Episode Transcript

This has been automatically generated, please forgive any mistakes.

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[Music]

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i think it's time we blow this scene

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get everybody and stuff together okay

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[Music]

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three

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[Music]

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so

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[Music]

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do

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this episode on the culture quest i go

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through some philosophical thought

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experiments in

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tavern talk with varying degrees of

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success before

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the main discussion of cowboy bebop a

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japanese animated series

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and then to close out the episode anon

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will introduce next week's topic

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a transformers comic book the last stand

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of the wreckers

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the culture quest

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we are about humble adventurers and now

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we carry that weight

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with me as always our peter hello

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and barrio hello and i am inanna

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thank you the listeners at home for

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taking part in our noble quest oh wait

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wait sorry

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um sorry no i've i've left um something

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in the fridge

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actually no don't worry i'll get it

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[Laughter]

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today we're going to discuss cowboy

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bebop an anime tv show that

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not unlike other things we've done in

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the past combines

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sci-fi and space genres with cowboys and

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westerns

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we'll get to that in a minute and as

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usual before we do that

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we always enjoy a bit of tavern talk but

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before we

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even do that we want to quickly sort of

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announce that the code request is now

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part

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of the all the people network all the

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people network

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is a network of indie podcasts that

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features shows

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that touch many different subjects by

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people from all around the world

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it's still very small at the moment it

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consists of six podcasts including

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us and all of these podcasts are made by

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independent creators

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just like us being a part of the the

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network will create opportunities to

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collaborate on stuff

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with like-minded people as we already

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have a few of our network mates have

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already donated their voices

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to help and create the intro bit of our

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jurassic park episode

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we hope to do things like that again and

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maybe swap segments with other podcasts

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maybe guests on each other's podcasts we

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have a few plans for other interesting

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things to do together in the future

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and other than collaborating and

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supporting each other

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joining this network will probably not

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affect this podcast like the quest will

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go

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uninterrupted um so let me tell you a

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line or two about each of the podcasts

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that are part of all the people network

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the first one

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is all the people you should know

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podcast by josh in oregon

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in usa oregon oregon or oregon

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arrogant man by josh in oregon usa

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um his podcast is a history podcast that

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discusses

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the lesser known historical figures and

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if you check it out feel free to start

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with the episode in which i was a guest

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then we have the assorted goods podcast

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by dan from canada

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dan discusses and analyzes world events

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he's recently done

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an amazing episode about amazon and jeff

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bezos which i totally recommend i second

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that then we have the controller

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disconnected podcast by matt from brazil

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matt mainly discusses anything video

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games related in his podcast

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then there's the happy hour gets weird

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by cassie and tiff

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from california they discuss paranormal

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stuff true crime

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cold sex and they do all that while

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drinking delicious cocktails

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and then there's the of the record

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podcast in which mike

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brandon alex and kwan discuss anything

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from family and culture

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to politics and mental health they've

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recently had a discussion about the

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washington football team

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name change that is going on at the

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moment that i found to be

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very informative and then there's a

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culture quest

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which just might be the best of the

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bunch it's supposed to be really deep

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riveting and enlightening and also the

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hosts are really cool

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and really good looking hell yeah

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check out the network at

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allthepeoplenetwork.com or find us on

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instagram or twitter

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i'll put the links in the show notes and

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if you see something there that makes

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you think oh my mom would find this

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interesting or man my best friend was

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looking for a podcast like this one

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or anything like that then spread the

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word and now

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it is high time for some tavern talk

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[Music]

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so today i thought uh i don't know if

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it's super cultural but

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doesn't need to be it's tavern talk i

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thought i'd introduce five

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thought experiments in philosophy so a

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thought experiment or i think albert

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einstein called it a

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gedanken experiment is basically where

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you invent hypothetical circumstances

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or more simplified versions of reality

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but you change some

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some characteristic of that reality and

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you try to

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invoke an intuition an intuition is just

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like a feeling that something

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should follow so for instance like a

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thought experiment is usually used in

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philosophy to prove

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your argument and you can do that by

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doing a reduction to absurdity or

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something

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for the opposing argument or you can um

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it's basically a way that you can make

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transparent

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something that wouldn't be so

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transparent in today's circumstances but

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if you sort of

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bring out the variables then you can see

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why it's true

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and um the ones i've thought of today uh

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there's a couple

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classics there's a couple uh new ones to

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me there's a few

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well i'm doing five but there there's a

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bit of a range

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so i think this is going to be an

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experiment let's just start and see how

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it goes

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so i said this five if there's less than

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five when you listen to it you know i

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fucked up

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i'll start with a sort of a traditional

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one

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to get us started all right so this one

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is by

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john cell and cell asks you

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to imagine yourself as an english

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speaker

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you're a monolingual english speaker so

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you don't speak any other languages

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you're locked in a room and you're given

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a large batch of chinese writing

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and you get a second batch of chinese

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script

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and you also get a set of rules but

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that's in english

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and for correlating the second batch

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with the first batch

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both in chinese you have to use the

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english translation to basically

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use an algorithmic process to match the

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second batch to the first batch

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now the rules correlate one set of

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formal symbols with another set of

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formal symbols

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formal meanings that you can identify

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the symbols entirely by their shapes

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so basically the chinese writing you

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don't no one actually tells you what it

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means

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they're just shapes on a page now the

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people giving you the

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symbols called the first batch of script

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which is a data structure with natural

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language processing applications

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they call the second batch a story and

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they call the third batch

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questions so the symbols you give back

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they call answers to questions and the

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set of rules

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are in english of course they call that

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the program so you yourself

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know none of this simplified is

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there's a bunch of chinese coming in and

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there's a bunch of chinese coming out

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you have instructions to tell you when

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something comes in

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how to arrange the letters to produce

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something

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and then you put it out right and you're

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following the instructions and you're

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getting good

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you're getting fast and you're you're

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efficient you feel

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like you start to recognize the

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characters you go i remember this one

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this squiggly one

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and you're you're just beating your

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times it's going great right

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but the problem is right to the outside

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observer

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you're speaking chinese so they're

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putting out a question for you and

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you're giving them an answer

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but you don't you don't really

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understand the chinese

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you have inputs and outputs that are

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indistinguishable

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from a native chinese speaker but you

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will never be able to recognize a single

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character that you see

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for its meaning right so basically john

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cell

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used this to say that computers

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or strong ai can never actually

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understand something so when you give

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google translate i want to go to the

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shopping center or something and it

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outputs that in chinese it can never

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understand it so

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even if you conscious person are in the

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brain of this

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being or whatever it is john cell is

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basically saying

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you'll never be able to understand

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anything as a computer so that was his

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argument so he's using this

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thought experiment to say you'll never

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be able to have anything more than just

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a process that's really interesting it's

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like you can

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input anything into google translate and

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it'll translate it

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to any language and back to us it'll be

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a perfect translation

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or something close to that but nowhere

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in the process

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does the computer know what it's what's

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the data it's working with

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yeah that's right so i think it it's

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pretty transparent when it's in a

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computer

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just like your surface pro but if we

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start to build robots that have

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limbs and then those those robots with

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limbs sort of

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start to talk to us and they learn from

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us as well

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because there's nothing that could

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prevent this from building on its

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on its algorithm it's basically just

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trying to say like no matter how

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realistic they can get

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there's there's never going to be an

0:10:09.040,0:10:11.839

understanding you can't get semantics

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from syntax

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so in what situation would you use this

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argument

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it was basically made again it was made

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in the 80s and it was made against

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the argument that strong ai would

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actually be able to understand you

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so if you had like an ai assistant that

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was following you around

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it started to know you knew how you

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liked your coffee so

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say we we substitute chinese for

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feelings so say you're feeling bad

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and you come into the room you have some

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external signs that

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you're not feeling great but they're

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minimal they're quite subtle

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even if this ai robot could say oh hey

0:10:46.640,0:10:49.600

peter

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what's going on did you have a bad day

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offers you like your favorite sort of

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beverage or something

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you can never actually understand

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what you're going through it's just

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running the algorithm that's basically

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all it's trying to say

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i i guess it's something that is a bit

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more intuitive when you're

0:11:03.360,0:11:06.640

you also talk about conscious right like

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can you

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know something if you're not conscious

0:11:08.880,0:11:12.560

about it i was trying to avoid it

0:11:10.480,0:11:14.880

because that is another thing as well if

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because my my opinion would be if you're

