27/01/2021
Hello everyone!
My name is Maeva and just like you all, I am in my last semester in order to graduate as an ALC Languages student. I am passionate about myths, fairy tales and fiction. I do not have much to say about myself now but I might circle back later on.
EDIT 10/03/2021
Here's more about me: I am 18 years old, I come from Trois-Rivières. I have always been in a francophone environment before I move to Montreal. I am the oldest of all my siblings, I have 4 sisters and 2 brothers, from different reconstitution of my family nucleus. For university, I do not know yet where I want to go but I applied in a double major in Classical studies and English literature at McGill, Concordia and University of Ottawa. However, after my bachelor's degree I would like to go into teaching.
Now, here are some of my IA project ideas:
1. Research the rejuvenation of fairy tales and myths in mainstream culture. I would look at books such as the Percy Jackson series, Stormrunner, Wildefire and movies by Disney (the classics and newer editions like Descendants). I would observe the language used, the morals by usage of CDA (Critical Discourse Analysis)
2. The differences in the translated versions of Disney movies in comparison to the original. Since I prefer the VO and my siblings the FR version, I am often surprised by the differences of the message (Let It Go in Frozen, Into the Unknown in Frozen 2, etc.)
02/02/2021
Let us cut to the chase; here are some sources that could potentially help my projects. I added a permalink to the sources to trace them more easily.
Beta Setiawati. “Americanization of Non-American Storiesin Disney Films.” Register Journal, vol. 1, no. 1, June 2016. EBSCOhost, doi:10.18326/rgt.v1i1.417.
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER-REVIEWED. Useful to project idea #1. In this text, the author addresses the alteration of tales with different origins to fit the American Disney mindset (Americanization). This could be useful to build parallels with the original stories and the way children know them nowadays, how they were taken back to the mainstream culture. It could also be used as a counter-example of modernization in opposition to the other books. Further reading required.
INTERNET ARCHIVES. PEER-REVIEWED. Useful to project idea #1. This is a collection of texts concerning the issues with the Disney movies. It was written by a specialist most renowned in the field. It addresses plenty of issues like the Americanization, the androcentric view and the sterilization of the culture. Really good source for CDA. I already used this text in a project and I think it would also be good to look at other sources.
Pischedda Pier Simone. “Anglophonic Influence in the Use of Sound Symbolism in Italian Disney Comics: A Corpus-Based Analysis.” Open Linguistics, vol. 3, no. 1, Dec. 2017, pp. 591–612. EBSCOhost, doi:10.1515/opli-2017-0030.
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER-REVIEWED. This is an article about the translation issues with Romance languages in Disney movies. It is useful to me for the project idea #2. As I speak French, English, Spanish, a bit German and a tiny bit of Italian, I think I would be able to relate to it during my analysis and anglicization seems like an interesting phenomenon. Further reading required.
Bilge METİN TEKİN, and Korkut Uluç IŞISAĞ. “Comparative Analysis of Translation Strategies in the Translation of Songs in Walt Disney’s Animated Musical Movies, Namely ‘Hercules’ (1997) and ‘Frozen’ (2013) into Turkish.” International Journal of Languages’ Education and Teaching, vol. 5, no. 1, Apr. 2017, pp. 132–148. EBSCOhost, doi:10.18298/ijlet.1662.
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER-REVIEWED. Here is another source that fills out my project idea #2. It relates the different translation practices used in both Frozen and Hercules. It explains the different strategies and takes examples from 2 songs out of each movie. Not only does it provides material to enrich my study, but it also explains the different theories of translation so I could proceed with my own. Further reading required.
09/02/2021
Hi, today I would like to elaborate on my project for the semester. I have decided to settle for the second idea because even if I was more interested in the first, it is more in line with my studies. Indeed, the CDA analysis of texts falls under literature rather than under languages. Yet, it is with great interest I will do my IA. Below is the tentative schedule for its realization. The lines in bold are taken almost verbatim from the course outline. The others are goal I set myself to be able to reach those in bold. I know they might be early but I prefer to set myself limits in advance so that if I am late with those I can still submit the project in time.
