Ashley Minner

Interview with Ashley Minner

By Keith Richardson

Keith: When you were growing up, when did you realize that you were a creative person and start to notice that you had a love for art?

Ashley: I think when I was born, I was certainly raised to be an artist and my family is full of artists so we always had supplies around and a lot of time to use my imagination. I would experiment with things and I was encouraged -- so right away. My Dad is also a musician and my Grandmother is a painter and I come from a family of great storytellers.

Keith: What type of art was your favorite when you were growing up? Were more of a painter or a drawer?

Ashley: I guess drawing since it was most accessible but I did have access to paint. I always had watercolors and then even like oil paint because of my Grandma. I liked to build a lot too, I played with little Legos, other blocks, sand and mud. I also liked to sew. But I guess drawing was the most regular thing -- but sculptures too.

Keith: You really got a chance to experiment with a bunch of different art forms and figure out what you really like the most and what you really want to be a master in right?

Ashley: I guess so, I don't think I ever thought of it as a vocation and I don't think I realized art was a thing you couldn't actually study until probably high school. I was just having fun, right?

Keith: What made you want to start taking art more seriously after high school and what made you want to pursue it professionally?

Ashley: When it was time to choose a high school everybody started talking about auditioning to go here or there so they didn't have to go to their zone school and I didn't know that was a thing. First of all, Patapsco High School & Center for the Arts, which was not my zone school, had a new art magnet program. I went in for instrumental music but then I quickly found out I didn't want to be in the marching band, which was a requirement. So I begged and pleaded to audition, I made a couple drawings to present to see if they would let me into the visual art magnet program. That was an important experience. It was like being immersed in art and my teachers were really great. I still think about them all the time and I'm still in touch with them. They are serious artists and they took their teaching very seriously and they gave a lot of themselves. You start to have other thoughts about what's possible. I suppose I always knew I was going to college and then I knew I didn't want to leave home so I ended up going to MICA . I had a free ride to Corcoran Museum School in DC but it was too far so I went to MICA instead.

Keith: Is that the attitude of a lot of people at MICA? Are most people trying to pursue teaching and also professional art ?

Ashley: MICA was very different when I went. So now I run professional development workshops sometimes and the student body is different. They have majors that didn't exist when I was there and students are interested in pursuing art forms and disciplines that were frowned upon when I went there. When I was there, MICA was very adamant that everybody needed a good foundation no matter what you wanted to do. Like if you wanted to be a photographer you still have to take two years of drawing at least. The first year they try to expose you to a lot of different things so then people would start declaring majors, and you know what you might want to do Ceramics or printmaking, some people actually majored in drawing or painting, that's pretty much what there was. So it wasn't like one thing. But I do feel like it it was still pretty cutthroat and competitive. You can get ripped up in a critique, and you expected to eventually.

Keith: You said there are some art forms that were frowned upon at the time but they aren't now. What type of forms?

Ashley: All these students I met recently are into a whole bunch of anime and stuff like that, game design, that wasn't really a thing when I was a student. In portfolio review some students were drawing ballpoint pen anime drawings.

Keith: A Lot of the art that you do focuses on activism and social justice, what made you want to take your art in that direction?

Ashley: When I was doing undergrad at MICA. I'm an enrolled member of the Lumbee tribe of North Carolina. My mom's Lumbee, my dad's white, I was raised going to Lumbee American Indian community events because we were inter-tribal in Baltimore. My Aunt directed me to the Indian education program in inner city schools and she always tried to involve me.

When I decided I was going to be a professional artist I wanted to bring the resources, and my talents back into the community. I took a course in undergrad and it was called visual journalism and in the course description it said spending a week in Patterson Park and all over the city to go draw. When I read that, I was like I can go see everyone, I can eat what I want, that's like a week off for me. But what I didn't realize was all the things I do in the community just as like a citizen of my community are also part of my greatest practice as an artist. I didn't realize community art was a thing.

The masters in community art program was founded at MICA and I was convinced to apply a year out of grad school. In the meantime I had graduated and I needed a job so that was an experience. I worked at the bank at the corner of Patterson Park Avenue and Eastern Avenue and I saw my community in a whole different light and angle. I could literally see their finances like what they were working with. The whole front side of the bank was a window so you could see everything going on. I lasted there a few months. Then my Aunt, the same one, called me and asked if I wanted to work with her in the Indian education program. I was working with Indian kids that were growing up similar to the way I did. I really felt art could make a difference for them, that was the beginning with just noticing that art can heal, the ability express yourself creatively or just play with materials makes a difference. And then also the fact that most of Baltimore doesn't even know our community exists and there's a lack of representation. So I started to make art to address that problem and that was just the beginning.

Keith: Between terms like Indian or Native American what is actually preferred ?

Ashley: The best thing you can do is call people by the name of their tribal Nation like Apache and you know. But if you don't know either, American Indian or Native American work, both are kind of misnomers in a way. Amongst ourselves we call each other Indians, the way I was raised we call each other Indians .