0:11:14.880,0:11:17.360

not conscious you wouldn't be able to

0:11:16.160,0:11:19.760

understand it yeah but let's

0:11:17.360,0:11:20.880

send like that you are in a room and you

0:11:19.760,0:11:22.240

are translating

0:11:20.880,0:11:24.399

or maybe not translating but

0:11:22.240,0:11:26.800

manipulating data in chinese

0:11:24.399,0:11:27.519

then you are conscious to it but yeah

0:11:26.800,0:11:29.040

that's true

0:11:27.519,0:11:30.800

nothing that's true you would be

0:11:29.040,0:11:32.000

conscious that you would be conscious

0:11:30.800,0:11:33.920

but you would just never

0:11:32.000,0:11:35.680

understand what you're doing as a

0:11:33.920,0:11:37.279

machine do you think that it does apply

0:11:35.680,0:11:39.680

like you said it's from the 80s do you

0:11:37.279,0:11:42.160

think that even today we believe that's

0:11:39.680,0:11:42.959

how ai will interact with people like

0:11:42.160,0:11:44.480

they'll never

0:11:42.959,0:11:46.160

actually understand what we're talking

0:11:44.480,0:11:46.640

about why'd you call it semantics from

0:11:46.160,0:11:49.040

syntax

0:11:46.640,0:11:49.680

um no i don't think it does i don't

0:11:49.040,0:11:52.079

think it

0:11:49.680,0:11:52.880

applies well because if you think about

0:11:52.079,0:11:56.000

it if

0:11:52.880,0:11:59.120

we originally were single cells

0:11:56.000,0:12:00.959

i feel like you could get meaning as if

0:11:59.120,0:12:04.079

you're willing to admit that i

0:12:00.959,0:12:04.720

can get meaning from you right now i i

0:12:04.079,0:12:06.959

think that's

0:12:04.720,0:12:09.440

the argument right there i think um i

0:12:06.959,0:12:11.839

don't know i i feel pretty strongly that

0:12:09.440,0:12:12.720

that a strong ai could get meaning from

0:12:11.839,0:12:14.800

things i just

0:12:12.720,0:12:16.320

i just i just have that strong intuition

0:12:14.800,0:12:16.959

but this thought experiment doesn't

0:12:16.320,0:12:19.040

change me

0:12:16.959,0:12:20.880

but it definitely like it brings up

0:12:19.040,0:12:23.279

doubts and then

0:12:20.880,0:12:24.000

i'm not sure how to exactly square it

0:12:23.279,0:12:25.519

with this thought

0:12:24.000,0:12:27.600

experiment it makes you see things from

0:12:25.519,0:12:30.720

a different angle yeah yeah

0:12:27.600,0:12:31.440

in general i think in linguistics and

0:12:30.720,0:12:33.839

also in

0:12:31.440,0:12:34.800

in what they call nlp like natural

0:12:33.839,0:12:37.519

language processing

0:12:34.800,0:12:38.160

like language is structured in some kind

0:12:37.519,0:12:40.560

of uh

0:12:38.160,0:12:41.920

an algorithm or or maybe you know

0:12:40.560,0:12:44.160

something that you can

0:12:41.920,0:12:45.920

pretty much analyze but there are two

0:12:44.160,0:12:48.320

different steps i'm not sure

0:12:45.920,0:12:49.600

if necessarily this is how the brain

0:12:48.320,0:12:52.320

actually works

0:12:49.600,0:12:52.959

you analyze it syntactically and then

0:12:52.320,0:12:55.839

you

0:12:52.959,0:12:56.399

analyze it semantically regarding that

0:12:55.839,0:12:59.200

there's an

0:12:56.399,0:13:00.720

interesting experiment i think it's

0:12:59.200,0:13:01.600

called like the cocktail party

0:13:00.720,0:13:03.360

experiment

0:13:01.600,0:13:05.440

where you stand in a cocktail party and

0:13:03.360,0:13:08.639

there's a lot of noise people

0:13:05.440,0:13:09.279

are talking non-stop around you and then

0:13:08.639,0:13:11.760

someone

0:13:09.279,0:13:12.800

shouts out your name and you're actually

0:13:11.760,0:13:14.639

able to

0:13:12.800,0:13:16.560

kind of turn around and look at it and

0:13:14.639,0:13:18.959

it's not necessarily because

0:13:16.560,0:13:20.480

it's in a higher volume but it kind of

0:13:18.959,0:13:22.880

grabs your attention

0:13:20.480,0:13:24.560

and that's interesting because you hear

0:13:22.880,0:13:25.839

a lot of other talking but you don't

0:13:24.560,0:13:27.920

necessarily

0:13:25.839,0:13:29.600

pay attention to them but then when you

0:13:27.920,0:13:32.079

hear your name but because it

0:13:29.600,0:13:34.160

does have some kind of a semantic yeah

0:13:32.079,0:13:36.720

like it passes the semantic filter

0:13:34.160,0:13:38.399

and then you can actually um respond to

0:13:36.720,0:13:39.040

it and and that's very interesting

0:13:38.399,0:13:42.079

because

0:13:39.040,0:13:42.639

does it mean that we already kind of

0:13:42.079,0:13:46.320

like

0:13:42.639,0:13:46.560

give this very shallow semantic analysis

0:13:46.320,0:13:49.760

of

0:13:46.560,0:13:52.399

of what we hear unconsciously or

0:13:49.760,0:13:53.120

is there some kind of another mechanism

0:13:52.399,0:13:55.519

that uh

0:13:53.120,0:13:56.880

help us to understand that's interesting

0:13:55.519,0:13:59.040

i i had that at work

0:13:56.880,0:14:00.240

actually the other day like someone was

0:13:59.040,0:14:02.000

asking me to do something

0:14:00.240,0:14:04.800

and i was sort of i was like nodding my

0:14:02.000,0:14:08.160

head i sort of i thought i understood it

0:14:04.800,0:14:09.519

and then they went away and i had this

0:14:08.160,0:14:11.360

particular question i think it was like

0:14:09.519,0:14:13.199

whether because we email things and we

0:14:11.360,0:14:15.279

do things with paper as well

0:14:13.199,0:14:17.040

i couldn't remember if he said to do it

0:14:15.279,0:14:19.440

by email or paper

0:14:17.040,0:14:22.399

and then i heard it again i heard him

0:14:19.440,0:14:25.040

exactly how he said it like in his voice

0:14:22.399,0:14:26.000

and obviously the air molecules weren't

0:14:25.040,0:14:28.079

moving or anything

0:14:26.000,0:14:29.199

but in my head it was indistinguishable

0:14:28.079,0:14:31.279

from hearing it again

0:14:29.199,0:14:33.839

it's like i processed it like a minute

0:14:31.279,0:14:35.680

later it it was very weird

0:14:33.839,0:14:37.519

i don't know it's not exactly the same

0:14:35.680,0:14:38.880

thing but like i don't know if you guys

0:14:37.519,0:14:41.120

tried it but if you guys

0:14:38.880,0:14:43.199

sit in like a quiet room maybe it helps

0:14:41.120,0:14:45.279

even to turn off the lights

0:14:43.199,0:14:47.600

and you kind of concentrate enough you

0:14:45.279,0:14:49.760

can imagine someone calling your name

0:14:47.600,0:14:51.279

you know and it feels exactly like

0:14:49.760,0:14:52.800

someone is actually calling your name

0:14:51.279,0:14:54.720

it's like i said it there are no

0:14:52.800,0:14:56.399

air molecules moving there's no sound

0:14:54.720,0:14:58.399

being produced but you can

0:14:56.399,0:15:00.079

somehow trick your brain into actually

0:14:58.399,0:15:02.079

processing that sound

0:15:00.079,0:15:04.160

again it's a lot of fun all right the

0:15:02.079,0:15:06.560

second one um this one's called

0:15:04.160,0:15:07.839

the brainstorm machine so first i just

0:15:06.560,0:15:09.760

want to introduce

0:15:07.839,0:15:11.760

what qualia is you don't do you know

0:15:09.760,0:15:12.880

what koala is no okay i'll quickly

0:15:11.760,0:15:15.680

introduce it so

0:15:12.880,0:15:17.279

um qualia is feelings and experiences

0:15:15.680,0:15:20.160

vary widely for example

0:15:17.279,0:15:21.040

i run my fingers over sandpaper smell a

0:15:20.160,0:15:24.079

skunk

0:15:21.040,0:15:27.279

feel a sharp pain in my finger seem to

0:15:24.079,0:15:29.600

see bright purple become extremely angry

0:15:27.279,0:15:31.279

in each of these cases i'm the subject

0:15:29.600,0:15:33.519

of a mental state with a very

0:15:31.279,0:15:35.519

distinctive subjective character

0:15:33.519,0:15:36.800

there is something it is like for me to

0:15:35.519,0:15:39.040

undergo each state

0:15:36.800,0:15:41.279

some phenomenology that it has

0:15:39.040,0:15:43.199

philosophers often use the term qualia

0:15:41.279,0:15:45.519

or singular quail

0:15:43.199,0:15:47.279

to refer to the introspectively

0:15:45.519,0:15:50.560

accessible phenomenal

0:15:47.279,0:15:52.399

aspects of our lives okay so basically

0:15:50.560,0:15:54.240

qualia is like what it is like

0:15:52.399,0:15:56.079

to see a color like colors are very

0:15:54.240,0:15:56.800

interesting because it's inherently just

0:15:56.079,0:16:00.000

subjective

0:15:56.800,0:16:01.759

so like when you see red color is is

0:16:00.000,0:16:04.000

what it is like for you to see that

0:16:01.759,0:16:06.399

color right so anyway

0:16:04.000,0:16:07.920

this one is by daniel dennett who's a

0:16:06.399,0:16:09.519

great philosopher and a lot of his

0:16:07.920,0:16:11.600

thought experiments sort of or he calls

0:16:09.519,0:16:13.680

them intuition pumps actually but

0:16:11.600,0:16:15.759

um a lot of his thought experiments sort

0:16:13.680,0:16:17.199

of go along the same lines but

0:16:15.759,0:16:19.600

um this one's probably one of the best

0:16:17.199,0:16:22.959

ones suppose that there are

0:16:19.600,0:16:23.680

some neuroscientific apparatus that fits

0:16:22.959,0:16:26.079

on your head

0:16:23.680,0:16:27.040

and feeds your visual experience into

0:16:26.079,0:16:29.360

your brain

0:16:27.040,0:16:31.839

and i think this was written before vr

0:16:29.360,0:16:33.120

so let's just assume it's vr

0:16:31.839,0:16:35.040

you have your eyes closed so it's a bit

0:16:33.120,0:16:36.160

different to vr i guess yeah anyway with

0:16:35.040,0:16:38.320

eyes closed

0:16:36.160,0:16:40.880

i accurately report everything you are

0:16:38.320,0:16:42.320

looking at so i'm looking at what anon

0:16:40.880,0:16:45.440

would be looking at

0:16:42.320,0:16:48.839

except that i marvel at how the sky

0:16:45.440,0:16:50.560

is yellow and the grass is red and so

0:16:48.839,0:16:53.839

forth would this

0:16:50.560,0:16:56.480

not confirm empirically that our qualia

0:16:53.839,0:16:58.160

were different so what it's like for you

0:16:56.480,0:16:59.759

to see grass is different for what it's

0:16:58.160,0:17:02.480

like for me to see grass

0:16:59.759,0:17:04.000

but suppose the technician then pulls

0:17:02.480,0:17:07.839

the plug on the connecting

0:17:04.000,0:17:10.000

cable now this cable um or this plug

0:17:07.839,0:17:11.360

is just two circles so you can invert it

0:17:10.000,0:17:14.319

180 degrees

0:17:11.360,0:17:15.039

and just put it in the socket again now

0:17:14.319,0:17:16.640

when i'm

0:17:15.039,0:17:19.439

closing my eyes and i'm reporting what

0:17:16.640,0:17:22.640

in the sky looks blue

0:17:19.439,0:17:23.039

the grass looks green and so forth so

0:17:22.640,0:17:25.919

which

0:17:23.039,0:17:27.679

is the right orientation of the plug so

0:17:25.919,0:17:29.600

designing and building such a device

0:17:27.679,0:17:31.440

would require that its fidelity

0:17:29.600,0:17:32.720

be tuned or calibrated by the

0:17:31.440,0:17:35.280

normalization of

0:17:32.720,0:17:36.880

two subjects reports so we would be

0:17:35.280,0:17:37.360

right back at our evidential starting

0:17:36.880,0:17:39.600

point

0:17:37.360,0:17:42.400

the moral of the intuition pump is that

0:17:39.600,0:17:44.720

no inter-subjective comparison of qualia

0:17:42.400,0:17:46.000

is possible even with perfect technology

0:17:44.720,0:17:49.520

so there's nothing that i

0:17:46.000,0:17:51.679

could say that it should look like this

0:17:49.520,0:17:53.440

or it should look like that because we

0:17:51.679,0:17:55.440

just would have no way of

0:17:53.440,0:17:56.720

seeing what would be the correct way to

0:17:55.440,0:17:58.480

orientate the plug

0:17:56.720,0:17:59.919

what i like about this one is that

0:17:58.480,0:18:01.039

