04: Conference Season's greetings

Listen to Episode 04: Conference Season's greetings

Release date: March 24, 2025. Length: 46:45 minutes.

In which we talk with Mallary Rawls, Xochitl Quiroz, and Lacie McMillin, in our first-ever panel-format conversation, about the joys and difficulties of conferences. They offer reassuring advice on everything from how to strike up a conversation with a stranger, to how to dress and what to bring, to how to take care of yourself in the overwhelmingness that is a conference. And THANK YOU to the folks who submitted questions for our panel!

Listen to Episode 04 in the UMN Digital Conservancy.

Read the Episode 04 transcript.

Show Notes

Guest Bios

Additional Conference Tips

We asked on a couple listservs/forums for questions for this episode, and also received tips and advice that we wanted to share here.

• If you go to a session and it's not what you thought, it's okay to leave early.

• Volunteering can be a good way to start getting involved in conferences beyond simple attendance.

Our Current Awareness Highlights

We didn't talk about any other publications in this episode, but here are a couple pieces if you'd like to dig deeper into conference attendance:

DeNotto, M. (2019, August 27). Why you should consider going to non-library conferences. The Librarian Parlor. https://libparlor.com/2019/08/27/why-you-should-consider-going-to-non-library-conferences/

Ellis, A. (2025). Alone, but not lonely: Attending an academic conference solo. College & Research Libraries News, 86(2), Article 2. https://doi.org/10.5860/crln.86.2.74

And some other things we've enjoyed recently:

Nogueira, L. A. (2025). Chatbots and scholarly databases: Impressions from trying out Scopus AI. Information Technology and Libraries, 44(1), Article 1. https://doi.org/10.5860/ital.v44i1.17116

Transcript

STEPHANIE SPARROW: Hello, and welcome to library table talk. I'm Stephanie Sparrow, one of your hosts.

HANNAH CABULLO: and I'm Hanna Cabullo, your other host

STEPHANIE: in library table talk, we're 2 librarians exploring what academic librarianship looks like in the day-to-day, across different

types of institutions and roles.

HANNAH: Nothing is off the table.

STEPHANIE: We're happy to have you here.

STEPHANIE: Today's episode is about conferences. Maybe you're new to the profession and haven't been to a conference before, or you're

preparing to present at a conference for the 1st time, or interested in, maybe even intimidated by, submitting a proposal to present,

conference season, brings up a lot of questions, and it is upon us! We asked early career librarians to submit questions they wanted

answered about conferences, and then ask those to a panel of 3 academic library workers. Our lovely panel, shared their experiences

and advice around conferences, and made Hannah and I both feel more relaxed about ACRL coming up in just a week or so

HANNAH: To kick us off. Could you each please introduce yourself, however you want to, and share a little bit about your experience with

attending conferences, academic conferences, professional conferences, whether as attendees or presenters?

MALLARY RAWLS: So Hello! My name is Mallary Rawls. I'm a humanities librarian at Florida State University. I use she/her pronouns.  Before

being a humanities librarian. I was a diversity resident librarian at Florida State University, and then before that, I was a children's

librarian at a public library in Tallahassee, Florida, which is currently where I live. My experiences with conferences have been

pretty great. When I was a newer librarian I found conferences to be kind of overwhelming. You know, it's just like a lot of information

and itinerary. And I have ADHD. So it's all like, Oh, my gosh! Like this is a lot. The 1st conference I ever went to was a Society of American Archivist (SAA) Conference, which was in Cleveland, Ohio, and this was when I started out in libraries, not still in library school, and it was...It was also a good experience, but I didn't really know what I was doing. So I say, as time has gone by, I've learned to kind of get what I want to get out of conferences. Try to pre-plan a little bit more, which helps me and my ADHD brain.

Presenting at conferences has been a newer experience for me. I presented conference proposal for the CLAPS which is a conference on library pedagogy [note: Critical Librarianship & Pedagogy Symposium], and it was accepted in, and the conference was supposed to be in March 2020. So that's when everything shut down because of Covid, and we ended up doing the conference. It was, it turned into just being a completely virtual conference. But that was one I was really excited about, because it was in Arizona, and I've never been to Arizona. So Ididn't get the chance to go because it turned into a virtual event. But I'm presenting at  ACRL this year with a colleague and friend of mine, and I'm pretty excited about it! We got a round table. I've presented proposals to  ACRL, and they've never been accepted. So this is the 1st year this has been accepted. So I'm also excited about that. So that's kind of my like entry to conferences.

