In their words: Roxana & Veronica Morgenstern

I want to know your experience, Veronica, on 9/11, and how that was for you.

Veronica: Okay. I was in seventh grade so I was 12 . . . and I was in my English class in the morning. It got interrupted — the principal came in and said [that we were] having an assembly, which was already weird because assemblies were planned and we didn’t know about this one. So we all went and... I went to a really small school. It was not a lot of us. And we went into the gym, and the principal told us that a plane had flown into the Twin Towers. I actually, I don't remember... I don’t remember anything about how she described it, but I remember she said a plane had flown into the Twin Towers . . . and that the tower had collapsed, and that they were calling our parents just to make sure that we would come get picked up. We wanted to talk about stuff but I genuinely don’t remember the details really of what she was saying.

The first thing that I thought was that I was scared that my mom was dead, and I saw like a lot of other kids around me started to cry. [They were] freaking out much more than me because their parents worked at the actual towers. So, we were all kind of just in shock, [which], for a group of 11- to 14-year-olds, is a weird thing. . . . And then we went back to our classes and didn’t do anything. Then pretty slowly... the teacher said [something] like, “If you want to talk, we’re here. . . . There’s a lot going on, and the news is changing every minute so I’ll try and keep you updated.” And then slowly people started coming to pick them up, and then my dad was there to pick me up. And he was very serious. I just remember wanting to ask him if my mom was okay, but I was scared to do that, and then, pretty quickly he was like, “Mom's okay . . . she wasn’t at the office.” So that was helpful, and he told me that my mom was on her way to pick my brother up from school.

And then... I used to go to school in the part of the city called the Upper East Side, and to get from there to our apartment you had to take one of the buses going downtown and I just... it took forever. Because there was tons and tons of traffic . . . and also there were just like seas of people just like walking down the street. . . . Cell phones were relatively new, they weren’t the best. There was not good cell service for most people and so a lot of people were freaking out because they couldn't get in touch with their loved ones. A lot of people were lending each other their cell phones, which in New York is like a crazy thing to see. And then we got home. In my old bedroom and in my parents’ bedroom, the windows face out so you... we used to be able to see the Twin Towers everywhere. We looked out the window and it was like totally black. The sky was completely black. The rest of the day we were quietly in shock at home and watched the news.

So has your experience of that day, has that ever come back to you? Like, do you think about it often?

Veronica: I worked down there. Well, now I don’t, I work from my house, but I worked in the building where my mom used to [work], so I worked really close to the Twin Towers, or where the Twin Towers used to be — close to Wall Street and a lot of landmarks. And so, I can’t help but think about it. Basically, when I go to work, and see the amount of police and security that are there... Depending on which exit of the train I get off the signs say, “9/11 Memorial.” So I think about that, I see reminders of it every single day. And on the subway and buses they have a campaign that says, “If you see something, say something.” But I also think every time I’m at my parents’ house and I look out the windows I still see the Twin Towers [even though] we now can see the Freedom Tower. But I also just think about it in terms of how politics and policies and security and all of that, and racism and everything, have played, play a part in where we are now.

What are your thoughts, Roxana?

Roxana: Mine? Yes. On what exactly?

On just if you relive this the day, or...?

Roxana: As Veronica said, you know, it’s in your face all the time. I mean you can’t avoid it. There are walls that you walk by, fences that you walk by, and I still see the notes that people left, and they’re faded or, you know, people still have memorials for that on 9/11. I don't know if you're aware of the two beams that [shoot into] the sky — so see that. [Roxana is referring to the “Tribute in Light” art installation that marks each 9/11 anniversary]. I mean Veronica said you can see from, you know, our bedrooms that... but also from our living room. [Our apartment is] so high up that, you know, you can see the hospital where everything was being taken care of, and parts were being taken to. So they created — which I see directly out my window — what was a morgue. That morgue — unfortunately, it really turned out not to be necessary because there weren't that many bodies recovered. So what they’ve done is they turned what was the morgue into sort of like a reflection area, like a little park of sorts. No one goes. I mean it’s really weird, and it’s... and we, you know, it’s part of the back of a hospital so it’s weird but I see it directly. So, every time I look out the window, I see this reflecting, you know, park or whatever it is. And not only is it a reminder of what it is but it's an even more of a depressing kind of thing because no one's ever there. So it’s very bizarre. So yeah, it’s part of our reality.

