Interview with BWG member Diane Sismour
Diane's note: Conferences provide networking for many of my interviewees, but this time, serendipity intervened. Forty-five years ago, our interviewee lived not far from the horse farm where I gave riding lessons and she learned to ride. Life moves on and so did we—she to Georgia and me, five minutes away from the ranch in Kempton, Pennsylvania. Last Year Val popped into my life again unknowingly by booking a stay in my B and B Tiny House (bit.ly/LakesideTinyHouse). The moment we saw each other, recognition gonged both of us!I am pleased to introduce the Bethlehem Writers Roundtable (BWR) readers to Val M. Mathews, Acquisitions Editor at The Wild Rose Press, and Founder of The Exit 271 Studio (www.exit271.com), an editing and coaching service for writers who need love, support, and a kick in the pants.
Bethlehem Writers Group: Val, it’s a pleasure to introduce you to our readers. You are always on the go, helping an author, or writing. Please describe a day in your busy schedule.
Val Mathews: Thanks for having me, Diane. I’m grateful for the opportunity to chat and share my experiences with other writers.
It’s hard to describe my busy day because it changes depending on how many projects I’m working on, the kinds of projects (freelance, publisher, or coaching), what kinds of writers, how burned out I get. Editor burnout is a real thing. When I’m burned out, I take a day or two or three and do my own thing—hiking, boogie boarding, Netflix binge-watching, play with coding (I’m learning Swift and JavaScript right now).
A typical day is usually six or seven hours of editing, but it can be as long as twelve. I am known for pulling all-nighters to get a freelance editing project done because I have another one in the pipeline. Every week, I try to do a little social media engagement. I’ll make something cool in Adobe Spark or InDesign with a catchy bit of writing advice and share it with the world. My social media engagement comes in waves; I'm in a lull right now. Twitter can quickly suck you in and then no writing or editing gets done. Every month, I’m usually juggling two or three coaching clients, one or two developmental evaluations, one or two line or copyedits, and one or two clients who are sending their manuscripts a few chapters at a time. I usually reserve Mondays catching up with The Wild Rose Press submissions. It’s all fiction or memoir work, but I’m adding on nonfiction now. I recently started freelance editorial work for the University of Georgia. Nice change of pace!
I prefer editing in the wee hours between 11:00 pm and 5:00 am. My house is quiet. The phone isn’t buzzing. No new emails. No new urgent text messages with an author emergency (or kid emergency). However, I’m trying to keep normal hours—trying—and weave in time for my own writing. However, finding time for my own writing is a schedule challenge because I'm hop-jump-and-skipping with editorial projects, workshops, conferences, judging writing contests, plus family stuff, house stuff, and trying to stay fit and get sunshine. Staying fit and getting sunshine is sometimes difficult. Some weeks I feel like my chair is part of my backbone. When I’m in the middle of a client’s manuscript, I just can’t stop. I’m committed and completely immersed. The process can consume me. I take breaks and hike when I run up against a tricky plot hole or a craft issue. I work it out as I walk. After a few twelve-hour days or all-nighters, I am often burnt out and have to recharge.
All-nighters! Twelve-hour editing fests! Why would anyone want to be an editor, especially a developmental editor? Sounds crazy, right? Well, here’s the thing, you have to love complicated mind puzzles. As I said, when I get burned out from a string of freelance work, I take off. That’s the beauty of being my own boss. Even with The Wild Rose Press, I am an independent contractor. Most small presses and publishers can’t afford salaried editors. Even big publishing houses hire freelancers. At The Wild Rose Press, I get paid royalties just like an agent, so you better believe I’m invested in your story. If you don’t make money, then I don’t make money. We’re on this crazy train together.
BWG: How did you end up in the writing business?
