Happy-Go-Lucky - Mike Leigh interview (exclusive)

As Happy-Go-Lucky reaches cinemas and he prepares to release a book and a DVD collection, we talk to acclaimed British director Mike Leigh about his career to date and how he came to be where he is. This was an exclusive interview I conducted with Leigh for Orange Wednesdays, immediately following the group interview...

Q. It's a busy period in your life at the moment, what with Happy-Go-Lucky about to hit cinemas, a new book, Leigh on Leigh, and a DVD collection being released. Has it given you pause to reflect on your career?

Mike Leigh: I suppose so. It had to in a way. But my main concern for all of that is that people see the films. You make these films, they're around for a bit and then they evaporate, you know. The fact that there's a book to make people think about them and want to see them, and the fact they're actually going to be out there in a box set - and there's another box set later in the year with all the television films - is good news from that point of view. I want people to see them and enjoy them. One of the things that's really been infuriating for a number of years is that virtually anytime I go and buy any other film in HMV or Fopp or whatever, invariably the guy that's on the till says to me: "When's Naked coming out? I've had four requests for it this morning!" And it's so frustrating that it's not there. You think, bloody hell! So, at last it's coming out and people can see it.

Q. When did you know you wanted to turn your hand to making films?

Mike Leigh: Early on. I've always been into films. I grew up looking at every kind of British and American films. I never saw a film that wasn't in English until I was 17 and came to London and then I discovered world cinema and that was mind-blowing. I knew I wanted to make films very early. At the age of 12 I remember going to my grandfather's funeral in the snow and just thinking, as they were carrying the coffin down the stairs and into this hall where everyone was crowded in, "wow, this would make a great film!" And then I thought that's what I wanted to do, to make films.

Q. And which type of films inspired you?

Mike Leigh: All kinds of films inspired me, really. I mean, what did we see? We saw comedies, Ealing comedies, Westerns and musicals. You name it, basically. I just think it's a gas cinema. It's all an inspiration.

Q. How easy was it to realise those ambitions?

Mike Leigh: Well, it was tough. The first job was to get down to London and start finding out about it, so I trained as an actor and went to art school, to the film school and did various things to get the ball rolling.

Q. How did you find the confidence as a young filmmaker to work in the way you do?

Mike Leigh: I made my first feature film when I was 28, called Bleak Moments - which is on the box set that's coming out. By the time I did that I'd been making plays in the theatre, mostly on the fringe, and developing my way of working. I also knew about filmmaking because I'd been to the London film school and I'd been in films a bit, so I didn't really... it's not like it would have been if I'd made a film when I was 19 or 20. So, I'd been around the block a bit. Also, I'd worked with other people and we were all in it together. But you don't make films by yourself. Having said that, if the question is, "did I shit myself when I made that

film?" The answer is yes! 

And if the question is "do I still shit myself when I make movies?"  The answer is yes! The day you stop shitting yourself is the day you're in trouble basically because you're only as good as what you're actually doing. And the fact that this is my 18th full-length film doesn't guarantee anything. You've still got to get out there and justify your existence on the planet.

Q. So, do you still find yourself being surprised by how much you've managed to achieve in your career?

Mike Leigh: Yes. Like many people who do things that are creative I wasn't particularly good at school. I remember a master at Salford Grammar School saying to me: "You've never done a hard day's work in your life, Leigh, and you never will..." I don't know how hard that guy ever worked for his job [laughs] but when I think of the slog that I've put in, I think I would say he was wrong [smiles]. But the point is you can't get smug about it. I actually think it's a luxury and a privilege. And I've had very good luck to have been allowed to do what I've done and to have the opportunities - particularly as what I do is so ridiculous. I mean, I don't have a script, I don't tell you what it's about, you give me the money and I make the film. And I really, certainly won't continue the conversation if you say: "Well, it's fine but you have to have Nicole Kidman in it, or whoever..." And that's meaning no disrespect to Nicole Kidman. 

So, given all that, I think I'm extremely lucky and it's a privilege. So, those are my feelings even more than my own achievements. I could have blown it by not getting it together, or whatever, but if you get the opportunity the least you can do is get in and actually do it and get on with it really. But I've also said before that I don't do things on my tod. This is about collaborating and sharing with other people: actors, cinematographers, producers, designers, costume designers, editors, composers and all kinds of people. And it's a creative, positive collaboration. And it's a family that it's a privilege to belong to and to have the parental role in

some ways that I do.

