Cardboard Currency Auction

(Last updated 2/13/2021)

Notes on how to submit Bids and "Deficit Spending"

• It makes my life easier if you submit a single bid on a single line as I have to copy the information over. Said differently, if you want to make two bids put it on two separate lines. If you want to make three bids, put it on three separate lines. Etc.

• It doesn't matter if you tell me by email or by Facebook Messenger, although I tend to get to Messenger quicker

• It doesn't matter if you tell me privately or put your bid on the "CCA: Bids and Photos" Messenger thread

Notes on how "Deficit Spending"

• The issue of spending more Chips than you have is one that has been discussed a lot. For this reason, we have created a "Checkbook" which keeps track of how many Chips you have in the Bank on the right hand side of the Bid Board. We note that it updates with every Bid, rather than just when Lots end (this way both bidders and submitters can tell what they have in real time)

• Some people have an aversion to "being in debt" (having less than 0 Chips in the bank). That is understandable, and is your choice. On the other hand, this is a game where we ONLY allow people in we trust, so it means we trust you will be able to make up a deficit over time. People routinely go way up and way down, especially since many people bid and submit in groupings. That's just fine. We ain't worried!

• For this reason, you can think of yourself as having been extended your own personal no-fee Credit Card. As long as you "pay it off" at some point all is well. We might "notice" if you go more than 10 Chips in debt, and ask about it, but we don't even blink if you are 5 Chips in debt. Perhaps we will encourage you to "put stuff on the board so other people can have more things to bid on." The way we see it is that we are just like supermarkets or other stores: allowing credit card spending makes more cards fly (and we don't even get a cut!). Bottom line: It's good for the system so, in fact, we encourage wise use of your credit card.

Notes on how to do Submissions

• Please write a description for your lot that can be directly copy/pasted into the spreadsheet. Ideally, it should follow the format described below.

• It is always good advertising to post pictures to the "CCA: Bids and Photos" Messenger thread. If you aren't on Facebook Messenger send it to me and I'll do it for you. Pictures are not required, but we have observed Lots with pictures get more and better bids.

• Lot Submission Formatting notes:

  • Put the year first. This is done since some people search by year. Please add in the 19 in it (i.e., 1957 rather than `57). If there is more than one year, things get more complicated but as long as it's clear this isn't a problem. You'll just have to finesse it Feel free to ask for feedback/help.

  • After the year, indicated the brand (e.g., Topps, Bowman, Goudey etc.)

  • Indicate if it isn't baseball.

  • If it's one card or a small lot give all the card numbers for set collectors. This is also a good place to indicate a player name. If it's multiple cards, indicate how many.

  • Next indicate something about the condition. For the case where a photo is posted, people can judge for themselves if they are on Messenger. If they aren't, they need to rely on your description. Typically saying "fair" or "VG/EX" does the trick. Then again, more detail is helpful "small creases, soft corners", or "Lots of creases", "Bad creases", "Writing on front", "Paper loss on back", "Marked checked list", "sharp corners" are all useful comments. . We have found that the phrase "OBC Condition" means very different things to different people so we encourage not using it for that reason.

  • Some good examples that can easily be copy/pasted:

    • 1965 Topps high #556 Schoendienst. Corner wear upper right and lower left. VG. No creases.

    • 1972 Topps Baseball #622 MVP Award & #624 Minor Lg. POY Award, both VG+

    • 1975 Wonder Bread FB Bob Griese, #13 Good

    • 2020 Topps Heritage starter set 270+ cards. Will also include inserts and at least 4 SPs.

