Milt Herman

We're going now. We're live so.

Tell us what in your background brought you to an interest in doing church work or being involved with a congregation.

Judy Olson

My parents didn't go to church. My mother's family was really important in the central Christian Church. They lived in Detroit and central Woodward Christian Church was this huge edifice and my grandpa was, I think, an elder—or whatever they called them in those days. So when we were visiting them they would take me to that church. But other than that, nobody in my dad's family went to church.

Milt Herman

OK.

Judy Olson

And the only way I was exposed to church at all was having a girlfriend whose mother was that was a minister in a Pentecostal church and they took me to their church when I stayed overnight with my friend.

Milt Herman

About what age were you at that time approximately?

Judy Olson

I was 11 or 12 I think and I went to one of their services with my friend and they had a revival meeting, I didn't know anything about such things. The preacher said we know for certain that the world is going to end in 1959, that Christ is going to come then. I really believed it was going to happen. I was so scared that when they had an altar call I went forward. And that stayed with me until 1959 was totally over and I was 19 —so it was probably almost 10 years that I worried about it.

And then I went to another Pentecostal church with another neighbor and they gave out little plastic tags for memorizing Bible verses. And finally, when I was in junior high my best friend took me to her Presbyterian Church . It was just a couple blocks from my home and we walked there. We had this amazing Sunday School teacher who taught 7th, 8th, and 9th grade girls and there were maybe 15-20 of us. She was so warm and her faith was so strong. And during that time her four year old son, who was born with some physical defects, had been taking gymnastic lessons and acrobatics and was a performer and he was just—I mean, he could twist himself in all kinds of shapes. It was just amazing, and then he came down with a spinal meningitis. He was just very ill and he said it came so close to death and every Sunday we would meet and we would all make a huge group hug and we would pray for him and that was so moving and her faith was so strong I became a Christian. I just thought, yes, this is where I want to be. And our Sunday school class stayed together all through high school, so it's probably six or seven years for me in that class, and even afterwards, I would hear from them and we would have reunions once in a while.

Milt Herman

To reinforce that relationship.

Judy Olson

And also they had an organ and organist who was kind of cranky. But I sang in the choir and I loved the sound of the organ, which I had never heard before. And I wanted to learn that. I didn't know I was going to be a church organist. But I thought yes. I want to be able to make that sound, power, and beautiful music.

When I went to my first year in college at Cornell, I joined the Presbyterian youth group there and that was really a great experience. I really enjoyed it. I transferred to Penn State because I wanted to go into music education and they didn't have it at Cornell. I had started out wanting to become a chem major at Cornell, but in my first quantitative chemistry class at Cornell I felt like I can't do this. And I had gotten 100% on my report card in high school chemistry, but it's like all new with all this math that doesn't come out even.You know when we were in high school all the math problems came out even. But this was all these measurements like .03 x 10 to the 20th power and I didn’t get it.

So I decided on music. Anyway, I transferred to Penn State so I could be a music education major and didn't do church there. But my second year there, my advisor said, “why don't you take organ lessons this semester instead of piano lessons?” And I said YES, so I got to take organ that semester, but didn’t get another opportunity to take more lessons.

So we went to the little Lutheran church in Ellensburg and they had liturgy that they sang and it felt really strange and I didn’t like it.

Milt Herman

Yeah, and you do it every Sunday. This is that same thing.

Judy Olson

Yeah, yeah. Right? deletion) Then Monte transferred to the UW and we went to the University Lutheran Church there and I enjoyed that a lot. They had a big organ and lots of music. And then we moved to Aberdeen for Monte’s first teaching job. We went to the Lutheran Church there and they were not friendly at all. So then when we had Eric and took him to church, there was no nursery and they didn’t like that he was crying in church. So I thought, OK, this is enough of this. We came to East Wenatchee, Monte got a job here, finally got out of the rain and everything. And the Lutheran Church was on the corner down on close to us, so the first Sunday we went to that church.

Milt Herman

At Eastmont and Grant Rd.

Judy Olson

Yes and Eric was just one year old. People were so friendly and after church we met this couple and they invited us to their house for coffee and they became our best friends. The were a little older than we were and they just oohed and awed over Eric. Yeah, it felt just great but afterward Monte said this is the wrong Lutheran Church. I said what? He said it's Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. And I said, well, yeah. They said, well, they're real conservative and their beliefs are a little different. But because those people were so friendly we kept going there. And we went there more than 20 years.

