Creativity in Science Teaching

Becca Price: Thank you everybody for being here to talk about creativity in our pedagogy, and we're going to lean a little bit into what creativity in teaching science at the university means. But that's not going to be our only focus by any means. I'm Becca Price. I'm a professor in the School of Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences at the University of Washington, Bothell. And I'll pass it on to my colleague, Nathalie.

Nathalie Tasler: I'm Nathalie Tasler, and I'm a senior lecturer in academic and digital development at the University of Glasgow. And Linnea?

Linnea Soler: Oh, we're introducing ourselves. It's lovely to meet you all. I'm Linnea Soler. I am a senior lecturer in chemistry at the University of Glasgow. And the next person is Sunita.

Sunita Iyer: Hi. I'm Sunita Iyer. I'm an associate teaching professor in the School of Nursing and Health Studies at the University of Washington, Bothell. 

Becca: And then Smita.

Smita Odedra: Hi, everyone, and thanks for having me as part of this conversation. It's really exciting to be here and to chat with you. So, I'm Smita Odedra, and I am a senior lecturer in physical chemistry at the University of Glasgow.

Becca: Excellent. Thank you. So now Nathalie is going to kick off our conversation with our first question.

Nathalie: So, the first question I would like to ask is, "what is a big challenge that you have had in your teaching? And how have you solved it?" Does anyone want to go first?

Becca: I can. I can start. This is Becca, and one of the biggest criticisms that students would give me early on my career was "this feels like busy work." And really digging into backward design and thinking "what is the product that I want students to make to illustrate what they've learned? What do I want? How do I want that that project or that product to be framing an experience that they can take with them into the rest of their lives?" has allowed me to streamline my courses. And it becomes easier to explain how each task fits with that goal of doing that project. 

The other thing that I've done that, I think, gets into creativity is thinking about alternate grading strategies. So, I tell my students which assignments are not as important. I call them the "For Excellence" assignments, and if they want to get an A, they need to do those, but if they don't want an A, they don't have to. They are more peripheral to the final project, but they're also important to the topic. So, they really are these ideas to explore for excellence rather than as a requirement. And it's been really fun to get into a creative mode, to think about "What are my grading strategies that can both reflect the work that students do and can cut back on the kind of time that I'm spending grading?", because I don't want to be grading assignments that students don't think are valuable because they don't do them well. And then the creativity of how to explain this grading scheme that that students aren't used to, to them.

Nathalie: I really like that. You're framing something as for excellence, you know, rather than making it the deficit discourse about something not done. It's something, you know, more desirable. I really like that framing.

Becca: Thank you.

Nathalie: Does anyone else want to answer this question?

Smita: I guess I can hop in if you want, and it's also kind of connected with assessment. And one of the challenges that I faced was with my labs. And so I do third year chemistry labs. And eventually I just got really bored of marking the lab reports, because everyone does really well. And it's all very similar stuff. And after a hundred reports like, okay, this is a bit tedious now. And then, it's the same thing every year, and it just finally got too much for me. So, a few years ago, I decided to introduce a bit more flexible assignments into my lab, but I completely flipped it over from having, like, a very distinctive, like, "This is what you must do. I'm expecting a lab report." And I just changed it into "Do whatever you want. But communicate to me in the form that you choose what you've learned in this session today." And so really giving the power to the students to choose the way that they were showing me what they've learned and just letting them have that creative freedom and that space to make something that represented what they learned, but also doing it in a way that was authentic to them, and the way that they wanted to show me their learning. So that was really exciting.

Nathalie: Thank you. I think Linnea wanted to say something.

Linnea: Yeah. I was reflecting on this, and I'm trying to think of the bigger picture and things I've put into place to try to be creative and try to encourage active learning. And it just came to me today when I was just thinking something I was...I hadn't realized that I do. And I think it probably is potentially creative approach to teaching and this is different to me hopping around like a frog, which I did do today. And it worked, but is what I'm trying to…so, when you're trying to teach organic chemistry, there's so many different levels of information. And there's so many languages that are involved. And you have to describe the way atoms assemble and the way the electrons are interacting and the impact of things that are stuck on a molecule on the other side of the molecule. And there's words to describe this in 3 or 4 different formats and naming systems. And it can be really, really complicated just to come into it and actually make sense of it and actually understand why this molecule will react with this molecule, but not that one. And then you have to be able to draw curly arrows, which is like a whole nother language system that you're bringing into it. So there's a lot of complexities. And I was realizing today that when I teach, I suppose I anthropomorphize these molecules, and I'm sitting there, and I'm, like, talking about benzene, and the electrons are in its belly, and it's really, like, satisfied, and it doesn't want to react. But then, if there's this poor electrophile that's so lonely, and it needs electrons, and I will, I will push out my pair of electrons, and I'm sitting there. And I'm doing this weird dance. And I'm talking about lonely things and angry things and bees and wasps, and how they interact with each other. And then I just, and I just think this is normal. And then I left it in. And I thought. "Okay, this is a little bit, zany, but it seems to work.” It's sort of, and I don't know how I'm going to do it every day, but it's that response to the to the students, and seeing that confusion, and just like just letting the brain think, okay, how can I try to explain this in another way? But it is a very physical art of wobbling and flapping and doing things, and so I don't know if I've answered the questions, but I think I've just articulated one of my approaches to try to get a very difficult concept across and keep students engaged.

