Interviewed by Manal Murangi
October 2020
Manal- How are you?
Nuala - I’m good I’m hanging in there
M- Okay, awesome great. Alright so first of all I just want to say thank you so much for meeting with me. Such a privilege to be able to talk to you and I really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule and everything.
So I want to introduce myself, my name is Manal, Manal Murangi. I’m a senior Cinematic Arts major, and photography minor at UMBC. I don’t know what else- I’m taking an art and resistance class, just kind of as a personal interest, I’m really interested in the intersection in art and history and activism. I try to integrate it as much as I can into my work so when I came across your work and I learned that you were a filmmaker I was just automatically hooked and very very interested in what you were doing. I wanted to start off before we hop into any of the actual interview part of it, just get to know you a little bit
So first of all how are you doing this morning?
N - I’m doing good. I always try to get up early and be productive and then just do random things. Like helping my dad set up a venmo and responding to a bunch of random emails, but you know I’m doing fine.
M- Good. Good to hear.
N - It's been a heavy time, and I think for many of us, I don’t know about you but I think I’m trying to manage busy-ness and also staying still.
M - Yeah, I definitely, definitely get that, I’ve been trying to manage it. It's been a very stressful time. So how have you been dealing with working during this time?
N - Yeah, so I work at a foundation that supports community media in Philadelphia. We’re already working remotely for the most part anyways, we’ve had a shared office space. But we’ve been working from home since March and it's okay, it's different. I miss a team of folks. But I’m really grateful I’m able to work from home.
M - And are you based in Philadelphia? Do you live there?
N - Yup. I live in Philly and I’ve lived here for around 11 years and almost 12 years. I’m from Rhode Island originally.
M - Oh wow, okay cool. How different is it?
N - Rhode Island is really different. There’s not as much to do but its really beautiful, we have pretty beaches and nature. And Providence is actually really diverse culturally, ethnically, so a lot of immigrant populations, and communities...some good food.
M - Bit of a weird question, that I always like to ask people is, what's your workspace like? I’m always curious about where artists find their physical spaces to work.
N - I mean, I haven’t had an office for a really long time. I just use my kitchen table usually when I’m home. But uh, I very recently got an office. I haven’t done a lot of creative -- I’ve done creative work with activism -- but I haven’t made a film for myself in a long time. Like the last film that I made for myself was Walking Home, thats in 2009. So its been a long time, I mean I’ve done work with different projects like FAAN Mail and BYP100 and other little works, but my focus for the last 7 - 10 years has been on youth media and helping young people make films. So I’m up very late in the office, with them. Or you know editing, tweaking some stuff. I think for me, like many artists, you do other work to pay the bills, and sometimes that takes over and your art goes on the back burner. I think as artists we have to be really intentional about making space.
M - Yeah yeah absolutely.
N - And continue our work. I haven’t been the best at it to be honest.
M - Well I mean fair enough. I think you’re doing really important work. So what is it that drew you to youth media?
N - I was at Temple University in grad school studying media literacy and media education and different things. I thought it was going to be for media studies but I ended up taking half of my classes in the urban education department. And I started working with young people while I was in grad school, and then got some teaching gigs when I left and that led into a full time job at Youth Media, leading a youth media programs for youth organization, that was based at Temple. And what drew me to it was working with Black and brown youth, helping them tell their stories, noticing that when I was younger, my interest in media making and storytelling started when I was in middle school, but I never took any classes or did any programs to nurture that and it wasn’t until my senior year in college that I took a video class and made a film that I edited. And showing that film in festivals and conferences really opened my eyes that this could be more than a hobby, this could be something that I could take seriously. I could create content that was compelling enough to move people, stop and think, and maybe act differently or create conversation. So I wish that I had those experiences when I was a teenager because I think it would’ve helped me -- I mean I got there. But I just see the value in it. So I love working with young people, I love doing social justice programming with the social justice media program, it's called POPPYN -- Presenting Our Perspectives on Philly Youth News. So it was a journalism program, but they were also making documentaries, and short narrative pieces, and learning about critical media literacy. So that was my focus for 7 years.
M - One of the questions I had, and one of the things I struggle with as an artist is that I know being a Black woman can in and of itself kind of be an act of activism, so I’m wondering how do you dedicate energy outside of just being. How do you have the energy to create work that activist based, and you know, dedicate your life to it when it's such a heavy and large part of your everyday life?