Milt Herman

So were you involved with music?

Judy Olson

I eventually got asked to direct the choir, so I directed the choir there for years. I was not comfortable with their beliefs. I went to a Bible class and we had a women’s circle which I loved. That was goodWe had a pastor who was very—what's the word?—he was really good with Bible study. We could study the Old Testament and New Testament and and he showed us how the stories all fit together. And so with all the correlation I was impressed with how everything connects together. And then he left. And then I got more uncomfortable. And then one day in Bible class we were talking about sickness and sin and somebody said, “Well, do you believe illness is caused by sin” and everybody said, “Oh yes, of course.” And they also believed creation was literal. It was literally seven days, and the earth is only, what, 3000 years old? And I know that this is not so. It's not good.

And then we had a congregational retreat. And a couple of women got on fire, said there was a free for all where you discuss problems and they said they did not like the music I chose for the choir and they wanted to choose the music. And I was just devastated. Because I'd been the choir director for 15 years at least. So then the American Guild of Organists was formed by Lou Lee who used to be at Grace. She got that group started and they had workshops and she cornered me one day and said “you need to join”.

So I did. I hadn’t played the organ at all since college and I played the piano a little bit, but we went to lunch after one of the meetings and, someone from the Methodist Church up on the hill said we're looking for an organist at our church. Would you be interested? And I said, what time is this service? It was at 11:00 o'clock while our service was at 9:30. It's just a few blocks. I thought I could do that. So I played their organ little Hammond organ, which I'd never played. And I thought, OK, if I'm going to do this, I gotta have more lessons. So I had this other friend from the Guild of Organists that taught organ. So I started taking lessons from her and she helped me figure out all the stuff and I said, how long will it be before I can just sight-read hymns and use the pedals? She said it will take about a year. I said OK, and so I had to practice a lot. But she was right and it worked. So I had two churches back and forth every Sunday.

When I had been organist at Trinity Methodist for 3 years I learned that there was an opening at St Lukes for organist and choir director, and it paid twice as much so I applied for that job. I was hired, got that job and was organist and choir director for three years.

And then I was in Chorale with Diane Stober, who was the choir director Grace and sat next to me and she said, you know, Grace is looking for an organist.

Milt Herman

Had you ever played that organ?

Judy Olson

No, but I had heard it in a concert. And I knew it was really nice. But when we had a joint Reformation service at Grace with all of the Lutheran churches, and I remember there was a brass quartet. And it was a wonderful service. I just felt really good. And afterwards the elders from the Lutheran church where I was still playing criticized us for taking communion. It was like that was a horrible sin.

Milt Herman

Well, the original disciples were Missouri Lutheran.

Judy Olson

That's another thing about the Missouri Synod: it was the close communion. If we weren't Missouri Synod Lutheran you couldn't take communion because your thoughts and your communion wouldn't be sincere and it would affect the other people who are taking communion with you. It never sat well with me anyway, so I said yes. I'd love to audition for the job. I was over there practicing and practicing and practicing and I got a message from Peggy Telleksen, who was the retiring organist at Grace. She said, “someone from First Presbyterian Church is also auditioning for this job. I wanted you to know that, so you better practice a lot.” So I said thanks.

And right before I was having my audition, the other candidate dropped out. The audition went well and my first Sunday was New Year's Day. They had a guest preacher. Anyway, I was terrified but he was joking about all the Lutheran traditions, including the fact that they don’t do altar calls, and I remembered my experience at the Pentecostal church. And everybody can take communion. And I was so happy. Happy to be there. I had this Bach postlude for New Year's Day and it has an awful lot of pedal work, and it was really scary to play, but I'd worked so hard on that and about a third of the way through it, a fellow teacher at Eastmont High School where I worked came up and sat next to me on the organ bench. And I'm playing the postlude that requires all these pedals, I'm all over the keyboard and my feet are all over and I just panicked. And I know I made some mistakes, but I survived. And he gave me a big hug afterwards, but it was just so nice to be where I felt comfortable. And I've loved it ever since. I love the organ, I love playing music. I love playing the hymns. I love the message, the words that are in the hymns. And the sound of the organ. I like the challenge of making the registrations fit the message and I love being with people. I love it when the church is full and everybody sings their heart out when I put the mixture on. And I love the choir and I sure hope we can find a music person that can hold up the standards. It's so moving sometimes on Sunday morning when the sun streams through the stained glass windows.

