are what are the things that you've noticed are sort of the challenges to organizing. Like, we wanna build a mass, you know, multiracial working class movement. But what do you think are the things that we need to pay attention to? Money. I really think is money. Because we do live in capitalism and imperialism. And there is crisis that's happening constantly. And those crisis require economic means and fluctuate how economics work. And money is really at the center of everything and no one really wants to talk about it. And so I think that that has been like the challenging part of like really pushing people to like do the uncomfortable parts of the work, which is like, okay, how many dollars do you have to create that campaign? How many people do you have Like, also, I think that the connection between labor and money is really important.
0:12:00
I think that people don't realize that a volunteer, like in my mind how I like to think about it capacity wise and money wise, and I would like others to think about it, is we should not be proud to be a volunteer based organization. We should value the hours of our volunteers as if they were economics. Right? Like, if someone is investing five hours a week in volunteering. Right? Like, that amounts into money because you're not paying for it but that person is having to self fund to be part of this organization. And so I think that the hardest part for me has been just really gas thing and trying to figure out how do we create a better culture on talking about economics and like the economics that it takes to be able to have a group of people that are well, that, like, have access to wellness. Right? That can be doing this human project that you're talking about in a sustainable way that requires cash. Right? So that's that's really like the hard part in my personal experience.
0:13:09
With organizing. Talking about what we would use cash for, but also what happens on the NPC? What are some things you guys are working on right now? Maybe that kind of connect to that that you think if we had money would be WOULD NOT BE CHALLENGERS OR WOULD NOT BE THINGS THAT THE NBC HAD TO DEAL WITH. SO MANY THINGS. SO RIGHT NOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT NBC members do is they sit in different committees. And one of the committees that I sit on is the Budget and Finance Committee. So literally right now, since January, we've been working in on, like, this year's budget.
0:13:54
And I can tell you that it's all about tools. Like, right now, being able to provide tools and Creating the human interaction is what is most expensive. Being able to have money to travel people so that they can go inspire other people that are, like, seeking to understand where they're moving, being able to create conferences so that people can come and debrief what is going on under chapters. And what is going on with their personal projects as organizers. Right? That is that cost a lot of money. Right now, we are doing a socialism is the future conference with leadership from all the current around the country.
0:14:32
And the biggest hurdle to it has been money. Right? Every person that applies asks, can I get a refund? Can you pay for my traveling? Can you pay for my hotel? Right? And so Yeah. Those are some of the of the most challenging parts.
0:14:50
And and really, at the core, right? Like, if we're not talk to each other, if we're not debriefing, if we're not planning, then we're not organizing. And because of this really weird timing plays that were in post pandemic. Right? It is very, it's very hard to have those conversations because some people will lean into, oh, but now you can do everything virtually. Right? But virtual is the personalizing. And virtual is what causes, like, one of the biggest diseases of the left, which is that the humanization of the characters that we are interacting with.
0:15:27
And so, yeah, that's those are some of the challenges in that MPC right now in terms of how how do we get more members, how do we get renewals? Why why how do we communicate to membership? What we are doing with their dollars? Right? And that actually goes back to them rather than, like, stays just in the air or something or, like, bonds or crypto or whatever. Patricia's not n f t's. You might just listen to the last episode.
0:16:00
This is a really good time about Victor's of capital and finance. Which is not what DSA does, what they do. Yeah. Now what we are trying to do with every centric get is to reinvest that in the membership that he's paying them. But that is really hard when you have a hundred k people in capitalism. You know, it doesn't it doesn't equate. So We we have not yet created a new type of financial asset called members, you know what we're hoping to.
0:16:31
So kind of this makes me think too when you talk about the NPC and money in these problems, which is political parties, socialist parties, and other countries, are usually much more powerful and much larger. And they don't really have, like, volunteer leaders or their leadership of those parties is usually elected officials who are kind of like the heads of their parties, and they have a ton of money from their very large memberships. And the money that they get by being in government. And so all of those problems kind of get commuted. I think most people in DSA want to get to that vision, long term, short term. I know there's different ideas on how we get there. But if we were in that vision, in that world where you had the resources, you had the money, you had things that you wanted, and you still have the challenges or the problems that DSA deals with in the United States today. What would you as an MPC member like to be able to do? Or what do you think the NPC could or should be doing if we operate it in that way?
