Transcript of interview with Josiah Suthan (conducted by Amanda Lee), 7 February 2017, 7.30 pm, Skype.
Josiah is a 28-year old male Tamil Indian Singaporean who is a full-time musician. Josiah listens to English pop rock music by Bruno Mars, Jessie J, Creed, and Audioslave. He thinks that there is a connection as pop music is for the masses and generally covers very broad-based subjects like love and family issues. Josiah used to listen to Western classical music as he studied in LASALLE and had to work with musicians who played different genres from him. He thinks that classical music is global culture that Singapore has picked up. Josiah thinks that Singaporeans associate classical music with elitism. Josiah does not listen to Indian pop music but hears it at home as his father is an avid fan of Bollywood movies. He does not really listen to it as he grew up listening to Western pop music and because his family is Christian, they are generally less likely to listen to Indian classical music unlike their Indian counterparts who are Hindu. Josiah listens to traditional Indian music from time to time. He thinks that it is the zenith of music and respects it deeply. However, he thinks that Indian pop music would represent him best since it plays around with fusion music and he is someone who likes mixing music and genres together. Josiah does not listen to Chinese pop music but has played a few gigs with a Chinese pop artiste. Josiah does not go out of his way to listen to traditional Chinese music, but would sometimes watch the Chinese opera at community centers to try to understand it. He thinks that this music should be preserved as it is important to know where one has come from and where to go from there. Josiah is not sure if there is a cultural connection of Chinese Singaporeans with mainland China as he is sure that somewhere along the way, Singaporeans would have decided to change the music. Josiah liked Chinese crossover music as they used the Chinese instruments but kept it fresh by using contemporary pop songs by Adele. Josiah has heard of experimental Chinese music and he enjoyed the extract. He thought that the music was quite neo-classical and it had a lot of Western influence. He thinks that while experimental Chinese music is global and connects with the experimental music of the West, it does not however connect with the masses. Josiah does not think that there is a Singaporean musical style as Singaporeans try too hard to sound like Western musicians. He thinks that there is a musical style in some songs in which local musicians make local references and use Singlish. He thinks that Singlish comedy songs can represent Singapore if the songs were done in a way whereby Westerners could understand them. Josiah thinks that one of the best National Day parades he has seen was when they drew on traditional methods of singing and instrument-playing, but made it modern and accessible. Josiah first got interested in music when he played the drums in church and realized he had a knack for it. He eventually went on to study at LASALLE and started playing in shows. Josiah plays for original bands such as Bloco Singapura, and Tim De Cotta & The Warriors, as well as for cover bands such as The Sopranos and The Hashtags. Josiah thinks that it is important to play both original and cover music. He enjoys playing original music as he finds that it is more fun since he can improvise and play around with the arrangement. Josiah thinks that cover songs are important as people want to listen to foreign music as well. Josiah finds that the band has to work to find opportunities to perform by busking for free, handing out name cards, and putting their name and music out there in the hopes that someone contacts them to play for festivals and events. Josiah’s bands – Bloco Singapura and Tim De Cotta & The Warriors – were both sponsored by the National Arts Council. He thinks that the NAC can further support bands by realizing that needing to profit from the arts will not necessarily work as the arts was not meant to make money. Josiah thinks that the NAC could build a dedicated arts center with performance spaces and galleries so that musicians and the public can access them. One of Josiah’s memorable experiences was when he worked with four special needs schools to put up a musical and taught the students how to play the Brazilian percussion. He thought that it was the scariest thing that he had ever done, but felt that it was something he would do again as he was touched by the students and their effort in putting up the musical.
“Bruno Mars generally is good. Er, there are few rock guys but the older ones I guess like Creed or – you know ... Audioslave. But these – these aren’t really pop anymore, I think. Er, generally the [contemporary] pop – Jessie J is good, er, can’t think of any other pop guys that I really listen to.”
“That’s a common thread that runs – that everyone will – will connect to [English pop] I guess. So if you’re singing about – you know – love or finding a girlfriend or boyfriend or – or maybe you got – you know, family issues or something? There might – I’m sure the message is – is – is a connected one. And that generally is what pop is, right?”