XOCHITL QUIROZ: My name is Xochitl Quiroz. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm currently--I have a very long title--I'm the 1st year's engagement and humanities Librarian at Smith College, which is a small Liberal Arts Women's College, in Massachusetts. This is my 1st job out of grad school. I've been here like a little over a year and a half, so I definitely still feel like a baby librarian in some ways, but I also feel like I gained 10 years in my 1st year, working here especially because my job is kind of covers 2 different things. Part of it's working with new students, 1st years. I started in July, and orientation was at the beginning of September, and, like my 1st thing I did was talk in front of like 700 1st years. So immediately I was like, "this is what being a librarian is." I'm super excited. So like I feel like I had the worst initiation. So I do that type of stuff, a lot of outreach. I'm also the humanities librarian as well. So I'm working with, like English American studies, Latin American studies, all that entails of being a subject librarian. 

In terms of conferences. I also, I feel like my 1st conference experience was the like month before, when I graduated from grad school and started my job. It was ALA in Chicago which I feel like is such an intense introduction to conferences. It was just because I have lived in Illinois. So I was like, Oh, I could just stay with my mom and go and that I feel like was a and I was just really there to take it in and like I was like, Oh, Rick Riordan is going to be here like Judy Bloom's here. So like, wow! Conferences are amazing. They always have celebrities here. But that one was definitely I was just there as an attendee. I feel like I still feel like I get that like giddiness like, Oh, my God! I'm an adult that gets to go to conferences. This is excited. So that was my 1st experience. I went to ALA in San Diego last time as well. And that one I was definitely much more focused on like, okay, I need to do things related to my job. And then last year, I believe for the last year and a half, I've done like 2 virtual conferences as an attendee. I think one was LOEX, and one was. It was the Oklahoma chapter of  ACRL, because I also used to live in Oklahoma. So I was just interested in that way. I actually learned a lot there, I know, like Oklahoma State does some really awesome stuff. So yeah, my conference experience is very much just been as an attendee. 

But this year for  ACRL a friend and I are doing a  community chat, which is like the 1st time I'll do anything that's not just attending. And we're like, this is a nice way to sort of ease our way into doing actual things at a conference. And we kind of because it's community chat where this will be a way for us to also connect with people. Our topic is related to like being an early career Latine librarian. So it's very much like, we're also like, we just want to meet other people who experience the same thing. So I'm really excited for this upcoming conference. It'll be a very different experience for me. It's also my 1st  ACRL.

LACIE: Hello! My name is Lacie Mcmillan. I use she/her pronouns, and I am the undergraduate services specialist at the University of Minnesota libraries. So I'm not actually a full fledged librarian. I'm a library assistant. So my job entails like some frontline work aspects like I work at the desk in Wilson Library. But a lot of my work has to do with just kind of introducing students to the libraries and guiding them through their 1st experiences with academic research through supporting orientation, Welcome Week doing various outreach kinds of events. And I also do a lot of instruction--coordinating our partnership with the 1st year writing program. So it's kind of like the the only class on campus that, like all 1st years, have to take. So it's it's huge. It's kind of a big beast, but it's a really great opportunity to, you know, show students what the libraries are all about, and how we can support them all throughout their college career.

And my experiences with conferences. I feel like I've really grown in how I approach conferences, because, as like a library assistant, I had like just super kind of imposter syndrome at first, st but you know I've been with the libraries for almost 8 years now, so I feel like I've really grown in. In my confidence. I work with a lot of really great mentors who have been librarians for a while now. So I think that's been really helpful. But I've just kind of like thrown myself into to everything I've you know, been to big conferences like ACRL. I've been to smaller ones like more regional thematic ones like the Lib Tech conference, you know, that's very regional and doesn't actually exist anymore. Or one thing that I thought was really cool was going to kind of like a non Libraries Conference, too. So I last year I went to the Conference on the 1st year experience. So that was a really great kind of exposure to seeing my work and kind of like the greater context of higher education, and and talk to people who have much different roles than me, but just still supporting the same population.

And it's also fun to just try different modalities like y'all mentioned. You know how the pandemic kind of impacted, how we communicate with each other like in these conferences and stuff, too. So it's been kind of a crazy ride, flipping back and forth between in person, traveling for conferences, but also experiencing the virtual side of things, and you know it's still possible to connect with people and and learn in in that sort of virtual environment. 

STEPHANIE: There are so many different kinds of conferences. Even already you have all alluded to multiple modalities of conferences, focuses. And there's also time that are like, you know, super broad librarianship, or even Lacey you were talking about outside of librarianship. And so how do you personally decide what kind of conference to attend, and where to put your focus?

MALLARY: For me, Conferences are kind of...When I started as a librarian I was like, oh, this is a really cool Perk of the job, like you get to travel and go to conferences, and you know you get to meet people. I would say, since the pandemic like I really do enjoy virtual conferences more than in person conferences, but I also enjoy. I fret a lot, ruminate a lot, and so I get a lot of anxiety like going to in person conference. But then, once I'm there, I'm like, Oh, this is great, because you can catch up with people, and you know you get to see the presentations. I will say, like being a former resident librarian, there's a really great like community and cohort of people who were former resident librarians like going back like 10 years, to like current resident librarians. So that's a nice community that you don't really like. We see and talk to each other virtually a lot. But then, to see people in person is kind of the only time you can do it is going to conferences.