Nathalie: [laughing] It sounds interesting, Smita. Thank you, Linnea. And Sunita.

Sunita: Listening to that makes me think of, well, not doing the exact same thing, but just thinking about how to make what they are working on and what they're producing in our classes relevant and connected. And so, I think about creating those, you know, your lessons as characters is probably about creating that connection as if building that relationship.

One of the things that I have noticed, much like many of you have talked about, is that students don't see the point in what they're working on for a variety of reasons. And I'm  working and teaching a lot of students who have the demands of being first generation college students, maybe even the expectations to support families or contribute to their families. And so, they're really thinking about is…they want everything that they're doing here to be connected to sort of that bigger goal. 

So, I actually was working with career services to think about "what do employers want?" And what's interesting is, it's very different than what the students think employers want and what their parents think employers want. So, part of that is demystifying what is actually needed. And so much of that is communication, communication, communication. And being able to think creatively and to innovate, right? And so, they don't... many of my students in the science tracks might not think that humanities or creative work have a lot to offer them. And so a big piece of bringing creativity into the classroom has been to connect it to those professional goals and also for them to give them some transcript for lack of a better word for them to speak to their families about it, too, who might be feeling really challenged by the fact that their students aren't doing sort of quote unquote their children aren't doing productive things in school. If they're looking that closely at it. So that's probably how I'm solving it right now is tying what we are doing to what they think their endgame is right now.

Nathalie: Thank you, Sunita. That's a really good point about the, you know, understanding what something is for in a road. Yeah, sorry. That's just reminded me of my PhD research. And one of the key things was that relevance. You know, the students needed to know what the relevance of what they were learning. Otherwise, the engagement wouldn't be there.

And that brings me to my problem: engagement. So, my students are colleagues and peers, and they're on a master's program. And they're studying part-time, next to demanding full-time job. And it's a 2-semester research methods course and getting basically sustained engagement is really challenging. And it keeps being challenging. 

And one thing I did was one year, I decided, I completely rejiggled the course and make it into a role play adventure and basically created gold coins and tokens and dragon eggs people could collect. So, for every station people did, they could collect a hoard which they then could engage. And so, what happens is that we have, like, in Europe we have like a credit system. So, my course has 20 credits. This is 200 notional learning hours, and then there are certain amounts of tasks associated with it, and I gave each task a certain value. And they could also get side quests: if they struggled with something they could get coins by a side quest. Or I made it also inclusive. So, if someone was too uncomfortable to share in in-person conversation, they could do and just share a research or "Look! There's something nice I found. I want to show you." So, they could still get their coins. The feedback was, it was about half the class told me they really liked it, and it helped them stick with it. But other feedback was, it was more cognitive load because they had to learn a system on top of the course. So that kind of worked and kind of also didn't work. So, I'm currently back to the drawing board with trying to figure our de-engagement issue in the course. So. And I don't know if anyone has a comment before we're moving on to the next question, and Becca.

Becca: Yeah, I have a follow up to what Linnea was talking about, and I think it leads into the next question. So, I'll just jump in. Thank you all for your responses. And Linnea, I don't know if you know the author, Dava Sobel. I think one of her most famous books is Galileo's Daughter, but she also has a book called The Planets, and one of the chapters is told from the history of a rock. And it's the rock sharing its own history. I'm a paleontologist by training, and so in one of my early classes, we were doing a rock lab, and to make it different from just memorizing what different kinds of rocks look like, and how they were formed, I had each student choose one of the specimens in the lab and write the story, have it write a first person narrative of how it came to be. So, I think that this idea of personifying can be really, really powerful.

I think it can also be misleading, though, right? Because as a paleontologist, I'm an evolutionary biologist, and then we start when we start personifying evolution, we can really get into trouble about, you know, some of the most common misconceptions about “oh, this species survived because it needed to adapt.” Well, that's not how adaptation works. Adaptation doesn't have foresight. Mutation doesn't have foresight, right? It's just what variation already exists in a population that ends up surviving better in a particular environment. So yes, and…

Our next question is about our disciplines and how our disciplines impact our creativity. So, I think that's why thinking about rock formation and also thinking about evolution framed that creative moment for me. So, for you all, what are your disciplines, and how do those frame the creative moments that you have in your teaching? And then how do you teach students to emulate that kind of creativity. 

And the reason I ask this is because in the States at least, students throughout K-12 are, and often in introductory courses, are taught science through tests. And so, they learn science by getting questions right. And then the transition to scientific research, where discovery is based on being wrong is a huge frame shift, and it's a very stressful one, because students feel like they've done something wrong if they find out a hypothesis that they proposed is false. And it's, again, it's actually discovery. But they are so confused by how to be proud of something that they did wrong. 