“Even something like Taylor Swift’s what, er, We Are Never Getting Back [Together] (2012) – whatever or some song like that, where she’s talking about – you know – like sort of – you know, female empowerment, and getting out of a bad relationship, I’m sure that connects with anyone. You know, Singaporeans or whatever. So I’m sure there is a connection, ya.”
“There are times when I do listen to classical music but, er, it’s – it was more because I came from LASALLE [College of the Arts] so we had different streams of – of musicians. You know the classical, pop, jazz, and the world guys. So in order to work with other musicians, we would have to listen or – you know – they would play a certain thing.”
“Classical music has this atas thing in Singapore. It’s seen as this elitist thing, you know. And – and so – so I think that Singaporeans – we want to feel a bit more elitist. So maybe we think that classical music is that. So that’s why we teach our kids that, you know, everyone has a Grade Eight.”
“My dad’s an avid fan of the – the [Bollywood] movies so I guess I listen to them when he’s watching TV – you know – when he’s watching his – his stuff. I do hear it, but not on a – you know – I – I don’t – the only song I know is Tere Bina (2006). And that’s it, you know. And I don’t even know what movie that’s from. But other than that I’m not – I’m well-versed in the Indian pop thing.”
“I grew up more – if anything because of Internet, I started listening to more African American and – and British, UK, music or whatever you call it. So, um, I think that’s why for me, and – and especially because my family’s Christian as well. So, um, I feel that the – the – the music is very linked to the – the religion. So if you’re – you’re Hindu, you would listen to more Indian classical or – or you generally be more – you know – Indian-influenced as it were.”
“I still hold on to the fact that classical music is the zenith right. To me, Indian music – Indian classical music is like ten times that – that, you know. The intricacies and – and the amount of – of technique – technicality you need for Indian classical music is, er, beyond what I can ever achieve. But, um, I do listen to one or two – you know – random stuff on YouTube.”
“I don’t listen to it but I’ve been playing a few Mando gigs with this artiste called Tay Kewei. Singapore – one of Singapore’s premier Mando artiste and all that. So actually I don’t listen to it, but I’ve been forced to listen to it by work. So I play percussions for her, so I’ve had to learn a bit of the – the Mando pop thing.”
“There were times where I’ve sat and, er, you know – sometimes they have those [community centers] where they have traditional Chinese opera sort of things. Ya, as a musician of course I get interested and stand there for about fifteen, twenty minutes sometimes. Just try and listen to it, and try and understand it. But again, I don’t go out of my way and like – you know – or find Chinese music or Chinese traditional music per se.”
“And this is a problem with globalization. You start getting this melting pot that dilutes where we come from, you know. I mean, I’m not – I’m not very Indian myself, but I feel in Singapore, yes, we need to preserve the Singapore Indian culture, or the Singaporean Malay, or the Singaporean Chinese culture.”
“I don’t think enough is being done to preserve that because we don’t see young people doing the traditional stuff as much anymore. Maybe only on the Malay side, maybe. You know. The Indian side, er, you know I think the religion is sort of helping to keep it up a bit. You know, the Chinese one – I don’t know. I – I – maybe because I don’t have friends who do it as well.”
“[Traditional Chinese music] with mainland China? Er, wow, I’ve no – I – I – [be]cause I don’t know what happens – I don’t know mainland Chinese music. So I – I don’t know if there is a connection. Maybe there is? There could be. But, er, I’m sure somewhere along the way, Singaporeans changed a few things.”
“I mean the general mix of using the old instruments and then – you know – keeping it fresh with something new like Adele [in Chinese crossover music]. So – you know I – I – I – I like when people do that, when they use old stuff. Er, the – the – the – the Chinese player plays with the Chinese, er, the Chinese artiste that I play with.”
“So this is [Chinese crossover music] – is sort of familiar because I’ve played with a guzheng. Because of her – she brought in a guzheng player, so I was playing with the guzheng and the erhu at the same time, so – ya. I mean I’m always up for – you know – bringing the traditionals back to a certain degree.”