(Last updated 2/18/2021)

The thresholds and corrections as of 2/18/2021 are:

• Small Market Rebate Threshold: 0.25 Chips

• "Beat out a bunt bonus": Winner gets 0.08 Chips back if the winning bid is 0.25 Chips (costs only 0.17 Chips to bid 0.25 Chips)

• "Cost of Shipping rebate": 0.08 Chips is added to the Submitters tally if the winning bid is 0.25 Chips (Submitter gets 0.33 Chips)

• Luxury Tax Threshold: 2 Chips

• "High End Listing Fee": Submitter pays 0.31 Chips for any item won over 2 Chips (pays back 0.31 from the final bid)

• "Luxury Tax": Winner pays 0.31 Chips for any item won over 2 Chips (pays 0.31 Chips in addition to the final bid)

The Cardboard Currency Auction uses the Dr. Chaos Small Market Correction System, and these numbers are kept on the Checkbook on the right of the main spreadsheet

Quick Summary: To correct for the small market nature of the CCA, get more cards fly, and help the folks who don’t have lots of big cards to submit we will be instituting the Dr. Chaos Small Market Correction System. It has two complementary features:

1) The "Beat out a bunt" Program: This is to encourage people to not be afraid to post small value Lots, and for people to not worry about spending Chips on little things as a way of saving for big things. For all lots that are won with only a quarter chip bid (the "Small Market Rebate Threshold"), the game will give the Submitter an extra amount of to offset the "Cost of Shipping" and the winning bidder who "beats out the bunt" will get a "beat out the bunt" bonus for having bid. These will be adjusted over time to make things balance and the current values are given above.

2) The "Luxury Tax": For all Lots that that go for a high chip value (Luxury Tax Threshold) we there will be a High End Listing Fee from the Submitter, and a Luxury Tax imposed on the Winner. These will be adjusted over time to make things balance and the current values are given above.

The combination of all these will show up as the Small Market Correction column in the Bank on the main spreadsheet. Dr. Chaos reserves the right to change these thresholds for the good of the game, and to keep the balance, at any time.

More details for the interested:

Problem Statement: The CCA is designed as a card relocation game and in many ways is doing quite well (over 3,500 lots submitted as of this update). On the other hand there are imperfections. The data shows that by allowing market elements to do their magic (in addition to regular RAOK) the game produces both more submissions as well as lots of high end cards. That’s a good thing. On the other hand, we have a “biased” market because we only have about 30 players, and perhaps more importantly almost all being in OBC we mostly have the same wants, needs and dupes. In particular, for the things people really want, LOTS of people want it and the price goes up due to simple supply-and-demand. That’s a good thing and a bad thing. On the good side it means people get lots of chips when they do something good for the group. On the bad side, the same supply-and-demand effect it means that for the Lots submitted with cards that most of us already they don’t get the bids they deserve. Not surprisingly, it gets worse because people "wisely" save up for the “big” cards and bid even less on the "little stuff". The market (a small or biased market in this case is doing what is expected). Looking at the data more we note that the most common winning bid is a quarter chip these days. From the market's perspective, it is what it is it. For the people, this is good and bad. It’s good because Winners get things for a bargain, but it’s bad because it takes the fun out of the game for the submitter. The double-whammy for them is that they don’t have Chips to spend (which makes fewer cards fly). The trifecta is that sending a stamp or a puffy for a quarter Chip also rots. Finally, while the market is doing it's thing, there ugly reality that some have bigger/deeper boxes than others and it can make people feel helpless in accumulating chips or winning the really "nice stuff". There is incentive to just leave the game and not play the game even if it is "fair" internally because it is unfair relative to what you could get/pay on a larger market like eBay or a card show. The goal of the CCA is not to get the Chips to fly, but to get the CARDS to fly. We want it to be fun for EVERYONE. We want ALL the cards to fly to a new home where they will be appreciated. Said differently, it’s almost like we have two combined markets, neither is like the outside/full card market: One for “the good stuff” (according to players) and one for the stuff people don’t value as much (UV, or 60’s and 70’s that everyone already has). The small-market problem needs some assistance from a benevolent dictator.

Goal: Get more of the cards in some lots to find good homes, and help the people who submit them without ruining the market for the high end stuff.

Plan: The game will be played such that the submitter of any item won with a quarter chip gets a bonus. If someone posts something that would be enjoyed in its new home, that’s a good thing and it should be encouraged. If no one wants the Lot, so be it. Even a single bid shows that it would be enjoyed. Submitters should be encouraged to find things that SOMEONE wants. Players should be encouraged to bid everything, not just the "good stuff." To pay for this we levy a small "tax" on all Lots that generate high value.