0:17:34
Well, I think talking about labeling and, like, post COVID, awkwardness. I think that we need to invest in people's health. Right? Like, in people's, like, wellness in terms of, like, trainings on how to set yourself up to success when you're having conversations at the door. I also think that I mean, I have never been asked this question, and I am so always in the moment that right now I don't even know what I what things I could want, you know. But I I definitely think that a key component that needs to happen regardless of the economics is that we need to develop better creation strategies and not just podcast like. Right? But I mean it more into redefining how we treat each other, how we treat the world, how we communicate even about the things that we want. Right? Like post COVID, there's so much tension. People are constantly at the defensive or waiting if they're gonna be asked for something or kind of like wanting to move back. And so, yeah, I think that, like, the first step would be to fight for Medicare for all, so that then all the members can have also access to health. And then therefore be in a much better place to continue to build the policies and do all the work that we do need to do to be able to you know, not end up in a climate catastrophe.
0:19:14
But we love podcasts. Right. We do love no. We love podcasts because people can listen to them while they're like, I don't know, fully laundry or in the car. Right. Not while you're driving. Right. Right. My partner specifically, like I said, while he does the dishes in the morning, as he's more naive. So we and we love the, you know, your partner taking on household labor. So Oh my god. Yes. He's good at that. I love that. We love sharing chores. And we want him to be connected to the politics while he does that. So this is why this podcast is so important. I hope you're doing chores while you're listening. In a way that challenges gender norms -- Yeah. -- for sure.
0:19:52
So speaking of sharing labor, let's talk about the sharing of labor between city, New York City, DSA and any chapter of DSA and national DSA. I'm a little guilty of being very privileged to live in New York And sometimes, I kinda say, well, I got so much work to do here. I don't really need to worry about national. I'm a little guilty of not paying attention to national DSA because it's a lot bigger. It's a lot larger. There's a lot more questions and challenges. And focusing on what I feel really much more powerful and in control of, which is stuff happening here in New York.
0:20:34
But I think for very obvious reasons, our national presence is really critical and important. And that's why you became an MPC member because you think that very much so why is National DSA so important that you're spending many hours a week as an NPC member? And what's it doing that you think we need to be paying more attention to or interacting with more? To me, it goes back to, like, the core relationship of what we're trying to build, which is democratized and rearrangement of economics Right? And I think that one of the biggest things is, you know, in New York City, you have a fifteen dollar dollar minimum wage, and you have a ten dollar sub minimum wage, which should access. But the case is that in the south, there are people that make two seventy five plus steps. Right? And not only that, but there is a lot of other types of oppression and exploitation that goes unseen and does not have the economics to be able to be lived up.
0:21:45
And the reason why I believe that the national organization is so important is because it creates the resources for those really remote rural areas, organizers, or campaigns that are needed. It creates a space for them to be able to be built. So for example, I know one of the big subjects has been like the railroad workers. Right? Railroad workers not all live in big cities. Right? Like, they probably live in rural areas. And so, you know, being able to build a movement within that fires us to be in rural areas too.
0:22:24
And not only that, but one of the biggest difficulties that we face is the disconnection from the people that are the Trump supporters, right, that could be socialist, but are just like so disenfranchised. And left behind. And in my experience, in South Florida, I am a part of our union. I am part of I Etsy. I have organized with Trump supporters before, and you you really get to see how a little bit can a really long way in some spaces and some places. And so, to me, it's about redistribution to be able to do it at the national level. And also about visibility and strength on like what the next step is going to be because as you said New York even leaving in New York is technically a privilege because you have a subway to get places. Right? So places like New York and California have a lot of advancements that can also be guidance to how these communities can look like. And the type of things that they can do. So going back to building public renewables act, right, being able to, like, pass that here and start sharing across the country, how that got built, how that got created, and how people can build something of the kind for their own states It's ideal for us to continue to build a movement and actually move towards democratic socialism rather than just talk about it.
