Numbers
Engine number 103, the third Turner Triumph engine and probably the first Turner Tiger 90. Discovered by Bruce Cooper of Texas and now with Phil Powell in Australia
Another very early (only the eleventh) engine, 6S number 111, also in Australia. This engine was still in it's original frame TH 123. Thanks Anthony
The 6S above also shows the first Turner gearbox, number 101. The earliest complete bike I've come across and interesting because it demonstrates well the factory practice of number stamping in batches. ie a number of frames, engines and gearboxes were all stamped at once and then final assembly occurred later. These batches could be quite small (a dozen or two) or much larger (over a hundred) and this creates much confusion. For example it's possible to find a 1939 stamped engine in a frame with an earlier/lower number than another (apparently later) frame with a 1938 stamped engine. Quite a common occurence at the season changeover time in September. Gearbox numbers were always quite close (but not the same) to engine numbers right through to the post-war era.
Very early Speed Twin cylinder barrel showing unusual flange arrangement. Dates from October 1937 and is extremely rare. Thanks Mike Davis.
Original invoice for 1937 model 3H. Another early set of numbers although by now the frame/engine number discrepancy has gone to 308/422. This tells us that Triumph had now sold 321 bikes, of which 207 were lightweights. The invoice is to a Walsall dealer showing a 20% discount. Bike cost just over £40!
From first to last
Maybe the last girder tiger 100 engine. Tim Mills of Nyack, NY found this 1941 Tiger 100 in Oregon in the middle nineties. Bike belonged to Ken Edmiston, bike racer and builder. Edmiston worked at a Triumph dealer in Oregon as a teenager and the bike was one of a batch of three claimed as the last order from the factory before it was destroyed. According to him one of the other three was race prepped and finished in black. The story makes sense as it is the only 41 numbered engine I have seen and the latest/highest engine number on my civilian pre-war/wartime register.
Frame and engine numbers
For help identifying and dating frames and engines please see contact page. If you have a complete set of data (engine/frame/first date of registration) for a pre-war machine please consider adding it to my register. It will not be shared with anyone, just used to date other numbers
Frame & engine numbers 1934-1936
There were four frame designs during this era: All 500cc/550cc and 350cc ohv used the same frame. 250cc and 350cc sv used a lighter frame. Both the L2/1 and the 6/1 were each fitted with unique frames.
The 500cc ohv/550cc sv/350cc ohv frame (part F848) carried an S (standard) prefix engine number for machines with the 500cc/550cc engine, but an SL (standard light) prefix for machines with the 350cc ohv engine. The same frame but with a different number prefix according to which engine was fitted. Very confusing.
The 250/350cc sv frame (part F1068) always carried an SL (standard light) prefix.
L2/1 frames (part F1373) are prefixed L and 6/1 frames have a V prefix.
Engine numbers included a letter which signifies an engine size code:
R for 250cc. L for lightweight 250cc. T for 350cc.
S for 500cc/550cc. V for 650cc.
The engine number starts with the mark number: at that time Triumph grouped 2/5, 3/5, 5/5 etc as the Mark 5 range, and the 2/1, 5/1 etc as the mark 1 range, and so on. Then the engine size code (above), with a year code, which is the last number only of the year (eg 5 for 1935). So, for example, a number beginning 4. S5 is a 1935 500cc model 5/4. Similarly, a number beginning 1. R4 is a 1934 250cc model 2/1. This complicated sequence is then followed by the engine number itself, limited to four digits or less. Frame numbers advanced at a greater rate (not quite twice as fast but something close) than engine numbers (the opposite to post 1937-40 practice) which implies that engine numbers used more than one sequence. If so it seems there was only one frame number sequence for all S/SL prefixed frames. However, both L and V prefixed frames seem to follow their own individual sequences, with engine numbers being very close to frame numbers, for each, all the way through. I have frame numbers running up to around 5600 for S/SL on my register. L numbers go to around 2500, and V numbers to about 560. Altogether making an approx total production of something approaching 9000 machines.
The introduction of the interim Tiger models in mid 1936 then resulted in another letter as an additional T prefix in front of the existing sequence. The Tiger 80 used a 3/2 single port engine and so adopted an engine code of T2. T6. The Tiger 90 used a 5/5 twin port basis and was numbered T5. S6. The Tiger 70 was based on the L2/1 and used T1. L6 codes.
Frame and engine numbers 1937–1940
From October 1936 the whole range was divided into two types of frame: heavyweight and lightweight, although this time both frames used separate numbering sequences running in parallel.
Heavyweight models (500cc ohv/600cc sv) frame coded TH (Triumph Heavy)
Lightweight models (250/350cc ohv & 500cc sv) frame coded TL (Triumph Light)
The numbering probably started with TH 101 and TL 101.