21/02/2021: At least 8 sources read, evaluated and cited
24/02/2021: First draft thesis and topic sentences due
03/03/2021: Preliminary thesis statement and topic sentences due
03/03/2021: First draft outline due
10/03/2021: Outline due (10%)
14/03/2021: Finish citing all sources and presenting them in a clear "works cited" page. Min. 5 scholarly articles and min. 12 sources.
15-19/03/2021: Spring break
24/03/2021: Midterm evaluation of blog (10%) and bibliography (10%)
14/04/2021: First draft research paper due
21/04/2021: Second draft research paper due
24/04/2021: Submit research paper
28/04/2021: Research paper due (15%)
28/04/2021: Prepare class presentation
05/05/2021: Class presentations
12/05/2021 Final evaluation of blog (10%) and self-assessment/ favourite project due (5%)
The picture in the heading is a scenery of l'Île-aux-Basques. I took it during a trip there with my family in 2018. I chose it because I think there is something ferric to it, as if you could meet Little Red Riding Hood at a crossroad or find Hänsel and Gretel.
02/03/2021
Hello ladies, gentlemen, and those who do not identify as such.
I have not posted lately because I was overwhelmed with university applications and other things in my personal life. Now we move on and here is my progress:
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER REVIEWED. It was really interesting but I did not find anything about translation theory. The article was more about the instruments, the rhythm, well everything but the lyrics. However, the author named many examples, might be useful to quote in the final essay and/or look into to compare with Disney.
Saule, Burbekova, and Nurzhanova Aisulu. “Problems of Translation Theory and Practice: Original and Translated Text Equivalence.” Procedia - Social and Behavioral Sciences, vol. 136, July 2014, pp. 119–123. EBSCOhost, doi:10.1016/j.sbspro.2014.05.300.
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER-REVIEWED. The text was dense but concise. It addressed the different challenges in translation (close to the original, socio-cultural context, convey meaning, etc.) with examples to strengthen its position. As it is a study done by professionals, it needs a bit of concentration to read but it is possible to understand.
I have found other sources but I am not yet done with reading them.
Last but not least, I have chosen and started my analysis of 2 Disney songs. The first one is Into the Unknown, originally interpreted by Idina Menzel and AURORA in Frozen II. I have a copy of the lyrics in French and in English. The second is I'll Make a Man Out of You in Mulan, originally interpreted by Donny Osmond. This one is interesting because I have a copy of the original lyrics, the French translation AND the French Canadian translation. I have chosen these two songs because they are the only that caught my eye and my ear with the differences in the alternative versions. Unfortunately I do not have a post prepared with my observations yet because I am still forming them old-school style, with paper and a pen.
03/03/2021
Preliminairy thesis statement and topic sentences
TS: The songs in a Disney musical are extremely complex to translate because of the different translation theories, the cultural and linguistic peculiarities and because of their rigid format.
T1: Some argue that a translated text should be as close to the original as possible, whilst some others prefer to convey meaning and ideas.
T2: The way a piece is received can change depending on the morals and the language of the translator and the public.
T3: In a rigid format such as a song, there are many concessions a translator must do in order to have a final product.
10/03/2021
I thought it would be interesting to show this compilation I found on Youtube. It is only one out of dozens but there are some interesting factors that caught my attention when I watched it:
Overgeneralization
All songs of movies set in Western Europe were in French and all those in Middle Europe were in German. However, there are many other languages than those two that could match the movie.
Native Language
The video is headlined as the characters singing in their native language. Yet, Disney is the one that produces them, in America, in English. The versions presented there are just another translation from the VO.
Time Period
I know it is not relevant to my project but I thought it was interesting to see where Disney set their movies. Per example, the official year for Frozen 1863 according to the actors (it is in another video but I think it's interesting)
06/04/2021
Hello dear people of IA
Last weekend I watched the marvelous Disney movie Moana. I already watched it before but after I found out one of my favourite actors, (Lin-Manuel Miranda) is in the movie and wrote the music. Therefore, I took a closer look at the music during the movie. I was really interested in the presence of Polynesian in the songs because my name comes from that language. It means “welcome”. Also, I know that Lin does not speak it so I was curious how he managed to write the songs. He is fluent in English and Spanish as he is Puerto Rican but that is another story.
