Nekisha Durrett, interviewed by Sara Barrelas
October 2020
Sara: To get started would you mind telling me a little about yourself, where you come from, and some of your influences?
Nekisha: So I was actually born in DC and lived there until I went away to college in the 90s and went to Cooper Union. I didn't choose a major. We didn't have to choose majors. So I just tried to kind of dabble in whatever I could. I wanted to be a children's book illustrator, and then I would say probably by around my junior year, I got kind of bored with drawing and painting so I started to study photography and by the end it was time to start applying to graduate schools and MFA programs. I had amassed a pretty sizable photography portfolio. I figured it'd be easier for me to try to get into photography programs then drawing, painting, or sculpture. I ended up going to University of Michigan for photography and then I came back to DC. I really didn't want to be back in DC. I kind of wanted to go back to New York. But all my friends who lived in New York were couch-surfing and it just sounded miserable. So I thought, why don't I just stay here, stay with my parents, save some money and maybe I can make it kind of worthwhile. I ended up getting a job at the Smithsonian and I stayed with the Smithsonian for about 10 years and I was making large-scale graphics and working in the graphics department at what's called the office of exhibits center. I did that for two years and started making these large-scale graphics and started to notice a change in my work and that my work was starting to get larger as I was working in these large formats and installing big photo murals and exhibitions. I continued similar work working at the Portrait Gallery. I kind of wasn't making work for a long time. And then, when I did finally start making work again, it was really large and someone was like, “Oh, you know, you should start making Public Works,” and so that was kind of how that got started making these large-scale public works.
Sara: That's pretty cool, honestly. Are you still living in DC?
Nekisha: I still live in DC. I live in a little neighborhood called Petworth. During COVID, you know, I’m just kind of looking at the same four walls with my wife. I just kind of needed to get out of the area and so we're here in Vermont where she has some family and so they're going to be coming to visit soon. The colors, the foliage, it's all beautiful.
Sara: Well, it's always nice to get a change of scenery. So, my next question for you is why did you choose the career that you currently have?
Nekisha: That's a good question because I've been asking my niece that question who is applying to colleges and I'm like, you know, I know it seems like things just happen to you. But really you make these choices and you know, you're leading your path and things just happen. I'm saying that to her and I'm thinking well, I can't remember the moment when I was like, oh I'm going to be an artist. Because it just was kind of always something that I was doing. I was always kind of making things, drawing, and kind of pushing myself to make my drawings more complex. I wasn't very athletic. I was tomboyish. It wasn't really acceptable for me to play and roughhouse with the boys or anything. But I remember being young and anyone in my class who could draw happened to be a boy. That was kind of a way that was acceptable for me to be with the boys a little bit and they kind of accepted me within that group. So yeah, it was kind of just gratifying in that sense. That was my skill set was that my contribution to the kind of social scene at school was that I could draw very well and you know, it wasn't until much later that I realized that I could actually try to make a living at making art. All my family members are government workers and security is a big thing for them. They’re very supportive of my art-making but they were also like, you know, you might want to focus on more commercial aspects of making graphic design things. That was how they understood that you can make money and make a living in art and have a stable secure life.
Sara: Well, when you start off with something that you're good at and it just kind of feels like it's in your nature. So, yeah, I get that. What kind of work do you most enjoy doing?
Nekisha: I really like making site-specific works. It's difficult to pin down a particular medium that I like over another because I don't like to be nailed down in that way. I like to engage in projects where I'm going to learn how to use a different kind of material, I'm going to pick up some kind of new skill. I like doing things that are site-specific because it forces me to look at my environment that I may have perceived as being familiar, but kind of like digging beneath the surface and discovering new things about that place and bringing those to the surface. Those histories that belong to that space, to the surface, things that people aren’t necessarily aware of about a particular place. So I like for people to somehow experience something in a different way and in a way that they weren't expecting if that makes sense.
Sara: That makes a lot of sense. Who or what inspires you as a person or as an artist when you're making these different works?