So that's why I'm an organist here.

Milt Herman

You covered most of the questions that Bergen had. Let's talk about the future at Grace. You know we're all aware of what's going on right now over this gift.

Judy Olson

Yes, yes. And there's a lot of frustration of people being able to get back inside. I have information from the Association of Lutheran Church musicians. It has websites that you can go to that tells what the current restrictions are for singing or should be, and there was a new one that just came out and I haven't had time to download it to see what they say.

Well, that reminds me one more thing with my faith story. I was the organist when Diane was the choir director here. This before she retired. They were just starting the Association of Lutheran Church musicians. It was organizing after the combination of the ALC and LCA. And their first convention was in Seattle, and so we went to that, and that was wonderful—all these beautiful music and organists. And we went to several churches, and one of the services Susan Briehl took part. And she gave communion. And I thought—because the other thing about Misssouri Synod is they don't allow women to do anything. Can't be an elder. You can't be a committee chairperson. You can't be an officer. You can't serve communion. You can't read the scriptures. You can't say a prayer in church. And here's Susan Briehl. She gave me the Communion, and she smiled!

And I thought how great is this? I mean it was a whole new world and I just felt so, so moved.

Milt Herman

So you obviously feel a part of the community at Grace. And you've told me why. So we've answered that one.

Let me read the mission statement. You probably know it by heart.

Judy Olson

It's in the bulletin every Sunday and every once in a while I read it and it reminds me.

Milt Herman

Yeah, not just men or just ladies, or just kids. Or and it's “We proclaim and celebrate the gospel of Jesus Christ through word and sacrament so that a community of believers is created, trained, nurtured and sent into mission.”

And right now the Council is working without trying to improve it or change it somehow. And of course we'll all have a chance to vote on that, but we've worked on that because I've been on the Council a couple of times. I know we've tried to do that in the past. Never really worked.

Judy Olson

Isn't there something about inclusivity?

Milt Herman

Yeah, yes exactly. And this one doesn't say anything about exclusivity, you know. So what's wrong? I don't understand what I don't see any wrong with this one.

Judy Olson

Well, in this climate. To read the article in the Seattle paper this morning about that Moses Lake incident in the lake... There were two boats and one boat was flying a gay flag, gay pride flag, and they were just minding their own business and this other boat came speeding toward them. Did six complete circles around them and one woman yelled at them, gave them the middle finger and yelled obscenities at them just for flying the gay flag and then mysteriously, their boat suddenly blew up. I mean it just there was an explosion. The boat that was harassing them. And they were dumbfounded. Apparently a coincidence.

Milt Herman

Yeah, but they should have paid more attention to maintenance than harassing people.

Judy Olson

Yeah, but just the thought that they would... just because of somebody flying a flag.

I mean, how can you feel your sin is worse than mine, yeah? And I don't believe it’s a sin.

Milt Herman

We're all in that boat, yes?

So do you think Grace lives by that mission statement?

Judy Olson

Well, I think I have not heard of any incidents and I know somebody mentions it almost every Sunday. Bergen was careful to get it in his sermon every time. I mean, Monte asked me why does he bring that up every Sunday, I said, because it's something we need to remember.

Milt Herman

Is there anything else you'd want to say about the future of Grace at all? Or that you were hoping?

Judy Olson

I just hope people come back when the time is ready.

Milt Herman

Yes, indeed. And it will work. I guess in particular with this Fox gift that we've been given. You know anything special you'd like to see done with that? Or the way it should be handled or some specific things.

Judy Olson

I would like to use it as an endowment. For, well, you keep it and you spend the interest. That way it's everlasting and you can continue doing good and the places that you give money to you can continue to give them money to help. And for 2-3 years and then it's all one time and it's gone. And then they're back in the same boat. I just think it would be foolish to spend it all.

And there will always be needs in our church. Let's not rush to give it all away like kids. Let’s deal with it.

Milt Herman

It hasn't happened yet, but I'd like to see the intern effort endowed. I mean we're pretty unique in that area.

Judy Olson

Yeah, yeah. And we've had interns as long as I can remember. I mean, I started in 1987 and there was already a history of interns.

Milt Herman

I started in ‘74 too so it goes back a long way.

Judy Olson

Yeah, I and now we have the Garnesses. Yes, and it was just a coincidence that that they ended up back.

Milt Herman

That wasn't coincidence!