VM: By accident. I was coding and designing websites while in graduate school getting my Master of Arts in Professional Writing. I volunteered for the SurfCoaches, a surfing company in Costa Rica, and created a digital magazine and website for them. That led me into creating a digital literary magazine for the Georgia Writers Association. I ended up being really good at fixing red-hot messes and fine-tuning stories. One of the accepted short-story authors asked me to edit her full manuscript. Then another asked and another. They referred me to their writer friends. Before I knew it, I was working with a writer every month while still in grad school. It spread by word of mouth. Writers asked me to come and talk at their writer groups, and I got even more clients. Then writer conferences. I’m booked two months or more in advanced now. I have several writers that have me on a monthly retainer. This past year I sent out letters of introductions to a few university presses and small traditional publishers. I fell in with The Wild Rose Press and got on the developmental editor list with the University of Georgia. Every month, I ask myself, “Is this real? Can I do it again next month?” And I always do. My mom would say, “I told you so.”
I owe it all to my mom—Ruth Mathews from the old Mathews Orchards in Kempton, PA. Part of our old land is now Scholl’s Orchards. Before I could even read or write, my mom sat me at the kitchen table in our two-hundred-year-old Pennsylvania Dutch, stone farmhouse and had me dictate my stories. She wrote them down, read them back to me, and made me edit them orally. My grandmom Mathews kept feeding me books. She was a big reader. My grandma Adams was a prolific poet. My great grandmother Rives, too. I come from a long line of writers on my mom’s side. The most famous is Princess Amélie Rives Troubetzkoy who wrote The Quick or the Dead? and World’s End. My mom assumed that my sister, Angie, and I would be writers. Angie’s first story was published when she was in third grade. I was encouraged to write poetry. My first poem was published in some anthology when I was in fourth grade.
By high school, I starting pushing back and wanting to take my own path. I wrote and edited lyrics for local bands, including my brother Pete. When college came around, I wanted to major in Biology. My mother bucked. She said, “But you can’t; you're a girl!" She convinced me to major in English at Loyola University in New Orleans. Well, eventually I rebelled (the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree), and I secretly enrolled in college for aeronautical science to become a commercial pilot like my father. I didn’t tell my mom until after my first solo! I flew turboprops and Lear Jets for a little while, and then life took unexpected twists and turns. I've been an FAA Certified Flight Instructor for almost three decades now. Being a jet pilot is a bonus in the editing world. Aspiring authors often mention that my flying past was one of the deciding factors that made them pick up the phone and ask about my editorial services. And they always sign on. My mom was right. She knew I had a knack for writing and editing. Don’t you hate it when your mother is always right? LOL.
BWG: Please explain what role an acquisition’s editor plays at The Wild Rose Press.
VM: I wear many hats! Coach, cheerleader, therapist, developmental editor, copyeditor, acquisition editor, back-cover blurb writer/editor, and rejection committee member. Typically, a senior editor or our editor in chief will send me a potential new author’s submission package, which consists of the query letter and the first five pages. I also receive submissions from writers I met at workshops and conferences. The first thing I do is read the first five pages. Often, I can tell on page one if it’s going to be a rejection. Cold hard truth. If the opening doesn’t pop off the page, we aren’t going to wait until page three hundred to see if anything happens. Once, I had a freelance client tell me, “But it gets good on page one hundred.” Readers read for the joy and thrill of it. We want that joy and thrill on page one, page two, page three, and every page thereafter. To get your foot in the door with an acquisition editor, rock the house down on the first page. It doesn’t have to be exploding bombs, car chases, shooting matches, and murder mayhem on page one, but it does need to hook us immediately and keep hooking us on every page. The hook can be a promise of future conflict, subtle micro-tension, or a strong character voice. One of those three things (preferably all three) will prompt me to immediately send an email to the author and ask for a partial or full manuscript. I might skim the pitch part of the query at this point. Some editors always read the query first and only ask for more pages based on the pitch. However, more than once I’ve been thrilled by an amazing pitch and strong synopsis only to be disappointed when reading the manuscript. I think sometimes authors hire a professional query and synopsis writer. I suggest writing it yourself. You have to know your story cold. When writers struggle to put the gist of their stories into a strong pitch paragraph or break the story down into a tight synopsis, then I bet there is a good chance their manuscripts have plot holes or too many storylines or too many characters. Just my two feathers. I’m sure there are exceptions.
