Embedded Files
AmbGun skipped KelTec's P15 because they went with a button mag release on the 9mm pistol. Our primary concern being accidental magazine disengagement. Well the PR57 bypasses that concern by eliminating the magazine release altogether. And it scores the highest of any pistol on our Rounds Per Size and Weight spreadsheet...significantly higher. The PR57 looks to be a true game changer in the CCW space.
It was like the PR57 was designed for me. It has a high 2.22 Applegate Grip Ratio that indexes well for point shooting. It is number one in my rounds per size and weight spreadsheet…over any caliber…scoring 50% higher than my lauded P17. Thin and light, It is one of the most pleasant IWB pistols I’ve ever carried. It is manufactured in my home state of Wyoming down in Rock Springs.
And its most controversial feature, the non-detachable internal magazine, means absolutely no possibility of accidental magazine disengagement. Button mag release pistols are notorious for getting accidentally pressed. Paddle mag releases, like the P17, are definitely better. I’m all on board for eliminating the mag release.
In a self defense situation, those first four rounds are crucial. After a day of jostling, you might draw your typical mag fed pistol, mag drops to the floor, leaving only your chambered round to handle business, with the fight having definitely tipped in your opponent’s favor. Those first 4 or 5 rounds are of the highest value and must fire. Each additional round beyond that has diminishing marginal utility. Moreover, by the time that first volley is fired, you should have moved off the X to find cover.
In the VERY unlikely event you expend your full 21 rounds, reloading from clips is fast enough to do when working from cover… It would be easy to carry another 40 to 60 rounds in these lightweight clips…in case you do live in a WROL area.
The internal magazine eliminates accidental magazine disengagements, greatly improves the rounds per size and weight, and contributes to its very narrow grip.
Now the question. Has the PR57 lured me back to centerfire from my 22LR KelTec P17?
Yes. I now carry the PR57 about 90% of the time. It’s probably not the best cartridge for bear defense, but it is great for gangs of men, packs of wolves, and the solitary mountain lion. It's so light I can carry more water and trauma gear in the backcountry than if I were carrying a REAL bear gun.
Reliability? I still occasionally, but rarely, have those failures to feed…easily solved with a forward assist tap on the slide. And one time it vomited out a live round without missing a beat…like bird parents booting a defective hatchling out of the nest.
But the pistol is not idiot proof. Once during reassembly, I neglected to push the trigger forward to reengage the barrel lock. It will shoot and it will generate some weird malfunctions…like this bullet tip caught in the witness hole.
Properly assembled, The PR57 behaves the best if you spank its bottom after loading. Really, it does. So maybe some of those malfunctions are from sparing the rod. I would like to see a PR57 with a slightly longer barrel. I’d also like to see the slide stop serrations angled for slide stop use…not optimized as if it were a slide release. And I wish the accessory rail had 3 or 4 more slots.
Do I recommend KelTec’s PR57?
If you can follow reassembly instructions, absolutely yes.
And its most controversial feature, the non-detachable internal magazine, means absolutely no possibility of accidental magazine disengagement. Button mag release pistols are notorious for getting accidentally pressed. Paddle mag releases, like the P17, are definitely better. I’m all on board for eliminating the mag release.
In a self defense situation, those first four rounds are crucial. After a day of jostling, you might draw your typical mag fed pistol, mag drops to the floor, leaving only your chambered round to handle business, with the fight having definitely tipped in your opponent’s favor. Those first 4 or 5 rounds are of the highest value and must fire. Each additional round beyond that has diminishing marginal utility. Moreover, by the time that first volley is fired, you should have moved off the X to find cover.
In the VERY unlikely event you expend your full 21 rounds, reloading from clips is fast enough to do when working from cover… It would be easy to carry another 40 to 60 rounds in these lightweight clips…in case you do live in a WROL area.
The internal magazine eliminates accidental magazine disengagements, greatly improves the rounds per size and weight, and contributes to its very narrow grip.
Now the question. Has the PR57 lured me back to centerfire from my 22LR KelTec P17?
Yes. I now carry the PR57 about 90% of the time. It’s probably not the best cartridge for bear defense, but it is great for gangs of men, packs of wolves, and the solitary mountain lion. It's so light I can carry more water and trauma gear in the backcountry than if I were carrying a REAL bear gun.
Reliability? I still occasionally, but rarely, have those failures to feed…easily solved with a forward assist tap on the slide. And one time it vomited out a live round without missing a beat…like bird parents booting a defective hatchling out of the nest.
But the pistol is not idiot proof. Once during reassembly, I neglected to push the trigger forward to reengage the barrel lock. It will shoot and it will generate some weird malfunctions…like this bullet tip caught in the witness hole.
Properly assembled, The PR57 behaves the best if you spank its bottom after loading. Really, it does. So maybe some of those malfunctions are from sparing the rod. I would like to see a PR57 with a slightly longer barrel. I’d also like to see the slide stop serrations angled for slide stop use…not optimized as if it were a slide release. And I wish the accessory rail had 3 or 4 more slots.
Do I recommend KelTec’s PR57?
If you can follow reassembly instructions, absolutely yes.