I did a research – unrelated to my project but very interesting- about the Polynesian languages because I wanted to know more about the origin of my name. Turns out it is a language family located mostly in the Pacific Ocean, around New Zealand and Haiti. It is connected to many cultures, one of the most famous being the Maoris of New Zealand. I might write another post that has a more extensive research but I will try to stick to my project being the translation of Disney movies.
Source of the picture: Disney +, accessed on April 4th 2021
14/04/2021
Hiya everyone, here is the first post on my analysis of translations in Disney songs. This one is exclusively on the Frozen 2 hit Into the Unknown (Dans un autre monde). I will also upload the scan of my notes for those interested to see my whole process. Last but not least, I am joining the link to the Panic! At the Disco version of the song. According to my humble opinion, it is awesome.
14/04/2021
For a better understanding of my analysis, I would recommend to listen both the VO and the VF (the link is embedded). The song is about Elsa, the ice queen of Arendelle who is the only one to hear a voice. She is intrigued and tries to fight back the temptation but finally gives in as it calls to her powers.
First, I want to compare the titles of the song. In the VO, it goes “Into the Unknown”. On the other hand, in the VF it is “Dans un autre monde”. However, the catch here that aggravates me is that in the VF it says “Je ne veux plus partir ni m’élancer vers l’inconnu”, which translates to I do not want to leave or go into the unknown. It is in explicit opposition with the original version. I will the colour of the police so that it matches with my notes.
In the first verse (VO), Elsa addresses the voice directly by using the second person singular, but does not personify it until the last verse. The VF is in the passive tense and personifies the voice since the first verse, then de-personifies it and then goes back to consider it as a person.
In the VF she sings “j’aurais mille raisons de vivre comme il me plait/ d’ignorer tes murmures, faire comme si de rien n’était ». Yet, the VO goes «There’s a thousand reasons I should go about my day/ and ignore your whispers which i wish would go away ». The translated version conveys the message that the only thing keeping her from doing what she wants is the voice. In the original, she acknowledges her duties but wishes to do them in peace.
In the second verse, in the VO, Elsa compares the sounds she ears as a “ringing in [her] ear”. It is not a voice, just an inconvenience. Also, she does not listen to it, she doesn’t not even acknowledges she hears it. Yet, in the VF, she sings “Tu n’es personne/ Tu n’es qu’un son, une mélodie/ Si je t’écoutais, mais c’est non”. There is a sound, something sketchy going on but it is just not a person. That she is the only one to hear. And she does not listen to it, but she clearly hears it.
In the first bridge (VO), she goes “I’ve had my adventure, I don’t need something new/ I’m afraid of what I’m risking if I follow you”. The adventure she talks about is the trials she went through during the first movie. She has a better understanding of who she is but she does not know if she is ready to put it all away for this. Until then, the voice is more of an impulse inside of her then an exterior force. Yet, she does not push the idea away; she entertains it but takes no action.
In the first bridge (VF), she sings “J’ai tenté l’aventure et je me suis perdue/ Je ne veux plus partir ni m’élancer vers l’inconnu ». Like I mentioned when I compared the titles, this goes against the song and the previous movie. She refutes every possibility to go on another adventure. No way. She also says she lost herself during the first movie, but she does not mention all she found like BEING ABLE TO CONTROL HER POWERS.
It is in the third verse (VO) that she finally acknowledges the voice as an exterior influence which whom she can interact. It can be troublesome and potentially dangerous but she keeps her blood cold (pun intented). Again in the third verse (VF), the effects of the voice are mentioned but addressed passively “Que veut cette voix/ Celle qui me tient éveillée”. However, she sees the situation as an escape, a different option. Yet, she says she is done with adventure and just wants to stay home with her family? I think this is confusing with the previous lyrics.
