Embedded Files
Krishna consciousness and the youth
Krishna consciousness and the youth
Youth Engagement- Interview with Daru Brahman Das (Social Worker, Care and Assistance, Mayapur)
Youth Engagement- Interview with Daru Brahman Das (Social Worker, Care and Assistance, Mayapur)
The thing about young people teenagers, in my experience, they won’t go anywhere they don’t feel wanted so we have to somehow convey that we really want and value young people. And has to be real because they can suss. You know, they are going through so many changes in their bodies, in their minds, relationships, their roles, their thinking, they need a place where they can just be and be real and be accepted.
The thing about young people teenagers, in my experience, they won’t go anywhere they don’t feel wanted so we have to somehow convey that we really want and value young people. And has to be real because they can suss. You know, they are going through so many changes in their bodies, in their minds, relationships, their roles, their thinking, they need a place where they can just be and be real and be accepted.
We really need to convey that to them, we really need to find the good qualities in the youth we have and really need to build on those, we need to be in a mood of appreciating people and we need to have respect for the Youth.
We really need to convey that to them, we really need to find the good qualities in the youth we have and really need to build on those, we need to be in a mood of appreciating people and we need to have respect for the Youth.
The other thing is that we live in a community with very high ideals and most of us know or some of us know that we can’t reach those ideals immediately and the youth need to be accepted.
The other thing is that we live in a community with very high ideals and most of us know or some of us know that we can’t reach those ideals immediately and the youth need to be accepted.
So it’s the kind of double-edge situation, is difficult for people to live here knowing they don’t reach those ideals unless they feel accepted with their faults. We don’t need to focus on them but we need to give a place for members coming to you who can’t reach those high ideals, who are on the way to them, are interested in getting to them.
So it’s the kind of double-edge situation, is difficult for people to live here knowing they don’t reach those ideals unless they feel accepted with their faults. We don’t need to focus on them but we need to give a place for members coming to you who can’t reach those high ideals, who are on the way to them, are interested in getting to them.
We have to appreciate, especially in the youth, the fact that they choose to be here, they want to be part of ISKCON, they want to search Srila Prabhupada, they will have something in them that brings them here, whether is the history with their family or something they discovered, some realization etc.
We have to appreciate, especially in the youth, the fact that they choose to be here, they want to be part of ISKCON, they want to search Srila Prabhupada, they will have something in them that brings them here, whether is the history with their family or something they discovered, some realization etc.
Intellectual Simplicity
Intellectual Simplicity
By Kesava Krsna Dasa
By Kesava Krsna Dasa
It can sometimes be tough being an intellectual in Iskcon. The tendency to keep one foot in the empirical camp and the other in the devotional arena can cause incompatibilities of faith, especially when continuing to grapple with “oddities” like elephant sized mangoes, airborne mountains, talking hyenas and bodily exuded cosmic bubbles.
It can sometimes be tough being an intellectual in Iskcon. The tendency to keep one foot in the empirical camp and the other in the devotional arena can cause incompatibilities of faith, especially when continuing to grapple with “oddities” like elephant sized mangoes, airborne mountains, talking hyenas and bodily exuded cosmic bubbles.
Almost everything is interesting for an intellectual. How things work, or don’t. Statistics and comparisons, complex and more complicated, beyond comprehension and ridiculously out of bounds, all can pose challenges when faced with the “simplicity” of Krishna consciousness. And more so when fantastic and marvellous Vedic accounts remains fabulously beyond belief.
Almost everything is interesting for an intellectual. How things work, or don’t. Statistics and comparisons, complex and more complicated, beyond comprehension and ridiculously out of bounds, all can pose challenges when faced with the “simplicity” of Krishna consciousness. And more so when fantastic and marvellous Vedic accounts remains fabulously beyond belief.
Does “simple living” dull down our inquiring spirit to the point of unquestioning obedient acceptance of everything taught to us? Will “high thinking” allow us free reign to explore that which confounds the greatest material thinkers?
Does “simple living” dull down our inquiring spirit to the point of unquestioning obedient acceptance of everything taught to us? Will “high thinking” allow us free reign to explore that which confounds the greatest material thinkers?
“Prove that God exists,” Srila Prabhupada would say. This seems the most certain way of engaging a lively intellect. How many sprightly and bouncy intellectual devotees are convinced of this, especially when having to explain in terms of elephants and swans that do inter-planetary travel, and other faith shaking concepts?
“Prove that God exists,” Srila Prabhupada would say. This seems the most certain way of engaging a lively intellect. How many sprightly and bouncy intellectual devotees are convinced of this, especially when having to explain in terms of elephants and swans that do inter-planetary travel, and other faith shaking concepts?
The problem is, that one’s intellect can get bogged down worrying about the veracity of such Vedic descriptions so as to cripple the preaching tendency. One’s foot remains cemented in the empirical lure of ignorant wonderment. Faith appears to be an ever more precious commodity. Then one ends up intellectualising and justifying one’s doubts to cover for the lack of Krishna conscious resolve.
The problem is, that one’s intellect can get bogged down worrying about the veracity of such Vedic descriptions so as to cripple the preaching tendency. One’s foot remains cemented in the empirical lure of ignorant wonderment. Faith appears to be an ever more precious commodity. Then one ends up intellectualising and justifying one’s doubts to cover for the lack of Krishna conscious resolve.
One can also speak and write in an intellectual way simply for the sake of being intelligent. This motive is better suited for preaching to scholarly people. If one is systematically teaching academic subjects within our devotee colleges, which should be an intellectual exercise, there is little or no real intellectual development if one parrots everything. If all our students earn their sastric degrees and think alike, then that is a misuse of “high thinking” potential.
One can also speak and write in an intellectual way simply for the sake of being intelligent. This motive is better suited for preaching to scholarly people. If one is systematically teaching academic subjects within our devotee colleges, which should be an intellectual exercise, there is little or no real intellectual development if one parrots everything. If all our students earn their sastric degrees and think alike, then that is a misuse of “high thinking” potential.
Thinking oneself as a learned intellectual and acting improperly with the use of intelligence specifies bodily attachment. Conversely, some of us earn some sastric recognition, and then fail to use it for preaching purposes, or for furthering our mission spread.
Thinking oneself as a learned intellectual and acting improperly with the use of intelligence specifies bodily attachment. Conversely, some of us earn some sastric recognition, and then fail to use it for preaching purposes, or for furthering our mission spread.
Devotees often do not know how to properly engage in Krishna katha, because if we all more or less think alike there is little scope for analysing subjects differently from various angles of vision. This requires authentic and original “high thinking” use of the intellect. Then Krishna katha becomes a joyful devotional experience.
Devotees often do not know how to properly engage in Krishna katha, because if we all more or less think alike there is little scope for analysing subjects differently from various angles of vision. This requires authentic and original “high thinking” use of the intellect. Then Krishna katha becomes a joyful devotional experience.
Mature devotees prefer and often express themselves in simple ways. They are not overly impressed by intellectualisation, but are willing to simplify intellectual matters. This behavioural pattern may seem simplistic to some. We have naturally simple devotees and intellectually simple devotees. There is a convenience and beauty in being genuinely simple, without losing one’s intellectual edge.
Mature devotees prefer and often express themselves in simple ways. They are not overly impressed by intellectualisation, but are willing to simplify intellectual matters. This behavioural pattern may seem simplistic to some. We have naturally simple devotees and intellectually simple devotees. There is a convenience and beauty in being genuinely simple, without losing one’s intellectual edge.
For instance, Srila Prabhupada often cited the example of the Gopis of Vrndavana as being, “simple village girls.” But he meant it in the sense of using that simplicity for Krishna’s pleasure. Otherwise each and every one of those beautiful Gopis and Manjaris has the intellectual and spiritual capacity to infuse a sincere devotee with the highest possible knowledge and grace attainable.
For instance, Srila Prabhupada often cited the example of the Gopis of Vrndavana as being, “simple village girls.” But he meant it in the sense of using that simplicity for Krishna’s pleasure. Otherwise each and every one of those beautiful Gopis and Manjaris has the intellectual and spiritual capacity to infuse a sincere devotee with the highest possible knowledge and grace attainable.
Were intellectual giants like Srila Jiva Goswami, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and others, not Manjaris themselves? The very simple verse and prose of Srila Narottama Dasa Thakur are renowned not just for their simplicity, but the profundity of siddhantic awareness. Real simplicity then is a natural way of expressing oneself in simple terms, but with profound wisdom behind it. In this way, the “simple living” ethic becomes a very profound concept.
Were intellectual giants like Srila Jiva Goswami, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and others, not Manjaris themselves? The very simple verse and prose of Srila Narottama Dasa Thakur are renowned not just for their simplicity, but the profundity of siddhantic awareness. Real simplicity then is a natural way of expressing oneself in simple terms, but with profound wisdom behind it. In this way, the “simple living” ethic becomes a very profound concept.
Even Srila Sanatana Goswami’s initial enquiry to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu of, “Why am I suffering, and who am I?” is a rarely profound question, for how many people in this world ask the same thing with sincerity?
Even Srila Sanatana Goswami’s initial enquiry to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu of, “Why am I suffering, and who am I?” is a rarely profound question, for how many people in this world ask the same thing with sincerity?
For our intellectuals who baulk at the simplicity of living and faith, and suspect our range of “high thinking,” it is worthwhile remembering how the simple act of daily chanting Hare Krishna correctly, and purely, is itself an intellectual challenge.
For our intellectuals who baulk at the simplicity of living and faith, and suspect our range of “high thinking,” it is worthwhile remembering how the simple act of daily chanting Hare Krishna correctly, and purely, is itself an intellectual challenge.
While we are chanting, all that we have been taught, all philosophical concepts, all allowances and prohibitions, all that is required to focus upon the source of our own eternal relationship with Krishna, have to be honed in harmony. This can be a mean intellectual task. But Krishna’s Bhagavad-Gita request for us to surrender our all, including our intellect, will hopefully earn us ease of passage into the “simple living, high thinking” ocean of Bhakti. Of course, mercy is the key.
While we are chanting, all that we have been taught, all philosophical concepts, all allowances and prohibitions, all that is required to focus upon the source of our own eternal relationship with Krishna, have to be honed in harmony. This can be a mean intellectual task. But Krishna’s Bhagavad-Gita request for us to surrender our all, including our intellect, will hopefully earn us ease of passage into the “simple living, high thinking” ocean of Bhakti. Of course, mercy is the key.
A wavering intellectual might think, “If you believe that Lord Brahma has four heads, and was born asexually from a lotus flower… then good luck to you.” Being obsessed with the thought that such convictions are forms of naive blind faith, this is itself a display of little trust in the process set by our intellectually simple acaryas.
A wavering intellectual might think, “If you believe that Lord Brahma has four heads, and was born asexually from a lotus flower… then good luck to you.” Being obsessed with the thought that such convictions are forms of naive blind faith, this is itself a display of little trust in the process set by our intellectually simple acaryas.
It requires a leap of faith and trust to acknowledge that the vaisnava quality of simplicity is one that surpasses all bodily intellectual concerns. Such simplicity has the power to penetrate an impure heart and transform one into a lover of God. This fruitful effect is far more relishable than hovering about on the mental platform with a leg stuck in limited empiricism and wild conjecture.
It requires a leap of faith and trust to acknowledge that the vaisnava quality of simplicity is one that surpasses all bodily intellectual concerns. Such simplicity has the power to penetrate an impure heart and transform one into a lover of God. This fruitful effect is far more relishable than hovering about on the mental platform with a leg stuck in limited empiricism and wild conjecture.
“Please be reasonable,” one may protest. If reason is called for then it is the height of reason to associate with faithful devotees. By mixing with and utilising one’s intellect to properly discuss topics relating to our real devotional welfare, a taste can develop. By doing this one does not compromise intellectual integrity, but rather purifies it in Krishna’s service. This is sublime simplicity.
“Please be reasonable,” one may protest. If reason is called for then it is the height of reason to associate with faithful devotees. By mixing with and utilising one’s intellect to properly discuss topics relating to our real devotional welfare, a taste can develop. By doing this one does not compromise intellectual integrity, but rather purifies it in Krishna’s service. This is sublime simplicity.
Ys, Kesava Krsna Dasa – GRS
Ys, Kesava Krsna Dasa – GRS
SOLSTICE CELEBRATIONS AT STONEHENGE
SOLSTICE CELEBRATIONS AT STONEHENGE
Devotees from Bhaktivedanta Manor on their south UK trip.
Devotees from Bhaktivedanta Manor on their south UK trip.
Exclusive look of the red carpet at the Los Angeles Premiere of Hare Krishna.
Exclusive look of the red carpet at the Los Angeles Premiere of Hare Krishna.
Exclusive look of the red carpet at the Los Angeles Premiere of Hare Krishna! The Film with guests including New York Times Best Selling Author and Spiritual Guide Radhanath Swami (3 min video)
Exclusive look of the red carpet at the Los Angeles Premiere of Hare Krishna! The Film with guests including New York Times Best Selling Author and Spiritual Guide Radhanath Swami (3 min video)
Giriraj Swami: I just saw the film for the second time, and got even more out of it than the first time, and I am eagerly looking forward to seeing it again—and again.
Giriraj Swami: I just saw the film for the second time, and got even more out of it than the first time, and I am eagerly looking forward to seeing it again—and again.
…last night at the movie ‘Hare Krishna: The Mantra, The Movement and the Man who started it all’ …….with some wonderful association, including Guru Maharaj, the Producers and the Director (Yadubara das and Visakha dasi) of the film.
…last night at the movie ‘Hare Krishna: The Mantra, The Movement and the Man who started it all’ …….with some wonderful association, including Guru Maharaj, the Producers and the Director (Yadubara das and Visakha dasi) of the film.
I highly recommend it!
I highly recommend it!
Watch it here: https://goo.gl/6XFREC
Watch it here: https://goo.gl/6XFREC
Photo credits: Ranchor Dasa with Yadubara das
Photo credits: Ranchor Dasa with Yadubara das
300 kg of paneer from ISKCON farm, Gita Nagari
300 kg of paneer from ISKCON farm, Gita Nagari
What most people didn’t know is that one less publicized dream of Srila Prabhupada was also becoming true. An ISKCON farm, Gita Nagari, delivered 300 kg of paneer, produced with the farm’s milk from protected cows, to the festival kitchen. Hope this will become a reality soon, that the farms will produce food to our temples, restaurants and congregations. All glories to Gita Nagari, for their exemplary karma-free dairy and all glories to the event organizers, who encouraged and valued the farm’s produce by buying it! This is a way to go!
What most people didn’t know is that one less publicized dream of Srila Prabhupada was also becoming true. An ISKCON farm, Gita Nagari, delivered 300 kg of paneer, produced with the farm’s milk from protected cows, to the festival kitchen. Hope this will become a reality soon, that the farms will produce food to our temples, restaurants and congregations. All glories to Gita Nagari, for their exemplary karma-free dairy and all glories to the event organizers, who encouraged and valued the farm’s produce by buying it! This is a way to go!
Why do we hate?
Why do we hate?
From Back to Godhead
From Back to Godhead
By Syamananda Dasa
By Syamananda Dasa
“No one is born hating another because of the color of his skin/ his background/ or his religion. People must learn to hate/ and if they can learn to hate/ they can be taught to love/ for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite. II – Nelson Mandela
“No one is born hating another because of the color of his skin/ his background/ or his religion. People must learn to hate/ and if they can learn to hate/ they can be taught to love/ for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite. II – Nelson Mandela
Nelson Mandela was born in racist South Africa. The then apartheid regime discriminated between whites and non-whites. The whites- only government declared some areas of the nation as the exclusive property of the white population and all other color groups were segregated and given their separate areas. Mr.Mandela dared oppose this discrimination and was labeled a terrorist and jailed for nearly three decades. Somehow, he prevailed, and after he was set free, he was elected the leader of the nation in the first elections in which all racial groups were allowed to cast their votes. lt is interesting to note that Mr.Mandela asserts that we need to be taught to hate.
Nelson Mandela was born in racist South Africa. The then apartheid regime discriminated between whites and non-whites. The whites- only government declared some areas of the nation as the exclusive property of the white population and all other color groups were segregated and given their separate areas. Mr.Mandela dared oppose this discrimination and was labeled a terrorist and jailed for nearly three decades. Somehow, he prevailed, and after he was set free, he was elected the leader of the nation in the first elections in which all racial groups were allowed to cast their votes. lt is interesting to note that Mr.Mandela asserts that we need to be taught to hate.
In today’s times it is not unusual to see a Palestinian mother say that she hopes that her children will continue to hate the Israelis and continue their struggle, or, as in the latest case of terrorism on US soil, the Boston Marathon bombings, where two American brothers of Chechen descent vented their hatred for all things American by planting two pressure-cooker bombs near the marathon event. In fact, one of the two brothers had let go of an ethnic Chinese taxi driver saying that, “We won’t hate you because you are not American.”
In today’s times it is not unusual to see a Palestinian mother say that she hopes that her children will continue to hate the Israelis and continue their struggle, or, as in the latest case of terrorism on US soil, the Boston Marathon bombings, where two American brothers of Chechen descent vented their hatred for all things American by planting two pressure-cooker bombs near the marathon event. In fact, one of the two brothers had let go of an ethnic Chinese taxi driver saying that, “We won’t hate you because you are not American.”
Thus in this age it is easy for nations to hate other nations, businesses to hate their competitors, race groups to hate other races, and come to think of it, people even hate themselves.
Thus in this age it is easy for nations to hate other nations, businesses to hate their competitors, race groups to hate other races, and come to think of it, people even hate themselves.
How does one begin hating anything else?
How does one begin hating anything else?
What is the origin of this feeling?
What is the origin of this feeling?
Let us begin by trying to understand the origin of ‘hate’. Hate of course is an emotion directly opposing love and therefore it is part of material nature’s duality. Duality means two, or pair, as love-hate, like-dislike, day-night, birth-death, up-down, victory-loss. The Bhagavad-gita says that everywhere you look, you will find everything in two’s or pairs. Why? That is the nature of this world. If it is natural for this world to have everything in two’s, then why are we not happy with this arrangement? Because it is unnatural for you and me to live in this world of duality. Our constitutional position is that of being subordinate to the Supreme Lord. God is described as one whose knowledge is pure. On account of being separated from this pure knowledge, we become controlled by impure knowledge in the form of the illusory energy called maya. Maya induces us to think that we have nothing to do with God and we need to sort things out ourselves. This duality of interest is the beginning point and all hell breaks loose after that.
Let us begin by trying to understand the origin of ‘hate’. Hate of course is an emotion directly opposing love and therefore it is part of material nature’s duality. Duality means two, or pair, as love-hate, like-dislike, day-night, birth-death, up-down, victory-loss. The Bhagavad-gita says that everywhere you look, you will find everything in two’s or pairs. Why? That is the nature of this world. If it is natural for this world to have everything in two’s, then why are we not happy with this arrangement? Because it is unnatural for you and me to live in this world of duality. Our constitutional position is that of being subordinate to the Supreme Lord. God is described as one whose knowledge is pure. On account of being separated from this pure knowledge, we become controlled by impure knowledge in the form of the illusory energy called maya. Maya induces us to think that we have nothing to do with God and we need to sort things out ourselves. This duality of interest is the beginning point and all hell breaks loose after that.
One important duality caused by maya is the duality of love and hate. Both of them are equally powerful emotions which can run or ruin our lives. It’s like a football game between the two teams of love (desire) and hate, and the living entity (the football) is kicked by both the teams. Both of them are intense emotions and unless one is trained, it is likely that he may mismanage their utility.
One important duality caused by maya is the duality of love and hate. Both of them are equally powerful emotions which can run or ruin our lives. It’s like a football game between the two teams of love (desire) and hate, and the living entity (the football) is kicked by both the teams. Both of them are intense emotions and unless one is trained, it is likely that he may mismanage their utility.
