Embedded Files
Am writing from Australia where I am assisting a good friend ( Kathy Allen) with research. I am interested in anything regarding
a Isaac Allen McNanul ( used the name Isaac Manaul Allen in Aust). parents Matthew McNaul and Ann Allen. Came to Australia with
cousin George Montgomery Allen , parents Samuel Allen and Catherine Montgomery. A long story which I can fill you in with . Wrote a long email which wouldn't go. The cousins both married Curry sisters from
Lisnawery . Happy to fill you in with more of what is known. Trevor Smith ( Albion Park, NSW Australia)
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My friend – Kathy Allen – has a great grandfather ( who went under the name Isaac Manaul Allen in Australia) who came to
Australia in the 1850s with his cousin George Montgomery Allen. ( parents were Samuel Allen and Catherine Montgomery arrived
in Sydney 1861and shown as from Garvahy and Catherine Fidden ). George was born in Augher 1833 . They arrived in South Australia
and then went to the Victorian Goldfields. I think successful as George ended up on the South Coast of NSW at Wollumla farming.
He visited the Curry Family near Kiama and subsequently married Rebecca Jane Curry. The Curry family were from Lisnawery. Isaac was a bit of a devious secretive character. Story was that his mother had died, his father remarried and he didn’t get on
with his stepfather. He was determined that no one would know where he came from and at one time tore pages from the Bible and
threw them in the fire. He is also reported to have gone to America and fought in the civil war at Harpers Ferry.
Another report is that he had found a way to make gun barrels from pipes ???. He later returned to Australia and married
Isabella Curry. Somewhere he profited – either with Gold prospecting or the Civil War as he was able to buy a farm at Bundanoon,
build a house he called Laurel Lodge and also built the Presbyterian and Catholic churches. In 2015 I was in the UK and left Armagh heading to Omagh for the night. I will put his down as what I had put in an email to
Kathy. - I headed from Armagh towards Omagh going through Aughnacloy.Suddenly saw Lisnaweary Rd sign.. Travelled down for a
while, saw a couple of old buildings then came to another intersection and the Lisnaweary Quilts sign so I stopped and knocked
on the door, Told him what I was doing and asked where the Lisnaweary Townland was. He told me and also pointed out the old
school.He said Kirkpatricks live on that farm and have for 3 generations. I mentioned Elligal and Allen and he said there are
some that still live there and there was an old church with headstones. He directed me down back roads - nearly run off the road
by a 4WD and horsefloat. Found the church, as it started to rain and took some photos and looked at a few graves. Walked around the church and came upon
a row of headstones. Most were indecipherable and then there was one that said - " In memory of my dear departed parents Matthew McNaul who died 17th August1867 aged 71 years and his beloved wife Ann Allen who
died April 1s7 1842 aged 55 years. Also in memory of their infant childres James Mc Naul who died in 1837 aged 1 year and
6 months and Jane Mc Naul who died in 1841 aged 6 months."
taken 14 days ago, 3 km from Ballygawley, Northern Ireland
taken 14 days ago, 3 km from Ballygawley, Northern Ireland
Headstones at Ballynasaggart Church of Ireland
On the left one, the following text is included in the description
That was the only relevant one I could decipher. Well - Isaac must have had a sibling. Also they were quite old and breeding
according to the age when she died and the last child died. From Ancestry trees I have established that there were 2 brothers who went to America and also involved in the Civil War.
