Ep. 8: Karen Tan

Xianfeng: Welcome to Cha-Tea Circle! I'm Xianfeng. Today, I'm excited to have Karen Tan with us to share a remarkable story of a Chinese Buddhist community in Quincy, Massachusetts. It is call 千佛寺qianfo si, Thousand Buddha Temple.

Thousand Buddha Temple is a significant sanctuary of the Tiantai lineage, founded by the venerable abbess Kuanxian宽贤, a dedicated Buddhist nun from Hong Kong and a disciple of Ven Yongxing. During the 1980s, the mostly Cantonese-speaking Chinese immigrants in the Greater Boston area would have to drive five hours to New York City to celebrate holidays at a Buddhist temple. When Ven Kuanxian arrived in Boston, her presence quickly drew a devoted following.

Today, the Thousand Buddha Temple has not only become a cherished place of worship but also a notable tourist destination. However, the journey to establish this revered institution was anything but easy. Karen's story beautifully encapsulates the experiences of first-generation immigrants and the unique challenges faced by a minority religious community in the United States.

Xianfeng: Hi Karen, can you tell us a little about yourself? 

Karen: Hi, my name is Karen. I'm born in South Vietnam under the capitalism country. I was born in 1962 in an upper-class family. I'm one of the boat people. I left Vietnam in 1979 by boat. I land in Malaysia. And I stay in Malaysia refugee camps for two years. During that two years, we're waiting for country who willing to take the refugee. And finally, we migrated to Toronto, Canada, and we lived there for five years.

I went to high school and college over there. And finally, I met my husband, who I know back in the refugee camp in Malaysia. And we think that our relationship is quite good. So I got married. I moved to Boston in 1987. 

Xianfeng: What did you do after you moved into Boston? 

Karen: First thing, I don't have my green card. I have to wait for it. During that two years, I went to school to complete my degrees and I'm working in New England medical journals as an accounting clerk. And then in 2004, I went to Minuteman High School to teach. 

I love my job as a baking instructor. I have a lot of fun with the high school students. I'm very enjoying my job. Even I'm retired now, I still miss my job. 

Xianfeng: Can you tell us something about your relationship with the Thousand Buddha Temple? How did you meet with Sifu, to start with?

Karen: Well, it's back in, I not quite remember, it's way back, I think it's in 1989 or 1990. My husband's sister-in-law’s mother told me that there's a temple in Quincy. I said, wow, in Boston they have a temple? She said, yeah, but it's not like a temple. It's like a household. I said, okay. She willing to take me there. That's how I met Sifu. 

And I look at the Buddhist statue. I feel very comfortable. I feel peace. And I also look at Sifu. She is very kind, and she taught me a lot. One more important thing is she speaks Cantonese and make me feel like, Oh, just like back home my great grandmother brought me to the temple. I saw the Sifu, they speak Cantonese too. So I feel a way of reminding my homeland. I feel comfortable, so I start to go to Jin Kwan Ji. 

Almost every Sunday, I will go there, and we have chanting, worship the Buddha. But my Chinese is terrible. I only do side work, I didn't go up to do the chanting. But six months later, it's getting further down, we have more and more Buddhists. We have like almost 40 people, and we park the car. We do it in a legal way—where they say we can park the car, but we didn't realize this. We are in a residence, we're not supposed to be gathering to pray.

We think we did nothing wrong because we do good things. We're praying, we're not drinking or dancing. But somehow our chanting’s voice too loud, disturbed the neighborhood on this Sunday peaceful morning. And they started to complain, but not directly to us. They called the police, and we get the police knock the door.

Sifu don't speak English. She said, “What’s going on? We did not do anything wrong.” I said, “Well, let me check!” And they say, “oh, you guys cannot gathering people. This is a residence. It's not supposed to gathering more than 20 people constantly on every Sunday and park the car.” 

We say that we park the car where the sign say that we can park. We did not block anyone's driveway.

They say, “no, that's not it is. This is in the (residence). In here, if you want to gathering together that constantly, every Sunday, then you have to find a commercial place.” 

We say, “what is a commercial place different than the residence?”

They say, “residence you can have party once in a while, but not constantly, every Sunday.” That is the point. 

We cannot find the place right away. And we have to ask for real estate and other fellows to help us out. Somehow during that time, if we have a ceremony, we have to rental a function hall in Chinatown, and give us a very difficulty. We have to move the Buddha statues out there and all the equipment, and the chanting book. 

Xianfeng: How big was the Buddha statue? 

Karen: It's quite big! It's quite big. It's just like five feet tall. 