Now comes the million-dollar question: Does God ever hate anyone?
Now comes the million-dollar question: Does God ever hate anyone?
Commenting on the prayers of Queen Kunti Devi, Srila Prabhupada says:
Commenting on the prayers of Queen Kunti Devi, Srila Prabhupada says:
“O Dear Krishna, you favor no one and no one is your enemy.” We expect some benediction or profit from a friend and inimical activities from an enemy, but Krishna is so perfect that no one can harm Him nor can anyone give Him anything. So who can be His friend or enemy? He doesn’t need anyone’s favor. He is complete. I may be a very poor man, and therefore I may expect some favor from a friend, but that is because I am imperfect. Because I am not full, because I am deficient in so many ways, I am always needy, and therefore I want to create some friend, and similarly I hate an enemy. But since Krishna is the Supreme, no one can harm Krishna, nor can anyone give Krishna anything He might need.”
“O Dear Krishna, you favor no one and no one is your enemy.” We expect some benediction or profit from a friend and inimical activities from an enemy, but Krishna is so perfect that no one can harm Him nor can anyone give Him anything. So who can be His friend or enemy? He doesn’t need anyone’s favor. He is complete. I may be a very poor man, and therefore I may expect some favor from a friend, but that is because I am imperfect. Because I am not full, because I am deficient in so many ways, I am always needy, and therefore I want to create some friend, and similarly I hate an enemy. But since Krishna is the Supreme, no one can harm Krishna, nor can anyone give Krishna anything He might need.”
When a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada how to deal with hatred and envy, Srila Prabhupada had this to offer: “One should not be attached to his personal achievement. But, if one is attached in order to please his spiritual master, then it is all right. Unattached to my benefit, attached to Krishna’ s benefit. Krishna consciousness means attachment for Krishna and detachment for personal benefit, that’s all. But in any case, if there is fight amongst yourselves over these things, book distribution, competition, you should not develop ill-feeling. That depends on the persons. If ill-feeling is there, then stop it and all together chant Hare Krishna, Those who are not so advanced should eulogize those who are advanced. If you become envious, that is material. Attachment, detachment – these things are natural. If you become attached to something you become detached from some other. So we can estimate our advancement in this way.
When a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada how to deal with hatred and envy, Srila Prabhupada had this to offer: “One should not be attached to his personal achievement. But, if one is attached in order to please his spiritual master, then it is all right. Unattached to my benefit, attached to Krishna’ s benefit. Krishna consciousness means attachment for Krishna and detachment for personal benefit, that’s all. But in any case, if there is fight amongst yourselves over these things, book distribution, competition, you should not develop ill-feeling. That depends on the persons. If ill-feeling is there, then stop it and all together chant Hare Krishna, Those who are not so advanced should eulogize those who are advanced. If you become envious, that is material. Attachment, detachment – these things are natural. If you become attached to something you become detached from some other. So we can estimate our advancement in this way.
This is the test. In the Krishna consciousness movement there is no question of envy, hatred, things like that. Material life means hatred for Krishna and desire for matter. So we have to convert ourselves. When one becomes Krishna conscious actually, he does not even hate material things because he becomes expert how to utilize everything for Krishna, Krishna consciousness is so nice. We do not hate anything material because we have learned from our disciplic succession how to utilize material things for Krishna’s service. Actually, bhakti means realization of the Supreme, and this means increasing attachment for Him and reforming of detachment or hating of material name and fame.”
This is the test. In the Krishna consciousness movement there is no question of envy, hatred, things like that. Material life means hatred for Krishna and desire for matter. So we have to convert ourselves. When one becomes Krishna conscious actually, he does not even hate material things because he becomes expert how to utilize everything for Krishna, Krishna consciousness is so nice. We do not hate anything material because we have learned from our disciplic succession how to utilize material things for Krishna’s service. Actually, bhakti means realization of the Supreme, and this means increasing attachment for Him and reforming of detachment or hating of material name and fame.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s letter to Sri Govinda, December 25, 1972)
(Srila Prabhupada’s letter to Sri Govinda, December 25, 1972)
The Sound of Nrsimhadeva before He emerges from the Pillar
The Sound of Nrsimhadeva before He emerges from the Pillar
By Urmila Devi Dasi
By Urmila Devi Dasi
CREDITS: Dandavats
From the Bhagavatam (7.8.15-16):
From the Bhagavatam (7.8.15-16):
Then from within the pillar came a fearful sound, which appeared to crack the covering of the universe. O my dear Yudhiṣṭhira, this sound reached even the abodes of the demigods like Lord Brahmā, and when the demigods heard it, they thought, “Oh, now our planets are being destroyed!” While showing his extraordinary prowess, Hiraṇyakaśipu, who desired to kill his own son, heard that wonderful, tumultuous sound, which had never before been heard. Upon hearing the sound, the other leaders of the demons were afraid. None of them could find the origin of that sound in the assembly.
Then from within the pillar came a fearful sound, which appeared to crack the covering of the universe. O my dear Yudhiṣṭhira, this sound reached even the abodes of the demigods like Lord Brahmā, and when the demigods heard it, they thought, “Oh, now our planets are being destroyed!” While showing his extraordinary prowess, Hiraṇyakaśipu, who desired to kill his own son, heard that wonderful, tumultuous sound, which had never before been heard. Upon hearing the sound, the other leaders of the demons were afraid. None of them could find the origin of that sound in the assembly.
In three parts
In three parts
Part 1—from the view of the demon, Hiranyakasipu
Part 1—from the view of the demon, Hiranyakasipu
The pillar shook
The pillar shook
It took
It took
A moment
A moment
For the room to fill with sound.
For the room to fill with sound.
The sound came swift
The sound came swift
Like an unexpected kick
Like an unexpected kick
From a horse.
From a horse.
It filled every corner,
It filled every corner,
Suffocated all other noise,
Suffocated all other noise,
Billows of sound found
Billows of sound found
Every space
Every space
Not yet a face
Not yet a face
Just sound, sound, sound
Just sound, sound, sound
Oh! Demons cried
Oh! Demons cried
We’ve tried
We’ve tried
To find the source
To find the source
No recourse
No recourse
No place to run
No place to run
The sound is everywhere
The sound is everywhere
No escape no shelter
No escape no shelter
He has found me
He has found me
But where is He
But where is He
We are looking—
We are looking—
When we see You,
When we see You,
We’ll challenge Your authority,
We’ll challenge Your authority,
Challenge Your right
Challenge Your right
To disturb the ether
To disturb the ether
By vibrating waves of terror
By vibrating waves of terror
Horror!
Horror!
And who can dare
And who can dare
To horrify me?
To horrify me?
I the supreme,
I the supreme,
The controller of
The controller of
The universal affairs!
The universal affairs!
We are bundled in this sound!
We are bundled in this sound!
Wrapped tight
Wrapped tight
Cocoon night
Cocoon night
Vision obscured
Vision obscured
Blast of hot, hot searing, bleeding
Blast of hot, hot searing, bleeding
From raw wounds
From raw wounds
It’s chilling
It’s chilling
Freezing this
Freezing this
Blood where it oozes
Blood where it oozes
Turn around in all directions
Turn around in all directions
To find the source
To find the source
Bewildered, lost confused
Bewildered, lost confused
We cannot fight
We cannot fight
This all-present sound!
This all-present sound!
Part 2—From the point of view of Prahlad
Part 2—From the point of view of Prahlad
Sweet, gentle purr
Sweet, gentle purr
Soft motor’s whirr
Soft motor’s whirr
Comforting me
Comforting me
Pillar broken with a crack
Pillar broken with a crack
A present opened hastily
A present opened hastily
With glee
With glee
For me
For me
The best surprise
The best surprise
Hidden inside,
Hidden inside,
But first is sound,
But first is sound,
Before vision found.
Before vision found.
The sound complete
The sound complete
Cloud softness meets
Cloud softness meets
Our quivering frame
Our quivering frame
How can I refrain
How can I refrain
From His glories?
From His glories?
I want the bliss
I want the bliss
That is His
That is His
To give,
To give,
By this sound
By this sound
Sound of love
Sound of love
It crushes evil
It crushes evil
For the glory of good
For the glory of good
On and on—
On and on—
It’s eternal sound.
It’s eternal sound.
Part 3—The Story
Part 3—The Story
Roar
Roar
With blood splattered mane
With blood splattered mane
Loud roar
Loud roar
Through the hall
Through the hall
Shaking the universe
Shaking the universe
Touching the sky
Touching the sky
Earthquake vibration
Earthquake vibration
Splintered crack
Splintered crack
Of terrific pillar
Of terrific pillar
Toppling, teetering
Toppling, teetering
On edge splintering
On edge splintering
Snap! It falls
Snap! It falls
God in noise
God in noise
Sound of protection
Sound of protection
Love of child, sweet child
Love of child, sweet child
Still, calm, composed
Still, calm, composed
Serene
Serene
Standing in hopeful surrender
Standing in hopeful surrender
As Nrsimhadeva revealed
As Nrsimhadeva revealed
His ferocious form of anger
His ferocious form of anger
Pierced with shrill laughter
Pierced with shrill laughter
The demigod’s trepidation
The demigod’s trepidation
He played with the demon
He played with the demon
Like a mouse
Like a mouse
Or a wasp
Or a wasp
Flick of nails
Flick of nails
Finished him.
Finished him.
Urmila’s official website: http://urmiladevidasi.org/
Urmila’s blog: http://urmiladasi.com/
THE IMPORTANCE OF FRIENDSHIP AND ASSOCIATION (with replies)
THE IMPORTANCE OF FRIENDSHIP AND ASSOCIATION (with replies)
By Karnamrita dasa
By Karnamrita dasa
I have been thinking today of friendship and its power of influence over us which indicates the secret meaning of association. What drives us to seek friends and close relationships and what will be the effect on us?
I have been thinking today of friendship and its power of influence over us which indicates the secret meaning of association. What drives us to seek friends and close relationships and what will be the effect on us?
Our heart is compared in the scriptures to be like a clear crystal that reflects what is before it. We become like who we associate with closely or intimately. That means that when we open our heart to someone, and they open their heart to us there is an exchange of energy or power–we and they are influenced.
Our heart is compared in the scriptures to be like a clear crystal that reflects what is before it. We become like who we associate with closely or intimately. That means that when we open our heart to someone, and they open their heart to us there is an exchange of energy or power–we and they are influenced.
I meet people all day where I work. Some I have gotten to know well, others casually. I see coming together with someone like two doors facing each other. Behind each door is many pathways leading to different oceans. So two people coming together has the potential of revealing many oceans. We could get lost in our own or another persons’ ocean unless we can uncover the soul, which is what spiritual association can offer us.
I meet people all day where I work. Some I have gotten to know well, others casually. I see coming together with someone like two doors facing each other. Behind each door is many pathways leading to different oceans. So two people coming together has the potential of revealing many oceans. We could get lost in our own or another persons’ ocean unless we can uncover the soul, which is what spiritual association can offer us.
There is an urge of human beings for intimacy—to be able to share their story and who they currently are or are trying to become. Sharing our self means being able to open our door to let someone in. It may be a crack to reveal our particular color of light in the beginning, as we are all eventually guarded as to who we let in—otherwise we may have boundary issues or be taken advantage of.
There is an urge of human beings for intimacy—to be able to share their story and who they currently are or are trying to become. Sharing our self means being able to open our door to let someone in. It may be a crack to reveal our particular color of light in the beginning, as we are all eventually guarded as to who we let in—otherwise we may have boundary issues or be taken advantage of.
Everyone has needs and the desire to be needed. Perhaps the single most important reason many people come together is the desire to be understood. From that we feel we gain strength, can be our self, with the ability to face the world which can seem alien, being inhabited by those other people that don’t really understand us. We doubt our self and want to find someone who believes in us. This doubt or low self esteem drives many people to therapists or spiritual paths. From a spiritual perspective, real self esteem comes from realizing our nature as souls who are part of the Supreme Great. He or we could say—They, as in Radha and Krishna–is (are) our real friend(s).
Everyone has needs and the desire to be needed. Perhaps the single most important reason many people come together is the desire to be understood. From that we feel we gain strength, can be our self, with the ability to face the world which can seem alien, being inhabited by those other people that don’t really understand us. We doubt our self and want to find someone who believes in us. This doubt or low self esteem drives many people to therapists or spiritual paths. From a spiritual perspective, real self esteem comes from realizing our nature as souls who are part of the Supreme Great. He or we could say—They, as in Radha and Krishna–is (are) our real friend(s).
This urge to share the details of our life and it’s journey is fascinating to me. We think this sharing of who we “think we truly are” to be what friendship and intimacy is about—with the addition of giving support and respect to one another, while accepting who the other is without negative judgment. We may give up our family are reputation to find this.
This urge to share the details of our life and it’s journey is fascinating to me. We think this sharing of who we “think we truly are” to be what friendship and intimacy is about—with the addition of giving support and respect to one another, while accepting who the other is without negative judgment. We may give up our family are reputation to find this.
In our both our professional and personal life, we have acquaintances, and close friends. I mentioned sharing the details with another and mutual support and acceptance, though there are other things as well which constitute friendship. What do you think they are?
In our both our professional and personal life, we have acquaintances, and close friends. I mentioned sharing the details with another and mutual support and acceptance, though there are other things as well which constitute friendship. What do you think they are?
Some further ideas I have are as follows.
Some further ideas I have are as follows.
Friendships are about giving and receiving, like a dance where first one person leads, then the other, and sometimes it seems like an invisible partner is directing us. Other than a saint who makes no distinctions between people, seeing everyone as a soul, there is some calculation in who we choose for a friend. We see or feel something in them, some quality, attractiveness, that causes us to want to be with them. We are charmed, fascinated, or at least interested to know more, and have their company. We may see some quality in them we would like to have, or they may be in need and we are drawn to help them in some way. Birds of a feather, flock together, or are attracted in the first place. Or on the downside, we could want to exploit them for our selfish purpose, which when revealed can end the so-called friendship. Sometimes even with a real friend, there may be a mixture of both the good and bad, since we are imperfect human beings and devotees.
Friendships are about giving and receiving, like a dance where first one person leads, then the other, and sometimes it seems like an invisible partner is directing us. Other than a saint who makes no distinctions between people, seeing everyone as a soul, there is some calculation in who we choose for a friend. We see or feel something in them, some quality, attractiveness, that causes us to want to be with them. We are charmed, fascinated, or at least interested to know more, and have their company. We may see some quality in them we would like to have, or they may be in need and we are drawn to help them in some way. Birds of a feather, flock together, or are attracted in the first place. Or on the downside, we could want to exploit them for our selfish purpose, which when revealed can end the so-called friendship. Sometimes even with a real friend, there may be a mixture of both the good and bad, since we are imperfect human beings and devotees.
Most people are hungry for relationships, either as friends or lovers. Since we have forgotten our original, primal love with Krishna and our true spiritual self, we seek the fulfillment of our eternal needs through the flesh, which is our conception of who we are. Even in material relationships we can gain much and learn more about our self because people are like mirrors that reflect back to us what we like or dislike, or want or hate. We devotees of Krishna or anyone on a spiritual path can also gain those things from relationships, yet more importantly in spiritual relationships we are reminded of our true spiritual self interest, and object of love.
Most people are hungry for relationships, either as friends or lovers. Since we have forgotten our original, primal love with Krishna and our true spiritual self, we seek the fulfillment of our eternal needs through the flesh, which is our conception of who we are. Even in material relationships we can gain much and learn more about our self because people are like mirrors that reflect back to us what we like or dislike, or want or hate. We devotees of Krishna or anyone on a spiritual path can also gain those things from relationships, yet more importantly in spiritual relationships we are reminded of our true spiritual self interest, and object of love.
Friendship or good relationships are synergistic, there is more substance in the combination than there is with one person alone. Some metaphors have come to mind this morning regarding this effect of friendship. One is that friendship is like two flowers cross pollinating each other—helping each other to realize their potential and fullness. Or we provide encouraging words, support, or our practical insights about KC which act like fertilizer to help one another grow and move forward, or upward. Sometimes two creepers may intertwine in such a way to also help each other grow individually upward, moving off the ground and on to a mighty oak tree where they go higher than they ever could alone and touch the stars, and beyond to Goloka. So we can think of sankirtana (group chanting of the holy name) or the power of saintly association with devotees as the perfection of friendship and association.
Friendship or good relationships are synergistic, there is more substance in the combination than there is with one person alone. Some metaphors have come to mind this morning regarding this effect of friendship. One is that friendship is like two flowers cross pollinating each other—helping each other to realize their potential and fullness. Or we provide encouraging words, support, or our practical insights about KC which act like fertilizer to help one another grow and move forward, or upward. Sometimes two creepers may intertwine in such a way to also help each other grow individually upward, moving off the ground and on to a mighty oak tree where they go higher than they ever could alone and touch the stars, and beyond to Goloka. So we can think of sankirtana (group chanting of the holy name) or the power of saintly association with devotees as the perfection of friendship and association.
This is not meant to be an exhaustive, definitive essay on friendship and association as it is my usual method of writing flow. I am quite aware that many of my posts here are very basic, yet I hope they are relevant to devotees’ lives, and provide food for thought and reflection. Perhaps you could share with me and the other readers, your insights about what friendships are to you, and the meaning of all types of association. Discerning what positive and negative association with others is important as most of us here know. We have learned that spiritual advancement is helped by first associating with devotees in openhearted friendship (and in the case of a guru, with friendly reverence) and secondly by avoiding intimate dealings with the unfaithful. Therefore this is an important topic to understand and discuss, even though it might seem very basic.
This is not meant to be an exhaustive, definitive essay on friendship and association as it is my usual method of writing flow. I am quite aware that many of my posts here are very basic, yet I hope they are relevant to devotees’ lives, and provide food for thought and reflection. Perhaps you could share with me and the other readers, your insights about what friendships are to you, and the meaning of all types of association. Discerning what positive and negative association with others is important as most of us here know. We have learned that spiritual advancement is helped by first associating with devotees in openhearted friendship (and in the case of a guru, with friendly reverence) and secondly by avoiding intimate dealings with the unfaithful. Therefore this is an important topic to understand and discuss, even though it might seem very basic.
REPLIES:
REPLIES:
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
Wow! Karnamrta Prabhu, you have really outdone yourself with this beautiful essay. Friendship is a very important topic. We are enjoined to make friends with devotees. “tad adhinesu. . .prema-maitri-krpopeksa yah karoti sah madhyama” (S.B. 11.2.46)
Wow! Karnamrta Prabhu, you have really outdone yourself with this beautiful essay. Friendship is a very important topic. We are enjoined to make friends with devotees. “tad adhinesu. . .prema-maitri-krpopeksa yah karoti sah madhyama” (S.B. 11.2.46)
One thing very special about the bhakti path is that it is followed in the association of friendly devotees. Associating with devotees reflects our understanding of God, not as something impersonal or alone, but full of playful pastimes with innumerable, blissful associates.
One thing very special about the bhakti path is that it is followed in the association of friendly devotees. Associating with devotees reflects our understanding of God, not as something impersonal or alone, but full of playful pastimes with innumerable, blissful associates.
In the Bhagavad Gita, there are various verses in which Lord Krishna extols the virtue of living in a secluded place (e.g., B.G. 6.10), the idea being that to make spiritual progress, one has to give up the association of worldly-minded people. The yogis can go out alone into the forest because they know Krishna or Paramatma to be their friend. However, it must be terribly difficult.
In the Bhagavad Gita, there are various verses in which Lord Krishna extols the virtue of living in a secluded place (e.g., B.G. 6.10), the idea being that to make spiritual progress, one has to give up the association of worldly-minded people. The yogis can go out alone into the forest because they know Krishna or Paramatma to be their friend. However, it must be terribly difficult.
