11 - Paths into the archives

Listen to Episode 11: Paths into the archives

Release date: February 9, 2026. Length: 49:34 minutes.

There is no single path into archives. In this episode of Library Table Talk, guest hosts Michael Bean and Raegan Stearns share their personal journeys into archival work, reflecting on chance encounters, community influence, and the work of preserving memory. The conversation invites listeners to rethink what it means to become an archivist.

Listen to Episode 11 in the UMN Digital Conservancy.

Read the Episode 11 transcript.

Show Notes

Guest Host Bios

Transcript

Michael Bean

Hello and welcome to Library Table Talk. I'm Michael Bean, one of your guest hosts for this episode. 

Raegan Stearns

And I'm Reagan Stearns, your other guest host.

M. Bean

In Library Table Talk, we talk about what academic librarianship looks like in the day-to- day across different types of institutions and roles.  We invite other librarians for friendly and more informal conversations about the practicalities, responsibilities, challenges, joys,  and realities of academic librarianship as a job and as a career.

R. Stearns

Nothing is off the table and we're happy to have you here.

M. Bean

Thank you for joining us today. We wanted to have a conversation about the various ways people enter academic archives and librarianship.  Some people know early on this is where they want to be.  And some of us take a much longer, more winding path to the profession.  We thought sharing our two very different paths might help anyone who's considering a move into the field,  whether you're just starting or thinking about making a mid-career change.  

M. Bean

So I guess to start us off, I wanted to ask you when did you know you wanted to be an archivist? Was it something that you thought of as a child or was it something that happened in high school or during college or when did you know you wanted to pursue archives as a career? 

R. Stearns

I don't think I had a specific moment when I wanted to become an archivist. I don't really think I knew what the archives field was probably until I was in college as an undergrad. Looking back, I think the first time I actually visited an archives was the Amistad Research Center.

At Tulane in New Orleans, that's where I attended undergrad.  And if I recall, maybe there was  an English class that we had to go and meeting the people who worked there  and seeing kind of the artifacts that they pulled and the art. I really do think that was the first time I visited an archives  and I enjoyed my experience there. 

And then after that, visited on my own a couple of times,  but I still don't think I really  considered that as like, that's a, that's a career. You know, somebody works at an archives. I became an archivist and I hate to say good old-fashioned like American nepotism maybe.  My first job, my first, well okay my first job after graduating from  undergrad  was  in a call center and maybe I...typical of maybe a lot of young people graduating from undergrad, kind of having a lot of jobs, you just need a job.  And so I remember applying for a job with Southern University in my hometown of Shreveport, Louisiana. And um the nepotism came into play. I received a voicemail response to that application.  And it was somebody actually, I was still living at home with my mother. And so the person was calling my mother and kind of mistook her for me. The dean of that library knew my mother and thought my mother was the one applying for a job.  But, you it was me.  And she still, she interviewed me, and I was OK, you know. And so she hired me to work in the library. And a few years after that, and I'll call her name because I do consider her now a friend. at time, she was my supervisor and a mentor.  

But Dr. Orella Brazile was that dean. And after a few years, she was the one that was like, you really need to get a degree. You need to go back to graduate school,  get a library degree.  And we have this room that's chock full of black artifacts and things documenting  Northwest Louisiana's black history.  And get your degree, and then that could be you. That could be all you.  So I can't even say that I just had a moment where I was like, I want to be an archivist.  But someone took a chance on me and saw something in me and there was an opportunity, and 

I was encouraged and thankfully that kind of aligned with my interest in black history, history just in general.  So I'll to say no particular moment, but kind of my path was ordered by people in my life to expose me to it and give me a chance to become an archivist.

M. Bean

Well, I guess I probably also don't really have one single moment that kind of led me to archives. But I guess thinking back on it, um there are three things that kind of  make me think about, you know, my interest in the field.  And they kind of range from when I was a small child to  kind of a teenager, early college years um into, you know, my time in graduate school  for my first master's, my MFA. So When I was a kid, um going back to when I was maybe five or six years old,  I just kind of always remember my mom kind of insisting on us doing kind of cultural activities. 

