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Walther P22Q
Walther P22Q
A Sportsman’s Warehouse Black Friday deal on the Walther P22Q that featured a price lower than a P17 and included 200 rounds of Federal Punch led me to give the P22Q another try. Last year I ended up making use of Walther’s 30 day money back guarantee after a 90% failure rate in double action, loose rear sight, and a pokey spring on the hammer pivot.
I’m happy that this one has a snug rear sight, a less pokey spring, and with a hundred rounds dedicated to just double action, it ran very reliably.
Overall single action and double action…100 rounds of CCI Mini-Mag was 100%...as was 100 rounds of Aquila 40 gr HV. I tried some standard velocity CCI Blazer and it was 80% reliable. Ironically, Federal Punch was a mess, failing to cycle exactly 50% of the time. I suspect with additional break-in I’ll see an improvement in Punch, but I’m going to dedicate my Punch stash to revolvers only. Semi-autos just seem to struggle with Punch’s slightly longer case.
So Mini-Mag it is. I’m very pleased to have the little pistol back in my armory. I really like the option of a self-defense 22 that is single action and double action. With a round chambered, hammer down in half cock, the double action long trigger pull is a nice layer of safety.
Safeties, the P22Q has lots of them. Firing pin block plunger disengaged by trigger bar. An ambi thumb safety that physically blocks the hammer from striking the firing pin…awesome for MantisX dry firing. Magazine disconnect safety, that I and most other shooters dislike. Walther should throw on a trigger dongle safety and a grip safety just to have them all.
Magazine disconnects…I removed the mag disconnect from my LCP II, but I’m beginning to make my peace with them. I don’t think any experienced shooter likes them, but think of what happens after you die. Who in your family might be tasked with processing your firearms. I’d trust my 4 year old grandson to clear and make my pistol safe. But some other adult family members, maybe not. If there be an afterlife, I sure don’t want to be looking down in horror as a beloved ejects the mag and then fumbles around with the pistol - a cartridge still in the chamber.
Will I be switching from the P17 to the P22Q for CCW? Probably not. I prefer the P17’s paddle mag release, thinner, lighter, more rounds per size and weight, and slightly longer barrel. The P17 mags are about 1/3rd the price of the P22’s magazines. And half the weight.
Who would be the ideal candidate for the Walther P22Q? Someone who wants to fondle and appreciate the better craftsmanship and elegance of the German pistol. Someone who wants layers of safeties. Someone who understands the diminishing marginal utility of each additional round beyond a baseline. And someone who likes the option of single action/double action. The P22Q grip feels great in the hand, too, but I prefer the P17’s narrow, less comfy grip, that indexes slightly better for point shooting.
There is some online “controversy” suggesting that the P22Q is manufactured by Umarex…Umarex being more well known for airsoft products. Umarex owns Walther, so maybe some parts are…maybe the grip frame. I do like that there is a very affordable Umarex P22 airsoft pistol available…one of my grandson’s favorites. There is something to be said for the option of practicing point shooting conveniently in your home with airsoft and styrofoam cups. Although Umarex needs to update it to match the current iteration of P22 grip and slide…and fix the slide stop and safety to work like the real thing. Although, I’d rather dry fire practice with the real P22Q using MantisX, Mantis Laser Academy, and an Accurize laser.
I have five P17’s that have all been awesome. With a sample size of two, my experience with the P22Q went to 50%. I was so happy with the good side of the 50%, that I returned to returned to the Black Friday sale and picked up a second. A quick trip to the range, the second performed identically…perfect with Mini-Mag, awful with Punch…in fact it was even worse with Punch since I had to knock out every spent case with a cleaning rod. So now, with a sample size of three, I’m 68%. I am wondering why Walther partnered with Federal Punch, seems like it will be damaging to their reputation and cause lots of customer service heartache. Just use the Punch for something else, feed the P22 Mini-Mag.
I think that even if you get a bad one that fails to operate in double action, Walther will quickly take care of it…or just cash in on their 30 day money back guarantee and get another. I don’t know of any other firearm manufacturer who has the money back guarantee option. That alone says a lot.
I’m happy that this one has a snug rear sight, a less pokey spring, and with a hundred rounds dedicated to just double action, it ran very reliably.
