Nadav Avital and Buffie Marie Longmire Avital

INTERVIEW

Buffie Marie Longmire Avital, Post-doctoral Fellow, 28

Hometown: Cambridge, MA

Nadav Avital, 5th Grade Teacher, 30

Hometown: Tel Aviv metropolitan area, Israel

Residence at time of interview: Kensington, Brooklyn, NY

Date of interview: June/July 2008

Current residence: Greensboro, NC

BUFFIE: We met online at match.com in Nov 2006. I noticed that Nadav had viewed my profile, and I sent him a little note.

NADAV: After three or four phone conversations we met for dinner. It wasn’t love at first sight; I wasn’t sure there would be a second date. Buffie suggested we go to the Tea Lounge for dessert, and there I opened up more.

BUFFIE: I was definitely more the aggressor. I felt very comfortable with him. On the fifth date I met his family.

NADAV: It became apparent that we were serious after a short time. We revoked our match.com memberships after three weeks.

BUFFIE: It was easy going with no drama. After a month of becoming very close we were at his mom’s on Hanukah, and I wanted to make it clear that I understood that his being Jewish was important to him and something I would have to consider, an option I was willing to take.

NADAV: We were on the same wavelength from the beginning; we both were quite serious about being serious. It was special and we were optimistic about where it was going.

BUFFIE: The first six months were a wonderful whirlwind. I was open with Nadav in a way I hadn’t been with other people. Nadav went to my mom’s house for Easter; since I was considering converting to Judaism I wanted him to see how I grew up and where I was coming from. Nadav promised he would propose before we returned to my parents for Thanksgiving, and he proposed in June 2007.

NADAV: After the first three months we saw each other four days a week, and then almost constantly. I knew already by March that I wanted to marry Buffie, and I proposed in June. We started shopping for a wedding venue, apartment hunting, and finding a rabbi. In July we moved in together.

BUFFIE: We visited a few synagogues, and then on-line we found the Conservative movement’s Center for Conversion. We were engaged already by the time we met with the rabbi. Nadav’s uncle visited and gave his approval, which was the final hurdle.

NADAV: He was a father figure to me. I lived with him for a time and wanted his feedback.

BUFFIE: The first couple of months that we lived together were a shock: I was coming home to a new apartment and to Nadav, we were going to conversion classes, and I was finishing my dissertation. I knew my family would accept the engagement and conversion better if I finished my dissertation. We were merging our living patterns and finding consensus.

NADAV: I have a car, and Buffy doesn’t drive, so I would drive to the laundromat, start the laundry, and she would meet me there.

BUFFIE: Our sofa was our first purchase together.

NADAV: That was a joint decision.

BUFFIE: I shop with my feelings and impressions, while Nadav researches thoroughly, which is good, because we don’t get ripped off.

Our wedding was wonderful—more than I could have envisioned. Other people’s input was stressful when we were planning it. The ceremony infused both our backgrounds. Although I decided to become Jewish I wanted to make sure that my African-American heritage was also reflected. The ceremony started with an exchange of gifts, which is a custom from Sierra Leone. My cousin gave his cousin a challah cover and his cousin gave my cousin a kente cloth. Two other cousins from each side lit a havdalah candle together; there is an African Christian custom of combining fire.

NADAV: My grandfather, who is a conservative rabbi, married us. He initially wanted to limit the inclusion of other traditions and keep them on the periphery. After havdalah we had a traditional Jewish ceremony, and after I stomped on the glass we jumped over a broom, which is a traditional African-Amercian wedding custom.

I knew the words of the vow by heart, and after I said them my grandfather asked me to translate them to English extemporaneously. The words are symbolic—it’s a public declaration that we are unique and special to each other; I tend to downplay the religious aspect. I think of our marriage as not only Jewish but also holistic.

BUFFIE: We had a double ring ceremony, and I said the line from Ruth, “Wherever you will go I shall go.”

I’m such a romantic—I really do believe Nadav is my Beshert. There are certain people who come into your life with whom you can share an amazing energy. In previous relationships I played a passive role, but with Nadav I had this weird sense of confidence that I previously didn’t have.

NADAV: I don’t believe in the concept of Beshert, but I do feel fortunate to have found Buffie. I feel that all my life events have led to our finding each other.