Once I find a manuscript that I love and want to make an offer to the author, I run it by the reading panel for their input. Depending on their positive reviews, I will send a Request for Contract to my senior editor. If she approves, she sends it through, and an offer is made. Then the fun begins! The first thing I make new authors do is to hash out a draft of their back-cover blurb. Next, I get them comfortable in promoting themselves as an author by introducing them to the writing communities on Twitter. My goal is to help them get one thousand followers in thirty days. I get them thinking about a website and marketing on day one. It’s a must! We can’t just sit in our writing rooms or coffee shops and write; all writers must brand and promote themselves. In my first phone conversation with the authors, I will tell them the biggest plot holes they need to fix pronto. Now we are not talking about major structural damage here. A manuscript that gets this far has minor plot holes or character arc problems compared to manuscripts that were rejected. There’s usually a round or two of edits (line edit and copyedit) before it leaves my hands and is sent to production. Just like writing, editing is a process. Got to trust the process. Deep breathing helps.
BWG: In the past, The Wild Rose Press accepted manuscripts heavy in the romance genre. Now they acquire novels in most genres, as well as short stories and poetry. How has this shift in business strategy changed the company?
VM: The Wild Rose Press, Inc. has been around for thirteen years now. They’ve always been a traditional, royalty-paying publisher and remain that way today. TWRP, as it’s affectionately known, has held the distinction of Best Publisher of the Year for eleven of the thirteen years by an independent poll of readers and writers. This year one of our authors got an exclusive Amazon movie deal! It’s not the first time Hollywood has come calling. We are beyond elated! You can read about it here: thewildrosepress.blogspot.com/2019/06/twrp-goes-to-movies.html. I was drawn to The Wild Rose Press because of the diversity of its lines, its positive and stable position in the publishing world, and the freedom it offered me. I’m not a nine-to-five, office kind of girl. I like to work odd hours, pull crazy shifts, skip off to the beach when I’m burnt out, run my freelance editing business, and take care of my family without asking permission to take time off. I haven’t had a nine-to-five job since I was twenty-five years old. I’ve been welcomed with open arms at The Wild Rose Press. Changes are afoot, and I’m thrilled to be part of it during this evolving and exciting time.
BWG: Is there anything new on the horizon for Wild Rose Press you would like to share?
VM: So, happy you asked! Yes, there is! With the ever-changing publishing industry, this year we have worked hard to try to have options for all writers in all areas. For example, we have opened up an Assisted Publishing Department. This department, which offers a variety of packages, is designed to help the author who wants to be “self-pubbed” but needs help with areas such as cover art, or distribution, or editing but doesn’t want to be contracted with a publisher. We will find them a cover artist, suggest various freelance editors (including me!), and also package and distribute their eBook and print book when it's ready to go. In addition to this, we are also offering more intensive guidance, coaching, and book packaging for authors under The Write Advice (www.thewriteadvice.com), which I’m involved with and excited to be helping.
BWG: You are working on a novel of your own. Do you wait to edit after the first draft, or do you edit as you write; and, how does this help your process?
VM: Most advice states to just write, bleed on the page, bang out that first bad draft. For a lot of writers, that is probably what they need to do. Just beware, it often creates drafts that are red-hot messes. That’s okay if you are prepared to roll up your sleeves and do the hard work of revision, and sometimes that may mean ditching the whole second half of your novel. Be prepared to kill a lot of darlings. It takes a special kind of person to look at a red-hot mess and see the path through it. That’s when developmental editors come in handy.
For me, I work best with a two-steps-forward-and-one-step-back kind of approach. When I finally sit down to write, I have a good idea of the next chapter because I worked it out on one of my walks in the woods or on the beach. But I stay open to what might surprise me when fingers meet keyboard. I start by rereading the last several chapters and revising at least the last one. The process of revision sets me up to flow easily into writing the next chapter or two. So, it’s a back and forth revision process. I prefer the term revision over editing. A manuscript is always a work-in-progress and revision seems a more fitting term. Actually, playing is a better term! I always tell my clients and authors to “play with it” and, most importantly, have fun doing it. I know some writers that have been writing the first few chapters for decades—literally decades! For those writers, my advice is to lock yourself in a room and write a bad first draft. According to Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones, their manager locked him and Jagger in a kitchen and said, “Don’t come out without a song.” Jagger tells a different story, but I prefer Keith’s version. It’s far more interesting.