So if there was ever any kind of a cultural festival in town um or just always going to museums,  things like that. So when we would go on vacation, my mom kind of would plan our vacations around  what museums were in the area, zoos, aquariums, things like that. You know, she kind of always wanted us to know  that the world was a bigger place  than just where we were from, but also kind of always keep in touch with,  you know, cultural heritage,  black history, you know, things like that. So, you know, like as a kid, I remember going to Chicago and visiting the Field Museum of Natural History, going to the DuSable Black History Museum,  but also the museums where we lived at. So the Montgomery Museum of Fine Arts.

 And I remember, you know, kind of vividly being a kid and going to the state archives downtown Montgomery, Alabama. And at the time, you know, I didn't understand what an archive was. So, you know, I'm asking my mom, you know, on the way to the museum, what is an archive and why are we going here? And, you know, she kind of told me that it was a place where people kept, you know, old things to kind of remember them. And so when we got there, they had an exhibit on the the Civil War.  And, I still remember this to this day, but you know, like they had like old uniforms from the Civil War, weapons from the Civil War, even down to the things that the soldiers would carry, like their  meal kits, like hardtack. I know, I remember seeing a hardtack from the Civil War at the archives.  

And so, you know, kind of from that day on, I understood that archives were places where people kept old things, that was my understanding as a five or six year old. And so I guess kind of going from there, my teenage years  and you know, my undergrad years,  I had a professor here at ASU and his name was Dr. Philip Terrell.  And you know, he introduced me to the Allen Lomax recordings.  And I guess kind of coming into undergrad, I was already working in audio already, I was recording,  you know, some of my friends,  you know, who wanted to rap. I was recording my friends, kind of producing for them in high school. 

But, you know, I guess he kind of put the idea of audio as a means of preserving history into a different perspective for me. And, you know, kind of told us about why he did that, you know, why he was recording a lot of the old music or a lot of the work songs from black people, kind of work songs from a lot of cultures. But, you know, he ended up recording Muddy Waters for the first time. But you know, like his work to record those cultures that may have just kind of gone unnoticed or unknown, you know, was really pivotal in exposing those cultures, those traditions, to a wider audience. And you know, I thought that was really cool. That was kind of the first time that I'd ever seen somebody use audio as a means of preserving history, you know, like not just as entertainment.  And the third thing, I guess, is my time as a grad student at Middle Tennessee State University in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. 

On campus, there is a place called the Center for Popular Music.  And what that was is a sheet music library, but also a library,  but also an archive. So there, you know, they would house obsolete formats like, I mean, vinyl,  obviously vinyl, but also wax cylinders, wire recordings, kind of every format you could think of, of obsolete recording. 

And you know, they digitized those, and every year, you know, they'd pick a few and play them um in the building. And so, you know, that was kind of my introduction to the concept of,  you know, digitizing obsolete formats to make them available for future generations. So, you know, kind of between all three of those um things as a kid, you know, that was kind of my introduction to the concept of archives and preserving history and why it's important.

M. Bean

So I know we talked about  when you knew you wanted to be an archivist, but can you remember um if there was anything in particular that kind of drew you into the field or was it kind of just something that you kind of just decided on? 

R. Stearns

Well, and I'll echo you in that my mother was an educator.  She was a classroom teacher, but then um early on she also was a school librarian.  And so I kind of grew up in libraries when I was in elementary school. I attended where she taught. And she was my school librarian. So I know I remember after school  having to entertain myself in her library while she was doing meetings and all that kind of stuff.  So just being in a library itself was very familiar to me. 

And then also, I'll say that uh, I guess my parents and uncles and aunts,  I guess they were maybe the children  of the civil rights movement. They were that generation of, you know going to school in the 70s and all that kind of stuff. And so it was always emphasized to me, like the importance of black history and knowing the contributions of African-Americans and knowing your family history and all that kind of stuff. Like that's what was emphasized to me. remember my uncle, he was big on like Kwanzaa. 

And I remember he had, me and my cousins, we had to know the seven principals. he was a musician, is a musician happy to know like um dressing up in African garb and we would like perform. And if you knew me, like I'm not a, like  it was funny, but  just having us, know, ensconced in black history was a big thing for us growing up. And so I guess archives kind of got me  after,  know, becoming the archivist for Southern University in Shreveport  and seeing  where,  that Shreveport is also my hometown where I grew up.

So seeing the material that Dr. Brazile and her coworker, Camille Redden, founded that archives in, I believe, 1992. And so they did the hard work of going out into the community and amassing all this information, papers and pictures and all that kind of stuff. But I don't think they ever had an archivist. 