We are now in the fourth verse (VO) where the voice finally becomes an exterior entity, potentially a person. Maybe even someone “who’s a little bit like [her]”. She mentions she does not feel like she belongs; there is “a part of [her] that longs to go”. Again, in opposition to the VF when she says she does not want to leave at all. Another conflict between the two is when Elsa talks of someone “qui [lui] ressemble en tous points”. There is no exact copy of her out there, everyone is unique.
One point I think is interesting is when she mentions that the voice might know where she is from. It differs from the VO but it works with plot so I think it is the change that bothers me the least. But, in the next sentence she talks of glory? Elsa does not want glory. It is not AT ALL a theme in the movies (except with the villains in the first).
Don’t worry I’m almost done!
In the chorus (VF), she talks of an “autre monde”, another world. Is it because all is discovered here and we need to go to another world to have something unknown? During the VO song, there is no mention of such a multiverse. There are curiosities here with us in our realm.
The last verse (VO) is an inquiry whether the voice is real and if how to join them. Yet in the VF she acts first like a mythbuster trying to prove the voice does not exist and then practically begs it to take her with.
Overall I think there are multiple discrepancies in the texts but I am not sure if I could do a better job with all the narrative, stylistic and contextual restrictions.
15/04/2021
Wilkommen! Here we are, close to the end of the project.
So far, I concentrated my research on peer-reviewed sources. I have found a few articles but I need more in order to have a strong essay. I think the “Problems of Translation: Theory and Practice” was an especially good example as it put words on thoughts I had before and explained the mechanisms to me. I am quite satisfied with the analysis of the primary source I did for Into the Unknown. It is a bit long but I think it will be a good base for my arguments.
I will not lie; my work here has been suboptimal. I have found and studied a few sources but I have not interacted enough with the blog. My outline was a catastrophe. I put other homework first and it shows. The aesthetic is not to my taste, the number of sources is below the requirements. I need to prioritize and put some extra hours on it to get to the same level as the others in the class.
04/05/2021
Here I go again with my cross-analysis of professional translations. This time, it is the song “I’ll Make a Man Out of You” in Mulan (1998). However, this time there are two different versions in French, so enjoy the headache of following which is which, I did my best so that it is easy: the French-Canadian will be (QC), the French (FR) and the original (VO). It is colour-coded, feel free to follow in parallel with my manuscript notes!
The newly-made general Shang sings the first verse. The rhyme scheme goes ABAB, yet only the second and the fourth lines fit. There is an explicit duality between sons and daughters as Shang asks “Did they send me daughters/ When I asked for sons?” (VO). In the other versions, it goes more and more implicit. The French goes “M’ont-il donné leurs fils/ Je n’en vois pas un” whose textual translation is “Did they give me their sons, I can’t see one”(FR). The rhymes follow the ABAB scheme but is actually complete as the four lines are in pairs. The last version (QC) has no mention whatsoever of sons nor daughters: “Je ne veux pas d’écolières/ Pour defender nos terres”. The rhymes go ABBB, which means that the 3 last lines match but that the first one is randomly floating without any association.
The second verse starts with Shang insulting again his troops: “You’re the saddest bunch I ever met”. He insults them as a group but the rest of the paragraph is a message of hope as he claims that he will “make a man out of [them]” (VO). The rhyming goes AABB. In the FR, he insults them as being weaker than “fillettes” – little girls- but if they follow him he will make real men out of them. The rhyming goes ABBB, but the first line fits with the third verse’s first so it is not so bad. The real problem is in the QC version. While the others have a 9-8-9 syllables verse, this one has a 10-8-9, with the last one having a few syllables contracted so that it fits. Also, in this version, Shang insults their looks : “Vous êtes les plus moches de toutes mes recrues” which means « You’re the ugliest of all my trainees”. Being weak affects your ability as a soldier. Being ugly does not.