Often as I write a new chapter, something surprises me—an unexpected plot twist or character action—and I have to go back to the beginning and make sure everything is set up. At that point, I have to tweak all the chapters and weave in the setup and promise of future conflict all the way through. Unfortunately, I have very little time to write anymore. Most of us are in the same boat. It takes a fierce commitment. I take writer holidays—sometimes just a day or two and sometimes a whole week. I recently started working with a mentor/editor out of London. It’s forcing me to schedule a time for revising my own work to meet his deadlines. I missed last week’s deadline! My clients come first.
BWG: What genres do you enjoy reading most, and who are some of your favorite authors?
VM: I’ll read anything that hooks me on page one. I can’t say I prefer one genre over another. My favorite fiction authors are Sherman Alexie, Ray Bradbury, Cormac McCarthy, Neil Gaiman, Sue Monk Kidd, Shirley Jackson just to name a few. My favorite nonfiction writers are the Made to Stick authors, Chip and Dan Heath. My favorite poets are Sherman Alexie, Denise Sweet, and Joy Harjo. Over a decade ago my poetry mentor, Anjie Kohan, turned me on to Joy Harjo and Denise Sweet. She sent me Harjo’s poem “She Had Some Horses” and Denise Sweet’s poem “My Good Fortune,” which was written in response to Harjo’s poem. In response to both of those poems, I penned “We Brought Our Mothers,” and it was published in The Story around 2006. This year, Harjo was named U.S. poet laureate (joyharjo.com/). She’s the first Native American (Muscogee Creek Nation) to be given the honor. Even though the position is not a political one, I feel giving Harjo the honor makes a big statement. Our world is in need of some healing.
BWG: The Exit 271 Studio is an editorial service that provides coaching, developmental evaluations, and line editing. What is the difference between coaching and developmental editing?
VM: Good question. The labels for the types of editing is a confusing subject for many people. It’s partly because editors and writers often use the various terms interchangeably. It’s also partly because editing is fluid—one level of editing flows back and forth into the levels on either side. For instance, a light copyedit moves forward into proofreading territory or a heavy copyedit edges backward into a developmental edit. It’s easy for an editor, if they aren’t careful, to turn a heavy copyedit into a developmental edit. We call it scope creep. It’s becoming a big problem as the self-publishing industry grows and writers are seeking out their own editors. An indie writer hires an editor for a copyedit, but as the editor gets deeper into the story, the developmental problems become obvious. I strongly urge writers to get some kind of developmental evaluation from an editor that does that deep-in-the-trenches kind of work (hint, hint).
So back to your question about the difference between coaching and developmental editing. Let me give some examples. When someone comes to me with just a few chapters and a rough idea or outline but is unsure or unable to move forward, then they may need coaching to keep them on the right track. Coaching is a deep-dive writing class but one-on-one. It gets most writers to their goal of a strong and solid draft faster than they could do it on their own. It can save a writer months if not years. When I coach a writer, we set goals for each month and a time frame for completion of the first strong draft. I also do coaching for people who already have a draft, if they ask. Some people want a little extra guidance through the revision process after they receive a developmental or line edit from me. Coaching involves a set number of pages for the author to write and/or revise a month, my editorial notes (suggestions, comments, examples) on those pages, training materials, a one-hour phone call a month, and unlimited text and email access to me. As you know, writing a novel—especially a good novel—is a daunting task. Coaching helps clear away the big debris on the road. It gets them ready for the editorial stage.
If a writer comes to me with a first draft (or second or third) already completed, then usually the most practical step is a developmental edit. I prefer to call it a developmental evaluation. The developmental evaluation looks at major structural or craft issues that if aren’t addressed, then no amount of copyediting is going to fix the manuscript. Most writers are unaware of the holes in their own stories because they know it so well. Many writers are just so eager to put their work out there that they rush ahead—quick copyedit, self-publish, done. It’s a shame because there are great ideas out there that are not being given the chance to grow and become what they are meant to be.