And so seeing their work, seeing how it kind of complemented the emphasis that I grew up in. Seeing how their work also, if I'm searching for my family history, which I was at the time doing genealogy and things like that, and wanting to know about the black high school in Shreveport. And it wasn't in any of the other libraries, but it was where I worked. 

So to learn more about myself, I had to go through the boxes and kind of do the organization and the work of an archivist to learn more about myself and my family and seeing that opportunity for me to kind of contribute to my community of Northwest Louisiana,  I think is where kind of it clicked for me that this isn't just my first job out of college, but this is an important service or contribution that I can make to the community where I come from. So I think that's where it kind of really kind of got its hooks in me, of just loving the profession of being an archivist. 

M. Bean

And you know, I think the thing that really made me want to dive into the field was something that once again, that my professor told me, Dr. Terrell told me. And when we were recording, and this had to have been my first recording class with him, he told us that every time you push record, you're creating a document or you're creating a record of events, people, places, things, ideas you're creating, you're capturing this little small snapshot of that culture.  

And even though, you know, I didn't act on it immediately after undergrad or really even after my first master's degree, that thought kind of stuck with me the entire time. The fact that  whenever you push record on a console or in Pro Tools or whatever you're recording in, that you are creating  a historical document.  And,  you know, like that always stuck with me because when I  decided to actually go back to grad school to pursue a degree in archival studies, that's kind of what drove me to do that because  I was kind of hesitant to apply because  I was thinking that everybody else that was in school was gonna have been already working in archives, knew exactly what they wanted to do,  they already have a background in this, but then I considered what he said.

And I considered that even though  I hadn't been working in archives,  I was still contributing to the historical record of our society. I was still contributing to memories.  I was still contributing to having something be preserved for future generations to hear and understand how we lived. Because to me, that's what music is. I think music is kind of a milestone or a cornerstone of a culture. When I think about culture, I think about what great works of art did you all produce?  What minds did you produce? What philosophies did you produce? What ideas did your society hold as a collective? And how did those ideas and works of art and all of that stuff, how did that shape what you all created and what you all lived like every day?  

So just to think of  me creating anything like that, and contributing that to the historical record,  I guess kind of gave me permission in myself to pursue a degree in archives and to pursue a career in archives because,  you know, after I thought about it like that, you know, it made more sense to me that I could do that,  that people before me had already done that.  And so I guess that was like, yeah, like I said, like that was my permission to pursue the degree in archives, the career in archives. 

M. Bean

You know, I guess I've kind of always considered that with decisions like this, you know, about your career, about the job you're gonna have for an extended period of time, you know, sometimes you end up second guessing. Do you think you've second guessed your decision to be in archives or to stay in archives or have you been kind of steadfast in that decision?

R. Stearns

 I think I've been steadfast, especially early on, especially since, as I kind of described to you, I fell into it anyway. So once it kind of clicked for me, it clicked and I enjoyed  the profession. I enjoyed building upon, um especially when I was at Southern in Shreveport, what my predecessors had done. It became sometimes a um challenge in a good way to see what was missing from the archives  because people would reach out to me and it was a small archive. I was, I guess what they call a lone ranger. was alone in there.  And so people would reach out and warn images or information about certain things and it wasn't there,  it wasn't with us.  

And so  I embraced that challenge of being able to go out in the community um and try to locate material. That was, think, one of the most enjoyable things for me um and being able to make connections in that way. Sometimes having to convince people that, okay, my pictures from the  20s is  valuable. And  people want that information. And so um I didn't second guess. I really enjoyed it. There did come a time, though, when I, I don't know, needed a change.  I'll say there was a point where when I stopped working at Southern University in Shreveport,  and there were a few years when I um was like a consultant. So wanting to be able to still enjoying, I guess, the mission of being an archivist, but wanting to do things at maybe my own pace or wanting to be able to kind of delve into projects that are especially interesting to me um and  kind of chart my own path for a little bit. So I did do that.

I wouldn't say that I second guessed the feel as a whole, but wanted to kind of explore what does it mean maybe to not be an archivist um at a university.  What was it mean to be an independent archivist? Is that such a thing?  And so  I did that for a few  years before  coming here to Alabama State University  as first the associate archivist and now as the university archivist.  So I probably, um since I mentioned kind of falling into the career and I didn't have that difficult a time of becoming a librarian and finding an archives to work  at.  And kind of just as I look back and kind of reading um and seeing how I know that that was very privileged. 

