TRANSMITTING THE PRINCIPLES OF TAIJIQUAN
An Interview with Chen Xiaowang, Fall 2005
by Luis Soldevila
The original interview is in Spanish and was translated with Google translate. A link follows the translation.
Born on October 20, 1945 in Chenjiagou, the village where Chen Wangting laid the foundation for what today we call Taiji, Chen Xiaowang is now the guardian or head of Chen style. But he has also become a tireless traveler and a great communicator entirely devoted to the dissemination of Taijiquan.
When he was eight or nine years old Chen Xiaowang started learning Lao Jia from his father and continued studying with him until he died at age 48. He then continued his training in Lao Jia with Chen Zhaopi and later Chen Zhaokui taught him Xin Jia until his death in 1972. But he wanted to reach the gongfu of his famous grandfather, Chen Fake, and to assume his role in the transmission of the style, which led him to start a personal quest for the essence of Taiji that culminated with the realization that all principles are summarized in one: if the dantian moves, the whole body follows.
In the 19th generation of Chen style, to which you belong, a group of teachers with a very high level occurs called "Four Jingang" or "Four Tigers Chenjiagou". In your opinion, what are the causes of this fact?
It's really not like that. It is a mistake to believe there is a period in which an especially high level of masters occurs. Taiji, like many other arts, is a curve that goes up and down. Now we are in the middle. Before it was the same. In certain times there have been more important teachers, better prepared, but that does not happen for a specific reason.
Whether or not there is war can influence skill levels. In wartime people have less time to practice with tranquility, to perfect the art. One can say that in generations 14, 15 and 16 of the Chen style the overall level rose and also increased the number of people practicing, largely because it was a period of peace.
And in modern China, with the arrival of Mao, it became more difficult for a period. At first the people's government did not support all the traditional martial arts. Mao died in the 1976 and then in the late 70s and during the 80s the government started to support more of the traditional martial arts. With World War II China also went through very difficult times and the level again improved with the arrival of peace. It's likely the 20 or 21st generations are better than us.
How did Chen Wangting transform the martial art of the Chen family?
Before Chen Wangting there was no written evidence about martial practices that were formerly in Chenjiagou the village of the Chen family. Chen Wangting wrote down these practices; he codified them.
Since the 1920s the Chinese government began to try to clarify the historical origins of Taijiquan. There are different versions of this, some say that its creator was Xu Shuengpin, others say it was Zhang Sanfeng, or Wang Zhongyue ... In the village of Chenjiagou it was said to be Chen Bu.
They shuffle many theories: Zhang Sanfeng, the mountains of Wudang, Taoism ... The problem is that, in any case, no documents about these people regarding taijiquan exist. There are also no documents proving anything about Chen Bu so that everything that is said is smoke.
But there is an official recognition that the first documents that refer to the work of Chen Taijiquan are Chen Wangting. Chen Wangting was a general, a soldier. Throughout his life, given his profession, he learned many very different battle techniques. It seems that the defeat of the Ming dynasty was when he created what is now known as Taijiquan. He incorporated martial skills, the principles of yin and yang, Taoist philosophy, and the theory of meridians of Chinese medicine to make the qi to flow in the body through the movements, and that is considered to be the origin of what we now call Taiji.
How do you learn to use the dantian?
The dantian is the center and supports the whole body. But if, in turn, the whole body does not support the dantian, then it is not central, it is nothing. It's like in the ancient history of China. All the provinces fought each other. There was no effective government, no one obeyed the capital, there was no dantian. When this occurs during practice, the body parts - arms, shoulders, torso, hips, knees, and ankles do not move in coordination. If all these parts are coordinated the center supports the dantian. When the dantian can follow the unified movement of the body then the body can follow the movement of dantian. The body and the dantian support each other.
It all starts in the mind. The supreme leader is the mind and the body obeys through the dantian - the center. Therefore the dantian is not worked in isolation; the whole body and mind have to work together. We must harmonize posture and movement. Once this is achieved the dantian can be located and from there start moving.
Chansigong is a characteristic feature of Chen style. What could you tell us about this?
In Taiji there are lots of forms, weapons, and applications ... It's very complicated. In the Chen style there is a saying: "There are a thousand techniques (skills), but one principle."