Nekisha: It kind of varies. I think it's probably not typically what people would expect. People may assume that there's an artist or something that you admire or something that drives you in a particular direction. What I would consider to be one of my most successful pieces was inspired by my grandmother and her migration from the south to Upstate New York. So, I think personal stories like discovering something new about a person that I didn't know before inspires me. I would say it sounds cliche but actually being in the natural world actually inspires me a lot even though I'm not really like an outdoorsy person. I feel that whenever I'm in nature, I’m just able to tap into this beauty at its purest form. It is really inspiring to me and when I think back to the Genesis of certain projects that I've done, the ones that are most successful, usually I got the idea in a natural space. Maybe I was out for a hike or you know, there's a certain tree that I passed by all the time. Certain things that I read about nature are really interesting to me. There’s this book about Robert McFarland, and it’s called The Underworlds and it’s all about the world that exists beneath our feet. We're always considering what's in the space above the ground. Really there's this whole untapped universe that is right under where we are and that's such a compelling metaphor when you think about the history of a place. How we just build on top of the land and we build on top of that and we build on top of that but there's still this land that has this haunting presence and untapped depth that is inspiring to me.
Sara: I've actually been thinking a lot about that lately. I think about what the world used to look like where I am right now and what did this place look like a hundred, two hundred, or even thousand years ago. That's actually really interesting that that inspires you.
Nekisha: Yeah, there's actually a really good movie and it’s called A Ghost Story. Have you seen it?
Sara: No, I have not seen that.
Nekisha: Oh it that is one of my favorite all-time movies. It has a Rooney Mara and Casey Affleck and they live in this house in Texas. He loves history. He's totally obsessed with this place. He ends up getting in a car crash outside of the house. Time gets reset so that he can get to this particular point again. He goes back in time and he goes to before there are even human inhabitants on that land and then you see there are indigenous people. It's just really amazing.
Sara: I'm always looking for a new movie so I will definitely watch it. It sounds really interesting. My next question for you is, who are you trying to connect with as an artist? Does your work reach out to a specific group of individuals?
Nekisha: You know weirdly, it's not to any group that I can like put my finger on. I do feel like I'm always trying to connect with someone who was like myself when I was particularly 8 years old and looking for myself in the world. I feel like in a way I'm always trying to address that person who is looking for a particular story to identify with or a certain language that might be familiar to them. I think about the piece that I did with the phrase, ‘Yes Lawd’ on it. That all came about because I was thinking, I remember when the New Museum in New York opened and they had this public art on the outside of the building that said hell yes on it. It was in these rainbow colors. It just seemed as if I wasn't the particular audience for that specific piece.Then I thought to myself, what would I put up on that building? I thought about that for years and then I had this opportunity to create this large text on this big open field at Walter Reed Hospital. I chose the ‘Yes Lawd’ because that was something that was a phrase that I had heard my whole life. My grandparents would say that like it was punctuation. It was something I heard all the time to the point where I didn't really think about it until I heard James Baldwin say the phrase in a speech and I thought wow it would be really cool to elevate that language. So I ended up cutting and mowing it into this huge green field.
Sara: That was one that caught my eye particularly.
Nekisha: Oh cool. Yeah, that was another one of my favorites. That was another piece that I felt like was really successful. I just thought it was really strong.
Sara: Alrighty. So how do you move an audience from awareness to engagement?
Nekisha: Mmm, I'm still trying to figure that out yet. Yeah, to be honest. I haven't.
Sara: To me it kind of just sounds like you're just trying to connect and that's what you're trying to engage them with. Just trying to connect with them.
Nekisha: I'm actually engaging with my students about that right now. You can't preach to the choir I guess. I'm thinking about a piece I'm working on right now, which will be the focus of my solo exhibition. It’s my Magnolia project where I'm perforating the names of Black women, who have been murdered by police, into magnolia leaves. I guess with that work I feel like it's challenging in the sense that when I post it, I would think, “Wow, why should I be posting this right now?” I think that maybe it's insensitive of me to post the names of these women who've been killed but that's exactly what I should be doing because it's very important for the names of these Black women to be lifted up as well. I feel like there's no way to actually have police reform unless you look at all of the ways that it affects the Black community and by ignoring it you'll just never get to that point where there's complete reform. So, I guess I say that to say I don’t know if I’m pushing people to engagement. I feel like hopefully I'm making people more aware and that I'm kind of a part of that conversation of lifting up these women's names and bringing about awareness. I’m sorry. I’m not answering that well. I just don’t know if I’m good at that. I think there are artists who are amazing at pushing people to the point of engagement.
