Senator Barnes argues to strike the words "unborn child" from a bill that is about "unborn children."
1. Webster's dictionary defines words NOT terms (such as "unborn child").
2. Barnes refers to medical terminology, but uses an ordinary dictionary to back her point.
3. The Definitions section in legislation is used to define terms as used in a particular bill, and is not dependent on how the term may be commonly defined.
4. Barnes shows that she is unaware of the term "unborn child" as already used in federal law:
The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (U.S. Pub. L. 108-212) enshrines the words "Unborn Children"into law: An Act To amend title 18, United States Code, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice to protect unborn children from assault and murder, and for other purposes."
Here is the full recording of her comments with the objection by Senator Calvo. The full text is below.
BILL 54-30, LEGISLATIVE SESSION, 11/26/10 - COMMENTS OF SENATOR TINA MUNA BARNES REGARDING USE OF THE TERM “UNBORN CHILD”
SPEAKER: Senator Muna Barnes you are recognized.
BARNES: Si Yuus Maase, Madame Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of this bill. And it’s no secret that when this bill first came to play that i supported this effort and it’s no secret that when i was...when we had...uh...youth month last year and the year before, one of the topics of my youth representative at that time was abor...a bill similar to this effort, something that was talked about by the youth represen...representative representing me for that day something that where I had brought to the attention that I think as we have this mock session for you, I think it’s important that you decide what kind of legislation you would like to introduce.
When this information came to play, I said do you know what you’re talking about? And of course each year that this bill - that this proposed legislation came to play - I said they must be...there must be a lot of conversation within the school in reference to this issue. And I said to the youth representative: “Senator, if you really feel that this bill should go through then I will support that efforts and have the staff work on it since you’re the senator. And she said it would be most appreciated.
When that topic was talked about Madame Speaker, um, it really had a very sensitive, um, perspective from my personal point of view. And I said to myself that I was going to let, um, this young senator, um, work the issues, work with the committee, bring the pros and cons to play, and work it out. And when that bill was introduced, Madame Speaker, it had a lot of debate on the floor. And one of the main issues that came up was what they consider an unborn child. And again even when that was talked about I was very very reserved in sharing that information.
The student asked me, they said, “Senator Muna Barnes, are you pro-life or pro-choice? And I said. “You know its funny that you ask me that question. Its because if you had that debate on the floor when my father was alive there was a very heated conversation in the household one side being pro-life and one side being pro-choice.” Of course my dad was on the pro-choice side and my mom was on the pro-life side of the issue.
And she said, “But what do you think personally?” And I shared a perspective coming from me personally and what ordeal I had to go through, uh, when I was a very young teenager. And...and as we converse about the issue, I told her to be very careful about what is related based on morality, how you’re raised, and as far as your religious belief, and what is passed on today versus the case that was pending in front of the Supreme Court and what had actually eventually happened via the Supreme Court. Of course as we all know Roe versus Wade.
So she was very careful to note that, and Madame Speaker, if I’m not mistaken corrections were made to that legislation that was proposed by that time, Senator Muna Barnes’ representative. And as I look at this today, and I was just going over it, I said to everybody, I said in front of the Rotary Club, the Soroptomist club, my mom, that I was pro-life. And even knowing that I had an ordeal as a very young teenager and having to make that decision. I was confronted with the issue and how do I proceed on with my life. and, um, I took this bill very seriously well others didn’t take it. I took it because I knew it had a personal perspective to me and of course the choices that were made in my life. I have no regrets. [So, she feels the need to tell everyone that she had an abortion and has no regrets. Okay.]
But the one thing I told the young senator to do was to look at what was in today, I mean what was in versus Roe versus Wade and how those procedures had gone through and what actual definitions need to be put in place. [Okay, so after all that - her family history, her personal history, the long and winding road about youth day - we get to the reason she stood up in the first place.] And Madame Speaker, one that came to mind, even based on all the conversations that were up, was on page 3 number 13. What is a definition of an unborn child?