The lessons on how to be a good soldier start in the third verse. Shang starts with nature analogies in a pseudo ABAB scheme (like in the first verse, it actually fits quite well with it). He then says : “Once you find your center/ You are sure to win” (VO). It is almost textually translated in the (FR) as : “En trouvant l’équilibre/ Vous serez vainqueurs”. I think this is a great piece of translation right here as it conveys the same meaning, the rhyming scheme is complete ABAB and it is almost a copy of the VO, there is very few let to interpretation. It is very clear, it sounds good, great job. On the other hand, the QC version has some improvements possible. The nature analogies are weak, too long and there is no mention of balance at all, which is a recurring theme in the movie and the sequel. The rhymes go ABBA, which is a great music group but does not fit the original.
The bridge, even though it is placed at a random place in the structure of the song is the next part. Shang is getting tired as the recruits do not seem to learn anything. Yet, he keeps pushing them and claims that he will “somehow, […] make a man out of [them]” (VO). He does not know how, but he will manage. In the (FR), he says that “envers et contre tout”, he will do it. Against all odds, he will do it. There is a part that upsets me in both translated versions. Instead of focusing on making soldiers, they focus on making “real men”. The insults are saying they are girls, unmasculine and weak. I think it is a very strong example of gender roles within Disney and of toxic masculinity. In the QC, Shang claims he will make them “des hommes, avant tout”. Not soldiers, men. Yet, their best soldier is a woman. Joke’s on them
There is not much to say about the next part, it is basically an ensemble of the other characters putting in funny one-liners and make a transition within the song so that they improve later on when the same melody is repeated but now they are good. I wanted to note that all three versions presented a rhyme with “gym”, which I though was impressive but also they did not really have a choice but to do in the translated texts’ case.
Finally we get to it, the chorus. In the VO, Shang gives his counsel as to “Be a man”. He uses the second person to address them. The same goes for the FR. However, the QC translating team decided to be a bit funky and make them a unit; they use the first person plural imperative. For once, the QC is closer to the original than its fellow translation as both versions present an ABAB rhyming scheme and the FR presents an AAAA. Almost all words rhyme in “an”: violent, torrent, puissant, ouragans, ardent, volcans, and Orient. Yes, French is weird and has a lot of different writing for the same sound and mute letters. An interesting point is that even if the two French versions are very different, they are in fact both very close to the original. Only, they each took a different interpretation and we get two divergent options which mean the same but do not look like it.
The last part I analysed is the last verse as the rest of the song is a repetition of the chorus over and over again. In this verse, Shang gives up on them. They are out of time, the enemy is coming and they are “unsuited for the rage of war” (VO). He does not believe anymore that he can make men, let enough good soldiers out of them. The rhyming goes ABAB, the first line floating in a void and the third fitting with the next verse. In the FR, he gives up as well. Here again, the QC team decided to mix things up a little and Shang says “Si vous redouttez la vue du sang/ Décampez, il est encore temps/ Oui je ferai des hommes de vous avant tout” (QC). It translates as « If you’re scared leave, I could make a man out of you but only if you feel like it ». They were conscripted into the army, they cannot leave. This is in opposition with the storyline in the movie.
Personally, between the two versions, I prefer the FR. It makes more sense with the story, it is closer to the original and the overall product feels more polished. We can see that there was some work put into the QC but it does not seem quite there yet. It is hard to translate, to chose the right method at the right time, the right vocabulary and the correct storyline, and I am glad that there are two versions so that we can appreciate the FR to its right value.
AlBzour, Naser N., and Baseel A. AlBzour. “From Semantics to Semiotics: Demystifying Intricacies on Translation Theory.” Advances in Language and Literary Studies, vol. 6, no. 5, 2015, pp. 121–127., doi:10.7575/aiac.alls.v.6n.5p.121.
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER-REVIEWED. The text advocates an approach by semiotics (symbolism) rather than strict textual translation as conveying meaning is the goal. A translator should aim to produce a text that gives their reader the same feelings they would have if they were reading the original (communicative translation). The application of semiotics is interdisciplinary: it most follow the semantic structure of the original, as well as the socio-cultural context from which and to which it goes because all languages have differences and resemblances and it is important to acknowledge them. There is no recipe to translate a text; it demands a human to pick on all the little connotations and context that a computer just cannot. It is “the body of knowledge that we have and have still to have about the process of translating” (122).