I can see that now that maybe people coming out of library school now that it's not that easy a path  often.  know, sometimes it's  people can take  months or years after graduating to find a position in the field. oh I probably spend more time now, now that I'm considering maybe mid-career, thinking about like what advancement from this point or what the future professional looks like from this point than I did, you when I was first starting as an archivist. 

M. Bean

And you know, I think I probably, well, first off, I'm still really new to the field of archives. So I don't think I've had uh time enough now or time enough yet to second guess this decision in 15 years, we'll answer this question again. But for right now, I think I really second guessed my earlier decisions more than I have this one. After I kind of realized what archivists do, you know, I think I kind of realized that that's really along the lines of what I've really always wanted to do.  From the conversations that I described earlier with Dr. Terrell, you know, I was kind of always attracted to it. I just never really saw a place for me to be into it.

 But um after kind of understanding  what archives, especially, audio visual media archivists do,  I've really always been attracted to it. And so I think more of my second-guessing kind of happened along the lines of what I did before. So like I said earlier,  you know, I really worked in  audio  and video for close to 20 years. you know,  having  and really considering that before I taught, I taught for 10 years here at ASU.  But so the first 10 years of audio was really mostly um in the field of practical applications. So I lived in Nashville for a couple of years. And when I was there, I engineered full time um alongside go to grad school. And so, you know, having to work that much in something that I love to do.  You know, really made me question, can I do this forever? You know, can I sustain the level of work that I'm doing for so long, like long enough to actually call it a career, I guess.  So can I record full time? Can I stay up at these sessions until three and four in the morning all the time? Can I come do sessions every day for a month for 20 years? Can I do this for that long?  

I second-guessed that more than, you know, my move to archives. But also, you know, like am I gonna be able to do everything else that I wanna do? You know,  I knew that I wanted to have a family when I was younger,  but I didn't know how that would fit into working in audio full-time. So yeah, you know, I second-guess that more than I think I  have so far about my move to archives, because even when I knew I wasn't qualified to be an archivist, And this, you know, I think it’s a funny story. But even before I knew I was qualified to be an archivist, even before I had the degree in archival studies, I only had the one masters, the MFA in audio and video recording. I applied for a job in archives, you know, thinking that, well, if they have media, maybe I can do that for them. You know, I'm an expert at media, as I said, the Center for Popular Music before. I've digitized audio at this point, so I know I can do that at least. 

So  I applied for a job long before I had a degree in archives. So, you know, I think I've always been, well, not always, but after I realized what the job was, I was pretty clear that I was interested in being in archives, because I applied for a job, like I said, like long before. I was ever qualified to do it. So I think more of my second-guessing kind of came in what I was doing before. You know, thinking about could I sustain that level of work for years to call it a career. So yeah, I think that's where my second-guessing came in at. 

M. Bean

I guess with the decision to go to archives, was there like kind of a moment of clarity where you decided that you knew you could do this or was it just kind of something that kind of came at you and you had to adapt? um How did that go for you? 

R. Stearns

Well, and I guess like I mentioned before, I didn't have, I guess,  a lot of the conflict or challenges that other people may have had in kind of pursuing archives slash librarianship as a career. uh I was fortunate that I already worked a library  and somebody said, you know, I think you could do well if you went back and got a degree um and then there's a position for you. You know, there was a position for advancement. So I was fortunate in that there was  a library program in my state. I went to LSU. um I was fortunate that when I did it, I guess mid 2000s, um there were still, you know, student loans and debts and all that kind of stuff, but I was able to work full time, and my job accommodated me. 

So I was able to just kind of pay for most of it. So I didn't graduate  with the debt that many people do now. um And so I didn't have a lot of, I guess, complications  when it came.  And also,  the way you were talking about your family and your kids, I wasn't supporting anybody. So I had the flexibility of like, OK, I'll go to grad school.  It wasn't hard decisions in that way. Being able to have that clarity and not have a lot of obstacles uh in terms of jobs. I  worked, and I had a job. It was given to me.  But also um even coming here,  working at Southern University in Shreveport, which is an HBCU, and then having the opportunity to come to Alabama State University, which is an HBCU.  I didn't attend an HBCU.  

