Johnny’s in College, Little Franklin’s on the Way:

When The Fantastic Four Unfolded in Real Time

Chris Tolworthy

The official view is that Marvel Comics took place in more or less real time until 1968.

On the 8th of November 2010, on his Formspring Tumblr account, Tom Brevoort stated unequivocally that Franklin is eight years old and it has been thirteen years since Fantastic Four No. 1 – thirteen years, that is, in Marvel time. In other words, five years passed between FF #1 (published late 1961) and the FF Annual #6 (published early 1968), when, in real time, six and a half years had passed. However, the art and other evidence suggests that Franklin may be around age six [More about this in another context – Ed.], indicating that seven of the thirteen Marvel years took place between 1961 and 1968. A couple of years later, Brevoort approached the question in a different way, stating it even more clearly:

“In the earliest days, Stan didn’t have any use for anything beyond the broadest version of continuity. And it’s no wonder—he didn’t think these new characters would last for five years when he started, let alone fifty. So he had the characters aging more or less in real time, and it was only after seven or eight years that he started to realize that he needed to slow things down in order to allow for greater longevity.”

A close examination of the stories confirms this assertion. Until 1968 at least, Marvel comics took place in real time. Here I’ll use the Fantastic Four as a detailed example, but you could also chart Spider-Man’s progress through high school and reach a similar conclusion. Are you ready? Let’s fire up Dr Doom’s time machine and go back to the very beginning – back to 1961....

1961

The events of The Fantastic Four No. 1 are clearly linked to the space race and the Cold War. This was hardly surprising, given that the comic was plotted in the month that Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space, and went on sale the month the Berlin Wall went up. The comic existed in the real world, in real time, and fans loved it!

In 1971 (FF #126), it was stated that the team’s origin took place in 1961:

In 1975 (FF #160), it was again stated that the events of Issue 1 took place in 1961:

1962

In 1962, Johnny explicitly states it is 1962:

Issue 4 illustrates how the stories were always moving forwards. Here we see the return of the Submariner, last seen in Sub-Mariner No. 42, dated October 1955. That was just just seven years earlier, but the sub-mariner was from a different age. If we look forward another seven years, to 1969, the world was again completely different. Back then time passed very quickly. So they explained how the Submariner had lost his memory some time before the nuclear tests of the 1950s (more real-time references). A similar thing happened in the Avengers when Captain America returned. This was less than twenty years after World War II, but the real time delay was enough for Stan Lee to invent a “frozen in ice” story to explain the long delay. A similar explanation was used for the return of the original Human Torch in the FF Annual #4. Back then, it was unacceptable for a hero to remain unchanged for twenty years without a serious explanation! These days, the heroes have remained unchanged for thirty years and nobody cares anymore.

In Issue 8, Johnny mentions it is 1962. Issue 9 starts with the FF becoming bankrupt. This was written in 1962, coinciding with a real-world stock-market crisis. Then, our heroes visit Hollywood, and on pages 6 and 7 they appear in the same frames as famous celebrities from 1962.

Johnny Storm’s age increases each year

As we continue, we see that Johnny’s age increases by one year every year.

If Johnny Storm turned seventeen in 1962 or the early weeks of 1963 (depending on how one interprets the passage from Issue 11 discussed in the Team’s Ages appendix below), then in 1963 he was seventeen or eighteen. We can see the passing of time in his own comic, Strange Tales. In 1963, Johnny has exams and says he resents still having to go to school. In Strange Tales No. 119, page 2, Reed refers to Johnny’s next “summer vacation,” indicating that Reed expects him to continue his schooling.

FF #52 Strange Tales #110

Strange Tales #119 FF #44

Soon after this, we stop hearing of Johnny’s school work. Instead, he is seen lazing around the house, dating Dorrie Evans, racing cars, bowling or playing golf. Previously, his exam pressures were building up, yet now he has plenty of time. The obvious conclusion is that Johnny graduated from high school but refrained from immediately entering a post-secondary program. How much time? The comics’ internal chronology (see references above to “last year” and “a few months ago”) suggest that this was quite some time. Students cannot take just a month or two off – it is an entire semester or nothing. Besides, it is very common for a student to take a gap year. So we can conclude, based on the comics, that Johnny Storm took a whole year away from school in 1964, when he was eighteen or nineteen.

This was not yet a big problem. The slippage was only slight and could easily be made up in a later story. More importantly, the stories were incredibly good, so we can overlook the fact that they have fewer real-world connections. But the writing was on the wall: the realism was weakening.