Overall single action and double action…100 rounds of CCI Mini-Mag was 100%...as was 100 rounds of Aquila 40 gr HV. I tried some standard velocity CCI Blazer and it was 80% reliable. Ironically, Federal Punch was a mess, failing to cycle exactly 50% of the time. I suspect with additional break-in I’ll see an improvement in Punch, but I’m going to dedicate my Punch stash to revolvers only. Semi-autos just seem to struggle with Punch’s slightly longer case.
So Mini-Mag it is. I’m very pleased to have the little pistol back in my armory. I really like the option of a self-defense 22 that is single action and double action. With a round chambered, hammer down in half cock, the double action long trigger pull is a nice layer of safety.
Safeties, the P22Q has lots of them. Firing pin block plunger disengaged by trigger bar. An ambi thumb safety that physically blocks the hammer from striking the firing pin…awesome for MantisX dry firing. Magazine disconnect safety, that I and most other shooters dislike. Walther should throw on a trigger dongle safety and a grip safety just to have them all.
Magazine disconnects…I removed the mag disconnect from my LCP II, but I’m beginning to make my peace with them. I don’t think any experienced shooter likes them, but think of what happens after you die. Who in your family might be tasked with processing your firearms. I’d trust my 4 year old grandson to clear and make my pistol safe. But some other adult family members, maybe not. If there be an afterlife, I sure don’t want to be looking down in horror as a beloved ejects the mag and then fumbles around with the pistol - a cartridge still in the chamber.
Will I be switching from the P17 to the P22Q for CCW? Probably not. I prefer the P17’s paddle mag release, thinner, lighter, more rounds per size and weight, and slightly longer barrel. The P17 mags are about 1/3rd the price of the P22’s magazines. And half the weight.
Who would be the ideal candidate for the Walther P22Q? Someone who wants to fondle and appreciate the better craftsmanship and elegance of the German pistol. Someone who wants layers of safeties. Someone who understands the diminishing marginal utility of each additional round beyond a baseline. And someone who likes the option of single action/double action. The P22Q grip feels great in the hand, too, but I prefer the P17’s narrow, less comfy grip, that indexes slightly better for point shooting.
There is some online “controversy” suggesting that the P22Q is manufactured by Umarex…Umarex being more well known for airsoft products. Umarex owns Walther, so maybe some parts are…maybe the grip frame. I do like that there is a very affordable Umarex P22 airsoft pistol available…one of my grandson’s favorites. There is something to be said for the option of practicing point shooting conveniently in your home with airsoft and styrofoam cups. Although Umarex needs to update it to match the current iteration of P22 grip and slide…and fix the slide stop and safety to work like the real thing. Although, I’d rather dry fire practice with the real P22Q using MantisX, Mantis Laser Academy, and an Accurize laser.
I have five P17’s that have all been awesome. With a sample size of two, my experience with the P22Q went to 50%. I was so happy with the good side of the 50%, that I returned to returned to the Black Friday sale and picked up a second. A quick trip to the range, the second performed identically…perfect with Mini-Mag, awful with Punch…in fact it was even worse with Punch since I had to knock out every spent case with a cleaning rod. So now, with a sample size of three, I’m 68%. I am wondering why Walther partnered with Federal Punch, seems like it will be damaging to their reputation and cause lots of customer service heartache. Just use the Punch for something else, feed the P22 Mini-Mag.
I think that even if you get a bad one that fails to operate in double action, Walther will quickly take care of it…or just cash in on their 30 day money back guarantee and get another. I don’t know of any other firearm manufacturer who has the money back guarantee option. That alone says a lot.
First Minuteman Review of the P22 did not go well...made use of Walther's Money Back Guarantee.
First Minuteman Review of the P22 did not go well...made use of Walther's Money Back Guarantee.
Low grip ratio is comfortable, but not optimal to index for point shooting.
Rounds per size and weight are not the equal of modern peers….LCP, P17, or P322
Wobbly rear and plastic sights are inconsistent with Walther quality.
Manual safety and standard pic rail for dry firing with MantisX. I did 320 rounds of dry fire before range testing with 600 rounds of live.
Mag disconnect safety…yuch
Short leverage mag release Paddles are stiff. This is my least favorite paddle mag release and it is still way better than any button.
Plastic take down clip feels breaky and can break a fingernail.
