I discovered today the 3rd Widdington pub. It has foxed me for a long time.

‘The Black Horse’. 

I would like to thank Anthony Gold, 

Back in Victorian times the Parish boundary extended north up to Shortgroves including the part of Newport to the east of the railway line. This pub was just to the east of the road bridge and is lived in by my golfing colleague. He tells me it closed around 1900, but the road going up hill towards ‘Ringers’ is still known as Black Horse Hill, and he has got a mug marked ‘Black Horse - Widdington’

( Of course you might have known this already?)

Anthony.

Anthony Gold

Hello Chris.

We were chatting about the BlackHorse pub after golf last Wednesday and as you can see from Gary’s Widdington website its provenance was, up to this week, not known.

You mentioned you had a mug transcribed with ‘The Black Horse - Widdington.’

Would it be possible for you to photograph this together with the pub building and give it to me next week when golfing together.

You have cleared up our mystery of the 3rd Widdington pub.

Kind regards.

Anthony.

Anthony Gold

Hello Gary.

Pretty sure it was  just a ‘beer house’, and he said it closed around 1900.

If you drive from Newport east past the fire station, over the railway bridge it is the first ( and ? only house on the left), opposite the back lane to station/clay pigeons.

I’m sure he would be happy to have details included as I pasted your Gary’s website to him.

Anthony.

Anthony Gold

The Ship Inn Widdington

It seem like there may have been three or four pubs in Widdington over the years.

The Ship, The Fleur de Lys, The Black Horse and the William The Conqueror

The Ship date from the 1770 and we believe it stood on the site witch is now the The Fleur de Lys.

The Fleur de Lys date from 1729 and could have started life somewhere near the village green

The Black Horse we are not to sure where this pub stood if it was in the village at all

The William The Conqueror dates from the early C19 it is in Cornells Road now Lane

and now a private dwelling

I am trying to put together a page on the Long lost Pub of Widdington.

If you come across any

information no mater how small i would love to see.

Dear Gary,

Thank you for your excellent Widdington site, it supplied just what I needed.

I was interested in a family Wisken, Robert and Elizabeth, shopkeepers till 1811, then innkeepers of the Fleur de Lys, till well into the twenties; therefore Elizabeth was there when your horrible murderer John Pallett carried in his victim. A daughter Ann Wisken (1799) married Josiah Green at Littlebury in 1820 (with her sister Lydia (1797) as witness) and they became landlords of the Falcon Inn. Later Ann, widowed, became licencee of the Kings Head Watling St. Thaxted. Through other members of the family there were also connections with The White Horse and Rose and Crown Ashdon; The Plough at Great Chrisshall;  the Queens Head Littlebury; and  Hoops at Littlebury Green. A second daughter of Robert and Elizabeth, Mary (1806) followed Ann to Littlebury in 1828 and married Thomas Green, a blacksmith nephew of Josiah and became Littlebury's post mistress.

Whatever,  thanks for the opportunity to sort out the Widdington end so painlessly.

Seax has Licenced Victuallers records 1770- 1820 on line which give the names of Essex licensees between those dates.

While looking up Robert Wisken I noted down the rest for Widdington;  In 1770 there were two licensed premises The Fleur and The Ship.

The Ship 1770- 72 - Robert Newland;  1772- 1780 - Henry Smith; 1781 -1784 - James Church; 1785-1787 - Edward Bird

1787 was the last year The Ship was licensed

The Fleur de Lys. 1770-1788 - Robert Savill; 1789-1793 - Sarah Savill; 1794-1798 - Woodley Savill; 1799-1810 - James Harrington; 1811- 1820+ Robert Wisken...... Robert Wisken had also acted as surety for Sarah and Woodley Savill on several occasions.

This may be of no use to you or you may already have it, but best wishes with your wonderful site. Thanks Peter Green

Dear Gary,

Please use any of the stuff as you like. All I know of The Ship is what popped out of the SEAX site. I'd come across the  Black Horse and William the Conqueror from the Essex Pub site which you quote on your site.

The (old) Falcon in Littlebury closed in 1801 and reopened in the old Red Lion on the Main Rd (which closed that year.} I wonder if it's possible that the Fleur likewise moved from the south of the Green into the building vacated by the Ship in 1787?   Seax has deeds of The Fleur de Lys 1727- 1799, (A6737) which may have the answers, unfortunately not on-line so I can't access them;   it would need someone to look them up at Chelmsford or Saffron Walden. 1799 coincides with a change of landlord from the long tenure of the Savills to James Harrington so perhaps 1799 is when the new Fleur opened.

I hope something good turns up, and would love to hear of any developments. Please contact me if there's anything I can do.

Best wishes,  Peter Green

Gary, I thought you might like this confirmation.This is the entry for 1787, the last one for the Ship,         PG.

Hi Gary,

A few bits about Robert Wisken, probably useless but may come in sometime.

Item

Reference Code

D/DC 41/301

Dates of Creation

26 June 1826

Title

[Bond in £1,000]

Scope and Content

Bond in £1,000

Robert WISKEN of WIDDINGTON, alehouse keeper, to Wyatt George Gibson of Saffron Walden, brewer and banker

[Recites surrender by WISKEN to Gibson of 2 messuages formerly called Pages (in occupation of Philip Prior and William Westwood) at Wood End and land (2 1/2 acres) in Staplefield, copyhold of manor of WIDDINGTON]

Date From

1826

Date To

1826

This seems to put Robert Wisken still at the Fleur in 1826. The bond could mean he needed money, owed his banker, brewer, or is cashing in these copyholds for his retirement?  Wisken was 65 in 1826.

The date of the bond may be significant. There was a stock market crash and banking crisis in 1825, and 70 banks went bust including Searle and Co of Saffron Walden, so it may be Wisken banked with Searle and became involved in this.

Searle's crashed on 27 Dec 1825 and their business was taken over in 1826 by a new bank which included three Gibsons, (brewers) including Wyatt George, called initially Gibson Catlin and Co. and then just Gibsons.  The Gibsons were Quakers, made a lot of money and gave a lot away. Wyatt George endowed the new Saffron Walden Hospital in his will (in 1862), so Robert's ruin, if it was, helped a good cause in the end!

When his youngest daughter Mary(1806) married Thos Green of Littlebury in1828, Robert may have gone with the deal ie

gone to live with Mary (or Ann and Josiah at the Falcon).

Robert Wisken died at Littlebury; buried 15th Jun 1831 age 70. (therefore born about 1761)  He seems not to be in the baptisms at Widdington so probably didn't originate there.             

best Wishes Peter Green

Dear Gary,

Was just doing work on the family tree for Ernest Archibald Turner, and on the 1881 census he was living with parents

George Watson Turner and Lizzie H Turner at the Black Horse in Widdington - George ‘Beer Seller’.

When looking for info on the Black Horse I came across your page, with location of pub unknown.

Assuming the Census recorder took details in a geographical order the other properties listed in order are

several entries in Newport Road then

Ringers Cottages

Little Ringers Farm

Ringers Farm

Mill House

Black Horse

Keepers Lodge, Shortgrove Park

Railroad Cottage

then a list all back in Newport Road

Hope it helps.

Regards

Terry