•Timeline discrepancy_conversation w/ Mayor & City Clerk
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Conversation with Mayor Welsch regarding the signing of his contract by Mr. Walker on July 8th - 4 days prior to the vote to offer the contract to Mr. Walker - and with the City Clerk regarding Robert's Rules of Order (Parliamentary Procedure) and the use of "consensus"...
Subject: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
From: Paulette Carr
Date: July 24, 2010 1:07:04 AM CDT
To: mayor@ucitymo.org
Cc: jpumm@ucitymo.org
July 24, 2010
To: Mayor Shelley Welsch
From: Paulette Carr
Re: Questions about the hiring of the New City Manager
Dear Mayor Welsch:
I have received a recounting of the motions and votes on June 28th and July 12th (as required by law), as well as a signed contract between the City of University City and Lehman Walker for the position of city manager from Ms. Pumm(see below). Ms. Pumm's recounting (as the city clerk and the official keeper of the records) reveals that you only first voted to offer the contract to Mr. Walker on the 12th, but as you can see he had it in his possession and signed it on July 8th - even if you, as the legal representative for the City and the Council, did not sign until the 12th. There is clearly something missing or demanding explanation: If the council voted to offer the proposed contract (essentially the same one that Feier had but for more money) to Mr. Walker on the 12th, but he had it in his possession prior to that - Ms. Pumm's recounting of the vote does not reflect this, and is inaccurate. By law, any votes are public information, but I cannot find the vote that would put the final contract in Mr. Walker's hand prior to July 12, 2010. The timeline does not seem to follow. Can you please explain this to me? I am respectfully soliciting a response from you.
Sincerely,
Paulette
Paulette Carr
University City, MO 63130
On Jul 19, 2010, at 09:08 AM, Joyce Pumm wrote:
Ms. Carr:
Executive minutes are not public documents unless the Council votes on something or if a legal matter that the meeting was closed for has been settled. Any votes taken at the executive meetings are public. Two of the three meetings you requested did have a Roll Call vote which I supplied to you. The third Executive meeting you requested did not have a Roll Call vote for anything.
Joyce Pumm
City Clerk
University City
From: Paulette Carr
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 12:23 PM
To: Joyce Pumm
Cc: Lynn Ricci; michael glickert; Jan Adams
Subject: Re: Sunshine request for minutes of closed meetings Fwd: FYI Fwd: NEW CITY MANAGER FOR UNIVERSITY CITY
Ms. Pumm,
Thank you for sending the information below. What about information from the third meeting - July 6th? Why have you omitted information from that meeting? - Please clearly state your reasons.
I understand the reason for not sending the open documents, but why are you unable to provide the minutes with proper redaction as you did for the closed session on April 12, 2010? Simply reporting the votes does not make it official information. I am requesting a copy of the official minutes, properly redacted, for the three meetings listed below.
Thank you for your assistance.
Sincerely,
Paulette Carr
On Jul 16, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Joyce Pumm wrote:
Ms. Carr:
Executive minutes are not public documents. If a vote was taken or litigation is finalized, that information is public. Therefore I am providing you with votes taken in two of the meetings you requested minutes from.
June 28, 2010 Executive Session
Mr. Glickert talked of Mr. Lehman Walker’s possible interest in being University City’s City Manager and moved to have Council explore further, with Mayor Welsch having a discussion with Mr. Lehman and to set up an interview if he was interested.
Roll Call vote was:
AYES: Mr. Kraft, Mr. Glickert, Ms. Ricci, Mr. Sharpe and Mayor Welsch
NAYS: Mr. Crow and Mr. Price
Motion passed.
July 12, 2010 Executive Session
Mr. Glickert moved to offer the proposed contract to Lehman Walker for the position of City Manager of University City and was seconded by Ms. Ricci.
Roll Call vote was:
AYES: Mr. Price, Ms. Ricci, Mr. Sharpe, Mr. Glickert, Mr. Kraft, and Mayor Welsch
NAYS: Mr. Crow
Motion passed.
Thank you
Joyce Pumm
City Clerk
From: Mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: RE: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
Date: August 2, 2010 1:44:52 PM CDT
To: Paulette Carr
Cc: jpumm@ucitymo.org
Thank you for your e-mail.
Sorry for the delay in responding to you. I have been out of town and just returned to the office this morning.
The City Council could not sign a contract without knowing that the second party had approved the provisions of the contract. As is proper and regular in the signing of employment contracts, when the parties are in difference cities, one party signs the contract prior to the other. That happened in this case. Mr. Walker signed the contract and sent it back to University City. I received it on July 9th. I did not sign it until the Council had voted to approve it on July 12th. That vote been made public. I believe you have received the minutes of that meeting where the six-to-one vote in favor of the contract was noted.
Thank you.