Q. Is that part of the reason you like to surround yourself with so many people that you've worked with before, in front of and behind the camera? Does that provide a kind of safety net as well?

Mike Leigh: Well, not just a safety net. There is that but it's not the only reason I do it by any means. Dick Pope has shot all my films since 1990 and we just get on. What he delivers is fantastic but we talk the same language, though we're obviously different kinds of people because he's a cinematographer. So, he's a strong guy, a big guy, who can pick up a camera and walk with it on his shoulder. But I like to come back to the same people because it's an ongoing creative relationship but I also love to work with new people and the cast of Happy-Go-Lucky, of the 16 actors in it, I think only three are people I've worked with before.

Q. Do you always have total control over the films you make?

Mike Leigh: Yes, in the sense that nobody interferes in the wrong way. Obviously, film is a collaborative process. I think there has to be a general on the battlefield and a film has got to have a coherent, cohesive vision, and in that sense it's important for directors to actually direct, and a writer-director like me who makes films that come from a personal feeling or view of the world has to have sole control because committees can't make such films. I don't think committees can really make any kind of film. Having said that, I don't make films in the privacy of my own bedroom with nobody else there! I collaborate with actors and it's very

much about their input as much as mine. But the important thing is that the irrelevant people, like backers and producers who don't know what they're talking about and all that kind of thing, don't interfere and compromise anything like they do with so many films. In fact, the film that you see is pretty much the first cut with our own refinements. So, being in control is all about that more than it is about any kind of paranoid control freak stuff - although you can't be a director without being a paranoid control freak obviously [laughs].

Q. Do you still listen to what critics have to say? Or have you stopped caring?

Mike Leigh: No, I care because apart from anything else I want people to go and see the films and I don't want critics to put people off. Some people do. Jonathan Ross famously went out of his way on All Or Nothing to say: "Whatever you do, don't go and see this film; it's deeply tedious and who wants to watch a boring film about a lot of tedious, working class people on an estate?" Of course, that's not a description of that film at all. It's a very compassionate film that a lot of people love. But not a lot of people went to see it and I think Jonathan Ross made a major contribution because he had his TV programme and he was the film critic for the Daily Mirror at that time. So that's annoying. But the point is, a film is what it is. The work you do is what it is and we know when somebody makes a comment whether it's true or not. People are entitled to their opinions and we have a free press, so there's that to consider as well.

Q. Do you think sometimes the work that goes into making a movie is sometimes under-appreciated?

Mike Leigh: Sure, but you've got to justify it. There's a lot of hard work that goes into making any movie. I mean a lot of people go to great lengths to make films that are lousy. Hopefully, we've done that to make a film that is good and a rich and a positive experience. So, of course, not everybody appreciates that. But you can't ask an ordinary audience to like or love a film just because of all the work we've put in. We have to justify what we do.

Q. But do you think it's also the responsibility of critics to remind readers of the type of work that's gone into it, or at least to consider that themselves, when arriving at their opinions, rather than just dismissing some films based on the way they were feeling that morning?

Mike Leigh: Sure, it does happen and it's not good enough. You're right. Also, I tell you another thing. I've made a lot of films and some people have written about this film without taking into account that if I'm doing this film I must be doing it for a reason and within a context. There's some continuity to what we all do.

Q. What do you consider to be your own greatest achievements?

Mike Leigh: I don't know the answer to that. I think they're all remarkable. The fact that any of them exist at all... I mean, if you look at Topsy-Turvy you wonder how the hell we did it for five bob - or Vera Drake. But all the films have got some kind of phenomenal achievement in them, just in terms of the team and what we all set out together to achieve.

Q. Both Poppy [in Happy-Go-Lucky] and Vera Drake have an intense compulsion to help people, is that an aspect of humanity that captures you?

Mike Leigh: Well, the truth of the mater is that all aspects of humanity fascinate me and that's obviously one of them. I mean what depresses me is when people say as they have as a reaction to this film is that up to now all my films have been grumpy, miserable, negative and dour. But that's rubbish basically, it really is, because actually I am fascinated by how we are in any... people say to me "where do the ideas come from?" Well, the fact is I can embark on a film without knowing many aspects of what I was interested in purely because everybody is interesting... everybody. So, yes [to the question] - but not exclusively so.