So, what does creativity mean in your disciplines? And how do you share that with students?

Yeah, Nathalie, go ahead.

Nathalie: It looks as if everyone else is still thinking a little, so I can make a start. So, my discipline is education. And so, for me, that is inherently creative, you know, because you're constantly having…I think education is one of the most challenging to get right because you're constantly negotiating and renegotiating and trying to figure out what works and how it works. And so, I'm actually teaching…Together with my colleague, Dr. Vicki Dale. I'm teaching a course creative pedagogies for active learning. And we have colleagues from stem disciplines, and they tend to actually be some of the most creative people in the course. And, we encourage, so we teach through dialogic pedagogy. So, there is a lot of conversation. There is a lot of space for questioning, for challenging us, for we've had some serious debates, and we've had some serious pushback as well, and we really intentionally design. So, the course is designed based on a narrative arc, and we intentionally design cognitive different dissonance into the course. So, we really want to push our learners, but then we help them, and there is space to experiment and to share, and to get feedback. Sorry I'm stumbling over my words, is a bit late. Yeah. So.

Becca: Getting to that point of cognitive dissonance is really challenging, because it's hard to make people uncomfortable. But it's also that moment where creativity keeps, where creativity kicks in and real learning can happen. So, I'm glad that you emphasize the support that you're offering at that stage.

Who else would like to chime in about how your discipline is shaping the creativity in your teaching, or that you're asking your students to do?

Yes, Sunita.

Sunita: Well, I…so, in my discipline, I'm a healthcare provider. And I teach primarily nursing students, but also public health students. So, health, oriented people. And people who are really invested in change and justice, health, equity, you know, really improving the well-being of people. So, I think in some ways, there are some easy connections for people to make between creativity and well-being, because they can witness some of that in their own lives, and also understand that the process of discomfort is inherent to change, whatever kind of change it is. And it's also…it's people who are very used to getting things right, and that not getting something right has major consequences. You know, medication errors, you know, fatalities, things like that. So, it's a really interesting group of people who are really uncomfortable in the discomfort, but are also on some level, willing to come join me. 

So, I think that there's…it's been it's been sort of fascinating to experiment, you know, working with, like, group poetry, with nurses. And as an example, and just thinking about almost sort of like holding them and bringing them along. And there's a little bit of willingness to join me in that. 

So, it's been…I won't say it's easy, but I think that there's some pieces…like I have a slightly easier entry point, maybe, than in some other disciplines within science for that reason. 

And one of the things that I can tie it to for them is just even the Kübler-Ross Stages of Grief, just like it's really the Kübler-Ross Stages of Change. First, they're in denial about creativity, their own creative endeavors, and maybe possibly the relevance. Then there's some frustration and discomfort. But ultimately, to get to that point of acceptance and or integration, there has to be several stages of discomfort. And so, I think, sometimes even just utilizing some of those models that we apply in other parts of healthcare, help them understand where…what the creative process looks like, too.

Becca: I think it's fascinating, now that a couple of us have focused on that dissonant moment, that discomfort in this question, and it occurs to me, Sunita, that your students, a lot of them, are already working as nurses, and they're coming back for additional education, and they're already dissatisfied with the system. Right? They're already in that place of discomfort, because they see the problems in the field where they're working, and that…you don't need to teach them how to get to that point. They come ready to change. 

Sunita: Yeah.

Becca: And any direction where you're pushing them…it isn't necessarily adding to this their discomfort, it's actually helping them direct their discomfort. Do you think that's…?

Sunita: 100%. I was just thinking about that, as you were saying that you know, when I teach grad students in the social justice and community health program. They're coming because there is such an incredible lack of justice and inequity in our healthcare system. They're coming with the idea to be change agents, especially in our system that doesn't provide for people at all. So, you're right. It does again create some level of ease in inviting them along through that process.

Nathalie: May I quickly pick up on a comment you made, Becca, about directing discomfort? I think there is something in there to explore, maybe later in the reflections. So, it's basically a commentary bookmark about agency of the learners, and to helping them to have agency in these processes that are uncomfortable, but necessary for their development. So, yeah, there. That's something to think about a bit.

Becca: Great. Yeah. Linnea.

Linnea: Hi. So, this is sort of moving away from Sunita. What you've been exploring. And actually, I'm just riveted by it, and it's hard for me to think, after listening to all these amazing things that everybody is saying. But I was trying to reflect on. So, I'm in chemistry, my particular area that I'm supposed to know about is organic chemistry. And, I was thinking about “oh, where's the creative moments in chemistry?” 

But then I was thinking, because, you know, you think chemistry is a science, you know, and we need to, you know, we have to build. You know our knowledge up. We have to scaffold it up. We need to build it up, and you get to one layer, and then you sort of kind of destroy it a bit, and then you go on to the next layer, and you keep going. And you think, where? Where is the creativity in this? But, what we're doing is, we're training people. 

