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George Munro born 1684 in the parish of Cromarty, son of Alexander Munro and Isobel Litch
George Munro born 1684 in the parish of Cromarty, son of Alexander Munro and Isobel Litch
As explained in part 1, George Munro who married in the parish of Avoch in 1729 and who fathered a son named Alexander there in 1739 may have had a brother who was also named Alexander Munro and who lived at the nearby farm of Murialehouse. One possibility therefore is that this George Munro was born in 1684 in the parish of Cromarty, son of Alexr Munro and Issobel Leich as per the parish register, and that George's potential brother Alexander Munro was born in 1683 in the parish of Cromarty, son of Alexr Munro and Marget Mckewnley as per the parish register. They had different mothers so at a first glance could have been half brothers but as explained below their mothers could have been the same person using an alias. There is also a parish baptism in Cromarty for a Marget Manro, daughter of Alexr Manro and Issobel Leich in 1682 with the daughter's first name Marget being the same as that of the mother of Alexr born in 1683. There is a marriage record in the parish of Cromarty for an Alexander Munro and Issobell Litch dated 1681 and it says that she was from the parish of Rosemarkie which is between the parishes of Cromarty and Avoch. There is no marriage record for a Marget Mckewnley. Alexr Monro and Issobel Leich also had a son named Donald in the parish Cromarty in 1688. At a first glance there appears to have been three different men with the same surname or variant who had children with a Marget Mckewnley in the parish of Cromarty: Alexr Munro and Marget Mckewnley who had Alexr in 1683 as mentioned previously, Wam Monro and Marget Mckewnley who had Agnes in April 1687 and Donald Monro and Marget Mckewnley who had Donald in May 1687, the last two being only a month apart and so it seems like she could not be the same woman even though she had the same name, but an explanation for this is given below.
The full list of Cromarty parish register entries for this in date order are:
Marriage: 1681 Alexander Munro and Issobel Litch.
Baptism: 1682 Marget Manro, daughter of Alexr Manro and Issobel Leich.
Baptism: 1683 Alexander Munro, son of Alexr Munro and Marget Mckewnley.
Baptism: 1684 George Munro, son of Alexr Munro and Issobel Leich.
Baptism: April 1687 Agnes Monro, daughter of Wam Monro and Marget Mckewnley in Peddieston.
Baptism: May 1687 Donald Monro, son of Donald Monro and Marget Mckewnley.
Baptism: 1688 Donald Munro, son of Alexr Monro and Issobel Leich.
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Marriage: 1698 Donald Munro and Agnes Williamson (Donald possible brother of Alexander as explained below).
Baptism: 1700 John Monro, son of Hugh Monro and Kath. Syrland, (possible cousin who later moved to Avoch).
Baptism: 1703 Robert Monro, son of Don Monro and Agnes Wmson in Navity, (possible cousin who later moved to Avoch).
Baptism: 1707 Hugh Monro, son of Hugh Monro and Katrin Sutherland, (possible cousin who later moved to Avoch).
My theory for the above is that Issobel Leich and Marget Mckewnley were the same person throughout, the latter name being an alias, the two children baptised in 1687 were twins but who were baptised a month apart, their father using a different alias on each occasion, Donald baptised in 1687 died in infancy and they then had another son named Donald in 1688 as it was normal practice in Scotland in these times to use the name of a deceased child for a subsequent child. It is of course possible that Marget Mckewnly was a completely different woman but all of the baptisms say that her children were "lawful" which means that the parents were married and there is no marriage record for Marget Mckewnley.
On the 1682 baptism for Marget Manro there is a witness named Alexr Manro who was not necessarily the same person who was Alexr Manro the father of Marget. The Alexr Manro who appears as the witness only appears on the baptism of the eldest child of Alexr Manro/Munro/Monro and his wife Issobel Litch/Leich and so he could have been the child's grandfather and did not live long enough to witness the later baptisms. So potentially Alexr Munro and his wife Issobel could be my 6th great grandparents, and the Alexr Manro who was the witness in 1682 could be my 7th great-grandfather. The Alexr born in 1683 would have then been named as the eldest son of Alexr 6th /eldest grandson of Alexr 7th.