0:24:17
One of the criticisms I think that gets thrown against NYC based DSA leaders and activists is that we don't understand what's like outside the rest of the country. And I I guess I was wondering what you might state a criticism like that, which is that, you know, here in New York, you're so privileged, and it's very like, of course, socialism thrives in New York. But how would you respond to this kind of criticism? Socialism does not thrive in New York. There's a lot of surprises in their back. Like, I think that this is something I learned this year. Was this hardening and and heartbreaking for me to think that I had flown this house because I didn't wanna be around KKKK anymore and I didn't want to have to deal with police brutality in my organizing and then finding myself in like district fourteen last, like, last end of year with the AOC campaign being, like, targeted on her ass by what could be called, like, the KKK members of New York City. Right?
0:25:17
I think that what I have to say to people that say they don't understand is don't don't say that. Why don't you ask someone? What are you doing? And how can I do something so that it can be like yours? Right? And that goes back to that wellness piece, which is it's much easier to be, like, why did you, why didn't you, that person knows, that person that doesn't know, them being, like, Hey, Scott. Actually, I'm wondering, I've seen that this project really works well in New York State. And I am wondering, what do you guys do for that? And this is what we're trying to do. How do you think that could, like, correlate to my work? And build conversations rather than, like, pointing fingers. And it's a matter of, like, choosing the path of less resistance even in that case. And I think that a lot of the burnout and a lot of what is really hard about being an MPC member is that people are not being helpful by pointing fingers at each other. People are more helpful when they engage in discussion and then move together. So a hundred percent, I agree because people think that it's so easy here and it's not And actually, you know, in New York City, Trump has gained supporters since twenty sixteen.
0:26:28
Right? And it's been in communities of color. So, you know, actually, we have quite a lot of work. New York also went to the right in twenty twenty two and everybody else went to the left. Like, we have we have quite a lot of fighting to do.
0:26:40
Honestly, I was feeling like am I the plague because things started to go backwards when I got here. Yeah. We seem to be doing a bad job. But I appreciate that what you're talking about is basically, like, your whole theme is like building bridges and healing divisions. It's a good reminder because there have been interactions I've had with people across DSA nationally where I've had these agreements with people or I've kind of seen that attitude come out at me that you know, I'm from New York. I wouldn't understand. Or, you know, sometimes I've not always had the best attitude when talking to folks. And I realized script. Yeah. And I I realized that the differences or the disagreement we had was fake that actually we kind of agreed with the things that the other person was saying, but we had this division or this barrier between us that was maybe a resentment because maybe I couldn't understand what's going on from that chapter and maybe I was resentful because I felt like they were discounting what I was saying or they weren't interested in what I had to say. And so I think both, you know, in some cases, both of us had to humble ourselves and then realize, actually, we kind of agree and this relationship is helpful for the two of us.
0:27:56
I had that happen with folks in Long Island one time here in New York State where folks in Long Island DSA really were frustrated because I was trying to help them out in terms of planning and action. And they felt like all of the things I was saying were not feasible for them. They were like, we're just not a big chapter like New York city. We can't do those things. And I took a step back and I said, you know what? Tell me what you think you can do, and let's work from there. Because I was kind of telling them what they needed to do, and I think there were ways in which they could have scaled that down, but I needed to take a moment to ask them how it would work best. And they needed to do a little bit of work and figure out how they can interact with me And I learned a lot in terms of what are some alternative ways you can make an action happen and you can plan an event. What are some things you can do with less resources? And they learned a lot in terms of how can you plan this event. And it ended up being a lot more fruitful and it was a very successful Starbucks union worker rally out in Great Neck.