These are, this is information. This is almost like LEGO bricks. So, you're giving the information. But you're teaching them that they have the power to snap things together in different ways and actually create a structure that doesn't work or something doesn't work, but to recognize that, and then actually learn from that, and then go back in and try it again. So, I think it's actually…chemistry is imbued with creativity. We're just actually putting giving people rules and structures and then teaching them as they get…

And, of course, there's a tension here because we've got the whole assessment and feedback system that's in play. And there's limited ability or space for constructive failure. You know, you get, you do an assignment, you get some feedback, but it counts for marks. You know there's…you don't get a chance to really mess up and actually enjoy it, and learn from it as much the better. 

Students, I would say, not the better students, the ones that know that failure is learning, embrace it. The other ones? It can crush them so. 

But, I think there's so much creativity. Because if we didn't have creativity in chemistry, by the time you got into the lab, and you're actually trying to make something, you wouldn't think “Oh, that's a different color. I wonder why that's going on. Let me try something else.” I mean, it's all, sort of, you know, “wah ha ha ha!” and throwing things together sometimes, and that's really, really fun. 

So, I think, did I answer that bit of the question? I'm not sure my sorry, my mouth starts going, and I'm not certain what I'm saying. But, here we are.

Becca: This is all great. Thank you.

Smita: I guess I'll just add on, since I'm in chemistry as well. I've also just loved listening to all your answers, and I think we actually hit on something there about chemistry inherently being creative in its very nature. It is also very content heavy, so, like, from the point of view as an educator, sometimes I don't always see the creative moments, because we're always just trying to get through another day and pack in a lot more stuff. But, I think we need to always recognize our students have this inherent curiosity, which is, like, always switched on, even if we're not deliberately looking for it or making space for it. We know that it's there, and I think sometimes you see it, like, in the in between spaces. It's not really happening during a class or during a lecture or during a tutorial, but you might hear like snatches of conversation between people and where they're discussing something they heard, and trying to apply it to something else, or wondering what would happen if you'd done something a bit differently and apparently even like in our in the guys’ toilets in our in our buildings, like, it's covered in graffiti with people, like, leaving questions about “how would you synthesize this?” or “have you tried this?” So, there's like a whole wall of people creatively trying to answer each other's chemistry problems and questions. 

And there's so much problem solving that comes from scientific disciplines, because it's all just inherently about trying to explore a bit more and think about things in a slightly different way and just advancing things, and that always just starts with that point of creativity.

Nathalie: Can we please make this a student research project to take photos of this wall?

Becca: Well, I was just thinking that my kids would love that somehow we worked potty humor into the conversation, because that's where a lot of creative energy goes in our home right now. 

Smita, thank you so much. I think that part of what everybody's answer has highlighted is the joy, and the fun, the playfulness of learning. And, so, how can we bring that that playfulness in. And how do we make sure that that playfulness is tied to the learning goals of the course rather than, as Nathalie was saying, a whole extra set of rules for us to learn? And that's, you know, those are pretty big, big questions.

With that, let's move on to Sunita, who's going to ask our next question.

Sunita: Right. Popular misconception seems to be that science isn't creative. And yet every time we come up with a research project that's a form of creation, and requires imagination. If you teach in the sciences, how do you encourage creativity? How do you address this misconception.

Linnea? Take it away.

Linnea: I think this is something that Smita is probably going to chime in with, because Smita and I are this inseparable power duo in chemistry, and we have so much fun. But we have the best project students, and I, as you said, you have to be creative to come up with a project they have to final year. Students have to do a 40-credit project. They have to do some work. They have to write up a thesis, and Smita and I are both in learning, teaching, and scholarship. So, we're not in the lab. We're not research and teaching. We're learning teaching scholarship. So, we aim to undertake some chemistry education research, we really want to do scholarship of learning, teaching, and because the two of us sort of spark off each other, and naturally knows this because she's part of our sort of zany, zany brainstorm. We just come up with things that make us giggle generally, but things that we're genuinely interested in, and I think both of us are also very imbued with…are involved and focused on supporting the student learning experience, and whether it's just the chemistry, it's how to approach chemistry, how to learn from it. You know the challenges and trying to look at the human side of learning.

And so, we generally meet with our students, and then we have some ideas. But then I think the most important thing is the creativity that we might have just like. You should have seen that we were going to do a musical one year, and that changed into something else. Which was also really freaking amazing. Oh, sorry. Can I say freaking? Okay, I just have twice. Okay, really, amazing with one of our project students, but we ask them what they think, and they've got ideas. And I mean, ideas are creative. And so, between all of us sort of talking with each other, things go pretty wild for a while, don't they? Smita?

Smita: Yep, yes! Pretty much.

Linnea: Pretty, pretty wild, and then we managed to rein it back in. And out of this sort of, just “what if”? could we try this? Who knows? Well, if we did this, it could go in the wrong direction. If we went this way, this could go in the wrong direction, or you know it's too many directions. Let's pull it back, and I think our favorite phrase is, “keep it simple, stupid.” So, we try to keep applying that. And, Nathalie is always in the background going “Whoa! Pull back! Pull back! You're going in too deep.” But I think all of that is creative, and it is, and that also. And I think we're talking about engaging. This is the best way of engaging our students. And I think back, Becca, the very first question. Several people talked about creativity and engagement, and Nathalie, you mentioned about engagement. So I think all of these things. It's sort of this. I don't know what's it called a Venn diagram with creativity possibly at the heart of it.