So I consider these two positions as my HBCU experience. So I enjoy kind of um the learning about the legacies and the traditions and all that kind of stuff um from working here. So I think maybe unconsciously, or maybe conscious, I don't know,  but being able to kind of enjoy this environment that might've been shaped by kind of um something I didn't experience as a student. So now being privileged to experience it working here, being on the campus. 

M. Bean

I feel like if I had to point to any time period that would, you know, would kind of be, I guess, a moment of clarity or just like kind of a time period where things just kind of lined up and it was,  you know, if I don't do it now that I'm not going to do it. um It was actually during COVID, um you know, like when COVID happened,  everything just kind of shut down. uh You know, I was teaching at the time and I was teaching online then.  So, you know I think I had more time to kind of just sit with myself and think about, um you know, like what I really wanted to do. had to be at this point, I been teaching for about nine and a half years when COVID hit.  

So, you know, I had time to just kind of think about if that's what I wanted to do for the next 15, 20 years, or, you know, if there was some time for me to maybe make a change.  And when COVID first happened, it was 2019, I um started thinking like that and I...I just kind of figured that right then wasn't really the best time. um You know, at the time  I had a child,  my youngest daughter, she's six now, but at the time she was one. So, you know, at the time it wasn't really a great time for me to be in school because you know, got to consider,  you know, I guess I'm like really a hands-on dad. So, you know, I don't really want to have to, you know, like not help with the baby at home because I'm writing the paper or because I'm in school, whatever the case may be. So, you know, I didn't really consider going back at that time. 

But I guess a couple of years later, in 2022, or 2021, is when I started coming over to the library and talking to Dr. Robinson. Because at the time, I was just considering research projects that I could work on as a faculty member.  And one of the ones, one of the things that I considered was an oral history project. So I came to talk to Dr. Robinson about, you know, kind of how to conduct anything like that.  And,  you know, I mentioned to him that I was considering doing a certificate program in public history or in archival studies. And, you know, he kind of encouraged me to not just stop at the certificate program to go ahead and get a degree. 

So that was 2021. You know, I still didn't go yet, but, you know, that kind of planted the seeds of,  you know, just applying and even considering really going back to school. So,  you know, like the next year is when I really made the decision to kind of go back to school, 2022.  So in 2022, she was three. So, you know, still a small kid, but you know, like by three years old, they're kind of into a routine, you know, it's kind of running a little bit more smoothly than it was when she was one. So,  you know, I'm kind of thinking, okay, if I'm gonna do it, now's the time, you know, I was 37 or 38 at the time. So, you know, I kind of was just considering,  am I gonna wanna go back to school after I turn 40? You know, if I put it off longer than that, like, am I gonna be 50 years old in school? And, you know, I couldn't really see myself being 50 and 60 trying to go back to school.  

You know, my thought process was, if I'm gonna do it, then, you know, time is right now. And so when I started looking,  you know, I was looking at different programs. And there was one in the state with me in Alabama at the University of Alabama, which is where I ended up going. But the thing,  I guess the moment of clarity that I had about applying was that they had a scholarship program that I really wasn't expecting to see  in a program like that. And it was actually the EBSCO scholarship for uh audio visual preservation and archiving. And so in that program,  we ended up digitizing obsolete format. um I worked on a lot of  HD cam and UMATIC  videotapes with APT,  the PBS affiliate here in Alabama, to digitize several documentaries, like the raw footage from documentaries that they had shot. 

And so, you know, just being able to use some of the skills that I already had as part of this new program,  you know, was really helpful. And, you know, like seeing the program, well,  seeing that scholarship program was the thing that really made me go ahead and apply, you know. I was kind of weird feeling at first about it because I thought that I was going to apply  and everybody else in the program is going to know exactly what they want to do, you know, kind of already be working towards that or have already been working towards that and I really haven't been or not in any way  that I considered,  you know, that I've been working towards that.  

So to see a program or a scholarship program that would fund some of my tuition to go to school was really kind of encouraging and really made me just kind of go ahead and apply. At that point, I didn't really feel that my background would hold me back. So I just went ahead and applied at that point. I ended up getting in and finished the program. And that's kind of where I ended up in 2024. I graduated from the University of Alabama with a master's in archival studies. So yeah, you know, that was kind of how um that, you know, that one moment of seeing that scholarship led to, you know, the path that I'm on now, I guess. 