Chansigong, "wind the silk thread," (silk reeling) is a basic exercise where, with a simple movement, we look for the one principle that all these forms, weapons and applications follow. Once that is understood, once it is assimilated inwardly, it can be applied to a thousand or ten thousand techniques. However, if you where to try to learn a thousand different techniques then your whole life time will not be enough to master them.
Could you explain briefly about Shunchan and Nichan, what they are or how they work?
There are two forms of Chansi (silk reeling). If the little finger turns inward, qi goes from the hands and arms to the dantian. That's Shunchan. Nichan is when the thumb rotates, the qi goes from the dantian to the back and limbs. These are basic concepts, but alone they are useless. Well, the classic books say they are fundamental concepts, but in reality this is only half of it. Some say that winding (spiraling) is everything, but in reality it is not, because not everything in practice is winding. The books are not clear on this; there are many movements where the thumb and little finger are not rotating. There is also a wave motion in the dantian that involves, hips, and chest, and can be forward and backward. There is no movement to the right and left, there is no spiral. It is a different kind of movement and also Chansigong.
There are three types of movement in the Chansigong. The first is Nichan-Sunchan, the second is forward and backward, and the third is a combination of the two. In the latter movement we use diagonal axes and the dantian and by extension the whole body. It works like a sphere.
What can you tell us about breathing?
Breathing should be natural, since the basic principle of Taiji is naturalness. There are books about how and when to breathe in and out, but that is relative. The important thing is that the body move naturally. The same move can be performed at different speeds and intensities and breathing is not always the same. In the same phase of a movement sometimes you inhale and other times you exhale.
Some say that when doing fajin you must always exhale. But to do a quick series, how can you exhale each time? Furthermore, there is also a momentary breath retention in fajin, so it's not so easy to say when to inhale and when to exhale.
Generally when the movement is outward from the dantian to the fingers, you exhale. If the movement is from outside to inside, you inhale. But this is not always so simple because the whole body doesn't always do the same thing. For example, there are many movements that a hand turns outward (Nichan) and the other inward (Shunchan). In these cases you can not apply a particular rule to breath. So the important thing is to be natural, be comfortable, and that the dantian direct and the body follow.
We must find the natural adaptation of breathing movement and thus it will regulate itself. At first there may be blockages of energy and breathing because the technique is not well known and not yet assimilated. After understanding gestures gradually become more harmonious, qi flows better and suits breathing naturally. And as you advance, the more internalized the movement and the more confidence with the technique; the more natural is the breathing.
The practice should be a fifty percent thought and fifty percent flow. If you think too much the breath is often blocked because the mind always tries to control the body. On the other hand, if we are flowing heedless of the technique, we are dispersed, we are too soft. The balance between concentration and flow produce the naturalness in the movement and breathing.
You are famous, among other things, because of the power of your fajin. When should people start to fajin in practice? Should you work in any special way? How does it grow?
As before. There is only one principle: When the dantian moves, the whole body follows. If the qi flows through the body, muscles are strong. When someone says, "it is just qi" that is not true, because qi itself does not have force. It is very soft, very subtle. If the movement is not correct, the flow of qi is blocked and there is no strength. But if the muscles are not flowing qi, there is no real strength. If the qi flows, your fajin is powerful.
If there is too much effort that is considered a deviation. The less tense you are, the more relaxed, the more the qi will flow. The more the qi flows, the more force can be developed. Fajin comes from qi flowing. Qi is like the wick and muscles are the bomb. It's like a lever, if you have to move a hundred kilos using only brute force it takes a lot of strength, but if you use a lever less force is required. If you throw a punch using only arm strength there is not much power. If the whole body is united and the qi flows, there is much greater power. You have to use one hundred percent, but not more than one hundred percent.
When fajin is developed, how do you learn to apply it in a very short move?
It's like learning to ride a bicycle. When we start, we have to use very big turns otherwise we fall. Over time we can turn using increasingly smaller circles. Taiji is similar. At first we use large movements to circulate qi, it flows easier. Over the years, if the movements are correct, without deformation or deviations it can be made gradually smaller and qi flow increases.
It is said that in the first form of Chen style (Yi Lu) the waist guides the hand and in the second (Er Lu) the hand guides the waist. Can you explain how this works?