Matthew McNaul had married Catherine Allen and had another child after Ann had died. There is one which refers to Catherine
as Lady Catherine Allen – was she a relative of Ann ?. They also show Isaac as a sibling of John and Joseph. In America they
go under the name of Manaul. It seems that this has partially answered the questions and that Isaac is really Isaac Allen
McNaul.I understand that Allens, McNauls, Montgomery and Curry are mentioned in the History of Glenhoy Prebyterian Church
– can check this in a couple of weeks. Also it has been said they were on Favor Royal. What would appreciate any information
and links of her to the Allens . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Trevor, you have quite a bit of information there which would tie up with some of the details I have on the Allen family tree. Another person who was very much into this is my
cousin Joan Allen who still lives at Errigal. Sounds like you were at Glenhoy Presbyterian Church but did you go to Ballynassggart Church if Ireland? A lot of Allen's buried there
although they were mostly Presbyterian. In the meantime have a look at my website which has references to the Allen's, in particular Tony Allan from South Africa deceased but
who was an family tree enthusiast and who had a reunion with the Allens several years ago
https://sites.google.com/site/kennyallenswebsite/home
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As well as Kathy being a very good friend and we hope to there in either Sept or April, I am also a volunteer at Kiama Family
History Centre so have had a bit of experience as well as looking at all the possibilities and trying to analyse all the stories that have come from within the Family. The Allen research
was originally started many years ago by Kathys father pre internet. On his death , her older sister took over the info. Despite the evidence of the headstone, she is still loath to admit
as to who he may have been ( I would call it in denial ). At the time of my trip I didn't know about the Glenhoy church and it being so close to the Errigle Church of Ireland where I
found the Memorial stone - a dark granite one leaning against the fence with a lot of the other old ones.. I will have a look
at your web page and go through it with Kathy in about a weeks time ( she lives at Port Macquarie on the Mid Nth Coast of NSW.
I am about 80 Km south of Sydney. Kathy also has her Father's book about Glenhoy Church. Didn't get to or know about Ballynassggart Church. I think we will have a lot more to see.
As well as a bit of sight seeing I was also researching Stevensons and Somervilles from Magherally. Any help will be greatly appreciated. ( the only other thing that I can think of at this
stage is that there is some thought
in the family that Ann Allens mother might have been Ann English.
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A pity you couldn't have met Tony Allen, yes the Allen name got changed when his grandfather went to South Africa
Tony was really into this but none of the rest of the family shows any interest
https://sites.google.com/site/kennyallenswebsite/home/allen-allen---the-south-african-connection
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This is what I understand the inscription on Memorial Stone to say - " In memory of my dear departed parents Matthew McNaul who died 17th August1867 aged 71 years and his
beloved wife Ann Allen
who died April 1s7 1842 aged 55 years. Also in memory of their infant children James Mc Naul who died in 1837 aged 1 year
and 6 months and Jane Mc Naul who died in 1841 aged 6 months." Not sure that this is completely right as to her age . 55 seems a little too old to be having a child the year before she died.
Have attached the Australian shipping record for the arrival of George Montgomery Allen's parents and siblings. Just noticed
that it seems to say a grandchild John Johnstone ? as well. They show as being from Garvaghy Have also enclosed a copy of information on Ancestry regarding Matthew McNaul.
Interesting that they say they were born in Tycany. Griffiths Valuation 1860 ? shows Matthew McNaul at Tycany on Land of Francis J Gervais.
http://lordbelmontinnorthernireland.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/cecil-manor.html Some of the information on Ancestry in various US trees is confusing.
Some of the people show wife no 2 for Matthew as Lady Catherine Allen. I will look further into this. My logic is that if Isaac is a cousin of George Montgomery Allen,
Samuel would be a brother of Ann.
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My uncle John's wife's family, basically they got the train at Beragh in Tyrone, travelled to Londonderry and caught a barge and sailed down to Moville in Donegal
where they joined the vessel that came from Glasgow to sail to the States.