0:28:58
But, yeah, I I if there's anything that I feel like I've just taken away from what I just heard you say, it's that We need to build bridges, we need to heal divisions, and we need to just talk to each other like people more. And that's what organizing is. Right? We because we're in an organizing organization doesn't mean that we're fully organized, like, you are still organizing within the organization. So you have to beat apathy. Right? You have to let go of the ego. You you need to invest in your wellness. You need to invest in the wellness of your comrades. Right? You need to be able to call in people. I mean, like, hey, you've been doing this a lot, which I really appreciate. Like, are you overcapacity city. Are you sure you can do all of these things? Right? And apathy beating apathy and wellness and organizing is also about meeting people where they're at. So you have to really put yourself in the back seat to be able build organization inside. It's not like you joined organization at all of the sudden, you're just organizing outside of the organization. Right? Like, the organizing is, like, an everyday job. So, yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent.
0:30:08
Sounds like we do take the toxic cataclysm. Out of ourselves. Right? No. Out of ourselves. Right? Because, like, we come with all this like trauma, accounts that's on this whether it's individual, collective, whether it's spiritual, economic, social, cultural. And then, of course, we come like, with our injuries. But we can't leave with them. Right? We can leave them with the things we haven't commented. True. You know, we see it on Twitter because as you said, online spaces can be due human humanizing. And there's nothing like I had, like, two great union in person activities, like, in a week. And I was just like, yes. I love the union. Right? Because I hadn't done it yet. I hadn't had a while.
0:30:44
I don't wanna say this in a way that minimizes concerns of people who are worried about COVID, because I know that that, you know, people do worry about that. They're like, oh, all these in person events, you know, what about long COVID. And I understand that we all have different abilities. But, you know, I do think that the interactions of face to face they build a community and maybe they can be done safely like outside. You know, there's lots of different way to do it. And we have to be open. Yeah. We have to be open like, when people are like but what about this one thing? Not multiple things are possible. You know, I think that that is like another big deal. It's not it's not just yeah, if you are COVID safe because in when a compromised system or all of this stuff, there are also spaces in that you can organize that way, but that does not mean that that has to determine everyone's conditions. But we also have to help build those spaces. I mean Absolutely.
0:31:36
And that sounds like what you're saying, Susan, in terms of, like, the traumas of capitalism, but, like, we have to unlearn a lot of individual activity and behavior. And I feel like that happens in person. When you're behind the screen, when you're online, you're the individual, you're you, and when you're with other people, maybe not always in person, maybe there's other ways to be social. Right? That helps break down that individualist attitude and helps you feel like more of this collective, which is such a good lesson. So, Teva, before we wrap up, is there anything else you really wanna say or wanna make sure folks hear from you before we end the show. Two things. First, if you are not yet a DSA member, but you feel that today, your day is better because of this podcast, you should become a DSA member. We'd love to hear it. And to like and subscribe for this podcast to grow. Because, again, communication is in multiple forms. Right? And I really do thank that being able to create spaces where we are interacting with each other in different ways is so important and this is one of those ways where you can tune in and then at the same time Fueling spot on and understand.
0:32:56
Filed laundry. Filed laundry. And Filed the laundry, think about I doing all the chores in the house? Who's doing all the chores in the house? Should we get someone to do the chores in the house and have a well paid job for some sort of worker, you know, like all of these labor con like, you know, labor. How's yours is labor? And we can be alongside you. Through your labor. Yes.
0:33:22
So please, if you please, if you can subscribe and if you rate us, this means that the algorithm will promote us, which is kinda like an online version of tabling. Right. Absolutely. Exactly. Oh my god. Yes. That is so Help us table -- What were tangible? -- like us, rate us. Share us. Share us. Subscribe. And join DSN.
0:33:44
And so that way someone who may really need to hear this might be able to hear it when they're looking for that connection. Or keep it in your bookmarked to or in in a safe text message, you know, you have that friend that you have been talking to for three years about DSA, maybe ten years. And they're, like, Maybe next time. Maybe next time. Well, we're gonna help you with this. That's right. This is gonna help you bring it home and get someone to become a member of the DSA. If you need help with that, if you have any questions for me, Susan or Tefa, you can always email left on red NYC gmail dot com. That's left like the direction, red like the color. And thank you all so much. Thank you. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you, guys.