BUFFIE: I needed to go through certain things before meeting Nadav, such as finishing grad school. By the time we met I was really comfortable with who I am. I had a baseline of comfort in who I am that enabled me to undergo the conversion process as quickly as I did. I don’t think Nadav would want me if I were a chameleon. He often says, “Don’t ditto me, do it when you’re ready.”

NADAV: Everything fell into place perfectly. That we were both on a dating site meant we were both looking and ready. I’m perfectly content with where I’m at right now.

BUFFIE: My mom never married my dad, and I’ve never met him. I had a conversation with him once and that was it. I had no conception of what a husband or even boyfriend’s role is other than what I saw on television. My mom told me to be true to myself, and I feel I am with Nadav, who is my biggest booster and cheerleader. My mom was married once before she met my father, and she said she felt alone in that marriage. I never feel alone with Nadav.

NADAV: My parents had an awful, abusive marriage. My father had professional issues that he never resolved and could not focus on the marriage. They divorced when I was 10. That was the antithesis of what a marriage should be. My uncle and aunt’s marriage is more of a model to emulate.

I grew up in a secular Israeli environment, though my family did light Shabbat candles. I went to Camp Ramah in Pennsylvania, and was exposed to Conservative Judaism there and at a Solomon Schecter school in the middle school grades. I attended Yeshiva of Flatbush for one year of high school before returning to Israel. I enjoyed the communal aspect of summer camp, but I struggled then and to this day with the concept of a deity. I view religious practice as more of a communal endeavor than a self-searching.

BUFFIE: I grew up in Cambridge, MA where I went to grade school and then private boarding school for high school. I was raised black Baptist; my mom was a Sunday school teacher, and I went to Sunday school and youth group. One of my closest college friends is Jewish and my first real introduction to Judaism was through her, such as Rosh Hashana dinner with her family and her Winnie the Pooh menorah. Heather’s family was inclusive and we treated each other as siblings.

NADAV: My education instilled in me an appreciation of the tradition. I’m well versed in halacha and holiday traditions. Yeshiva of Flatbush turned me off Judaism for a while. I wasn’t used to the daily individual style of prayer (in contrast to the Conservative movement’s communal style), and I didn’t see myself in my classmates and teachers.

BUFFIE: Growing up in Cambridge I was usually the only black kid in class. At church everyone was black. Sermons linked every day struggles with scripture. Having a relationship with God can be healing and gives me strength. It’s a communal experience, and helped me develop my black identity. When I was converting I realized how much my black identity is tied to religion. It taught me compassion. A turning point was when a youth pastor spoke of the LGBT community with disdain. I was disturbed by the lack of compassion and inclusiveness for them. At that point I took a break, and moved towards more inclusive Methodist churches. I found that inclusiveness again at Park Slope Jewish Center.

NADAV: In Israel I was secular and had disdain for religious people. When I returned to the states for college and grad school I looked for groups with which I could connect Jewishly. I became a counselor at Camp Ramah, which felt right. With Buffie we’re observing some level of kashrut, light Shabbat candles, go to services, and we’re finding a common comfort zone. Buffie is more in tune than I am with spirituality and observance.

BUFFIE: When we started the conversion process I didn’t understand how as an agnostic Nadav could ask me to convert. I didn’t get the cultural aspect. Having grown up as a practicing Baptist I wanted to practice Jewish observance. My friend Heather’s kashrut also made a positive impression. When I go out to lunch with co-workers and ask about ingredients it annoys them but gives me a rush of pride.

We both agree that we want to send our kids to a Jewish day school and raise them bilingual. Our children will be bi-cultural and bi-racial. The role of the family in Judaism works well for me. If our kids get that strength of identity at home it will give them a shield when people do a double take upon learning they are both black and Jewish. When we discuss names we try to find ones that work in both traditions.

NADAV: We’ve had more discussions than many couples on childrearing practices, and we’re in agreement. We want them to participate in multi-cultural activities in addition to day school and summer camp.

BUFFIE: I also want them to join Jack and Jill. They should be able to go back and forth between the two communities with ease.

NADAV: Being Jewish is a sense of belonging and being different. I’m on this team, I’m wearing these colors, and I’m sometimes on the same wavelength when I’m with other Jews.