One source for ships lists is the Ulster American Folk Park near Omagh
https://sites.google.com/site/kennyallenswebsite/home/jean-allen-s-american-relatives
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I think when we can work something out about where Ann and Matthew Mc Naul (and maybe Lady Catherine - I wonder was she an
Allen?) really come from it would be good to add to the page. I spent a bit of time yesterday on the computer looking at Francis Gervais the Landowner AND Favor Royal . Also reading some
information on the Ulsterheart site - http://math.uww.edu/~mcfarlat/pictures/ulsterheart/ulsterheart_196.htm Some quite interesting information about the district. Being a poor Aussie -
but all from Anglo Saxon roots -as far as I know
- a bit of English , Scottish, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland - some coming in chains, I was interested to know
where the name Kerrogue came from and how it is attached to Errigal. I notice in the Ulsterheart site that Moutray talking
about a new church calls the area Kerog. There are a lot of things Kathy is trying to work out - Isaac went to America and fought for the south at Harpers Ferry yet
his brother John fought for the Union Army. These records are on Ancestry and I need America access to look at them. Will try
to head to Family History Centre and use their access today. There has been an association or alignment made with her Allen lot to Favor Royal - rightly or wrongly and I think mainly by
her sister and possibly father beforehand. Their reasoning or clue to this is that for some peculiar reason the family in
Australia used the name Moutray as a second Christian name. Were the Moutrays "good" to the peasant farmers ? The other question and to which we will probably never get an answer
- is how did Isaac go to and from America - can't find him on any shipping records here. Did he go via Ireland ? Despite his leaving home at around 19, he still seems to have held a lot of
affection for the country and family. Another interesting thing is that the name Muckross is also used in the family. Just as a matter of interest I hired a car a in Belfast ( went to Linen Hall
Library and did see quite a few references to Rev Isaac Allen in their card index as articles from papers ) and then headed down through Magheralin to Banbridge and
Magherally ( which is where we believe my Stevenson / Somerville family were before going to Scotland around 1800).
I then went down to see the Mountains of Morne,( Magnificently beautiful), Newry, Armagh, Lisnawery, Errigal Clogher then
Omagh and back to Belfast. It would be great if Joan can throw any light on any of the Allens / McNaul that we know of. I think that when we come we will need to spend a couple of days
around the area. A lot to see and investigate.
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When I started doing this for Kathy , there was some thought in the family that his mother’s name was Ann English.
From the Memorial Stone, we know that it is Ann Allen with father Matthew McNaul.
I think I mentioned that my logic was that if Isaac that came to Australia with his cousin George Montgomery Allen, then the common factor was that Ann and Samuel ( George’s father ) must be brother and sister.
Samuel died in Australia in 1870 and I have checked the death and his parents are listed as Joseph Allen and Ann English. Therefore my logic says this is where it comes in – not as Isaac’s mother but his Grandmother.
I wonder if Joan can clear this up further from what she has.
In your earlier email you said - A glance at the family tree chart shows Ann Allen b 1809 d1842 married to James Manuel (spelling?)
She had 4 brothers and one sister.
Their father was Isaac Allen of Errigle, now spelt Errigal b1787 in County Armagh d 1867 in Co Tyrone He was married to Elizabeth Caldwell Headstone was in Ballynasaggart graveyard but partly removed
His father was Joseph Allen from County Armagh b 1750 d 1829 in Co Tyrone On the same headstone which was partly removed You can see it on my website before it was removed
A lot of this information was compiled by Joan Allen's father Joseph
Could check again as to whether you have a Joseph married to an Ann English ?
On your web page it says - The family tree dates back to 1750 when Joseph Allen was born. He had three sons Joseph Allen of Techany, Isaac Allen born 1787 of Errigle and Samuel Allen of Garvaghy. My my direct line from Isaac Allen is then Isaac Allen born in 1823 (Robert Allen's father), then Isaac Allen born in 1851, Alexander Allen born in 1889 and Isaac Allen, my father born in 1918.
Do they fit under the Joseph Allen of Techany ?
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Read this link , its about my uncle's wife's family, basically they got the train at Beragh in Tyrone, travelled to Londonderry and caught a barge and sailed down to Moville in Donegal where they joined the vessel that came from Glasgow to sail to the States.
One source for ships lists is the Ulster American Folk Park near Omagh
https://sites.google.com/site/kennyallenswebsite/home/jean-allen-s-american-relatives
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Good evening Ken – here anyway
Yes – hard to figure out. From what I can work out –
from the George Montgomery Allen family.
The parents of this Ann Allen were Joseph Allen and Anne English.
From the headstone Matthew Mc Naul d 1867 aged 71
Ann Allen d 1842 – it says aged 55 but doesn’t seem right that she would be breeding at that age. If correct it would have made her born 1787 – maybe that shoud have been 35 years
2 deceased children -James Mc Naul who died in 1837 aged 1 year and 6 months and Jane Mc Naul who died in 1841 aged 6 months."