“[Experimental Chinese music] was very nice. I mean – you know – it’s nice to see all the different instruments. I’ve never seen some of them before. Ya. But it’s very – it’s very neo-classical almost. Like it’s got a lot of, er, er, Western influence sort of I would think. Ya. That’s experimental. The other band that I know is not like this.”
“I don’t know how to explain it, but like experimental music in general is very global. So it’s just the sound source you’re using. So I – I think – you know, I think – I think it does connect with the – the – the experimental music of the West. But the only problem is whether the masses will understand or appreciate something like this, you know.”
“I think Singaporeans try too hard sometimes. Because we are so influenced by the West. We try to sound Western. You know. Er, okay, um, I think we try very hard to sound like the West with – with – you know with accents, the way we say things, and, er, as well with the kind of sounds we use. Er, so, er, I – I don’t really think that I can hear a difference.”
“I think the language that we use, the kind of things that we reference. Ya, they might be if you reference the MRT or – you know – we reference the [People’s Action Party] or something like then – you know, ya, then it’s Singaporean. I think it’s the – the lyrics that make a difference for us now. But musically I – I – you know, I can’t really say that we have a style per se of our own.”
“I think that the only two things that are really Singaporean are our food culture and Singlish, you know. So I think if [Singlish comedy songs were] done right, like where – where it’s not too Singlish, where it’s so Singlish that Westerners don’t understand what we’re talking about anymore. But if it’s done in a way where even Westerners could understand, “Oh, this is Singlish?” Then you know, I think I’m all up for Singaporean comedy shows, or comedy songs, or – or Singlish, you know, as a – as a message for Singapore, you know.”
“I’ve been doing National Day with Bloco [Singapura] from like 2007 to 2014. So I really got to see the innings and outings of National Day. And I feel that sometimes – only 2009, I feel, [2009] or [2010] – and – ya, I think [2009] or [2010]. I can’t remember, the one that Ivan Heng was doing as the creative director. Er, I felt that that was probably our best NDP in terms of diversity and showing off the diverse cultures that we have. Er, where they – they tried to modernize a lot of traditional stuff.”
“I feel that the National Day songs especially of the last maybe five years, er, I feel haven’t done enough to me, er, to really encompass that Singaporean feel, I guess, or that Singaporean message. But I don’t blame it because we don’t have a message of our own to say. We don’t really have a culture, you know. An intrinsic culture, lah.”
“Back in the day when we had CDs that we would make of ourselves in illegal manners, er, you know, I had – the song that I was listening to was In My Place (2002) by Coldplay. And it started off with this drum intro. And some – somehow I thought about it and went, “Oh, I think I could do that”. And because of that I started playing in church because I just wanted to play drums. I – I had a natural knack for it.”
“And with drums again – with the LASALLE guys – because everyone needed a drummer and because I wanted to play everything and I liked everything at that point, er, ya, I – I – I got called to play many different gigs. Jazz, reggae, funk, pop, rock, the list goes on and on. Er, so – you know, I think that’s how it started.”
“And – and for me I play predominantly drums and percussion. Er, in my own time – in my bedroom I guess, I play guitar and piano as well. And – and I try to play like – you know – a saxophone or two. You know, trying to – you know – just trying to learn something new.”
“I mean like for the last – probably three or four years, you know. Er, it has been a passionless life as it were. Except – as weird as that sounds, musicians can run out of passion. Er, it has cost me a relationship so you’ve caught me at a weird time when now I’m striving to find why I’m doing it. So I wish I had an answer to tell you.”
“There was a quote that said “Music is good, the music business isn’t.” Er, I forgot who said it, but once music becomes a job, sometimes you do have bad days. And unfortunately because of this – you know, these politics and trying to make ends meet and doing things that you don’t really wanna do, like teaching or whatever. Like for me, I generally don’t want to teach but – you know – financially, it is sustainability, and so I have to teach.”