When I was a new devotee, struggling to hear my rounds, I sometimes would fantasize during japa period about going off alone to practice Krishna consciousness in the wilderness somewhere, now that I knew how to meditate. What a fool I was to think that I would have had the slightest chance outside the association of devotees. Why on earth was I thinking like that?
When I was a new devotee, struggling to hear my rounds, I sometimes would fantasize during japa period about going off alone to practice Krishna consciousness in the wilderness somewhere, now that I knew how to meditate. What a fool I was to think that I would have had the slightest chance outside the association of devotees. Why on earth was I thinking like that?
In the Purport to B.G. 4.10, Srila Prabhupada talks about how impersonalists are fearful of retaining personality after liberation. He tells us we have to get rid of this fear of our spiritual personal identity. By the slow process of devotional service under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, we can become free from all material attachment, from the fearfulness of our individual spiritual personality, and from the frustrations (from encountering contradictory specuative philosophies) resulting in voidism. Then we can attain the Lord’s abode.
In the Purport to B.G. 4.10, Srila Prabhupada talks about how impersonalists are fearful of retaining personality after liberation. He tells us we have to get rid of this fear of our spiritual personal identity. By the slow process of devotional service under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, we can become free from all material attachment, from the fearfulness of our individual spiritual personality, and from the frustrations (from encountering contradictory specuative philosophies) resulting in voidism. Then we can attain the Lord’s abode.
“Perhaps the single most important reason many people come together is the desire to be understood. From that we feel we gain strength, can be our self, with the ability to face the world which can seem alien, being inhabited by those other people that don’t really understand us. ”
“Perhaps the single most important reason many people come together is the desire to be understood. From that we feel we gain strength, can be our self, with the ability to face the world which can seem alien, being inhabited by those other people that don’t really understand us. ”
Yes. This material world is really inhabited by people who don’t understand us (and want to exploit us and do not really care about us). Only the devotees know “who we really are” and can engage with us in the six loving exchanges. Only they can really “get” us, because we really, truly are “krsnera nitya das.”
Yes. This material world is really inhabited by people who don’t understand us (and want to exploit us and do not really care about us). Only the devotees know “who we really are” and can engage with us in the six loving exchanges. Only they can really “get” us, because we really, truly are “krsnera nitya das.”
soma108 says :
soma108 says :
Dear Karnamrita Prabhu,
Dear Karnamrita Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for your thoughts and insight on relationships and their various facets. Association is very important. One time Govinda dasi wanted to live alone and left the temple in Hawaii and Srila Prabhupada was not encouraging this. He did not want her to live alone and he always emphasized the importance of association. He said we are not meant to live alone.
Thank you for your thoughts and insight on relationships and their various facets. Association is very important. One time Govinda dasi wanted to live alone and left the temple in Hawaii and Srila Prabhupada was not encouraging this. He did not want her to live alone and he always emphasized the importance of association. He said we are not meant to live alone.
I myself have to work a regular job and in my daily activities have various relationships. There are a few people I have come to know who are receptive to Krsna Consciousness and the process of meditation and devotional service. However, there are others that I maintain a respectful friendship, however, more distant.
I myself have to work a regular job and in my daily activities have various relationships. There are a few people I have come to know who are receptive to Krsna Consciousness and the process of meditation and devotional service. However, there are others that I maintain a respectful friendship, however, more distant.
Yes, we are in these human physical bodies and are full of desires. By association we can be encouraged spiritually and emotionally, therefore, to choose who we associate with is very important. We can become energized, grow and flourish by the proper spiritual association, or we can be drained and disillusioned by the wrong association.
Yes, we are in these human physical bodies and are full of desires. By association we can be encouraged spiritually and emotionally, therefore, to choose who we associate with is very important. We can become energized, grow and flourish by the proper spiritual association, or we can be drained and disillusioned by the wrong association.
Since I am older now and have survived through the years, my past experiences remind me of my real focus points and what is more beneficial and long term to me wherein I can gravitate more so to positive association. To share one’s experiences and help another person is important. I believe that just as it is important to preach to people about Krsna it is very important to give of our self to others what we have learned in our personal experiences. To be an encouragement and impetus for growth, knowledge and strength.
Since I am older now and have survived through the years, my past experiences remind me of my real focus points and what is more beneficial and long term to me wherein I can gravitate more so to positive association. To share one’s experiences and help another person is important. I believe that just as it is important to preach to people about Krsna it is very important to give of our self to others what we have learned in our personal experiences. To be an encouragement and impetus for growth, knowledge and strength.
I like your comment that “friendships are about giving and receiving….”. That is so true. By giving and receiving (and sharing) we help each other genuinely grow. It gravitates from sincerity. If someone is sincere and honest by their endeavors all positive things fructify.
I like your comment that “friendships are about giving and receiving….”. That is so true. By giving and receiving (and sharing) we help each other genuinely grow. It gravitates from sincerity. If someone is sincere and honest by their endeavors all positive things fructify.
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krishna.
Your servant,
Your servant,
Omkara devi dasi
Omkara devi dasi
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
They say lawyers are buried 12 feet underground, because . . . “deep down, they are really good people.” :-)
They say lawyers are buried 12 feet underground, because . . . “deep down, they are really good people.” :-)
Really, isn’t everyone a really good person, deep down far enough? By true nature, everyone is a devotee, part and parcel of Krishna.
Really, isn’t everyone a really good person, deep down far enough? By true nature, everyone is a devotee, part and parcel of Krishna.
But somehow, due to forgetfulness of Krishna, communication can be lacking, and friendship on that deep, emotional level goes missing.
But somehow, due to forgetfulness of Krishna, communication can be lacking, and friendship on that deep, emotional level goes missing.
We find that real communication and fellowship within kirtans and bhagavatam class, because it is during those times that we are really who we are “deep down”.
We find that real communication and fellowship within kirtans and bhagavatam class, because it is during those times that we are really who we are “deep down”.
Suta Goswami congratulated the sages for enquiring about Krishna, because only discussions about Krishna can fully satisfy the self. Otherwise, so many questions and answers are going on, so many discussions and superficial friendships, but it never really gets “deep down.”
Suta Goswami congratulated the sages for enquiring about Krishna, because only discussions about Krishna can fully satisfy the self. Otherwise, so many questions and answers are going on, so many discussions and superficial friendships, but it never really gets “deep down.”
Oh, materialistic people can get really serious about their so-called soul-mates, and Shakespeare’s star-crossed lovers can end up committing suicide for each other and so on, but when the basis of friendship is the external mind and senses and our various asat-dharmas, it can never really, truly be “deep down.”
Oh, materialistic people can get really serious about their so-called soul-mates, and Shakespeare’s star-crossed lovers can end up committing suicide for each other and so on, but when the basis of friendship is the external mind and senses and our various asat-dharmas, it can never really, truly be “deep down.”
But sometimes we hear devotees complaining about “impersonalism” and/or a lack of friendly dealings within our spiritual communities. This is a serious concern.
But sometimes we hear devotees complaining about “impersonalism” and/or a lack of friendly dealings within our spiritual communities. This is a serious concern.
Neophytes, or materialistic devotees, worship Krishna in the temple, but do not know how to form deep, serious, spiritually-satisfying friendly relations with Krishna’s devotees.
Neophytes, or materialistic devotees, worship Krishna in the temple, but do not know how to form deep, serious, spiritually-satisfying friendly relations with Krishna’s devotees.
We might be able to repeat the formulas of spiritual instructions from Prabhupada’s books (a good start), but in order to really connect with other devotees and derive “great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing” about Krishna, we need to really digest these formulas and also know how to listen to other devotees with a proper service attitude and respond sympathetically to their devotional moods and intentions.
We might be able to repeat the formulas of spiritual instructions from Prabhupada’s books (a good start), but in order to really connect with other devotees and derive “great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing” about Krishna, we need to really digest these formulas and also know how to listen to other devotees with a proper service attitude and respond sympathetically to their devotional moods and intentions.
The “urge to share the details of our life and it’s journey” can be truly fulfiled if we share with knowing devotees about each others’ journeys toward Krishna consciousness. We can share our realizations, and properly raise doubts or problems for each other to help solve.
The “urge to share the details of our life and it’s journey” can be truly fulfiled if we share with knowing devotees about each others’ journeys toward Krishna consciousness. We can share our realizations, and properly raise doubts or problems for each other to help solve.
Everyone seeks true friendship and love. Krishna consciousness is the only means of finding it. Only Krishna and His devotees are truly worthy friends. As George Harrison says, “All you need is love (Krishna)”
Everyone seeks true friendship and love. Krishna consciousness is the only means of finding it. Only Krishna and His devotees are truly worthy friends. As George Harrison says, “All you need is love (Krishna)”
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
Friendship and love are among the major themes of literature. The need to find”the meeting of true minds” is powerful and universal.
Friendship and love are among the major themes of literature. The need to find”the meeting of true minds” is powerful and universal.
In popular culture, love songs and movies confuse the drive to find true love with the not-very-civilized mating behavior of contemporary, nondevotee culture. This runs the gamut from pop music and Harlequin Romances to the so-called great novels (e.g., Tolstoi’s “Anna Karenina.”) As a devotee I find it hard to relate to the heroes and heroines, their concerns and interests.
In popular culture, love songs and movies confuse the drive to find true love with the not-very-civilized mating behavior of contemporary, nondevotee culture. This runs the gamut from pop music and Harlequin Romances to the so-called great novels (e.g., Tolstoi’s “Anna Karenina.”) As a devotee I find it hard to relate to the heroes and heroines, their concerns and interests.
Even when the characters are somewhat religious, they never seem to be as likeable as real devotees who attend morning program and read Bhagavatam every day. They just have too many mundane and even sinful concerns. (It always shocks me when the hero sits down at the dinner table and starts carving a big pot roast or something). It is not a mere cultural matter over vegetarianism; their entire value system is “off”.
Even when the characters are somewhat religious, they never seem to be as likeable as real devotees who attend morning program and read Bhagavatam every day. They just have too many mundane and even sinful concerns. (It always shocks me when the hero sits down at the dinner table and starts carving a big pot roast or something). It is not a mere cultural matter over vegetarianism; their entire value system is “off”.
Plato’s “Symposium” is an interesting discourse on love, but it is really culturally exotic. Athenian society in the so-called Golden Age, at least as portayed in this classic dialogue, seems strangely libertine and homosexual. And yet the conclusion (explained by a prostitute), that there is a supreme object of love, the form of beauty, whom having once been beheld completely captivates the beholder, who thereafter is never atracted to the lesser forms of this temporary world, sounds familiar to a devotee. Were they really talking about Krishna?
Plato’s “Symposium” is an interesting discourse on love, but it is really culturally exotic. Athenian society in the so-called Golden Age, at least as portayed in this classic dialogue, seems strangely libertine and homosexual. And yet the conclusion (explained by a prostitute), that there is a supreme object of love, the form of beauty, whom having once been beheld completely captivates the beholder, who thereafter is never atracted to the lesser forms of this temporary world, sounds familiar to a devotee. Were they really talking about Krishna?
Lord Gauranga calls, “I have descended just to save you. Other than Myself, who is your friend?”
Lord Gauranga calls, “I have descended just to save you. Other than Myself, who is your friend?”
Of course the Srimad Bhagavatam is the greatest and original love story, with full exposition of the plight of the conditioned soul in material bondage and the true object of love and how that love is expressed in full spiritual freedom. Once we have gotten a little taste of that, it is no wonder we find mundane songs and stories pale and vicious.
Of course the Srimad Bhagavatam is the greatest and original love story, with full exposition of the plight of the conditioned soul in material bondage and the true object of love and how that love is expressed in full spiritual freedom. Once we have gotten a little taste of that, it is no wonder we find mundane songs and stories pale and vicious.
But are we as neophyte devotees sometimes “impersonal” and unfriendly to each other? Callous to each other’s difficulties and struggles?
But are we as neophyte devotees sometimes “impersonal” and unfriendly to each other? Callous to each other’s difficulties and struggles?
I remember back in the late 1970s sometime, we heard (in Vancouver) that some devotees in L.A. had started going bowling together one night a week. We thought, “Scandalous!” :-)
I remember back in the late 1970s sometime, we heard (in Vancouver) that some devotees in L.A. had started going bowling together one night a week. We thought, “Scandalous!” :-)
It seems so innocent to me now, and was probably just meant to counteract the “I’m not going to listen to your prajalpa Prabhu” attitude some of us projected as enthusiastic but self-centered new devotees.
It seems so innocent to me now, and was probably just meant to counteract the “I’m not going to listen to your prajalpa Prabhu” attitude some of us projected as enthusiastic but self-centered new devotees.
Kesava Krsna dasa says :
Kesava Krsna dasa says :
Yes, this is such an important and wide ranging topic. We see how attempts are made in various Nama-hatta groups to form ‘buddies’, or at least to have a close friend in whom to confide.
Yes, this is such an important and wide ranging topic. We see how attempts are made in various Nama-hatta groups to form ‘buddies’, or at least to have a close friend in whom to confide.
I find that when a devotee engages in some service for the temple, the productivity increases when doing it in the company of close friends. It is no crime to be surrounded by like-minded temperaments and to forge ahead with a mission to please the Lord in such company enables the attainment of goals.
I find that when a devotee engages in some service for the temple, the productivity increases when doing it in the company of close friends. It is no crime to be surrounded by like-minded temperaments and to forge ahead with a mission to please the Lord in such company enables the attainment of goals.
To have at least one or two confidential friends in spiritual life is most essential. Such understanding friends are available when you need them and can be embarrassingly lavish in their help in all sorts of situations. One is truly blessed to have genuine buddies, and even more so, to serve the vaisnava community and try to please Krishna in that company.
To have at least one or two confidential friends in spiritual life is most essential. Such understanding friends are available when you need them and can be embarrassingly lavish in their help in all sorts of situations. One is truly blessed to have genuine buddies, and even more so, to serve the vaisnava community and try to please Krishna in that company.
I think a test of a great friendship is one where you can pick up the phone any time of the day, and say, “Hey Prabhuji, I just had this realization after reading such and such a passage from the Bhagavatam; what’s your take on it?” To be able to talk Krishna Katha like this certainly produces – “tusyanti ca ramanti ca – it gives satisfaction and bliss (BG 10.9)
I think a test of a great friendship is one where you can pick up the phone any time of the day, and say, “Hey Prabhuji, I just had this realization after reading such and such a passage from the Bhagavatam; what’s your take on it?” To be able to talk Krishna Katha like this certainly produces – “tusyanti ca ramanti ca – it gives satisfaction and bliss (BG 10.9)
Is there any wonder why devotee association is the highest form of socialisation and can even ease the way back home, back to Godhead.
Is there any wonder why devotee association is the highest form of socialisation and can even ease the way back home, back to Godhead.
Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.
Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.
ccd says :
ccd says :
I was just walking down the street and ran into a devotee I have not seen in years. Uddhava. He was telling me how these days its rare for him when someone just addresses him, “Haribol!” – he said he went into Govindas in Dublin and Goloka said “Haribol” and it took him a while to gather that it was a greeting… But he said that while at work he is often saying “Jaya” in exactly the approving manner he used to. So some things do not change. It is not only that devotees of the highest calibre need association, it is at every level, and I am not saying that Uddhava is not at this category, he probably is, as he was for years a leader and was running a bhakti-vrksa program really well. But it was really enlivening to meet him on the street, he caught me on my chanting break too. He said that he is keeping very busy with his work “Keeps me out of trouble”.. he said. Well devotee association should also ‘keep one out of trouble” – that is what it is supposed to do. What to speak of friendship too. That is possibly the best part of the meaning of our movement, a devotee friendship..
I was just walking down the street and ran into a devotee I have not seen in years. Uddhava. He was telling me how these days its rare for him when someone just addresses him, “Haribol!” – he said he went into Govindas in Dublin and Goloka said “Haribol” and it took him a while to gather that it was a greeting… But he said that while at work he is often saying “Jaya” in exactly the approving manner he used to. So some things do not change. It is not only that devotees of the highest calibre need association, it is at every level, and I am not saying that Uddhava is not at this category, he probably is, as he was for years a leader and was running a bhakti-vrksa program really well. But it was really enlivening to meet him on the street, he caught me on my chanting break too. He said that he is keeping very busy with his work “Keeps me out of trouble”.. he said. Well devotee association should also ‘keep one out of trouble” – that is what it is supposed to do. What to speak of friendship too. That is possibly the best part of the meaning of our movement, a devotee friendship..
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
“That is possibly the best part of the meaning of our movement, a devotee friendship.”
“That is possibly the best part of the meaning of our movement, a devotee friendship.”
Yes, CCd, this reminds me of Srila Prabhupada’s Purport to Text 4 of NOI:
Yes, CCd, this reminds me of Srila Prabhupada’s Purport to Text 4 of NOI:
“In the previous verse, Srila Rupa Goswami advised that one should renouce worldly association and keep company with the devotees (sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh). The International Society for Krishna Consciousness has been established to facilitated these six kinds of loving exchanges between devotees.”
“In the previous verse, Srila Rupa Goswami advised that one should renouce worldly association and keep company with the devotees (sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh). The International Society for Krishna Consciousness has been established to facilitated these six kinds of loving exchanges between devotees.”
And later in the same Purport: “The life of the Krsna conscious society is nourished by these six types of loving exchange among the members; therefore people must be given the chance to associate with the devotees of ISKCON because simply by reciprocating in the six ways mentioned above an ordinary man can fully revive his dormant Krishna consciousness.”
And later in the same Purport: “The life of the Krsna conscious society is nourished by these six types of loving exchange among the members; therefore people must be given the chance to associate with the devotees of ISKCON because simply by reciprocating in the six ways mentioned above an ordinary man can fully revive his dormant Krishna consciousness.”
A true friend is someone you can rely on through thick and thin, who will never disparage you behind your back, reveal your secrets to others, betray you, exploit you, compete with you, hurt you. An honest well-wisher always has your welfare at heart. Although you make a mistake or have some weakness, a tested friend will not reject you, but will try to help you overcome it and continue to love you.
A true friend is someone you can rely on through thick and thin, who will never disparage you behind your back, reveal your secrets to others, betray you, exploit you, compete with you, hurt you. An honest well-wisher always has your welfare at heart. Although you make a mistake or have some weakness, a tested friend will not reject you, but will try to help you overcome it and continue to love you.
The Shakespearean sonnet says “love is not love that alters when it alteration finds”. . . It is “an ever fixed mark, that looks on tempests and is never shaken, it is the star to every wand’ring bark whose worth’s unknown although its height is taken”
The Shakespearean sonnet says “love is not love that alters when it alteration finds”. . . It is “an ever fixed mark, that looks on tempests and is never shaken, it is the star to every wand’ring bark whose worth’s unknown although its height is taken”
We do have a need to develop such strong friendships, and as devotees we must form such friendships with devotees (and renounce worldly association). The original, dearmost intimate friend of everyone is Krishna (who else can truly be a worthy friend?), and the society of devotees facilitates friendly dealings or loving exchanges with Krishna and His friends.
We do have a need to develop such strong friendships, and as devotees we must form such friendships with devotees (and renounce worldly association). The original, dearmost intimate friend of everyone is Krishna (who else can truly be a worthy friend?), and the society of devotees facilitates friendly dealings or loving exchanges with Krishna and His friends.
But is there a conflict there? As beginning devotees we may sometimes still harbor worldly affection. How can we be steady, reliable friends to each other, and at the same time strictly renounce all worldly association?
But is there a conflict there? As beginning devotees we may sometimes still harbor worldly affection. How can we be steady, reliable friends to each other, and at the same time strictly renounce all worldly association?
There may be a danger in the life of a sadhaka that too much austerity can make him or her grumpy, hard-hearted, faultfinding or judgmental of other aspiring sadhakas, impatient, unfriendly. Then it will be hard to form friendships.