Smita, you can chime in there because I'm sure there's lots of things I haven't said.

Smita: Yeah, I think you summarized it pretty well. To be honest, when we get together and we start chatting. It's hard not to be creative, not to come up with new ideas because they're just so much potential. And you can find inspiration in so many different places. And but the core of it, as Linnea said, is really looking for things are really going to actually make a difference for people. We're not doing this just because it's fun. It is fun, but we want things to be for the greater good of students and their learning.

Sunita: Now something that occurs to me as you're talking to is also just thinking about reframing creativity for people, too, that it's not just about, maybe say creating a canvas, or, you know, a musical, but that the collaboration and that excitement and that curiosity is creativity.

Nathalie: That actually, Sunita, your comment actually just made me think about my way of introducing creativity and also what Linnea said about us as students, what they think. And I think that's what we're doing, is there? There is so much misconception. Our colleagues…so, when they come in our program, these tend to be early career colleagues, and there's so many misconceptions they sometimes experience in their own faculty about what they should and should not be doing when they're teaching, and we encourage them to basically think beyond that. And there is…I think there is fear because there is fear about this: “What if I'm not perceived as professional because I'm doing something creatively? What if that destroys my reputation I worked so hard on building?” And we are trying to encourage people to see that, why we enjoy the play and the fun and the creativity. But there is actual science behind it. There's actual research behind it. There's scholarship behind it. So, it's not coming out of out of the blue and feedback we regularly get in the course is: “This course made me brave enough to…”, “this course gave me the confidence to…”. You know, and yes, I have said in in the living room, marking, crying, and my partner coming like, Why are you crying? It's like, Oh, my gosh! It's this! And I think this is leads to what Smita and Linnea were saying about when we're not just doing this for the fun. But we want to, you know, create some change and improve things. Yeah.

Sunita: That's a really great point, too. Thinking about being perceived as unserious in academic circles where, you know, taking ourselves incredibly seriously, is part of the package. I have to imagine there's also some layer of that that is even a little more tricky, as at least in this room, female presenting, possibly identifying faculty. And I'm curious about. And maybe I don't want to put you on the spot, Becca, but if you are willing to say something about this being in different schools might have a different effect on that, too. I know that for myself, being in a school of nursing and health studies. I have definitely come up against nursing faculty, who feel very much like, you know, testing. And you know, licensing exams. And that's how we should be teaching and that these creative endeavors are not only not serious, but not adequately preparing people for what they're going to do. And you know, as a healthcare provider, I'm like, I don't know. Caring for humans is one of the most creative things I do in a week. But.

Becca: Right? Yeah, especially because each person is different and responds to treatment differently. Yeah. So, I am…You know, I was trained in a very traditional paleontology program. But going back, my grandfather was a physical chemist. And he actually worked on the Manhattan project. And you know that's a loaded history. But one of the things that he enjoyed most about his experience there was the roundedness of interests that people working on the Manhattan project had. So, he talked about how he loved going to the symphony, the amateur symphony that his colleagues had put together. He didn't play an instrument, but he was like, “You know, so many of these scientists could have become professional musicians, and they chose to go into science instead. And so, the symphony was just amazing.” And we talked about learning. I saw him every weekend growing up, and we talked about learning as learning everything, just a real thirst for exploring knowledge. And I thought that that's what graduate school was going to be like. And I went to the University of Chicago, and I was very excited that there was a great symphony there. There's the Art Institute in Chicago and wonderful museums, and I expected that my new colleagues would enjoy those aspects of the arts in the city. And not many did, and it was hugely, hugely disappointing that… how narrowly focused folks were in their own discipline. 

And so, when I got a faculty position in a School of Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences. It was like being in a playground, and it completely changed my approach to research. It completely changed my approach to teaching. And I don't have to worry about the seriousness of creativity or the seriousness of learning in the same way that I had in my career up until then. So, I think that's a big reason I've become more of a social scientist than natural scientist in my own research is because of that that freedom to play in a way to connect with colleagues that are doing more social science research. 

So, now my research is all in scholarship, of teaching and learning like Linnea and Smita and Nathalie were all saying. So I'll just, I'll just leave that. I think that's enough. There, I'll just leave that out there. Interdisciplinarity is awesome. That's the sum of it.

Sunita: Yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you.

Does anyone else have other comments that they'd like to offer in response to that question? Otherwise, I will pass it along. All right, wonderful! And I will pass it to Smita.

Smita: Okay. So, I wanted to ask you about the impact of your work. So, either, how does your creative teaching impact your students? Or how do you think teaching about creativity within your practice? And how do you think that impacts your students? Anyone want to go first? 

Linnea.