Mayor Shelley Welsch
City of University City
6801 Delmar Boulevard
University City, MO 63130-3104
W: 314-505-8606
H: 314-727-6852
Cell: 314-226-3813
E-mail: mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: Re: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
From: Paulette Carr
Date: August 3, 2010 9:02:21 AM CDT
To: Mayor@ucitymo.org
Mayor Welsch,
Thank you for responding, but I believe that you did not address my question: I asked when the vote had been taken to put the contract in Mr. Walker's hand? - When prior to July 12th was there a vote that allowed the city to present a contract to Mr. Walker? As you can see by the City Clerk's recounting the offer was voted upon on the 12th - not before:
June 28, 2010 Executive Session
Mr. Glickert talked of Mr. Lehman Walker’s possible interest in being University City’s City Manager and moved to have Council explore further, with Mayor Welsch having a discussion with Mr. Lehman and to set up an interview if he was interested. Ms. Ricci seconded the motion.
Roll Call vote was:
AYES: Mr. Kraft, Mr. Glickert, Ms. Ricci, Mr. Sharpe and Mayor Welsch
NAYS: Mr. Crow and Mr. Price
Motion passed.
July 12, 2010 Executive Session
Mr. Glickert moved to offer the proposed contract to Lehman Walker for the position of City Manager of University City and was seconded by Ms. Ricci.
Roll Call vote was:
AYES: Mr. Price, Ms. Ricci, Mr. Sharpe, Mr. Glickert, Mr. Kraft, and Mayor Welsch
NAYS: Mr. Crow
Motion passed.
There is an implied agreement in signing an employment contract... as I am sure that you are aware, even before the other party has signed. We are not talking verbal agreement... where one party says "yes, the terms are acceptable, please draw up the contract." - but rather "here is the contract that we will be executing once all parties have signed"... there is not a "maybe" left by the time the contract has arrived for the employee to sign, although it is true that the contract is not in effect until all parties have signed.
It appears that you voted to offer the contract for the position of City Manger to Mr. Walker on July 12th (by the City Clerk's recount), not have council sign off on a contract that had already been offered and signed by him. As you are aware, the one dissenting vote came from Mr. Crow who has publicly stated that he did NOT know that Mr. Walker had been given a contract to sign prior to the the April 12th vote. So perhaps I was unclear in my question: Did the council entire council have information that Mr. Walker had signed the contract offered prior to the July 12th vote?... or as the City Clerk has provided, did the council first vote "to offer the proposed contract to Mr. Walker?" If, as the City Clerk maintains the vote was to offer the proposed contract to Mr. Walker, then he should not have signed prior to the vote to offer. Your answer really goes to the accuracy of the City Clerk's records.
Respectfully yours,
Paulette Carr
From: Mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: RE: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
Date: August 3, 2010 10:41:46 AM CDT
To: Paulette Carr
Ms. Carr,
The information you have been given by Mr. Crow is incorrect. In a closed session on July 6th the Council provided me with the authority to come to terms with Mr. Walker, with the understanding that a contract would be finalized prior to our July 12th session. The discussions in our closed sessions are private, as you know. There was no vote to make public from our July 6th meeting.
Thank you.
Mayor Shelley Welsch
City of University City
6801 Delmar Boulevard
University City, MO 63130-3104
W: 314-505-8606
H: 314-727-6852
Cell: 314-226-3813
E-mail: mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: Re: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
From: Paulette Carr
Date: August 3, 2010 11:10:06 AM CDT
To: Mayor@ucitymo.orgMayor Welsch,
Mayor Welsch,
Thank you for your explanation, but this poses a question: Did the council provide you with authority "to come to terms with Mr. Walker, with the understanding that a contract would be finalized prior to our July 12th session" by vote? or by some other mechanism? - and if some other mechanism can you please clarify?
I cannot discount Mr. Crow's assertion based on just your telling me that "the information that Mr. Crow provided is incorrect" unless I have some other data. I understand that the minutes or information from closed session can be made available once the City Manager was hired.
Thank you,
Paulette Carr, PhD
From: Mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: RE: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
Date: August 3, 2010 11:15:25 AM CDT
To: Paulette Carr
Paulette,
There was no vote at our July 6th meeting that would be made public. The authority related to Mr. Walker’s contract was provided to me by a consensus of the Council.
According to the Missouri Sunshine Law, closed session discussions remain closed unless there is a vote taken on any subject. In that case, only the subject to be voted upon, a motion to vote, the second and the final vote become public.
Thank you.
Mayor Shelley Welsch
City of University City
6801 Delmar Boulevard
University City, MO 63130-3104
W: 314-505-8606
H: 314-727-6852
Cell: 314-226-3813
E-mail: mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: Re: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
From: Paulette Carr
Date: August 3, 2010 11:31:19 AM CDT
To: Mayor@ucitymo.org
Shelley,
Thank you for responding so quickly. The mechanism that you describe is consensus (?) of Council rather than a vote of Council in which you were legally granted the authority by the Council "to come to terms with Mr. Walker, with the understanding that a contract would be finalized prior to our July 12th session"? - Can you please define what you mean by consensus - since there was no vote.