Well, why not just quickly do those questions there and down the other side and see if there's anything there area you'd want to just talk about.

Judy Olson

One other thing about being an organist. The friend that I took organ lessons from, I ended up taking organ lessons from her for six years until she moved to Minneapolis.

Milt Herman

Lutherans all go home there.

Judy Olson

Yeah, yeah. And I miss them. An opportunity for lessons is not here.

Another thing I always thought about Lutheranism. When I was a kid, one of my best friends was Lutheran—and this is in New York State, upstate New York—and they just met in a little house. I thought it was kind of an offshoot. I didn't realize, I had no idea who they were. There were no Scandinavian heritage, it was all Dutch in New York. The only way you get to be Lutheran is you're born one or you marry one you know, because if you marry one you're almost guaranteed, right? The Catholics are almost forced to become Lutheran. Think of John McQuaig. Yeah, it's a big deal in the Presbyterian church, and he married a Lutheran, but it took him a while to decide. But eventually he saw the light.

Milt Herman

He's chairing this Fox vision committee.

Judy Olson

Oh, is he?

Milt Herman

He's yeah, he's great. He's great.

Like I said in your just in your general speaking, you covered most of that really well. Which is better than me asking you questions.

Judy Olson

I think one thing about Grace when Pastor John was here. Our granddaughter got leukemia when she was eight months old and she was our second granddaughter…. It's hard to talk about that without crying.

And she, she did OK.

Milt Herman

How old was she?

Judy Olson

She was eight months old.. We went down several times and stayed with them while she was in the hospital and because somebody had to be with her. One of the parents all the time. Our son Arne was working full time, so Keri would stay with her during the day and then he would come from work and stay over there and she was in the hospital from January through June. And he would stay overnight—he couldn't even go home. And then in the morning he would go home and take a quick shower and change his clothes before he went to work. So we went down and would help Keri. (deletion)

And then Mina relapsed a year later and they couldn't stop it with the chemo. So she had to have a bone marrow transplant. We had seen when she had and there was this little 5 year old black kid. Big grin on his face and he came in. He had relapsed and he was coming in for a bone marrow transplant, just cheerful and happy to be back. And he died from the bone marrow transplant. And a couple others had died while she was in. And only one or two had survived and I thought, oh God. Right? They said six weeks she can go home. Yeah, at five weeks. It just hit graft versus host disease hit her and she was so sick with multiple organ failure. It was awful. She was probably going to die. I mean, she was in intensive care and they gave her monoclonal antibodies which were brand new at the time. (deletion)

And they gave her two (deletion) doses of that, and she snapped out of it. She started recovering and did well. She's been the toughest little girl. She just graduated from high school yesterday. Anyway, why I'm telling you this when Dave and Faye’s son Charlie was dying from the brain tumor Pastor John had a healing service for him and Mina, so we all sat in the chancel and it was just the two families and that was so moving. They had a healing service in Rome for Mina that was presided over by the Pope, and so she was blessed by the Pope too, so anyway. But the downside of that is she went in for her yearly or twice yearly checkup a month ago and the doctor found 2 masses on her thyroid They had to remove the thyroid about four weeks and it was cancer. But they got the whole thing out and there's a good chance that it won't have spread but that there's always a danger of for her getting secondary cancer as a result of the full body radiation she had before her bone marrow transplant.

Milt Herman

Otherwise, though, she's mentally and everything—

Judy Olson

Yeah, she's good. They thought that she might have (deletion) learning issues and she was tested and she was quite a bit behind but caught up, but she's just doing great. She had all kinds of honors. She took all of the AP classes that were offered in her high school and this, by the way, while she learned Spanish, and she received the bi-literal award on her graduation. And she's going to Whitman.

Milt Herman

Is she going to be going back full time this fall on campus? What's her name?

Judy Olson

Mina. Mina. Her real name was Brigitta, but her mother couldn't get her mouth around it so… She told me once when she was just one and a half and they were in the process of changing it to Mina, "My real name is Brigitta, but the people who love me call me Mina." So anyway. She's one tough cookie. Yeah, she's sweet.

Mostly happy ending.

Anyway, that was how it… One of those times of trial, right?

Milt Herman

I'm glad you told me that I did, had no idea. You know I never had heard that you had a granddaughter that was quite ill.

Judy Olson

It affected all of us. We’re all very tender, I mean, any little thing can bring me to tears.