Acquisition editors can tell on the first page or two if a manuscript is worth requesting a partial or full. Once we get a partial manuscript or full manuscript, the plot holes or character-arc problems often show up at about the quarter way mark. However, the biggest manuscript-killer spot is midway. You may be surprised by how many stories become different stories halfway through or how many stories have the main protagonist drop out of the story in the middle or stare out the train window or take a shower to clear his head and stare out the window some more. Middles that have characters doing a lot of sleeping, dreaming, starring, taking showers, driving, and thinking reveal that the author is unsure of what they want the character to do. The next big manuscript-killer spot is the final climax. A fantastic story can all fall apart here, usually because the main protagonist doesn’t act like a main protagonist. For instance, if a strong female lead is rescued by the man in the end, then she is not maintaining her role as a main protagonist. I see lots of those. My point is, all these manuscript-killers could have been avoided with a good developmental evaluation that looks at the storyline, plot structure, character arc, pacing, and major craft issues.
BWG: How does it feel to be on the other side of the Pitch table at conferences?
VM: Love this question! Thanks for asking. I have to go further back in time to when I was an editor for literary magazines. Reading cover letters and first pages from writers submitting short stories, poetry, and articles on writing changed my perception profoundly. The mysterious world of scary editors and menacing publishing houses vanished. A veil was lifted, and guess who was on the other side? Me! Not so dark and scary anymore. With each submission to the literary magazine, the pain, insecurities, and desperation of authors bled through and onto my computer screen. They were so careful how they addressed me, so self-conscious about every word in their queries. It broke my heart! Sure, there were a few who were outrageously arrogant. But I believe that’s just how they hide that inner writer who is terrified of rejection and the scary editor. But heck, it’s just me! For heaven’s sakes, I was raised on a farm in Pennsylvania Dutch country. I rode a stubborn appaloosa named Missy, rolled a John Deer tractor down a hill, fished bass out of Kistlers Creek (sometimes out of season). Nothing scary here—just an orchard-farm girl. Do you get what I’m saying? When I’m sitting at the table or behind the computer screen, I know that the writer on the other side is just like me. So, I’m mindful. I’m kind but firm. Enthusiastic but realistic. I’m all about love, support, and a kick in the pants! All writers need bundles of that stuff.
BWR: Can you give any advice for writing an elevator pitch or hook to gain a request?
VM: Yes, but firstly, I think you should know the truth about the query letter and synopsis. I don’t read most of them! Not at first. I go right to the opening pages. I read the query and synopsis only if the first five pages hook me. Every editor is different. Some editors only read the query and the synopsis and reject based on how well they are written. Granted, a pitch, query, and synopsis will give me a good indication of how well the story is told most of the time. If the writer doesn’t lay out a good pitch, query, or synopsis, then the story probably has developmental problems. It shows how uncertain a writer is about their own story. I know how hard they are hard to write. I get it. It’s a colossal task to condense a three-hundred-page novel into one paragraph or one line. Nevertheless, often it’s because there are too many stories happening in the manuscript or the main protagonist is getting secondary characters to do the hard work of being a Lead. But there are always exceptions.
So, back to your question. Here’s a handy template using the words when and must to state your pitch in twenty-five words: When a __________ is __________ , he/she must __________. Here are some examples (can you guess the famous stories?):
When a greedy businessman is haunted by ghosts who show him how ruined his life will become, he must make life-altering changes before it’s too late.
When his mob-boss father is murdered, a law-abiding, former soldier must choose between the American Dream or family loyalty and revenge.
Note how there is the promise of conflict. Something happens that forces the protagonist to make a change, a choice with ramifications. Note how none of the pitches mention the resolution. Instead, they point us towards the drama that may unfold. The when is the event, situation, or disruption to the protagonist’s world. The must is the protagonist taking action because of the event, situation, or disruption.
I often find that the must is missing from pitches—and even from whole manuscripts. Protagonists must make choices and these choices can’t be easy or the story is boring. There must be ramifications with either choice. Give them hell!
BWG: Is there anything else you would like to share with us?
VM: Yes! On the behalf of all editors everywhere, I want to thank you and all the writers out there. Thank you for letting us into your creative world. I know how hard it is to let your “baby” go and entrust it to the care of an editor. I want to acknowledge the guts that it takes to be a writer and put yourself out there. I’m so happy that you are in the world! Keep learning. Keep pushing your boundaries. Keep moving forward one page at a time.