Thank you,
Paulette Carr, PhD
From: Mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: RE: Questions about the Hiring of the New City Manager
Date: August 3, 2010 2:01:30 PM CDT
To: Paulette Carr
Paulette,
A consensus is a general agreement among members of a group on how to move forward, a collective opinion, a general accord. A consensus is reached. A formal vote is not taken.
Mayor Shelley Welsch
City of University City
6801 Delmar Boulevard
University City, MO 63130-3104
W: 314-505-8606
H: 314-727-6852
Cell: 314-226-3813
E-mail: mayor@ucitymo.org
Subject: Question concerning Robert's Rules of Order
From: Paulette Carr
Date: August 4, 2010 7:38:10 AM CDT
To: jpumm@ucitymo.org
Ms. Pumm,
Since you are the Parliamentarian, can you please tell me where in Robert's Rules of Order, as Revised, one would find the use of consensus as opposed to a vote process (making a motion, seconding it, discussion, and vote)? Is the word consensus mentioned in Robert's Rules of order, and if so under what circumstances and in what section of Robert's Rules?
Thank you for your assistance.
Sincerely,
Paulette Carr, PhD
From: jpumm@ucitymo.org
Subject: RE: Question concerning Robert's Rules of Order
Date: August 6, 2010 3:51:43 PM CDT
To: Paulette Carr
Ms. Carr
Robert’s Rules of Order does not have any defined rule for what is consensus or its use. In absence of a defined rule, Council can chose the process they want and did so by consensus. The meaning of consensus in Webster’s Dictionary, states “to agree, collective opinion, general accord: agreement.”
Joyce Pumm
City Clerk
Subject: Corrected...Re: Question concerning Robert's Rules of Order
From: Paulette Carr
Date: August 7, 2010 9:23:11 AM CDT
To: jpumm@ucitymo.org
Dear Ms. Pumm,
The following is my corrected request for further information regarding Robert's Rules of Order. Please disregard the earlier email.
I was surprised and confused by your answer to my questions regarding Robert's Rules of Order (as revised) and the use of consensus. I did NOT request that you to weigh in on the use of consensus by the council - I only asked if the mechanism of decision making - "consensus" - was to be found in Parliamentary Procedure (Robert's Rules) and if so where and how it was defined.
If it is neither defined nor mentioned in Robert's Rules (Parliamentary Procedure) as you did tell me in your answer, then it is not a mechanism for decision making if a governing body is using Robert's Rules to guide their proceedings.... and would only be employed if another type of rules were specified to guide the proceedings of a given body. I am seeking information and clarification.
So, let me make it easier for you to simply answer my questions as the Parliamentarian and City Clerk (please answer yes or no):
1) The use of consensus for decision making is not mentioned or defined in Robert's Rules of Order. Is this correct?
2) There is a mechanism for making decisions in Robert's Rules of Order, and that mechanism is a vote. Is this correct?
3) It is required by law that a vote is to be made public. Is that correct?
4) If consensus (general accord) is employed to make a decision, it is not required by law to be made public. Is this correct?
5) There are no formal (written) rules for decision by consensus when used by this Council, so that the consensus may be done by polling in or outside of a meeting... but there is no recorded vote. Is this correct?
6) "Consensus" (as you have kindly provided the definition from Webster's Dictionary, "general accord: agreement") can be achieved using effective debate and Parliamentary Procedure (a vote). Is this correct?
7) Do the Rules of Order and Procedure of the Council of University City,Adopted October 9, 2006 (hereafter referred to as Council Rules) specify the use of Robert's Rules as opposed to any other decision-making mechanism? ( in Rule 5: "Except as otherwise provided by the Charter, or by these rules, the proceedings of the Council shall be guided by Robert's Rules of Order, as Revised." ) ... yes or no?
8) As currently written and passed, the Council Rules and the Charter do not contain reference to the use of or guidance by any decision making system other than Robert's Rules of Order as Revised. Is this correct?
Thank you for prompt assistance and answers to my questions.
Sincerely,
Paulette Carr, PhD
From: jpumm@ucitymo.org
Subject: RE: Corrected...Re: Question concerning Robert's Rules of Order
Date: August 9, 2010 12:53:06 PM CDT
To: Paulette Carr
Ms. Carr
I have previously supplied you with the information I have.
Sincerely yours
Joyce Pumm
City Clerk
Subject: Re: Corrected...Re: Question concerning Robert's Rules of Order
From: Paulette Carr
Date: August 9, 2010 5:48:07 PM CDT
To: jpumm@ucitymo.org
Ms. Pumm,
Are you refusing to answer the questions that I posed to you in my last email?
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Paulette Carr
Question: Is the use of "consensus" - which is not provided for in the proceedings of University City council meetings - by Council Rules or the Charter - a way to get around the Sunshine Law? ... no vote... no legal requirement to report - and no transparency or accountability!
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• UCityCitizen.org • Paulette Carr, Ward 2 Councilmember, City of University City • University City, Missouri 63130 •