R. Stearns

You mentioned the pandemic,  just, I guess,  that there was a timeframe that these thoughts were going through your head.  But did the actual, I guess, pandemic itself, did that have any,  either conscious or unconscious, like  maybe  the period where the world kind of slowed down-ish a little bit?

M. Bean

The things that I wasn't really prepared for was when everything went online. um That's kind of really what made me consider the idea of not teaching anymore, everything being online. Because, you know, what I taught is audio engineering,  some TV production classes  sometimes,  and those things are very much hands-on. So having to teach online made me feel like I wasn't teaching anymore. And you know, like dealing with that,  the idea that I don't teach anymore, like not in any real sense, I guess. Like that's how I felt then, that I wasn't teaching anymore.  So  confronting,  you know, that, like dealing with, you know, issues of identity,  you know, like teaching has been a big part of my life at this point for about 10 years almost.  So like just teaching was a big part of my identity.  

And you know, like considering, am I gonna be okay with letting that go or do I want to let that go? What else do I want to do?  And like I said, that's kind of around the time when I started bothering Dr. Robinson, oh just kind of considering that  I wanna do these other things  and talking to him, talking about  a graduate degree program in archives was kind of the thing that was kind of wrapping around in my head the whole time  during COVID because you know, when COVID hit at first, I was doing my  online classes at home  and that started messing with me because, you know, like I've kind of always been the person that feels like when you're at home, you should be in your sanctuary. 

Like that should be your escape from the rest of the world almost. So when I had to have people, students, um you know, like from work at my house, like that was uh kind of a jarring experience for me and I  couldn't stand it. So what I would do was go on campus and do my classes, uh in my classroom, by myself,  in the building by myself a lot of times.  I would do my classes in that same classroom because I felt like I was teaching still teaching. Feeling like I wasn't teaching anymore did mess with me.  So yeah, know, just thinking, just having like that much quiet time in the building by myself to think about what do I want to do, you know, kind of, I guess, you I kind of  gave myself permission during that time to explore other things. um Because, know, when I was teaching, I never really stopped for long enough to consider what do I want to do. 

But, you know, when everything slowed down, I had, you know, so much time for introspection,  especially, you know, in that building by myself teaching my online classes, you know, I had so much time to think about, is this what I really want to do for the next 15, 20 years? And, you know, it just turned out that it wouldn't. So, you know, just made the decision at that time to, yeah, you know, like stop teaching and go back to school and try to do something else after, you know, after whenever things got back to normal, I guess, you know, that was kind of my plan. 

R. Stearns

How do you feel that your teaching background is showing up now in your archival work?  And I don't think we've mentioned your official title is collections archivist. And so you're responsible here for helping to clear the backlog  and you've contributed to all aspects of the archives here. But so how do you feel like just your teaching is showing up in that? 

M. Bean

I think it shows up the most when  I consider how I want to arrange or describe a collection and I say that because when I was teaching, I would use archival material um in my curriculum or I would use archival material in student projects and things like that.  And one of the things that would bug me the most is when I would see a finding aid or when I would, you know, get an archival box and I could tell that they made decisions based on time. You know, I could tell that they made decisions to speed up the cut corners, um you know, in a way that kind of follows certain archival concepts, especially like more product, process. 

You can tell that they did things because they needed to get the materials out of the backlog and made available for researchers.  But sometimes when that happens, you don't include enough material, you don't include enough detail in your description  or other things like  when you're trying to follow original order. And sometimes I think that that's not necessarily the best thing to do. Sometimes you just get stuff in a box  and  it's up to the archivist to kind of impose order on what is in, you know, what ends up being uh in the final series or in the final box.  And in those instances, when it's just stuff in a box and you're having to impose order,  I always choose to impose order in a way that it makes sense to researchers. I always choose to arrange materials in a way that if somebody was coming looking for this one thing, they'll also find other materials that are related to  what's in this box, what's in this folder. 