Pokey spring protrudes slightly from hammer
Good single action trigger.
Double action allows for hammer down, round in chamber carry as well as second strike capability.
However, Frequent, but intermittent failures to fire in double action ultimately led me to take advantage of Walther’s generous 30 day money back guarantee. Given size and limited capacity compared to the Ruger LCP II, I’m not willing to go down the “get it running” rabbit hole.
I do like the cute, paddle mag release,compact, double action Walther P22 22LR pistols. Went looking for an excuse to do another video on the P22. Tandemkross helped by sending me their Eagle Talon’s extractor.
Thanks to blow back, I’ve had no live fire extraction problems with my P22 twins, but before installing the TandemKross upgrades, I tried manually cycling thru 30 rounds…to see how well the stock extractor pulls out unfired rounds. Out of the 30, the stock extractor failed to extract 7 times. No problems live fire, but this is the issue seeking a solution.
Extractor installation was simple. Drive the roll pin out and the stock extractor falls into your hand. Comparing the stock to the Eagle’s Talon my layman’s eye finds the TK extractor looks to be of higher quality material. I couldn’t detect any changes in overall dimensions. The extractor spring is noticeably stiffer. Installation…partially seat the roll pin in the slide, align and hold the extractor spring and extractor in place, then carefully drive the pin in place with a plastic gunsmith’s mallet.
Range testing was really all about the extractor.
My pre-installation live fire baseline had no malfs, but I had 7 out of 30 failures when manually cycling the P22Q. Repeating the 30 round manual cycling test with the TK extractor, I had zero failures. And 100 rounds of live fire produced no malfunctions. Nice…especially for those who want to do press checks with their p22q.
With the stiffer extractor spring, I had some concern that the extractor could ding the cartridge rim enough to fire the pistol. I've never heard of such a thing happening, but my paranoid imaginings has me thinking such a thing is not impossible. But no problems. The TandemKross Eagles Talon Extractor performed perfectly.
My other P22 will get the TK extractor upgrade.
Thanks to blow back, I’ve had no live fire extraction problems with my P22 twins, but before installing the TandemKross upgrades, I tried manually cycling thru 30 rounds…to see how well the stock extractor pulls out unfired rounds. Out of the 30, the stock extractor failed to extract 7 times. No problems live fire, but this is the issue seeking a solution.
Extractor installation was simple. Drive the roll pin out and the stock extractor falls into your hand. Comparing the stock to the Eagle’s Talon my layman’s eye finds the TK extractor looks to be of higher quality material. I couldn’t detect any changes in overall dimensions. The extractor spring is noticeably stiffer. Installation…partially seat the roll pin in the slide, align and hold the extractor spring and extractor in place, then carefully drive the pin in place with a plastic gunsmith’s mallet.
Range testing was really all about the extractor.
My pre-installation live fire baseline had no malfs, but I had 7 out of 30 failures when manually cycling the P22Q. Repeating the 30 round manual cycling test with the TK extractor, I had zero failures. And 100 rounds of live fire produced no malfunctions. Nice…especially for those who want to do press checks with their p22q.
With the stiffer extractor spring, I had some concern that the extractor could ding the cartridge rim enough to fire the pistol. I've never heard of such a thing happening, but my paranoid imaginings has me thinking such a thing is not impossible. But no problems. The TandemKross Eagles Talon Extractor performed perfectly.
My other P22 will get the TK extractor upgrade.
Tandemkross Fire Starter Firing Pin for the Walther P22
TandemKross provided another excuse for a Walther P22Q video with their Fire Starter Firing Pin.
I’ve had no live fire problems with my P22 twins, so I'm not looking to fix a problem but rather improve durability and reliability.
The Fire Starter Firing pin requires you to drive out a roll pin to remove the bolt face from the slide, capture the safety plunger, pull the firing pin, and secure the firing pin return spring. I couldn’t detect any change in dimensions, but the Fire Starter does look like better quality steel than the stock firing pin. Installation is the reverse: I recommend following TK’s instruction video to make sure the firing pin block is properly seated and that the firing pin return spring is in place. Since the slide holds these pieces in place you can't just flip things over to get a good view of reinstallation. Maybe a mirror would help. I just took my time by feel and took care to make sure the safety plunger spring didn't get fouled.