Madame Speaker there’s no definition to that today. [Never mind the grammatical train wreck of a sentence, the definition - which is the purpose of a definitions section in a bill, is right in front of her. But “there’s no definition to that today.”] There’s nothing in Webster, there’s nothing in...I don’t know if there’s, uh, one in, uh, the religious dictionary, but I know there’s not one.
And I wanna be very careful here because as we see it today even based on what has been included into Roe versus Wade. There’s no definition and I want to correct it for the record. there is a term for an embryo and there is a term for a fetus and the term for the fetus is literally said a vertebrae not yet born or hatched and the other one would be the fetus which would mean in the dictionary, Webster’s Dictionary, a living being at its earliest stages on development.
And as I support the measures of this bill I wanna make sure that if it goes up and it gets passed through this august body that there would be...no i guess maybe i’m just forseeing something that the opponents of this legislation would not have a reason to deliberate on this bill again for fear that there is no such meaning. So in that effort I’d like to move to delete, um, number 13 and replace it with the definition of what a fetus is and what an embryo is. And that would be my motion.
SPEAKER: And do you have...
BARNES: No I don’t, but if you wanna give me a minute
SPEAKER: We’re gonna need to get a definition
BARNES: I just did for the record based on Webster’s Dictionary
SPEAKER: I know, but we’re going to need to get it in writing so that everybody at least would be able to understand it.
BARNES: Well in that vein then I’ll change my motion and just say I move to delete number 13.
CALVO: Well my concern then is if you take the definition of unborn child and we’ve provided a definition, then that’s the whole essence of this bill.
BARNES: I have to remind the body that this is..I...that this is the main reason why...why it was sent to our attention as an august body that they would take this measure to court. And I’m just saying that the definition is that you either call it a fetus or an embryo, and those definitions were speth...specifically noted. There’s no such definition right now as an unborn child (points to dictionary).
CALVO: Then I rise to object Madame Speaker, and when she’s finished i will provide my reasons for the objection.
SPEAKER: Well no, she’s done to that...so on the motion then to delete number 13 on page 5.
CALVO: I’m very concerned...okay...I’m very concerned about...because if you are to look at the language of the bill, and where in many instances...the language is “the unborn child”, and within all those areas of specificity in ‘the unborn child”, if you were to take out the definition and the definition again ...and being, again it seems very clear to me...the offspring of human beings from conception to birth and that inter-lying period between the conception and the birth.
If you were to take that definition out, and then all references then to an unborn child...there is no definition. That is my concern. So if you were to take the definition of unborn child out, then I would assume that maybe what we need to do is put in new language and say it’s a fetus. But then in all areas of references to the unborn child replace it with...so...Madame Speaker, I tell you...Madame Speaker, for the instances just to insure that we don’t - I hate to say the reference, is throw the baby out with the bathwater. But if we were to take the definition of an unborn child then the replacement must be with a fetus and with the fetus a definition of a fetus and then of course all references to...you know will be...
SPEAKER: (speaks but unclear)
CALVO: But that’s not the amendment the author...the author’s made an amendment to take out unborn child and that would be problematic. So i would like to call for a recess...
BARNES: Madame Speaker i stand corrected on that motion. I proffer the first amendment was to delete the unborn child and put the definition of fetus or embryo and/or embryo.
SPEAKER: Yes that would...that was your first amendment and I had said that we want to put it down in writing so...we’ll take a brief recess.
(Returning from recess)
BARNES: Thank you very much Madame Speaker for the recess and for giving me the opportunity to work the definition out so on number 13 I would of course delete the unborn child definition and instead of unborn child put fetus in, then work the definition in so that would be my motion. And any sections relating to that would go...be fetus.
SPEAKER: On the amendment then without any objections
RESPICIO: ...(So we’re) replacing the term unborn child for fetus and keeping the same definition
SPEAKER: No, they already found a definition
RESPICIO: Thank you
SPEAKER: So on that amendment then without any objections so ordered.
NOTE: After all this, neither “unborn child” or “fetus” was included in the definitions section in the final draft of the bill which was sent to the Governor - which he vetoed.