Xianfeng: Almost a person. 

Karen: A little bit shorter than me. I shouldn't say compare the Buddha statue to my height, but I'm five two, but it's five feet. So it's quite tall. And quite heavy.

I think it's almost eighty to a hundred pounds. We need four to five strong young men, and we have a rental car to carry it. It is a lot of work, but everybody's very happy, willing to do it.

That's how a lot of people doesn't even know that there's a temple we want to build in Quincy, we will be finding a place. A lot of people from Chinatown all over Boston come to that function hall. It helped a lot when we need the donations, and we need help. That's how we found a lot of volunteer—people from Rhode Island, New Hampshire, even people from New York. It's a lot! A lot of people willing to help.

We took a whole year to find a place. First thing, we find one church. But Sifu said, no, I want to build a traditional Chinese temple. Church cannot convert into this because the roof, you have no way you can change it. So we walk around, we're looking for, we find a function hall, the roof is flat.

She said, okay, [she like it. But the price is not right. So we keep looking and looking. After a year, we go back to the same place. The selling price is cutting in half, it's helping us a lot!

Finally we found the place today in Quincy at Mass Avenue, we rebuilt the whole thing! The inside of the function hall, we changed a little bit. But the roof top, we built a traditional Chinese temple's outlook. It’s very, very close to the temple in China or in Hong Kong. We are very happy about it.

We have a lot of people coming. Some of them is the Buddhists, but some of them newcomer. We give people a place to pray. As a first Asian community, not only see Asian people speak the same dialect but something is very familiar.

Most of the people in Asia, they go to temple. But here, in Boston, we never saw a temple. This is the first one. People feel so released and happy and they feel comfortable to come! almost every time we have a ceremony, we have more than a hundred people. When we bought it, we have meeting with the town and they ask us, “How many people will come in?” We tell them approximately 150 people each time. And they come in, they check it, make sure the building is safe, and enough space for people to move around in case any emergency. I found that is very good thing to learn.

It's not only we pray, but we also think about the safety of the people: people coming to the temple and enough space for them to move around in case anything happened. Of course, I hope it's nothing going to happen. But it's good to know the difference between residential and commercial, not they discriminate because we are Asians, or because we build a temple. But it's for our safety, and to keep the people in the resident area a piece of quiet. If I live as a resident around there, I will complain, too. So I totally understand that. And I'm very peaceful to learn, this is the total difference. In American's law, that the thing is to protect both sides, the residents and the commercial place.

Xianfeng: That story of building a temple so that people have a place to go and pray reminds me of a story that you once told me about the doctor. Dr. Zhao Yisheng, who is an acupuncturist, and who treats the Buddhist monastics for free, including myself. 

Karen: Dr. Zhao Yisheng is a very nice lady. She don't have the time to come to the temple to pray because she's a doctor. She have to open, especially Saturday and Sunday, she do the acupuncture. In another way, she donate her service and her time to the monk. 

As a Buddhist, you don't have to go to the temple to pray all the time. But if you have time, you want to go, that is good. Even when you go to the temple like me, sometimes I do the volunteer job, I don't even have time to pray. But it doesn't mean I'm not (Buddhist). I can do the chanting at home, let other newcomer come, they can chanting in the temple, they have all different practice.

Some people like chanting, like me. Some people like to do meditations. We also have time for meditation too, and some people like to listen to the lecture. And we have monks talk about the lecture, about the sutras. Because when you do the chanting, you're just chanting. You can understand the surface wording, but you might not understand the deep meaning in it.

Just like you read a book, you can understand it, but are you totally understand it? No. Sometimes It's good to have someone give you explanation. In Buddhism, we have three different ways for you to practice. You can pick the right way that you like. Some people don't like to chanting, they just like to sit there and meditate. I can do it once in a while, but I like the chanting. I like the bow things. And also I like the lectures. Even my Chinese is not good, but I learn a lot. I like it, they have all different ways for you to practice Buddhism. 

Xianfeng: What do you mean your Chinese is not good? Are you saying your Mandarin as a difference between the Mandarin versus Cantonese, or you're not reading the characters?

Karen: The character is not good. Because my Chinese—I only finished elementary school of Chinese, then I left the country. So, my Chinese is no good. I have to thank the sifu that she taught me a lot. Because she told me to do the chanting. I tell her that I don't know Chinese. How am I going to do the chanting? She said, “oh, then you can read it. If you don't understand, you ask me.” I said, “no.” 