KelTec PR57 Clip Distraction and Magazine Disengagements
KelTec PR57 Clip Distraction and Magazine Disengagements
KelTec’s PR57 stunned the industry. An extremely lightweight and thin 5.7mm pistol, 20 round internal magazine, rotary barrel, and DA only trigger.
Twenty rounds in a pistol that weighs a mere 393 grams makes it the highest rounds per size and weight pistol in the AmbGun spreadsheet. Higher even than the P17 or CP33. It’s actually slightly shorter and narrower than the P17. Astonishing for a centerfire cartridge.
And it’s manufactured in KelTec’s Rock Springs, WY plant.
Twenty rounds. I rarely carry an extra magazine with my P17 or LCP II, so that’s more on tap than I normally have with me. But unloading, well I’m not a fan of having to cycle the slide 20 times to empty the pistol. But its effort endured at home to make carry easier and self defense “out there” more efficacious. Or just leave it loaded, but secured in a gun safe when not carried.
The benefit of an internal magazine? Internal, non-detachable magazine is what makes such high capacity in such a small footprint possible. Mag feed pistols have the grip material thickness and the mag material thickness plus some space to allow the mag to fall free. Duplication of space.
Without a magazine release button, there is no possibility of accidental disengagement of the magazine…an especially common problem for button releases. I’ve been a long time advocate of the paddle magazine as a means of reducing the risk of accidental mag disengagement. The PR57 totally eliminates the risk.
In a self defense situation, those first four rounds are crucial…not the 21st round or the 30th. Eliminating the risk of accidental disengagement is far more valuable than a sub 2 second reload of round number 21.
Loading with the clips. Everyone seems to focus on those clips. I regard the clips as just a step above those mag loader sleeves that are included with other pistols. I experimented with the clips enough to be competent, but ultimately stowed them away in the nice plastic pistol case just like I do with those mag loaders. If I felt the need to carry additional ammo, I might use them otherwise I prefer loading directly into the pistol. The clips are just a duplication of effort…load the clip and then load the clip into the pistol.
More AmbGun content on the PR57 is forthcoming, but so far I’ll say I’m supremely impressed.
Twenty rounds in a pistol that weighs a mere 393 grams makes it the highest rounds per size and weight pistol in the AmbGun spreadsheet. Higher even than the P17 or CP33. It’s actually slightly shorter and narrower than the P17. Astonishing for a centerfire cartridge.
And it’s manufactured in KelTec’s Rock Springs, WY plant.
Twenty rounds. I rarely carry an extra magazine with my P17 or LCP II, so that’s more on tap than I normally have with me. But unloading, well I’m not a fan of having to cycle the slide 20 times to empty the pistol. But its effort endured at home to make carry easier and self defense “out there” more efficacious. Or just leave it loaded, but secured in a gun safe when not carried.
The benefit of an internal magazine? Internal, non-detachable magazine is what makes such high capacity in such a small footprint possible. Mag feed pistols have the grip material thickness and the mag material thickness plus some space to allow the mag to fall free. Duplication of space.
Without a magazine release button, there is no possibility of accidental disengagement of the magazine…an especially common problem for button releases. I’ve been a long time advocate of the paddle magazine as a means of reducing the risk of accidental mag disengagement. The PR57 totally eliminates the risk.
In a self defense situation, those first four rounds are crucial…not the 21st round or the 30th. Eliminating the risk of accidental disengagement is far more valuable than a sub 2 second reload of round number 21.
Loading with the clips. Everyone seems to focus on those clips. I regard the clips as just a step above those mag loader sleeves that are included with other pistols. I experimented with the clips enough to be competent, but ultimately stowed them away in the nice plastic pistol case just like I do with those mag loaders. If I felt the need to carry additional ammo, I might use them otherwise I prefer loading directly into the pistol. The clips are just a duplication of effort…load the clip and then load the clip into the pistol.
More AmbGun content on the PR57 is forthcoming, but so far I’ll say I’m supremely impressed.
KelTec PR57 - Barrel, Velocity, True Rifled Barrel Length, vs 22LR
KelTec PR57 - Barrel, Velocity, True Rifled Barrel Length, vs 22LR
According to KelTec, the PR57 has a 4” barrel. Well it's a fucked up measuring system (not KelTec’s fault) that includes the chamber in the measurement…subtracting for the 5.7 cartridge, the PR57 has a true Rifled barrel length of 2.9”.
That's pretty short for the 5.7 cartridge. In contrast the P17’s 3.8” barrel, when adjusted for 22LR cartridge length is about 3.1” And my Ruger MK III has a true Rifled barrel 4.7’ long. The Walther P22Q, 2.8”. The Ruger LCP II lite rack, 2.1”. And since revolver barrel lengths are measured “properly”, the NAA Mini Revolver is true to factory specs at 1.125.
I thought, aha, maybe a longer barrel 22LR Pistol makes up for the 5.7’s powder advantage. So I headed to the range determined to prove that there was no benefit to running 5.7 out of such a short barrel when compared to 22LR. Thinking Lots of powder spent creating that muzzle flash.