Munro family of Navity, parish of Cromarty
Munro family of Navity, parish of Cromarty
The parents of Robert Monro baptised in 1703 were Donald Munro (from parish of Rosemarkie) and Agnes Williamson (from parish of Cromarty) who married in 1698 in the parish of Cromarty. When Robert was born in 1703 they were living in the farmstead of Navity. This Robert Monro could have been a cousin of the above children and I have listed him because as explained below he may have later moved to Avoch with the other sons listed above. Although his father Donald was in the parish of Rosemarkie at the time of his marriage in 1698, this is also where Issobel Litch was at the time of her marriage to Alexander Munro in 1681 and not necessarily where he was born. This Donald Munro could have been a brother of Alexander who in turn could have named his son Donald in 1688 with Isobel Leich after him, if not in 1687 with Marget Mckewnley as well. There is also the 1687 baptism of Agnes Monro, daughter of Wam Monro and Marget Mckewnley, possibly the same couple, and she could have been named after Agnes Williamson. It is also worth noting that in 1725 an Alexander Munro was born in the same farmstead of Navity, son of David Munro and Jannet Williamson who could have been a relative of Agnes Williamson. However, there is a marriage record in the parish of Cromarty for a David Munro from Eathie, parish of Rosemarkie and Mary Williamson in Navity, parish of Cromarty dated 1715 and whose children were: William Monro born in 1719 in Navity and John Monro born in 1724 in Navity. As both were in Navity then Mary Williamson could have been the same person later found in 1725 as Jannet Williamson in Navity using an alias and also married to David Munro.
Map showing Poyntzfield in the parish of Resolis, Peddieston and Navity in the parish of Cromarty, and Eathie in the parish of Rosemarkie
Possible Munro migration from Cromarty to Avoch
Possible Munro migration from Cromarty to Avoch
The Avoch parish baptism register dates back to 1727 and the only male Munros recorded as fathering children in that parish between 1727 and 1752 were named Alexander, George, and Donald, who could have been the the three brothers born in the parish of Cromarty, and Robert, who could have been their cousin also from Cromarty and listed above. The estate owner in the parish of Cromarty at this time was the Mackenzie Earl of Cromartie and the estate owner in the parish of Avoch was his relation Mackenzie of Scatwell. Both the Mackenzie Earls of Cromartie and the Mackenzies of Scatwell descend from the second son of Colin Cam Mackenzie, 11th of Kintail (died 1594). However, as mentioned in part 1, unlike the Mackenzie Earl of Cromartie, Mackenzie of Scatwell did not raise his tenants for the Jacobite cause in 1745. However, in the Jacobite rising of 1715 the roles were reversed with the previous generations with the Mackenzie Earl of Cromartie remaining loyal to the Government and Mackenzie of Scatwell supporting the Jacobites.
The Robert Munro in Avoch was the tacksman as per his parish marriage record of 1729 to Janet Mckeddie. Their eldest son was named Donald (born 1730) and this would match the father's name of the Robert Munro born in 1703 in Cromarty. However, the 1729 marriage record in Avoch confirms that Janet Mckeddie's father was also called Donald which could be where their son's name came from in 1730. NRS items RH15/44/199 and RH15/44/274 show that there was a Robert Munro living on the Newhall Estate in the parish of Resolis in 1762-1778 and also listed on the rent records are Donald Mckeddie and Janet Mckeddie. Although only name matches it would appear to show that Robert Munro along with his wife Janet Mckeddie and her father Donald had moved from the parish of Avoch to the parish of Resolis. If as explained in part 1, the unnamed child of Alexr Munro in 1768 in the parish of Resolis is Hugh Munro then it could be that Hugh named his second son Robert in 1791 in Caithness after this Robert Munro as they lived in the same parish. NRS item RH15/44/240A shows that Robert Munro was in arrears in 1778 and 1780. However, it also lists a Widow Munro in place of him in 1777 at the farmstead he lived at, so the arears of 1778 and 1780 could be retrospective.
The cautioner for the marriage of Robert Munro in 1729 in the parish Avoch was an Alexr Munro who could have been the person born in 1683 in Cromarty. The Alexander Munro in the parish of Avoch was living at the farm called Murialehouse at the time of the baptism of his first five children from 1729 to 1739, but is found living at the nearby farm of Halloch at the baptism of his sixth child in 1742. Halloch was the farm where George Munro was living when his son Alexr was born in 1739. This therefore suggests that George could have left the farm of Halloch after his son Alexr was born there in 1739, his brother Alexr possibly taking his place in the tenancy as per the baptism of 1742.