I give her a recorder. I said, “why didn't you chanting, then I record it. I take home. I can read, I can follow the recorder, I can follow whatever you chanting. I would do it. It's easy that way because I can practice over and over again.” That's how I learned too. 

Xianfeng: What were the regular events in the temple like? Was it the same since when you were in the 定光寺 Dingguang si and the Thousand Buddha Temple? And in the one year in between?

Karen: Well, in Dingguang si, it's a residence. We only do the chanting, and we barely have the meditations because of the space limitations. But in the Thousand Buddha temple, it's quite big, so we have enough room to do meditations, and very quiet. We have a different room for teaching. And when we do chanting, we have a big function hall too, so it's quite different. That's why we have more activity in the Thousand Buddha Temple than in the Dingguang si.

Xianfeng: what were your favorite?

Karen: It's when I saw people come in, do the chanting, they really put their minds into the chanting and forgot about themselves and willing to follow because some of the followers, they know it, they can chanting faster, no. That is how you put you out, to listen and pay attention to the leader monks when you do the chanting.

If she do it fast, you follow her. If she do it slow, you have to do it slow. When she bow, you bow. That is how everybody let themselves out, but really doing the chanting and the praying that is deep in your mind to calm yourself down; not like, “I do what I want!” That is very important.

Most today people, I say, I'm right, I have to do it my way. No. If you can let yourself go and you peacefully follow the monk, then you really calm yourself and you let it go. That's the most happy thing. And after the chanting, I see people feel released and happy, that make me more happy than anything.

Xianfeng: Do you think the experience of immigration, moving to Boston has an influence on people's experience at a Buddhist temple like this? 

Karen: Well, I think it did have the influence because more Asian countries, China, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, the major belief is Buddhism. And when they come in a new place, they can see some familiar that they used to see.

Just like when you go to Thailand, you'll see a lot of Buddha statue, but it doesn't mean everybody believe in Buddhism. But it's built in our mind since we was a kid. This is like so familiar, a comfort that you go back to your home. That makes people feel very peaceful when they look at it.

Because when you come here, first thing you don't hear your own language, you don't see thing that you used to see. But when you go to the temple, you see the Buddhas. And you hear the same dialect, Cantonese, Mandarin, Taishanese, but we see the same facial.

We might not know each other, but we all feel the same, like, wow, this is a big family. We make new friends. We learn that this is a small world. We all have the same belief, and we all have almost the same knowledge in Buddhisms, and we have found that we make a lot of friends, and we feel comfort.

Xianfeng: It's interesting for me to hear you mention two different things. One is the family, so people come here and find, oh, we are like a big family. And then on the other hand, you mentioned people from many different Asian countries. Who are the people coming here and these people from different countries, how do you think they come to find a family together at this temple?

Karen: Well, we find we are as the family at the temple, because we all believe in Buddhism. We are all Asians. We all live in America. So we are all new immigrant. We all left our country, go to a new place to start our new life. But we are very fortunate that we can go to a temple, and we saw something very familiar. It's the home, or homey things. This is kind of like you go home, because it's far away. Even you take an airplane, it's 24 hours or 16 hours, it's too far away. So we prefer to go to the temple, it's only one or two hours, it's much more easier. 

Xianfeng: Then, I have a follow up question, between Thousand Buddha Temple as a temple, as a place…

Karen: Yes. 

Xianfeng: And Sifu, as the leader, which one do you think is more important for attracting so many people?

Karen: It doesn't matter where it is, you still have to have a leader. And the leader have to organize, and the people have to help the leader, just like in a country you have a president. In the temple, you have to have the sifu, and she will guide it. Maybe you think, uh, her way is not the way I like it, but it have to be rule and regulations, even you go to a house, you have your parents. They will is the one to guide you. You cannot do whatever you want in the temple. For example, you cannot bring meat into Thousand Buddha temple. That is the rule. She just followed the footsteps of the Buddha's teaching. Sifu is just like a teacher to guide us.

Xianfeng: In your how many years coming to the temple, how has this experience made your life different?

Karen: Well, I've been… went to the temple I think it's 34 years, 32, 34 years, I don't remember exactly, but it's changing me a lot. I met a lot of different people, I changed a lot by letting myself go. When I look at things, it's not only when I look at it, I really have to see it. When you see it, you just see the surface.

You have to learn how to look. Every story has two sides. And if you don't calm yourself down, then you see things only one way. You will aggravate yourself, you will make people sad because you don't think twice before you talk. I learned a lot about it. Every time I get angry, or not happy, and I remember that the Buddha's teaching is, when you're angry, you hurt yourself, nobody else. So you might as well let it go. So I learned a lot. 