Keith: That was interesting what you said that how when you would work in that bank and also looking in your bio it says your work is focused on ordinary people and I thought that was interesting and I just like when you were working at the bank you could got a chance to do a lot of people watching. Is this what inspired your work to focus on these ordinary people ?

Ashley: I teach in American studies right now, that's my "job job," and yesterday I was teaching about the messages in an essay. It teaches we can really get at what is a society or what is a culture by studying everyday. I mean it's not like the elites of society are more interesting. I think everyday people are beautiful. The writing is called "demography of everyday life."

Keith: Who would you say your audience is that you're thinking of when you're making your art. Who are you thinking of seeing this work?

Ashley: Right now my heart has been more like research and writing , podcast and videos and stuff like that study. Like I said I haven't had a super-active visual art practice the last few years cuz I've been finishing up a PhD, that's work that I've been doing recently. The primary audience would be the Elders of my community because they're my collaborators, so whatever I come up with I really want to make them proud and I want them to be okay with it, and so far so good right. The secondary audience would be folks in Baltimore certainly to realize that we're here and we have a pretty long history.

And then beyond that, I like to look at the whole world, you know, I'd like our people to have recognition in a figurative sense, but also a very literal sense. Right now the Lumbee bill for full Federal recognition is before Congress and that would help us a lot, so it's kind of fortuitous that the Smithsonian just published a couple of articles about my work in my research while that's happening and that they caught on pretty well just in the last couple days and I think I have another article coming out today.

I'm here really at a tipping point on a lot of issues here. I'm sure you saw earlier this week Baltimore City Council finally voted to replace Columbus Day with Indigenous People's Day -- that's huge! I worked on that a couple years ago and it was not likely to happen. It didn't happen then, and it didn't seem like we even had a chance. Then also the council member who's now the presumed next mayor of Baltimore City Brandon Scott led that bill without involving the Native community , he just thought it was a good idea. But this time we were involved. We're just at a really godmoment to get things done and I think that's honestly thanks to the Movement for Black Lives. Now the world is my audience.

Keith: It's crazy how much things that should have been done a long time ago are really picking up traction and I know that feels amazing, that you know you were a part of that movement and you see some results. How does that feel?

Ashely: Well it's bittersweet right, because I think right now I'm much more unanimously enamored with the elder generation of my community. I just love them and I could spend all my time with them and I really enjoyed the work that I'm doing. The younger folks not so much. And I actually am not super active in what my home community organizations are doing right now because I disagree with the leadership and I feel like sometimes they get good work done but they're allowing for some things to happen that shouldn't happen and I just I can't be a part of it. So I feel like I did the good ground work and I'm still working in my lane at my best capacity I can but I can't take credit. I was part of it but I am not like super actively a part of what's unfolding now. Like I helped get it started but not right now.

Keith: You were talking about your doctoral research and one of the things was your doctoral research about the historical reservations in Baltimore Southeast. Can you talk a little bit about that, because I really hadn't really thought too much about it because you don't hear too much about it.

Ashley: That's been really fun, it's really really fun because I grew up in Dundalk and I still live in Dundalk and that makes perfect sense for the trajectory of our community here. But like most Lumbees in Baltimore I have throughout my life visited the old neighborhood which at one time was at one time so populous with with Indians it was referred to as the reservation, right? But I didn't know that. I just went to church and I went to the Indian Center and I thought that was it. Well, through this research I've learned that it was blocks and blocks, it was a thriving community, we had stores and restaurants in the community. It used to be really big and really dense compared to what it is today, so it's so much fun to uncover that and to visit all kinds of archives and find people included in collections and then the document those materials and bring it back and tell the elders what I found. I'll ask, you know who this person is, standing here? or what used to be in this building? And walk the neighborhood with them and you know that's the fun part. You think you know everything about a place and then you find out you didn't .

Keith: What made this thriving community go away?

Ashely: Well there's two main events in American history that I can point out. In 1968 of course there was the uprising following the assassination of Rev Dr Martin Luther King. After that many Indians moved out of the city just like white folks did so that was a catalyzing event. And then shortly after in 1970 Baltimore City began urban renewal where they actually started buying up properties in moving everybody out and raising properties. Turns out the area that I was raised in was the north side of the 100 block of East Baltimore Street which was the heart of the reservation, so all those people had to move somewhere and most of them couldn't move back. So you know, it's important to remember that Lumbee people don't think of themselves as victims, not even the folks who were moved out of that neighborhood then, don't think of themselves as victims. We do what we have to do and you know we would adapt and you just roll with the changes. A lot of people moved out of the city just because they were making more money and wanted a yard and you know they did better and they wanted more so those were the two main events that I can point to that explain where the community went.

Keith: I know that you said you're doing a lot more writing than visual art but how does this work relate to your visual art work and what's the difference between those?