From what I can find from the Americans – I expect that the Memorial stone was placed in Errigle Cemetery by one of these.
Children were also John Menaul B1837, James Allen Menaul b 1842 ( I wonder if Ann died with his birth )
Matthew then married Catherine Allen and children were William Menaul b 1849 and Jane Menaul b 1853
Then there is Isaac in Australia b 1838- as far as the family knows.
This part with the remarriage fits in with Australian family stories of how his mother died, father remarried and Isaac didn’t get on with the stepmother.
Both John and James became ministers. John served in the Union army in the American civil War . He was also the one who had a school in New Mexico. I believe He also translated the Bible in to the native language.
I am trying to make contact with a member of the American Menaul family who lives in Australia.
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19/05/17 Joan informed me
In 1886, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs did not renew the contract with the Presbyterians and took over the PTS facilities. The Presbyterians decided there was still need for a boarding school and so, in 1896, Rev. James A. Menaul, a Presbyterian minister (1842 - 1897) sought and received Presbyterian mission funding for a boarding school that would serve Spanish-speaking boys from New Mexico, primarily from the northern portion of the state, and purchased some 200 acres at the present Menaul School location.
More at Menaul_School
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I think you hit the nail on the head here Ann Allen b 1809 d1842 Rev James (not Isaac) Allen Menaul b1842 d 1897 Looks like she died giving birth and no more children?
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It seems the Memorial stone would have been erected by John or James - maybe came back at some time. Maybe Jane the daughter
before she went to America. Her name is mentioned but neither Catherine or the other son to her, William. Jane and William both later went to America - William when he was older and I think probably married. Just out of curiosity, I might try to find them going to America through Ellis Island. Maybe even Catherine went too.
Interestingly there is a death of a Catherine Menaul in Lisnaskea in 1899 aged 76. - or maybe she went to America too.
Found that the other day when I was at Kiama Family History Centre. What I have written down does have an LDS FHL Reel No.
Will try to see if I can see it.
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I have come across a will for a John McNaul (which I have attached – you will need to increase the size of the writing to read it). Quite interesting in that he may possibly be an unmarried brother of Matthew McNaul ( my wonderings ) as you look at the names of the beneficiaries. Principally the one that could tie in would be the main one John McNaul of Pittsburg. Some of the others – William and Jane also fit to children of Matthew and Anne.
Could John have returned to Ireland to sort this out and had the memorial stone made then ?
Is the Widow Mc Naul in the will Matthew’s second wife Catherine ?
In the will it states he lives at Kilnahery or Kilnaheery. Mr Google won’t help other than to find it is a Townland near Clogher.
Had a reply from the Menaul in Australia – sadly not much help. I will need to go to the place he suggested or one of the other people who has Menaul Family Trees on Ancestry. This is his reply –
Trevor -- I am indeed that Rob Menaul, but I am woefully lacking any genealogical help for you. My grandmother was an avid record-keeper, but when she passed, my mother and uncles didn't keep her files. You might try the Lubbock Texas Genealogical Society; she worked with them for years, and they may have some info.
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noted:
Mcnaul, Samuel James arrived from Britain on the Britannic at Ellis Island in 1952
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Did I mention ulster american folk park resource centre for migration studies just a couple of miles from Omagh?
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I will work on this. Eliza Murray - according to what we can see from records in Australia – arrived in Australia between 1850 and 1852 when she married. Cannot positively identify her on any shipping records.
Her age fits as born 1832 on all the children’s births and her death cert. It says she was born in Westmeath and her father Thomas.
One has to bear in mind that this info was given by a member of the family. Who knows what she was on the shipping as but I can’t find anything close. Maybe Elizabeth or maybe Murray.
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It is very hard to sort out what is fact from exaggerated tales.
I have searched on PRONI and can’t find any record of marriages for Mathew and Ann or Mathew and Catherine or deaths.
I have also been searching on Scotland’s People and cannot find any birth for Mathew or any marriages. The only birth for a Catherine is , I think too early and would be around the end time iof her breeding age to have the last 2.
That Obit said that Jane and her brother went to America together. I wonder what happened to Catherine ? I have asked the Rob Menaul in Australia whether he has heard of what happened to Catherine
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.I received a couple of Face book messages from Rob Menaul who is in Australia.