 For me at my institution, We automatically get a certain amount of money every year. Professional development funds which you can use. You can't use them to pay for your like professional organizations, but you can use them to pay for conferences, or to pay for like a certificate, or like a class that you want to take, and so, or you don't have to use it, and then it just gets swept up into like a big fund. And then, if you need additional funds. Outside of that you can go to. We have administrative deans here. So you go to your administrative dean, and then you have to like, make a point that I'm doing. XY, and Z. In this conference. And this is why it's beneficial to like my professional development. But you don't have to do that if you just want to go to a conference, you can just go and not present. And because you have that set funds to go, which is nice

 Also here at Florida, State. They give you extra money your 1st year. So normally, we get $1,500. I think they give you $1,800 your 1st year to like. Go to all the conferences that you can go to within that, you know, budget. So that is also also useful. But I would say that it, doesn't it? Really? I I think here you have a lot of autonomy to kind of go to conferences that are intriguing to you in your career as a librarian, and either get to, you know, pick an area of research that you want to present on or to present or to submit a proposal, or you can just go just to go. They really like it when you go to regional conferences, mostly just because it's more like cost effective.

LACIE: So I've I have like a a couple of things that I kinda wanna hit on with this to one thing like you talked about funding and things like that. As a like a library assistant, I get very, very minimal actual professional development funds. So I think right now, I currently get $200, and I've been just like Super, Super, Fortunate that I've been able to go to these conferences that and and travel because you know, those costs are way outside of the bounds of of what, like my role traditionally gets at our institution, and I think a big part of that is that I am almost always presenting at these conferences, too. So I think it's, you know, our institution. We're we're excited to get out there and kind of like share about the work that we do. 

But another angle of this, and like a way of kind of framing, how how do you kind of  choose which conference and what you want to present on is just kind of thinking about. What kind of conversation do you want to have, or what conversations do you want to start discussing with with other people. because I think, and especially with all the different types of presentations you can do. You can do like a workshop. You can do a a poster presentation, or or just a regular presentation with, you know, discussions at the end, and and things like that make it more interactive. It's a really great way to just you're you're also sharing your work. But you do want to hear about how these issues are impacting people from from all over, and I think that's really important. And I think it might be a helpful way of kind of thinking about. You know, where do you want to have this conversation. and on the the other side of that, if you're not presenting. like the people who are presenting like want you to go to their presentation to have those discussions. So I think that's a really a valuable part like we, we need participants to to be a part of it too. So even if you're not presenting your experiences and input is is valued just by being there. So get out there and go.

XOCHITL: Yeah, I mean, I was thinking, Mallary, you mentioned how like, when you're like early on in your career, you're like, Oh, I can go to conferences. This is a perk of the job that I feel like I'm still kind of in that thing I'm like, Wow, they'll just like pay for me to go somewhere. That's amazing. And like early on. because, like in grad school, I was like I heard about like ALA and ACRL. I'm like, oh, those are just the conferences you go to, because, like classmates were going to it, I went to the University of Illinois. So like I feel like they have a very big representation there. ALA, so to me, that's like, Oh, yeah, those are the conferences you go to. And then, now that I've been working, I know we're probably all on like a million list serves throughout, like ALA  ACRL everything. And so that's been like a way to hear like conferences that may be more relevant to the work that I'm doing so. That's kind of I I think that's kind of where I'm at. 

This is the 1st time I go to ACRL, since it's every other year. So I'm just like I should go. This is like a thing that people do. And I know people that I work with have gone before, and they really like going. And I because it's in Minneapolis. So I went to college in Minnesota. I was like, this is the perfect time for me to go. So that's definitely right. Now how I'm thinking of conferences in terms of funding where I'm at. It's a liberal Arts college. So we're staff, not faculty. So we don't really get like professional development for funding the same way. I we always joke that it's kind of like you asked to go to a conference, and you never actually know if there's like a max for how much you could spend, you just kind of ask someone like with the guess of a amount of money, and like, maybe they'll say yes, maybe they'll say no and I've been, which is like in some ways it's like that's fun in some ways. It's actually really stressful, because I'm kind of just like maybe they'll let me go somewhere. And I've really lucky to have a supervisor that I can work with to deal with that 

And I also know that I'm like in a position of like, I'm a subject librarian. I'm a teaching librarian where they're very like. Yes, you should go to these conferences where I know, like people who are more like the library assistant roles here it's been like, don't necessarily have the same freedom or like opportunities to go to these conferences like in other areas. And I think now, I've kind of getting to the point where I'm like, yeah, I guess regional conferences are very specific conferences will make the most sense for me. So yeah, I'm still like conferences are like a big mystery to me that I'm slowly figuring out which has been fun. But also I do. I would like some guidance whether it's funding, or like any other way.