everyone's saying like oh what happens

0:17:59.919,0:18:03.120

if my yellow

0:18:01.039,0:18:04.240

is like different to your yellow but

0:18:03.120,0:18:06.559

there's no way we

0:18:04.240,0:18:08.320

could see it right now like there's no

0:18:06.559,0:18:09.120

there's no way to see it but if you had

0:18:08.320,0:18:11.679

this plug

0:18:09.120,0:18:13.360

and i saw something different it still

0:18:11.679,0:18:14.000

lands you at this stalemate where you

0:18:13.360,0:18:16.640

can't say

0:18:14.000,0:18:18.400

anything is the right way up which is so

0:18:16.640,0:18:19.440

so much different to like the objective

0:18:18.400,0:18:20.640

world where

0:18:19.440,0:18:22.799

there's something you can measure you

0:18:20.640,0:18:24.559

can go out and like just draw up

0:18:22.799,0:18:26.000

with a measuring stick how big something

0:18:24.559,0:18:28.559

is or you know

0:18:26.000,0:18:30.160

but with with this is it's just it's

0:18:28.559,0:18:31.120

it's two people's account and there's no

0:18:30.160,0:18:33.520

way to reconcile

0:18:31.120,0:18:35.120

huh like i'm looking at the google docs

0:18:33.520,0:18:35.600

symbol right now which is blue and i'm

0:18:35.120,0:18:39.039

thinking

0:18:35.600,0:18:40.160

is it though no i'm kidding i always

0:18:39.039,0:18:42.880

like the fact that

0:18:40.160,0:18:43.760

maybe everyone's got their fav favorite

0:18:42.880,0:18:47.039

color right

0:18:43.760,0:18:49.280

maybe it's all the same color maybe we

0:18:47.039,0:18:50.480

we're all attracted to you know what's

0:18:49.280,0:18:53.840

eventually blue

0:18:50.480,0:18:57.280

yeah right but each of us has a dif uh

0:18:53.840,0:18:59.360

experience it under a different label

0:18:57.280,0:19:01.360

yeah so like for instance like a lot of

0:18:59.360,0:19:03.760

our color is like based on like

0:19:01.360,0:19:04.880

blood is a particular color sky is a

0:19:03.760,0:19:06.880

particular color

0:19:04.880,0:19:08.880

grass is a particular color and you know

0:19:06.880,0:19:09.360

these things arise from different things

0:19:08.880,0:19:12.400

like

0:19:09.360,0:19:15.360

obviously blood is is is red and

0:19:12.400,0:19:16.559

people associate that with fear the um

0:19:15.360,0:19:19.360

the grass is green

0:19:16.559,0:19:20.640

photosynthesis and then our subjective

0:19:19.360,0:19:22.559

experience so that's why i had to

0:19:20.640,0:19:23.440

explain qualia so like what it's like

0:19:22.559,0:19:25.840

for me to

0:19:23.440,0:19:28.000

see the sky when i say it's like a

0:19:25.840,0:19:29.760

soothing color like blue is quite like a

0:19:28.000,0:19:31.520

soothing color compared to red

0:19:29.760,0:19:32.960

the thing is you might actually be

0:19:31.520,0:19:34.799

seeing just a soothing red

0:19:32.960,0:19:36.400

yeah that might be what it's like for

0:19:34.799,0:19:37.840

you to see it yeah so

0:19:36.400,0:19:39.840

yeah i think it's an i think it's a

0:19:37.840,0:19:41.440

smart one and it's sort of like one of

0:19:39.840,0:19:43.360

those ones you'll get on the drive home

0:19:41.440,0:19:45.440

like i think it's quite an interesting

0:19:43.360,0:19:46.000

one yeah it is yeah it actually reminds

0:19:45.440,0:19:48.000

me another

0:19:46.000,0:19:50.000

another experiment the one with um with

0:19:48.000,0:19:52.480

mary and actually experiencing

0:19:50.000,0:19:54.320

oh yeah mary the color scientist yeah

0:19:52.480,0:19:56.160

yeah that one's slightly different but

0:19:54.320,0:19:58.160

i can go over it if you want yeah i

0:19:56.160,0:20:00.559

think i i think it relates

0:19:58.160,0:20:02.320

very nicely to what we just done so mary

0:20:00.559,0:20:02.880

is a person that's in a black and white

0:20:02.320,0:20:05.360

room

0:20:02.880,0:20:06.320

and let's just imagine she doesn't see

0:20:05.360,0:20:07.840

herself

0:20:06.320,0:20:10.400

but she's in a black and white room with

0:20:07.840,0:20:11.679

no color but she has books black and

0:20:10.400,0:20:14.159

white books that tell

0:20:11.679,0:20:15.200

her everything she can possibly know

0:20:14.159,0:20:17.280

about color

0:20:15.200,0:20:18.960

so she knows other people's accounts of

0:20:17.280,0:20:22.240

color she knows

0:20:18.960,0:20:24.480

how there's um three sort of

0:20:22.240,0:20:27.039

cones in your retina that pick up color

0:20:24.480,0:20:29.200

and then they do a mix to get blends

0:20:27.039,0:20:30.720

and then she knows what happens like

0:20:29.200,0:20:33.440

sort of in your brain

0:20:30.720,0:20:35.039

like she knows what regions light up and

0:20:33.440,0:20:37.200

she knows the physics of light

0:20:35.039,0:20:38.880

she knows all like radio waves she knows

0:20:37.200,0:20:40.480

everything about it she knows even the

0:20:38.880,0:20:42.559

cultural aspects she knows

0:20:40.480,0:20:44.640

like what color certain soccer teams are

0:20:42.559,0:20:46.960

she knows manchester united is red

0:20:44.640,0:20:48.120

and she knows red is also blood so she

0:20:46.960,0:20:51.360

knows everything

0:20:48.120,0:20:52.880

except she's never seen color very cruel

0:20:51.360,0:20:54.320

isn't it she loves coloring she's never

0:20:52.880,0:20:57.679

seen it but

0:20:54.320,0:20:58.320

anyway one day she goes outside and she

0:20:57.679,0:21:00.799

sees

0:20:58.320,0:21:01.360

like everything she sees the the blue

0:21:00.799,0:21:04.240

sky

0:21:01.360,0:21:05.440

maybe the yellow sky no the blue sky and

0:21:04.240,0:21:07.600

then the green grass

0:21:05.440,0:21:09.919

and red blood and everything right does

0:21:07.600,0:21:11.760

she actually learn anything new

0:21:09.919,0:21:13.120

by seeing the color the reason i say

0:21:11.760,0:21:14.880

it's a bit different is it

0:21:13.120,0:21:16.720

like i'm thinking now actually that it's

0:21:14.880,0:21:19.679

a better thought experiment but

0:21:16.720,0:21:21.840

what the reason why it's different is

0:21:19.679,0:21:23.919

because this one is trying to say that

0:21:21.840,0:21:25.600

there's something else but physical

0:21:23.919,0:21:26.480

things so like it's trying to say

0:21:25.600,0:21:28.880

something about like

0:21:26.480,0:21:30.159

subjective knowledge so is there

0:21:28.880,0:21:32.240

something you can

0:21:30.159,0:21:34.000

know only like subjectively that can't

0:21:32.240,0:21:36.480

be obtained just by objective

0:21:34.000,0:21:37.919

observation whereas the dan dennis one

0:21:36.480,0:21:40.960

is is to do with

0:21:37.919,0:21:41.840

basically phenomenology which well i

0:21:40.960,0:21:44.240

guess they're both to do with

0:21:41.840,0:21:45.919

phenomenology i think that's the qualia

0:21:44.240,0:21:48.400

right like the quality is actually

0:21:45.919,0:21:50.159

experiencing something that's true yeah

0:21:48.400,0:21:51.679

like exp experiencing the quality of

0:21:50.159,0:21:53.520

something by yourself it's it's

0:21:51.679,0:21:55.360

that's true so she has everything but

0:21:53.520,0:21:56.480

the qualia yeah it's something that you

0:21:55.360,0:21:57.919

can't really

0:21:56.480,0:21:59.600

can't ditch it you can't talk about it

0:21:57.919,0:22:01.360

you have to experience yeah

0:21:59.600,0:22:02.960

yeah so no that's perfect actually

0:22:01.360,0:22:05.600

because it is the experience

0:22:02.960,0:22:07.280

it is so qualia isn't available you

0:22:05.600,0:22:08.880

can't just write down qualia by

0:22:07.280,0:22:09.760

definition you can't can only be

0:22:08.880,0:22:11.520

experienced

0:22:09.760,0:22:13.760

anyway moving on cool yeah this is

0:22:11.520,0:22:16.720

really cool keep going third one

0:22:13.760,0:22:17.280

or the second one if i fucked up um twin

0:22:16.720,0:22:19.440

earths

0:22:17.280,0:22:20.320

so this one's a new one to me actually

0:22:19.440,0:22:22.080

and um

0:22:20.320,0:22:23.360

i've only discovered it recently i

0:22:22.080,0:22:26.400

thought it was quite interesting

0:22:23.360,0:22:27.760

so we begin by supposing that elsewhere

0:22:26.400,0:22:29.360

in the universe there is a planet

0:22:27.760,0:22:31.840

exactly like earth

0:22:29.360,0:22:32.960

in virtually all aspects which we refer

0:22:31.840,0:22:34.400

to as twin earth

0:22:32.960,0:22:36.320

we should also suppose that like

0:22:34.400,0:22:36.799

relevant surroundings are exactly the

0:22:36.320,0:22:39.600

same

0:22:36.799,0:22:40.000

so the eiffel tower is exactly where the

0:22:39.600,0:22:41.679

eiffel

0:22:40.000,0:22:44.159

tower is like we're recording this

0:22:41.679,0:22:45.760

podcast right now it's exactly the same

0:22:44.159,0:22:48.640

like molecule for molecule

0:22:45.760,0:22:50.960

almost it revolves around a star that

0:22:48.640,0:22:53.440

appears to be exactly like our sun

0:22:50.960,0:22:54.080

and on twinners there is a twin

0:22:53.440,0:22:56.320

equivalent

0:22:54.080,0:22:58.320

of every person and thing there is on

0:22:56.320,0:23:00.320

earth the one difference between the two

0:22:58.320,0:23:02.320

planets is that there is no water

0:23:00.320,0:23:03.440

on twin earth in its place there's a

0:23:02.320,0:23:06.960

liquid that is

0:23:03.440,0:23:08.640

superficially identical so you can run

0:23:06.960,0:23:09.760

your hands through it and it'll feel

0:23:08.640,0:23:12.080

exactly the same

0:23:09.760,0:23:12.880

and you can put it in your cocktail you

0:23:12.080,0:23:16.159

can

0:23:12.880,0:23:17.000

shower with it there's no difference on

0:23:16.159,0:23:19.679

i guess you could say the

0:23:17.000,0:23:22.799

phenomenological level right

0:23:19.679,0:23:25.760

um but chemically being composed

0:23:22.799,0:23:26.880

not of h2o it's actually composed of

0:23:25.760,0:23:29.520

something just called

0:23:26.880,0:23:31.679

we'll call it xyz because they do and

0:23:29.520,0:23:34.159

it's a little bit more complicated right

0:23:31.679,0:23:35.039

now the twin earthlings who refer to

0:23:34.159,0:23:39.039

their language as

0:23:35.039,0:23:41.279

english as we do they call this xyz

0:23:39.039,0:23:42.080

water so they call it what we do so

0:23:41.279,0:23:44.000

basically

0:23:42.080,0:23:45.200

everywhere in the oceans they have this

0:23:44.000,0:23:48.480

thing called xyz

0:23:45.200,0:23:49.520

when for us it's h2o so here's the

0:23:48.480,0:23:51.600

thought experiment

0:23:49.520,0:23:53.679

we set a date um of our thought

0:23:51.600,0:23:54.159

experiment to be several centuries ago

0:23:53.679,0:23:58.320

so

0:23:54.159,0:24:00.720

maybe we would say 1 500 right

0:23:58.320,0:24:01.760

and the resonance of earth and twin

0:24:00.720,0:24:04.240

earth would have no

0:24:01.760,0:24:06.480

means of knowing that liquids that they

0:24:04.240,0:24:07.200

call water were h2o and xyz so we

0:24:06.480,0:24:11.039

haven't got

0:24:07.200,0:24:13.120

to the molecular level of chemistry yet

0:24:11.039,0:24:14.559

the experience of people on earth with

0:24:13.120,0:24:17.520

water and that of those

0:24:14.559,0:24:18.960

on twin earth with the xyz molecule

0:24:17.520,0:24:22.240

water stuff

0:24:18.960,0:24:24.159

is identical exactly the same because

0:24:22.240,0:24:26.880

it couldn't have affected history

0:24:24.159,0:24:29.520

because phenomenologically it's the same

0:24:26.880,0:24:31.039

but we haven't got to that level so the

0:24:29.520,0:24:34.320

question arises when an

0:24:31.039,0:24:38.640

earthling and its twin on twin earth

0:24:34.320,0:24:39.510

say water do they mean the same thing

0:24:38.640,0:24:42.320

no

0:24:39.510,0:24:44.320

[Laughter]