One cannot be sure about the last part of the Obituary – you know how stories get handed down through families.
Questions I can think of are who was the Matthew McNaul who received a land grant – With my cynical hat on I suspect not this one but maybe a lot further back. It seems this one was on Gervais land from Griffiths Valuation. Who the heck was Lady Catherine.?
I finally found this document! It's one I came across ages ago, type on onionskin that I re-typed on my old Apple IIc, lost, found again after several moves, saved in a place I would never find again, found again looking for something else, and re-re-typed and saved on a removable hard drive!
The text: Obituary Jane Menaul, the youngest child of Mathew and Catherine Menaul (McNaul) was born in Tyrone County, Ireland on Apr. 16, 1853, and departed this life May 13, 1930, aged 77 years and 27 days. At 17 years of age she came with her brother to the United States. For a short time she lived in Philadelphia. Then for a while in Wapongers Falls in New York. About the year 1871 she migrated to the far west, traveling the greater part of the way in a covered wagon, to Fort Defiance, Arizona where her brother John Menaul was medical missionary of the Presbyterian Church to the Navajo Indians. She learned the Navajo Indian language and for some time was government and church interpreter for these people. In 1873 she went to Denver, Colorado to worh (sic) as secretary for Dr. Shelton Jackson who was Superintendent of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church in the United States. While in Denver she met Frank Vane of Delaware, to whom she was Married in 1876. She quit her work for the Church and she and her husband resided in Salina, Colorado, where her husband was for many years engaged in mining. Four children were born to them, two sons and two daughters. One daughter died in infancy. In 1888 she came with her husband and children to the farm near Winchester, Ohio, where she resided till the time of her death. She accepted Christ as her Savior at an early age and became a member of the Presbyterian Church. Though unable for many years to attend church services, she always aided in its support and lived a christian life. She was the last of her father’s family of seven, and leaves to mourn their loss, her husband, Frank D, Vane, two sons, John I. Vane and Mathew Denny Vane of Winchester and one daughter, Mary Roberts of near Seaman, Ohio, also 13 grandchildren and one great grandchild. (Mathew McNaul, Omagh, Ireland, was a Freeholder, i;e, a Scots Highlander granted a tract of land in N. Ire. By the King and Queen of England, and was accountable only to the King of England. With his first wife Isach, John, and James were born. His first wife died then he married Lady Catherine Allan (of Scots Nobility), to them was born William and Jane. The name was changed to Menaul by those who came to America. Isach went to Australia and changed his name to Allan.)
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Mr Allen
Thank you for your e-mail. We have no record of a Rev McNaul or Menaul being a Presbyterian in Ireland. The Griffith’s Valuation of the mid 19th century shows Patrick, George and Matthew McNaul in Tycanny townland so one of these might be James Allen’s father. If he was born in 1842 we have checked the baptisms for Clogher and Aughentaine Presbyterian churches but he is not there.
I am sorry that I have not been able to give you more definite information.
Valerie Adams
Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland
26 College Green, Belfast BT7 1LN
Website: www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com
Opening Hours: Tuesday and Wednesday 9.30am-1.00pm and 1.30pm-4.30pm; Thursday 9.30am-1.00pmSomewhere around end of famine days.
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The date on Glenhoy Presbyterian church is 1843, so yes Ballynasaggart Church of Ireland may be where earlier births marriages and deaths were processed.
Re the email I forwarded you on from Church House on Rev McNaul its possible that he may have gone to Edinburgh for his ministry training.
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It seems there are a lot of Church records missing. I wonder if they were baptised in the Errigle Kerrogue church pre Glenhoy. No need to copy the book - Kathy's father had one and I have just been looking through it. He did have a few names marked -
not quite sure why. One interesting thing I did notice was that in the Appendix V - Seatholders in 1896 it does have a
Mrs Menaul. I wonder if that is Catherine. Certainly all the History and evidence of land ownership debunks the Americans belief that Matthew McNaul was given a grant
of land.
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Among Kathy’s fathers’ papers there was a draft of a letter to a Jenny Jordan in Ireland. Unfortunately she died before he sent it.