1963

In Strange Tales No. 109, Johnny explicitly states it is 1963:

The Fantastic Four No. 11 has the FF respond to letters from their readers. They very clearly live in the same world and same time frame. Issue 1 is described as being “a year ago” (FF #1 was at the very end of 1961), and Issue 6 was “a few months ago.”

We also learn that Reed and Ben fought in World War II. And the comic is very specific: Ben was a marine fighter ace who fought over Okinawa and Guadalcanal, and appeared in the newspapers. Reed worked for the underground, for the O.S.S., and dreamt of his childhood sweetheart, Susan Storm. These people were not timeless icons; they felt like real-life people, living in the real world, and this is what made their adventures more exciting than other comics.

Issue 17 has a cameo from president John F. Kennedy, and page 12 has his counterparts in Russia. Then Issue 19 refers to Issue 5 as “more than a year ago” (exactly a year ago would have been Issue 7).

1964

The Fantastic Four No. 28 contains the superteam’s first battle with the X-Men. As so often happens in these issues, the FF learn about current events by reading the newspaper, emphasizing both the links with the real world and the fact that everything back then was always changing. Issue 33 begins with the headline “SCENE: F.F. HEADQUARTERS! TIME: NOW!” The story involves an undersea specimen being sent from the Coast Guard for Reed to study, and soon Ben is consulting an encyclopedia to discover what it is. The Hate Monger story includes a reference to an underground tunneling machine, with a note from the editor stating that the Russians are actually developing such a thing in the real world. Everything acts to tie the FF into the real and familiar world of the readers, which makes the amazing adventures seem even more amazing.

In Strange Tales No. 127 (December 1964, on sale in September), we see that Issue 118 (just nine issues earlier) took place “last year,” and Issue 124 occurred “a few months ago.” Clearly this epic story is unfolding in real time.

This is confirmed by the text. In previous issues, the Wizard was twice sent to jail, and each time he “had plenty of time to plan” and was able to act like a model prisoner for “long enough” to lull the authorities into complacency. Then he escaped and planned his next campaign against the Torch, all within the space of a few issues (Nos. 102-105, 106-110, and then 110-118). If this is not happening in real time, there simply isn’t enough time for the events to unfold.

In Fantastic Four No. 28 (July 1964), Strange Tales No. 120 (May 1964) is described as “a few months ago” (see below, left). In FF #32 (November 1964), FF #18 (the Super Skrull, September 1963) is described as “last year” (see below, right).

Note how the characters used to remember previous battles, and each battle was highly significant, because every year was different, everything was changing, most of the events were new. Today, it’s just “Ho hum, looks like it’s time to fight the Hulk for the 267th time. Or maybe it’s Dr Doom’s turn again. Yawn.”

And what else happened in 1964? Oh yes. The Torch and The Thing met The Beatles.

1965

The big event of 1965 is the wedding of Sue Storm and Reed Richards. Here we have real-world development: two characters who are in love get engaged and are married! And Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, the writers of the comic in real life, come to the wedding!

In FF #44, Issue 35 (nine months earlier) is referred to as “last winter,” and also as “many months ago.”

The six issues between Issues 44 and 50 (the Inhumans and Galactus) take place in probably much less than six months, though long enough for Crystal and Johnny to meet and fall in love (and this was real love, and not just another Dorrie Evans). However, the following two issues, 51 and 52, cover far more than two months, so a real time average is maintained:

• • In FF #50, Johnny starts college with many other new students, so he is clearly following the conventional academic year.

  • By FF #52, just two real-world months later, he is studying for a series of exams and looking forward to the vacation. This appears to be a major vacation, as he is able to take his new friend with him on a trip to Africa. And the fact that he brings Wyatt suggests they have spent a long time becoming friends.

Johnny’s age

Johnny should be aged nineteen or twenty in 1965, and should enroll in college after his gap year. In Issue 44, Johnny indicates that he intended to enroll in college that year, but failed to do so because the Fantastic Four was so busy. It appears that Johnny graduated high school in 1963 or ’64, intended to have the 1963/64 (or 1964/65) academic year as a gap year, but ended up having (at least) two gap years. We now see Johnny driving cars and he physically appears to be an adult.