There may be a danger in the life of a sadhaka that too much austerity can make him or her grumpy, hard-hearted, faultfinding or judgmental of other aspiring sadhakas, impatient, unfriendly. Then it will be hard to form friendships.
But a broad-minded devotee can love his friend even (or especially) in a time of weakness, and patiently give the support and encouragement he needs.
But a broad-minded devotee can love his friend even (or especially) in a time of weakness, and patiently give the support and encouragement he needs.
Karnamrita.das says :
Karnamrita.das says :
Thank you all for your insightful comments. Like many topics this is indeed a deep one, with many perspectives and facets.
Thank you all for your insightful comments. Like many topics this is indeed a deep one, with many perspectives and facets.
One thing I would like to add is how rare such really close friends are—the kind you both share your inner life with, or who will be there for us, and we for them. Perhaps it depends on one’s personality and how social one is. I also think it is easier for women to have more friends, being in general more relationship oriented then men.
One thing I would like to add is how rare such really close friends are—the kind you both share your inner life with, or who will be there for us, and we for them. Perhaps it depends on one’s personality and how social one is. I also think it is easier for women to have more friends, being in general more relationship oriented then men.
Personally I have so many devotees I know and like and even who I have had a good friendship before we moved away from one another, yet my really close friends are very few. This is not a lamentation, but my observation. I see many reasons for this in my life. First I am a bit reclusive, and although I work at a store where I meet many people, my time at home is solitary. For many of us–especially in the West–our spouse is our best friend–the person who knows us the best, and who we can confide in.
Personally I have so many devotees I know and like and even who I have had a good friendship before we moved away from one another, yet my really close friends are very few. This is not a lamentation, but my observation. I see many reasons for this in my life. First I am a bit reclusive, and although I work at a store where I meet many people, my time at home is solitary. For many of us–especially in the West–our spouse is our best friend–the person who knows us the best, and who we can confide in.
And for others? As I think Thoreau said, “If you want a friend, be a friend”, so having close friendships take time and energy, and quality time spent together in work or service. This is not so easy in today’s busy world with more then a few devotees. We tend to make time for what is important to us.
And for others? As I think Thoreau said, “If you want a friend, be a friend”, so having close friendships take time and energy, and quality time spent together in work or service. This is not so easy in today’s busy world with more then a few devotees. We tend to make time for what is important to us.
I think it is a common understanding that we have to make other times to come together besides the Temple programs, which, as important as they are, are often not a time to really connect with other devotees. How do we have more “fellowship” with each other, for new people or even older devotees in the life of devotion?I remember reading years ago something by Rohini-nandana of England who spoke of a guest who told him that he thought the KC philosophy was a great one, but he didn’t see any real fellowship between the devotees—meaning personal dealings and close friendships. I think many of us know what he was referring to.
I think it is a common understanding that we have to make other times to come together besides the Temple programs, which, as important as they are, are often not a time to really connect with other devotees. How do we have more “fellowship” with each other, for new people or even older devotees in the life of devotion?I remember reading years ago something by Rohini-nandana of England who spoke of a guest who told him that he thought the KC philosophy was a great one, but he didn’t see any real fellowship between the devotees—meaning personal dealings and close friendships. I think many of us know what he was referring to.
So we have the type of association where we dive deep into the nectar of the KC philosophy and lila of the Lord, and we have the type of association where we share who we are on the path, the human being type issues we may be working on, and our fears, problems, desires, dreams, and highest aspirations. Both are very essential for meaningful friendships, though we may not have both sides with everyone. We want to share Krishna with our dear friend, and also our humanity, or who we are in this body. If we can, I would say that is a very special friend!
So we have the type of association where we dive deep into the nectar of the KC philosophy and lila of the Lord, and we have the type of association where we share who we are on the path, the human being type issues we may be working on, and our fears, problems, desires, dreams, and highest aspirations. Both are very essential for meaningful friendships, though we may not have both sides with everyone. We want to share Krishna with our dear friend, and also our humanity, or who we are in this body. If we can, I would say that is a very special friend!
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
“We want to share Krishna with our dear friend, and also our humanity, or who we are in this body.”
“We want to share Krishna with our dear friend, and also our humanity, or who we are in this body.”
Yes, Karnamrta Prabhu, this is something I love about this article and many of your other articles, your recognition of dealing with our humanity.
Yes, Karnamrta Prabhu, this is something I love about this article and many of your other articles, your recognition of dealing with our humanity.
The lack of “fellowship” that some people have noticed and you are referring to may come from an idea some of us have somehow gotten that we are supposed to simply ignore or transcend “our humanity, or who we are in this body.”
The lack of “fellowship” that some people have noticed and you are referring to may come from an idea some of us have somehow gotten that we are supposed to simply ignore or transcend “our humanity, or who we are in this body.”
I know I still have a touch of that misconception. I cannot seem to escape it. We were talking about this a little bit over in the thread on abandoning our “svadharma”, with the sanatanist.
I know I still have a touch of that misconception. I cannot seem to escape it. We were talking about this a little bit over in the thread on abandoning our “svadharma”, with the sanatanist.
Sometimes we talk about it in terms of “premature renunciation.” I need to hear more about it. I do not know precisely where it is discussed very thoroughly and directly in Prabhupada’s books, at least not all neatly wrapped up in bite-sized morsels. (Maybe someone can suggest some passages?)
Sometimes we talk about it in terms of “premature renunciation.” I need to hear more about it. I do not know precisely where it is discussed very thoroughly and directly in Prabhupada’s books, at least not all neatly wrapped up in bite-sized morsels. (Maybe someone can suggest some passages?)
It seems to be an impersonalist idea that we can simply “ignore who we are in this body.” This could be related to the “jagan mithya” idea of the mayavadis: “My body and mind and senses are not real, and to be a transcendentalist requires me to just ignore them.”
It seems to be an impersonalist idea that we can simply “ignore who we are in this body.” This could be related to the “jagan mithya” idea of the mayavadis: “My body and mind and senses are not real, and to be a transcendentalist requires me to just ignore them.”
That is not only impractical and unrealistic; it just is not true. Our body and mind and senses, although composed of Krishna’s illusory, material energy, are real, and can be used in Krishna’s service and spiritualized or “Krishna-ized”.
That is not only impractical and unrealistic; it just is not true. Our body and mind and senses, although composed of Krishna’s illusory, material energy, are real, and can be used in Krishna’s service and spiritualized or “Krishna-ized”.
We have to overcome our lower natures (often it involves struggle), but Krishna recommends regulating the senses and dovetailing our propensities in works of devotion. Yes, we can overcome material nature by (and only by) surrendering to Krishna, but it is a gradual process and Krishna usually does not ask us to go against our nature. “Nigraha kim karisyasi?”
We have to overcome our lower natures (often it involves struggle), but Krishna recommends regulating the senses and dovetailing our propensities in works of devotion. Yes, we can overcome material nature by (and only by) surrendering to Krishna, but it is a gradual process and Krishna usually does not ask us to go against our nature. “Nigraha kim karisyasi?”
Even for fully mature devotees whose bodies and senses are totally spiritual, they are going to have some special deep friendships and affinity groups, as we see in Krishna’s lila. Those relationships are completely spiritual and only seem to contradict the brahma bhuta ideal of being equally disposed (“samye sthitam”) and friendly to all (“suhrdam sarva dehinam”).
Even for fully mature devotees whose bodies and senses are totally spiritual, they are going to have some special deep friendships and affinity groups, as we see in Krishna’s lila. Those relationships are completely spiritual and only seem to contradict the brahma bhuta ideal of being equally disposed (“samye sthitam”) and friendly to all (“suhrdam sarva dehinam”).
Eternally liberated devotees have relationships with family, friends, gurus, etc., based on spiritual identity. Arjuna’s refusal to kill his loved ones was maya in an unusual circumstance, but he normally had pure, spiritual affection for them.
Eternally liberated devotees have relationships with family, friends, gurus, etc., based on spiritual identity. Arjuna’s refusal to kill his loved ones was maya in an unusual circumstance, but he normally had pure, spiritual affection for them.
Karnamrita.das says :
Karnamrita.das says :
Certainly the general subject of immature renunciation is there in many places. In the first Canto of the Bhagavatam Prabhupada describes the inferior position of one who takes sannyas merely due to the frustration of married life—in other words, without a higher calling. I would say that to formally accept the sannyas order (especially at a young age) one must be called to that. As far as renunciation for everyone, most of us know the Gita verse in the second chapter where Krishna speaks of experiencing a higher taste (2.59) in order to be fixed in renunciation of sense enjoyment. Or in the 3rd chapter vs 6 where he goes so far to say that if we make a show of renunciation while still absorbed in thinking of sense enjoyment, then we are a pretender or hypocrite.
Certainly the general subject of immature renunciation is there in many places. In the first Canto of the Bhagavatam Prabhupada describes the inferior position of one who takes sannyas merely due to the frustration of married life—in other words, without a higher calling. I would say that to formally accept the sannyas order (especially at a young age) one must be called to that. As far as renunciation for everyone, most of us know the Gita verse in the second chapter where Krishna speaks of experiencing a higher taste (2.59) in order to be fixed in renunciation of sense enjoyment. Or in the 3rd chapter vs 6 where he goes so far to say that if we make a show of renunciation while still absorbed in thinking of sense enjoyment, then we are a pretender or hypocrite.
My main reference for “immature renunciation” is my own life, and also observing in the early days of the movement so many of my contemporaries. Interestingly, our immaturity and actually naivete served us in some ways. If I had to accept initiation today and vow to follow the four principles, I don’t know if I could. Prabhupada and all the great teachers simplify the deep, esoteric philosophy of KC, and make it seem self evident and easy, so we can take it up with enthusiasm. Eventually we discover how difficult it really is, and how inconceivable so many things are. By then it is too late to go back, and we are on again on the path of Bhakti. Some devotees have noted that “preaching and siddhanta” are not always the same. Yet if the goal is to bring people to Krishna, then the end justifies the means.
My main reference for “immature renunciation” is my own life, and also observing in the early days of the movement so many of my contemporaries. Interestingly, our immaturity and actually naivete served us in some ways. If I had to accept initiation today and vow to follow the four principles, I don’t know if I could. Prabhupada and all the great teachers simplify the deep, esoteric philosophy of KC, and make it seem self evident and easy, so we can take it up with enthusiasm. Eventually we discover how difficult it really is, and how inconceivable so many things are. By then it is too late to go back, and we are on again on the path of Bhakti. Some devotees have noted that “preaching and siddhanta” are not always the same. Yet if the goal is to bring people to Krishna, then the end justifies the means.
In my experience it really takes a long time to really understand oneself in the body. I didn’t really realize this was important until I had been a devotee for 12 years and was 32. It would have helped to know this earlier and had role models to demonstrate it. Anyway, everything happens for a reason, and that was my path. Never-the-less I am rather intensely passionate about the topic of being real and acting according to ones’ nature, and I do my to speak and write about it. There is certainly “emergency devotional service” where we may act in ways we might not ordinarily for the service of Shri Guru and Gauranga. Yet most of us can’t major in that as many of us did for years under the shakti of Prabhupada during his physical manifestation. I know I received a lot of spiritual blessings during those wild times, though it later took many years to situate myself in my ashrama and work.
In my experience it really takes a long time to really understand oneself in the body. I didn’t really realize this was important until I had been a devotee for 12 years and was 32. It would have helped to know this earlier and had role models to demonstrate it. Anyway, everything happens for a reason, and that was my path. Never-the-less I am rather intensely passionate about the topic of being real and acting according to ones’ nature, and I do my to speak and write about it. There is certainly “emergency devotional service” where we may act in ways we might not ordinarily for the service of Shri Guru and Gauranga. Yet most of us can’t major in that as many of us did for years under the shakti of Prabhupada during his physical manifestation. I know I received a lot of spiritual blessings during those wild times, though it later took many years to situate myself in my ashrama and work.
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
The concept of “who we are in the body” is a fascinating one.
The concept of “who we are in the body” is a fascinating one.
The idea that we have a particular varna due to the family we take our birth in has been discredited by Srila Prabhupada.
The idea that we have a particular varna due to the family we take our birth in has been discredited by Srila Prabhupada.
On the other hand, my American conditioning is full of ideas that I can “be whoever I want to be.” We are supposed to be able to invent ourselves, and even our biology is not supposed to determine our destiny (or so they tell us). That seems to be taking things to the opposite extreme.
On the other hand, my American conditioning is full of ideas that I can “be whoever I want to be.” We are supposed to be able to invent ourselves, and even our biology is not supposed to determine our destiny (or so they tell us). That seems to be taking things to the opposite extreme.
I am always amazed to hear stories of people overcoming their supposed destiny. O.J. Simpson wore leg braces as a child, but in true “Forrest Gump” fashion he became a Heisman trophy-winning running back. (He had a less-heroic destiny to fulfill later, it seems…)
I am always amazed to hear stories of people overcoming their supposed destiny. O.J. Simpson wore leg braces as a child, but in true “Forrest Gump” fashion he became a Heisman trophy-winning running back. (He had a less-heroic destiny to fulfill later, it seems…)
Nevertheless, some things about us are just bred in the bone and do not change very easily. We have to learn to how to engage those aspects of our personalities in Krishna’s service. This may take some critical self-analysis, as well as some proper guidance by an expert spiritual master.
Nevertheless, some things about us are just bred in the bone and do not change very easily. We have to learn to how to engage those aspects of our personalities in Krishna’s service. This may take some critical self-analysis, as well as some proper guidance by an expert spiritual master.
Christians have a fairly liberal attitude regarding conversion. You have to do little more than profess a belief and you’re in the club. Jews make it harder for outsiders to convert, but if your mother is Jewish you are a member regardless of how you think and act (but you have a serious responsibility to think and act like a true member).
Christians have a fairly liberal attitude regarding conversion. You have to do little more than profess a belief and you’re in the club. Jews make it harder for outsiders to convert, but if your mother is Jewish you are a member regardless of how you think and act (but you have a serious responsibility to think and act like a true member).
I do not know much about Muslims. They seem to accept converts easily, but they expect more than lip service: there are a lot of rules to follow. We seem to be more like that.
I do not know much about Muslims. They seem to accept converts easily, but they expect more than lip service: there are a lot of rules to follow. We seem to be more like that.
The real idea of spiritual initiation is supposed to be that it actually transforms one into a new kind of being (like changing bell metal to gold by an alchemical process). But in the mean time if anyone is willing to enter our sanga and chant the holy names, we accept them as devotees.
The real idea of spiritual initiation is supposed to be that it actually transforms one into a new kind of being (like changing bell metal to gold by an alchemical process). But in the mean time if anyone is willing to enter our sanga and chant the holy names, we accept them as devotees.
One of the scary things about friendship and love is that it threatens to change who we are. We know the all-importance of association. Not only do birds of a feather flock together, but we start to take on the feathers of whatever flock we fly with.
One of the scary things about friendship and love is that it threatens to change who we are. We know the all-importance of association. Not only do birds of a feather flock together, but we start to take on the feathers of whatever flock we fly with.
[Or it may be an exhilerating thought that by forming a new friendship we are changing or at least discovering a new chapter of our destiny.]
[Or it may be an exhilerating thought that by forming a new friendship we are changing or at least discovering a new chapter of our destiny.]
Finding the rare true friends we share the ups and downs of life with is like finding the missing limbs of our own bodies. Impersonalists despise their bodies, but devotees properly engage them in Krishna’s service.
Finding the rare true friends we share the ups and downs of life with is like finding the missing limbs of our own bodies. Impersonalists despise their bodies, but devotees properly engage them in Krishna’s service.
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
Thanks Karnamrta for the scriptural references regarding immature renunciation. This is a subject I need to consider and study.
Thanks Karnamrta for the scriptural references regarding immature renunciation. This is a subject I need to consider and study.
“Interestingly, our immaturity and actually naivete served us in some ways. If I had to accept initiation today and vow to follow the four principles, I don’t know if I could. Prabhupada and all the great teachers simplify the deep, esoteric philosophy of KC, and make it seem self evident and easy, so we can take it up with enthusiasm. ”
“Interestingly, our immaturity and actually naivete served us in some ways. If I had to accept initiation today and vow to follow the four principles, I don’t know if I could. Prabhupada and all the great teachers simplify the deep, esoteric philosophy of KC, and make it seem self evident and easy, so we can take it up with enthusiasm. ”
Yes. Prabhupada made it seem simple. Srutakirti chose a nice title for his book of Prabhupada vignettes: “What is the difficulty?”
Yes. Prabhupada made it seem simple. Srutakirti chose a nice title for his book of Prabhupada vignettes: “What is the difficulty?”
I am also afraid that I could not “surrender” today the way I did as a teenager. I feel as if I should, I have to, but I know I am not really that advanced.
I am also afraid that I could not “surrender” today the way I did as a teenager. I feel as if I should, I have to, but I know I am not really that advanced.
Nowadays some of my peers and I seem to be asking ourselves, “Do I have enough money to become a retired vanaprastha?” Somehow that practical consideration does not seem to be in keeping with the spirit of penance and renunciation that retired life is supposed to entail.
Nowadays some of my peers and I seem to be asking ourselves, “Do I have enough money to become a retired vanaprastha?” Somehow that practical consideration does not seem to be in keeping with the spirit of penance and renunciation that retired life is supposed to entail.
Maybe I am wrong. I am not saying we have to be materially irresponsible. But I just can’t help thinking that I do not really “need” as much as I think I do.
Maybe I am wrong. I am not saying we have to be materially irresponsible. But I just can’t help thinking that I do not really “need” as much as I think I do.
As kids, when we joined, our parents were saying, “You have to be practical. Stay in school. Get a good job. If you want to be a Hare Krishna in your spare time, you can make that your hobby.” But we weren’t having any. We wanted to be cent percent devotees and didn;t have anything left over for so-called responsible considerations. And we had Prabhupada right there encouraging us, “What is the difficulty?”
As kids, when we joined, our parents were saying, “You have to be practical. Stay in school. Get a good job. If you want to be a Hare Krishna in your spare time, you can make that your hobby.” But we weren’t having any. We wanted to be cent percent devotees and didn;t have anything left over for so-called responsible considerations. And we had Prabhupada right there encouraging us, “What is the difficulty?”
One of my favorite verses is “tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer. . . ” (S.B. 1.5.17) It is not that Narada Muni is encouraging people to abandon material obligations exactly, but he is pointing out the glory of devotional service. Even one who recklessly drops everything to become a devotee, and falls down while still immature, has not lost anything. He will take it up again until he is mature. But one who perfectly executes material duties without bhakti, gains nothing. Thus Sri Narada encouraged his disciple Vyasa to compose the spotless Purana.
One of my favorite verses is “tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer. . . ” (S.B. 1.5.17) It is not that Narada Muni is encouraging people to abandon material obligations exactly, but he is pointing out the glory of devotional service. Even one who recklessly drops everything to become a devotee, and falls down while still immature, has not lost anything. He will take it up again until he is mature. But one who perfectly executes material duties without bhakti, gains nothing. Thus Sri Narada encouraged his disciple Vyasa to compose the spotless Purana.
I feel I am wasting time, struggling for artificial comforts, and I wish I had the fearless, youthful, authentic exuberance to just risk everything for pure bhakti, even though it is way beyond my grasp. I should not wait until another life to finish up, and Prabhupada does not want me to.
I feel I am wasting time, struggling for artificial comforts, and I wish I had the fearless, youthful, authentic exuberance to just risk everything for pure bhakti, even though it is way beyond my grasp. I should not wait until another life to finish up, and Prabhupada does not want me to.
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
I guess I veered away from the topic of friendship. Sorry for that. I tend to “shoot from the hip” and often shoot wide of the mark.
I guess I veered away from the topic of friendship. Sorry for that. I tend to “shoot from the hip” and often shoot wide of the mark.
I have been thinking about “wages for sages” and “giving up material duties” and “makings mums and dads cry,” and all the threads just start weaving together for me. I have more questions than answers and am not really able to write clearly, consisely and to the point.