Answers to Commonly Asked Questions:

• Why not just make the minimum bid a half a chip? This is a fair question. Although most of the answer is in the Problem Statement, we'll say more. The data from the Dr. Chaos Wauction (which predates many of our current players, and wasn't REALLY a Wauction) indicated that a large minimum bid had the effect of lots of people not playing much because they didn't have much that would get a bid, so they never had Chips to bid so they effectively (or explicitly) dropped out. Said differently, we never got many people or many lots and it spiraled down as those two compounded each other. A third way of saying it: If nobody wants a Lot, then no one should bid. But if someone wants it, even a little, if OBC can have Waivers, we should have a mechanism for matching bidders and submitters. But since we clearly have many players with "small" dupes boxes without a small minimum bid they can't accumulate chips and can't even afford the bargains when they show up. For this reason, we dropped the minimum bid from a single Chip to a quarter Chip. Once that happened a bunch more lots got Bids, more people had Chips to bid, and the positive cycle picked up. Simple economics tells us that if you raise the minimum bid amount a lot more of the lots won't go. Yes, that would improve the quality of the lots, but that's not the goal. The goal is to make cards fly. That means any card that gets to it new home would is a win for the game. Perhaps a better question is "Why not lower the minimum bid?" The reason for this is that if there is only one person who wants something (not unexpected for a small group where everyone likes the same stuff) is that it allows it to be even FURTHER undersold which is bad for the seller (which hurts their ability to bid). Is this a Regressive Tax or a Progressive Tax. According to https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/regressivetax.asp it looks like we have a little of both. Does this hurt the guys with good stuff in their dupes boxes more than the little guy? In some ways, yeah. Does it inhibit submitting big cards? In some ways, yeah. There is a "tax" on all cards above 2 Chips. On the other hand, the tax is a quarter Chip for a 2 Chip Submission and a 6 Chips Submission. Who gets screwed the most? The folks who submit lots of 2 Chip cards, and never bid on little stuff. Your BDFL can live with this as those are they folks who can afford to be most generous.

The "STARTING X" Program (the original program, the Starting Nine can be found here, and was the brain child of Aaron Shirley)

(Last updated 1/3/2021)

What the heck is a STARTING 9? Or a Starting 8, or Starting 2 or whatever number. (That IS what the X is for above, right?)

In a few words words: ME, offering YOU, some number of cards, from (typically) ONE set. It's meant to help you started on a new project or make progress on an old one where I have a bunch of cards and you have some needs. It's designed to be win-win.

Example: "Starting 5 from 1955 Topps - 200 to choose from, typically between G and VG". This means that the Submitter has 200 commons from 1955 Topps for you to choose from, and the winner will work with them to pick the 5 they want.

Some notes since there is some trust involved here:

• The bidder shouldn't expect to hand-pick 9 stars or short prints/high numbers. A reasonable assumption is that it's just commons.

• It's very reasonable for a potential Bidder to ask the Submitter "Hey... do you have any on my list?" before bidding

• If, by mutual agreement, the submitter and winner choose to change the deal that is fine. Some examples:

  1. Feel free to add extra cards and just make it worth more chips. This is easy as you can just tell the Admin about the final Chip total and he will adjust it accordingly. More specific example: if the final bid price was 1.0 Chips for 5 cards, and if the winner wants 18 cards and the lot submitter can do it, then the final Bid amount can be changed to 3 Chips. Or 3.25, or 3.5 or whatever.

  2. Let's say the Submitter has two HOFers and both agree that a single Chip covers it, that's also fine.

  3. Other possibilities include a Star card and and two commons. Or a nicer grade one... or pick other years... or whatever. Or the Bidder only wants SP's/HN's, then take that into account SOMEHOW. The goal is to get the cards to fly, empty dupes boxes and get cards find their new happy home.

  4. If people can't work it out, Dr. Chaos is happy to help mediate. He can also just cancel the deal. Or offer it to the next highest bidder by agreement... or whatever.

• Submitters: Feel free to use variations on this theme. A "Pick 2" is fine. Heck, a "Pick 1" is fine. On the other side, a Starting 15, Starting 20 or even 30 are fine for lower cost items like UV.