HANNAH: I just want to like briefly echo that of my job before this was at a, you know, Liberal Arts College, where all the librarians professional development funding was pooled in one  budget line. And so it's kind of like figuring out it each year who gets to go where and at that job, like the regional conferences, were super helpful. So if you're at an institution where, like you don't have much money, the New England chapter of  ACRL. I think the the registration was just like $45 or something, and you can just usually drive there. You might. You're not going to necessarily need a hotel, and so the costs are a lot lower. And I think, in a way, it's less intimidating to attend, and it's still like lots of useful information sharing. So yeah, if you're at a place where you don't have your own professional development budget line, or you know, you don't have that much like regional conferences are still super helpful, and don't know if I would necessarily say, like you are missing out. I don't know if you have to feel like too much of a fear of missing out if you're just able to attend the smaller ones.

XOCHITL: That also reminded me. You say that, like New England small conferences. I'm also really lucky that Smith is a part of aconsortium with the other colleges in the area. So it's like umass Amherst Amherst College, Mount Holyoke. We're in like this 5 college consortium that we do some professional development within the 5 colleges. So I do think that's also like a great way that I'm like, I'm not really paying for these things, but we'll have like talks at the different colleges throughout the year. So that's another like cost saving regional, amazing thing. And we're all learning from each other constantly.

MALLARY: I wanted to add that when I started out in libraries. When I went to the Society of American Archivist Concert I was an archives assistant, and so it was kind of the same as Lacey like. There was not a set aside amount of funding, for, you know, library assistance to go to conferences. But here we have a scholarship depending on your rank. and so I got a scholarship, and then they paid for me to go, which was nice, and so I worked. I was an archives assistant, and then I was the public librarian, and when I worked at the Public Library conferences were kind of like, what are you talking about? We're not going to a conference which I also found interesting because it was like I was in this academic librarian world, where it was just like a given that you could go to conferences where the Public Library, because of funding and all sorts of issues. It was just not a thing unless it was a regional conference. Then they were like, yeah, sure, please go. The year I worked at the Public Library, was the year that ALA was in Orlando, but still they had limited funding. It was like a lottery for people to go, and then they just got a van, and everybody drove to Orlando. But it was not a given that you could just go. If you wanted to go like you had to have a reason. You had to explain why you wanted to go. And  and and it was. It was just that. That's just how they ran it. And so I did not go to ALA. I've never actually been to an ALA before, like ALA seems like very overwhelming, but I find it interesting that ALA. 

from my understanding, is like geared towards public librarians, but like a lot of public librarians, can't afford to go, ALA, especially now that ALA is in more of these like really expensive places. So I always found that like very confusing about ALA. But you know I don't know if that's just me.

STEPHANIE: I don't think it's just you, I mean, I feel like that comes up even just like across librarianship, but especially in public libraries. It's like, Yeah, how are we supposed to get all this funding? Also, when funding is being cut? All the fun stuff like that. And so before we move, and I just wanted to like, ask one more. Follow up. Do you have any tips for someone on how to make the case to their supervisors, to their institution. That this is a worthy investment. I guess

MALLARY: I think it can be made that you should be able to go to these professional development conferences, especially if the itinerary is out. So for these larger conferences, like ALA or  ACRL, I think a case could be made pretty clearly that this is a good thing for you as a librarian or library assistant, to go and learn from these conferences, and you can make the case that it aligns with, like your library mission or school's mission, that you are going and like learning these things that can later add to your job whether it's interacting with students or whether you do tech stuff like there. There are reasons why it can align with not only the library's mission, but the University's mission. So I think that is a great way to kind of advocate just going to the conference, especially if these larger conferences, I think for regional conferences.

I think a case could be made the same way that it benefits the university or college, based on, like the mission and goals of the university or college, but also from what I've seen, regional conferences tend to be more like budget friendly. So I think that's another case that can be made and said, I'm getting this professional development activities that can help me grow in my career. And then I can also align that with the work that I do to help students and faculty, etc, because I can do my job better because I learned all this at this conference.

HANNAH: So you've maybe decided which conference you're going to. We received a lot of questions from people about logistics and preparing ahead of time for the conference, especially around what to wear and what to bring. So how do you dress for a conference? And do you dress differently, depending on whether you're an attendee or a presenter? And what are your other must have items.