Original order might say that I include whatever is in this box  and that's the way that it has to stay. And then I have materials in some other box that are related to these materials, but I'm not gonna put them together because original order says don't put them together.  And  I, you know, find myself not following that rule quite a bit. So I think that's where my teaching background kind of comes up.

because my goal is to make the archives as easy and as accessible  to people that use them, not necessarily other archivists, because that's usually not who uses our collections. It's researchers, students, faculty members, community members. So I think my teaching background kind of makes me consider them the most. 

R. Stearns

And we've mentioned some names, but I do want to ask you, like you mentioned Dr. Howard Robinson,  who was the former university archivist now is the university historian, but also an Alabama State University alum,  yourself as collections archivist, but we also work with Kashonda Murphy, who is  our historical archivist and an ASU alum. And we work with Joseph Kaver, who is very renowned as an archivist and also an ASU alum.  So can you talk a little bit about, I guess, just your experience of being an archivist at your actual alma mater? Like how's it special or what do you think about that? 

M. Bean

I guess I think it's special to me, particularly, you know, like I'm a third-generation graduate of ASU. So my grandmother went here in the 40s and 50s. My mom went here in the 70s and a bunch of my uncles went here in the 70s and 80s. And me and my sister, you know, were here in the early 2000s. I came out in 2008. She came out in 2006. So You know, like I've been around ASU most of my life.  And you know, like even beyond that,  like ASU has always held a really special place for me like just as a person, because you know, like so much of my family history kind of comes back to ASU.  

So my great-grandfather and my great-grandmother on my mom's side,  Papa Eddie and Mama Sally were my great-grandparents.  And you know, They were the children of enslaved people. So,  you know,  when they were kind of, you know, planning their family, you know, raising their kids, they decided that they were going to send their two youngest kids to college. And the two youngest kids ended up being my Uncle Philip and my grandma. So, you know, like, and the school that they chose to send their kids to was ASU. Well, at the time it was called something else, but you know, it's ASU.  So ASU has been a part of my family for generations now.  

So I guess to be on campus, um you know, like in this aspect and telling the story of ASU  has been very impactful for me because,  you know, I grew up hearing these stories about some of the people,  some of the events that happened on campus,  and, you know, to be able to kind of do my part in telling that story. And being a part of the story myself,  you know, has been very impactful to me because, you know, the school has always meant so much to me. And, you know, like even, you know, like growing up with my grandma, you know, like she was like a really big ASU fan. So, you know, she always had ASU hats, ASU jackets, ASU socks, ASU everything. So, you know,  like, you know, here in Alabama, the big thing is always  Alabama versus Auburn. 

But As a kid, you know, I always was thinking about Alabama State versus Tuskegee or Alabama State versus Alabama A &M. You know, like those were the really big  things to me as a kid. So just kind of always being immersed  in the history and the lore of ASU,  you know, was always a big thing for me as a kid. But now to be able to directly interact with some of the materials to be able to see some of the founding documents, some of the founding legislation that made ASU a state school, being able to actually see that and know that I'm responsible for caretaking of those materials is very  profound for me and just something I'm really happy about. 

R. Stearns

And so I know we're talking specifically about your experience coming into the library slash archives profession as a second uh career. But do you have any, guess for people who might be considering that, I guess, do you, A, do you recommend it? Or are there, like, what should they be considering as they make their decisions about it?

M. Bean

 And, you know, I think that's kind of why I even applied to do this podcast. You know, when I saw the topic go up, you know, I immediately thought of, you know, some posts that I've seen on Archivist Think Takeover on Facebook or either  on Reddit, the archivist  sub-Reddit.  And you you'll always see ones that say, oh, well I'm 38  and I've always wanted to be an archivist,  but I've been doing this for the past 15 years. Does it make sense for me to go back to school?  Are there any jobs?  You know, like just all these kinds of doubts.  

And it kind of seems like somebody has been really thinking about, you know, moving in archives but they've kind of thought of every reason why they shouldn't go. I guess, you know, like whenever I see those, I always respond. You know, I always respond and say, well, this is what I did. You know, I did move jobs or I did go back to school when I was 37. I did end up changing jobs when I was 39, almost 40. Like I did go through the whole process of going back to school with a family  and my background wasn't something that I didn't really consider archival  and I still made it work.  And you know, like that's not to say that that'll be everybody's  situation, but it could be, you know? So whenever I see somebody questioning, you know, if they should do it, I just kind of offer my own story to kind of tell them that if you want to make it work, then maybe you can. You know, like there's archives for almost everything, so your background doesn't matter a whole lot. 