BUFFIE: I’m still trying to figure out what being Jewish means to me. During Pesach, when I was bringing my food to work, I realized that there was no going back, regardless of what happens with Nadav. I’m still developing my identity as an African -American Jew. Nadav’s vast knowledge helps, and my relationship with God fits more in a Jewish lens than a Christian one. He’s helping me with the knowledge part, and he’s working on his spiritual side. Having grown up in a black church spiritual things come easily to me. I also feel that my Jewishness will grow the more I learn Hebrew.

NADAV: As a couple it means observance, attending shul, and socializing with other Jewish couples.

BUFFIE: It’s also the artwork on our walls and the way we decorate our home.

Because I converted my sense of Jewishness is very much in the foreground. Observing kashrut keeps it in the foreground, as does listing “Conservative Jewish” on Facebook.

NADAV: I don’t live it all the time. For me it’s more in the background.

Buffy knew early on that I would only consider marrying someone Jewish. There are Jewish elements of social justice that informed my choice of profession.

BUFFIE: My career was chosen before I converted. Now that I have converted I think we would have been in conflict had we not decided to be observant. We have places that we are thinking of moving to, and we look to see what the Conservative congregations are like. We want to make sure that the community will accept us as a diverse couple and family.

We both share a commitment to social action, but Nadav is more on the frontline. He’s more likely to go to demonstrations, and I’m more focused on policy. We both support Barack Obama, but Nadav has the bumper stickers and buttons.

He’s more adventurous than I am. We both enjoy Thai food, but he will try the new spicy dish whereas I will go for my old favorites.

NADAV: We have similar tastes in music.

BUFFIE: Nadav knows more about music than I do. He loves his guitar and classic rock, but he also knows R&B and pop music. His students wanted to learn a Beyonce Knowles song, and he taught himself to play the song on guitar.

NADAV: Buffy tries to appease my tastes, but we’re really very similar. I like sports more than she does; we just got two TVs. Our biggest difference was her preference for ABC Thursday night programs while I wanted to watch NBC’s lineup.

I think we would be friends even if we had not become a couple.

BUFFIE: I think at first we would have been friends, but in time we would have become distant.

NADAV: If we were to ever divorce I doubt we would remain friends.

BUFFIE: In that circumstance probably not, unless there were kids and we had to continue cooperating.

I have huge issues with infidelity; that would be a hard one to get over. I’m secure enough now so that I’m not threatened when Nadav finds other women attractive. You may be tempted but you don’t act on it.

NADAV: We haven’t discussed a policy. It is one of my insecurities, and I project those onto Buffie. I have this fear that she will meet a faculty colleague whom she will find irresistible. Two months into our relationship a former girl friend asked to see me, and I did meet with her only to find that I no longer found her attractive. Two weeks into our marriage we’re doing OK.

BUFFIE: I felt more threatened by women who were born Jewish, and Nadav felt threatened in the same way by black men.

There were lots of hills and valleys in my income when I was a grad school. In the past year I had been working full-time and things were equal, but now that I’ve taken on this fellowship it’s like I’m back in grad school, and Nadav is the breadwinner. It was a question I asked him early on. Nadav prefers work he finds fulfilling than a big paycheck, and I feel the same.

NADAV: We’re managing financially OK now. I think we share housework.

BUFFIE: In the past year Nadav has taken on more, and now we’re equal. Nadav is in charge of the kitchen, does laundry, and fixes things. I make the bed, clean the bathroom, and pick up things. I hate doing dishes, so I’m happy to let him do that.

Now that we’re married I feel a lot of the outside pressure is off us. In the past year people questioned every decision we made.

NADAV: I get a little kick out of saying “my wife,” but otherwise it’s the same as our previous cohabitation.

BUFFIE: When I was doing my dissertation the stress had an impact on our relationship. Now it feels like we’re back to where we were when we first dated. Having grown up Baptist I felt a little guilty about our pre-marital sex, and now that we’re married there’s no guilt.

Here in NYC I have more friends than NADAV; he has many more in Israel. I certainly feel included in social events with his colleagues. We’ve met people at shul and at the conversion class, and our circle of friends is expanding in that way.

NADAV: We each keep our own circles. Buffie has a friend she sees once a week. We’re starting to make friends with other couples.

BUFFIE: I think there is a distinction between spirituality and religion. During my conversion classes I felt I was learning more about the religion and the spiritual component was missing. Now they are starting to meet up.