I have been thinking about “wages for sages” and “giving up material duties” and “makings mums and dads cry,” and all the threads just start weaving together for me. I have more questions than answers and am not really able to write clearly, consisely and to the point.
The Srimad Bhagavatam is full of stories concerning balancing and tension between material and spiritual duties, such as Lord Brahma’s anger at the Four Kumara’s renunciation, or Priyavrata’s being persuaded to accept the kingdon, or Daksa’s cursing of Narada Muni.
The Srimad Bhagavatam is full of stories concerning balancing and tension between material and spiritual duties, such as Lord Brahma’s anger at the Four Kumara’s renunciation, or Priyavrata’s being persuaded to accept the kingdon, or Daksa’s cursing of Narada Muni.
How do all these topics relate to the topic of friendships? I am not sure but I sense they do.
How do all these topics relate to the topic of friendships? I am not sure but I sense they do.
Sometimes devotees fall down after a long time and say they felt they had no genuine personal relationships with other devotees, or their “emotional needs” were not being met.[One sannyasi wrote something like that after he infamously ran off with a young married female disciple, and although his behaviour was atrocious, his explanation is probably worth discussing.]
Sometimes devotees fall down after a long time and say they felt they had no genuine personal relationships with other devotees, or their “emotional needs” were not being met.[One sannyasi wrote something like that after he infamously ran off with a young married female disciple, and although his behaviour was atrocious, his explanation is probably worth discussing.]
It strikes me as curious, at least, because we know that Krishna consciousness is the only thing that really satisfies a deep spiritual need which is also a most basic emotional need. I mean, a devotee’s relationships with Krishna, His holy names, His vigrahas, His lilas, really are deep emotional relationships that satisfy our elemental need for intimate friendship. There is no denying that.
It strikes me as curious, at least, because we know that Krishna consciousness is the only thing that really satisfies a deep spiritual need which is also a most basic emotional need. I mean, a devotee’s relationships with Krishna, His holy names, His vigrahas, His lilas, really are deep emotional relationships that satisfy our elemental need for intimate friendship. There is no denying that.
But in our relationship with other devotees, “in the body” so to speak, we also should have satisfying emotional, spiritual relationships. We cannot deny that. We are not supposed to imitate bhajananandis who go off to chant alone. And if our friends are devotees, being true friends can be completely spiritual, devotional service, can’t it? We are enjoined to make friends with the Lord’s devotees (“tad adhinesu . . . maitra”).
But in our relationship with other devotees, “in the body” so to speak, we also should have satisfying emotional, spiritual relationships. We cannot deny that. We are not supposed to imitate bhajananandis who go off to chant alone. And if our friends are devotees, being true friends can be completely spiritual, devotional service, can’t it? We are enjoined to make friends with the Lord’s devotees (“tad adhinesu . . . maitra”).
So why do some devotees feel a lack of intimacy and friendship in their spiritual life, or in their ISKCON dealings? What are they doing wrong, if anything, and how are we failing them?
So why do some devotees feel a lack of intimacy and friendship in their spiritual life, or in their ISKCON dealings? What are they doing wrong, if anything, and how are we failing them?
We do need to have people we can trust will act as constant well-wishers, in whom we can confide and mutually support. What is it, if anything, about ISKCON social arrangements that prevent people from finding such friends? What is it about ourselves that might prevent us from forming such relationships?
We do need to have people we can trust will act as constant well-wishers, in whom we can confide and mutually support. What is it, if anything, about ISKCON social arrangements that prevent people from finding such friends? What is it about ourselves that might prevent us from forming such relationships?
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
Most friendships seem to form based on common interests, things people do together, and genuinely admire about each other’s skills or accomplishments in those fields.
Most friendships seem to form based on common interests, things people do together, and genuinely admire about each other’s skills or accomplishments in those fields.
(Let’s leave aside the question of alliances based on mating behavior, which preoccupies a lot of nondevotee social interaction in societies where men and women mix freely with fewer moral restrictions, other than to say that good devotee marriages should also be based on firm, friendly commitment and trust.)
(Let’s leave aside the question of alliances based on mating behavior, which preoccupies a lot of nondevotee social interaction in societies where men and women mix freely with fewer moral restrictions, other than to say that good devotee marriages should also be based on firm, friendly commitment and trust.)
Among nondevotees, the common interests are nondevotional, generally based on sense enjoyment or material duties. Kids play sports and games with one another, or work on school projects together. Adults work together at work and my share career goals, and in leisure they vacation together, play or watch sports, discuss art or music or philosophy or politics, maybe in dining or other pursuits (cigars, wine, model trains, contract bridge) that sort of thing.
Among nondevotees, the common interests are nondevotional, generally based on sense enjoyment or material duties. Kids play sports and games with one another, or work on school projects together. Adults work together at work and my share career goals, and in leisure they vacation together, play or watch sports, discuss art or music or philosophy or politics, maybe in dining or other pursuits (cigars, wine, model trains, contract bridge) that sort of thing.
Devotees can have common devotional interests, like book distribution, cooking, deity worship, devotional music, and other devotional service. They can develop a real interest in reading and discussing Prabhupada’s books together and chanting together, and they can also do leisurely physical exercise together for keeping the body healthy.
Devotees can have common devotional interests, like book distribution, cooking, deity worship, devotional music, and other devotional service. They can develop a real interest in reading and discussing Prabhupada’s books together and chanting together, and they can also do leisurely physical exercise together for keeping the body healthy.
The Spanish word “compadre” implies rearing children in partnership, in the sense that our kids play together at each other’s houses and we need to have people we can trust and rely on to help each other watch the kids and be there in emergencies and trade notes and concerns about child rearing with. Such mutual trust is a kind of friendship that both nondevotees and devotees enjoy.
The Spanish word “compadre” implies rearing children in partnership, in the sense that our kids play together at each other’s houses and we need to have people we can trust and rely on to help each other watch the kids and be there in emergencies and trade notes and concerns about child rearing with. Such mutual trust is a kind of friendship that both nondevotees and devotees enjoy.
My experience in brahmacari asram in old-school ISKCON did involve, naturally, some regimentation. We had no kids (most of us were kids ourselves), and we purposely did not have leisure activities. Still, there was a kind of camaraderie that we were all in the same thing together. Our isolation from the nondevotee world made us feel like we were in an oasis of others who intensely shared our interests. At least in Vancouver when Bahudak was TP there was sort of a family-like espirit de corps, and naturally we felt closer to some individuals than others (yet there were so many friendly, nice devotees, almost all of whom still are active devotees).
My experience in brahmacari asram in old-school ISKCON did involve, naturally, some regimentation. We had no kids (most of us were kids ourselves), and we purposely did not have leisure activities. Still, there was a kind of camaraderie that we were all in the same thing together. Our isolation from the nondevotee world made us feel like we were in an oasis of others who intensely shared our interests. At least in Vancouver when Bahudak was TP there was sort of a family-like espirit de corps, and naturally we felt closer to some individuals than others (yet there were so many friendly, nice devotees, almost all of whom still are active devotees).
Still in some ways the asrama environment and restriction from “elective” leisure activities could stifle some common avenues of friendship. . .
Still in some ways the asrama environment and restriction from “elective” leisure activities could stifle some common avenues of friendship. . .
Akruranatha says :
Akruranatha says :
There are plenty of opportunities for devotees in asram life to show friendship and kindness to one another.
There are plenty of opportunities for devotees in asram life to show friendship and kindness to one another.
I guess mainly we become friends with people who are kind to us, who understand what we are going through and find ways to help us and show us they do understand. And this naturally inspires a mutuality of kindness and understanding.
I guess mainly we become friends with people who are kind to us, who understand what we are going through and find ways to help us and show us they do understand. And this naturally inspires a mutuality of kindness and understanding.
I guess these are just obvious platitudes, but I do wonder about what it is that makes us sometimes feel that there is unkindness or impersonalism in asram life. Sometimes we may be struggling with over-austerity and become a little selfish or callous to the suffering of our mates. Or maybe we become a little competitive?
I guess these are just obvious platitudes, but I do wonder about what it is that makes us sometimes feel that there is unkindness or impersonalism in asram life. Sometimes we may be struggling with over-austerity and become a little selfish or callous to the suffering of our mates. Or maybe we become a little competitive?
It can happen in temples, large and small, that enmities form and devotees try to push each other down. In the kind of restricted “fishbowl” of an asrama environment, that could be very difficult.
It can happen in temples, large and small, that enmities form and devotees try to push each other down. In the kind of restricted “fishbowl” of an asrama environment, that could be very difficult.
Or there might be situations in which new devotees (or even senior devotees) have no one to confide in about some difficulty or doubt.
Or there might be situations in which new devotees (or even senior devotees) have no one to confide in about some difficulty or doubt.
We have to be kind and friendly to one another and form close friendships or life in an asrama could become unbearable.
We have to be kind and friendly to one another and form close friendships or life in an asrama could become unbearable.
(It reminds me of a genre of novels and movies where a small group of people are required to live and work together, either in a military platoon or navy ship, a sports team, prison, mental hospital, or even a cozy academic environment or small town, and people have to find friends in order to thrive and survive.)
(It reminds me of a genre of novels and movies where a small group of people are required to live and work together, either in a military platoon or navy ship, a sports team, prison, mental hospital, or even a cozy academic environment or small town, and people have to find friends in order to thrive and survive.)
Practicing Tolerance. Vaisesika Dasa
Practicing Tolerance. Vaisesika Dasa
http://www.fanthespark.com/vaisesika-dasa-adhikari/
As with practitioners of other skills, those who consciously take up the practice of tolerance develop a greater capacity for it.
As with practitioners of other skills, those who consciously take up the practice of tolerance develop a greater capacity for it.
Unlike the practice of many other talents however, to practice tolerance one needn’t go anywhere or buy anything, as ample opportunities to exercise one’s toleration muscle come unsought.
Unlike the practice of many other talents however, to practice tolerance one needn’t go anywhere or buy anything, as ample opportunities to exercise one’s toleration muscle come unsought.
A first step in the practice of tolerance is to prepare oneself to welcome disturbances when they arise.
A first step in the practice of tolerance is to prepare oneself to welcome disturbances when they arise.
As the Dalai Lama puts it, “In the practice of tolerance, one’s enemy is the best teacher.”
As the Dalai Lama puts it, “In the practice of tolerance, one’s enemy is the best teacher.”
Acting on such sage advice, once while my friend and Godbrother, Satyadeva Prabhu and I were touring through Japan, we were obligated by circumstance to travel for many hours in a car alongside an unruly child. At first, we both felt frustrated and disturbed. However, when we decided to take our encounter as a chance to practice tolerance, we felt relief and soon, we were both smiling after nicknaming our restless prepubescent travel mate, “guruji.” At the end of the trip, we both thanked guruji for teaching us tolerance.
Acting on such sage advice, once while my friend and Godbrother, Satyadeva Prabhu and I were touring through Japan, we were obligated by circumstance to travel for many hours in a car alongside an unruly child. At first, we both felt frustrated and disturbed. However, when we decided to take our encounter as a chance to practice tolerance, we felt relief and soon, we were both smiling after nicknaming our restless prepubescent travel mate, “guruji.” At the end of the trip, we both thanked guruji for teaching us tolerance.
In the Gita, Lord Sri Krishna lists tolerance among nineteen other vital elements on the path to spiritual knowledge. (Bg. 13. 8-12)
In the Gita, Lord Sri Krishna lists tolerance among nineteen other vital elements on the path to spiritual knowledge. (Bg. 13. 8-12)
One who practices tolerance gains a unique perspective to see how circumstances come and go and also sees that he or she is not the master of them. Admitting that I am not the supreme controller is not only foundational to advancing in spiritual life; it is also a great relief.
One who practices tolerance gains a unique perspective to see how circumstances come and go and also sees that he or she is not the master of them. Admitting that I am not the supreme controller is not only foundational to advancing in spiritual life; it is also a great relief.
Some synonyms for the word tolerance are: open-mindedness, broad-mindedness, forbearance, liberality, patience, charity, and understanding. (Sounds nice, right?)
Some synonyms for the word tolerance are: open-mindedness, broad-mindedness, forbearance, liberality, patience, charity, and understanding. (Sounds nice, right?)
Try greeting the day with a determined aim to tolerate some unfavorable news, a difficult person, or some awkward circumstance. Not only will you be surprised at how many opportunities you’ll get, you may also be stunned by the spiritual insight you gain just from this one simple practice.
Try greeting the day with a determined aim to tolerate some unfavorable news, a difficult person, or some awkward circumstance. Not only will you be surprised at how many opportunities you’ll get, you may also be stunned by the spiritual insight you gain just from this one simple practice.
Those who practice tolerance not only become spiritually wise, they also please Krishna.
Those who practice tolerance not only become spiritually wise, they also please Krishna.
“The Lord is very satisfied with His devotee when the devotee greets other people with tolerance, mercy, friendship and equality.” (SB 4.11.13)
“The Lord is very satisfied with His devotee when the devotee greets other people with tolerance, mercy, friendship and equality.” (SB 4.11.13)
“One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me-such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.” (BG 12.13-14)
“One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me-such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.” (BG 12.13-14)
BIOGRAPHY
BIOGRAPHY
William Suczek, the youngest of two brothers and one sister, was born in Walnut Creek, California in the autumn of 1956. His parents, both professors at San Francisco State University, raised William to be open to new ideas and tolerant of diverse lifestyles and values. In his youth William spent years searching for God and for the meaning of life. His prayers and intense austerities—which included vows of poverty, fasting, and silence—were answered when a friend gave him a copy of Back to Godhead magazine during the summer of 1973. As soon as he saw the photo of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada, the founder of the Hare Krishna movement, he knew that his search was over.
The knowledge in that magazine so inspired William that he at once—with the help of his mother—began visiting the ISKCON temple in San Francisco. Within a few weeks, at the age of sixteen, he had moved into the temple to become a full time monk. He soon met his spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, who instructed him to distribute his books and to read them with great care and attention. Not long after this meeting, in early 1974, Srila Prabhupada gave William spiritual initiation and the name Vaisesika Dasa.
Since then Vaisesika Dasa has devoted his life to his spiritual master’s mission. He has continuously read, studied, and distributed to the masses the Vedic knowledge contained in the translations and commentaries of Srila Prabhupada’s books. Currently, Vaisesika Dasa travels extensively, lecturing, counseling, and inspiring devotees and spiritual aspirants alike throughout the world.
In 2009, to help fulfill Srila Prabhupada’s order that his movement continue to expand, Vaisesika Dasa began initiating disciples into the disciplic succession.
Married in 1985, he now lives in California with his wife Nirakula Dasi, who is also a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, a dedicated teacher of Krsna consciousness, a cook and co-author of the best sellling cookbook, The Higher Taste. Vaisesika Dasa is the president of ISKCON Silicon Valley (ISV) where he has inaugurated many projects. He is also the North American sankirtana strategist and ISKCON’s regional GBC secretary for Northern California. Please refer to the projects page for more information about his work at present.
The Vanaprastha-asrama and its practical application
The Vanaprastha-asrama and its practical application
A. Introduction
A. Introduction
1. What is vanaprastha?
1. What is vanaprastha?
The word vanaprastha is composed of the words vana, meaning “forest” and prastha, meaning “to go,” so a vanaprastha is “One has gone to the forest.” Vanaprastha is an asrama in the Vedic varnasrama system. An asrama can be both a physical and mental place and refers to “a place where one cultivates spiritual life, where culture of the spiritual is foremost.”
The word vanaprastha is composed of the words vana, meaning “forest” and prastha, meaning “to go,” so a vanaprastha is “One has gone to the forest.” Vanaprastha is an asrama in the Vedic varnasrama system. An asrama can be both a physical and mental place and refers to “a place where one cultivates spiritual life, where culture of the spiritual is foremost.”
The vanaprastha order is complete retirement from householder life, a time when one prepares oneself for going back to Godhead. It requires shedding one’s material attachments to become free of the repetition of birth and death (samsara). Every man and woman should be trained for this purpose.
The vanaprastha order is complete retirement from householder life, a time when one prepares oneself for going back to Godhead. It requires shedding one’s material attachments to become free of the repetition of birth and death (samsara). Every man and woman should be trained for this purpose.
2. Srila Prabhupada wanted to establish varnasrama-dharma, and specifically, daiva varnasrama-dharma, in ISKCON to save human society from gliding down to hellish life.
2. Srila Prabhupada wanted to establish varnasrama-dharma, and specifically, daiva varnasrama-dharma, in ISKCON to save human society from gliding down to hellish life.
Vanaprastha is one of four asramas in the varnasrama system. Srila Prabhupada wanted to establish varnasrama-dharma, also known as the Vedic civilization. If established systematically, it will change humankind. He was confident that the varnasrama system would cleanse the hearts of everyone, allowing all to receive and understand spiritual knowledge.
Vanaprastha is one of four asramas in the varnasrama system. Srila Prabhupada wanted to establish varnasrama-dharma, also known as the Vedic civilization. If established systematically, it will change humankind. He was confident that the varnasrama system would cleanse the hearts of everyone, allowing all to receive and understand spiritual knowledge.
(The grhasthas, vanaprasthas, brahmacaris and sannyasis should endeavor together with their total energy to become Krsna conscious. This type of civilization is called daiva-varnasrama. One of the objectives of the Krsna consciousness movement is to establish this daiva-varnasrama-dharma society. This was the second half of my mission.)
(The grhasthas, vanaprasthas, brahmacaris and sannyasis should endeavor together with their total energy to become Krsna conscious. This type of civilization is called daiva-varnasrama. One of the objectives of the Krsna consciousness movement is to establish this daiva-varnasrama-dharma society. This was the second half of my mission.)
“The Krsna consciousness movement, however, is being propagated all over the world to reestablish the varnasrama-dharma system and thus save human society from gliding down to hellish life.” (SB. 5.19.19, purport)
“The Krsna consciousness movement, however, is being propagated all over the world to reestablish the varnasrama-dharma system and thus save human society from gliding down to hellish life.” (SB. 5.19.19, purport)
“Without cleansing the heart, it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures—brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha—they are simply the cleansing method. And bhakti is also a cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti.” (Lecture on SB. 6.1.34–39, Surat, December 19, 1970)
“Without cleansing the heart, it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures—brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha—they are simply the cleansing method. And bhakti is also a cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti.” (Lecture on SB. 6.1.34–39, Surat, December 19, 1970)
Daiva-varnasrama is defined as strictly following the principles of the Vedas and, particularly, becoming Krishna conscious:
Daiva-varnasrama is defined as strictly following the principles of the Vedas and, particularly, becoming Krishna conscious:
“The grhasthas, brahmacaris, and sannyasis should endeavor together with their total energy to become Krsna conscious. This type of civilization is called daiva-varnasrama.” (SB. 7.14.10, purport)
“The grhasthas, brahmacaris, and sannyasis should endeavor together with their total energy to become Krsna conscious. This type of civilization is called daiva-varnasrama.” (SB. 7.14.10, purport)
“If we want to establish Vedic civilization, then we must follow strictly the principles of Vedas as it is described in the Bhagavad-gita. And if it is practiced, then it is daiva-varnasrama-dharma.” Lecture on BG. 2.2–6, Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972)
“If we want to establish Vedic civilization, then we must follow strictly the principles of Vedas as it is described in the Bhagavad-gita. And if it is practiced, then it is daiva-varnasrama-dharma.” Lecture on BG. 2.2–6, Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972)
Asrama-dharma is a gradual process on the path of self-realization. The main purpose of asrama-dharma is to awaken knowledge and detachment. Varnasrama-dharma trains one to completely retire from worldly life in his or her remaining days of life and prepares one for going back to Godhead.