NRS item E612/1 shows an Alexander Munro and John Munro in a list of just nine tenants on the Estate of Avoch in 1718-1719 which was then owned by John Mackenzie of Avoch but which was being sold to Charles Mackenzie, a writer in Edinburgh. There is no George Munro or any other Munros listed on this record. It does not give the specific places of residence of the tenants other than that they were in Avoch. NRS item E655/3 which includes lists of tenants who lived in Avoch and who paid rent to William Mackenzie, Earl of Seaforth shows an Alexander Munro twice in 1727 and once in 1728. Again the specific place of residence is not given, only that he was in Avoch and there is no George Munro or any other Munros listed.
NRS item GD121/1/Box 80/449 shows that there was an Alexander Munro and a John Munro in two lists of tenants on the Mackenzie of Royston Estate in the parish of Avoch in 1747 but although the adjoining descriptions are quite detailed there is no mention on how or if they were related. It says that John Munro was aged 67 in 1747 so born about 1680. The only John Munro to appear in the Avoch parish registers in this period is a marriage record from 1742 to an Isobell Munro and no children are recorded. Although George Munro is not listed on these records for the Royston Estate, a George Munro is listed in 1757 in the rental records for the Rosehaugh Estate in NRS item SC34/29/8 then living in Rosemarkie which is between Avoch and Cromarty, and it was the Rosehaugh Estate which he served as gardener to as per the Avoch parish register entries for his marriage and children's baptisms and which was then held by Mackenzie of Scatwell. In SC34/29/8 there are rent records up to 1763 but the last mention of George Munro is in 1760 which could be the year he died meaning he lived to about 76 years old if he is the George Munro born in 1684 in the parish of Cromarty.
NRS item SC34/29/8 also shows a Hugh Munro who appears on the rental records for the Rosehaugh Estate several times from 1739 onwards and who the above mentioned Hugh Munro born in 1768 could have been named after. Two children were born to a Hugh Munro in the parish of Avoch, John in 1753 and an unnamed child in 1755. There was also a Hugh Monro baptised in the parish of Cromarty in 1707, son of another Hugh Monro and Katrin Sutherland. So if the father of young Alexander Munro born in 1739 in the parish of Avoch, George Munro, had a brother or cousin named Hugh Munro there who acted as an uncle to Alexander, then Alexander could have named his son Hugh after him in 1768.
Alexander Munro could also have named his eldest son John born in 1767 in Resolis after the John Munro who married in Avoch in 1742. If this is the John Munro found in the rent records and born about 1680 then he would have been about 62 when he married in 1742 which makes sense for him not to have any children recorded in the parish registers, especially if his wife was an older woman as well. The rent record of 1747 also shows that he was a widower. The marriage record of 1742 says that he was a merchant which seems to match his status as a slightly higher paying tenant in the rent records. However, there is a parish baptism record in Cromarty dated 1700 for John Monro, son of Hugh Monro and Kath. Syrland. This John was the elder brother of Hugh born in 1707 but he would not be old enough to be the John Munro recorded as aged 67 in the 1747 rent record. Either of them could be the John Munro who married in 1742.
It is of course possible that as the Avoch parish baptism register only dates back to 1727 that all these Munros who were in the parish were born there and there is no record of their baptisms. However, as mentioned above the only male Munros recorded as fathering children there between 1727 and 1752 were Alexander, George and Donald, for whom there are baptism matches in the parish of Cromarty as possible brothers, Robert, who as a possible cousin also has a baptism match in Cromarty, Hugh who had two children in Avoch in 1753 and 1755 and also has a baptism match in Cromarty as a possible cousin, and John who married in Avoch in 1742 and also has a baptism match in Cromarty.
The people listed in the above mentioned estate and rental records were the tenants who as explained by the Clan Munro Association were of a higher status than the cottars (labourers) and the servants who were not included in these 18th century rental lists but who were recorded in the parish registers. However, the early to mid-19th century rental records for the village of Armadale linked on the left did include the labourers who were then paying rent direct to the estate.
One theory I have regarding the John Munro who was born in about 1680 was that he was the first child of Alexander Munro and Isobel Litch but from before they married in 1681, so he was born out of wedlock but there is no way of verifying this as there is no parish baptsim record. It would mean that the size of the property owned by the Munros in the parish of Avoch, as tenants, would go in order of the age of the brothers: John, born in 1680, and Alexander, born in 1683, owned the most as tenants on the Royston Estate, followed by George, born in 1684 who appears to have held less as a tenant on the Rosehaugh Estate. Although Donald Munro appears in the Avoch parish registers he does not appear in the estate records as a tenant which suggests that as the youngest son, born in 1688, he was of a lower class as a cottar or labourer and less well off. He is described in the parish records as a fisher.