Using a Garmin Xero Chrono I found…
The velocity of 40gr Mini-Mag out the P17’s barrel is 1017 fps, the Ruger kind of shocked me with a lower velocity of 995 fps, the Walther P22Q came in at 923, the Ruger LCP2 was 822 but if I ran 29 gr Punch it was 1094 fps. The tiny NAA Mini Revolver delivered 724 fps.
whereas the KelTec PR57 exits the muzzle at 1625 fps. Not exactly armor defeating but it is light cover piercing velocity. While I do not have a 22 magnum for comparison, I understand that I can expect 1300-1500 fps from that cartridge out of pistol length barrels.
In years past when 5.7 ammo was generally over $1 round, I might conclude the difference vs 22LR was not worth the price, but now that 5.7 can regularly be purchased for just 2-3 times the cost of 22LR or about the same as 9mm, things are more competitive.
5.7 was not tabulated in Greg Ellifritz’s research and was not available back when the “Handbook on Human Vulnerability” live animal tests were done. However, based upon the other pistol calibers tested, I doubt the 5.7 delivers significant real world human lethality differences over 22LR….or that it suffers in comparison to other calibers like 9mm and 45 ACP. Probably more of the “no discernible difference” as reported in “Handbook”.
5.7 benefits? Capacity. Velocity for flat shooting. Mild recoil. Reloadable and a bit more reliable than Rimfire. But you're not going to get those 5.7 touted 2,000+ fps “armor piercing” velocities out of a pistol…the PR57 or any other.
That's pretty short for the 5.7 cartridge. In contrast the P17’s 3.8” barrel, when adjusted for 22LR cartridge length is about 3.1” And my Ruger MK III has a true Rifled barrel 4.7’ long. The Walther P22Q, 2.8”. The Ruger LCP II lite rack, 2.1”. And since revolver barrel lengths are measured “properly”, the NAA Mini Revolver is true to factory specs at 1.125.
I thought, aha, maybe a longer barrel 22LR Pistol makes up for the 5.7’s powder advantage. So I headed to the range determined to prove that there was no benefit to running 5.7 out of such a short barrel when compared to 22LR. Thinking Lots of powder spent creating that muzzle flash.
Using a Garmin Xero Chrono I found…
The velocity of 40gr Mini-Mag out the P17’s barrel is 1017 fps, the Ruger kind of shocked me with a lower velocity of 995 fps, the Walther P22Q came in at 923, the Ruger LCP2 was 822 but if I ran 29 gr Punch it was 1094 fps. The tiny NAA Mini Revolver delivered 724 fps.
whereas the KelTec PR57 exits the muzzle at 1625 fps. Not exactly armor defeating but it is light cover piercing velocity. While I do not have a 22 magnum for comparison, I understand that I can expect 1300-1500 fps from that cartridge out of pistol length barrels.
In years past when 5.7 ammo was generally over $1 round, I might conclude the difference vs 22LR was not worth the price, but now that 5.7 can regularly be purchased for just 2-3 times the cost of 22LR or about the same as 9mm, things are more competitive.
5.7 was not tabulated in Greg Ellifritz’s research and was not available back when the “Handbook on Human Vulnerability” live animal tests were done. However, based upon the other pistol calibers tested, I doubt the 5.7 delivers significant real world human lethality differences over 22LR….or that it suffers in comparison to other calibers like 9mm and 45 ACP. Probably more of the “no discernible difference” as reported in “Handbook”.
5.7 benefits? Capacity. Velocity for flat shooting. Mild recoil. Reloadable and a bit more reliable than Rimfire. But you're not going to get those 5.7 touted 2,000+ fps “armor piercing” velocities out of a pistol…the PR57 or any other.
In the past two PR57 videos I highlighted the often unrecognized benefits of a fixed internal magazine and pointed out the velocity, cover penetrating advantage over 22LR.
But the PR57 has been experiencing a rather peculiar failure to feed issue for which it is taking a trip to Cocoa, FL for therapy. KelTec, great designs, sketchy QC, stellar customer service, so I expect it will return rejuvenated.
I was thinking that the issue would work out with lots of shooting, dry fire, and manipulation of the action. But after nearly 500 rounds of live fire I concluded an intervention was in order.
The feed issues were experienced with dummy rounds, FN 40 gr, and Fiocchi 40gr. And the feed issue was almost only the 2nd and 4th round from slide lock…on the left side of the magazine. My hypothesis is that the magazine follower or mag spring is getting slightly hung up on the edge of the fire control unit…a ledge where the FCU and grip meet. If I were confident in my diagnosis, I’d have pulled the FCU and chamfered things a bit.
I tried different lube. I tried grease on the slide rails. I tried KelTec’s recommended “tap and rack” to seat the cartridges without any improvement.
When running Fiocchi, I also experienced quite a few failures to eject. Use the slide stop to lock the slide, press down on the top round in the magazine and shift it back, then the empty case will easily fall out.
When the PR57 returns home, I’ll do a quick post outlining what was done or if the issue was actually between the trigger and the gun range, i.e., something I was doing wrong.
But the PR57 has been experiencing a rather peculiar failure to feed issue for which it is taking a trip to Cocoa, FL for therapy. KelTec, great designs, sketchy QC, stellar customer service, so I expect it will return rejuvenated.
I was thinking that the issue would work out with lots of shooting, dry fire, and manipulation of the action. But after nearly 500 rounds of live fire I concluded an intervention was in order.