Engine numbers too started with 101. Each engine number is unique, that is to say one numbering sequence ran through all models. In other words, engine number 10778 might be a 5T, 10779 might be a 3H. In this way engine numbers progressed at roughly twice the rate of frame numbers as both types of frame had a separate sequence. The engine number is always preceded by the year and model code so an 8-5T prefix denotes a 1938 5T. Triumph used year codes in their engine numbers for sixteen years (with the exception of 1941 and 1949) up to 1951, and this code denotes the model year (referred to as the 'Season' by Triumph, ie 'this seasons models') not the calendar year. For Triumph (and most of the British motorcycle industry) the season started with the Olympia show at Earls Court in October or November of the previous year and so the 12 month period during which you could buy a 1939 Triumph was actually October 1938 - September 1939.
1937 TH frames went to approximately TH 2390. 1937 TL frames went to TL 3640.
1938 TH frames went to about TH 6850. 1938 TL frames went to TL 7690
In October 1938 a new, third type of frame was introduced for the 1939 T100 with a TF (Triumph frame) prefix to differentiate it. A new, third, numbering sequence for this frame starting from the beginning again, TF 101. However, the new Tiger 100 engine continued the existing engine numbering sequence, so early Tiger 100s showed long engine numbers (around 15600) but short frame numbers.
1939 TH frames went to about TH 10175. 1939 TL frames went to TL 11642. 1939 TF frames went to TF 2255.
For 1940 on, all heavyweights in the range (now reduced to 5T, T100 and 6S) used the TF frame. The lightweight range continued more or less as before.
1940 on TF frames went to TF 4313 in 1942. TL (civilian) frames went to TL 17090.
A few 5T Speed Twins at the end of the 1939 season (with '39 engine numbers) went into TF frames. These are numbered in the 22000/23000 range
NB A 'C' suffix to the engine number denotes combination (sidecar), indicating a lower geared drive sprocket fitted. Frame numbers are stamped horizontally at the top of the headstock and again across the back top of the saddle tube.
On 14th November the factory received a direct hit and was completely destroyed, along with almost everything in it. Salvage was undertaken and by early '41 spares & parts were being produced, but it took until June 1941 for production and sales of civilian models to continue and for obvious reasons the process was disjointed. I have come across one or two '41 numbered engines but it seems Triumph dropped the date prefix on engine numbers around about engine number 31100. Some late 1940 models and nearly all 1941 models therefore don't show a date code. Probably because of the extended delays between production and sales. Engine date codes were resumed in 1945 with a '45' prefix.
Pre war Turner Triumph engine numbers went to just over 31,000 by the early 1940s. As this reflects total sales for a roughly four year period it’s interesting to compare it with the previous three year period when only about 30% of that number of sales was achieved. A tribute to the success that Edward Turner achieved with the company.
As the pre war TF frame was used for such a short time and on so few models it's possible to calculate production of the Tiger 100 quite accurately. Approximately 2300 1939 Tiger 100 models were made. Of the further 2000 1940/41 TF framed models, the majority (about 45%) were 5T Speed Twins. Another 30% were 6S models, and about a quarter (500 or so) were Tiger 100s. This means the total production of pre war Tiger 100s was something very close to 2800 machines.
Frame and engine numbers 1945-1953
The TF frame appeared post war on the 5T & T100 with some small changes. (see frames). The new 3T used the lightweight frame from the T70/T80 era and continued with the TL prefix until 1948
Most sources state the post-war machines started at TF 4500 in 1945 but I have come across post-war bikes with lower numbers. From my research pre war TF frames reached just over 4300 in 1942 and post war machines picked up from there.
There is some variation on estimates of engine/frame number runs by year for the early post-war years. However Peter Gallagher in Australia has done some good research consulting contemporary sources, including individuals and written records, and has come up with the following sequences as the most likely and I am indebted to him for allowing me to reproduce the information here.
1946 engine numbers started at 46-5T 72001
1947 engine numbers started at 47-T100 79046
1948 frames from TF 15001 to TF 25000
1948 engines from 48-T100 88782 to 102235
1949 frames from TF 25001 to TF 33615
1949 engines from 100762 to 113386. The unusual six figure numbering for 1949 acts as the date code
For 1950 Triumph introduced matching frame and engine numbers. Frame/engine numbers started with 1001N and went to 16100N. Engine numbers included a model type prefix. So 6T-1212N is a 1950 Thunderbird (used to be mine, where is it now?) The ‘N’ suffix then acts as the year code
1951 then started again but with a ‘NA’ suffix and ran from 101NA to 15807NA.
1952 continued the NA suffix and ran from 15809NA to 25000NA. Then, during the '52 model run the NA suffix was dropped at 25001, running to 32301. So 1952 is really the first year that Triumph didn't use a date code in the engine number. Apparently overseas dealers were sometimes finding they had stock showing the previous years numbers which didn’t look good.
1953. 32303 - 44134
1954. 44135 - 56699
The model 3T used the TL prefix until 1948 then changed to a TC prefix. The TR5 also used a TC prefix but a T suffix