Possible paternal ancestry of Munros of Armadale.pdfAn alternative theory - George Munro born in the parish of Avoch
An alternative theory - George Munro born in the parish of Avoch
An alternative theory I have is that John Munro born in 1680 was actually the father of Alexander, George, Donald and the other Munros in the parish of Avoch in this period, that they were born there and did not come from the parish of Cromarty at all. As John was born in 1680, this would work if these male Munros recorded as having children in Avoch between 1727 and 1755 were born in the early 1700s. There are name matches for Alexander Munros and Donald Munros in the kirk session registers for the parish of Cromarty around the same time that Alexander, George and Donald were in the parish of Avoch which could rule them out as being the same people.
Although as mentioned above the John Munro who lived in the parish of Avoch and who was born in about 1680 was a tenant of the Royston Estate in 1747, there were also tenants of the Rosehaugh Estate in the parish of Avoch and NRS item CS96/1342/2 shows that there was a tenant on the Rosehaugh Estate named John Munro for each year from 1736 to 1740. Although George Munro who was the father of Alexr Munro in Avoch in 1739 and who worked as the gardener to the Rosehaugh Estate owner, Mackenzie of Scatwell, is not mentioned as tenant in this record, this is probably because even though his occupation was as gardener to the estate owner, he had not yet become part of the tenantry class. Or if John was his father that he lived under his tenancy. NRS item CS96/1342/1 shows that there was a tenant on the Rosehaugh Estate named Ann Munroe in 1725 and she could be the same Ann Munro who George Munro married in the parish of Avoch in 1729. It also shows a tenant called John Munro on the Rosehaugh Estate in 1721 who paid rent in the form of a lamb.
Possible paternal ancestry of Munros of Armadale - alternative theory.pdfA third and final theory - Ann Munro
A third and final theory - Ann Munro
Version 1: daughter of John Munro
Version 1: daughter of John Munro
One third and final theory I have is regarding Ann Munro who married George Munro in the parish of Avoch in 1729. Alexander Munro who lived at Murialehouse in the parish of Avoch might not have been George's brother but his brother-in-law and son of John, and that George being the only one of the three Munro brothers born in the parish of Cromarty whose name is missing from the Cromarty kirk session records mentioned above is because although he was born there in 1684, son of Alexander, he moved to Avoch. As mentioned previously the Avoch parish baptism register dates back to 1727 and two of the first four Munro or Monro baptisms were for daughters named Anne, one in 1728, daughter of Donald, and one in 1731, daughter of Alexander. This shows that Anne was an important name to them and Ann Munro was George Munro's wife's name who he married in Avoch in 1729. So she could have been the sister of Alexander and Donald in Avoch and her husband George could have had brothers named Alexander and Donald in Cromarty. There is one possible Cromarty parish marriage record for the Alexander Munro born in 1683 there, in 1709, but none for George Munro born in 1684 or Donald Munro born in 1687/88. There are no possible Cromarty parish baptism entries for children of Alexander Munro born there in 1683 or of George Munro born there in 1684, but there are some possibilities for children of Donald Munro born there in 1687/1688. I have checked all of the Cromarty estate rental records for this period but none of them include lists of tenants.
As mentioned above, NRS item CS96/1342/1 shows that there was a tenant on the Rosehaugh Estate named Ann Munroe in 1725 and she could be the same Ann Munro who George Munro married in the parish of Avoch in 1729. It also shows a tenant called John Munro on the Rosehaugh Estate in 1721 who paid rent in the form of a lamb. They could have been father and elder daughter. Although as mentioned above the John Munro who lived in the parish of Avoch and who was born in about 1680 was a tenant of the Royston Estate in 1747, there were also tenants of the Rosehaugh Estate in the parish of Avoch and NRS item CS96/1342/2 shows that there was a tenant on the Rosehaugh Estate named John Munro for each year from 1736 to 1740.
This John Munro could have been the third son of George Munro, III of Novar who was a cadet of the Munros of Foulis and listed on page 510 of Alexander Mackenzie's 1898 History of the Munros of Fowlis. It is in the right time period and would work because although my Y-chromosome DNA shows that I am not descended from the Munros of Foulis through the direct male line, this would be through a female line, Ann Munro the wife of George Munro in Avoch. The John Munro on page 510 of Mackenzie's book also had a sister named Ann who he could have named his daughter after. The Munros of Novar descend from a younger son of the Munros of Pittonachy which later became known as Rosehaugh in the parish of Avoch as explained at the beginning of page 509.