0:24:42.320,0:24:46.000

it's really good it is good isn't it

0:24:44.320,0:24:47.600

because a lot of people argue

0:24:46.000,0:24:49.919

well people argue a million things in

0:24:47.600,0:24:50.400

philosophy but the biggest one is saying

0:24:49.919,0:24:52.320

well

0:24:50.400,0:24:54.320

when i say water i'm not talking about

0:24:52.320,0:24:56.240

h2o i'm talking about the feeling of it

0:24:54.320,0:24:57.679

i'm talking about like the uses

0:24:56.240,0:24:59.600

talking about the feeling talking about

0:24:57.679,0:25:01.039

what it looks like the functional

0:24:59.600,0:25:02.799

aspects of water

0:25:01.039,0:25:04.320

yeah the the point of the thought

0:25:02.799,0:25:05.039

experiment because as i said all thought

0:25:04.320,0:25:07.919

experiments are

0:25:05.039,0:25:10.240

basically to prove a point um the

0:25:07.919,0:25:12.320

contents of a person's brain

0:25:10.240,0:25:14.240

are not sufficient to determine the

0:25:12.320,0:25:16.559

reference of terms they use

0:25:14.240,0:25:17.440

as one must also examine the causal

0:25:16.559,0:25:20.640

history that

0:25:17.440,0:25:23.520

led to the individual acquiring the term

0:25:20.640,0:25:24.799

so basically like if you learn the word

0:25:23.520,0:25:28.080

water in a world

0:25:24.799,0:25:29.520

filled with h2o compared to a world

0:25:28.080,0:25:31.840

filled with xyz

0:25:29.520,0:25:33.520

it brings a different meaning which is

0:25:31.840,0:25:35.760

what the author's trying to say

0:25:33.520,0:25:37.760

so the effect of it is basically you

0:25:35.760,0:25:40.559

can't do a brain scan

0:25:37.760,0:25:41.600

and tell someone exactly what they mean

0:25:40.559,0:25:43.279

because you need to

0:25:41.600,0:25:44.880

basically follow the history of exactly

0:25:43.279,0:25:46.880

what they're saying that's interesting

0:25:44.880,0:25:48.480

all right we're done with that one yeah

0:25:46.880,0:25:51.200

all right so this one's called

0:25:48.480,0:25:51.760

boltzmann's brains um i'll start out

0:25:51.200,0:25:54.080

with just

0:25:51.760,0:25:55.360

defining some stuff so if you guys you

0:25:54.080,0:25:57.919

know don't have it on the top of your

0:25:55.360,0:26:00.159

head the second law of thermodynamics

0:25:57.919,0:26:01.360

states that the total entropy of an

0:26:00.159,0:26:03.760

isolated system

0:26:01.360,0:26:05.360

can never decrease over time and is

0:26:03.760,0:26:08.960

constant if and only

0:26:05.360,0:26:10.720

if all processes are reversible

0:26:08.960,0:26:12.960

so i'm not sure if any of you guys have

0:26:10.720,0:26:15.039

a knowledge of physics i know you're

0:26:12.960,0:26:18.799

currently reading particle physics

0:26:15.039,0:26:20.720

a short introduction and on but

0:26:18.799,0:26:22.400

i read your goodread updates but

0:26:20.720,0:26:25.600

basically entropy is just

0:26:22.400,0:26:28.880

so you have a room that has

0:26:25.600,0:26:30.480

just air molecules right and maybe

0:26:28.880,0:26:32.559

when you go into the room there's a

0:26:30.480,0:26:34.159

little bit of heat in the left side of

0:26:32.559,0:26:35.440

the room but in the right side it's a

0:26:34.159,0:26:37.200

little bit colder

0:26:35.440,0:26:39.039

now eventually that's going to equalize

0:26:37.200,0:26:40.559

over time and it's going to get to the

0:26:39.039,0:26:42.960

point where it's just going to stay at

0:26:40.559,0:26:46.240

room temperature like 26 degrees

0:26:42.960,0:26:48.480

celsius just basically forever but

0:26:46.240,0:26:49.600

in each of these little molecules right

0:26:48.480,0:26:51.919

there's going to be

0:26:49.600,0:26:53.360

small fluctuations in movement just

0:26:51.919,0:26:55.840

through randomness

0:26:53.360,0:26:57.600

and basically you're going to get small

0:26:55.840,0:26:59.440

little warm spots

0:26:57.600,0:27:01.520

not because anything's happened in the

0:26:59.440,0:27:03.279

room but just through randomness

0:27:01.520,0:27:04.720

there's going to be more activity in one

0:27:03.279,0:27:07.120

area of the room so

0:27:04.720,0:27:09.200

basically the total entropy in an

0:27:07.120,0:27:10.159

isolated system so the isolated system

0:27:09.200,0:27:12.320

is the room

0:27:10.159,0:27:14.320

it can never go down so it's always

0:27:12.320,0:27:16.559

going to be more stable than it was but

0:27:14.320,0:27:17.760

there's going to be little pockets that

0:27:16.559,0:27:21.039

are going to be unstable

0:27:17.760,0:27:22.720

right so the first theory

0:27:21.039,0:27:24.240

now believed to be the correct one is

0:27:22.720,0:27:27.520

that the universe started for some

0:27:24.240,0:27:30.320

unknown reason in a low entropy state

0:27:27.520,0:27:32.720

now the second and alternative theory

0:27:30.320,0:27:33.279

attributed in 1895 to boltzmann's

0:27:32.720,0:27:36.399

assistant

0:27:33.279,0:27:37.279

ignaz schutz is the boltzmann universe

0:27:36.399,0:27:39.679

scenario

0:27:37.279,0:27:41.039

in this scenario the universe spends the

0:27:39.679,0:27:43.360

vast majority

0:27:41.039,0:27:44.080

of eternity in a featureless state of

0:27:43.360,0:27:46.480

heat death

0:27:44.080,0:27:48.080

so let's just call this like the room

0:27:46.480,0:27:50.159

where it's just 26 degrees

0:27:48.080,0:27:51.919

right except it's the universe so

0:27:50.159,0:27:54.080

there's going to be small pockets

0:27:51.919,0:27:55.120

of sort of heat and stuff but it's still

0:27:54.080,0:27:57.200

evening out right

0:27:55.120,0:27:58.240

over time but it's never going to get to

0:27:57.200,0:28:00.000

a state where it's

0:27:58.240,0:28:02.399

there's no activity because particles

0:28:00.000,0:28:05.120

are always going to randomly bounce and

0:28:02.399,0:28:06.159

get close to each other so over eons

0:28:05.120,0:28:08.720

eventually a very

0:28:06.159,0:28:10.240

rare thermal fluctuation will occur

0:28:08.720,0:28:13.039

which we just talked about where

0:28:10.240,0:28:15.440

atoms bounce off each other in exactly

0:28:13.039,0:28:18.880

such a way as to form a substructure

0:28:15.440,0:28:22.080

equivalent to our entire observable

0:28:18.880,0:28:22.880

universe so basically these little heat

0:28:22.080,0:28:25.360

pockets

0:28:22.880,0:28:26.240

if you extend time out to infinity

0:28:25.360,0:28:28.640

eventually

0:28:26.240,0:28:29.600

all those particles are going to arrange

0:28:28.640,0:28:32.960

themselves

0:28:29.600,0:28:33.840

either exactly how we find ourselves now

0:28:32.960,0:28:36.000

so they're going to

0:28:33.840,0:28:37.039

arrange ourselves in sort of planets and

0:28:36.000,0:28:39.679

stuff like that or

0:28:37.039,0:28:40.720

they're going to all converge on one

0:28:39.679,0:28:43.039

single point

0:28:40.720,0:28:44.480

and you're going to get a big bang now

0:28:43.039,0:28:46.720

in 1931

0:28:44.480,0:28:49.360

astronomer arthur eddington pointed out

0:28:46.720,0:28:52.240

that because a large fluctuation

0:28:49.360,0:28:53.919

is exponentially less probable than a

0:28:52.240,0:28:56.559

small fluctuation

0:28:53.919,0:28:59.120

observers in a boltzmann universe will

0:28:56.559,0:29:02.240

be vastly outnumbered by

0:28:59.120,0:29:04.720

observers in smaller fluctuations so

0:29:02.240,0:29:06.399

what he's trying to say is that what are

0:29:04.720,0:29:08.480

the chances of all

0:29:06.399,0:29:09.600

particles converging on one point and

0:29:08.480,0:29:11.520

creating a big bang

0:29:09.600,0:29:12.799

it's small because that involves all

0:29:11.520,0:29:15.679

particles

0:29:12.799,0:29:17.440

but what happens if 50 million particles

0:29:15.679,0:29:20.159

instead of 50 gazillion

0:29:17.440,0:29:21.200

particles could converge to create a

0:29:20.159,0:29:24.720

brain

0:29:21.200,0:29:27.120

and the brain is your brain and it's got

0:29:24.720,0:29:28.240

it's got memories installed it's got

0:29:27.120,0:29:30.480

sort of thoughts

0:29:28.240,0:29:31.360

and it's just exists for a glimmer of a

0:29:30.480,0:29:33.360

second

0:29:31.360,0:29:34.399

and it thinks that you're recording a

0:29:33.360,0:29:37.200

podcast

0:29:34.399,0:29:38.000

with two people uh one in israel one in

0:29:37.200,0:29:40.720

australia but

0:29:38.000,0:29:42.240

really it's just popped out out of the