LACIE: Yes, I love planning ahead. I'm kind of very anxious about like going to new places and things like that. So again, I'm I'm looking at the Sched. I'm you know, I'm looking at the website. I'm looking on Google Maps. I'm also kind of just a map freak. So I just love looking at maps, anyways. But I I am a planner in that regard. But when it comes to kind of like making decisions about kind of like what sessions I'm gonna go to and things like that I'll pick, maybe, especially for like a larger conference like I found acro to be like very overwhelming and like choosing what sessions to go to, and things like that, because there's so many different things happening all at the same time. And they they kind of have different  different lengths and things like that. So you really kind of have to be aware of of all all the things to be able to make a decision about what you're doing. But I'll I'll pick a couple of things, and I won't commit until, you know. The moment you know, I'm gonna be like, what what does my heart want to do right now  and: then? Then I'll go do that, you know, or or I'll maybe like talk to talk to somebody. Be like I'm headed to to this one, and I could totally change my mind. And that's that's totally fine. Yeah, just kind of like follow your gut in the day, but I I do feel that it's very helpful to have an awareness of what's going on, or like what I might be interested in. Also kind of have an idea. If you want to take a break at some point during the day, you know, if there's no sessions going on that really strike your fancy. Maybe that's a good time to just take a little bit of a breather. Take a little bit of a break. That's okay, too. And as far as like dressing, I again, I I feel I agree, not just kind of anything goes, you know, wear what you would wear to work.  Be comfortable, you know. Have your regular like work bag and your emotional support water bottle. Another thing that I've really enjoyed is coordinating with my co-presenters on what to wear, too. So just a just a tip, maybe. Think of a theme like one of our favorite themes is like jewel tones which it looks nice. It looks sharp. But again, you know, it totally depends. If I know it's a smaller conference, and I don't have to walk a lot. I'm gonna wear the cute shoes, but if it's you know Winter and I'm trudging through the snow, I'll probably wear my Doc Martins any. Anything's fine.

XOCHITL: I will say that for me the one thing I like the conferences. And this might be like the most librarian answer is that I love logistics so much like as soon as the schedule went out for Acr. I'm like, Okay, I have to like, look at every single thing. Figure out what I want to do. I've already looked at like what restaurants are close to my hotel like, where can I go eat like Yeah? Like, I've already looked into that, because I think it's fun. So that's just like my nerdy answer of like, what do you do to prepare? I remember, I think, honestly going to ALA, where it's like a lot of public librarians, made me more. I feel like they got to wear like their fun T-shirts with their children's books, and like all these cool library sayings, I'm like, wait, I can like dress cool and fun. So part of me is like, is it different at  ACRL? Do I have to look more professional?

 I think the now I kind of think of it like what I would wear for work was probably what I would just wear to these conferences, because I'm not wearing like extreme business where I'm not wearing like a suit and tie. I don't know but it's also like, get that mix of casual business casual. Is being comfortable. I think. I also realized, like, I'm probably going to be walking around. It's going to be in a big conference center. I'll probably be walking to my hotel. So just be really comfortable. And I think also because I used to live in Minnesota. I'm kind of like preparing, especially like I'm like, just because it's April. It doesn't mean it'll be warm. There might be snow just kind of thinking through those type of things so like there's always someone from work who's also going. They're like, Oh, maybe it'll be warm. I'm like, actually, I don't think so. I remember every like April blizzard I got when I was there. So thinking, even just like where you're going and what the weather will be like.

MALLARY: I want to echo what they've said. I think, being comfortable, planning and checking the weather. I'm a huge like weather nerd, and so, and it didn't even dawn on me till last week, because I live in Florida right? And so it's already like 85 degrees here. And so I waslike, oh, it Probably it's not going to be 85 degrees in Minnesota. So and I don't have like winterC. So I have to like figure that out. It's the shoes are the biggest thing for me, because, like, I usually just wear like, you know, I have like croc sandals. I usually wear like sandals on a regular basis that are pretty comfortable, and I know I can't do that in Minnesota for the most part. So like, that's a key for me when it comes to like clothes. I usually just wear what I would wear to work, you know. Sometimes I may pack like the cute, or like the fancy dress, you know, not even for the conference, like, if you're going to meet up with folks or like you want to go to dinner like sometimes I'll do that. But but yeah, like weather plays a big influence on like what I can pack. But I usually just dress the way I dress at work when I go to conferences I try to be like more professional. But you know I don't. I use air quotes. And I said professional, because I don't really know. I know what that means, but I don't know what that means. So I just try to be comfortable right and be aware of the weather, and then be aware of the itinerary. And yeah, I also try to plan ahead on like you know what I want to like. Look at when I go to the conference. A big thing for me is like the keynote, and like closing speaker like, Who's that? Who is that gonna be? And like making sure I'm there in time to like hear it if I really do want to hear it. Weather and like being comfortable. Yeah, which they've already said are the 2 biggest things for me.

LACIE: Just have one little thing to add to like, even if you're presenting, and you feel like you have to be more professional, I would just say. be yourself and dress authentically to who you are, because I think that's gonna, you know, make you more comfortable when you're presenting. And it's gonna like, give you a little bit more confidence, just, you know, feeling like yourself. So don't feel pressure. I feel like us us library folks. We're cool. We're casual, you know. Don't don't worry about it so much.