Linnea: I think it comes back to engagement because the creativity people are so.  You know, it's death by Powerpoint, and there's so much material, and the minute they see something that's just not traditionally what they're expecting. There's this little quiver of excitement and anticipation. And even if you know, you've managed to stumble and say something accidentally naughty and not react to it. That is still a way of engaging, and by engaging it's like opening up. And I think if they see that you're brave enough to be a bit silly or be a bit create, it doesn't, doesn't necessarily mean silly, but be creative and try different approaches to get to the same problem. It encourages them to feel more confident, to try the same thing and realize that this is part of academia. It's not “You have to memorize something from a textbook.” You can actually learn something and then explore it and test it and poke it and wiggle it and try to try to make sense of it for yourself. So, I think that's what your question was. Smitha again, I've lost the plot. Okay.

Smita: It's a good thing I like your plots whether you lose them or not. Anyone else want to chime in?

Becca: This is Becca, and I'll chime in. So, I am currently teaching a class where students are conducting their own research projects. So, it's a class of 24 students dive into the Paleobiology database, which is an online database of fossils throughout the world and through time. They come up with their own research questions and learn some statistics to analyze the data that they've downloaded, and then jump into the primary literature. So, this is to write a paper, and this is all in 10 weeks. None of them have a background in paleontology. So, it's very...it's a whirlwind and intense course, and it's so much fun. And what I found my students reflecting on this term is how much creativity they used in coming up with their research questions. And they've really talked about how much iteration there's been in coming up with, you know, first a topic and then narrowing it down to a particular research question, and then, seeing that they don't have the data to answer that particular question, or that question can't be answered with any of the statistical tests that we've learned in the course. And, so, they have to reframe it. And this iterative cycle. It's like, wow, they are seeing the creativity in science. And I just love that. 

And I want to tie that back to one time when I met with the consultants in our in our writing center. We have peer consultants who staff our writing center that helps other students with the papers and other forms of communication that they are working on. And I wanted to teach the peer consultants about “what does a scientific paper look like?” because it follows this very rigid format. And one of the consultants raised their hand and asked, “Well, where's the creativity in this kind of writing?” And it was a wonderful question, because I was emphasizing this template, this formulaic style of writing, and it's like, ah! it comes in forming the research question, and it comes in making an argument to interpret why you got the results that you did, and it was… I don't know that I had realized that that's where the creativity was in this particular course until the consultant had asked me that question. And, so, it's really neat to go from that moment to this particular term, where students are seeing the creativity in articulating their research questions.

Nathalie: I love this so much.

Smita: Yeah, yeah.

Sunita: Same, I think we all have something to say.

Smita: Okay.

Nathalie: We thought you were.

Smita: Comment on that. And I think everyone's partly just in awe of this, like, life-changing moment that you had so. And, Sunita, do you want to add anything.

Sunita: Well, I was just thinking, I teach a translational research class for nursing students. So, the idea of, like, looking at the evidence being able to appraise it and then translate that into practice, guidelines or health policy. So how we use the things created in academic settings or labs in real life work with humans. For many years that class has been taught in a very formulaic way of you know, this is how you construct a proper academic paper, lots of focus on the APA formatting, things like that. But ultimately, for many people who are not planning on pursuing academic work. So, there was a lot of emphasis placed on pieces of that product that felt much more about like the i's and the t's, and not necessarily about the creativity. 

And so, when I've been reconstructing that assignment, we've been, I've been thinking a lot about how to bring creativity to each section. And I love that what you just said about, like, the creativity is in the prompt or the research question and in the argument. And that's a lot of what I focus on with them. Is that, like, this is where your voice is. And I, wouldn’t say, battle, but have had had active conversations with faculty who are very resistant to the utilization of large language models, and AI. And I feel very strongly that those models will never replace the creative parts of the work.  They can replace the mechanical pieces which are really the parts that I'm not super concerned about, anyway, because that's not the translation. And, so, I got into this conversation with someone over the summer about how the prompt, for, say, ChatGPT or copilot, or any of these platforms is the that is the intellectual property that is the creativity. And so, I'm just sort of struck by that similarity. And what you just said, Becca, and how it reinforces the way that I teach this class. But it's interesting. I mean, we just had a faculty meeting about it yesterday, and it was a lot of expressions of frustration with my viewpoint around the utilization of large language models people how to write academically, and also creatively, and it makes me think that the focus is still on the creation of a staid academic product, in my opinion, and not necessarily in emphasizing the creative translational aspect, the critical thinking aspect which AI cannot replace.

So, when I think about the impact on students, I'm like, that's to me. That's actually what I'm here for is to teach them to translate and to be creative thinkers. And so, I think the impact of this is to do the thing that I'm being paid to do. But I definitely meet with resistance throughout that so, and I will say my own N of probably the 60 or 70, having restructured some assignments and getting feedback from students, is, they feel, a lot more confident writing when they know that the emphasis is on their voice.  And us eliciting their voice as opposed to focus on the mechanical aspects of writing.

Smita: Yeah. And Nathalie.