Does that name ring a bell.
Trevor
Sorry Trevor I wouldn't know, but maybe Joan can help, you'd need to contact her
I must send you the Allen Chart which is in several sections
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Hi Ken Kathy's maiden name was Allen. She is descended from Isaac, the son of Matthew McNaul and Ann Allen. Isaac came to Australia with his cousin George Montgomery Allen in 1857/8. He had left home to get away from his stepmother
- the Catherine Allen who Matthew MacNaul had married after Ann died in 1842. Both George and Isaac married Curry girls . The Curry family - had come to Australia earlier and were from Lisnaweary.
It would seem that George knew the family prior to them coming here. George's parents were Samuel Allen and Catherine Montgomery. My logic is that if George and Isaac are cousins, then Isaac's
mother Ann Allen must have been Samuel's sister. Parents of Samuel ( and I think Ann are) Joseph Allen and Ann English . So we have the Allens, the Curry , The Montgomerys all intertwined. Lydia , the eldest daughter of Curry m John Johnston in
Errigle Kerrogue. 15th December 1845. They remained in Ireland and the rest came to Australia. I have attached some pages from old family history regarding the Curry Family. I think there are a few errors regarding place names. Isaac Manaul Allen m Isabella Curry in 1868. Kathys grandfather was their son Alexander James Allen. Her father was their son
Isaac William Allen. He was a Presbyterian minister. My apologies for the slightly askew photography . Hurrying too much and having trouble with the lighting. Kathy has written out a basic family tree - as we think. The photos etc are from information in a Curry history written in 2004. Kathy's father researched a lot of this.
He died in 1998. Isaac Manaul Allen was in the Victorian Goldfields in 1857 with George Montgomery Allen. George bought property at Wolumla
on the Far South Coast of NSW. He then came to Kiama and married Rebecca Curry. In the info it says that Isaac Allen came
with George to visit the Curry family in Gerringong who they knew from Ireland. George married Rebecca and Isaac seems to
have vanished till he returned and married Isabella in 1868. This is where it is thought he was in America - reputed to be
at Harpers Ferry. He reappeared and married Isabella in 1868. In the obituary of Isabella it says that she was the wife of Isaac Allen and that he had spent several years fighting for the
south and making guns. He must have been quite a resourceful man as he either had money from goldfields or America as he purchased land at
Burrawang and built a house called Laurel Lodge. There is an early photo attached. A little more. In Australia they were staunch members of the Loyal Orange Lodge. I wonder if the Jack Johnston who wrote the
Glenhoy book, is a descendant of Lydia Curry and John Johnston ???
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A shred of information from my cousin Alan Lavelle who has some records of St Marks church Newtownsaville Mary Sabatha McNaul was baptised in the church in 6/12/1878 Her father was Edward and mother Eliza, from Tychany They may have been Presbyterian even though the ceremony was held in the Church of Ireland
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Although this is a COI church, I wonder if any Allen/McNauls are connected with it? I have my aunt Maggie still alive, she was married to William Lavelle who is buried there. Her sons Alan and Derek are big into Newtownsaville Orange Lodge Also I'm wondering what small local primary schools they all went to, maybe Rarogan, Garvaghy or Beltany?
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Thanks for all that Ken. If you could forward on what I sent last night , that would be excellent. Will print it out and try to work through it. I wonder if there was some confusion about the McNaul/Menaul who was married to Ann. From the headstone it says Mathew.
The 2 sons who went to America - John and James both became Ministers. Will have to discuss it with her. Will have to see if I can Samuel m Catherine Montgomery on the chart and the son
George Montgomery.
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Mc Nauls were connected with Tycany. The Isaac that came to Australia with cousin George Allen - where I was thinking that to be cousins there was a common Allen
involved ie Isaac's mother Ann Allen (m Mathew McNaul) and George's father Samuel would be brother and sister. Samuel is shown as having been born in Garvaghy. ( Father Joseph and mother Anne English) Maybe Ann Allen was born there too.