“But the truth is – at the end of the day, I couldn’t think of anything else I would be able to do – you know – in my life. I – I know that when I’m on stage and when I do play, er, I feel at home, you know. That is my – my peace I guess. You know no matter all the problems and whatever, when I’m on stage, I feel at one with the universe or whatever. You know, it feels good and – and I guess that’s why I’m still playing after thirteen years.”
“You have to call people for a random gig, you know, like a wedding or something. To me, I consider that a band as well. Because you have – you have to respect everyone in the band, you know. It’s not just touch and go thing. I try to maintain that, “Okay, even though we’re doing this for one night only, we are still a band.” And – and I take it to that respect and I’ve done at least a hundred plus bands.”
“At that time I think there was only Wicked Aura who was like at thirteen or twenty. Er, my maestro had a vision to go for eighty, hundred, two hundred. So, er, he formed us because he wanted to play authentic, traditional Brazilian music, er, but in the numbers that they are played in Brazil. In Brazil, they are played in like numbers of like two to four hundred drummers for one group.”
“I feel that both [cover bands and original bands] are equally important, you know. You – you need a scene that is balanced where the original music is respected and – and sought after. Where the cover music is also sought after and respected, you know. Where people want to listen to foreign music, you know. I mean, American or whatever. They want to listen to that so they will go to that scene or – or that side of the country. And if – if they wanted original music which we have a lot of, they would come over.”
“I would say that original music for me in my heart is more fun to play because cover band sometimes they stick to the MP3 too much, you know. And I’m the kind of musician who doesn’t like to be, “Oh, play exactly as the CD.” You know. I – I don’t like to do that. So for me originals is nicer [be]cause I can make up my own parts. I can – you know – play around with the arrangement from time to time.”
“With Novo, we do try to ... how do I say this, we do try to write songs where people can just dance and just be – do not – do not think too much. Do not be too – you know – stiff as Singaporeans are. We don’t know how to have a good time. So sometimes the songs that we write over there are about – you know – just getting up and dancing and stuff like that.”
“For my band, um, it’s – it’s a lot of, er, busking that – when we had to start, we had to busk for free. And then we handed out name cards, clients, or corporate clients would see us and go, “Eh, you know, maybe I would like these people to play at my [dinner and dance], or, er, er, er, some function opening, or some – you know – building opening, or something like that.” And that it just spreads from there, the word of mouth thing.”
“[Tim De Cotta] tries to target the locally – you know – made ones. And most of them are his friends, and stuff like that. So – you know – we try – or he tries to get – he tries to get – he tries to play at the local place as well so that – you know – you bring business both ways. You bring music as well, and you also bring people to come and eat at – you know – at whatever establishments we play at.”
“For both Bloco and for, er, what’s it called – for Tim, ya, ya, we – we – we are and were, er, sponsored by NAC. For Bloco it was a travel grant when, er, Coburg Samba Festival in Germany, they invited us over to represent Singapore. We were the first Singaporeans to represent Singapore, er, in that festival. So NAC sponsored a bit of money for the – the – the travel cost.”
“You know for NAC, you know, I’ve heard things and I’ve had experience where they have just been subpar in the way they choose who gets the grant. I think generally getting better, you know. And, er, they do good things like these – these little things and stuff. And they do support the right ones. But, er, sometimes the – the – what’s it called – the red tape to get something is just so hard. And then – you know – you hear stories of my friends who just don’t get selected for a two thousand dollar fund.”
“I feel that NAC, er, because I understand that – you know – they cannot give free money. Like they need to see something back. I get that. Er, but the arts was never about money, it was never about making money. Um, other countries have already said this many times, Germany says this all the time, New Zealand says this. Where – you know where you – you have to sacrifice money in order for arts. Because arts is not meant to make money. And in Singapore I feel that we’re too calculative.”
“So, um, one of my ideas that I wanted to pitch but I gave up on it was for NAC to build an arts center that is – and I know they already have something like this. But a really, really dedicated arts center for all the arts. You know, like dance, you have performance spaces, and you don’t charge the musicians too much money to rent out the space for gigs, you know.”
