Transcript of an interview aired at the FM Radio in Denmark

Dr. Pedersen. Thank you, Professor Shah, for agreeing to talk to us. I will ask a few general questions and you may freely share your observations for the benefit of our listeners. I have observed that India has made tremendous progress in the IT sector and billionaires are increasing in the country. Yet, I wonder why India has the largest number of nonliterates in the world. What could be the reasons?

Prof.Shah: The number of nonliterates is gradually decreasing. The Census of India (2001) shows that the number of non literates has declined during the last decade. Yet there is a massive number of nearly 300 million non literates in the country. This is partly due to failure to universalize elementary education and partly because of the ineffectiveness adult literacy programmes. Although India has succeeded in expanding school education, there is high dropouts and the quality of teaching also remains far from satisfactory. The success of literacy campaigns was not followed up by effective post literacy programmes thereby paving the way for relapse of neoliterates into illiteracy. Currently India has started laying more emphasis on improving the quality of teaching and introduced midday meals to attract and retain children in schools. Besides, with the institutionalization of adult education programme by establishing Continuing Education Centers, it is hoped that the progress would be faster. India is also trying to use ICT for the promotion of literacy. Asia’s biggest software company- TATA Consultancy has designed computer based functional literacy programme and a Professor of Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad has developed an innovative programme called Same Language Subtitling for teaching literacy through popular film songs telecast through the National television . With the concerted efforts of the state and civil society, the literacy scenario in India will change very soon.

Dr. Pedersen. Currently you are in Denmark as an Erasmus Mundus Scholar engaged in teaching European Masters Programme in Lifelong Learning and researching on the European policies and programmes of Lifelong Learning. How did you come to know about the programme? What is your experience of teaching and living in Denmark? Is this your first visit to Copenhagen?

Prof. Shah: Yes this is my visit to Denmark. In fact I had read about Danish Folk Schools and appreciated the philosophy behind the schools. After the launching of the European Masters in Lifelong Learning, Professor Soren Ehlers and his colleagues visited Indian universities to publicise the programme and recruit interested students to join the programme. Since the programme offered very attractive Fellowship and students could study the two year programme in three universities, some of the students who had done even M.Phil programme took admission.The programme brochure included not only the information about the course of study, but also details of the Visiting Scholar Award to the faculty and I decided to apply.

As a part of my programme, I got a chance to teach the Masters students at the Danish School of Education. To my surprise I found that there were no Danish students in the class as they attended another parallel programme in Danish language. Most of the students were from India, Pakistan and Africa. Even when I gave a public seminar there were no Danish Students. Thus, I did not get a chance to interact with young Danish students and it was a great disappointments. However I enjoyed my research and in fact I was given the room of a teacher who was visiting India and I had given my office room for her use .

Dr. Pedersen. How did you get into the field of Adult Education?

Prof.Shah: I entered this field about three decades back when I joined the National Council of Educational Research and Training as a Lecturer in Non formal Education. At that time India had just initiated a pilot project on nonformal education for rural development and I got a chance to work in that project located at Bhumiadhar near Nainital- a hill resort in north India. My eight years of developmental work at NCERT, took me to almost all the states in the country which helped me to gain insight into the educational problems. I started wondering about the rampant illiteracy in the country and decided to study and focus more on the causes of illiteracy. Then, when Jawaharlal Nehru University from where I did my PhD, set up an Adult Education Unit , I applied and got selected as an Assistant Director of Adult Education. The University job opened up more avenues for research at several overseas universities of Toronto, Syracuse, Nottingham and Warwick. These visits and interactions with distinguished adult educators strengthened my resolve to focus on Adult Education.

Dr.Pedersen. You have been a university teacher for long and may have had several observations on university adult education. What is the status of university adult education in India vis a vis other countries?

Prof.Shah. As in other countries, Adult Education remains a marginal field of study in Indian universities. Hardly 20 % of universities (80 out of 400) are involved in Adult Education as in 2007. Although 10 universities offer master’s programme in Adult education, they do not attract good students. During the Tenth Five Year (2002-7) when I served as an expert member of the Standing Committee of the University Grants Commission, I noticed that notwithstanding the financial support of the UGC to universities to open 20 new departments of Adult Education, not more than five universities responded. Most of the university administrators were not interested in Adult Education mainly due to personal biases and ignorance about Adult Education. There is a need to change the mind set of university officials and academics towards Adult Education. If the University Adult Educators undertake quality research and bring out excellent publications, I think, it may help to change the attitude of university community towards Adult Education.

Dr. Pedersen: You have been associated with Indian Adult Education for over three decades. Could you please tell us about the current scenario of Adult Education and some of the challenges and achievements and strengths and weaknesses?