Asrama-dharma is a gradual process on the path of self-realization. The main purpose of asrama-dharma is to awaken knowledge and detachment. Varnasrama-dharma trains one to completely retire from worldly life in his or her remaining days of life and prepares one for going back to Godhead.
“The system of varnasrama-dharma prepares a man for going back to Godhead, and thus a householder is ordered to go to the forest as vanaprastha to acquire complete knowledge and then to take sannyasa prior to his inevitable death.” (SB 1.19.4, purport)
“The system of varnasrama-dharma prepares a man for going back to Godhead, and thus a householder is ordered to go to the forest as vanaprastha to acquire complete knowledge and then to take sannyasa prior to his inevitable death.” (SB 1.19.4, purport)
“(One should) prepare for the remaining days of one’s life for spiritual culture. That is called vanaprastha. So vanaprastha means retired life and training for completely renouncing this worldly life.” (Lecture on SB. 7.6.6–9, Montreal, June 23, 1968)
“(One should) prepare for the remaining days of one’s life for spiritual culture. That is called vanaprastha. So vanaprastha means retired life and training for completely renouncing this worldly life.” (Lecture on SB. 7.6.6–9, Montreal, June 23, 1968)
“The system of the sanatana-dharma institution is so made that the follower is trained for the better next life without any chance that the human life will be spoiled. The holy places all over the world are meant for the residential purposes of retired persons getting ready for a better next life”. (SB. 2.1.16, purport)
“The system of the sanatana-dharma institution is so made that the follower is trained for the better next life without any chance that the human life will be spoiled. The holy places all over the world are meant for the residential purposes of retired persons getting ready for a better next life”. (SB. 2.1.16, purport)
3. According to Vedic civilization one should get out of materialistic life by the age of 51. Doing so is compulsory; as well as the householders’ duty to take vanaprastha.
3. According to Vedic civilization one should get out of materialistic life by the age of 51. Doing so is compulsory; as well as the householders’ duty to take vanaprastha.
Pancasordhvam vanam vrajet means one must climb out of the grham andha-kupam (the “blind well of householder life”) and vanam vrajet (go to the forest). Vrajet means “compulsory.”
Pancasordhvam vanam vrajet means one must climb out of the grham andha-kupam (the “blind well of householder life”) and vanam vrajet (go to the forest). Vrajet means “compulsory.”
“The Vedic principle is that you remain in family life for some time, not for all the days. Pancasordhvam vanam vrajet. As soon as you’re fifty years old, you must give up family life. It is compulsory. (Lecture on SB. 3.25.22, Bombay, November 22, 1974)
“The Vedic principle is that you remain in family life for some time, not for all the days. Pancasordhvam vanam vrajet. As soon as you’re fifty years old, you must give up family life. It is compulsory. (Lecture on SB. 3.25.22, Bombay, November 22, 1974)
This is an authoritative statement of the Vedas. (SB. 3.24.35, purport)
This is an authoritative statement of the Vedas. (SB. 3.24.35, purport)
“Going to the forest is compulsory for everyone. It is not a mental excursion upon which one person goes and another does not. Everyone should go to the forest at least as a vanaprastha. Forest-going means to take one-hundred-percent shelter of the Supreme Lord, as explained by Prahlada Maharaja in his talks with his father.” (SB. 3.24.41, purport)
“Going to the forest is compulsory for everyone. It is not a mental excursion upon which one person goes and another does not. Everyone should go to the forest at least as a vanaprastha. Forest-going means to take one-hundred-percent shelter of the Supreme Lord, as explained by Prahlada Maharaja in his talks with his father.” (SB. 3.24.41, purport)
Therefore, it becomes all grhasthas’ duty to take Vanaprastha asrama because generally, we are not able to stay fixed in transcendence and tend to fall into maya. The duties in varnasrama, even though temporary, are God-given and serve to assist the conditioned soul to become unconditioned, or centered on the soul, if properly followed. The Vedas are the word of God. All devotees following the rules of varna and asrama should respect God’s words as they are given in the Vedas. In both the srutis and the smrtis, the Lord gives many prescribed duties, in varnasrama system especially for householders.
Therefore, it becomes all grhasthas’ duty to take Vanaprastha asrama because generally, we are not able to stay fixed in transcendence and tend to fall into maya. The duties in varnasrama, even though temporary, are God-given and serve to assist the conditioned soul to become unconditioned, or centered on the soul, if properly followed. The Vedas are the word of God. All devotees following the rules of varna and asrama should respect God’s words as they are given in the Vedas. In both the srutis and the smrtis, the Lord gives many prescribed duties, in varnasrama system especially for householders.
Srila Prabhupada gave all his disciples brahmana diksa. He wanted all brahmana men and women to accept vanaprastha, and then for the men to take sannyasa.
Srila Prabhupada gave all his disciples brahmana diksa. He wanted all brahmana men and women to accept vanaprastha, and then for the men to take sannyasa.
“I will suggest now in your old age (when your sons are grown up and well situated), why not join this movement and retire from family life? According to our Vedic principle, a person, especially a brahmana, should leave home after the 50th year and accept the order of vanaprastha” (Letter to Dinanatha, Honolulu, June 14, 1975)
“I will suggest now in your old age (when your sons are grown up and well situated), why not join this movement and retire from family life? According to our Vedic principle, a person, especially a brahmana, should leave home after the 50th year and accept the order of vanaprastha” (Letter to Dinanatha, Honolulu, June 14, 1975)
“The brahmana, one who is qualified as a brahmana, he has to observe the four asramas, a brahmana: the brahmacari-asrama, the grhastha-asrama, the vanaprastha-asrama, and sannyasa-asrama.” (Lecture on SB. 1.8.41, Mayapur, October 21, 1974)
“The brahmana, one who is qualified as a brahmana, he has to observe the four asramas, a brahmana: the brahmacari-asrama, the grhastha-asrama, the vanaprastha-asrama, and sannyasa-asrama.” (Lecture on SB. 1.8.41, Mayapur, October 21, 1974)
“For a brahmana, the four asramas are compulsory. He must become a brahmacari. Then from brahmacari he becomes grhastha. Then from grhastha he must become vanaprastha. Then he must become a sannyasi. (Lecture on SB 3.25.22, Bombay, November 22, 1974)
“For a brahmana, the four asramas are compulsory. He must become a brahmacari. Then from brahmacari he becomes grhastha. Then from grhastha he must become vanaprastha. Then he must become a sannyasi. (Lecture on SB 3.25.22, Bombay, November 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada compares taking vanaprastha to “civil suicide.”
Srila Prabhupada compares taking vanaprastha to “civil suicide.”
My guru maharaja used to say, ‘Commit civil suicide.’… If you commit suicide it is criminal. It is also suicide – no more connection with family. This is also suicide, but it is civil. There is no criminal action against … But it is also voluntarily committing suicide – no more connection with anyone.” (Lecture on SB. 1.8.41, Mayapur, October 21, 1974)
My guru maharaja used to say, ‘Commit civil suicide.’… If you commit suicide it is criminal. It is also suicide – no more connection with family. This is also suicide, but it is civil. There is no criminal action against … But it is also voluntarily committing suicide – no more connection with anyone.” (Lecture on SB. 1.8.41, Mayapur, October 21, 1974)
4. According to Srila Prabhupada, the main goal of vanaprastha is to develop detachment from the material world.
4. According to Srila Prabhupada, the main goal of vanaprastha is to develop detachment from the material world.
Actually, the practice of detachment should begin even while one is still situated in family life. Controlling the senses is a preparation for sannyasa.
Actually, the practice of detachment should begin even while one is still situated in family life. Controlling the senses is a preparation for sannyasa.
“The development of detachment should begin whilst living at home, without sex, and slowly moving to a more detached situation by association, study, traveling, preaching, etc.” (SB. 4.29.54, purport)
“The development of detachment should begin whilst living at home, without sex, and slowly moving to a more detached situation by association, study, traveling, preaching, etc.” (SB. 4.29.54, purport)
“Household life is for one who is attached, and the vanaprastha and sannyasa orders of life are for those who are detached from material life. The brahmacari-asrama is especially meant for training both the attached and detached.” (SB. 1.9.26, purport)
“Household life is for one who is attached, and the vanaprastha and sannyasa orders of life are for those who are detached from material life. The brahmacari-asrama is especially meant for training both the attached and detached.” (SB. 1.9.26, purport)
(It is a very good suggestion to open the vanaprastha institute. The elderly people can live there according to the Vaisnava principles and worship the Deity and take prasada.)
(It is a very good suggestion to open the vanaprastha institute. The elderly people can live there according to the Vaisnava principles and worship the Deity and take prasada.)
5. Attachment in householder life, and the position of an attached householder.
5. Attachment in householder life, and the position of an attached householder.
Srila Prabhupada condemned attachment in householder life and strongly recommended to get out of household life.
Srila Prabhupada condemned attachment in householder life and strongly recommended to get out of household life.
“One should not simply remain at home until the time of death, but should separate from family life at a timely moment and prepare himself to go back to Godhead.” (SB. 4.23.1–3, purport)
“One should not simply remain at home until the time of death, but should separate from family life at a timely moment and prepare himself to go back to Godhead.” (SB. 4.23.1–3, purport)
“Prahlada Maharaja has advised that one give up this blind well of home life as soon as possible and go to the forest to take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But people are so attached to their homes that even up to the point of death they do not like to retire from home life.” (SB. 4.13.46, purport)
“Prahlada Maharaja has advised that one give up this blind well of home life as soon as possible and go to the forest to take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But people are so attached to their homes that even up to the point of death they do not like to retire from home life.” (SB. 4.13.46, purport)
Lord Kapila (SB. 3.30.9–18) gives graphic descriptions of an attached householder, and Srila Prabhupada comments on those verses:
Lord Kapila (SB. 3.30.9–18) gives graphic descriptions of an attached householder, and Srila Prabhupada comments on those verses:
“An attached family man maintains his family members very diligently, but when he becomes old and is unable to earn, he is treated like a dog by the same family members. Before meeting death one is sure to become a diseased invalid and he is put into so many miserable conditions. The Vedic literatures therefore enjoin that before the arrival of such miserable conditions one should leave home and die without the knowledge of his family members. If a man leaves home and dies without his family’s knowing, that is considered to be a glorious death.”
“An attached family man maintains his family members very diligently, but when he becomes old and is unable to earn, he is treated like a dog by the same family members. Before meeting death one is sure to become a diseased invalid and he is put into so many miserable conditions. The Vedic literatures therefore enjoin that before the arrival of such miserable conditions one should leave home and die without the knowledge of his family members. If a man leaves home and dies without his family’s knowing, that is considered to be a glorious death.”
6. Srila Prabhupada’s recommendations and encouragement to devotees in ISKCON as well as non-devotees. Everyone can benefit from this Vedic system of vanaprastha.
6. Srila Prabhupada’s recommendations and encouragement to devotees in ISKCON as well as non-devotees. Everyone can benefit from this Vedic system of vanaprastha.
“In our Krishna consciousness movement, we therefore invite all the elderly persons of the world to come to Vrndavana and stay there in retired life, making advancement in spiritual consciousness, Krsna consciousness.” (SB. 7.5.5, purport)
“In our Krishna consciousness movement, we therefore invite all the elderly persons of the world to come to Vrndavana and stay there in retired life, making advancement in spiritual consciousness, Krsna consciousness.” (SB. 7.5.5, purport)
“We do not have a center in Hardwar, but Vrndavana and Sridhama Mayapur are better for devotees than any other places. The Caitanya Candrodaya temple offers one a good opportunity to associate with devotees. Let us all take advantage of this opportunity.” (SB. 6.2.39, purport)
“We do not have a center in Hardwar, but Vrndavana and Sridhama Mayapur are better for devotees than any other places. The Caitanya Candrodaya temple offers one a good opportunity to associate with devotees. Let us all take advantage of this opportunity.” (SB. 6.2.39, purport)
In the following letters to Dr. Y. G. Naik and Sri Srinivasan, Srila Prabhupada suggests that one take vanaprastha and to go to ISKCON centers in either Vrndavana, Mayapur, or Bombay to perform devotional service.
In the following letters to Dr. Y. G. Naik and Sri Srinivasan, Srila Prabhupada suggests that one take vanaprastha and to go to ISKCON centers in either Vrndavana, Mayapur, or Bombay to perform devotional service.
“I would suggest humbly that since you are already retired from service and your sons are well situated, that you may retire from your family life and live in Vrindaban in the vanaprastha order … I hope you will try to understand my point of view and join this movement to make it more appreciable by the people in general all over the world.” (Letter to Dr. Y. G. Naik, Toronto, August 7, 1975)
“I would suggest humbly that since you are already retired from service and your sons are well situated, that you may retire from your family life and live in Vrindaban in the vanaprastha order … I hope you will try to understand my point of view and join this movement to make it more appreciable by the people in general all over the world.” (Letter to Dr. Y. G. Naik, Toronto, August 7, 1975)
“Therefore, according to Varnasrama Dharma you should spend the rest of your life simply engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. The best thing is for you to either go to our Vrndavana center or our Mayapur center or our Bombay center and live there for the rest of your life, chanting Hare Krsna, feeling the bliss of being fully engaged
“Therefore, according to Varnasrama Dharma you should spend the rest of your life simply engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. The best thing is for you to either go to our Vrndavana center or our Mayapur center or our Bombay center and live there for the rest of your life, chanting Hare Krsna, feeling the bliss of being fully engaged
in the service of Sri Krsna … Then when it comes time to leave your body at the end of life you will go to Krsna.” (Letter to Sri Srinivasan, December 23, 1974)
in the service of Sri Krsna … Then when it comes time to leave your body at the end of life you will go to Krsna.” (Letter to Sri Srinivasan, December 23, 1974)
7. Consequences of sense gratification.
7. Consequences of sense gratification.
Srila Prabhupada mentions many times that one should try to reduce sense gratification, which creates envy, destroys our spirit of devotional desire, and causes us to minimize our awareness of the need to preach Krsna consciousness. By indulging in material sense gratification, we become miserable and our remembrance of Krsna is covered over.
Srila Prabhupada mentions many times that one should try to reduce sense gratification, which creates envy, destroys our spirit of devotional desire, and causes us to minimize our awareness of the need to preach Krsna consciousness. By indulging in material sense gratification, we become miserable and our remembrance of Krsna is covered over.
8. Srila Prabhupada was concerned for his young householder disciples.
8. Srila Prabhupada was concerned for his young householder disciples.
Srila Prabhupada always thought of the spiritual welfare of his young married disciples who were sincerely engaged in the Supreme Lord’s service. He specifically instructed them to eventually disconnect from family life and take vanaprastha.
Srila Prabhupada always thought of the spiritual welfare of his young married disciples who were sincerely engaged in the Supreme Lord’s service. He specifically instructed them to eventually disconnect from family life and take vanaprastha.
“It is not that a grhastha should live at home until he dies. Vanaprastha is preliminary to sannyasa. In the Krsna consciousness movement there are many young couples engaged in the Lord’s service. Eventually they are supposed to take vanaprastha, and after the vanaprastha stage the husband may take sannyasa in order to preach. The wife may then remain alone and serve the Deity or engage in other activities within the Krsna consciousness movement.” (Cc. Madhya 24.259, purport)
“It is not that a grhastha should live at home until he dies. Vanaprastha is preliminary to sannyasa. In the Krsna consciousness movement there are many young couples engaged in the Lord’s service. Eventually they are supposed to take vanaprastha, and after the vanaprastha stage the husband may take sannyasa in order to preach. The wife may then remain alone and serve the Deity or engage in other activities within the Krsna consciousness movement.” (Cc. Madhya 24.259, purport)
Srila Prabhupada propagated the idea that systematically planned separation is better than forced separation. He argued that if one will be separated from his or her family in one way or another, why not separate willingly?
Srila Prabhupada propagated the idea that systematically planned separation is better than forced separation. He argued that if one will be separated from his or her family in one way or another, why not separate willingly?
“Being disgusted with family life, one separates from the family by divorce or some other means. If one has to separate, why not separate willingly? Systematic separation is better than forced separation.” (SB 5.13.8, purport)
“Being disgusted with family life, one separates from the family by divorce or some other means. If one has to separate, why not separate willingly? Systematic separation is better than forced separation.” (SB 5.13.8, purport)
9. The traditional vanprastha system and its present-day challenges.
9. The traditional vanprastha system and its present-day challenges.
The traditional vanaprastha system is described in SB. 7.12.17–22, and the traditional behavior of a vanprastha is described in SB. 11.17.33 and 11.18.1–12, 25, and 42, as well as in several other places in Srimad-Bhagavatam.
The traditional vanaprastha system is described in SB. 7.12.17–22, and the traditional behavior of a vanprastha is described in SB. 11.17.33 and 11.18.1–12, 25, and 42, as well as in several other places in Srimad-Bhagavatam.
However, it is not feasible to follow these injunctions exactly as they are laid out today. Rather, we should follow Srila Prabhupada’s advice, which are given according to time, place, and circumstance.
However, it is not feasible to follow these injunctions exactly as they are laid out today. Rather, we should follow Srila Prabhupada’s advice, which are given according to time, place, and circumstance.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura states that those who are not transcendental to the three modes, including those who are in the vanaprastha-asrama, must go through all the asramas.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura states that those who are not transcendental to the three modes, including those who are in the vanaprastha-asrama, must go through all the asramas.
10. The goal of moving through the grhastha-asrama is to develop gradual detachment from householder life and to later adopt the detached asrama of vanaprastha.
10. The goal of moving through the grhastha-asrama is to develop gradual detachment from householder life and to later adopt the detached asrama of vanaprastha.
Srila Prabhupada was very much concerned for the welfare of his Society and often appealed to his followers to gradually become detached from family life. He said there is no misery greater than material attachment and no happiness as fine as detachment.
Srila Prabhupada was very much concerned for the welfare of his Society and often appealed to his followers to gradually become detached from family life. He said there is no misery greater than material attachment and no happiness as fine as detachment.
“One should be very much ashamed of remaining a householder and not promoting oneself to the two higher stages, namely vanaprastha and sannyasa.” (SB. 9.19.2, purport)
“One should be very much ashamed of remaining a householder and not promoting oneself to the two higher stages, namely vanaprastha and sannyasa.” (SB. 9.19.2, purport)
“One should not, however, become self-complacent simply by leaving home or by creating another home at the holy place, either lawfully or unlawfully.” (SB 2.1.6, purport)
“One should not, however, become self-complacent simply by leaving home or by creating another home at the holy place, either lawfully or unlawfully.” (SB 2.1.6, purport)
His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami was interested in making vanaprastha-asrama visible with official ceremony. During the ceremony of Vanapravesh for me and my wife he made the comments:
His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami was interested in making vanaprastha-asrama visible with official ceremony. During the ceremony of Vanapravesh for me and my wife he made the comments:
“In any case, one should wind down material life until nothing is left so that one will have to totally depend on the Supreme Lord’s mercy. Life is the preparation and death is the final examination.” (Talk given during an official ceremony for Vanapravesh, March 7, 2016, old gurukula grounds in Mayapur)
“In any case, one should wind down material life until nothing is left so that one will have to totally depend on the Supreme Lord’s mercy. Life is the preparation and death is the final examination.” (Talk given during an official ceremony for Vanapravesh, March 7, 2016, old gurukula grounds in Mayapur)
11. Srila Prabhupada himself took vanaprastha.
11. Srila Prabhupada himself took vanaprastha.
“I myself passed my life as a householder until 1950, when I retired from family life as a vanaprastha. I was preaching and writing for eight or nine years as vanaprastha. “Letter to Mahatma, Bombay, May 1, 1974)
“I myself passed my life as a householder until 1950, when I retired from family life as a vanaprastha. I was preaching and writing for eight or nine years as vanaprastha. “Letter to Mahatma, Bombay, May 1, 1974)
12. The grhastha’s duty is to maintain the other three classes of people who strive only for advancement in spiritual life and to perform austerity.