My pre-installation live fire baseline had no malfunctions. Post installation 100 rounds of live fire produced no malfunctions either. But durability was my goal for the firing pin. Anyone experiencing light strikes or suffering a broken firing pin should install the American made TandemKross Fire Starter Firing Pin rather than seeking a warranty replacement of the mediocre stock one.
The Fire Starter will be going in my other P22.
TandemKross provided another excuse for a Walther P22Q video with their Fire Starter Firing Pin.
I’ve had no live fire problems with my P22 twins, so I'm not looking to fix a problem but rather improve durability and reliability.
The Fire Starter Firing pin requires you to drive out a roll pin to remove the bolt face from the slide, capture the safety plunger, pull the firing pin, and secure the firing pin return spring. I couldn’t detect any change in dimensions, but the Fire Starter does look like better quality steel than the stock firing pin. Installation is the reverse: I recommend following TK’s instruction video to make sure the firing pin block is properly seated and that the firing pin return spring is in place. Since the slide holds these pieces in place you can't just flip things over to get a good view of reinstallation. Maybe a mirror would help. I just took my time by feel and took care to make sure the safety plunger spring didn't get fouled.
My pre-installation live fire baseline had no malfunctions. Post installation 100 rounds of live fire produced no malfunctions either. But durability was my goal for the firing pin. Anyone experiencing light strikes or suffering a broken firing pin should install the American made TandemKross Fire Starter Firing Pin rather than seeking a warranty replacement of the mediocre stock one.
The Fire Starter will be going in my other P22.
P22 - Function of Fire Control Components Illustrated
P22 - Function of Fire Control Components Illustrated
Hammer all the way down, double action.1. If there is no magazine in the pistol and the magazine safety is working it will press down on the trigger bar not allowing it to engage the hammer cocking strut or the sear. The trigger will simply move back and forth as you pull and release it.
2. When you begin pulling the trigger rearward the trigger bar begins to move rearward and the trigger bar spring begins to lift the trigger bar. This lift is essential.3. Fully inserting a magazine, loaded or empty, into the pistol and locking it in place physically presses the polymer safety foot upward, compressing the safety spring and rendering it non functional. The top of the expanded metal catch ears on the magazine are the portion of the mag that engages this safety and push it upward. The trigger bar is now free to rise a sufficient amount to properly engage first the hammer cocking strut and then the sear.
4. As the trigger bar moves rearward, the trigger spring positions that portion of the bar located between the two rear vertical legs so it engages the front notch of the hammer strut.
As the hammer strut is pressed rearward and begins cocking the hammer, the front nose of the strut drags along a short section of the floor of the left side plate or left side of the frame. The engagement and timing of events these parts control are critical to proper operation so don't go grinding on stuff other than the trigger bar ears. Polish, yes, grind away....NO! It is critical that the front nose of the hammer strut not be ground or worn down or this part will disengage from the trigger bar before the hammer is properly cocked. Cocking the hammer against the hammer spring pressure forces the front end of the strut downward where the bottom of the nose slides along the frame. Walther has carefully engineered this component to release from the trigger bar but it must be at the right time.As the trigger is pulled further rearward, the trigger bar pressing the hammer strut rearward and in the process cocking the hammer proceeds until the top, outer edge of the rear of the trigger bar engages a small steel pin imbedded in the sides of the frame. This pin causes the trigger bar to move downward as the trigger bar continues to be pressed rearward. At the right position and moment in relation to sear engagement the hammer strut slips off the trigger bar allowing the hammer to fall and the pistol to fire.