The feed issues were experienced with dummy rounds, FN 40 gr, and Fiocchi 40gr. And the feed issue was almost only the 2nd and 4th round from slide lock…on the left side of the magazine. My hypothesis is that the magazine follower or mag spring is getting slightly hung up on the edge of the fire control unit…a ledge where the FCU and grip meet. If I were confident in my diagnosis, I’d have pulled the FCU and chamfered things a bit.
I tried different lube. I tried grease on the slide rails. I tried KelTec’s recommended “tap and rack” to seat the cartridges without any improvement.
When running Fiocchi, I also experienced quite a few failures to eject. Use the slide stop to lock the slide, press down on the top round in the magazine and shift it back, then the empty case will easily fall out.
When the PR57 returns home, I’ll do a quick post outlining what was done or if the issue was actually between the trigger and the gun range, i.e., something I was doing wrong.
After five weeks of relaxation on Florida’s sunny beaches, the KelTec PR57 returns home to Wyoming.
Service Notes: A new slide and barrel. Buffed trunnion. Successful test fire.
Straight out of the box, I load 10 dummy rounds to give it a try. Uh, oh. One of them failed to chamber.
Not panicking yet, I grabbed 50 rounds of Fiocchi and headed to the range.
50 rounds fired. No malfunctions. So I guess my hypothesis that the mag follower was hanging up on the FCU ledge was wrong. Happy to have the innovative pistol back home. A few more months and we’ll see how she does in extreme cold.
Service Notes: A new slide and barrel. Buffed trunnion. Successful test fire.
Straight out of the box, I load 10 dummy rounds to give it a try. Uh, oh. One of them failed to chamber.
Not panicking yet, I grabbed 50 rounds of Fiocchi and headed to the range.
50 rounds fired. No malfunctions. So I guess my hypothesis that the mag follower was hanging up on the FCU ledge was wrong. Happy to have the innovative pistol back home. A few more months and we’ll see how she does in extreme cold.
“Point shooting is not sighted fire, but it most certainly is aimed fire.”Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back: The Complete Textbook of Point Shooting for Close Quarters Combatby Michael Janich and Col. Rex Applegate
The KelTec PR57 is an exceptional point shooting pistol.
The PR57 has a grip ratio of 2.22, that is dividing the length of a grip fore and aft by the width. A pistol with a grip ratio of 2.0 or higher indexes better for point shooting…or for picking up your red dot.
Imagine if the grip ratio was 1.0 - basically like a round dowel rod or a broom handle Mauser. Seizing it blindfolded it would be impossible to discern the orientation of the muzzle.
Even medieval sword fighters wrote about the importance of being able to index a bladed weapon.
Rex Applegate emphasized the importance of grip angle for elevation success when point shooting. Col Applegate seemed to favor the Luger P-08’s 124 degree grip. Too many comment on how good a grip feels in the hand. Try closing your eyes, locking your wrist, bringing the pistol to eye level. I want the sights to be consistently aligned when I open my eyes. I find the PR57’s 105 degree grip and high grip ratio works best for me.
The PR57 is supremely suited for point shootingA proper grip angle for being on target with a locked wrist.A high grip ratio for indexing the muzzle on target.Low recoil for easy one handed operationSmooth quasi-Double action trigger for convulsive grip firingLow weight means easy to accelerate toward and then stop on target.
Gwrap, think of it as elbows up point shooting from the waist, is easy enough with the PR57. Light recoil makes it easier to lock down the slide and with its rotating barrel there is little risk of bloody pinching your palm.
The point is that the PR57 is an excellent Rex Applegate point shooting pistol.
The KelTec PR57 is an exceptional point shooting pistol.
The PR57 has a grip ratio of 2.22, that is dividing the length of a grip fore and aft by the width. A pistol with a grip ratio of 2.0 or higher indexes better for point shooting…or for picking up your red dot.
Imagine if the grip ratio was 1.0 - basically like a round dowel rod or a broom handle Mauser. Seizing it blindfolded it would be impossible to discern the orientation of the muzzle.
Even medieval sword fighters wrote about the importance of being able to index a bladed weapon.
Rex Applegate emphasized the importance of grip angle for elevation success when point shooting. Col Applegate seemed to favor the Luger P-08’s 124 degree grip. Too many comment on how good a grip feels in the hand. Try closing your eyes, locking your wrist, bringing the pistol to eye level. I want the sights to be consistently aligned when I open my eyes. I find the PR57’s 105 degree grip and high grip ratio works best for me.
The PR57 is supremely suited for point shootingA proper grip angle for being on target with a locked wrist.A high grip ratio for indexing the muzzle on target.Low recoil for easy one handed operationSmooth quasi-Double action trigger for convulsive grip firingLow weight means easy to accelerate toward and then stop on target.
Gwrap, think of it as elbows up point shooting from the waist, is easy enough with the PR57. Light recoil makes it easier to lock down the slide and with its rotating barrel there is little risk of bloody pinching your palm.
The point is that the PR57 is an excellent Rex Applegate point shooting pistol.
Not a lot of holster options for the PR57 at this time, but my P17 favorite led me back to Rounded Concealment Express for an IWB option for the PR57.