Sara: No, I appreciate your honesty. From what you're saying, just bringing about awareness can get people to engage themselves. So that's also a way of getting the audience to get up and go do something. I know a lot of times I've seen artwork about the Black Lives Matter Movement and then I do my research and go out and want to make a change. So even if the artist is not inherently trying to get me to engage they are because they sparked something in my mind too. My next question for you is how has covid-19 impacted your job or your artwork?
Nekisha: So, I'm teaching virtually. That's one of my jobs. At the beginning and early phases of the pandemic I couldn't go to my studio. I just didn't feel safe going to my studio so I had to actually start speaking about ways that I can make my work just sitting at my kitchen table. And that was one of the ways in which the Magnolia project came about because you know each one of those leaves are small. I could pretty much just have a couple of tools and clean up my mess later. We can have our dinner at the table and my wife wouldn't be too mad at me. I actually started thinking about making my work smaller. My work isn't usually very collectible. It's not very collector friendly because it is so big. This kind of forced me to think about making works that they can be more easily mounted on the wall or smaller. With this project specifically, it was made with the intention of addressing a social political issue. I was actually supposed to be working on some other work that was about my grandmother and that was going to be a part of an exhibit installation in New York, but I had postponed that because in order for me to make that work I was going to have to work with other people. I had to scale back a great deal. The work that I ended up making ended up being more impactful. I was talking to other Black artists about it after George Floyd's murder and the Black Lives Matter protests and then suddenly it was like everybody wanted to know what Black artists were doing. They wanted to know how they were addressing the situation. I've done more artist talks and had invitations to be part of exhibitions. I feel like I have been more busy than I ever have. Other Black artists that I know have been talking a lot about this feeling of overexposure.
Sara: Yeah. No, it's definitely been a very long and crazy year. I can see how that would make you a lot busier. There's just been a lot happening so I can definitely understand where you’re coming from. There’s always something happening. I feel like I'm constantly trying to process something after I’ve finished processing the last thing. Every day is like a new obstacle. What are some obstacles that you face in your line of work? How do you overcome those obstacles?
Nekisha: A big obstacle for me for a long time was when I had to keep talking about my work. I did not like talking about my work. That was a huge challenge. I would almost rather say no to an exhibition out of fear of having to do an artist talk or a conversation during the show. I can actually specifically remember doing that. I think that had been an obstacle for me that I had to work really hard at. I always felt like the work that I was making was aesthetically pleasing and that I made it very well. But, when it came to actually talking about my personhood and talking about myself, my story, or my family’s story I had a hard time seeing value in it. I just didn't see stories like that lifted up in the world. There was a collector of my work who I was speaking with and she asked me, “What is your story? Why are you making work?” I just could not answer her at all. Then I just started pushing myself really hard to pin that down. I just had to write everything down and I ended up addressing both issues at once - my fear of public speaking and you know, this feeling like my story didn't have work. I was invited to do this talk. It's a series called Nasty Women Talk. I was 26. The Arlington Arts Center invited women to share their stories. That was when things just connected for me and I realized how I could talk about my work. I realized that, wow, my story has worth and people want to hear me talk about these things.
Sara: I can definitely relate to that. I still do have a really hard time talking to people. I have such a fear of public speaking and I also really don't like talking about myself. Something about it just makes me feel like I'm putting the spotlight on me and I don't like it. I don't like being the center of attention in a room. So I would rather just not talk about myself. But, I'm trying to overcome it because I know as a young artist if I want to get my work out in the world that people are going to ask questions. They're going to want to know about me and who's behind the work. It's something I'm definitely going to have to work really hard at. So, I'm on the same boat as you.