0:29:40.720,0:29:45.120

void it's just particles

0:29:42.240,0:29:47.279

coming out of nowhere so that seems more

0:29:45.120,0:29:49.600

um statistically probable

0:29:47.279,0:29:51.919

than actually having a big bang huh and

0:29:49.600,0:29:53.760

and physicists still argue about this

0:29:51.919,0:29:56.480

um there's like there's probably two

0:29:53.760,0:29:58.960

types of arguments which is one is

0:29:56.480,0:29:59.760

even if it were true then in a second it

0:29:58.960,0:30:02.000

won't matter

0:29:59.760,0:30:04.080

so it shouldn't affect you anyway but if

0:30:02.000,0:30:06.080

it regardless if it's true or not we

0:30:04.080,0:30:07.919

should still be working on physics it

0:30:06.080,0:30:09.840

we should assume that it's not because

0:30:07.919,0:30:12.000

that would just assume an end point

0:30:09.840,0:30:14.240

for physics right that when you publish

0:30:12.000,0:30:16.080

your paper there's no one actually

0:30:14.240,0:30:17.679

hearing it there's no one like actually

0:30:16.080,0:30:18.799

reading it because it you're just a

0:30:17.679,0:30:21.679

boltzmann brain

0:30:18.799,0:30:22.000

but most physicists say that there's no

0:30:21.679,0:30:24.159

point

0:30:22.000,0:30:25.039

because well this gets tricky right

0:30:24.159,0:30:26.640

because

0:30:25.039,0:30:28.880

they say well it's better just for

0:30:26.640,0:30:31.120

physics that no one assumes this because

0:30:28.880,0:30:33.039

then we can continue our work right

0:30:31.120,0:30:34.880

but if it was true then that wouldn't

0:30:33.039,0:30:36.480

even matter so

0:30:34.880,0:30:38.240

wrap your brain around that that's nice

0:30:36.480,0:30:39.600

that's really interesting i'm sorry that

0:30:38.240,0:30:40.000

i don't have anything smart to say about

0:30:39.600,0:30:42.159

this

0:30:40.000,0:30:44.000

that's okay it would be easier to create

0:30:42.159,0:30:45.440

one brain than a planet

0:30:44.000,0:30:47.360

and it would be easier to create a

0:30:45.440,0:30:50.320

planet than a big bang

0:30:47.360,0:30:50.720

so it's just a statistical probability

0:30:50.320,0:30:53.120

yeah

0:30:50.720,0:30:54.240

it's almost infinitely more probable

0:30:53.120,0:30:56.720

that you know

0:30:54.240,0:30:57.360

a bunch of particles will emerge into

0:30:56.720,0:30:59.360

one brain

0:30:57.360,0:31:01.200

appearing out of the void then a big

0:30:59.360,0:31:01.600

bang and it's interesting because a big

0:31:01.200,0:31:04.799

bang

0:31:01.600,0:31:07.360

occurred or you have a memory that

0:31:04.799,0:31:09.120

people think it occurred does it mean

0:31:07.360,0:31:11.440

that particles were just

0:31:09.120,0:31:12.480

there out of nowhere like you start by

0:31:11.440,0:31:16.159

assuming that there

0:31:12.480,0:31:18.320

are particles in in this random universe

0:31:16.159,0:31:20.159

random particles in a random universe i

0:31:18.320,0:31:20.559

think we have to assume this particles

0:31:20.159,0:31:22.640

yes

0:31:20.559,0:31:24.320

yeah so the next thought experiment the

0:31:22.640,0:31:25.919

final thought experiment

0:31:24.320,0:31:27.919

now this one's an easy one actually and

0:31:25.919,0:31:29.600

i think this one hopefully you guys will

0:31:27.919,0:31:30.480

be able to answer because a lot of these

0:31:29.600,0:31:32.240

are sort of just

0:31:30.480,0:31:33.600

you don't know what to say yeah these

0:31:32.240,0:31:35.200

are really interesting and they're

0:31:33.600,0:31:36.880

blowing my mind here but i

0:31:35.200,0:31:39.360

wish i had something smart to say about

0:31:36.880,0:31:40.799

them but i guess that's that's the thing

0:31:39.360,0:31:42.320

with that experiment

0:31:40.799,0:31:44.320

like most of them don't don't really

0:31:42.320,0:31:45.760

have an answer they're just like

0:31:44.320,0:31:47.120

you know the starting point for a

0:31:45.760,0:31:48.159

discussion exactly they just make you

0:31:47.120,0:31:49.440

kind of see things

0:31:48.159,0:31:51.360

from a perspective you didn't think

0:31:49.440,0:31:52.480

about yeah except for the purposes of

0:31:51.360,0:31:55.120

this one this one

0:31:52.480,0:31:56.799

has an answer hopefully you get it right

0:31:55.120,0:31:57.279

this one's a yes or no so i'll ask you

0:31:56.799,0:31:59.360

guys

0:31:57.279,0:32:01.440

all right imagine scientists have come

0:31:59.360,0:32:04.640

up with an amazing new technology

0:32:01.440,0:32:06.080

called the experience machine probably

0:32:04.640,0:32:08.960

made by amazon

0:32:06.080,0:32:09.760

it works like this you go into a lab and

0:32:08.960,0:32:11.440

sit down

0:32:09.760,0:32:13.120

with the staff and talk to them about

0:32:11.440,0:32:15.200

everything you've ever wanted to do in

0:32:13.120,0:32:18.720

your life you describe your perfect

0:32:15.200,0:32:21.760

most ideal most pleasurable most joyous

0:32:18.720,0:32:22.720

most satisfying possible life then they

0:32:21.760,0:32:25.039

induce you

0:32:22.720,0:32:25.919

into a coma that you'll never emerge

0:32:25.039,0:32:28.320

from

0:32:25.919,0:32:29.360

they put your unconscious body into a

0:32:28.320,0:32:31.120

tank of fluid

0:32:29.360,0:32:33.360

in a pitch black room and cover your

0:32:31.120,0:32:35.279

head with electrodes

0:32:33.360,0:32:37.200

once you're in a tank the simulation

0:32:35.279,0:32:39.919

begins you'll experience

0:32:37.200,0:32:41.679

everything you said you'd dreamed of for

0:32:39.919,0:32:43.519

the duration of your life or

0:32:41.679,0:32:44.799

what can feel like a lot longer if you

0:32:43.519,0:32:47.279

if you want

0:32:44.799,0:32:49.039

and you'll have no memory of going into

0:32:47.279,0:32:51.039

the experience machine

0:32:49.039,0:32:53.440

and also you'll have no knowledge that

0:32:51.039,0:32:56.559

your world is only a simulation

0:32:53.440,0:32:56.880

you'll experience your perfect life in

0:32:56.559,0:32:59.519

its

0:32:56.880,0:33:00.240

entirety exactly as if it really

0:32:59.519,0:33:03.039

happened

0:33:00.240,0:33:03.600

so your qualia will be as if it really

0:33:03.039,0:33:06.559

happened

0:33:03.600,0:33:07.279

but in reality none of it is real and

0:33:06.559,0:33:09.600

you're just

0:33:07.279,0:33:10.799

floating in a vat of fluid in a pitch

0:33:09.600,0:33:12.799

black room

0:33:10.799,0:33:14.559

and you'll never again wait to

0:33:12.799,0:33:15.760

experience the actual world or interact

0:33:14.559,0:33:17.440

with actual people

0:33:15.760,0:33:19.519

but of course you won't know that and

0:33:17.440,0:33:21.360

you'll feel like you did

0:33:19.519,0:33:23.519

so the question is if the experience

0:33:21.360,0:33:26.320

machine were available to you

0:33:23.519,0:33:28.240

and guaranteed to work flawlessly would

0:33:26.320,0:33:30.880

you do it and you'll eventually

0:33:28.240,0:33:33.200

die as you would yeah but you could you

0:33:30.880,0:33:34.720

could experience a long life like

0:33:33.200,0:33:36.399

five yeah you could experience a

0:33:34.720,0:33:38.480

thousand years i guess

0:33:36.399,0:33:39.600

or longer but it's a really interesting

0:33:38.480,0:33:41.440

question because

0:33:39.600,0:33:42.640

like the way i see it you know when

0:33:41.440,0:33:45.440

we're talking about like

0:33:42.640,0:33:47.279

what's the meaning of life i i always

0:33:45.440,0:33:49.760

like the fact that

0:33:47.279,0:33:50.399

i don't think there is meaning you know

0:33:49.760,0:33:53.039

like

0:33:50.399,0:33:54.399

we're here because of probability like

0:33:53.039,0:33:56.720

this is how the universe

0:33:54.399,0:33:57.519

evolved and we're here and we're not

0:33:56.720,0:33:59.679

here because

0:33:57.519,0:34:01.360

we're supposed to be happy and we're not

0:33:59.679,0:34:02.399

here because we're supposed to fulfill

0:34:01.360,0:34:04.320

ourselves

0:34:02.399,0:34:07.039

to make something out of ourselves and

0:34:04.320,0:34:10.000

we're not here because of anything like

0:34:07.039,0:34:10.720

life just is and there there is

0:34:10.000,0:34:12.560

happiness

0:34:10.720,0:34:14.079

and there is sadness and there is

0:34:12.560,0:34:16.079

everything in the middle and

0:34:14.079,0:34:17.839

when i think about it i think it's

0:34:16.079,0:34:20.960

beautiful but