The PR57, being so light and thin, is shockingly easy to carry. One day after a range session I dropped the KelTec 5.7 NATO pistol into shorts’ cargo pocket and totally forgot about it…discovering it well after having passed thru a prohibited area.
The Rounded PR57 holster is nicely designed to preserve the pistol’s virtues. It is form fitted with the round slide of the pistol and does a great job of covering the trigger. It adds no more bulk to the pistol than is absolutely necessary. It comes with a standard belt clip, but I swapped that out for a tuckable belt hanger. One I had from DeSantis perfectly matched up with the Rounded holster’s trigger guard ledge.
Based upon the arguments I made in “Why You Should Carry and Present Left Handed” (link in the description), I chose the left handed, black “carbon fiber” IWB version.
Seated in my car, it’s easy to draw even with the seat belt buckled.
At the range with a shirt behind it you can see how the pistol clings tight to my waistline. Solid click retention but draws easily.
With care you can reholster, but I prefer to withdraw my holster, insert the pistol, and then reinsert within my waistline. Nice to be fast on the draw. No time limit for reholstering.
Minimal printing even with a tight shirt. That’s why I like the tuckable belt hanger. Drawing from a tucked shirt is not much different than clearing a garment from appendix carry.
KelTec PR57 paired with the Rounded IWB holster combine to create an exceptionally comfortable CCW system. Other pistol and holster manufacturers will have a hard time creating a better solution.
Wny Carry and Present Left Handed
The PR57, being so light and thin, is shockingly easy to carry. One day after a range session I dropped the KelTec 5.7 NATO pistol into shorts’ cargo pocket and totally forgot about it…discovering it well after having passed thru a prohibited area.
The Rounded PR57 holster is nicely designed to preserve the pistol’s virtues. It is form fitted with the round slide of the pistol and does a great job of covering the trigger. It adds no more bulk to the pistol than is absolutely necessary. It comes with a standard belt clip, but I swapped that out for a tuckable belt hanger. One I had from DeSantis perfectly matched up with the Rounded holster’s trigger guard ledge.
Based upon the arguments I made in “Why You Should Carry and Present Left Handed” (link in the description), I chose the left handed, black “carbon fiber” IWB version.
Seated in my car, it’s easy to draw even with the seat belt buckled.
At the range with a shirt behind it you can see how the pistol clings tight to my waistline. Solid click retention but draws easily.
With care you can reholster, but I prefer to withdraw my holster, insert the pistol, and then reinsert within my waistline. Nice to be fast on the draw. No time limit for reholstering.
Minimal printing even with a tight shirt. That’s why I like the tuckable belt hanger. Drawing from a tucked shirt is not much different than clearing a garment from appendix carry.
KelTec PR57 paired with the Rounded IWB holster combine to create an exceptionally comfortable CCW system. Other pistol and holster manufacturers will have a hard time creating a better solution.
Wny Carry and Present Left Handed
The Glock 19 has earned a reputation for being extremely reliable and is known for its bomb proof durability. Unfortunately, with the discontinuance of the current simple striker fire design that means something of a reset requiring Glock to re-earn this reputation. The “V” model will probably maintain the same outward appearance that some will consider evidence of continuing the same reputation. I worry that the injection of political committee think could undermine the Glock’s reliability. But I’m not really that interested in Glocks so I don’t care that much.
For a centerfire civilian CCW pistol I vastly prefer KelTec’s PR57.
The PR57 is 11 ounces lighter than the 19
The PR57 loaded actually weights 5.4 ounces less than an empty G19 (23.7 - 18.3)
The PR57 is about .2” narrower than the Glock 19. Inside the waistband it feels like a much greater difference where The PR57 vanishes and is forgotten. The G19 causes some serious belt deflection and constantly reminds with its heavy presence.
The PR57 has over twice the rounds per ounce as the G19
The PR57 has a much higher grip ratio than the 19. Allowing the PR57 to index for point shooting better than the chunky Glock.
There is virtually no possibility of an accidental magazine disengagement with the PR57. Accidental magazine disengagement with the Glock 19 over a month’s time is a probability. Given the crucial importance of those first 4 shots, better a fixed, internal, high capacity magazine.
With the 19’s weight you get a pretty manageable and easy to shoot 9mm pistol, but not quite the equal of the basically recoilless, rotary barrel, PR57.
I’m sure you could drive a city transit bus over the Glock and still have a functional firearm…might break that ghetto switch, though. The PR57 presumes you’ll refrain from driving over your pistol and favors light weight.
For those who plan on neglecting their firearm, I highly recommend the Glock.
For those who keep their gear clean, lubed, and secured, the PR57 is just too easy to carry and shoot to bother with the chunky 19.
Where does the PR57 fit in my handgun inventory? Well for starters it is the first centerfire pistol to lure me back from my now four year preference for “no discernible difference” 22LR. Highest rounds per size and weight. No accidental magazine disengagement. Super comfortable to carry. Adequate for grizzly. I currently carry the PR57 about 50% of the time. WaltherP22Q 20%, KelTec P17 15%, Ruger LCP II 10%, NAA Mini Revolver 5%.