STEPHANIE: Those are some great tips I really appreciate. This is going to be like it is my 1st time presenting a poster I'm presenting with Hannah. So, Hannah, it looks like we will be touching base about what we will be wearing to our poster session. I also just kind of want to plug, you know, dressing in layers. I have been to like one primary like in person regional conference, and I remember the big ballrooms were cold, but the small rooms were really stuffy, especially when they were popular. For me, I can't do anything better than the librarian Cardigan, you know.

XOCHITL: Speaking of the library and Cardigan, I remember when I went to ALA, I had this moment of like I'm dressed like every single person. Here we have the same canvas bags, we have the same Cardigans, we have the same glasses. It was like such a life changing life, affirming moment it was like, I'm going to lean into the stereotype.

STEPHANIE: So y'all kind of started talking a little bit about preparing for sessions as well as like taking breaks. And so this actually leads into some other questions we have specifically about like one taking care of yourself at a conference. Folks were concerned about like fear of missing out between sessions as well as like avoiding burnout and staying energized. Do you have any kind of like tips or things that you like to incorporate into your routine for these, or like, especially during a multi-day conference. How do you stay energized, or at least maintain some energy for yourself?

MALLARY: I will say for me. Taking in breaks like actually planning your day so that you know you can't go to all the things right. So you have to kind of start accepting that, you know, you can't go to everything right? And so really like prioritizing. And then having a backup plan, too, because sometimes you'll go into a presentation or a round table, and it will be packed, and you can't really even go to it, because there's so many people there. So maybe having a backup plan, you know, because I don't know. I get disappointed, you know, because I am. I have this thought in my head, and if I don't do it, then I get disappointed. So like accepting that I can't go to everything, and then having a backup plan just makes me feel a little bit better, and then this has already been said, but just like putting in breaks into like incorporating breaks into the conference schedule. So that is like super important. 

And then Lacey already said this, too, but like making sure you have water like just, you know, even like little snacks, like, I think, depending on the conference. Sometimes they're pretty good with snacks, or like good with, like, you know. Oh, here's a little break here and there, like sometimes they're good about it. I don't. I've never been to an in person ARLC, or else this will be my 1st time, so I don't know if they're gonna be good with that or not. But yeah, just  bringing a snack with you, bringing your water and then building in breaks into your like playing schedule is, it has helped me a lot when I've had breaks. And then kind of knowing, like Google Maps, to write like if you were not a fortunate person to get a hotel in the same place where the conference is happening, which sometimes can be really glorious, because you can just go upstairs to your room and take a break then, but, like I know, with  ACRL, I was not one of the fortunate people to get a hotel, because they were all gone like in a blink of an eye. For me. It's like kind of planning, like, okay, if I do want to take a break at my hotel like planning out how long it's going to take me to get to the hotel, and if I'm going to come back to the conference. if I'm not going to be able to go back to my hotel. Maybe this is a good time to kind of like wander downtown and like, see what's going on outside of the conference, and then just kind of planning that and incorporating that into your schedule.

XOCHITL:  like I echo everything, Mallary said. I know I'm like a mix of an extrovert and an introvert. But there's times where I'm like I'm just gonna go lay in my A/C hotel room and just like sit in silence for a bit. I'm also so like last summer I went to ALA in San Diego, and I was like, when's the next time I'm going to go to San Diego. This is so far it's an expensive place to go. So I said, I really got into like the idea of leading to the city that the conference is in. If you're going to the in person one. So someone be like, Oh, what are you doing tomorrow? I'm like, oh, I'm going to the Art Museum, and I just wouldn't talk to anyone for like 5 h, and I was just off doing my own thing, and I feel like similar with like Minnesota. As soon as I saw the conference was going to be in Minneapolis. I knew where I was going. I'm like what concerts are here when I'm here. Can I convince my friend to like? Go to this thing or that thing? So I think, maybe taking advantage of the like you're there for work, and it's fun. And that's like a whole thing. But also just lean to the fact that you get to go to this new city. Maybe. So, there's yeah. I think that's 1 of my biggest things taking a break. And because I think I have like a constant ike, Fomo is constantly. It's something I've always experienced, no matter what. So I liked what you said about like, you're gonna miss out on some things. And that's okay. And accepting that because I think that's something I am constantly battling in my everyday life. So like kind of put it in those breaks for yourself is great.

LACIE: I'll also just echo what both of you have have talked about, because I do think it's so important to give yourself some grace and allow yourself to go explore that city, because, yeah, it's a great opportunity to just see new places. So definitely, you know, you might have the fear of missing out on some things, but you can also spend your time to learn and experience other things as well. So it's not like you're. It's you're not missing out. You're just doing something different. And one of the other things that I think that I've kind of done accidentally. But I I see the pattern in myself. I'm very introverted, and people are very surprised about that. But I I do need my introvert time. So a lot of times I'll just kind of scope out the the venue of whatever conference I'm at, and I'll just naturally gravitate towards a spot, and I find my spot, and that's where I can go to take a break, go like, check my email, really quick, or catch up on something else. Or you know, would it just eat a snack? Something where I can kind of like chill, relax, maybe be kind of almost alone, or, you know, with with fellow individuals who are also introverted, and don't want to talk to anybody else. Just find a place that you feel comfortable to, to take a little bit of a breather.