Anthropology has a huge influence over the field as it defines the culture and it relationship to language. One of the preeminent theories is that language shapes the way we think and therefore it makes the interpretation even a bigger deal. Semantic translation views the text in 3 ways: sense (concrete, figurative, technical and colloquial), degrees of frequency (primary, secondary, collocational, nonce) and whether it is core or peripheral. There are many different names for translation theory as it englobes many different methods together. Some specialist argue that poetry and literary text cannot be translated, only altered as they are too difficult and will change meaning in some ways.
The text was short but very dense. I had to do some googling while reading it because some of the vocabulary was out of my range of knowledge. The most important quote according to me is : “In a nutshell, translation theory cannot and should not aim at giving birth to good translators as such; rather it provides a framework for translators to consider but not to follow while reading, analyzing and translating a text.” (123) I think it resumes well the intent and releases a bit of pressure.
Guo, Jeff. “Analysis | Researchers Have Found a Major Problem with 'The Little Mermaid' and Other Disney Movies.” The Washington Post, WP Company, 25 Jan. 2016, www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/25/researchers-have-discovered-a-major-problem-with-the-little-mermaid-and-other-disney-movies/?ref=yfp.
THE WASHINGTON POST. This article treats a research paper about the gender issues present in Disney movies, but only the princesses franchise. It divides them in three eras: the Classics (Snow White, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty), the Renaissance (The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas and Mulan), and the New Age (Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Brave and Frozen). Since it was published in 2016, there are no mentions of Frozen II since it came out at the end of 2019. Overall, this brings insight to the division of characters by their gender – whether there are more men or women-, the line distribution – which gender speaks more and at what percentage-, and the message for a young female audience – what kind of compliments to the characters make-. We can find the information both in text and in graphics, it is a quick read and it really brings a new point of view with factual evidence to back it up.
I though it was a great summary as I tried to read the study and there were a lot of elements, Guo chose the right points and was able to express them so that the general public can understand the stakes. I was surprised particularly by the distribution of lines between genders in the Classics and Modern categories as the older are actually those that let the women speak more.
Holubenko, Nataliia, and Vladislava Demetskaya. “Category of Modality Through the Prism of Multipole Approaches in the Modern Translation Theory.” Journal of History Culture and Art Research, vol. 9, no. 2, 2020, pp. 303–318., doi:10.7596/taksad.v9i2.2500.
DAWSON COLLEGE LIBRARY. PEER-REVIEWED. This article treats of the approaches to translation in the last decades and the variety of methods one can use now to translate. There has been a shift has before, the resemblance to the original was key and now other things such as meaning and cultural references can take the upper hand. There are five different categories that overlap with each other: linguistic, textual, cognitive, communicative and sociocultural, and philosophical (305). There is no perfect method, everything is relative to the context. However, it had not always been that way. The author phrases it as “The rapid growth of translation studies during the second half of the 20th century has led to the domination of the linguistic-oriented science of translation, which substituted the word-for-word method.” (305). It was a revolution in the field.
A method that really interested me because I never heard of it before hand is the cognitive approach. Based mostly on psychology, with a side dressing of neuroscience, philosophy, etc. they address insightful questions such as “How do translators understand, interpret and create meaning in texts they work with? How do they use the strategies and choices to render properly the text? How does his/her inner world influence the choice in translating? What influences his way of thinking and understanding and how does it work?” (306). These are questions that interest me and I would like to do some further reading to learn more.
Hello everyone!
Just like in a Marvel movie, you made it until the credits so you deserve a little treat. We are coming to an end and I wanted to congratulate all the people in this class and those who are graduating this semester. Despite everything we made it and we only have a few weeks left before university and other projects. I wish you, dear reader, the best of luck and I invite you to check the other pages because they did an amazing job and deserve recognition for their efforts
Until we meet again
Maeva :)