N - I think for me, my work, my activism and my art came from a personal place, wanting to just tell a story. Or analyze, better understand something that I was confused by. You know, my very first film was about women of color and hip hop, and I was just grappling with misogyny and misogynoir and hip hop. And you know, being somebody who grew up with hip hop and loved it and was constantly in spaces where we would be listening and dancing but feeling like kind of contradicting myself as a black woman to be dancing to some of this and not questioning it. So the film was really a way to explore that complexity, and generate conversation.
I think with Walking Home, too, it started from a personal place. I’m tired of walking down the street every day and experiencing harassment, every day, like I don’t understand why it's so normalized. And this is 20 years ago, where I felt back then it wasn’t as much of a conversation. We weren’t talking about rape culture and consent as much. For me, again, it was like an entry point to explore something that really pissed me off.
When I talk to students and we’re exploring ideas around what to create, I often say “What's something that really pisses you off? What’s something that confuses you, that you’d really like some clarity on? And whats something that you really love to explore and maybe it's something that you don’t see a lot of stories about in mainstream media?" And I think those can be good prompts to help people explore passion, because sometimes passion comes from a place of rage, and for me with Walking Home, came from a place of anger and frustration. So I think for me, creating those pieces and then sharing them publicly, I think that is really important. I think opportunities to share your work publicly and engage community, that helped inspire me to then do stuff with it. And I feel like ever since that's what I’ve been doing. For me the media was an entry point, and now I’m still doing the activist work as a result, and as an outcome of that. So for Walking Home, at the time I was thinking about street harassment, I wasn’t thinking about rape culture. I wasn’t thinking about transphobia, I wasn’t thinking about consent.
But that opportunity, and then the opportunity to help young people make their own films about street harassment, and then later sexual violence. And then that grew into the consent workshop program that I oversaw in 20 Philly schools where we would bring college student to facilitate workshops about consent using the media created by the high school students. I just saw this huge need, that young people were hungry to have these conversations and they weren’t happening. Teachers often weren’t equipped to have them; to facilitate them in a way that was culturally responsive or address systems of oppression like white supremacy. So that's what inspired me to create Educators for Consent Culture, which is the work I’ve been organizing with most recently. It came from the realization that these workshops were really impactful, but we were only reaching 25 students at a time, for an hour and a half if we’re lucky. But we’re not going to disrupt culture that way. The school district is not committed to disrupting rape culture, or making sure students understand or staff understand what consent is. So how do we create a culture shift by mobilizing and educating? Educators, and bringing young people in too.
So that’s the work I’ve been doing lately, I actually have a meeting later with an artist, this dope artist, I’ll send you her info. But she does paper cutting. So intricate, and she does a lot of paper cutting thats inspired by different social justice issues, and she made a series of pieces related to consent. So we reached out to her to see if she could partner with us on a art workshop series where now it has to be through Zoom unfortunately, but we’re trying to create space where people can tell their stories about consent and let that inspire some creative art-making with Julia, the artist, hopefully people on the call will be inspired to also do some work, some art work and writing.
I don’t know, I feel like my focus originally was about creating the idea, then it was about sharing and making that media and that impact with community, and helping young people make their own media and do the same. Then it kind of grew into being more concerned about rape culture, and seeing student harassment as a symptom of rape culture, and trying to figure out how to shift this through organizing. Now I work at a foundation. Independence Public Media Foundation, it's new, it's a new private foundation that supports community media, and media artists and storytellers. So I’m able to now support this creative media making as a funder, which is very different.
M - Its a very different world almost from creating the documentary guerilla-style filmmaking to funding. Are you liking the difference, or do you wish you were creating more?
N - I really miss working with young people and helping them create media. I really miss youth development. I think at some point I might return to that. But, it was an amazing experience and it helped me grow a lot, and it was very fulfilling but it wasn’t sustainable. So I was constantly doing other gigs on the side, and wearing three hats at my organization and not getting paid well. It just wasn’t sustainable. I want to be able to live by myself without roommates, I’m 40. I took this job and I’ve been able to have more of a work-life balance and reach some goals. I recently bought a house this year, which was a goal to do before I turn 40. I was able to save a little bit at my other job, but it really just wasn’t sustainable. This is where I’m at right now. I don’t know how long I’ll be able to do this. But I do like that I’m able support Black and brown artists, and youth artists. This foundation is going to have a huge impact on the lives of local media makers and I want to make sure that Black and brown folks and other folks in marginalized communities are getting the funding and support. I know what it feels like to want to do something, do your calling, and not be supported. So I’m basically trying to do everything I can and also to challenge philanthropy because the sector is also wrought with a lot of issues around not trusting communities.