5. Concurrently, as the trigger bar moves rearward engaging the hammer strut, the two rear legs on the trigger bar begin to engage the bottom legs of the sear. The sear is rotated out of the way as the trigger bar is still engaging the spur. With the sear rotated counterclockwise the front arm on the sear, opposite of the ejector, and which until this point has engaged the firing pin block also drops and in the process allows the internally spring loaded block to free the firing pin.6. So with the sear rotated out of the way, the firing pin block freed, the hammer will drop just as soon as the slanted pins force the trigger bar downward enough to release the spur/hammer. This is part of the reason double action action isn't so good for target practice. A cocked hammer and single action requiring much less trigger travel and using the sear for release is better than a sloping pin and release by the trigger bar.7. In single action much of the above has already been accomplished, the hammer is cocked and the sear has engaged the cock notch of the hammer. The trigger is also pulled rearward by a pin through the front of the hammer spur. This takes up slack and positions the trigger rearward for less pre-travel for single action shots.What happens here is the trigger bar rises, engages the bottom legs of the sear and rotates it counterclockwise off the hammer's cock notch. The same action regarding the dropping of the front arm and freeing of the firing pin block also. When the sear breaks the hammer falls. The trigger bar is still engaged and holds the sear clear of the hammer. When the slide moves rearward after a shot is fired, two ramps under each side of the slide engage the two trigger bar ears which knock the spring loaded trigger bar downward and in the process disengages it from the sear. The sear then quickly rotates clockwise in time to catch the hammer and hold it cocked.
Notice that none of the springs are installed. This has no impact on illustrating what is going on but if they are in place it sure makes holding the camera and the pistol much more difficult if you are doing this all by yourself.
My finger for example replaces the mag safety spring in pressing the safety foot down. Other components have been placed in their proper position for illustrating what is going on. The only error is that the nose of the hammer strut is positioned a little too low. When the left side of the frame is installed, a floor, pictured later, fits under the strut and does not allow the nose to drop as low as it is in some pictures.
Disregard that sentence "also notice that the". What I meant to say is that the hammer is not far enough rearward for the sear to engage the cock notch but that isn't important as the sear is kept rotated out of the way if everything is working properly. The sear plays no part regarding release of the hammer in DA. Walther wouldn't have put those slanted pins in the side of the frame if it worked some other way. Caution, the tolerance and timing here are critical which means don't jump in there and start grinding on stuff. Polish.....yes, file and grind....no. Here is what is happening above in DA. The trigger bar is being moved rearward by the trigger. The trigger bar has engaged the hammer strut and begun to rotate the hammer rearward. Looking closely you can see this in the picture above and that the top part of the rear trigger bar legs are barely engaging the sear and have rotated it out of the way of the hammer. With the trigger bar properly positioned, the sear barely held out of the way, the rear shoulders of the trigger bar slide down the steel pins until the hammer strut slips off of the trigger bar allowing the hammer to fall. DA release....totally different from SA.
Walther PPQ Ambi 9mm
Walther PPQ Ambi 9mm
Walther PPQ M1 Classic
27:21European paddle mag release perfectly mirrored, not opposedSlide release mirrored and well leveredSize and weight top four composite score.61 rounds per ounce Trigger...diverge from other reviewersAmbi Perfection
Ambi Perfection
29:45A neck 'n neck battle between two 15 round, 9mm pistols.
VP9Best Paddle Magazine ReleaseExceptional TriggerBest grip feelAdequate left hand slide release
PPQExceptional TriggerBest Trigger resetBest ambi slide releaseLightest
VP9Best Paddle Magazine ReleaseExceptional TriggerBest grip feelAdequate left hand slide release
PPQExceptional TriggerBest Trigger resetBest ambi slide releaseLightest
Without a doubt the best training aid for pistols (and beneficial for rifles, too) MantisX
Because gun shot trauma all require the same emergency response whether from 22LR, 9mm, or 45ACP.
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Ambidextrous "optimal use of cover", optimal use of terrain for steady hold factors.Training the brain so that both the left and right eye can pick up the sighting system. Perfectly mirrored controls for unconscious, bilateral transfer of skill. operation both left and right handed.
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Ambidextrous "optimal use of cover", optimal use of terrain for steady hold factors.Training the brain so that both the left and right eye can pick up the sighting system. Perfectly mirrored controls for unconscious, bilateral transfer of skill. operation both left and right handed.
Affiliate Disclosure
Some of our posts at AmbGun.com contain affiliate links. If you click on an affiliate link and make a purchase, we may receive a small commission. Clicking on an affiliate link which earns a commission does not result in additional charges to you or cost you anything extra. Mentions of associated products within the content of AmbGun.com may not be noted as an affiliate in every referrence. Money earned via affiliate links helps keep the AmbGun web site and video production up and running. AmbGun hopes that you'd prefer that our efforts earn a commission rather than bypassing our affiliate links and simply adding to the bottom line of large marketers like Amazon.com
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