0:34:17.839,0:34:22.159

you're giving me a chance to live a life

0:34:20.960,0:34:24.480

that's different

0:34:22.159,0:34:26.480

live a life that is about being happy

0:34:24.480,0:34:29.119

being perfectly happy

0:34:26.480,0:34:30.079

this is a real good question um this one

0:34:29.119,0:34:33.200

is by

0:34:30.079,0:34:34.000

robert nozick and he made this thought

0:34:33.200,0:34:37.599

experiment to

0:34:34.000,0:34:39.119

refute ethical hedonism so hedonism if

0:34:37.599,0:34:42.480

you're like a hedonist or

0:34:39.119,0:34:43.599

ethical heinous i guess is just the most

0:34:42.480,0:34:45.440

ethical thing

0:34:43.599,0:34:48.000

you could do for someone else would just

0:34:45.440,0:34:50.000

be to give them the most happiness

0:34:48.000,0:34:51.839

possible and the thing you should want

0:34:50.000,0:34:55.359

is to be just for

0:34:51.839,0:34:56.240

human pleasure and happiness basically i

0:34:55.359,0:34:58.000

call it happiness

0:34:56.240,0:34:59.359

some people call it well-being there's a

0:34:58.000,0:35:01.520

lot of fights about it

0:34:59.359,0:35:03.119

so the goal and only goal should be to

0:35:01.520,0:35:06.880

maximize pleasure so

0:35:03.119,0:35:09.280

these other things such as love for

0:35:06.880,0:35:09.920

or intrinsic value in like scientific

0:35:09.280,0:35:12.880

pursuit

0:35:09.920,0:35:13.920

or pain after a breakup that a lot of

0:35:12.880,0:35:17.040

people go through

0:35:13.920,0:35:19.520

or more complex emotions like the bond

0:35:17.040,0:35:22.400

you have with someone after going to war

0:35:19.520,0:35:23.680

or um the relationship you have with a

0:35:22.400,0:35:25.200

child or something

0:35:23.680,0:35:26.960

he thinks there's more important things

0:35:25.200,0:35:28.000

than just pleasure so people will not go

0:35:26.960,0:35:31.920

into this

0:35:28.000,0:35:32.800

but my take is that there isn't and you

0:35:31.920,0:35:36.560

should go into it

0:35:32.800,0:35:38.079

i i would i i totally disagree

0:35:36.560,0:35:39.599

like and and the thing is a lot of

0:35:38.079,0:35:41.520

people disagree with this

0:35:39.599,0:35:43.040

and it sort of backfired a little bit

0:35:41.520,0:35:45.040

because i would say probably 50

0:35:43.040,0:35:46.320

of people would just say yeah i would

0:35:45.040,0:35:48.000

totally do that

0:35:46.320,0:35:49.760

there's like the issue of like if

0:35:48.000,0:35:52.160

everyone got in then one person would

0:35:49.760,0:35:53.599

have to like control all the stuff but

0:35:52.160,0:35:55.040

for the purposes of this experiment you

0:35:53.599,0:35:55.520

don't really have to do that about it

0:35:55.040,0:35:58.400

yeah

0:35:55.520,0:35:59.920

but all all of just for instance all of

0:35:58.400,0:36:00.480

your family and friends can do it as

0:35:59.920,0:36:03.119

well

0:36:00.480,0:36:03.680

so it's not like you're leaving anyone

0:36:03.119,0:36:05.760

else

0:36:03.680,0:36:07.359

out of the picture although that doesn't

0:36:05.760,0:36:07.920

really come into the thought experiment

0:36:07.359,0:36:11.119

i guess

0:36:07.920,0:36:12.640

but for me to have everything that you

0:36:11.119,0:36:15.200

could possibly want

0:36:12.640,0:36:16.320

and be as pleasurable as you want i

0:36:15.200,0:36:19.920

think that would be

0:36:16.320,0:36:21.839

the way to go because i i just i

0:36:19.920,0:36:23.760

i feel like everything you do like for

0:36:21.839,0:36:25.280

instance like the grind or like the

0:36:23.760,0:36:27.200

hustle you have to do to

0:36:25.280,0:36:28.480

create a successful brand or something

0:36:27.200,0:36:30.800

and then become

0:36:28.480,0:36:32.079

happy about it and stuff i don't

0:36:30.800,0:36:34.640

understand

0:36:32.079,0:36:35.359

what the point of that grind would be if

0:36:34.640,0:36:38.320

you could just

0:36:35.359,0:36:39.200

accelerate to being happy and if someone

0:36:38.320,0:36:40.720

said well

0:36:39.200,0:36:42.079

if you don't have the grind then you

0:36:40.720,0:36:42.480

won't actually get the happiness at the

0:36:42.079,0:36:44.000

end

0:36:42.480,0:36:45.920

well that doesn't matter because this

0:36:44.000,0:36:47.599

experiment just will ignore that you'll

0:36:45.920,0:36:49.839

get the happiness no matter what so

0:36:47.599,0:36:50.640

yeah perfect machine it's a perfect

0:36:49.839,0:36:53.359

scenario

0:36:50.640,0:36:55.359

it is a perfect machine and i feel like

0:36:53.359,0:36:56.560

i could understand someone who said no i

0:36:55.359,0:36:58.720

have attachments here

0:36:56.560,0:37:00.079

like i you know i build up so many

0:36:58.720,0:37:01.920

things in life like

0:37:00.079,0:37:03.359

i've got a job that i'm about to excel

0:37:01.920,0:37:04.079

in if you just give me another month

0:37:03.359,0:37:08.079

i'll get to

0:37:04.079,0:37:08.800

that promotion but i feel like those

0:37:08.079,0:37:11.680

objections

0:37:08.800,0:37:13.359

are a result of someone not fully

0:37:11.680,0:37:16.480

grasping what the machine is

0:37:13.359,0:37:19.119

because you would get that raise in a

0:37:16.480,0:37:21.280

second and you wouldn't feel sadness

0:37:19.119,0:37:22.800

that it's not actually in your real life

0:37:21.280,0:37:24.320

because it would be indistinguishable

0:37:22.800,0:37:25.760

from your real life anyway

0:37:24.320,0:37:27.920

i just feel like it's like an

0:37:25.760,0:37:29.920

unrefutable yes and

0:37:27.920,0:37:31.760

the reason i say that is because if you

0:37:29.920,0:37:33.680

went into the machine and someone said

0:37:31.760,0:37:34.960

hey by the way i think i think you might

0:37:33.680,0:37:37.200

be in a machine mate

0:37:34.960,0:37:38.240

and there's actually like a real world

0:37:37.200,0:37:40.880

outside

0:37:38.240,0:37:42.640

like if we could prank or go on like a

0:37:40.880,0:37:44.320

tv show with like fake cameras and say

0:37:42.640,0:37:46.400

that so like whoever the happiest person

0:37:44.320,0:37:48.560

alive is maybe dan bilzerian

0:37:46.400,0:37:50.079

and say hi by the way you're actually an

0:37:48.560,0:37:52.160

insurance broker in this

0:37:50.079,0:37:53.920

other world and you've got like an

0:37:52.160,0:37:55.920

ex-wife you're paying alimony

0:37:53.920,0:37:57.760

and stuff like that but hey um this

0:37:55.920,0:38:00.000

whole thing that you're doing on

0:37:57.760,0:38:02.240

all those sales ships and cruise ships

0:38:00.000,0:38:03.520

and all the hookers and stuff like that

0:38:02.240,0:38:05.280

doesn't exist

0:38:03.520,0:38:06.880

so if you were you know if you just want

0:38:05.280,0:38:08.720

to get back to your insurance

0:38:06.880,0:38:10.640

thing you're happy with that yep and he

0:38:08.720,0:38:12.560

says no

0:38:10.640,0:38:13.839

i feel like you would have to say no to

0:38:12.560,0:38:15.760

that and

0:38:13.839,0:38:17.920

like i just i just think if if you if

0:38:15.760,0:38:19.760

you would unrefutably say no when you go

0:38:17.920,0:38:22.400

into it then you should say

0:38:19.760,0:38:24.320

yes to go into it yeah i don't know if

0:38:22.400,0:38:24.640

it's perfect then yeah i totally agree

0:38:24.320,0:38:26.240

yeah

0:38:24.640,0:38:27.680

you know it bring it brings to mind a

0:38:26.240,0:38:29.440

couple of thoughts i guess like the

0:38:27.680,0:38:30.640

first thing that you kind of think about

0:38:29.440,0:38:32.640

is the matrix yeah

0:38:30.640,0:38:34.480

right because like you have you have a

0:38:32.640,0:38:36.320

world but i think i have a

0:38:34.480,0:38:38.160

better example for that there's a movie

0:38:36.320,0:38:40.079

very similar to the matrix i think it

0:38:38.160,0:38:42.240

actually went a couple of years before

0:38:40.079,0:38:43.200

that i don't remember exactly the name

0:38:42.240,0:38:44.800

of it but

0:38:43.200,0:38:46.240

it's in a pretty similar concept you

0:38:44.800,0:38:49.280

know someone is living this

0:38:46.240,0:38:51.440

in this perfect world and he

0:38:49.280,0:38:52.640

feel he or she i don't remember who the

0:38:51.440,0:38:55.599

protagonist is

0:38:52.640,0:38:57.599

um but they feel that something is wrong

0:38:55.599,0:38:59.760

and they get these flashbacks

0:38:57.599,0:39:01.520

that this isn't the real world there