It is not impossible, but unlikely for Ann Munro shown on page 510 of Mackenzie's book as the sister of John to have also been the Ann Munro who married George Munro in 1729. This is because for her to have given birth to Alexr Munro in 1739 as wife of George Munro in Avoch and also to have been the sister of John Munro who for this scenario was the same John Munro born in 1680, then she would have to have been a lot younger than him. I have seen examples of 20 years or more between siblings in these times. For example, James Munro born in 1791 in Durness, son of Alexander Munro and Barbara Mackay, and their youngest son Mackay (John) Munro born in 1812 in Armadale is 21 years apart. The normal reproductive age for women is apparently from age 12 to 49 and going on that even if she was 49 in 1739 when Alexr Munro was born she could have been born no earlier than 1690 at the most. There were only six children from this first marriage of George Munro, III of Novar, and although the daughters are always listed after the sons regardless of their age, Ann is listed as the eldest daughter. He also had four more children from a second marriage who need to have been sired before he died which appears to be no later than 1702. This makes it difficult to fit Ann's birth as the eldest daughter from the first marriage to some time after 1690. So I think the Ann Munro who married George Munro in 1729 in Avoch is more likely to have been John Munro's daughter, although it is possible that she was his sister whether or not they are the same people listed by Mackenzie as children of George Munro, III of Novar, or if John is the same person born in 1680. John and Ann are the only Munros listed as tenants on the Rosehaugh Estate in the 1720s.
As per the family tree below, Alexr Munro born in 1739 in Avoch would have named his eldest son John in 1767 after his own maternal grandfather John in Avoch who was still alive at least in 1747 when Alexr was eight years old.
George Munro, III of Novar's first wife with whom he had John and Ann was Isabel, daughter of Neil Munro, II of Findon which is on the Black Isle in the parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester and not that far from Avoch. According to the 1978 book The Munro Tree 1734, the author R.W Munro quotes the Novar Papers to suggest that George Munro, III of Novar died no later than 1701 and the Edinburgh Apprentice Register to suggest that he died no later than 1702.
Possible paternal ancestry of Munros of Armadale - third and final theory - version 1.pdfVersion 2: sister of John Munro and daughter of George Munro, III of Novar
Version 2: sister of John Munro and daughter of George Munro, III of Novar
The four children listed by Mackenzie born from George Munro, III of Novar's second marriage to Janet Murray were William, Donald, Helen and Janet. This Donald could be the same person who had many children baptised as recorded in the Avoch parish registers which included Anne, Donald, John, Helene, and Isobell which are reflective of the names in George Munro, III of Novar's family but a generation later. The Alexander Munro who also had many children baptised as recorded in the Avoch parish registers included Donald, Anne and Janet which are also reflective of the names in George Munro, III of Novar's family and a generation later.
The four children baptised as children of George Munro in Avoch are not reflective of Geroge Munro, III of Novar's family being Elizabeth, Christian, Ludovick and Alexr. However, in author R. W Munro's research notes in his 1978 book The Munro Tree 1734, he says that contrary to Mackenzie who says that George Munro, III of Novar's second wife was named Janet, that an Inverness Sasine and the Novar Pedigree which is held by the College of Heralds say that her name was Elizabeth. If as per the family tree below Ann Munro who was wife of George Munro in the parish of Avoch was the same Ann Munro listed by Mackenzie as daughter of George Munro, III of Novar, then this could be where their daughter's name Elizabeth came from in 1733. As per the family tree below, this would suggest that Ann named her daughter Elizabeth after her step mother. As per the family tree below, Donald Munro who was the second son from the second marriage of George Munro, III of Novar might have named his children Anne and John after his half sister and half brother respectively. Ann and John appear to be his only siblings living in the parish of Avoch with him.
Regarding the George Munro who is listed as the second son from the first marriage of George Munro, III of Novar on page 510 of Mackenzie's History of the Munros of Fowlis, he cannot be my paternal direct male line ancestor because my Y-chromosone DNA shows that I am not descended from any of the Munro of Foulis cadet branches through the direct male line but I also do not think he is the George Munro who married Ann Munro in the parish of Avoch in 1729. This is because firstly, I have possibly traced back to the Munro of Novar family through Ann Munro as either the daughter or sister of John listed on page 510 of Mackenzie's book and in those days, even though first generation cousins were allowed to marry and have children, brothers and sisters were not and uncles and nieces were not. Secondly, because the mother of these children from the first marriage of George Munro, III of Novar was Isabel, daughter of Neil Munro, II of Findon which is in the parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester and there was a George Munro who had a daughter named Isobel baptised in that parish in 1719. So he is more likely to have been the second eldest son listed on page 510 of Mackenzie's book and as explained in much detail above there is evidence that the George Munro in Avoch had come from the parish of Cromarty.