“You know, so maybe some – some place that is more dedicated where you have maybe like – you know – ten performance spaces for the dance or the arts, you have galleries for them. You have, er, places where – you know – you can do courses. You can teach stuff. Um, but run by NAC so money-wise, the – they make sure they take care of that. Financially they make sure that everything works. But to be a little more accessible to people so that people can come in and maybe do free shows, you know.”
“So – but you have to because you’re trying to – you know –what you call that, pay for the backline, and pay for the lighting, and pay for all that. So maybe if NAC could invest in a place where they solely had control of it, you know that might – might help encourage more people to either pick up on the arts as a hobby, or come and watch – come and enjoy arts as a – you know – as a – as a show or something like that, you know.”
“But I definitely think that there is pockets of band cultures. You know, you have the underground scene, you have the Mando guys – the Chinese guys doing their thing, the Malay guys doing their thing. You have the Indian – you know – bands that are – are sort of just – you know – doing their own little thing. But I don’t think it is being supported in the mainstream level. So you don’t really see it as a – as a consumer or – you know. So, um, there – there are definitely band cultures but not one – you know – general one.”
“One of it was NDP and I think it was 2010. I think it was [20]10 where you stood in front of, er, the floating platform. And I think it’s what – 38, 000, 28,000 people, er, and you – you know – you play for that. And then – you know – you heard the crowd singing along or cheering. That was one [memorable experience].”
“NDP 2014, I was in charge of a hundred and fifty people. This was for Bloco. And my maestro decided to give me the – the lead. And he said, “Okay, you know what, it’s your job to go and settle everything”. So for 2014 NDP, I was in charge of it and, er, you know, to be part of it and to be sitting with the ex-co and everything, that – that went very well.”
“But there are definitely a lot of shows where even on a Saturday or a Sunday where I’m doing my regular nights, where are feel there are good shows, you know. Whether or not there were people dancing or not – you know – there are definitely a lot of days where I definitely go, “That was a good show and I’m proud of that,” you know. I try to maintain – you know – I try to be proud of what – you know – of what I do as much as I can, lah.”
“I just learn how – there are certain people that I play with that always remind me to have fun. And – and to always be in the moment. And I find that’s very hard to do sometimes, because you’re thinking about – you know – I’ve got no money this month or is this working or whatever.”
“I taught about four special needs schools and, er, the one that I really remember was Rainbow Centre. Because it probably the hardest one that I’ve ever done. And learning how to deal with children who have special needs, er, you know, patience and, er, having an honest heart about it. Because the kids – no matter what their special needs – they can see right through you.”
“I think you’re either built for teaching, or you’re built for playing. You know. I feel that at this time of my life, I’m a player. Like a play more than I – I play better than I teach. You know, I find that the pedagogy in itself is a different – it’s a whole new – whole other ballgame. So for me, the experience was scary because – again, I’m not very good with kids as it was – as it is. And then to teach special needs kids. Er, it was the scariest thing I ever did.”
“I would do [teach] again because the kids – when – when it was all done, the kids showed love and true appreciation, and that brings tears to your eyes – you know – seeing – you know – these kids who certain people would say, “Oh, they can never play drums, they can never be in a musical, they are not normal kids, you know. These guys cannot do anything.” And to actually see them perform, and to be onstage, and to have fun, when you see all of that, your work just – you know – it validates what you’ve been doing.”
“The only thing I will say is that at this point our culture, er, as Singaporeans it’s being, um, threatened I feel. I – I don’t think – I think globalization is good, but the bad things of it is because we’ve lost ourselves. And I think, er, as – as Singaporeans, I really feel that projects like this are good where – where it sort of helps people remember and to see, you know. So I – I think for – for each and every one of us, I think we have to strive to – to be more proud of being Singaporean.”
“I feel that that is what we’re lacking – you know – for all our advances and achievements as a country, I think we’re lacking that one simple thing. That we’re not really proud to be Singaporean. And I feel that that will be our downfall – if anything – later on, lah. So I feel that these – these are good projects I’m – I’m happy to be a part of it lah, you know. Ya. So good on you and thanks for doing this.”
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