0:38:59.760,0:39:05.280

it's actually a projection

0:39:01.520,0:39:07.680

on top of this really post-apocalyptic

0:39:05.280,0:39:08.960

world and that's like very similar to

0:39:07.680,0:39:11.760

the metrics right they

0:39:08.960,0:39:12.880

they kind of go out of the matrix they

0:39:11.760,0:39:15.440

find out that there's

0:39:12.880,0:39:16.240

this whole resistance and they want to

0:39:15.440,0:39:18.560

destroy

0:39:16.240,0:39:20.480

uh you know transmitters in order to

0:39:18.560,0:39:23.440

make everyone see real life

0:39:20.480,0:39:24.079

and eventually when they do succeed in

0:39:23.440,0:39:27.280

breaking

0:39:24.079,0:39:29.440

those transmitters they realize that

0:39:27.280,0:39:31.200

it's even not a post-apocalyptic world

0:39:29.440,0:39:33.680

it's just like this

0:39:31.200,0:39:35.119

really simple world that everyone

0:39:33.680,0:39:37.599

everyone carries

0:39:35.119,0:39:39.200

like these boxes with barcodes and

0:39:37.599,0:39:40.480

according to the bar code you see what

0:39:39.200,0:39:42.160

you want to see

0:39:40.480,0:39:44.640

and this whole concept of the

0:39:42.160,0:39:47.359

post-apocalyptic world it's also

0:39:44.640,0:39:48.560

something that some people need some

0:39:47.359,0:39:51.119

people do need

0:39:48.560,0:39:53.040

to feel that their their rebels they're

0:39:51.119,0:39:53.760

are actually working hard in order to

0:39:53.040,0:39:56.000

get

0:39:53.760,0:39:57.680

the thing that they want and and that it

0:39:56.000,0:40:01.040

shouldn't come easily

0:39:57.680,0:40:04.640

i think in a way we kind of

0:40:01.040,0:40:06.560

hold sacred the whole effort that we put

0:40:04.640,0:40:09.680

into things that make us happy

0:40:06.560,0:40:10.640

because we will just feel very sucky if

0:40:09.680,0:40:12.640

we know that

0:40:10.640,0:40:14.079

that we don't have to put this effort

0:40:12.640,0:40:14.960

you need to have the feeling that you've

0:40:14.079,0:40:17.920

worked for it

0:40:14.960,0:40:19.280

yeah so we kind of give an additional

0:40:17.920,0:40:21.680

value to it because it's

0:40:19.280,0:40:23.200

you will go mad if if you won't give

0:40:21.680,0:40:25.839

that effort some kind of

0:40:23.200,0:40:27.520

additional value it's seven o'clock in

0:40:25.839,0:40:30.480

the morning it's a weekend

0:40:27.520,0:40:32.079

and you're feeling like i really don't

0:40:30.480,0:40:33.359

want to go to the gym but you know what

0:40:32.079,0:40:35.839

this is the grind

0:40:33.359,0:40:37.760

and you decide to go you get there and

0:40:35.839,0:40:38.000

you feel really good that you got out of

0:40:37.760,0:40:40.640

bed

0:40:38.000,0:40:42.079

like the struggle actually somehow made

0:40:40.640,0:40:44.319

it better when you were there

0:40:42.079,0:40:46.319

if it was so effortless to go get out of

0:40:44.319,0:40:46.720

bed it actually wouldn't have felt as

0:40:46.319,0:40:49.839

good

0:40:46.720,0:40:52.560

right now apply that to your whole life

0:40:49.839,0:40:53.680

right and they could program that into

0:40:52.560,0:40:55.440

the machine so

0:40:53.680,0:40:56.800

you don't even need to have this feeling

0:40:55.440,0:40:57.520

that you haven't even worked for the

0:40:56.800,0:40:59.839

pleasure

0:40:57.520,0:41:00.560

you would have the exact calculated

0:40:59.839,0:41:02.560

amount

0:41:00.560,0:41:04.160

that would make you feel like you earned

0:41:02.560,0:41:05.119

the pleasure because that would just be

0:41:04.160,0:41:08.400

more pleasure

0:41:05.119,0:41:10.160

yeah basically now we put value into the

0:41:08.400,0:41:12.160

effort because we don't have a choice

0:41:10.160,0:41:14.560

but you could even have the feeling of

0:41:12.160,0:41:17.599

not having a choice and overcome it

0:41:14.560,0:41:19.680

and then better like have yeah so for

0:41:17.599,0:41:20.960

instance like any dead weight like say

0:41:19.680,0:41:22.079

for instance there's like a certain

0:41:20.960,0:41:24.640

amount of

0:41:22.079,0:41:26.240

difficulty that would require you to

0:41:24.640,0:41:29.440

sort of go through

0:41:26.240,0:41:31.359

and to get this like new

0:41:29.440,0:41:33.119

value of like sort of overcoming

0:41:31.359,0:41:35.760

adversity to do something right

0:41:33.119,0:41:37.119

but if there's any extra difficulty that

0:41:35.760,0:41:38.720

you don't need that's not going to

0:41:37.119,0:41:40.720

produce any more

0:41:38.720,0:41:41.920

sort of benefit at the end that's just

0:41:40.720,0:41:44.000

like stripped off like

0:41:41.920,0:41:46.000

like fat you know that's just dead

0:41:44.000,0:41:48.079

weight for the calculation

0:41:46.000,0:41:49.440

so you would only go through exactly

0:41:48.079,0:41:51.359

what you'd need to go through

0:41:49.440,0:41:52.960

to be able to get that everlasting sort

0:41:51.359,0:41:54.319

of like feeling that you've accomplished

0:41:52.960,0:41:57.200

something

0:41:54.319,0:41:58.720

so yeah i like this machine please sign

0:41:57.200,0:42:01.680

me up

0:41:58.720,0:42:02.880

yeah i keep thinking about what if i you

0:42:01.680,0:42:04.560

know tell the scientists

0:42:02.880,0:42:06.000

the people who operate the machine

0:42:04.560,0:42:07.359

exactly what i want and then i go in

0:42:06.000,0:42:10.160

there and i find out

0:42:07.359,0:42:10.560

well you don't want that yeah maybe

0:42:10.160,0:42:12.560

you're

0:42:10.560,0:42:14.319

the the operator and you for years

0:42:12.560,0:42:16.000

you're accumulating ideas of like the

0:42:14.319,0:42:19.040

perfect world because they keep hearing

0:42:16.000,0:42:19.680

of them this is actually there's an

0:42:19.040,0:42:21.920

interesting

0:42:19.680,0:42:23.680

um philosopher his name is peter singer

0:42:21.920,0:42:24.880

i think he's australian actually

0:42:23.680,0:42:27.280

he used to pick what they called a

0:42:24.880,0:42:29.440

preference utilitarianist so

0:42:27.280,0:42:31.119

basically you have preferences you know

0:42:29.440,0:42:31.599

to like get married and all these things

0:42:31.119,0:42:33.280

like

0:42:31.599,0:42:34.720

a lot of them are basic needs a lot of

0:42:33.280,0:42:36.960

them are more complex you know

0:42:34.720,0:42:38.319

everyone has their sort of preferences

0:42:36.960,0:42:39.839

of what they want to happen

0:42:38.319,0:42:41.359

you could just imagine it as a million

0:42:39.839,0:42:43.440

different possible lives

0:42:41.359,0:42:45.040

and they just rank them right and this

0:42:43.440,0:42:46.079

isn't something you consciously do this

0:42:45.040,0:42:49.040

is something more

0:42:46.079,0:42:50.640

under the surface say for instance

0:42:49.040,0:42:52.400

someone said

0:42:50.640,0:42:54.640

so this isn't on the surface anymore but

0:42:52.400,0:42:56.000

they try to articulate exactly what they

0:42:54.640,0:42:59.359

want their life to be

0:42:56.000,0:43:01.359

and you give them that life and they're

0:42:59.359,0:43:02.720

pretty happy but like there's things

0:43:01.359,0:43:04.480

that they probably

0:43:02.720,0:43:06.160

could experience that were better than

0:43:04.480,0:43:09.440

what they explained

0:43:06.160,0:43:10.960

that they wanted right now he converted

0:43:09.440,0:43:12.079

from that which is a preference

0:43:10.960,0:43:15.119

utilitarian

0:43:12.079,0:43:16.079

to a hedonistic utilitarian which is

0:43:15.119,0:43:18.480

basically

0:43:16.079,0:43:20.240

fuck your preferences you're going to

0:43:18.480,0:43:24.240

have exactly what's going to make

0:43:20.240,0:43:24.640

you have most um pleasurable experiences

0:43:24.240,0:43:26.319

right

0:43:24.640,0:43:28.319

so that's kind of my stance as well so

0:43:26.319,0:43:28.960

this one is sort of agnostic towards

0:43:28.319,0:43:30.720

whether

0:43:28.960,0:43:32.960

you would actually be able to make these

0:43:30.720,0:43:34.800

things yourself but i would say like

0:43:32.960,0:43:36.800

it'd just be scientists probing the

0:43:34.800,0:43:39.040

pleasure center of your brain

0:43:36.800,0:43:40.640

and then whatever happens in your brain

0:43:39.040,0:43:42.400

is just whatever happens like

0:43:40.640,0:43:44.240

whatever your brain does to sort of

0:43:42.400,0:43:44.480

rationalize why you're feeling like that

0:43:44.240,0:43:45.920