I do not like this way of explaining things. Language is not enough because these feelings are difficult to explain in words. Probably the person who wrote this knew what they meant, the meaning is correct, but not clearly expressed. Most people do not understand. An old proverb says that if you tell me something a hundred times I may not understand, but if I look a hundred times, I may understand it better. In Taiji language is not the best form of communication.
My thinking is - start at the beginning. It is easier to look at Yi Lu where the movements are slower. When it has been assimilated then you can work with speed and force as in Er Lu. When doing Yi Lu, if the fajin is exaggerated, the qi is blocked and it does not work properly. Then we use a bad energy. However, when it is working well and the qi flows within the entire body the energy is good.
Lao Jia, Xin Jia, Xiao Jia, Jia Da ... What's the Difference?
Chen Chanxing in the 14th generation created Lao Jia. Xin Jia was created by my grandfather Chen Fake in the 17th generation. Many people think that the old style, Lao Jia, is more difficult, and that the new (Xin Jia) is easier, but this is not so. Xin Jia is more complex, it is richer inside.
Xiao Jia was created in the 14th generation by Chen Youben . In Taiji it has always been said that we start with large circles, then use intermediate circles and eventually the circles get smaller. The smaller the better. Lao Jia are large circles, Xin Jia uses medium circles, and Xiao Jia has very small circles. The movement of qi is the same. The important thing is that the qi flows and that the principle is correct.
What can you tell us about your vision of push hands?
According to tradition it makes the qi circulate inside the body and allows you to learn how to use it. It is not straining. The important thing is to practice searching for and following the principle - as if two people do taiji together. Many people are interested in this when they start to learn, but if it is not done properly it is useless. It is more important to feel the flow of qi between the two people than to have two people forcefully pushing each other.
When should you start training push hands?
The traditional time to start the practice of push hands is when the qi has begun to flow. When you understand and feel these things you can begin to take advantage of push hands and you can gradually increase speed and strength just as with the form. If you have this in mind and you know the principle, if you are seeking the feel and flow of qi, then you can start learning push hands. At first we practice it very slowly, very slowly.
You have created a short form of 19 movements. Do you think the simplified forms are sufficient or once you have mastered them must the traditional forms be learned?
I made the short form because for most people it is too difficult to start learning Lao Jia. Once you are familiar with the movements, it is easier. It's like learning Mandarin. If you come to China the first time you hear someone talking in Mandarin it seems extremely difficult to understand. When you understand a few words it does not seem as difficult. The simplified form is an easier way to start, but if you want to go further, then you have to continue with traditional forms.
What about Taiji and push hands competitions? Do you think they remain true to the principles?
Nearly everything has good and bad aspects. Once upon a time, long ago, there were several years without rain. Everyone suffered because of drought and suddenly one day it rained buckets. Everyone was very happy but one man. He sold salt and had left all his goods in the open, without cover, and had lost everything. What is good for some can be bad for others. Taiji competition is the same. Undoubtedly for the promotion and dissemination of the art it is good. As for better or worse I will not go there because it would only be one point of view. In any case, I know that at the official level they are still looking for ways to continue to improve competitions. Personally I think that little by little the quality will improve.
Some say that Chen style Taijiquan is not suitable for older people, which is very complicated and too physically demanding. What do you think of this statement?
When someone says that, whether by meanness or ignorance, you can tell they do not know Chen style Taijiquan. The explanation is very simple. Taijiquan is like food, it's like cooking. The same movements can be performed in different ways depending on our health and tastes. A small child should not eat pizza. At first you have to give them soup. Later, as they grow up, they can eat spaghetti. As you grow, your stomach will be ready to eat pizza and later chili. Taijiquan is similar. In the same way you can practice like soup or chili. Is it better to eat chili than soup? Not necessarily. Both are food. Everything depends on our preparation, our tastes, and our fitness.
There are people who are always saying "this style is better than another, that the other one is not worth anything." These people have a small heart. Right now perhaps one out of ten thousand people practice Taijiquan. The rest of the people do not know what the benefits are. We should strive so that in ten years it will be one thousand people in ten thousand practice taijiquan. We should encourage people to practice taijiquan. To discredit other styles to promote ours is misusing our energy. "This style is better than this, that is not good for the elderly ...". We must think about the people who practice Taijiquan, not just us. It's not good to speak ill of other martial arts to encourage people to study another type. We should try to convey the principle of Taijiquan, to teach the correct practice, then let everyone choose the path that seems most appropriate to them.