Johnny’s 20th birthday

In FF #47, Sue refers to Johnny as a teenager, and he replies that when he’s fifty she will still think of him as a teenager. This is an example of where real time adds richness to the story. Issue 11 indicates that Johnny had just turned seventeen, so in Issue 47 (36 issues later) he should have just turned twenty. However, #46 is part of a continuous story that began in #44, so Johnny would just be approaching his 20th birthday. So Sue is playfully reminding him that he’s still a teenager, and Johnny is saying in effect, “I’m practically twenty, but it doesn’t matter because when I’m fifty you’ll still treat me like a child.”

1966

In FF #54, Johnny states that it is 1966.

In Issue 59 (dated March 1967, on sale in late 1966), we are specifically told that Wyatt drove a Ferrari Dino V-6 Berlinetta and that it is very expensive.

According to the Ferrari web site, this was one of the most influential models ever, and was unveiled at the 1965 Paris motor show. The Paris show takes place every two years, in September. and it takes a little while for orders to be delivered, so it would have started to appear in America in 1966. Indeed, everything points to this being the defining car of 1966 and no other year, firmly fixing this story to the real world.

Other developments

It’s not only Johnny who grows and changes. Reed changes just as much. Four years earlier, he was a respectable pipe-smoking, tweed-suited university figure. Then, four years later, he’s a man of action! (If it looks like he’s gotten younger, that’s because stretchy skin doesn’t wrinkle!) Ben’s personality and appearance have changed dramatically. Just compare the careless violence of the first few issues with the teddy bear he became. Sue has developed from air-headed socialite to mother figure. Even the Baxter Building has changed – from an ordinary office block to almost a robot in its own right.

Galactus in 1966

Nineteen Sixty-Six was dominated by Galactus. The Galactus saga has often been imitated and retold, but all the retellings have been forgettable. Perhaps this is because the saga is so clearly rooted in the mid 1960s. Just look at the climax to the Galactus trilogy, in Issue 50. The cover makes space for the fact that Johnny Storm begins college. Clearly the passage of time is rather important!

1969

A close reading shows that all the issues up until those numbered in the 70s (when Sue is pregnant) take place with very few gaps in between. We cannot then have a long ‘catch-up-with-real-time’ gap because Sue is then pregnant, and we cannot have a pregnancy lasting two years! So real time becomes harder to believe from about Issue 60 onward (i.e., after 1966). However, the gap between Marvel time and real time is still very small, and the events of these issues take place with such energy that most readers probably did not notice. The last major real-time event in the 1960s takes place in 1969, when the Fantastic Four help Neal Armstrong get safely to the moon. (Issue 98 was dated 1970, but was probably on sale in late 1969.) If we do not pay close attention, we could still believe that events maybe happened in real time until that point, but after that the problems just mount up. There are occasional real-time references for the next ten years, but these are outnumbered by the obvious anachronisms.

The same analysis can be done for other titles

The same examination could be made of other titles. For example, in X-Men No. 54, in 1968, Scott and the X-Men take Alex out for drinks after his graduation. The drinking age in New York State at the time was 21, and Scott is older than Alex. Scott was seventeen in 1963, so he was 22 in 1968. If any less time had passed, then his younger brother would be under 21 and unable to drink.

Another example is this footnote in Incredible HULK No. 135 (January 1971) by scripter Roy Thomas:

“Roy’s Theory of Relativity: Ever since that infamous day in Avengers #9 (1964) when Kang first invaded our century, his rate of time-flow has gone forward at the same speed as ours – so that, just as seven years have passed for Kang since then, it is now seven years later for us, as well! See you in the letters-pages! --Rascally”

As Tony of The Wastebasket blog points out:

“The story specifically notes 1964 as the year the Avengers were formed and the ‘present’ as being 1971. So it seems that Roy Thomas was operating under the assumption that the Marvel Universe was moving forward in real-time.”

The remaining years fit into just five “real” years.

As Tom Brevoort implied, later Marvel years can be compressed into only a few real years. Whereas early comics would refer to previous issues as “months ago,” later stories usually happen without a break. The various attempts to map Marvel time onto real time indicate that everything from the end of real time (1968) to the late 1980s (in real time) would fit into five years or thereabouts. At that point, serious continuity ended. In other words, the Marvel Universe ended, in real time, around 1973, and then Marvel published those stories over the next few years.

1973

And this is the splash page from Uncanny X-Men No. 138 (1980):

It may be symbolic that real time appeared mainly on grave stones. Real time was dying.