But if I were forced to choose just one pistol it would either be the KelTec P17 or the Walther P22Q…just based upon the cost of ammo. And with the Galloway Precision +3 mag follower the versatility of the Walther P22Q is awfully appealing. DA/SA for hammer down DA first shot. Hammer blocking safety for MantisX dry fire practice.
But I definitely prefer the PR57 over any other centerfire pistol, including the laudable Glock 19.
For a centerfire civilian CCW pistol I vastly prefer KelTec’s PR57.
The PR57 is 11 ounces lighter than the 19
The PR57 loaded actually weights 5.4 ounces less than an empty G19 (23.7 - 18.3)
The PR57 is about .2” narrower than the Glock 19. Inside the waistband it feels like a much greater difference where The PR57 vanishes and is forgotten. The G19 causes some serious belt deflection and constantly reminds with its heavy presence.
The PR57 has over twice the rounds per ounce as the G19
The PR57 has a much higher grip ratio than the 19. Allowing the PR57 to index for point shooting better than the chunky Glock.
There is virtually no possibility of an accidental magazine disengagement with the PR57. Accidental magazine disengagement with the Glock 19 over a month’s time is a probability. Given the crucial importance of those first 4 shots, better a fixed, internal, high capacity magazine.
With the 19’s weight you get a pretty manageable and easy to shoot 9mm pistol, but not quite the equal of the basically recoilless, rotary barrel, PR57.
I’m sure you could drive a city transit bus over the Glock and still have a functional firearm…might break that ghetto switch, though. The PR57 presumes you’ll refrain from driving over your pistol and favors light weight.
For those who plan on neglecting their firearm, I highly recommend the Glock.
For those who keep their gear clean, lubed, and secured, the PR57 is just too easy to carry and shoot to bother with the chunky 19.
Where does the PR57 fit in my handgun inventory? Well for starters it is the first centerfire pistol to lure me back from my now four year preference for “no discernible difference” 22LR. Highest rounds per size and weight. No accidental magazine disengagement. Super comfortable to carry. Adequate for grizzly. I currently carry the PR57 about 50% of the time. WaltherP22Q 20%, KelTec P17 15%, Ruger LCP II 10%, NAA Mini Revolver 5%.
But if I were forced to choose just one pistol it would either be the KelTec P17 or the Walther P22Q…just based upon the cost of ammo. And with the Galloway Precision +3 mag follower the versatility of the Walther P22Q is awfully appealing. DA/SA for hammer down DA first shot. Hammer blocking safety for MantisX dry fire practice.
But I definitely prefer the PR57 over any other centerfire pistol, including the laudable Glock 19.
Gowutar emailed asking if I’d like to review their RMSc green dot sight, HHC17g. I was going to politely decline the offer, but I decided to see how far “affordable” Chinese optics have advanced thanks to “gain of function” collusion with the American gun culture and western engineers.
The budget friendly reflex sight, popular on Amazon.com, features a solid 6061 aluminum body. The glass is clear and distortion free. The green dot is very crisp. Wyoming’s environment tends toward the reddish brown so I definitely favor green dots over red.
Mounted atop the KelTec PR57, the deck or rear sight notch stands about 1/10” taller than some other optic options, but it is RMSc narrow…the rear portion doesn’t extend beyond the sides of the KelTec 57 NATO pistol or its mounting plate. The reinforced front portion does extend beyond the mount a bit.
I zeroed the optic at home using the Accurize Training Laser and then once at the range, my first two shot group was pretty close…just needed to shift the point of impact to the left.
The windage and elevation adjustment feature 1 MOA tactile and audible clicks. Some optics are mushy feeling making it a challenge to determine if an adjustment has been made. No complaints, love Gowutar’s clicky elevation and windage dials.
Standard shake a wake design is key for achieving the touted 50,000 hours of battery life. Gowutar stats say the 1632 battery is good for 160-50,000 hours. Maybe 50,000 if the pistol is kept locked in a bedside gun safe. But if carried, it’s not going to sleep. CCW?, I’d plan on replacing that battery every six months at a minimum. The battery is side loading so you won’t have to undermine the zero every time you replace the battery.
The operating temperature range from -4f to 140f is a bit limiting for Wyoming winters. Probably good enough for IWB carry, but might run into problems OWB when the high mountain desert drops to -40.
Go Wu Tar, it’s a close anagram of “Go to War” and while I would not consider this a go to war optic, it’s not a bad civilian CCW choice if you avoid frigid climates. Choose Green for arid regions, red for lush.
The budget friendly reflex sight, popular on Amazon.com, features a solid 6061 aluminum body. The glass is clear and distortion free. The green dot is very crisp. Wyoming’s environment tends toward the reddish brown so I definitely favor green dots over red.
Mounted atop the KelTec PR57, the deck or rear sight notch stands about 1/10” taller than some other optic options, but it is RMSc narrow…the rear portion doesn’t extend beyond the sides of the KelTec 57 NATO pistol or its mounting plate. The reinforced front portion does extend beyond the mount a bit.
I zeroed the optic at home using the Accurize Training Laser and then once at the range, my first two shot group was pretty close…just needed to shift the point of impact to the left.
