One idea is to enlist help from your husband: tell him how you feel you have nothing left at the end of the day, but that you want to have something left for him. Believe me, he wants to help in this! Perhaps you might be able to hire someone to watch your children while you have a nap, or do something else that will refresh you. I have sometimes had a nap after dinner while my husband took care of the children so that I could have something to give my husband when my children went to bed.

This vein is for anyone (is there anyone?) who got divorced after discovering later in life, in the throes of an otherwise happy, mid-length marriage filled with equitable coparenting of still-small people and a satisfying sex life, that they were queer: how did you make the choice to give up one happiness for another, or one love for another? Were you able to do so without bitterness or spite entering the picture? Did you hang in there an NOT get divorced while experimenting with ENM [ethical non-monogamy] or anything first? Please help, lol.


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I'm so glad we're having this conversation! I think so much of the discussion re: divorce + kids is related to the potentially negative impacts on children, which I get, but there are also potential positives as well. My parents had a terrible marriage and my father was also the worst but my mom never considered leaving because she was raised to believe that was something that religious people didn't do. I remember as soon as I learned about divorce (thanks Babysitter's Club!) thinking that there was this miraculous option that my mom had but she would never talk about? I expressed to her many times in high school and college that I would take dramatically reduced circumstances with her and my sister any day over persisting in the environment my dad created, but without something like abuse or infidelity to point to, it was like her brain couldn't fathom it. . They finally did divorce almost 30 years of marriage when she learned that there actually had been infidelity, and after the devastation it was like a whole new world opened for her. But by then my sister and I were both out of the house and I couldn't help thinking how different things might have been for us if my mom had left sooner. She was definitely raised to believe that marriage = stability = good for kids, but never examined whether that was actually true in our house. Obviously this is likely more straightforward when one person in the marriage is clearly toxic, but I just wanted to put out there that sometimes! Divorce is something that kids might welcome with open arms.

The best time to move on is before the children have no positive role models left to help them understand relationships. Leave before there is nothing left to leave. Life is fleeting and you have little human beings who are depending on you to show them the good stuff that is possible when people are supportive and loving. You are signaling this isn\u2019t happening for you despite your efforts and while therapy isn\u2019t the answer for everyone, a blanket refusal to try it is a strong indicator that change is not likely.

My kids now see 2 parents who love and adore them and who really like and respect each other, which wasn\u2019t quite the case while we were married. I know our situation is rare, but it works for us. I think there is no one way to define what a family looks like and a family doesn\u2019t necessarily all have to live in the same house. So many people look at divorce as an ending: the end of a marriage, of course, but also the end of a family. For me, I look at our divorce as the beginning of building a stronger and more loving family. It\u2019s definitely not easy all the time, but totally worth it.

You can be queer and stay in your marriage as is or you can be queer in an ENM relationship or you can be queer and be divorced and single and thriving or you can be queer and find a love beyond anything you thought existed with a new partner. Where and how can you grow and thrive as the truest and best version of yourself? That question, by the way, extends to all the things that make you YOU. Are you more outspoken than you were when you met your current partner? Have your values shifted or solidified? Do you now love the parts of yourself that the world has told you to hate since you were small? If you\u2019re trying to spread your wings, does your marriage make you feel cramped or does it give you infinite space to grow into the person you were meant to be? And if it doesn\u2019t give you space, is your partner open to fixing that, or do you have to leave to fly?

JAGD: I re-read Marge Piercy\u2019s \u201CTo Have Without Holding\u201D over and over and over again. I have to remind myself that I am learning to love differently every day, that there was no specific date on which the unraveling began and that there will not be an end date at which the unraveling is finished. On the more practical side, if you\u2019ve read Alison Gopnik\u2019s The Gardener and the Carpenter (on parenting approaches) it really helped me when I realized that I was being a gardener when I parented but was a total carpenter as I tried to help myself recover/move on. Once I saw that project as gardening, it felt easier. I literally use these words with my kids to remind us all that we are growing our lives every day.