The Munro Tree 1734 book of 1978 shows that George Munro, second son from the first marriage of George Munro, III of Novar, married Isobel Dingwall which would name match the possible daughter in 1719 mentioned above. This information in the book of 1978 comes from the author's own research, quoting SRO Reg of Tailzies 2/47 and not from the manuscript family tree of 1734 itself. The Clan Munro USA genealogy database also estimates that most of the children from George Munro, III of Novar's first marriage were born later than those from his second marriage.
There are also five marriages recorded in the parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester, all in the year 1717, for William Munro, Donald Munro, Hellen Munro, George Munro, and John Munro, Donald Munro in 1718, Janet Munro in 1718 and 1719, Isobel Munro in 1719, and Ann Monro in 1736, which are all names that are reflective of the younger children from both marriages of George Munro, III of Novar. However, Ann's being over a decade and a half later from the others could be because she was not one of their siblings.
The only possible baptisms of children in the parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester from these marriages are children of William Munro in 1717, 1718 and 1726, Donald Munro in 1717 and 1719, John Munro in 1718, 1718 and 1726, George Munro in 1719, and several of John Mckenzie the husband of Hellen Munro from 1717-1726. There are no baptisms in Urquhart and Logie Wester that could be children from the above mentioned marriages of Isobel and Ann because none of the parents names match up with the marriage records.
Either of the John Munros who had a child each baptised in this parish in 1718 could have been the John Munro later found on the Rosehaugh Estate in 1721 and the John Munro who had a child baptised in 1726 may or may not be the same person. There were no children of a John Munro baptised in the parish of Avoch where he was recorded as a tenant on the Rosehaugh and Royston estates. John Munro is listed as a tenant in the Rosehaugh Estate rental records for each year from 1736 to 1740, but there are two separate Rosehaugh Estate records, in 1739 and 1740, that show that even though he was a tenant on the Rosehaugh Estate, which was in the parish of Avoch, Ross-shire, that he lived at a place called Blindwells. There are several small settlements in Scotland called Blindwells but none of them are in Ross-shire.
It is well documented that Hector Munro, eldest son from the first marriage of George Munro, III of Novar, inherited his father's estate of Novar which is in the parish of Alness, just the other side of the parish boundary with Kiltearn. However, coincidentally, there is a Hector Munro who had four children baptised in the parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester from 1717 to 1727. The mother of these children is only named on the third of these and she is a different person to Hector Munro, IV of Novar's wife who he married in 1701 but there is no marriage record for a Hector Munro in this parish in this period, even though the marriage register dates back to 1715 which was two years before the baptism of the first of the four children. The second of the four children born to this Hector who was also the eldest daughter was named Isobel, born in 1718, which like the daughter of George in 1719 mentioned above, apart from a spelling variation, the name matches the mother of Hector Munro, IV of Novar and his brother George. Again, this was in the parish of the mother of Hector Munro, IV of Novar, Isabel, daughter of Neil Munro, II of Findon, parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester. It is possible that Hector Munro, IV of Novar and his brother George had two wives each just like their father did even if they are not recorded by Mackenzie.
According to the Clan Munro Association USA's genealogy database, George Munro, III of Novar also had two sons from his first marriage named Robert and David who are not mentioned by Mackenzie but who are mentioned in the Munro Tree 1734 book which was published in 1978. According to this they both died abroad. However, in the 1978 book, this information is not attributed to the manuscript family tree of 1734 but to the author, R. W. Munro's own research notes which say that this information comes from the Novar Pedigree which is held by the College of Heralds. It is possible that this Robert Munro was the same Robert Munro who was tacksman in Avoch and that his brother David Munro was the same person who was from Eathie, parish of Rosemarkie and who married and had children in Navity, parish of Cromarty as mentioned above, although the database estimates their births as being much earlier. It would also mean that Robert Munro the tacksman in Avoch was not the same person born in 1703 in Navity, parish of Cromarty because that Robert was son of Donald.