The Fantastic Four featured real dates until 1989

The Fantastic Four age by thirteen years, but their stories take place on real, fixed dates over their 28 calendar years, and earlier. In 1976 they referred to 1961, and in 1980 they knew it was 1980:

Dates were fixed as late as the period I refer to as ‘Act 5’ (1987-88), in FF #309 for example. In 1987, the space shuttles are grounded as a result of the Challenger disaster of 1986. This is reflected in the story, and in that same issue Ben refers to fighting in “the big one” – World War II – a fact established back in Issue 11. But after 1991, there is a different Ben who does not have that experience.

Why does Ben notice that he is aging more slowly than the people around him? According to some, blame young Franklin. He can apparently control time and create universes.

Note that this is not just some slip by Steve Englehart: John Byrne’s last story is about Marvel time, and in his second to last story he anchors Nick Fury’s teenage years to 1936. Byrne has Sue Richards state that she was not born in 1936, but she also says she was only 12 years old when Reed was in college. This allows for Reed being active in WWII (see FF #11), without confusing new readers. Regardless of what Byrne may have intended, those are the facts as presented in his comic.

Post 1989: the stories detach from the real world

Time started breaking in 1989. By 1991, time was in chaos and the coherent Marvel Universe was dead. In the 1998 FF annual for example, The Thing can visit the real-time Fantastic Four and see that they are different people.

This illustrates the difference between a stretching timescale and a sliding timescale. Stretching time means the characters themselves age slowly but do not notice: they are still anchored in the real world. Sliding time means that dates for events constantly change: all anchors to the real world are broken except the present day, and without a history the present is meaningless. In the sliding timescale (the Franklinverse) dates are usually not mentioned at all, characters often grow younger, and continuity is treated as a problem and best ignored.

Conclusion

That is how the Marvel Universe’s continuity began, and how it no longer exists. [For how it ended, stay tuned, O true believers! – Ed.]

Maybe one day, the Fantastic Four will return to the real world. Maybe one day we will again have characters that develop, stories that are relevant to the present day, and events that have real significance. But until that day, we shall always have the reprints.

The Team’s Ages

This might be a good time to look at the team’s ages. The key text is the letters page in Fantastic Four No. 11:

Note the present tense for Reed, Ben and Sue (they “are” their said ages) and the past tense for Johnny (he “was just seventeen”). This suggests that Johnny has just had a birthday. FF #11 is dated February 1963, but would have been on sale in December 1962; so we can conclude that:

• • Johnny

  • Johnny is “just seventeen” in Issue 11, which means he was born probably in November 1945 (possibly three months earlier if the letter’s answer refers to the time of typing) if we are counting from the date of publication (December 1962). If we are to use the cover date (February 1963) as the starting point, however, then he must have been born sometime in the early weeks of 1946. Stan Lee’s synopsis for Issue 1 (published in FF #358 in 1991) states that Johnny was intended to be seventeen from the start (i.e., 1961). This may have been the initial plan, but it was not reflected in the comics. Johnny was often shown fixing cars (e.g., in Issues 1 and 4) but was never shown driving them, indicating that he was too young. So while Stan may have wanted him to be seventeen, Jack’s story showed him to be sixteen or younger. This creates more dramatic tension: a wider range of ages, and it becomes more likely that Johnny would read the comic books of the time (as he is shown in Issues 4 and 10). It also makes it easier to understand his youthful enthusiasm and recklessness, and why he considers fixing cars to be so exciting whereas an older youth would see it as merely work.

  • Reed and Ben

  • Reed and Ben are in the 36 to 39 range, and were thus born between 1923 and 1926. This makes them at least 21 when WWII ended, consistent with fighting in the war (in FF #11), and Ben being a pilot. Ben is two years older, as FF #11 states that he fought in Guadalcanal, which places him as an air ace in 1942-43. Note that Ben’s rocky skin and Reed’s elastic skin disguise their true age; but neither make any mention of aging toward the end, so this supports them being on the younger end of the scale. However, they were de-aged in FF #214, so all bets are off. The main reason for assigning them the youngest possible age is to make things simple: it prevents having to explain to shocked younger readers who cannot imagine a 56-year old doing anything physical. Reed and Ben met at college, so this argues for them being the same age.

  • Sue

  • Sue is “in her twenties” in 1962, and therefore was born between 1932 and 1941. But in FF #291 she visits 1936 and says, “I won’t be born til...” – and then doesn’t give a date, which implies that her birth date must be after 1936. So it must be between 1937-1941. She says her parents are just children here: she could mean teenagers, and people often married very young during the war era, so it is very possible. But that puts her birth at the latest possible date to be in her twenties in 1961: i.e., born in 1941, and therefore twenty in 1961 – which makes her a little over half Reed’s age (he was around 38)! Yet FF #11 states that they lived nearby as children. FF #291 takes place entirely in a dream. But for some reason, Sue wants to believe she is much younger.