DO:  I don\u2019t think there\u2019s an exact timetable for grief, but I promise you, there will be a day when you will stop and realize that the pain that was acute and ever-present is gone. And before that happens, you get glimmers. For me it was when the kids and I started building our own traditions, especially around holidays, and really choosing to do things based on what we wanted, not burdened by expectations around what we \u201Cshould\u201D do.

I was single with 5 children many years. Pay tithing first, then watch as the Lord opens up ways in your mind to stretch what you have. Plus, there is nothing as lovely as feeling the peace of obedience. Always pay tithing first.

This may be very "musical theatre minded" of me, but this quote just makes me think of the finale of "Pippin," where he's tried everything in the whole world to feel fulfilled/inspired (love, sex, war, work, etc.), and in the end the only thing left for him to do is set himself on fire. What a great fucking musical.


Also: I tried to check your blog yesterday from England, but the server I was working off of told me it was restricted, due to the fact that it contained "High Profile Pornography." 


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GeorgeW, sir, to you off goes my hat. Seriously: I am profoundly affected today by having this question answered. I, and a grateful nation (of at least 4/5 people) salute you.


Also: I kind of figured as much at this point, what with how dead-end my (and others') searches have been. But now I'm looking up "Q," and will likely become a huge fan. Please tell them I said you're owed a commission.


Now there's nothing left to lose! Everyone: Set yourselves afire!

Wow i didnt know others would be looking for meaning in the same quote. been one of my favourite lines in music for a long time. to me it feels like the christians who burnt heretics at the stake, and when youre so zealous and you end up burning everything around you the only thing left is you, you dont really have a choice but to set yourself on fire. almost like he without sin casting the first stone kinda quote. what do u think?

agreed. I am a painter and i'm always on the quest for perfection - the perfect picture. but i know if i found it i would have nothing left to do, yet i must remain on the quest. For there is nothing else that satisfies.

I was thinking along the same lines as Lewis. I always understood the opening line to be a reminder that, if we are unhappy with our circumstances, we cannot constantly blame our surroundings. At some point ("when there's nothing left to burn"), we need to look inwards and acknowledge we are responsible for our experiences (accept the blame and "set ourselves on fire"). 


I think this interpretation might even fit in with the story line of the song. where a girl could not admit her love - and then finds herself nearly forgotten by her former lover many years later. She can only blame herself for the situation.


I also love Lea Maria's interpretation. Am incredibly impressed the dialogue over such a simple line has lived on for so many years(!) since the release of this Stars' song. I would have never guessed the band (or the singer's father) originally authored this quote. True art.

Here's an odd one for you. I had never heard the song by The Stars, nor come across this quote anywhere else (I recently saw it as a tattoo on someone's back in a YouTube video - search "James Frehn's Wicked Game"), but nonetheless, I said something very similar toward the end of the Temple Burn at Burning Man in 2007.


The burning of the Temple takes place on the final day, Sunday, of Burning Man, ostensibly for some, marking the close of the event; at the very least, in spirit for virtually all others in attendance.


We were solemnly sitting on the dusty playa, watching the embers wane, when an overwhelming feeling swelled within me. I've since struggled to put the feeling into words; "pure joy" or "ultimate bliss" are the closest I've come to doing so. The feeling steadily rose within, and it soon felt as though the very feeling itself had physically manifested and was radiating outward, from my every pore. 


Contrary to my struggle to find adequate words for the feeling, the physical sensation it created was immediately apparent. I stood, stoic for a short moment, looked around at the faces surrounding me, wildly agaze at the receding flames of the Temple, raised my arms high and screamed to my capacity, "There's nothing more to burn! So let's burn ourselves!!"


The crowd of my fellow burners roared in answer to my call. I was compelled to begin dancing in my spot, my arms waving and weaving frantically over my head, as that of flames of a fire licking the starry sky above. Others began to rise from the dry lakebed of Black Rock City, equally compelled to dance, with arms raised and rocking to the unheard beat of the fire that was burning within us all. An audible beat soon rose with the crowd, courtesy of a nearby artcar, blasting a perfect, bassful accompaniment that fueled the fiery frenzy growing around me.


Seemingly hundreds of us continued to dance, continued to flame, well into the night. It was a night I shall never forget; it was the night I was burned alive, and lived to rejoice it. 2351a5e196

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