12. The grhastha’s duty is to maintain the other three classes of people who strive only for advancement in spiritual life and to perform austerity.
According to Srila Prabhupada, all devotees should strive for spiritual advancement and stop sense gratification. Devotees in asramas other than the grhastha should not make money but should depend on householders. It is the householders’ duty to maintain brahmacaris, vanaprasthas, and sannyasis.
According to Srila Prabhupada, all devotees should strive for spiritual advancement and stop sense gratification. Devotees in asramas other than the grhastha should not make money but should depend on householders. It is the householders’ duty to maintain brahmacaris, vanaprasthas, and sannyasis.
“The brahmacaris, vanaprasthas, and sannyasis – they don’t have to do anything but strive for spiritual advancement in spiritual life. This means that three-fourths of the entire population should stop sense gratification.”
“The brahmacaris, vanaprasthas, and sannyasis – they don’t have to do anything but strive for spiritual advancement in spiritual life. This means that three-fourths of the entire population should stop sense gratification.”
“Only the grhasthas are allowed to earn money. But the brahmacari and the vanaprastha and sannyasis live at the cost of the grhasthas. That means it is the duty of the grhasthas, or the householders, to maintain the other three sections of the people. (Lecture on SB. 7.6.6–9, Montreal, June 23, 1968)
“Only the grhasthas are allowed to earn money. But the brahmacari and the vanaprastha and sannyasis live at the cost of the grhasthas. That means it is the duty of the grhasthas, or the householders, to maintain the other three sections of the people. (Lecture on SB. 7.6.6–9, Montreal, June 23, 1968)
(In spiritual life, whether one is a grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasi or brahmacari, everyone is under the control of the spiritual master.)
(In spiritual life, whether one is a grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasi or brahmacari, everyone is under the control of the spiritual master.)
(The charity will be accepted by the brahmacari and sannyasa. Not the vanaprastha.)
(The charity will be accepted by the brahmacari and sannyasa. Not the vanaprastha.)
In the vanaprastha stage of life tapasya, or austerity, is strongly recommended. Without it no human being can achieve liberation.
In the vanaprastha stage of life tapasya, or austerity, is strongly recommended. Without it no human being can achieve liberation.
The duty of those in the vanaprastha-asrama is to undergo austerity:
The duty of those in the vanaprastha-asrama is to undergo austerity:
(Austerity, study of Vedic literature, and philosophical research are meant for the vanaprasthas, or retired persons.)
(Austerity, study of Vedic literature, and philosophical research are meant for the vanaprasthas, or retired persons.)
“Brahmacari should offer yajna, grhastha should give in charity, and sannyasi, vanaprastha should undergo tapasya. Yajna-dana-tapah-karma. We should not give up this, these things.” (Lecture on SB. 5.6.2, Vrndavana, November 24, 1976)
“Brahmacari should offer yajna, grhastha should give in charity, and sannyasi, vanaprastha should undergo tapasya. Yajna-dana-tapah-karma. We should not give up this, these things.” (Lecture on SB. 5.6.2, Vrndavana, November 24, 1976)
“Human life is meant for tapasya, austerity, and penance. By tapasya, one can get out of the material clutches. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some inconveniences.” (SB 5.5.1, purport)
“Human life is meant for tapasya, austerity, and penance. By tapasya, one can get out of the material clutches. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some inconveniences.” (SB 5.5.1, purport)
13. Qualifications for entering vanaprastha.
13. Qualifications for entering vanaprastha.
The main qualifications for entering vanaprastha for men are:
The main qualifications for entering vanaprastha for men are:
One must be sufficiently mature physically, mentally, and spiritually. Detachment from material life and dependence on Krsna are required.
One must be sufficiently mature physically, mentally, and spiritually. Detachment from material life and dependence on Krsna are required.
Vanaprastha is not a change of dress or title but a change of mentality.
Vanaprastha is not a change of dress or title but a change of mentality.
One’s senses should be sufficiently under control.
One’s senses should be sufficiently under control.
There should be a willingness and ability to cut attachment to family and home.
There should be a willingness and ability to cut attachment to family and home.
One should be determined not to engage in loose association, womanizing, idle talk, and any form of unnecessary sense gratification.
One should be determined not to engage in loose association, womanizing, idle talk, and any form of unnecessary sense gratification.
Association with one’s wife, if done at all, should be restricted and in order to gain her help in serving the Lord.
Association with one’s wife, if done at all, should be restricted and in order to gain her help in serving the Lord.
“One who is not married – a sannyasi, brahmacari, or vanaprastha – should rigidly avoid anything related to sex and of course should never see any living entity, whether bird, insect, or human, engaging in the various phases of sexual intercourse.” (SB. 11.17.33, purport)
“One who is not married – a sannyasi, brahmacari, or vanaprastha – should rigidly avoid anything related to sex and of course should never see any living entity, whether bird, insect, or human, engaging in the various phases of sexual intercourse.” (SB. 11.17.33, purport)
Vanaprasthas should have good sadhana and a favorable devotional attitude. They have a responsibility as society’s elders to help care for their juniors.
Vanaprasthas should have good sadhana and a favorable devotional attitude. They have a responsibility as society’s elders to help care for their juniors.
14. Our recommendation and humble request to Srila Prabhupada’s followers is that they take his instructions regarding vanaprastha seriously.
14. Our recommendation and humble request to Srila Prabhupada’s followers is that they take his instructions regarding vanaprastha seriously.
As mentioned above, Srila Prabhupada was very much concerned for his disciples. Many of the devotee couples who were young during Srila Prabhupada’s time have been steadily practicing Krsna consciousness in the grhastha-asrama for years. Now, those devotees are in their fifties and sixties. It’s time for them to come forward and take Srila Prabhupada’s instructions on vanaprastha to heart. This will set an example for their younger counterparts and set a mood for future generations. And they could preach and help ISKCON’s members develop deeper roots, attract new people, share their wisdom and become mentors.
As mentioned above, Srila Prabhupada was very much concerned for his disciples. Many of the devotee couples who were young during Srila Prabhupada’s time have been steadily practicing Krsna consciousness in the grhastha-asrama for years. Now, those devotees are in their fifties and sixties. It’s time for them to come forward and take Srila Prabhupada’s instructions on vanaprastha to heart. This will set an example for their younger counterparts and set a mood for future generations. And they could preach and help ISKCON’s members develop deeper roots, attract new people, share their wisdom and become mentors.
The prime benefit for those devotees who adopt Vanaprastha will be, because of their life experiences, they would be very good teachers, mentors or guide plus either alone or together they would be excellent gurus to help furthering our Gaudiya Vaishnava ‘parampara’.
The prime benefit for those devotees who adopt Vanaprastha will be, because of their life experiences, they would be very good teachers, mentors or guide plus either alone or together they would be excellent gurus to help furthering our Gaudiya Vaishnava ‘parampara’.
Those who have accepted the responsibility of serving as spiritual masters for the generation of devotees after Srila Prabhupada’s departure have the duty of making sure their disciples adopt the vanaprastha which will help them in their journey to go back home back to Godhead. The spiritual master’s duty is to engage his disciples according to what is favorable for their spiritual advancement.
Those who have accepted the responsibility of serving as spiritual masters for the generation of devotees after Srila Prabhupada’s departure have the duty of making sure their disciples adopt the vanaprastha which will help them in their journey to go back home back to Godhead. The spiritual master’s duty is to engage his disciples according to what is favorable for their spiritual advancement.
B. Visual presence of the vanaprastha-asrama in our society.
B. Visual presence of the vanaprastha-asrama in our society.
In the past, and except for the writings of Janananda Maharaja, there has been little written about the vanaprastha-asrama. Janananda Maharaja published a book on the subject in February 2007.
In the past, and except for the writings of Janananda Maharaja, there has been little written about the vanaprastha-asrama. Janananda Maharaja published a book on the subject in February 2007.
Currently, devotees are giving seminars and courses on and preaching about the vanaprastha-asrama in ISKCON. For example, Her Grace Devaki Devi Dasi has established the Institute for Spiritual Culture, where courses on varnasrama-dharma and the vanaprastha-asrama are taught. His Holiness Romapada Swami also recently conducted a seminar at Gita-nagari entitled “Exploring Varnasrama.”
Currently, devotees are giving seminars and courses on and preaching about the vanaprastha-asrama in ISKCON. For example, Her Grace Devaki Devi Dasi has established the Institute for Spiritual Culture, where courses on varnasrama-dharma and the vanaprastha-asrama are taught. His Holiness Romapada Swami also recently conducted a seminar at Gita-nagari entitled “Exploring Varnasrama.”
Consequently, some devotees have developed a theoretical knowledge of vanaprastha. Others may even be quietly practicing vanaprastha in our Society. Unfortunately, because there are few visible examples of devotees practicing vanaprastha, the vanaprastha-asrama is not an officially established and visible asrama.
Consequently, some devotees have developed a theoretical knowledge of vanaprastha. Others may even be quietly practicing vanaprastha in our Society. Unfortunately, because there are few visible examples of devotees practicing vanaprastha, the vanaprastha-asrama is not an officially established and visible asrama.
C. Benefits of the Vanaprastha-asrama.
C. Benefits of the Vanaprastha-asrama.
Aspiring to the vanaprastha-asrama helps develop the mood of a gosvami, or controller of the senses. The preface to The Nectar of Instruction states: “First, one must become a perfect gosvami and then a pure devotee of the Lord.”
Aspiring to the vanaprastha-asrama helps develop the mood of a gosvami, or controller of the senses. The preface to The Nectar of Instruction states: “First, one must become a perfect gosvami and then a pure devotee of the Lord.”
The natural progression of the winding down of family affairs prepares one for uninterrupted meditation on the purpose of life: to develop Krishna consciousness free from life’s material demands.
The natural progression of the winding down of family affairs prepares one for uninterrupted meditation on the purpose of life: to develop Krishna consciousness free from life’s material demands.
Vanaprastha is not recommended as a way to boost for one’s the ego but to facilitate one’s focus on self-realization, particularly on the exclusive service of the Supreme Lord. To gain that focus involves leaving the service of one’s grown family in the hands of those still engaged by age and inclination in family affairs.
Vanaprastha is not recommended as a way to boost for one’s the ego but to facilitate one’s focus on self-realization, particularly on the exclusive service of the Supreme Lord. To gain that focus involves leaving the service of one’s grown family in the hands of those still engaged by age and inclination in family affairs.
Going through an official public ceremony is one method to confirm entrance into vanaprastha-asrama and would ease the transition both for the individual entering the asrama and those he or she is leaving behind.
Going through an official public ceremony is one method to confirm entrance into vanaprastha-asrama and would ease the transition both for the individual entering the asrama and those he or she is leaving behind.
One should accept vanaprastha naturally and without duplicity. It is not simply a formality but an internal state of detachment matched with appropriate external behavior. It is not an artificial social imposition.
One should accept vanaprastha naturally and without duplicity. It is not simply a formality but an internal state of detachment matched with appropriate external behavior. It is not an artificial social imposition.
D. Feasibility and mentality behind adopting the vanaprastha-asrama.
D. Feasibility and mentality behind adopting the vanaprastha-asrama.
The sannyasa-asrama may be out of reach for many devotees – all women and most men – but adopting the vanaprastha-asrama is much more possible for anyone serious about their spiritual life, especially those who have practiced Krsna consciousness for years. His Holiness Janananda Maharaja writes:
The sannyasa-asrama may be out of reach for many devotees – all women and most men – but adopting the vanaprastha-asrama is much more possible for anyone serious about their spiritual life, especially those who have practiced Krsna consciousness for years. His Holiness Janananda Maharaja writes:
“Those who have been steadily practicing Krsna consciousness in the grhastha-asrama for many years should have an irreplaceable depth of experience, conviction, and realization which is essential for the onward progress through the asramas and then back to Godhead. No amount of theoretical knowledge and sentiment can compare to that.”
“Those who have been steadily practicing Krsna consciousness in the grhastha-asrama for many years should have an irreplaceable depth of experience, conviction, and realization which is essential for the onward progress through the asramas and then back to Godhead. No amount of theoretical knowledge and sentiment can compare to that.”
E. Considerations for Practical Application.
E. Considerations for Practical Application.
1. Age:
1. Age:
Taking vanaprastha at age 51 may not be feasible in this day and age but at the latest, by 65.
Taking vanaprastha at age 51 may not be feasible in this day and age but at the latest, by 65.
2. Economic security
2. Economic security
As far as vanaprasthas living dependent on householders, the main concern is economic security. Our ISKCON Society is not in a position to maintain a vanaprastha-asrama. As an alternative, we suggest that wherever there is facility near a temple, the temple should provide housing for retired devotees (similar to retirement or assisted-living facilities) so that devotees accepting vanaprastha can perform devotional service at the temple. If a temple cannot provide accommodations, then vanaprasthas can move to a nearby farm community and perform service there.
As far as vanaprasthas living dependent on householders, the main concern is economic security. Our ISKCON Society is not in a position to maintain a vanaprastha-asrama. As an alternative, we suggest that wherever there is facility near a temple, the temple should provide housing for retired devotees (similar to retirement or assisted-living facilities) so that devotees accepting vanaprastha can perform devotional service at the temple. If a temple cannot provide accommodations, then vanaprasthas can move to a nearby farm community and perform service there.
3. Association with the opposite sex.
3. Association with the opposite sex.
Those who are not married should avoid associating with the opposite sex by glancing, touching, conversing, joking, or sporting while living in community or serving at a temple.
Those who are not married should avoid associating with the opposite sex by glancing, touching, conversing, joking, or sporting while living in community or serving at a temple.
4. Detachment from wife and family.
4. Detachment from wife and family.
According to Vedic principles, when retiring from family life one can take his wife with him, for the husband and wife are considered to be a unit and so can perform austerities for liberation together. One should not simply remain at home until time of death, but should separate from family life at timely moment and prepare himself to go back to Godhead. Vanaprastha means husband and wife give up sex. The wife is expected to give up any luxuries, remain austere, and only accept the bare necessities of life and the husband is expected to give up all the luxuries the wife provides.
According to Vedic principles, when retiring from family life one can take his wife with him, for the husband and wife are considered to be a unit and so can perform austerities for liberation together. One should not simply remain at home until time of death, but should separate from family life at timely moment and prepare himself to go back to Godhead. Vanaprastha means husband and wife give up sex. The wife is expected to give up any luxuries, remain austere, and only accept the bare necessities of life and the husband is expected to give up all the luxuries the wife provides.
1. The wife’s duty.
1. The wife’s duty.
When both husband and wife follow the regulative principles of austerity, they remain silent – that is, they do not speak prajalpa – and are not agitated by sex desire. Then both husband and wife will receive spiritual benefit.
When both husband and wife follow the regulative principles of austerity, they remain silent – that is, they do not speak prajalpa – and are not agitated by sex desire. Then both husband and wife will receive spiritual benefit.
“The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: One who desires to adopt the third order of life, vanaprastha, should enter the forest with a peaceful mind, leaving his wife with his mature sons, or else taking her along with him.” (SB 11.18.1)
“The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: One who desires to adopt the third order of life, vanaprastha, should enter the forest with a peaceful mind, leaving his wife with his mature sons, or else taking her along with him.” (SB 11.18.1)
“Nonetheless, the wife is expected to give up all luxurious habits. In this way both husband and wife can advance in spiritual consciousness. This advanced stage is called the paramahamsa stage, and once it is obtained, both husband and wife can be actually liberated from bodily consciousness.” (S.B. 4.28.44, purport)
“Nonetheless, the wife is expected to give up all luxurious habits. In this way both husband and wife can advance in spiritual consciousness. This advanced stage is called the paramahamsa stage, and once it is obtained, both husband and wife can be actually liberated from bodily consciousness.” (S.B. 4.28.44, purport)
If the husband takes sannyasa, the wife would return to the protection of her eldest son (or her children).
If the husband takes sannyasa, the wife would return to the protection of her eldest son (or her children).
“When the husband takes the renounced order of life, namely sannyasa, the wife is to return home and become a saintly woman, setting an example for her children and daughters-in-law and showing them how to live a life of austerity.” (SB 4.23.20, purport)
“When the husband takes the renounced order of life, namely sannyasa, the wife is to return home and become a saintly woman, setting an example for her children and daughters-in-law and showing them how to live a life of austerity.” (SB 4.23.20, purport)
One can take ksetra-sannyasa, if it is feasible.
One can take ksetra-sannyasa, if it is feasible.
“When one takes ksetra-sannyasa, he leaves his household life and goes to a place of pilgrimage devoted to Lord Visnu. Such places include Purusottama (Jagannatha Puri), Navadvipa-dhama, and Mathura-dhama. The ksetra-sannyasi lives in these places alone or with his family. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura considers ksetra-sannyasa to be the preferable vanaprastha situation in this Age of Kali.” (Cc., Madhya 16.130, purport)
“When one takes ksetra-sannyasa, he leaves his household life and goes to a place of pilgrimage devoted to Lord Visnu. Such places include Purusottama (Jagannatha Puri), Navadvipa-dhama, and Mathura-dhama. The ksetra-sannyasi lives in these places alone or with his family. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura considers ksetra-sannyasa to be the preferable vanaprastha situation in this Age of Kali.” (Cc., Madhya 16.130, purport)
F. Overall Theme
F. Overall Theme
“At the last stage of one’s life, one should be bold enough not to be afraid of death. But one must cut off all attachment to the material body and everything pertaining to it and all desires thereof.” (SB. 2.1.15)
“At the last stage of one’s life, one should be bold enough not to be afraid of death. But one must cut off all attachment to the material body and everything pertaining to it and all desires thereof.” (SB. 2.1.15)
G. Formal methods for transitioning into the Vanaprastha-asrama.
G. Formal methods for transitioning into the Vanaprastha-asrama.
1. Ceremony
1. Ceremony
Currently, there is no vanaprastha ceremony to mark this transition, but there are two good reasons to create such a ceremony:
Currently, there is no vanaprastha ceremony to mark this transition, but there are two good reasons to create such a ceremony:
a. It will help devotees transitioning into the vanaprastha-asrama consider the importance of their commitment. Also, doing so allows and invites the blessings of the community so that devotees will be successful in their endeavor.
a. It will help devotees transitioning into the vanaprastha-asrama consider the importance of their commitment. Also, doing so allows and invites the blessings of the community so that devotees will be successful in their endeavor.
b. A ceremony would make the idea of vanaprastha visible to all members of society.
b. A ceremony would make the idea of vanaprastha visible to all members of society.
The ceremony can consist of a fire sacrifice similar to what we perform for brahmana initiation. There are many fire sacrifices performed in our Society to mark samskaras, including entrance into the grhastha-asrama and entrance into the sannyasa-asrama. There could be a similar ceremony for initiation into the vanaprastha-asrama.
The ceremony can consist of a fire sacrifice similar to what we perform for brahmana initiation. There are many fire sacrifices performed in our Society to mark samskaras, including entrance into the grhastha-asrama and entrance into the sannyasa-asrama. There could be a similar ceremony for initiation into the vanaprastha-asrama.
2. Suggestion for adopting vanaprastha-asrama as an intermediate, preparatory step before sannyasa.
2. Suggestion for adopting vanaprastha-asrama as an intermediate, preparatory step before sannyasa.
Currently, sannyasa candidates have a waiting period of several years, during which the Sannyasa Ministry observes the sadhana and service activities of the candidate and allows him to engage in the types of preaching activities he would perform as a sannyasi. During that waiting period a grhastha applying for sannyasa candidacy may accept vanaprastha as an intermediate preparatory state and make himself visible.
Currently, sannyasa candidates have a waiting period of several years, during which the Sannyasa Ministry observes the sadhana and service activities of the candidate and allows him to engage in the types of preaching activities he would perform as a sannyasi. During that waiting period a grhastha applying for sannyasa candidacy may accept vanaprastha as an intermediate preparatory state and make himself visible.