Nekisha: It's such a place of vulnerability. You're vulnerable and then you're opening yourself up to judgment and whatever else but it's worth it in the end. It's a great opportunity for connection. I realized that my story has worth and that there's someone out there who's going to really connect with my story. It's just not that bad.
Sara: It's good to hear that someone like you who is successful in my eyes has the same fears that I have. It's good to hear that you had to overcome those obstacles because it’s something I usually internalize. So, I did see that a lot of your work was out in DC and I know you kind of already answered this but, is your work site specific and if so why?
Nekisha: Yeah, typically the public works are site specific. I think that there's so much competing information in the world. I just see people walking around, and I'm guilty of it too, just walking around kind of looking at my phone and not really paying attention to their environment. My hope is that I can get someone to just look up from their phone for a minute and discover something new, magical, and unexpected about the place where they live or this place that they feel is familiar and predictable. That actually there can be some unknown truth that is just right there in front of their nose, waiting to be discovered. The piece that I had in Golden Triangle at Dupont Circle in DC was this rather odd looking structure that had this little peep hole in it and you look through the peephole and you see the urban landscape replaced by this natural landscape with a stream, trees, and clouds. That was inspired by a hike that I went on by the way. But yeah, that was directly addressing that place during pre-colonial times. There were trees that were in the area that had medicinal properties that indigenous people would use to heal themselves. That's not something that people think about when you're walking downtown. It's just something that we take for granted. The sewage systems and the roadways were actually the main waterways that were in DC and so the architecture and the infrastructure of the city is actually formed by these natural occurrences.
Sara: That really is amazing. Now that you’ve mentioned that, I will have to think about that more when I’m walking around in cities. What kind of change do you wish you could see either locally, nationally, or worldwide in your lifetime?
Nekisha: An activist friend of mine and I started this group and I was in this breakout room and that was one of the questions that they asked. The answer that I wish that I said that somebody else said is that they would do away with the Electoral College. I was like man, that is really perfect. Do away with the Electoral College.
I also just wish that people could also treat everyone with equity and see the value in every human life. I mean, I feel like that would solve a lot of our problems. I also wish people would see the value in the environment and for people to understand that our resources will run out.
Sara: I definitely agree. I hope to see those in my lifetime too. Hopefully the younger generation comes in and fixes everything they can.
Nekisha: My students get mad at me because I tell them they are the ones that are going to change everything. They say, “We're just kids.” But, that’s the point. They’re young, fresh and new souls ready to work.
Sara: Is there anything you are currently working on that you'd like to discuss? I know you're working on the Magnolia Project.
Nekisha: Yeah, that’s a big one. That's pretty much what I'm working on right now. Most of the leaves are done. I have 35 leaves so far. I would like to continue doing it. I had to kind of stop doing it, focus on teaching, and also other projects that kept popping up. Yeah, but the leaves are pretty much done. Right now I'm focusing on making the light boxes that they'll be contained in because they need to be backlit. So, that's an interesting process and I'm trying to figure out ways to embed some symbolism in the way that the light boxes are made. I don't want just some light box, you know. I'm looking at some Velvet Fabrics to line the box with different types of wood and I'm looking at Cedar right now. I like the fact that it has such a strong smell and that there's spiritual symbolism. They can represent eternal life and from a conservation standpoint it actually repels insects. I'm actually thinking about that a lot right now. I have a public project that's coming up that I'm not allowed to talk about but I'm excited about that. It's going to allow me to address landscape again. I'm excited about that. There's like so many different components that go into completing that I really love.
Sara: It's kind of crazy when you're in the audience just looking at something, you really don't think about how meticulously thought out something really is. I appreciate you telling me all those little details because when I see it, I'm going to be like, wow, she put this much work and effort into it. That is amazing.
Nekisha: A lot of the work that I do is kind of like that. Actually, the sick thing is I put so much time into these projects and they can be physically and emotionally painful and then someone just sees it and says, “Oh, that looks cool.” But, they have no idea what it took to make it. I mean, I actually feel like that means that I did what I wanted to do. I don’t really want people to think about how something was done. It is almost so clean that you don’t really think about the hand at all. You’re just thinking about all the hard work that was put into it.