I try to not to be angry all the time, or look at things in a different way. I calmed myself down a lot after I went to the temple. And I know that everybody have their own way of looking at things. People don't have to agree with me, I don't have to agree with them. But if we can solve the problem in a way, that is better than arguing and angry. 

Xianfeng:  You mentioned the difficulty in life. But the very fundamental experience of being a refugee at the refugee camp, how did you relate to Buddhism? Or is that the reason why you wanted to come to the Buddhist temple in the first place? 

Karen: Well, as a refugee, every day, we don't know who's going to accept us, who's going to take us, so we only pray. In Malaysia, in the refugee camp where I stay, they have a temple, too. 

Xianfeng: a Buddhist temple?

Karen: Yeah, Buddhist temple. And they have church, they build next to each other, because it's a small island. There's no conflict. If you make a right turn, you go to the temple. If you make a left turn, you go to church. But we have no conflict.

Everybody is a refugee. We pray for it. Because as the boat people, on the way out, we saw dead people. We're very fortunate we have our life. So we're not going to fight about the religions. You believe your God, I believe my Buddhism. We're working well in the refugee camp. No fighting for that. Everybody go to pray that, first thing, we're very thankful for the Buddha that we have the blessing that we still have our life. The second thing, we pray that we're going to leave that island very soon. We hope that we can have whoever country going to pick us up we gonna go. We have no choice. We sit there every day to wait.

I live in a refugee camp for two years. It's a very tough time. So, when we get here, we're very appreciative. I keep believing in Buddhism. I always believe that the Buddhas keep their eyes on us. That's why I go to the temple.

Xianfeng: what kinds of practice do you do now as a Buddhist?

Karen: Well, chanting. 

Xianfeng: Do you chant at your home? 

Karen: Yes, I do chanting in my house every day. I try to pick a time for chanting for an hour. If I'm not lazy, I will do meditations for half hour. That's my limitation for meditations, half hour. And if I can sit—I can sit my body for half hour, not moving, it's not difficult.

But if my mind can sit for half hour, not willing somewhere else, that is difficult. Sitting the body is not tough meditation. You're mindful, be peaceful, don't wandering around, jumping like a monkey in the jungle, that is very difficult. 

Xianfeng: What do you chant and what kind of meditation you do? Is there a particular kind of sutra or ritual that you chant? 

Karen: 阿弥陀经(Amitabha Sutra). I love it the most. When I first read that sutra, I feel it's so beautiful place. It's just like, when I was alive, I want to find a place peaceful to live. If I pass away, I still want to go to a peaceful place to live. Am I going to get there? I don't know. I pray, because it's so beautiful! The sutra says that the place is so comfy and calm. And I feel that, if I pass away because of Buddhism, I believe that my spiritual can go there.

Am I going there? I have no clue. I'm still alive. I don't know. So that's why I have to practice every day and try to calm my mind down through the meditation. Because at the last minute, I have to go, then have to calm myself before I can go. And I have the willing to let myself go. If not, then it's very tough. It's like all my practice going to be waste. That is my opinion. 

Xianfeng: Thank you. It sounds like that's the hope that you hope for everybody who visits the temple. That's why you help them. 

Karen: Yes. Yes. 

Xianfeng: So, I'm going to ask you something less Buddhist. If I call you, Karen, you're Asian American. How do you feel like that? 

Karen: Well, I will tell you that I'm Chinese. My root is Chinese. And I have American citizenship. It doesn't mean that I become American. You cannot change that. My root is always Chinese. 

I have American citizenship. I live in America. You can say that I'm American. It's just like when people celebrate holiday. The Jewish holiday, they're always Jewish. Even they born here three or four generations. Italian? You cannot say them Italian Americans, they are Americans.

But when they celebrate their holiday, they call it Italian holiday. It's just like the same thing. Me, Chinese, I celebrate my Chinese holiday. But I'm here, I'm American citizen, so I'm American. So, it's no such thing Asian Americans. 

Xianfeng: You're both Chinese and American. 

Karen: Yes. You cannot say that Chinese American.

My root is never changed. It's just like Italian, Jewish, they never changed. Even they born here, they are American too. But you ask them, are you American? Yeah, but I'm Jewish. Oh yeah, I'm Italian. Oh yeah, I'm Irish. Just like the way I am, I taught my kids the same way. It doesn't matter where you born. Your root is your root.

You're only born in a different country. You are their citizens. And you have the right to carry out where you live that citizenship. 

Xianfeng: Thank you so much. 

Karen: You're welcome.