Nathalie: It's really interesting. I want to pick up on that moment as well of what you said, Becca, about the research question being the creative bit, because I actually even designed a game, how to develop your research question. Linnea and Smita have played with their students. And I never made the connection. Yeah, that is the creative part. And that also explains why in the research methods course, this is the part we spend the most time on.  And my students have, the biggest problem with developing is developing that research question that's just right. And yeah, and never made a connection. So, thank you for that learning today.

Smita: Linnea.

Linnea: I just want to chime in here because I think what I'm hearing, and or maybe what's becoming clearer to me is this creativity. Giving this voice to the students instead of this just mechanical repetition, and that that critical thinking, it just makes it more authentic. The learning becomes genuine going in, and they process it, and it's coming out in a way that makes so much more sense. And Smita has already shown this in her…the way she's actually done, and allowed her students to express themselves. And, she showed me the work that they were producing. It's phenomenal, and it looks like…and I think, as Smitha you found out just from the discussions that…they seem to have understood it at a deeper level than just a normal assignment. And it's that that process of creativity that has actually helped more authentic and deeper learning. So, it's amazing how this word creative triggers off in my mind all these fantastic, positive outcomes. It's so exciting.

Smita: Yeah, it's true. And I think you're right. Like, I'm so impressed with the things that students have created in my lab and for their assignments. I've had everything from embroidery with, like My Neighbor Totoro, decorating the chemical concepts. I've had poetry. I've had anthropomorphized poetry as well, so things written from the point of view of the molecule I got that last year, and bringing that into topic we had before, I've had cakes as well. There's so many different ways that people have and chosen to communicate. And it's just really fascinating, I think, as an educator as well, it's been a great impact for me, because obviously, it's more entertaining for me to do my marking now. And I'd also just add, like some of the impact like, although it has been positive, I think at first there was a bit of maybe shock and maybe a bit of confusion. When I like flip this around and gave students a choice, because often in higher education things are so prescriptive about what they must do to achieve this, what the outlines can be—very box ticking. So, this opportunity for them to actually for once have a choice and a bit of freedom. To express themselves was a bit unexpected for them, I think, but…and the feedback I had was that they did actually enjoy that. And once they got over the shock of it. So, it's been really exciting to be on this journey.

So, I think Linnea had a question next as well.

Linnea: So. As I said, I'm still just…I'm resonating with excitement over everything that's being discussed here, and my brain is being stretched in so many wonderful ways. So, I'm just gonna have to have a cup of tea and try to pull it all back in when we're finished here. But the question I think we're finishing on was, what's a favorite memory of when you created something? Does that memory impact your teaching? And if so, how does it do so? So, who would like to start?

Okay, Becca.

Becca: I've really been looking forward to this question, so thank you for asking it, Linnea. You know I'm looking at Nathalie, and behind her is this blanket that her mother-in-law crocheted, and I have on my lap a blanket that I crocheted. And one of my favorite memories of a creative moment was actually crocheting a blanket for my sister-in-law when she and her spouse, when they got married. And as a wedding present, and what was so interesting about it was that I purchased a kit, and the kit came with videos for how to do everything. And so, I was learning these crochet techniques that I'd never thought of, that I'd never encountered before. It was by far the most advanced thing that I'd made. I could see every single flaw in it but the overall blanket I still just loved. And it was this… making it was this combination of following instructions and interpreting them. And I needed that structure to make something so awesome. Right? I'm not at a point in my crochet where I can design my own pattern and make something that's so wonderful as that. 

And the way this impacts my teaching is that I feel like my job as the instructor is to provide my students with the structure they need to flourish. So, that's what I'm what I'm trying to do. That's how I emulate my own process and making that blanket.

Linnea: Sorry I was just. I forget to ask other people. I just sit here, and I just, like, wow. So, anybody else care to chime in? Nathalie.

Nathalie: For me. It's not actually just one thing. So, I create a lot. So, I also do knitting and crocheting and art and poetry. And so, it's more. I don't know if you've heard about them from New Zealand is the artist academic. I can share the links later, and it's about really thinking about how we think about our creative practices and influencing. So, it's all about that question and for me, it's more as I go on in my own creative practice, it's almost like it's a it's a constant dialogue of what I'm learning, and there's constantly things where I'm going, “Oh, I might use this”, or “I might try this.” So it's more of a process rather than one, you know, like, rather than one incident. Yeah.

Linnea: Nathalie, I know you've if there's anything with creativity in it, you're all over it. So, you're and actually, what's fantastic about Nathalie is her enthusiasm, her ability, and her ability to support colleagues  to take that first very brave step forward into exploring something they might not feel confident in. She's amazing. And I think, thanks to her, Smita and I are able to sort of be on the journey we're on, and it wouldn't have happened without her. So just a big shout out to Nathalie. Sorry. There's a bit of a love fest going on here.

Nathalie: Yeah, thank you so much.

Linnea: So, I speak the truth. Sunita, did you want to share anything?