Veronica: When you’re downtown like there are parts of the city, especially by where my parents live because there are so many hospitals there where for years — now not so much, because it's been so much time — there were notes and pictures and all these different things of people saying things like, “Missing” or, “Have you seen my family?” People would put drawings from little kids and like some flowers and stuff like that. Downtown in the West Village there’s a whole area by one of the other hospitals that used to be down there, like a fence that has all these memorials. But now, on the hospital fences and walls by where my parents live, none of that is still there. Except every time I walk past it, that’s the image that's in my head. Not of the blank wall. And I think of the day itself a lot, too, because it was one of the scariest days of my life, the first time I had to think about my family not being okay, in a different than way I was not used to.

Roxana: Yeah and mind you all your senses were heightened because just the smell was so intense. Yeah, for weeks, week after week.

Veronica: Where my parents lived there was like dust and debris in the sky and it smelled really bad. And we didn't go back to school for a while, so it was crazy.

How long did it take for you to deal with it, emotionally?

Veronica: I don't know. I think it took a while because I had friends at school whose parents did die, or family members who died. So at least like the rest of the middle school, it was something that was different for all of us. It was really weird going back to school. I felt really lucky because everyone that I knew and loved was okay. So, it was a different kind of thing, but emotionally now I’m fine. I’m okay, except that I know that the good New York City that we live in is totally different. And I don’t know, in my work — I'm a trauma therapist. So I work with people who have all different types of trauma, but like sometimes this specifically. So I have to encounter the impact that it has had on other people even if they don't have direct loved ones who died, just like in terms of their sense of safety and security. I see that all the time.

Do you feel safer now? Like do you think America is safer now, or do you think we have just put things into place to make it seem like it's safer?

Veronica: I don’t think it’s safer at all. Yes, I do think that we have put things into place to make it seem like it’s safer. But I also think that’s because of a lot of things — it’s not the only one. . . . I think that a lot of the big problems that we have, because of the racism and nationalism — I don’t think that while security measures were adopted and wars were started off, I... I don’t feel safer. . . . I actually grew up hearing about our family members like having to leave their countries of origin because of war. And so I knew that war was a thing, but I always thought of it as something that happened in other places. But since September 11, I think, the idea that like a war could happen here... I don't think about it all the time, and I think about it differently than I did when I was 12 and 13. [But] I think that it’s much more of a possibility now than it was before.

Roxana: Yeah, I don’t even think that that was much of an issue before. The United States is such a huge country, and it's like we all lived in a bubble, and, you know, so many U.S. citizens not only have never left our country but have never left their town. That international experience is something that was so foreign to them. Because you know, wars happened elsewhere, we were so protected. So it’s not a before-or-after kind of thing. It’s sort of like, “Oh, we're thrown into this now, we are vulnerable, and you know these things can come at us.” Quite frankly, politically, I personally don't think that we are really even aware of what these countries have and the power that they have, and . . . there are all these freaking men running the countries, and, you know, like where are these egos coming from? If you look at the countries that are run by women, now they are in better shape now with this whole coronavirus than any of the other countries. I mean, look at New Zealand. I mean they’ve been beautiful. She [Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern] has been amazing. And so, those are a lot of the issues that politically have grown out of 9/11 and now they're just... I feel like they're being revived in a very different way.

Veronica: Well, I used to run a legal program for undocumented immigrants, and I work primarily now with Latino immigrants. I’ve been to the border, and I know what types of questions get asked when people are crossing the border and how it’s different than it used to be before — some questions are on there because of September 11th. That stuff definitely changed. That’s something that I encounter all the time, but also just like in New York, where most people are not white. For me growing up, I was the whitest person, and technically I’m not white because... I’m half Jewish and Latina so they don’t know what to do. But in New York, being surrounded by so many people who are immigrants, who come from immigrant families, it is the fear of persecution. . . .

So in my 9/11 class, we've been comparing the situation of 9/11 and the COVID-19 outbreak. And we've seen that both of them brought unity to our country. What do you think? What are your opinions on that? Like, how we handled 9/11 and how we're handling this.

Roxana: It’s an interesting question on so many levels because, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is that the coronavirus is putting us, and by us I mean all of humanity, in the same place [in that] we're all confronted with the same situation; we’re all stuck, and we're all trying to survive. We’re all freaking out, you know, and a million thoughts coming in and out. What is different about 9/11 — even though that was also something that the entire world experienced, the biggest difference [is that the] coronavirus [is] being handled differently depending on where you are. Once again, we’re feeling it a lot more than anybody else.