HANNAH:So I think that kind of introvert extrovert thing is a good transition to our next question about networking, especially if we got some questions about that, especially if you're not attending with a coworker or someone that you already know. So how do you approach meeting new people, creating connections and networking at a conference?

LACIE: I can start this one out because I've done this a couple of times. I do find networking very challenging, because I am kind of so introverted. But a lot of times when you're in these other sessions and stuff, you might see people and and notice that they have these common interests. If you're kind of going to all the same sessions, so I like to just call them my my chum, you know. Maybe I'll like notice that. Oh, hey! You know they're familiar. They were in that other session, and I'll I'll sit next to them. So then, like hopefully, we kind of have a chance to, you know. Discuss those sessions and and talk about our work and get to know each other a little bit more. I also think that there are a lot of opportunities when you're in sessions like, even at a keynote presentation or or anything else.

Hopefully, they're gonna have some time where you can do kind of like the good old think pair share. you know. And I I do think there's a lot of opportunities for that, and I think it can benefit warm you up to making connections with all of these wonderful strangers. Because you might find somebody that you really jive with, and and you can learn from each other. a a lot of times, especially during like the snack times, or there's a provided lunch. It can be really intimidating, like the good old like lunch room situation, where you don't know where to sit. Just pick a spot. Don't be afraid. I've never had an experience like sitting at a table with people I don't know that went totally wrong, you know. Just introduce yourself. Ask where you're from, what what your role is, and and conversation kind of just like. Naturally happen. You know us librarians are, we'd like to chit chat. We like to be nice. We like to help people.

XOCHITL: Yeah, I feel like, this is something that I've definitely I have like this idea what I'm supposed to do at a conference. I'm like, I have to network. I have to meet all these things like, Am I doing this right. But something I especially realized last summer when I went to a conference. Was that one like you said librarians do love to chit chat like, even if you're anxious about talking to someone, there's always someone who has no anxiety at all. And like we need those people to exist. I'm like there's just so many random people it's like, Oh, we sat next to each other at like the keynote, or like there's some girl who she was like. Oh, my God, I love your pants, and we like spent so long talking about like our clothes and what we wear. And now she like follows me on Instagram this 1st time randomly met. It's like, like, I think I've really like networking isn't just like being all like hoity-toity and talking about business and work. It's also just like meeting people the way you would normally meet people. And at some point you'll probably talk about your work. I think, as librarians. We love to talk about libraries so like it'll come up eventually. 

So I think that's something I had to really remind myself is like. I'm going to meet all these different people, and it's going to be fine and like, even if I'm too nervous to really go up to someone, there's always going to be someone who will come up and talk to you, although this time I am lucky because I'm going so with someone who we're presenting together, and someone, my job is good, so part of me is like, Oh, thank God, I don't have to do too much, but I'll definitely still have to like put myself out there, which is always a fun exercise.

MALLARY: Yeah, I will. I will say that like, I don't like the term networking like. It's very like business, Jargony. Right? So for me, it's like, whatever definition that is in my head I like. Put it aside, and I agree with like what both of you have said, I think that just just like talking to people like librarians are nice. And so most of the time nobody's going to be like, why are you talking to me like? It's not, I think, about that scene from mean girls, you know, when they're in the cafeteria, and it's not like that at conferences. You really can't just go sit at a table, and most of the time somebody will just talk to you, because, you know, we're all like nice people who are excited to be. At this conference together. I was at a conference in 2021. It was the idea. It was an ALA ideal conference. And that was, that was a really great conference. And they there's like name badges which I think is helpful. So I think a lot of the times. ALA does the whole like badge thing, too. I don't know if they're going to do it,  ACRL, but I think it is like icebreaker type of like way to be like, oh, you have this thing, too. And so it's it's it's also like an easy way just to kind of like, break down that wall and just start talking to people. 

But I think I think the biggest thing for me when I think about networking is to not think of it as networking, but just like.you know, you compliment somebody on their sweater or their pants, and then, you know, then you just have a nice conversation, and then, if you see them later, you're like, Oh, hey? And you did make a friend right? And so not going in thinking like I have to talk about business and talk about libraries, and just say, I just want to go in and like, say Hi! To people and hear about what they do at their school or university, or their library, and you know that is networking. It's just not this like very like business jargon expectation, you know, like. I guess what I'm trying to say is like, if you lower your expectation of what networking is, then it's not as scary. So I think that's a good way to think about it.