NADAV: Religion is communal. The times I feel spiritual are few and far between.

BUFFIE: I feel there is a spiritual dimension to our marriage. It’s what gave me the courage to do all the things I’ve done in the last year—converting and getting married. There’s a leap of faith. Our compatibility is on a level that we haven’t even tapped into yet, but that I know is there and which I saw in him from the start.

NADAV: Even under the chuppah I was so focused on you that I barely noticed anything else going on. What we create together has an element of magic and at the same time is very ordinary and concrete.

BUFFIE: For me our relationship is enhanced by my relationship with God, though I don’t feel that extends to the Jewish people as a whole.

NADAV: My devotion to Buffie and my devotion to the Jewish people work on completely different levels of intimacy. The only thing I would relate it to is my continued membership in the army reserve in Israel, and if called I would go back and serve.

BUFFIE: I hope our future kids are healthy, safe, sane and not fractured, and able to own every part of who they are. I’m envious that they will grow up celebrating all the Jewish holidays and go to summer camp. I also want them to have a connection to my family, to both our cultures and peoples.

NADAV: I hope they are healthy and do have a Jewish foundation: that they have an ethical foundation with a Jewish tint on life, a good moral compass, are self reliant, have good friends, and are good friends to one another.

BUFFIE: When I was trying to see if I could fit in as a Jew the media depiction of being Jewish as fair skinned and Ashkenazi gave me pause. I’m now aware that there is diversity among Jewish people, and I hope an awareness of that spreads.

I think religiosity is learned rather than innate. Having been around his family I have this sneaking suspicion that Nadav has a greater capacity for it than he realizes. He’s very knowledgeable. It would not surprise me if some day Nadav decides to become a rabbi or if one of our future kids decided that.

NADAV: Through study and talking to our rabbi and other couples I have a greater awareness of Jewishness and godliness.

BUFFIE: I’ve developed a religious self that has grown to match my spiritual self. Usually Nadav finishes davening the Amida before I do, but one Shabbat I finished first and looked over to him and saw that he was really in the moment.

We keep kosher. I donated all my old dishes to the Salvation Army. It’s a nice feeling. I’m still growing in my religious practice. I light candles every Friday night.

NADAV: I don’t always do Kiddush on Friday night, partly because there are just us two, and I feel like I’m performing, but I’m OK with where we are.

BUFFIE: We have to go at our own pace and tell other people to butt out.

I’m very close to my mom. I talk to her once a day. She sees something beautiful in Nadav and my relationship with him and has been wonderfully supportive of my decisions. I was afraid my older sister would be upset that I went down the aisle first. She also didn’t understand how I could decide to convert so quickly—her family memories were of holidays, but now that she’s met Nadav she understands and is supportive. She planned my bridal shower and at first set it on a Shabbat, but that was resolved. Nadav’s family is an easy family to fall in love with, and they have been supportive. I get along great with his brothers. I had to learn that when you tell one family member something it will be repeated to everyone else. I felt I had to establish boundaries. At the wedding it was nice to see both our families come together.

NADAV: I have my own issues with my family. The wedding and being with Buffie has put me in a better light in my family. My mom is in love with and admires Buffie, and the fact that Buffie loves and admires me reflects well on me. Buffie’s mom has been a great support and sounding board for us.

BUFFIE: All my relatives had a hand in raising me—the proverbial village raising the child—and it was hard on them when I made all these changes in a distant city.

I think Nadav and I have something that just works. I can’t hold a grudge with him.

NADAV: I think our marriage is fundamentally fantastic. We’re committed to each other, we’re good friends and look forward to coming home to each other. We communicate well.

BUFFIE: I’m a more passive aggressive person, and he is one of the few people I feel comfortable enough with to allow myself to get angry and express it at that moment.

NADAV: The marriage is not predicated on Jewishness but on Buffie being Jewish. We both enjoy attending synagogue together and look forward to it. We are having our Ketuba framed and look forward to hanging it on our wall.

BUFFIE: Had Judaism not fit with me we would not be a married couple. Who could have known that it would indeed fit? That it does fit makes our Jewishness a relevant spiritual element to our marriage. It fits and here we are. Nadav led me to the religious side of my spirituality, and I bring out the spiritual side of his religiousness.