But what was stunning to me was that a very dear acquaintance compared when — you know, she called me to see if I was okay with 9/11. . . and I told her whatever it was that I was telling her like the day after, two days after, and she says, “Oh, I, you know, I'm sure that you're going through exactly the same thing that we here in San Francisco went through when we had the big earthquake.” And I went, “Hell no, don't even go there with, you know, don't even. I said, an earthquake occurs because it’s a natural disaster. You’re telling me that these guys over there that decided to kill themselves to destroy our country is any kind of comparison?” It's not even apples and oranges, it’s like concrete versus, you know, oranges. So to me, in a way, yes we're all in this together, as we were with 9/11 and the coronavirus, but they're very different situations, you know. New York felt 9/11 in a way that others around the world didn't, just like we are now.

Also, don’t get me wrong, but it’s different and even though I do see some connection to terrorism and the virus, you know, and oh my god, you know, don’t put these thoughts into terrorists, because maybe now they'll definitely go and poison water. . . . But the only thing that I see that's the same is that as a planet we all have to deal with this. But I think that it’s become a much more intense thing that we have to deal with now, because it's personally touching so many of us and so many deaths. . . . So there are similarities but in the same way there are also tremendous differences in what we’re experiencing.

Veronica: Yeah, I don’t know how I feel. The similarity for me is that like in New York City, we’re in a bubble, which is how I feel every day of my life because anytime I leave New York City, I’m like, this is not like the rest of the world. Especially like… This is not [even] like the rest of the country. And so like this similarity — yeah, I see it. I feel a lot of like unity and all of that in New York City. And then it's being taken seriously, and we’re all affected. Even people who don’t know people who have gotten sick are all taking it seriously, and they’re like, “We’re in it together,” and I feel like it’s the same thing as sharing cell phones on the bus. We’re all trying to help each other even if it’s just by staying home. I feel more connected again, globally, to know that like everyone is more or less like doing the same thing — it is a weird thing, a crazy kind of thing, but I feel more connected to like family and friends that we have in Spain and Italy.

When I watch the news and see what's happening in the rest of the country... because I see that not everyone... like that there are like states reopening and people are like running to the gun store and protests. I feel very much disjointed from the rest of the country. My mom and I were in Miami like a week before the “stay at home” order went into place and we already . . . were really paying attention to and thinking about cleaning and all of that — how do we stay away from others? And I love Miami but [we were] in public, and people are just like right next to you — it felt so, so different compared to when I came home. And now I’ve been home, and it’s not to say that New York is better than everywhere else — that’s not what I'm trying to say, or that the coasts are better than everywhere else here — but I feel like in New York with COVID and with September 11th, we’ve kind of stopped and been unified [and it’s about the] crisis at hand. We have to respond and take care of each other. And I think about what happened on September 11th and then I look at a lot of other parts of the country, and I’m like, “Okay, they’ve taken this to like another place and it’s not even fucking about that; like it’s not about buying, not about like, ‘I need a haircut,’ it’s not about this, it’s not about that; it’s about like safety and being good for each other like doing these things.” And so if anything, that feels more similar to me.

How have you discussed with your children the events and the impacts on the world?

Roxana: Yeah, so it would be interesting for me to hear what Veronica's recollection of it is.

Veronica: I . . . don't remember a lot of... I remember them talking about practical things. Like I have asthma, so I’d be frustrated that I was going to leave the house and I had to wear a mask. But they really explained the realities of what happened and what the aftermath was, they both kept checking in on us and about how we were feeling, and saying things like, “This is gonna change things forever.” My mom’s like, “You should write about it in a journal so you always have a memory of what this day was like, and so you can get some of your thoughts out.” [But] I remember thinking, “I don’t know how I feel right now.” So they were just really good about checking in with us and talking about it, and being honest with us about it and not trying to hide information, which I appreciated.

One of the things that hit home was that one day we went downtown to where everyone was changing shifts, like whenever the first responders were changing shifts at night — maybe it was 7:00, I don't know. A bunch of people would gather on the highway and cheer for them and give them cookies and all that — it was first responders coming from like Connecticut, from Pennsylvania, from New Jersey. And standing there and cheering with my family and all these other New Yorkers… that felt good, and it was something that helped. I was really glad that my parents brought us to do that because amidst like them telling us the realities of what was going on and all of that, it was helpful to have something to see — like, “Oh, but we live in such a great place where like people do these things for each other.”