HANNAH: Mallary, I really like what you said about that, because I think  to me like my 1st big conference. I went to him like I have to network. I have to make the most of the money my institution is spending on me, and make these connections that are going to be beneficial to me and my job. But that puts on a lot of pressure. And, like, you know, all of those people you talk to, you're not going to necessarily end up creating collaborations with, but meeting real people who are also there to learn and not like that utilitarian like, I need to increase my professional network capital P Professional and professional network.

STEPHANIE: So, last question, how do you go from being a an attendee to a presenter? or any last tips that you feel like you want to share open-ended.

MALLARY: I can go real quick about just like putting together a proposal. At 1st I thought, and I've put together like multiple proposals. And you know, I think you have to just go in accepting that it. You know, it is a proposal, right? That is just because you did. It doesn't mean it's going to get accepted. And it's okay. If it doesn't get accepted. And it's great. If it does get accepted for me, I've always just gone in the research that I'm interested in and just kind of followed that lead and it factors into the work that I do. And so for me. I think it shows in your proposal that you're actually like, interested and passionate about this subject matter, and that really helps to, you know, get the proposal accepted. So I would just say, kind of follow whatever passion or interest that you have in research, and, you know, kind of put your all into the proposal, and if it doesn't get accepted, then you've got an idea to submit for another proposal at another time. Right? So it's I've heard so many times. Librarians talk about recycling proposals, and I love it. So I think that is a if it doesn't get accepted, it's something you could use and maybe refine later on. But you know, just because it didn't get accepted doesn't mean it's like the end of this research idea. It could. It's just it didn't get accepted this time, and you can try again later and maybe get different collaborators, or approaching it in a different way. But there is always a way to like, take your interest and turn it into research, and submit a proposal for it.

XOCHITL: Well, I said at the end, this is my 1st like ever proposal thing. So I'm like, I don't know if I have much tips, but I know for us it was just it came out of after having, like my 1st year of being like a real, not kind of baby librarian, and like my friend, is also like similarly just getting started. And I was like, I want to put myself out there, but like I don't, I'm not ready for like a full conference paper or panel, or anything so like one we're thinking about the format like community chat isn't anything too scary. And then also, we were just thinking of like, well, if we want to create this sense of community. What can do that? What's something that like would give people-- either people would be interested in or like. It'd be something that people could bring a lot to the table with without necessarily having to prepare for it. So like we like, have like a zoom, brainstorming session of like we don't know what these things are meant to do. I don't even know what a community chat is, but like, we kind of just kind of focus on what we are interested in. Like you're saying. Like we, I feel like as librarians. We always have, like a million different interests floating around. So that's kind of where we finally landed on an idea theme for our community chat. I don't. I don't know if that's like real advice, but I think really, I'm like, listen to Mallary, and then I will say, just go for it, and it'll happen, and don't take it to. We'll take it seriously. But, like don't take it too seriously. Don't take it. Personally.

LACIE: I love that. And I also think it's super important to remember that you can collaborate if you know, doing a proposal or presenting is something that is more more scary for you, you know. Find your support system.  and you know whether that's people at your institution or people, you know, from library, school, or or something like that, just connect with other people to go through that process together, because I think having those different perspectives can be really helpful in crafting a proposal. But also when you are presenting like at the conference as well. and also, like you said, just get out there, you know. Is there a cool thing that you've done?

Maybe you've had like super success with this one project that you've been working on. Or maybe there's, you know, something that was a total fail. And and you want to kind of like talk more about that with like other people. I think there's just like such a big range of like what you can actually talk about at a conference and what you can present about. So I say, just, you know, put yourself out there. And again, you know. Don't worry too much about it. Don't take it personally, you know. Like all my proposals we're we're denied for ACRL this year. So I get to just be an attendee. And that is just fine. You know, it's gonna be much less stressful for me this time, and that's okay.

STEPHANIE: It has been an absolute pleasure to talk with y'all!

HANNAH: Thank you so much, everyone. This was a very fun 1st panel that we've done!

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HANNAH: this time around, we're skipping an official current awareness segment because, as we'll be mentioning in our  ACRL poster podcasting is not our primary responsibility as fun as this is. We wanted to get this episode out in time for those of you who are attending  ACRL here in Minneapolis, but we have included some current publications, etc, related to this topic on our website.

STEPHANIE: and that brings us to a close here, folks. Thank you for listening

HANNAH: Library Table Talk is produced by me, Hannah Cabullo.

STEPHANIE: and me Stephanie Sparrow.

This episode was edited by Stephanie. You can find us on our website at z.umn.edu/librarytabletalk

HANNAH: This work was made possible by our employer, the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities and University Libraries.

STEPHANIE: Our theme music is "Dirt Bike Lovers" by Blue Dot Sessions.

 Respectfully, Stephanie

HANNAH: and Hannah

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