Ashley: Well I think no matter what I'm doing I approach it as an artist, and I do my best to make it accessible, consistent across media like if it's writing or if it is images, all of my talks and presentation are very rich with images of our people of their sayings of where they live where they walked and where they continue to walk. Also, the elders are so stylish. Back in the day oh forget about it, they have their jewelry on, church used to look like a fashion show back in the day. So I've been thinking about plotting a series of portraits. I'm always thinking about something I want to do.

At the same time it can be detrimental because right now I was supposed to offer walking tour of the old neighborhood for the Oral History Association Annual Meeting. Because I can't do it in person, they want me offer it virtually and then they said they want me to do it as a pre-recorded video, and I was like, video! I have all these gorgeous images, I collaborate with the photographer quite often and all the buildings on a reservation and how they look now, but I need to make a video and because I'm a visual artist and perfectionist, I'm trying to make it into film of the writing. And I am not a video person so I'm making it more than what it has to be but yeah I like what you said -- right now I need images of these historic places and I don't think the images that the Library of Congress has online are good enough for me so now I'm going to the start archives with my own photographer. I'm a perfectionist and being an artist sometimes slows you way down. It can be punishing.

Keith: What does that really mean to you? Approaching everything as an artist you mean like seeing things as visuals, is that what you meant ?

Ashley: I guess it's just my worldview mostly. I'm always thinking about who's my audience, what's my purpose, how to honor my collaborators and find representation in the best and most honorable way possible. Sometimes love looks like paying really close attention and I always think about that.

Keith: You said love is paying attention ?

Ashley: Sometimes paying really close attention, active listening, just immersing yourself in the details, spending time is huge. The best thing we can do for each other is offering our full presence because we are socialized to be distracted. So I really try to be fully present with my elders and to check in with them a lot of times to make sure I'm representing them and us in the best way that I can.

Keith: Which projects are you most proud of and what was your favorite?

Ashley: Well we're talking at an interesting moment because I'm figuring out who I am again. I'm having a little bit of trouble differentiating between what is an art project and what isn't. It's like, I think my practice is just pretty extensive. So I would say i'm probably most proud of the Exquisite Lumbee book and the Lumbee Legend series of books. The Exquisite Lumbee portrait series ended up being what I'm most known for and it traveled the widest, people just can't seem to get enough of it, but I'm pretty tired of it so it was good, and I'm ready to do something else.

Keith: I know now writing is really huge for you. Was it always like that or has always been something that has gotten big now but has always been something that has really been close to you or has it been growing?

Ashley: I have always been comfortable with writing and enjoyed writing and used it to express myself. I wasn't writing as a scholar until pretty recently so it's another thing to figure out. What my voice is, how I use it, how it fits in with everything else I've done .. but yeah writing is pretty important to me and a good vehicle for what I try to do. I always agonize over my writing quite a bit, and I'm trying to stop that. Like one of my mentors in particular is coaching me through that a little bit. I would wake up in the middle of the night to see if i made a mistake. I have made mistakes, yes, so then I freaked out about that! What can you do after it's published in a book and it's the end of the world and oh my God I misrepresented people! but you just do the best you can as you go along and then you know, correct it later if you have opportunity. Like Maya Angelou said, “when you know better, you do better” and I always try to do the best I can. I can say that.

Keith: What role do you play in resisting things like colonialism and white supremacy, and I guess also with your community and oppression in general. What role do you feel art plays?

Ashley: Probably the most important thing my art does is remind people that we exist because in America we have settler colonialism, colonizing power replaces the Indigenous people and then they market themselves like the natural inhabitants of the land, that having been accomplished by killing or disappearing indigenous populations. So obviously really consistent and insidious ways of disappearing us all the time. People have a hard time believing that Indians even exist and nobody expects to run into an American Indian.They also don't know what we look like when they do see us.

Another way that we're effectively disappeared is through the Hollywood industry, like everybody thinks we look only one way. And that's just not the truth. So I think the best thing my art does is to just show us as we are, give us some representation in the context of what like we are like right here. We’re your neighbors, we’re your teachers, we are your students, your co-workers, and you know we belong here just as much as you do. Like most people, we moved to the city for a better quality of life. We have a lot in common, we have a lot that sets us apart, and I think that's pretty cool .

Keith: I wanted to do more research and see what it means. It's also people like you doing research and publishing things but people have to do their own research to look for it. You know, it's not mainstream.

Ashley: Yea in Maryland history many times begins with John Smith navigating the Chesapeake bay and Piscataway folks were here thousands of years before he showed up. The country is only a couple hundred years old -- I mean we don't even have a reference for 12,000 years. The presence of the United States of America has been very brief in the grand scheme of things.

Read and see more of Ashley’s Work:

ashleyminnerart.com

IG: @ashleyminnerart

Ashley Minner

ashleyminnerart.com

IG: @ashleyminnerart

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