The windage and elevation adjustment feature 1 MOA tactile and audible clicks. Some optics are mushy feeling making it a challenge to determine if an adjustment has been made. No complaints, love Gowutar’s clicky elevation and windage dials.
Standard shake a wake design is key for achieving the touted 50,000 hours of battery life. Gowutar stats say the 1632 battery is good for 160-50,000 hours. Maybe 50,000 if the pistol is kept locked in a bedside gun safe. But if carried, it’s not going to sleep. CCW?, I’d plan on replacing that battery every six months at a minimum. The battery is side loading so you won’t have to undermine the zero every time you replace the battery.
The operating temperature range from -4f to 140f is a bit limiting for Wyoming winters. Probably good enough for IWB carry, but might run into problems OWB when the high mountain desert drops to -40.
Go Wu Tar, it’s a close anagram of “Go to War” and while I would not consider this a go to war optic, it’s not a bad civilian CCW choice if you avoid frigid climates. Choose Green for arid regions, red for lush.
The KelTec PR57 is going on vacation again. Another trip to sunny Florida.
Trigger break no ignition no primer indent
At first I thought it was a bad round or light primer strike and ejected the cartridges. But soon discovered that I was able to pull the trigger again, like a DA with second strike capability, and it fires.
Intermittent issue started just recently when doing footage for long range, 50-200 yards, shooting. Shooting from a rest was when it first happened. With the issue following me when shooting prone. First occurred with a mounted optic. Removed optic and the issue persists.
I have been able to recreate the feel of things with dummy rounds by pressing the slide slightly out of battery, pull the trigger, hammer falls to partially cocked position, let slide go fully into battery, and then still have a functioning "second strike" trigger. But I don't see the slide out of battery in any of my live fire video footage. Nor am I short stroking the trigger.
Disassembled, the trunnion that rotates the barrel seems like it kind of hangs up on the bolt face a bit. I don't recall doing that before, but it’s possible I wasn't looking for it.
I love the features that the PR57 offers. I consider the internal magazine a huge benefit for a civilian CCW pistol. No accidental magazine disengagements. The rounds per size and weight are outstanding. And it’s made in Rock Springs, WY. But traveling out of state twice in six months for multi week Florida flings is unacceptable. Plus she’s squandered several hundreds of rounds dealing with her mood swings. Maybe if I were traveling to Florida with the pistol, we could work things out and rekindle our romance. But at this point I’m returning to my old reliable P17 and flirting with a NEW centerfire mistress.
Trigger break no ignition no primer indent
At first I thought it was a bad round or light primer strike and ejected the cartridges. But soon discovered that I was able to pull the trigger again, like a DA with second strike capability, and it fires.
Intermittent issue started just recently when doing footage for long range, 50-200 yards, shooting. Shooting from a rest was when it first happened. With the issue following me when shooting prone. First occurred with a mounted optic. Removed optic and the issue persists.
I have been able to recreate the feel of things with dummy rounds by pressing the slide slightly out of battery, pull the trigger, hammer falls to partially cocked position, let slide go fully into battery, and then still have a functioning "second strike" trigger. But I don't see the slide out of battery in any of my live fire video footage. Nor am I short stroking the trigger.
Disassembled, the trunnion that rotates the barrel seems like it kind of hangs up on the bolt face a bit. I don't recall doing that before, but it’s possible I wasn't looking for it.
I love the features that the PR57 offers. I consider the internal magazine a huge benefit for a civilian CCW pistol. No accidental magazine disengagements. The rounds per size and weight are outstanding. And it’s made in Rock Springs, WY. But traveling out of state twice in six months for multi week Florida flings is unacceptable. Plus she’s squandered several hundreds of rounds dealing with her mood swings. Maybe if I were traveling to Florida with the pistol, we could work things out and rekindle our romance. But at this point I’m returning to my old reliable P17 and flirting with a NEW centerfire mistress.
About three months ago, I started to test the PR57 at longer ranges. Shifting to 50 yards, I ran into some peculiar trigger issues where the trigger would break, fail to fire, and I had a weird second strike capability which would fire. For the second time, the PR57 went back to KelTec for repair. I received the pistol back in about two weeks with a note that they “updated the extractor spring and barrel lock plunger”. “Replaced hammer block spring and trigger bar”. Not sure why or what led to the issue.
With improved weather, I took the PR57 and the RXM out to the range for some “long range” shooting. For the past month I’ve been doing daily MantisX drills with the RXM, over 1,000 dry fires and earning scores that top those of any other pistol. So I went out to the range really expecting to see the RXM do as well or better than the PR57. And thinking that maybe the PR57 would break again. And get culled.
I started at 25 yards shooting roll over prone. I fired five rounds with the PR57 and shot a 5.75 MOA group. With the RXM, I shot 14.34 MOA. Moving to 50 yards I shot a 4.08 MOA group with the PR57. And an abysmal 36.25 MOA group with the RXM. Moving to 100 yards, I shot a 5.25 MOA group with the PR57. I didn’t bother with the RXM.
My aiming point was the V at all distances. Zeroed at 25 yards this thing is dead on out to 100 yards. Just over 5 MOA with the KelTec PR57. I was stunned. With a slight right correction to the optic’s zero, 14 out of the 15 shots would be in the V. I went into this thinking that at 100 yards, I’d be thrilled with the majority of my shots being fives with just a few fours. And thinking that I’d do best with the RXM. And that my conclusion would be that after making two trips to KelTec for repair the PR57 would get culled.
