REASON: The Enemy of Faith?
Oldman,
So far, I think we have been successful in avoiding quarreling over words. I think sometimes Talk Origins is not so successful in this regard. I am bringing these questions to you through email because I am under the impression that you are secure in your faith + seem to be willing to explore questions that many (who are less secure) fear will ultimately cast doubt on traditional beliefs.
As far as I can figure, our timelines for Paul's letters and the inception dates of the gospels are close, but yours lean towards earlier gospels. Still, we seem to be in agreement that most of the New Testament materials were available in written form by the end of the first century. While I think this is probably correct, I am not so sure these materials were widely distributed and I get the impression that different Christian communities held one or the other of the gospels in higher regard, perhaps even having unique collections of 'scriptures'. I also see Matthew and Luke as edited versions of Mark, with probable political spin. I do not see the gospels as eyewitness accounts, certainly not as we regard eyewitness accounts today. While I am open to the idea that Mark may have been contemporary with Paul's letter to Timothy, I question this idea because Paul seems to think of Christ as a legal representative for God, kind of a legal human foster child, who is therefore authorized to die for our sake. I can't think of many places where Paul even refers to the historical kind of Jesus presented in the Gospels outside of the resurrection. I mention these things not to quarrel, but mostly to acknowledge the things you said and see if I understand you correctly as well as provide more data regarding my own current perspective.
For what it's worth, I like to think of the Bible, not as THE inspired WORD of God, but as some inspired words of God - that is, I like to think his 'breath' flows through it. I like to think his 'spirit' can be discerned, or makes itself known. But I use all these scare-quoted words in a very naturalistic sense - no magic - just as I would for our constitution or even the statue of liberty...which might be said to reveal (for lack of better words) the spirit of America, - meaning, our best ideals, the ideas we have for justice and individual inalienable rights, these ideas are alive and embodied by our words and our symbols...and our narrative stories and sometimes even in our actions (though this seems more and more to be a historical artifact-think of the sacrifices given in WWII). I also expect that if God is alive and active, his inspiration will underlie many additional contemporary and future forms of expression.
In matters of faith, I am not seeking 'proof.' I understand that proof is difficult. Certainly in the realm of science, proof is a kind of Holy Grail that is seldom obtainable outside of formal systems of logic and geometry. I don't expect you to give me proof. Besides, if faith is really the hope of things that our not seen, then to expect proof seems somehow to nullify the whole bit about hoping for things not seen. But this particular line of reasoning often seems to result in a mindset that concludes that being blind is O.K. - that we shouldn't bother looking.
I DO want to be able to distinguish genuine faith from willful ignorance and/or wishful thinking. And if possible, I'd like to strip magical and superstitious thinking from Christianity.
Think of those people of faith in California, who believed a spaceship (somehow hidden in the approach of comet Hale-Bopp) was coming to pick them up - people whose faith was so strong that they paid for the ultimate ticket with barbiturate cocktails and plastic bags.
An extreme case? Then think about Abraham taking Isaac for a walk to the top of a hill, a rope under his arm and a ceremonial knife at his waist. (Provided of course that this was an actual historical event)
Or think about a German Pastor who feels led to plot the assassination of his country's dictator.
Or how about a cancer patient who forgoes medical treatment in hope of a miracle performed by a guy with a real bad haircut who makes a show of pushing people over on stage before thousands of sympathetic believers, calling it an anointing of the Holy Spirit?
Or how about a church elder, who in times of trouble, opens his bible like a Ouija board to see what the 'spirit' wants to teach him.
These examples are good reasons why faith has to be more than an intangible warm fuzzy feeling.
Bible narratives demonstrate that God might ask us to do almost anything. And throughout history, I think it is safe to say that almost anything has been done and justified, rightly or wrongly, with suspiciously relevant scriptures for every occasion.
As best as I can determine, we can seek God's will by considering scripture and the counsel of our community/church/family. (So far so good) But the language of our churches seems to suggest that we should also be listening to Jesus (our close personal friend) or the Holy Ghost or perhaps we are even to dream dreams or see visions.
I'm comfortable studying various bibles, and I respect my folks and listen to people of faith, but I'm tired of trying to establish what amounts to an imaginary relationship with Jesus. It reeks of dishonesty. Pastors and other clever rhetorical speakers never fail to say stuff like, "Jesus appeared to me." Or "Jesus laid this (insert favorite charity) on my heart". But when I seek these speakers out afterwards and ask them what Jesus looked like, or what he sounded like, they get these embarrassed grins and start explaining what a metaphor is.
I have been encouraged to immerse myself in scripture, to read it over and over and memorize parts. It is almost as if one is expected to be transformed simply through close proximity, as if standing next to nuclear radiation. But the more I read and study, the more I recognize the hand of man in the creation, transcription, translation, canonization and extensive biased study notes coloring every page of documents frozen from an age gone by.
So...do you believe in miracles?
'Cause ultimately, that's where I'm headed... No soul. No miracles. No Voodoo. No Magic. Just this Universe, this creation, where people made of meat share an unbelievable story and are free to work at learning to love...unselfishly...against their better 'meat' instincts.
Well...I can see I'm venting a little bit here. I don't expect you to have any answers. But I'd sure like to hear how you go about discerning God's will.
Two months ago I interviewed an old retired man from my church who I respect, and I introduced him to the idea of primary revelation - a term I picked up listening to Huston Smith in a dialogue with Marcus Borg. We had earlier gone over the common ways most people try to figure out what God wants them to do. I kept trying to steer him toward some supernatural event, some moment of transcendence that he might have experienced during his long life as a Christian. He just looked at me for a moment with his old tired eyes, and I suddenly realized he didn't have any idea what I was talking about. Finally, he grimaced and sized me up and said, "Maybe you're expecting too much?"
From the interview itself, I knew this man prayed, expected miracles, and read the Bible without any of the background understanding I've accumulated since my bible college days, yet here, at the end of his lifetime, he'd evidently never asked for, experienced or expected the assurance of a burning bush or enigmatic visitor. The 'bible' was all he needed, though his grasp of what the bible is seemed imperfect to me, (as does the bible ever since my exposure to historical criticism.)
This man's support of his church, his support of the youth group, his selfless love for his wife and his family, his continued curiosity and questioning at what I consider an age advanced enough for most others to be rigid and petrified, all of these things are things I admire in him. I would say the probability that he is a member of the kingdom of heaven is high, yet I'm not sure I respect the literal interpretation of scripture that got him there.
It would seem that the spirit inhabits where it may, regardless of how badly we botch our interpretations of scripture, which I suppose will ultimately be a good thing when it turns out I've missed the correct-interpretation- boat.
This interview backs up my initial assumption that there isn't anything non-naturalistic about faith...but it also shows that I deep down want my burning bush experience.
I envy the stories of Moses and his relationship with God, and how he got to see God, if only for a moment and only His ass after he passed by. If it happens to me, I imagine it will be some Friday evening in heavy traffic on the freeway on the way home from work when God will moon me from a passing station wagon.
Scott
In my original E-mail correspondence, I attached a column written by Leonard Pitts Jr. of the Miami Herald. It was called:
Asking Questions, seeking answers
In the column, Mr. Pitts describes the stand that religious fundamentalists are taking against the teaching of evolution in public schools. He speculates that it is insecurity that results in church signs that proclaim, "Reason Is the Enemy of Faith", and calls it a sad, troubling and even pathetic mind-set. But he finishes the article with this:
We inhabit a universe vaster than human comprehension, older than human wanderings, more wondrous than human conception. And in the face of that, we do the natural thing. We ask questions and seek answers.
That's not a denial of God. It is evidence of Him.