According to R. W. Munro's genealogy database, William Munro who was the eldest son from the second marriage of George Munro, III of Novar, may have had five children baptised between 1741 and 1750 in the parish of Golspie, Sutherland, as per the parish register. This is based on the five children being born in the farmstead of Rhives as per the parish register and according to Mackenzie a believed descendant of William, also called William, was living in Rhives in 1798 and was witness to a document of General Hector Munro of Novar. The eldest son born in 1741 was also named George which would match the paternal grandfather's name and as mentioned above William's mother was either Janet or Elizabeth, daughter of Murray of Pulrossie which is in the county of Sutherland. Although men can reproduce throughout their lives, unlike women, given that George Munro, III of Novar had died by 1702, this would suggest that his son William was born late in his life, having had his own children from 1741 to 1750. This could also mean that his daughter Ann was born late in his life as well, leaving the baptism of Alexr Munro in 1739 in Avoch as possibly being the son of Ann who was the daughter of George Munro, III of Novar.
As Munro of Novar was a cadet of Munro of Foulis, this could explain why Alexander Munro of Armadale was described as being of the Munro of Foulis family in two 19th century books if he is the same person born in 1739. This would be in accordance with my Y-DNA showing that I am not descended from the Munros of Foulis through the direct male line because this would be through a female ancestor.
Possible paternal ancestry of Munros of Armadale - third and final theory - version 2.pdfPossible descent from the Munros of Foulis
Possible descent from the Munros of Foulis
The following family tree shows Alexander Munro of Armadale's possible descent from the Munros of Foulis through his mother Ann Munro. It is based on the following three points:
1) On Alexander Munro of Armadale being the same Alexr Munro baptised in 1739 in the parish of Avoch, son of George Munro.
2) That his father George Munro was the same man who married Ann Munro in the parish of Avoch in 1729.
3) That Ann is the same person listed on page 510 of Alexander Mackenzie's History of the Munros of Fowlis as daughter of George Munro, III of Novar
Alexander Munro of Armadale descent from Munro of Foulis.pdfPoints of note
Points of note
The paternal male line ancestry of Ann Munro is daughter of George Munro, III of Novar, son of Robert Munro, II of Novar, son of Andrew Munro, I of Novar, son of John Mor Munro, I of Pittonachy, son of George Munro, IV of Milntown, son of Andrew Beg Munro, III of Milntown, son of Andrew Mor Munro, II of Milntown, son of John Munro, I of Milntown, son of Hugh Munro of Foulis (d. 1425), chief of Clan Munro, son of Robert de Munro, chief of Clan Munro (d. 1369).
No less than three of these male line Munros married women who were distant paternal Munro cousins who also descended from either Hugh Munro of Foulis (d. 1425) or his son George Munro of Foulis (d. 1452), including Ann's mother Isabel Munro. One of Ann's great-grandmothers, on her mother's side, was also a Munro descended from George Munro of Foulis (d. 1452).
Munro of Poyntzfield, who Alexander Munro was the gardener to in 1768 in the parish of Resolis, was also paternally descended from this part of the Munro chief's family tree as shown above.
The wife of Robert Munro, II of Novar is given as Helen Munro on page 303 of Mackenzie's book and as Ellen Munro on page 509. She was the daughter of George Munro, II of Tarlogie and the two separate listings of her are in the chapters for the Munros of Tarlogie and Munros of Novar. Clearly this is just a spelling variation based on the pronounciation of the name. It is likely that George Munro, III of Novar's daughter from his second marriage, Helen Munro listed on page 510, was named after this Helen or Ellen Munro, his mother. This daughter of George Munro, III of Novar was the half sister of Ann Munro. It is therefore possible that Alexr Munro in turn named his daughter Elen Munro who was born in the parish of Resolis in 1767 after his maternal aunt Helen Munro.
There is one problem with this theory. As mentioned above, for Ann Munro the daughter of Novar to have been the mother of Alexr Munro in 1739, she would have to have been aged into her mid-40s when she conceived him. Likewise, her mother Isabel Munro would also have to have been aged into her mid-40s when Ann was conceived because her father Neil Munro, II of Findon had died by 1653. This is not impossible: as explained in part 1, Katherine Munro, wife of Donald Simpson, gave birth to her last child aged around 41 years and Betty Duncan, wife of John Munro, also gave birth to her last child aged 41 which is still only in their early 40s. However, as explained on page Possible origins of Barbara Mackay of Armadale, her sister Janet Mackay, wife of William Gordon, appears to have given birth to her last child when she was aged 47 which makes the connection to the Munros of Novar a possibility.