Newfound respect, I’m thinking the thin and lightweight PR57 could serve as a CCW and a deer pistol. But can it avoid another repair trip? Can I learn how to avoid problems with preventative maintenance? Can I learn how to repair the pistol myself? AmbGun is not done with the PR57. More to come.
With improved weather, I took the PR57 and the RXM out to the range for some “long range” shooting. For the past month I’ve been doing daily MantisX drills with the RXM, over 1,000 dry fires and earning scores that top those of any other pistol. So I went out to the range really expecting to see the RXM do as well or better than the PR57. And thinking that maybe the PR57 would break again. And get culled.
I started at 25 yards shooting roll over prone. I fired five rounds with the PR57 and shot a 5.75 MOA group. With the RXM, I shot 14.34 MOA. Moving to 50 yards I shot a 4.08 MOA group with the PR57. And an abysmal 36.25 MOA group with the RXM. Moving to 100 yards, I shot a 5.25 MOA group with the PR57. I didn’t bother with the RXM.
My aiming point was the V at all distances. Zeroed at 25 yards this thing is dead on out to 100 yards. Just over 5 MOA with the KelTec PR57. I was stunned. With a slight right correction to the optic’s zero, 14 out of the 15 shots would be in the V. I went into this thinking that at 100 yards, I’d be thrilled with the majority of my shots being fives with just a few fours. And thinking that I’d do best with the RXM. And that my conclusion would be that after making two trips to KelTec for repair the PR57 would get culled.
Newfound respect, I’m thinking the thin and lightweight PR57 could serve as a CCW and a deer pistol. But can it avoid another repair trip? Can I learn how to avoid problems with preventative maintenance? Can I learn how to repair the pistol myself? AmbGun is not done with the PR57. More to come.
How good is The KelTec PR57 trigger?
Like the rest of the pistol, the PR57 trigger press is pretty unique. It is certainly not like a single action 1911. Advertised as a double action trigger it is more like your typical striker fired trigger in that the hammer starts from a semi cocked position and the trigger press completes the hammer cocking process. So there is no second strike capability.
Unlike most striker fired pistols it does not have a striker block plunger to disengage during the process. Most striker fired pistols use a nub on the trigger bar to depress the striker block that creates much of the grittiness of those pistols.
The trigger press is very smooth and almost feels like the same weight throughout the long press. I think maybe 4 pounds and then hitting a barely discernible 4.25 pound “wall”. Long, smooth pull sums it up nicely. There is a “fake” reset click on releasing the trigger, but the real reset does not occur until the trigger is pretty much fully released. So I don’t plan on “working the reset” during follow up shots.
During my “long range” testing the long smooth trigger press was helpful in getting 5 MOA results out to 100 yards. In a high stress self defense situation where fine motor skills are degraded, I would not want to try to stage on that nearly imperceptible wall and rely instead on a Rex Applegate Point shooting, convulsive grip. The high grip ratio helps with indexing for point shooting and, I believe, keeps the muzzle on target when using the Applegate convulsive grip firing technique.
The PR57 trigger is definitely different, but mostly in a good way. Combined with the highest rounds per size and weight on AmbGun’s spreadsheet, no possibility of an accidental magazine disengagement undermining the critical first shots, and the flat shooting 5.7NATO cartridge; the PR57 has enormous potential.
Like the rest of the pistol, the PR57 trigger press is pretty unique. It is certainly not like a single action 1911. Advertised as a double action trigger it is more like your typical striker fired trigger in that the hammer starts from a semi cocked position and the trigger press completes the hammer cocking process. So there is no second strike capability.
Unlike most striker fired pistols it does not have a striker block plunger to disengage during the process. Most striker fired pistols use a nub on the trigger bar to depress the striker block that creates much of the grittiness of those pistols.
The trigger press is very smooth and almost feels like the same weight throughout the long press. I think maybe 4 pounds and then hitting a barely discernible 4.25 pound “wall”. Long, smooth pull sums it up nicely. There is a “fake” reset click on releasing the trigger, but the real reset does not occur until the trigger is pretty much fully released. So I don’t plan on “working the reset” during follow up shots.
During my “long range” testing the long smooth trigger press was helpful in getting 5 MOA results out to 100 yards. In a high stress self defense situation where fine motor skills are degraded, I would not want to try to stage on that nearly imperceptible wall and rely instead on a Rex Applegate Point shooting, convulsive grip. The high grip ratio helps with indexing for point shooting and, I believe, keeps the muzzle on target when using the Applegate convulsive grip firing technique.
The PR57 trigger is definitely different, but mostly in a good way. Combined with the highest rounds per size and weight on AmbGun’s spreadsheet, no possibility of an accidental magazine disengagement undermining the critical first shots, and the flat shooting 5.7NATO cartridge; the PR57 has enormous potential.
PR57 Tops the AmbGun Rounds per Size and Weight Spreadsheet
PR57 Tops the AmbGun Rounds per Size and Weight Spreadsheet
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