Sue’s real age

In the dream found in Issue 291, Sue implies that she was twenty in 1961, when Reed was in his late thirties. This dream contradicts what Reed has said about their being children together. All the evidence indicates that there is a very simple reason: Johnny is actually Sue’s son, born when she was age sixteen – something which would have been a social scandal. But how could a 31-year old get away with claiming to be a young twenty-something? Sue was an expert at looking much younger than her calendar age:

• 1. Her unusual beauty. Her excellent genes means she always looked young.

  2. An obsession with cosmetics. This is backed by Reed’s wealth, her fame, and her own family’s comfortable background. She will have the best people in the world working on her.

  3. Her extreme privacy. The public didn’t know her until she was 31, and so nobody knew her age, and she thus allowed them to think that she was “somewhere in her twenties.”

  4. Forcefields. In later years, Sue appears to use her forcefield permanently and unconsciously. In FF #38 we learn that her forcefield automatically kicks in when needed, so we know that with practice she does not need to think of it consciously. In another issue (sorry, I forgot the reference) it is mentioned that her forcefield will automatically stop a bullet, even when she’s not expecting it, so it routinely hugs her body. By 232 it seems clear that she is using it to enhance her bust (see the notes to FF Nos. 231 and 232).

  5. The de-aging ray. In her forties, her body was de-aged to about age 28 by the Skrull ray (see FF #214) – the greatest makeover of all!

The desire to look young is one of many classic feminine stereotypes represented by Sue, and has serious real-world reasons. For millennia, older women have been ignored by men in favor of younger models; and at the other end of the scale, teenage girls who got pregnant (usually against their wishes) had to pretend an unwanted child was a sibling, and – if necessary – pretend to be older in order to maintain the illusion.

Ages: conclusion

So the most likely ages are:

• • Johnny was born between November 1945 and February 1946.

  • Reed and Ben were probably born in 1926.

  • Sue was most likely born in 1929 or 1930.

  • In FF #270 Alicia says she was nineteen when she met Ben. She was chosen because of her resemblance to Sue, so Sue cannot have been much older. This gives us Alicia’s age and also confirms Sue’s, or at least the age Sue attempts to appear.

Time progressed normally until Franklin’s birth in mid 1968. At that point their aging slowed considerably, probably only adding six years (possibly seven) before the ‘Franklinverse’ took over and all connection with real time was lost.

Real-world dates

Quick summary: 1961 through 1968 is in real time; 1969 through 1989 covers only four comic years.

How dates are calculated:

The story was published over 28 years, but only takes around half that time. There are four ways to approach the problem:

• 1. Ignore it. This means never asking questions. This means missing out all the best stuff.

  2. Slide it. The official position is ‘Marvel time’, the sliding time scale. The origin story is always thirteen years ago, and the past is constantly revised. This means losing all the contemporary details, but the stories follow the zeitgeist of the time so closely that there is very little left.

  3. Stretch it. Until 1968 stories took place in real time. After the birth of Franklin, they age slowly but do not notice. This allows us to continue to connect modern comics to the real world. This is the explanation used in fourth-wall-breaking stories like those involving She-Hulk.

  4. Anchor it. The Original Marvel Universe blog, or OMU, anchors all stories in 1961. Everything then takes place in the next thirteen or so years – e.g., 1991 is really 1973; references to Ronald Reagan are really references to Richard Nixon.

Our preferred choice depends on our attitude to realism.

• 1. Ignore it: If we don’t care then we don’t care. Period.

  2. Slide it. If we only care a little then the sliding scale works – as long as we don’t look closely.

  3. Stretch it. If realism is essential, then slow aging fits with everything. No stories need to be changed, although some stories may be mis-reported. This is mostly a problem for other comics.

  4. Anchor it. If you want maximum realism but also want to accept other comics, then some changes are inevitable. To minimize changes you may need to change the dates just once, and reject everything after 1991.

On this website, realism is everything. So I choose the stretching method. The most compressed dates are toward the end of what I refer to as ‘Act 4’. [For more information on these dates, O pilgrims, be sure to tune in to a future issue of The Comics Decoder, when Marvel Time vs. real time is discussed in more detail – Ed.]

Summary of ages

Comics images copyright 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1977, 1980, 1987 and 1998 Marvel Entertainment Group.