Sunita: Sure. Gosh! I think like Nathalie, there's a lot of memories. I'm thinking about one in particular teaching nursing students. And it was a social justice and healthcare course, so more social science oriented. But with that course, we worked on group poetry in response to some of the material we were addressing in that course. And specifically thinking about trauma, how it affects our patients, and also that sort of bi-directional nature of that for providers and patients alike. And so, they…we did an exercise where they had just response words on their own. And then they took those words into small pairs or groups, and then created a line, found some commonality, and created a line together. And then we took all the lines from around the classroom and assembled them, and then they, we, and then on the board, and then people moved lines up and down. Some people in response decided to edit their lines, seeing them now in relationship with other people. And, I just remember that process of watching them turn their own responses into something really collaborative. And so that, like, the physical creation of that, was really sweet. But also, afterwards, and we had it all complete. Just this really quiet hush in the room. So, we read it out loud together. And then a few people opted to read it out loud, and then just we just sat with it. And it was a really beautiful, quiet, mindful, maybe meditative moment. And the awe that some people felt that they had created something like that, also. 

You know, these are people who don't fancy themselves as poets or creative people. And to think, “oh, this, this is how this happens,” you know, in connection with our humanity and with other people. And it was just very it.

I've done exercises like this. But that particular memory was very influential for me, and reminding me, yes, this is really important. It's how it affects me. It's what makes it possible for me to keep doing the work I do. And so, even when I see them. When I see students struggling with the idea of it, I come back to that memory because I know how it changes us.

Linnea: I think we have to sit with that, and just sort of feel that as well. That's very powerful. Has everybody contributed? Smita.

Smita: How, if I have to go after that contribution? I've been sitting here panicking, thinking “Oh, no! What am I gonna say?” 

I've come up with a really lame idea, lame, like, thought. So, I'm just thinking, like, you're talking about your crocheting and all this arty stuff I was like, what do I do? What do I even do? That's creative. So, I like speaking quite a lot.  And I'm just like really stretching here looking for any examples. 

But I suddenly remembered last month I'd found, like my bottle of maple syrup which I'd lost. I'd lost managed to lose my maple syrup bottle because I'm very unorganized, and my pantry is a mess. It had been lost for several years, and I was, like, happy I'd finally found it, but I opened it up, and it is slightly fizzy and fermented. But it was like, too…I don't want…I don't want to give up on it. You know that way where you've got something, and you're not ready to like totally bin the idea of it. So, I thought I was very determined. I'm gonna use this. I'm gonna find a way I can use this slightly fermented syrup. So, I decided I'll make an apple pie because it was autumn and had lots of in season windfall apples from my neighbour to use up as well, and it actually turned out to be one of the best apple pies I've ever made. And I was just like so happy afterwards, thinking I mean, I was on the verge of chucking this fermented syrup in the bin. But, actually, I used it. I hadn't given up on it, and it just created something really nice and also unexpected. So, I guess from there I would say, the lesson to take away is like. Even if you're about to give up on something, it's worth just kind of giving something a shot and seeing what happens.

Linnea: I think that's awesome. I think you should call it your champagne syrup and sell it for quadruple the amount.

Smita: Exactly. It probably went up in value after that fermentation process.

Linnea: So, I think, okay. So now I have to go after all of you. So, thanks a lot, really appreciate no pressure here. And of course, thinking about things in advance. I can't read. I can't do that. But I was thinking, what's a favorite memory when we created something, and I think there's so many things that our project students have created that I sit back, and I am just in awe that these students have started off not knowing anything about ChemEd about SoTL. And I look at what they've made, and then Smita and I sit there. We're just thinking “Oh, my gosh, we're so lucky they're doing this because we're completely incapable of producing anything this good.” But they've dragged us with them. And, just to just to think about how they've stitched together technologies and thinking about the student experience and making things engaging and removing fear and instilling joy in their work. It's I mean, there's things we go through, and we just giggle every time we see they've done it. But it's done with the right reasons behind it. So, it makes it quite powerful. So, I think that's something that I'm always…It brings me joy when I see things like that and recall what people have done. And you know my tiny role in that and getting to work with Smita. 

But I think this memory, what it does is it just sort of makes…I am constantly thinking of the how will students respond to this, and how will they help change it? And how will they make me a better person for understanding it? So, it’s that constant, sort of, their creativity feeds off mine, feeds off Smita, feeds off this…and just to know that I'm never there. But there's always this potential for things to become really fun and really exciting. And God knows where we're going to go with it. But that's part of the part of the journey, and I think that's where creativity just…it brings a whole nother level to Academia that we wouldn't have. Well, I would think it's very boring. So that's my roundup of that. 

So, back to Becca to steer us in the right direction.

Becca: Yeah, thank you all. This has been just an incredibly wonderful informative, creative, joyous conversation. And we've been taking notes in the chat as we've been talking, so that…because there are just so many themes that we're noticing and what we're saying, we can't help but analyze what we're what we're talking about. But, I hope that this is the first of many conversations that we can have. I also really hope that we have the opportunity to meet in person sometime, because this has just been lovely, and I feel so much affection for all of you. So, thank you for joining me, and we'll be in touch.