(Taking of sannyasa order is in one sense only a formality. After couple of years as Vanaprastha, sannyasa can be considered if one’s behavior is ideal.)
(Taking of sannyasa order is in one sense only a formality. After couple of years as Vanaprastha, sannyasa can be considered if one’s behavior is ideal.)
3. Receiving a title.
3. Receiving a title.
According to Gaudiya sampradaya tradition Vanaprasthas are known as Vanacaris or GauraVanacari, just as grhasthas are called Adhikari and sannyasis Swami or Goswami.
According to Gaudiya sampradaya tradition Vanaprasthas are known as Vanacaris or GauraVanacari, just as grhasthas are called Adhikari and sannyasis Swami or Goswami.
Vanaprastha devotees could receive their title depending on the location of initiation – those accepting entrance into the asrama in Vrndavana can be called Vanacari and those in Mayapur GauraVanacari. Outside these locations, grhastha the title can be left up to the initiating spiritual master.
Vanaprastha devotees could receive their title depending on the location of initiation – those accepting entrance into the asrama in Vrndavana can be called Vanacari and those in Mayapur GauraVanacari. Outside these locations, grhastha the title can be left up to the initiating spiritual master.
(Gauravana is Lord Gauranga’s forest of Navadvipa and is described as the “shining golden tilaka covered with the white garments of Ganga’s waters, splendid with blossoming champaka flowers, filled with various rasas, and saturated with the sweetest nectar of krsna-prema, which is forever relished by the beloved son of Sri Jagannatha Misra. It is filled with the unlimited nectar of the sweet name of Radha.)
(Gauravana is Lord Gauranga’s forest of Navadvipa and is described as the “shining golden tilaka covered with the white garments of Ganga’s waters, splendid with blossoming champaka flowers, filled with various rasas, and saturated with the sweetest nectar of krsna-prema, which is forever relished by the beloved son of Sri Jagannatha Misra. It is filled with the unlimited nectar of the sweet name of Radha.)
1. Dress code:
1. Dress code:
At the time of a formal ceremony, along with the required blessings of the spiritual master, appropriate clothing can also be presented. Men can wear yellow dhoti grhastha style, which symbolizes that one is undergoing a vow, and women can wear a simple sari. A married woman can wear plain white saris with a colored border when she is with her husband or family.
At the time of a formal ceremony, along with the required blessings of the spiritual master, appropriate clothing can also be presented. Men can wear yellow dhoti grhastha style, which symbolizes that one is undergoing a vow, and women can wear a simple sari. A married woman can wear plain white saris with a colored border when she is with her husband or family.
In all cases, simplicity and detached mentality would be the order.
In all cases, simplicity and detached mentality would be the order.
“The dress code will create effective impressions on grhasthas’ minds that grhastha life is not everything and will not remain enjoyable forever, because as time goes by the body will have biological affects and become invalid in old age. Therefore, it is advisable to adopt vanaprastha, which is a winding down of the business of family life, and [coming to think], “I am not this perishable body – antavanta ime deha. This material body will die at any time, so I should develop vairagya vidya – spiritual knowledge in Krsna consciousness.” (Jayadvaita Swami, during an official ceremony for vanapravesh, March 7, 2016, on old gurukula grounds in Mayapur)
“The dress code will create effective impressions on grhasthas’ minds that grhastha life is not everything and will not remain enjoyable forever, because as time goes by the body will have biological affects and become invalid in old age. Therefore, it is advisable to adopt vanaprastha, which is a winding down of the business of family life, and [coming to think], “I am not this perishable body – antavanta ime deha. This material body will die at any time, so I should develop vairagya vidya – spiritual knowledge in Krsna consciousness.” (Jayadvaita Swami, during an official ceremony for vanapravesh, March 7, 2016, on old gurukula grounds in Mayapur)
G. Specific Vanaprastha Behaviors and Practices
G. Specific Vanaprastha Behaviors and Practices
1. Specific behaviors and practices are found in the following scriptures:
1. Specific behaviors and practices are found in the following scriptures:
“Tapas, or austerity, is especially meant for the retired life. A man retired from household life must practice austerities of the body, mind and tongue.” (BG. 16.1–3, purport)
“Tapas, or austerity, is especially meant for the retired life. A man retired from household life must practice austerities of the body, mind and tongue.” (BG. 16.1–3, purport)
“Similarly, austerity, study of Vedic literature, and philosophical research are meant for the vanaprasthas, or retired persons.” (SB. 3.32.34–36, purport)
“Similarly, austerity, study of Vedic literature, and philosophical research are meant for the vanaprasthas, or retired persons.” (SB. 3.32.34–36, purport)
“It is the practice of the yogi, brahmacari, vanaprastha,
“It is the practice of the yogi, brahmacari, vanaprastha,
and sannyasi to bathe at least three times daily – early in the morning, during noontime, and in the evening.” (SB 3.33.14, purport)
and sannyasi to bathe at least three times daily – early in the morning, during noontime, and in the evening.” (SB 3.33.14, purport)
“The grhastha-asrama is a sort of concession combining sense gratification with a regulative life. Those in the renounced order of life (the vanaprasthas and sannyasis) must practice penance and austerities. These are the procedures by which everyone can be elevated to the spiritual platform.” (SB. 4.14.9, purport)
“The grhastha-asrama is a sort of concession combining sense gratification with a regulative life. Those in the renounced order of life (the vanaprasthas and sannyasis) must practice penance and austerities. These are the procedures by which everyone can be elevated to the spiritual platform.” (SB. 4.14.9, purport)
“Tapasya is meant for the renounced order of life; those who are retired from worldly activities should perform tapasya, penances and austerities.” (SB. 4.12.10, purport)
“Tapasya is meant for the renounced order of life; those who are retired from worldly activities should perform tapasya, penances and austerities.” (SB. 4.12.10, purport)
“When both husband and wife follow the regulative principles of austerity, they remain silent and are not agitated by sex impulses. At such a time both husband and wife are benefited spiritually. One can attain this stage of life by completely giving up a luxurious mode of life.” (SB. 4.28.44, purport)
“When both husband and wife follow the regulative principles of austerity, they remain silent and are not agitated by sex impulses. At such a time both husband and wife are benefited spiritually. One can attain this stage of life by completely giving up a luxurious mode of life.” (SB. 4.28.44, purport)
Specific practices:
Specific practices:
Based on the above quotes and elsewhere in Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, specific ideal standard behaviors/the specific practices for vanaprastha can be summarized as:
Based on the above quotes and elsewhere in Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, specific ideal standard behaviors/the specific practices for vanaprastha can be summarized as:
1. Performing austerities related to the tongue, body, and mind.
1. Performing austerities related to the tongue, body, and mind.
2. Bathing three times a day or at least twice a day.
2. Bathing three times a day or at least twice a day.
3. Cultivating brahminical qualities such as truthfulness, mildness, sincerity, tolerance, forgiveness, self-control, friendship, benevolence, and nonviolence.
3. Cultivating brahminical qualities such as truthfulness, mildness, sincerity, tolerance, forgiveness, self-control, friendship, benevolence, and nonviolence.
4. Avoiding food from unclean places, eating more than required, and eating at night.
4. Avoiding food from unclean places, eating more than required, and eating at night.
5. Honoring prasadam prepared by devotees who chant at least sixteen rounds a day, whenever possible.
5. Honoring prasadam prepared by devotees who chant at least sixteen rounds a day, whenever possible.
6. Increasing austerities for self-purification.
6. Increasing austerities for self-purification.
7. Living simply and without wasting time, while fixing the mind on devotional service to Krsna.
7. Living simply and without wasting time, while fixing the mind on devotional service to Krsna.
8. Studying scripture, conducting philosophical research, and preaching. Vanaprasthas are usually teachers or mentors or guide. One advantage a vanaprastha has over someone in the sannyasa-asrama is that he or she can guide grhasthas through their difficulties with the wisdom of having lived through the asrama themselves. Because of their life experience Vanaprasthas either alone or together would make excellent gurus and help furthering our Gaudiya Vaishnava ‘parampara’.
8. Studying scripture, conducting philosophical research, and preaching. Vanaprasthas are usually teachers or mentors or guide. One advantage a vanaprastha has over someone in the sannyasa-asrama is that he or she can guide grhasthas through their difficulties with the wisdom of having lived through the asrama themselves. Because of their life experience Vanaprasthas either alone or together would make excellent gurus and help furthering our Gaudiya Vaishnava ‘parampara’.
9. Being simple and straightforward and not duplicitous when dealing with oneself and others
9. Being simple and straightforward and not duplicitous when dealing with oneself and others
10. Avoiding managerial positions, because profit (labha), prestige (pratistha), and adoration (puja) are natural by-products of position. Best not to seek such positions out. Pratistha is called sukarera vistha (pig stool). If one must take management responsibilities, be attached only to serving and not to the position.
10. Avoiding managerial positions, because profit (labha), prestige (pratistha), and adoration (puja) are natural by-products of position. Best not to seek such positions out. Pratistha is called sukarera vistha (pig stool). If one must take management responsibilities, be attached only to serving and not to the position.
11. Avoiding association with the opposite sex whether by glancing, touching, conversing, joking, or sporting.
11. Avoiding association with the opposite sex whether by glancing, touching, conversing, joking, or sporting.
12. Sleeping separate from one’s spouse and, if possible, on the floor or in a simple bed.
12. Sleeping separate from one’s spouse and, if possible, on the floor or in a simple bed.
13. Avoiding engagement in material, social, or family affairs.
13. Avoiding engagement in material, social, or family affairs.
14. Controlling the tongue (no more gramya-katha) and senses (vaco vegam). Don’t criticize anything or anyone.
14. Controlling the tongue (no more gramya-katha) and senses (vaco vegam). Don’t criticize anything or anyone.
15. As far as possible, try to live apart from the family, and practice remaining alone.
15. As far as possible, try to live apart from the family, and practice remaining alone.
16. Sleep only six hours a day and rise during the brahma-muhurta.
16. Sleep only six hours a day and rise during the brahma-muhurta.
17. Spending as much time as possible performing quality japa.
17. Spending as much time as possible performing quality japa.
18. Reducing bodily needs. Simplify everything. Renunciation is the wealth of the brahmanas.
18. Reducing bodily needs. Simplify everything. Renunciation is the wealth of the brahmanas.
19. Serve, and whenever possible, travel with advanced Vaisnavas.
19. Serve, and whenever possible, travel with advanced Vaisnavas.
20. At the time of vanaprastha pravesh, following the example of Rupa Gosvami, divide your money: 50 percent distributed to qualified and pure devotees of the Lord or for the propagation of the Krsna consciousness movement; 25 percent given to family members; 25 percent kept for personal use in case of emergency. Don’t store provisions or have a large bank balance.
20. At the time of vanaprastha pravesh, following the example of Rupa Gosvami, divide your money: 50 percent distributed to qualified and pure devotees of the Lord or for the propagation of the Krsna consciousness movement; 25 percent given to family members; 25 percent kept for personal use in case of emergency. Don’t store provisions or have a large bank balance.
21. Dedicate as much as possible one’s time and efforts in preaching such as the distribution of Srila Prabhupada’s books, harinama, prasadam distribution, and home programs.
21. Dedicate as much as possible one’s time and efforts in preaching such as the distribution of Srila Prabhupada’s books, harinama, prasadam distribution, and home programs.
The purpose of this paper is to seriously consider taking up the practices of the vanaprastha-asrama.
The purpose of this paper is to seriously consider taking up the practices of the vanaprastha-asrama.
I am presenting the ideal and standard behavior of a vanaprastha. The asrama is not meant as an imposition but a help. Since example is better than precept, I am trying to practice the points in this paper. His Grace Mahatma Prabhu writes in article “What you Live You give”: “We have not yet become what we believe.
I am presenting the ideal and standard behavior of a vanaprastha. The asrama is not meant as an imposition but a help. Since example is better than precept, I am trying to practice the points in this paper. His Grace Mahatma Prabhu writes in article “What you Live You give”: “We have not yet become what we believe.
It has become obvious to us that what our movement needs more than scholars are exemplars of our philosophy.
It has become obvious to us that what our movement needs more than scholars are exemplars of our philosophy.
What we live is what we give. As we live bhakti, we give bhakti. Let us become what we believe.” This is my ambition.
What we live is what we give. As we live bhakti, we give bhakti. Let us become what we believe.” This is my ambition.
I hope and pray that this presentation has awakened awareness in the minds of the readers of what’s possible for them, and will be helpful to eligible vanaprastha candidates on their spiritual journey. I am very fallen, and so I beg forgiveness for any offenses and ask everyone to please give me their mercy and blessings.
I hope and pray that this presentation has awakened awareness in the minds of the readers of what’s possible for them, and will be helpful to eligible vanaprastha candidates on their spiritual journey. I am very fallen, and so I beg forgiveness for any offenses and ask everyone to please give me their mercy and blessings.
Dasanudasa,
Dasanudasa,
Jaya Gaurasundara dasa Gauravanacari.
Jaya Gaurasundara dasa Gauravanacari.
H. Our progress in Spiritual life leading to Vanprastha:
H. Our progress in Spiritual life leading to Vanprastha:
We took first initiation from HDG Srila Satsvarupa dasa Goswami Maharaja in 1982 in Baltimore temple a first time ever fire sacrifice for initiation was done in the small temple room. Right after first initiation I asked my Gurumaharaj “What do you want me to do now?” His answer was “Nothing special but be an ideal Grhastha”. Then we received second (Brahmana) initiation in 1983 in Gita Nagari on the auspicious day of Nrsimha Caturdasi.
We took first initiation from HDG Srila Satsvarupa dasa Goswami Maharaja in 1982 in Baltimore temple a first time ever fire sacrifice for initiation was done in the small temple room. Right after first initiation I asked my Gurumaharaj “What do you want me to do now?” His answer was “Nothing special but be an ideal Grhastha”. Then we received second (Brahmana) initiation in 1983 in Gita Nagari on the auspicious day of Nrsimha Caturdasi.
In the year 2014 we went to see our Guru Maharaja on Radha Astami. During our conversation, he said he had heard that in August of previous year, we had celebrated our 50th Marriage anniversary. I replied that “It was last year gurumaharaja. Now it is 51st. year of our married life.” That magic number 51 somehow made me inquire from him about Vanprastha initiation in ISKCON. His answer was NO. There is no such procedure. Later that year (July, 2014) I heard that, HH Jayadvait Swami Maharaja was looking for volunteers who would take Vanprastha asrama to provide more visibility to that asrama. So, at the Harrisburg RathaYatra festival of 2015, when I met HH Jayadvait Swami Maharaja I volunteered to officially take Vanprastha. In order to know more about Vanprasth asrama, I gathered information from “Vanipedia” about what Srila Prabhupada had to say about Vanprasth asrama. From the gathered information, Srila Prabhupada’s following quotes made me think seriously about taking Vanaprasth. — “One should be very much ashamed of remaining a householder. It is not that a grhastha should live at home until he dies.” “Tapa, or austerity, is especially meant for the retired life. One should not remain a householder throughout his whole life with grandchildren.”
In the year 2014 we went to see our Guru Maharaja on Radha Astami. During our conversation, he said he had heard that in August of previous year, we had celebrated our 50th Marriage anniversary. I replied that “It was last year gurumaharaja. Now it is 51st. year of our married life.” That magic number 51 somehow made me inquire from him about Vanprastha initiation in ISKCON. His answer was NO. There is no such procedure. Later that year (July, 2014) I heard that, HH Jayadvait Swami Maharaja was looking for volunteers who would take Vanprastha asrama to provide more visibility to that asrama. So, at the Harrisburg RathaYatra festival of 2015, when I met HH Jayadvait Swami Maharaja I volunteered to officially take Vanprastha. In order to know more about Vanprasth asrama, I gathered information from “Vanipedia” about what Srila Prabhupada had to say about Vanprasth asrama. From the gathered information, Srila Prabhupada’s following quotes made me think seriously about taking Vanaprasth. — “One should be very much ashamed of remaining a householder. It is not that a grhastha should live at home until he dies.” “Tapa, or austerity, is especially meant for the retired life. One should not remain a householder throughout his whole life with grandchildren.”
So, I was ready to go through the official process now with firm determination. Officially, mine and my wife’s life as Vanaprastha began on March 7, 2016 at noon on Old Gurukula Ground in Sri Dham Mayapur. I received a title GauraVanacari and accepted yellow dress just to distinguish from Grhatha and Brahmacari or Sannyasi.
So, I was ready to go through the official process now with firm determination. Officially, mine and my wife’s life as Vanaprastha began on March 7, 2016 at noon on Old Gurukula Ground in Sri Dham Mayapur. I received a title GauraVanacari and accepted yellow dress just to distinguish from Grhatha and Brahmacari or Sannyasi.
In response to HH Jayadvaita Maharaja’s request our Gurumaharaj wrote following letter to be read during our Vanaprastha initiation:
In response to HH Jayadvaita Maharaja’s request our Gurumaharaj wrote following letter to be read during our Vanaprastha initiation:
Subject: Re: Vanaprastha initiation
Subject: Re: Vanaprastha initiation
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:03 -0500
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:03 -0500
From: Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami (ACBSP)
From: Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami (ACBSP)
To: JSwami
To: JSwami
Dear Jayadvaita Maharaja, Jaya Gaurasundara and Kaumodaki,
Dear Jayadvaita Maharaja, Jaya Gaurasundara and Kaumodaki,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I want to congratulate you all and praise you for taking part in the first ISKCON *vanaprastha* ceremony. It is very auspicious, and the participants are all well-qualified. Jayadvaita Maharaja is very committed to giving *vanaprastha* initiations and has deep realizations on the subject in accordance with Prabhupada’s teachings and the revealed scriptures. Jaya Gaurasundara and his wife have always been ideal devotees and preachers.
I want to congratulate you all and praise you for taking part in the first ISKCON *vanaprastha* ceremony. It is very auspicious, and the participants are all well-qualified. Jayadvaita Maharaja is very committed to giving *vanaprastha* initiations and has deep realizations on the subject in accordance with Prabhupada’s teachings and the revealed scriptures. Jaya Gaurasundara and his wife have always been ideal devotees and preachers.
They have welcomed me at their house on many occasions, and we have a long history of good association. I praise them, and I am proud of them. As they have been ideal *grhasthas, * I am certain they will be ideal* vanaprasthas.
They have welcomed me at their house on many occasions, and we have a long history of good association. I praise them, and I am proud of them. As they have been ideal *grhasthas, * I am certain they will be ideal* vanaprasthas.
*I wish them all success in their new lifestyle of detachment, simplicity and increased Krishna consciousness. You are all setting an ideal example for the entire ISKCON. I would like to have been present for the ceremony, but I am not able. I am with you in loving spirit. I offer you my humble obeisances.
*I wish them all success in their new lifestyle of detachment, simplicity and increased Krishna consciousness. You are all setting an ideal example for the entire ISKCON. I would like to have been present for the ceremony, but I am not able. I am with you in loving spirit. I offer you my humble obeisances.
Hoping this meets you all in good spirits.
Hoping this meets you all in good spirits.
Your servant,
Your servant,
Satsvarupa dasa Goswami
Satsvarupa dasa Goswami
‘To study scripture and conduct philosophical research’ being one of the specific practices of Vanaprasthi, I am writing this paper entitled: “The Vanaprastha Asrama and Its Practical Application”
‘To study scripture and conduct philosophical research’ being one of the specific practices of Vanaprasthi, I am writing this paper entitled: “The Vanaprastha Asrama and Its Practical Application”
Begging everyone for their mercy and blessings again,
Begging everyone for their mercy and blessings again,
Dasanudasa,
Dasanudasa,
Jaya Gaurasundara dasa Gauravanacari.
Jaya Gaurasundara dasa Gauravanacari.
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