Because if there's something that you're passionate about, there's probably somebody that collects it or documents whatever the case may be. So, you know, like there's a lot of opportunities and archives for a wide range of backgrounds. So if you think your background's gonna keep you out, don't let that stop you. If you think your age is gonna stop you, don't let that stop you. You know, whatever is feasible for you to make happen then I think you should least try it because I've just always been a person that feels like, um I guess I just always been a person that feels like you miss all the shots you don't take. If you don't even try, then you know, like you'll never know what you could have done.  

You know, I'd rather try and fail than not try at all. And that's kind of how I approach most things.  You know, like I'm okay with not being the best at some things. I'm okay with admitting when I failed, but if you don't even try,  then like that bothers me a lot more, you know, and like wondering what could have been than you know, like knowing that I tried something that didn't work out. So,  you know, I encourage everybody, you know, who wants to kind of consider the field of archives, you know, like just consider it, you know, like even if that means  going to volunteering somewhere or, you know, like seeing if it's actually what you want to do,  you know, like just like whatever opportunities you can find,  you know. 

Give them a try. Research. See what's available in your state, in your city, or whatever the case may be. Just try them out and see if you actually feel the same way about it. And if you do, then take whatever steps are feasible for you to accomplish that. 

R. Stearns

Well, can I ask you a question? Because of what you were saying before, like when you were out establishing the boundaries of your  personal, professional,  while you were still in audio production and stuff.  But  I'm interested to know if you, so this isn't me officially asking, but if you kept that boundary now that you're in the library.  

M. Bean

Yeah, mean, I think that boundary is something that I kind of had to learn. You know, from the time when I was 16 or 17, I guess I've kind of always considered myself to be overemployed because I've always done so much. You know, I've always done audio, I've always done video projects, always done these music sessions, audio just in various aspects. But then I started teaching, I was in grad school, you know, so I've always done like so much and I've always done so much in a way that when I'm home, I still wasn't off. So, you know, I had to kind of learn to, you know, like prioritize when I'm off, I'm off. 

And you know, like when I was teaching, that came in the form of saying, okay, when I get home, I'm done doing whatever it is after this time. But, you know, at some point, that became not enough. Like I wanted to be off when I was off. When I, you know, didn't have, when I was at home, I wanted to be off. I wanted to kind of separate my work day from my, you know, my time at home.  So, You know, even when I came here, I remember my first day you had to call me and ask me, well, Mr. Bean, are you going to go home at five o'clock? 

And I was like, you know, is it okay for me to go home? Like I had to kind of understand that this was a different scenario than, you know, what I was used to. So, you know, I've always had those boundaries, but now, you know, being able to just go home when it's time to go home and like not take work home with me.  And I appreciate it, you know, like when  in the past I wasn't really able to do that. So the boundaries are, you know, like have been there for a while, but being able to actually respect those boundaries myself  has been great. 

R. Stearns

And that's like when you were talking earlier, that struck me with you saying that because  a lot of the times, and I don't know if you've read and forgive me if I'm mispronouncing the author's name, but um Fobazi Ettarh.  And she wrote an article a few years ago called Vocational Awe and  Librarianship: The Lies We Tell Ourselves. And so, a lot of that article is about, especially withthe field of libraries being so service-oriented.  And we talk about it in terms like we had this noble cause and this mission and all that kind of stuff.  And so that's the vocational art. Like we're so in awe of this service field  that a lot of the times librarians don't have that boundary.

um If I don't do this, then democracy will fall. This book is not,  all that kind of stuff. So it's interesting when you were talking before about you have already established that.  

M.Bean

And that brings us to a close here, folks. Thank you for listening. We hope you'll consider subscribing.  You can also find us  on the Library Table Talk website at z.umn.edu  slash library table talk.

Hannah Cabullo, Stephanie Sparrow, and Raegan Stearns

This episode was developed, recorded, and edited by Michael Bean and Reagan Stearns.  Library Table Talk is produced by me, Hannah Cabullo.  And me, Stephanie Sparrow.  Thanks to our employer, the University of Minnesota Twin Cities and University Libraries for making this work possible.  And by Alabama State University and the Levi Watkins Learning Center.  Music is by Blue Dot Sessions,  Town Market and Dirt Bike Lovers.