Wikipedia has an article about this subject which says that the record for the eldest woman to conceive naturally was aged 59 in 1997: Pregnancy over age 50 - Wikipedia
Neil Munro, II of Findon, Isabel's father, was also the second husband of Isabel's mother, Janet Mackenzie. According to Alexander Mackenzie's History of the Munros p. 545, Neil Munro, II of Findon and Janet Mackenzie only had three children which in that era suggests that they could have had them late in life before he had died by 1653, even though they married in 1627. According to Mackenzie's History of the Mackenzies p. 419, Janet Mackenzie's first marriage was in 1611 to George Cuthbert of Castlehill, Inverness. According to the academic paper Age at Marriage of Scottish Women, circa 1660-1770 by R. A. Houston, females were legally able to marry at the age of 12 in Scotland at this time. As mentioned above if Ann was aged no more than 49 when Alexr Munro was conceived/born in April 1739 and she was born no earlier than 1690, and her mother Isabel Munro was born no more than 49 years earlier again then this would come back to 1641, leaving 12 years before Isabel's father's death in 1653 in which time she could have been born. If Isabel's mother Janet Mackenzie was born no more than 49 years before 1641, that comes back to 1592 which would make her about 19 at the time of her first marriage in 1611, leaving seven years up to 1599 in which she could have been born in to reach the legal marriage age of 12 in 1611. There is definitely some give and take in the years when taking into consideration all of the siblings born from each marriage but the time frame is possible.
As Alexr Munro was baptised on April 7, 1739, he would have been conceived in 1738. So one year can be minus off the calculation. Some would say 49 years for the maximum age of each mother is too high as well. If we take that down to 47 years, off 1738 comes to 1691 for the birth of Ann, minus another 47, comes to 1644 for Isabel, and minus another 47 comes to 1597 for Janet. Not that each of the three mothers would have been the same age at the birth of their children but there are enough years for Janet to have been old enough for her first marriage in 1611 and for Isabel to have been born before her father Neil Munro, II of Findon died in 1653.
Update: apart from Alexander Mackenzie's books of 1894 and 1898, there does not seem to be any reference to Janet Mackenzie of the Mackenzie of Gairloch family having married George Cuthbert of Castlehill, Inverness in 1611. In fact, all the references I can find show that it was Janet Mackenzie or Mckenzie who was daughter of Kenneth Mackenzie of Kintail who married William Johnson Cuthbert of Castlehill around this time. If Alexander Mackenzie is incorrect on this and Janet Mackenzie of the Gairloch family did not marry into the Cuthbert family in 1611 as her first marriage, then the above problem of the three generations of mothers being too old to have reproduced is removed. See website with well researched genealogy of the Cuthberts of Castlehill.
Longevity in the 18th and 19th centuries
Longevity in the 18th and 19th centuries
As my theory on these pages suggests that Alexander Munro of Armadale who died in 1834/1835 may have been the Sergeant Alexander Munro of the 76th and 42nd regiments, born in 1739, and therefore lived to at least 95. The following is taken from the 1841 UK census, noting that it was usual practice for census enumerators to round down to the nearest multiple of 5 in 1841, although not all of them did this:
Number of people aged exactly 100 years: 252 (90 men and 163 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 99 years: 109 (46 men and 65 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 98 years: 169 (65 men and 104 women).
Number of people aged exactly 97 years: 147 (56 men and 94 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 96 years: 223 (94 men and 130 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 95 years: 1,341 (510 men and 851 women*). (note many of these people probably had their age rounded down to nearest multiple of 5).
Number of people aged exactly 94 years: 276 (112 men and 167 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 93 years: 387 (159 men and 232 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 92 years: 519 (206 men and 320 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 91 years: 523 (237 men and 291 women*).
Number of people aged exactly 90 years: 6,671 (2,668 men and 4,066 women*) (note many of these people probably had their age rounded down to nearest multiple of 5).
* Note the above figures were taken from searching Ancestry.co.uk and the total number of people given in the search results when searching for both men and women together does not match up with the numbers given for men and women combined when searching separately.
See also link to article about extreme longevity in the 1700's with nine male examples.
The Clan Munro Annual No. 2 of 1947 records a John Munro of Glenary, Argyll who died aged 99 in 1826 which is an example of male longevity in the Scottish Highlands from the early 18th to early 19th century.
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