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If the McNauls were living in Tychany, which school would they have attended . Are there any old records . The Isaac in Australia must have had some good education. When he returned from the American Civil war and married he built
the house at Burrawang. He then built a Presbyterian Church. Then he crossed the road and built the Roman Catholic. Just an observation - in general it seems that the early immigrants to Australia from Nthn Ireland seemed to have stayed near
the Coast - as you can see with the Currys, Allens Montgomery etc they must have been having contact between Australia and home. Searching for Menauls anywhere, I found one in America from Five Mile Town.
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Hi Ken
I have found this site quite interesting. Have a query though.
How far way from Errigal is the church – I think known as Portclare now.
http://math.uww.edu/~mcfarlat/pictures/ulsterheart/ulsterheart_196.htm
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Today I had a look at the Public Records of Northern Ireland. They have the Births Deaths and Marriages for certain years. Unfortunately, I could not find out how to get into theChurch Records of Errigle Kerrogue . Will try again tomorrow or try to send an email and ask if I can or will have to wait till we are over there.
What I did find was a death for Mathew Menaul. They won’t let you copy it. If you want printed record then you need to buy the Certificate from them. Date slightly different to the memorial stone. He died on 24th August 1867. Stone said 17th August. Then another discrepancy with the headstone – Age 80 which would mean born 1887. Stone said 71. It said he was a farmer, suffered from debility for 1 year, certified by medical attendant. He was from Tychany, Clogher. Witness was William Menaul present at death. William was the son of Mathew and “Lady” Catherine Allen , born 1849.
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Was just looking up some shipping for the Parents of George Montgomery. – Samuel and Catherine.
I found something else strange – There was another Samuel Allen b 1803 , wife Mary and Family that came to Australia on a ship called the Thetsis.
They were from Clogher.
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Joy Fremlin wrote to her cousin Bill Allen, 9/1/1976
From a letter of Louise McDermott, of Belfast:
"When we were very small Daddy used to take us to visit an old Miss and Mrs Manaul(?) who lived near to the Halftown, in fact their farm lay between us and Curry's, they were some relation to the Curry's, what I don't know, so there were Manuels (?) in the family gooseberry bush. They were Presbyterian all right."
In her research, Joy found of the Allens (This family, originally from Stirling, settled in Co. Antrim in the 17th Century. From James Allen, representative elder of Randalstown at the Synod of Ulster in 1697, descended...."
What we don’t know is when the letter from Louise McDermott of Belfast was written. Kathy tells me Joy Fremlin was a distant cousin of her fathers and is now deceased . Currys were from Lisnawery.
Do you know if there is anything – letters ?? to show whether over the years the Allens in Ireland continued contact with the Scotland ones. An interesting thing as to why we wondered about this. Isaac Allen was in America at Harpers Ferry in the American Civil War. It has been said /claimed that he had worked in a ammunitions plant making rifles and that he had found a new way of rifling pipes for gun barrels in the Harper’s Ferry Arsenal which was being supplied by the arsenal from Bridge of Allan near Stirling.
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There is a book “Scotch Broth or Irish Stew” which mainly covers the George Montgomery/ Curry Family. Kathy has a copy. Some of the information that we sent before came out of this. It was a case of George and Isaac (cousins) marrying the Rebecca and Isabelle Curry (sisters).
There are also Family Trees for George Montgomery Allen on Ancestry which we have used to tie up that George’s father and Ann (McNaul) had to be sisters. It had been said in Kathy’s family that they thought his mother was Ann English. In fact it seems that it is his Grandmother.
It seems that Fay’s Gr Grandfather – George Montgomery Allen and Kathy’s Gr Grandfather Isaac Allen were cousins.
From what I can see is they share the same Gr Gr Gr Grandparents Joseph Allen and Ann English
- Trevor
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On 29/07/2017 22:36, Trevor Smith wrote:
A question about Allen's from Armagh. Have you ever heard where they came from. Just doing some searching on Ancestry. Found an Elizabeth Allen who was born in Carnage or Carnagh , Armagh. Her father was a Joseph Allen. She subsequently married in Ballygawley.
Could Carnagh be misspelt for Crannagh or Cranagh? - Kenny
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From Trevor - click to enlarge
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