Interview with Rebecca Barclay-Clist by David Sims

2 September 2022

New Zealand artist Rebecca Barclay-Clist will have an exhibition in Rawene from September 17 - October 23rd. The show will be a survey of the past five years of her art, featuring work from five series.

The show will include her latest series, titled Sanctum, work which grew out of her experience during lockdown of worshiping alone, in the home, with only close family, not her extended faith family. 

As a result, she said, she turned to a more abstract form of expression than she had used before.

Last year at a two-person exhibition in Nelson, featuring work from her Witness X series, Barclay-Clist said “I love painterly figurative art. I love abstraction because of the allure of something that requires more thought… I paint in order to process or work out the world around me and recalibrate the comfort of faith within it.”

The works in that series centered around Jesus Christ and the cross, “a witness to life and faith, seeing things, expressing them but not always wanting to be identified,” she explained. “I am concerned with people, life, faith, and truth… the struggle of these things, and God's compassion through it all.”

The pieces in Sanctum are indeed abstract, but unified and grounded by her use of a common motif, the ziggurat structure, which has a similar design to the stepped patterns of the poutama on a tukutuku panel, as well as a form used for religious temples throughout history.

What is the significance of the ziggurat image and poutama pattern you used?

I was looking for temple shapes. Being Maori but raised in a pakeha context, I wanted to incorporate ideas of my cultural background. The potama is the pattern often used for the stairway to heaven. I use it as a connection between the earth and the spiritual realm. 

The temples that I looked up, some were quite boxy. It was the idea that there needed to be a structure. I was thinking of the idea of being at home, and how church was at home. I wasn't raised with my Māori whanau, but I wanted to recognise and include that aspect of my and our culture here in Aotearoa New Zealand. We recognize both cultures and I wanted to include that, I wanted as many people included as possible. It is quite abstract work, because that's how I decided the ideas needed to be conveyed.

How should viewers approach, or consider your work?

I think all viewers will come to any artwork from their own background and make connections that way. If they’ve just come off the street and are just having a look that’s quite different from someone who’s read something or followed my work. If you know me you know that I’m a faith-based artist, if you’ve read on the website you’d have an inkling.

The earlier work is a lot more representational, I use it in a more symbolic way, but as I’ve moved on I’ve become more abstract, I think it’s my way of worshiping. When you’re in the studio you’re in that quiet space, and the Holy Spirit can speak to you. 

If they’re not into art they might recognize a shape, or relate to a texture or color combination. Or they might not see anything at all.

I don’t think anyone needs to have a background to understand or enjoy my work on a deeper level, people just enjoy art for how they enjoy it. But when teaching students, they get a lot more out of a piece of artwork if it’s explained to them, or if they’ve read something about it. Especially now that my work is more abstract, there are fewer clues.

I explained it to a friend of mine and she fell in love with it. She made a connection between her house during lockdown and the artwork, she saw it as a reminder of her time of being with her family and how special it was to have the time together.

Did you have any specific influences you were working under at the time?

It’s quite different for each series. I’ve always loved the Impressionists, I’ve always loved Colin McCahon. Some of the text in his work is really powerful. He was an influence for years and years, I grew up seeing huge canvases in art galleries. I love the color and vibrancy and painterly quality of the Impressionists. Some of the works from 7 Intentions / 7 Distractions are quite splashy. 

Responding to the observation that her work has gotten more abstract in the recent series, she said “As your ideas develop, that dictates how it needs to be painted, for me. Some of the early works are quite bright. As a teenager I remember looking at the works of Philip Clairmont, he used bold colors. I’ve always really enjoyed color, but as I’ve gone on I think things have gotten muted. 

Is there a piece you feel is a particular favorite, where you really nailed what you wanted to do?

It’s interesting, I’m still mulling them all over. I really like Dwelling. To be fair, I’ve never worked in such an abstract way. It was a real challenge, because abstraction comes with a whole lot of new rules. When you paint realistically, there’s something tangible there you can engage with, but when you're looking at something abstract there are other rules, like where things are placed and what the textures are, and I hadn’t dealt with that before. The first few I did were absolutely terrible, I didn’t know what I was doing. I knew what I wanted but I couldn’t see it. It takes a while to do that. I’m still chipping away. An idea will grow and expand and develop and you’ll go deeper with it, and something new will come of it.

What motivated you to create pieces around this particular theme?

I was looking at what it felt like, how our worship changed because we couldn’t be together. It was a quiet season in a way, but it was no less powerful, God was no less present, and with the bold structures I hope I’m conveying that God is powerful. There are some really soft works in there as well that speak more about humanity. I used the structure as the idea of the church, when you’re in your own homes, it’s kind of like your home has become that sacred space, since you’re not worshiping with a lot of people.

Growing up, what kind of art influenced you the most?

Anything with color, that was expressive. I just always loved creating. McCahon, Claremont and the impressionists mostly.

If anything would overarch all of the work over the years, it would be he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. People are the most important thing. When I started it was portraiture, people are the most important thing to Jesus, I wanted them to know they were really precious to God and to each other. That’s where it started. I’m just wanting people to know there’s a God that loves them. It’s an expression of my own personal experience, not everyone’s going to agree. 

Do you see yourself getting more abstract in the future?

I can’t answer that, the way that it goes is that you’ll make a body of work, and then generally out of that the next idea comes along, or whatever is happening in life in general becomes the next idea I think God’s speaking to me about. So whatever that is, I’ll need to figure out how to express that. But because this has been about spiritual connection and worship, it needed to be abstract. I wanted to present more emotive marks, shapes, and textures, more of a spiritual sense with the softness and the boldness contrast. You can’t pin down the Holy Spirit. 

Do you ever dream about art you’re working on, or get ideas in dreams?

Probably more day-dreaming. When I’m relaxing, that’s when I get ideas. I’ve dreamt about my exhibition and things going wrong!