M - As a funder do you look at applications, and then decide where you want to throw your money or the organizations money? What kind of projects do you guys fund?
N - There’s different ways that grants get submitted. Sometimes, we’ve had a nominations process, where the foundation identified theaters and media makers in the field and asked them to nominate 3 organizations with the understanding that at least one of them would receive $25,000. Many of the organizations that were nominated received that money, so that was one process. They’ve got another process where a foundation will do some research and identify some groups that they want to submit a proposal. Then if the proposal is strong enough, and aligns with the foundations mission, they’ll get funded. And then the other way that I’ve seen is through an open call, where it's public and anyone can submit during a certain time period.
M - Is it more for groups or individual projects?
N - Right now, it’s mostly been organizations, but in some cases, there are four different organizations that we gave money to, that then are able to re-grant to independent artists. Like Leeway Foundation, which supports women as artists, that do arts for social change. Another great organization you might be interested in. So we gave them funding to create a fund just for media artists.
M - Do you think rape culture is going anywhere? Do you think it's improving, or do you think we’re just talking in circles and we’re having these long conversations that kind of feel fruitless?
N - I think that we’re experiencing some shifts for sure. I think things are better than they were five years ago, or ten years ago. But we still have a serial rapist in office right now. Yeah, I feel you, some days it really feels like we’re not getting anywhere, and other days you feel okay. But I think ultimately more people know what rape culture is. More people understand why victim blaming is wrong. More people understand that dress codes enforce rape culture and are problematic. I’m hopeful but I think we have to keep pushing and also make sure that people understand the intersections. There’s just a lot of ways that white supremacy, homophobia, transphobia intersect with rape culture, and people aren’t always equipped to talk about those nuances, and I think that that’s a big piece of what we have to do. I feel like I have no choice but to be hopeful. My partner and I talk about this a lot. It's such a heavy time, but we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for our ancestors being hopeful and pushing through, so what’s the option? I’m not going to just give up. But yes, of course there are moments where it just feels really challenging.
M - It’s just one thing after the other after the other. And it feels like every conversation has to be had right now, especially with how quick news comes and goes. How do you focus in on one issue? I find myself wanting to tell all the stories.
N - I think that’s a great question. One of the questions I ask people who come - like white people come and send me emails about their projects and how they want funding. First of all, I’m always somewhat surprised of the audacity that people - white men in particular - have about reaching out to a foundation asking for funding. I would never, ever have thought to just cold email someone like that, in a very casual way. But my question is why are you the person to tell this story? Are you telling a story that is rooted from your personal experience, or connected to you in some way or just something that you’re curious about? If it's just something you’re curious about and it involves communities sharing their stories and being vulnerable, are you accountable, or how are you accountable to those communities? Are you in the right relationships with those communities? Do they want you to tell these stories? For me, it's what's the story that’s on your heart, write it all down, know you have time, but think about what’s most pressing to you in this moment, and what’s the best story for this moment and are you the person to tell it. If you’re not the person to tell it, then maybe you can find people who might be interested in telling it and work with them. Those are the questions I ask. But you’re young, you have time.
M - One last question that I have for you today is if you could be creating right now, what would you create? Just for yourself, for your heart, whether you want to share it or not.
N - Something that I’ve been thinking about lately, is that my parents are starting to age, and I’ve documented my grandmother over the years, she’s about to be 102. I was for a long time focused on her story, and then my parents started getting older and having health issues and I was like “Ah, sh*t.” I need to document them too. I’m really interested in oral history and preserving memory of family. I’m also interested in how we as adults who have aging parent are navigating losing parents, navigating them getting older, becoming caretakers. How our parents are navigating loss, a lot of their friends and family members are passing away. How they’re managing that loss, grief, and aging. The relationships between family members when these changes start happening. I’ve been in conversation with a few friends who also have parents who they’ve lost, or who are aging and thinking about how we don’t talk about it that much. I don’t know, I haven’t seen a lot of films about that, especially from POC folks, and so it's just something I’ve been thinking about. How can I honor their memories, and also honor the challenges many of us are seeing, watching our parents get older?
M - Wow, that’s incredible. I hope that you get to, and I hope to see it someday. Thank you so much for your time. I had a lovely time talking to you and learning so much from you today.