Professor Shah: India is one of the biggest democracies with over a billion people of whom about 70% are below the age of 35 years. Over the years, India has built a strong administrative machinery for the planning and implementation of Adult Education programmes comprising of National Literacy Mission at the federal level and State Literacy Missions at provincial levels and Literacy Committees at district levels along with several institutions like the Directorate of Adult Education, twenty-five State Resource Centers for providing academic support to the programme. Besides there are nearly 300 Janshikshan Sansthans ( Institute of Peoples Education ) for providing skill training to neoliterates and unemployed youth and eighty university departments which offer a variety of continuing Education courses, masters and doctoral level programmes and undertake research and evaluation. India has a vibrant NGO sector which has been involved with adult education activities. Indian Adult Education Association is one of the oldest and biggest professional organization keeping the flag of Adult Education flying high. Inspite of the well articulated policy of Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan (Education for All) and successful literacy campaigns, our literacy rate was only 64.84%.in2007 In absolute numbers, there are nearly 300 million nonliterates. Imparting basic literacy to a massive number scattered in different parts of the country and speaking various languages is one of challenges facing us. Added to this is the need to provide a meaningful continuing education to an increasing number of (about 110 million as on March 2008) neoliterates coming out of literacy programmes. There is not only a dearth of committed professionals to implement the programme but also inadequate supply of neoliterate reading materials. Innovations and use of ICT in Adult Education have been very minimal. Research and evaluations are very weak Over and above, the funding for adult education is too insufficient and the political will has been fluctuating. Given the size of the country and limitations of resources , India has made steady progress in developing a well defined infrastructure for the planning and implementation of Adult Education programmes, setting up a large number of Institutes of Peoples Education for imparting grassroots level skill training to youth and developed interesting ways of using ICTs like the television and computers for teaching literacy and innovative programmes like the Mahila Samakhya ( women’s empowerment ) which have won international recognition.

Dr.Pedersen; I understand that India has a strong network of civil servants and some of them have done excellent work in the field of Adult Education. What are your observations on the role of bureaucracy in Adult Education?

Prof.Shah; Yes, India has a strong civil service. As you have mentioned, some of them have excelled in Adult Education. In fact, I have been closely following the functioning of the Director Generals of the National Literacy Missions since 1988. During the last two decades, there were six Director Generals(DG) and I got plenty of opportunities of personally interacting with most of them and observing their style of functioning and knowing their views through their talks and opinion of their colleagues. I could classify these six DGs into two categories: The first category were those who had deep understanding and took keen interest in the programme and were easily accessible to literacy workers and worked like literacy missionaries. They were very articulate and had a non bureaucratic approach to the programme. They seem to derive great pleasure and pride in their work. The second category were those who functioned in a highly bureaucratic manner. For them Adult Education was just another government programme to be implemented as desired and directed by the Minister. They disposed of the files as and when they were submitted by their subordinates and had limited interaction with literacy workers. Minimum involvement with the programme and workers was their motto. Adult Education thrived during the tenure of the first category when, India received international recognition for Adult Education. The Director General being the key bureaucrat, it is natural that their leadership and enthusiasm matters most.

Dr. Pedersen: You are closely associated with Non-Governmental Organizations in India, especially Indian Adult Education Association. How did you get involve with IAEA. What has been your role in IAEA and specific contributions to the field of Adult Education.

Prof.Shah: I have had plenty of opportunities of visiting several NGOs in different parts of the country and studying their work. Apart from being a member of India Advisory Board of World Literacy of Canada and India Literacy Board , I continue to serve IAEA as a Vice President. My association with IAEA began when I started attending some of the programmes organized by the Association and delivering lectures in the Research Methodology courses and occasional seminars. Later, Mr.K.C. Chaudhury, then General Secretary of IAEA entrusted me the work of planning and coordinating the academic programmes and extend help in editing the Indian Journal of Adult Education. Subsequently, he provided me an opportunity to serve IAEA as a Vice President . In that capacity, I took active part in conceiving and coordinating national seminars and workshops on the Role of Media in Adult Education and Evaluation. During the course of my active involvement with the activities of the IAEA I felt that IAEA being one of the oldest and biggest organizations of Adult Educators in the country, needs to play a more active role in the professionalisation of Adult Education not only at national level but also at international level. This, I felt could be better achieved through the establishment of an International Institute as an offshoot of IAEA. With the closure of the National Institute of Adult Education, there has been a vacuum. I discussed this idea over a relaxed lunch at India Habitat Center with Mr. Chaudhury who not only welcomed the idea but also designated me as Honorary Director of the Institute to work out further details. I conceived the International Institute of Adult and Lifelong Education as an autonomous, non profit and nongovernmental organization with the main aim of professionalizing Adult Education by strengthening and promoting Adult Education as a distinct field of practice and discipline of study. The Institute began functioning in December 2002, with an international seminar on Urban Literacy organized in collaboration with DFID, Uppingham Seminars, National Literacy Mission, Jawaharlal Nehru University and Delhi State Resource Center . Since then, the Institute has been actively pursuing several professional activities. I would like to mention the two important initiatives of the Institute viz; publication of an International Journal of Adult and Lifelong Education and organization of Professor James Memorial lectures which I conceived and coordinated. Apart from this, I took the initiative of designing a professional development programme for the middle level functionaries of Adult Education though Open and Distance Learning mode with support of the UNESCO Institute for Lifelong Learning and University Grants C omission of India. The course materials were later accepted by the Indira Gandhi National Open University for developing a six-month Diploma Programme. I have served as an expert member of the Executive Committee and National Award committees of the National Literacy Mission of the Government of India and developed the techniques and tools for the evaluation of the State Resource Centers and did two pilot evaluations of the State Resource Centers of Madhya Pradesh and Gujarat .

Dr. Pedersen: Lastly, I would like to know your experiences of living and learning in a Denmark.

Professor Shah: I have gained very rich and valuable experiences in Denmark. Danish people are considered to be the happiest in the world. I tried to find out what made them happy. Apart from the welfare system and very high standard of living, the people prefer to talk less and hardly interfere in others affairs. They are very conscious of their responsibilities and commitments to self and society. They trust everybody . The nation believes in honesty and self accountability of citizens. In education system, self learning is encouraged. They are true believers of Lifelong Learning.