i

0:43:44.480,0:43:47.599

imagine it would be sort of like a dream

0:43:45.920,0:43:51.040

that you experience

0:43:47.599,0:43:51.520

quite vividly and it's just them probing

0:43:51.040,0:43:53.599

you

0:43:51.520,0:43:55.760

it's just like a simple sort of like a

0:43:53.599,0:43:57.839

an electrode just constantly going off

0:43:55.760,0:43:59.040

and your brain just has to create the

0:43:57.839,0:44:01.119

scenario itself

0:43:59.040,0:44:02.160

so in the same way that our brain

0:44:01.119,0:44:04.160

creates narrative

0:44:02.160,0:44:05.200

in the real world where there's probably

0:44:04.160,0:44:07.280

not one

0:44:05.200,0:44:08.720

like saying someone fits the profile for

0:44:07.280,0:44:10.960

a crime because they just

0:44:08.720,0:44:11.920

that's just what their brain has come to

0:44:10.960,0:44:13.760

then i feel like

0:44:11.920,0:44:15.119

there'd be a same thing where because

0:44:13.760,0:44:16.319

you're feeling really great about

0:44:15.119,0:44:18.319

something your brain would have to

0:44:16.319,0:44:21.839

create sort of this whole story

0:44:18.319,0:44:24.079

i feel like that's preferable to then

0:44:21.839,0:44:25.520

you can be the one to like because i

0:44:24.079,0:44:26.079

just think people are mistaken about

0:44:25.520,0:44:28.319

what they

0:44:26.079,0:44:29.280

think they want so i still agree okay so

0:44:28.319,0:44:31.650

that's all of them

0:44:29.280,0:44:34.000

hopefully an illusion man

0:44:31.650,0:44:36.240

[Music]

0:44:34.000,0:44:38.079

well i got one more thing right have you

0:44:36.240,0:44:38.800

heard about elon musk how he's banging

0:44:38.079,0:44:41.280

on about

0:44:38.800,0:44:42.079

we're in a simulation not not from elon

0:44:41.280,0:44:44.480

musk but

0:44:42.079,0:44:45.280

you know there's the simulation theory

0:44:44.480,0:44:48.000

yeah i think

0:44:45.280,0:44:48.800

he's basically on that chain yeah so

0:44:48.000,0:44:50.880

basically

0:44:48.800,0:44:52.720

there's two things right we can we can

0:44:50.880,0:44:54.079

either i don't totally agree with this

0:44:52.720,0:44:57.040

so i'm going to try to put in

0:44:54.079,0:44:57.680

some zazz in it but we will eventually

0:44:57.040,0:44:59.920

create

0:44:57.680,0:45:01.040

vr or whatever you want to call it

0:44:59.920,0:45:03.359

that's just

0:45:01.040,0:45:04.480

so damn good that you just won't even

0:45:03.359,0:45:07.440

know that

0:45:04.480,0:45:09.119

you'd be in a simulation right and

0:45:07.440,0:45:11.280

compared to the real world you can make

0:45:09.119,0:45:12.400

as many simulations as you want like it

0:45:11.280,0:45:14.319

could be like a just an

0:45:12.400,0:45:15.599

open source google doc where there's

0:45:14.319,0:45:17.680

just a million of them

0:45:15.599,0:45:19.200

right and they say oh look at this look

0:45:17.680,0:45:21.599

at this freaking weird one look at

0:45:19.200,0:45:23.760

what happens in 2020 in this simulation

0:45:21.599,0:45:26.720

like bloody bushfire and then

0:45:23.760,0:45:27.760

covered pandemic and black lives matter

0:45:26.720,0:45:29.119

protests you know like

0:45:27.760,0:45:32.480

holy shit let's run that one see what

0:45:29.119,0:45:34.079

happens don't forget the murder hornets

0:45:32.480,0:45:35.920

um look at the redskins changing their

0:45:34.079,0:45:38.960

name yeah well um anyway

0:45:35.920,0:45:41.040

so just a bunch of crazy shit right

0:45:38.960,0:45:42.000

so there's many more simulations that

0:45:41.040,0:45:45.119

you can create than

0:45:42.000,0:45:45.760

more universes right and elon musk is

0:45:45.119,0:45:47.440

saying well

0:45:45.760,0:45:50.000

what are the chances where we're in the

0:45:47.440,0:45:53.040

one universe we're probably the damn

0:45:50.000,0:45:55.040

little things in the simulation like

0:45:53.040,0:45:56.160

to think we're in the real universe is

0:45:55.040,0:45:59.359

mighty high of us

0:45:56.160,0:46:01.359

you know because if there's a billion

0:45:59.359,0:46:02.560

worlds to be in and you think you're in

0:46:01.359,0:46:05.200

the one that's

0:46:02.560,0:46:06.640

was made first and we haven't even got

0:46:05.200,0:46:09.760

to the simulation bit

0:46:06.640,0:46:12.160

that's a very low probability right now

0:46:09.760,0:46:13.839

i want to add to that and say say this

0:46:12.160,0:46:16.079

podcast goes viral

0:46:13.839,0:46:17.440

right and everyone knows what the

0:46:16.079,0:46:19.599

experience machine is

0:46:17.440,0:46:20.480

and we create an experience machine

0:46:19.599,0:46:23.040

right

0:46:20.480,0:46:24.160

amazon prime big machine you're getting

0:46:23.040,0:46:27.920

it right

0:46:24.160,0:46:28.720

but if everyone's in that surely this

0:46:27.920,0:46:30.480

isn't like

0:46:28.720,0:46:32.960

except for this podcast of course but

0:46:30.480,0:46:34.240

surely my life is exactly

0:46:32.960,0:46:36.400

what's going to make me the most

0:46:34.240,0:46:36.880

pleasurable unless for some reason this

0:46:36.400,0:46:39.200

is just

0:46:36.880,0:46:40.480

what the height of pleasure is like for

0:46:39.200,0:46:42.240

some reason like

0:46:40.480,0:46:43.920

everything i'm doing in my life like

0:46:42.240,0:46:46.000

waking up at 7 00 a.m for the gym

0:46:43.920,0:46:47.040

is just the most pleasurable thing but i

0:46:46.000,0:46:49.280

kind of refuse

0:46:47.040,0:46:50.079

to believe that just for my own you know

0:46:49.280,0:46:52.560

mental health

0:46:50.079,0:46:54.079

so like if we have if we can create

0:46:52.560,0:46:55.359

simulations surely we can create

0:46:54.079,0:46:58.000

experience machines

0:46:55.359,0:46:59.359

and if i'm not feeling like i'm in

0:46:58.000,0:47:02.400

absolute bullies

0:46:59.359,0:47:04.880

then surely there's something wrong we

0:47:02.400,0:47:05.680

we probably aren't at the stage maybe we

0:47:04.880,0:47:07.200

are in the

0:47:05.680,0:47:09.440

this is sort of like the reverse of the

0:47:07.200,0:47:12.400

simulation theory this is saying well

0:47:09.440,0:47:13.200

if there is a world and there's a

0:47:12.400,0:47:15.040

billion

0:47:13.200,0:47:17.040

experiences that you can have because

0:47:15.040,0:47:18.880

they're all inexperienced machines

0:47:17.040,0:47:21.119

and you're born into this world which

0:47:18.880,0:47:23.359

isn't blissful if you assume it's a

0:47:21.119,0:47:23.839

logical step to take for humanity to get

0:47:23.359,0:47:25.680

into

0:47:23.839,0:47:27.359

to build and get in an experience

0:47:25.680,0:47:28.640

machine maybe that's

0:47:27.359,0:47:30.240

proof that you're in the original

0:47:28.640,0:47:32.079

universe that hasn't made the machine

0:47:30.240,0:47:34.480

yet well actually now i think about it

0:47:32.079,0:47:36.240

my experience machine add-on to the

0:47:34.480,0:47:38.400

doesn't really make sense because if you

0:47:36.240,0:47:39.520

think about it if they're in control of

0:47:38.400,0:47:41.520

the simulations

0:47:39.520,0:47:43.359

then it would probably be pretty boring

0:47:41.520,0:47:45.200

just for them to make a simulation where

0:47:43.359,0:47:47.280

everyone gets an experience machine

0:47:45.200,0:47:48.880

so i mean i assume there'd be like an

0:47:47.280,0:47:50.480

altruistic movement or something where

0:47:48.880,0:47:52.559

they say we should make this

0:47:50.480,0:47:54.640

but it would be more interesting to have

0:47:52.559,0:47:55.839

like oh what happens if we had this

0:47:54.640,0:47:58.079

weird country right

0:47:55.839,0:47:59.280

it was just ruled by one person and no

0:47:58.079,0:48:02.079

one could go in and out

0:47:59.280,0:48:03.920

and we'll call it something like korea

0:48:02.079,0:48:06.160

like a north korea or something

0:48:03.920,0:48:07.839

and that would be like awesome you know

0:48:06.160,0:48:09.119

like i

0:48:07.839,0:48:10.190

it's looking more and more like a

0:48:09.119,0:48:12.079

simulation

0:48:10.190,0:48:14.480

[Laughter]

0:48:12.079,0:48:15.839

you know the reality is is beyond

0:48:14.480,0:48:17.760

imagination right

0:48:15.839,0:48:19.119

it's like the best story that you could

0:48:17.760,0:48:20.880

it's a good place

0:48:19.119,0:48:23.119

the more you think about life the more

0:48:20.880,0:48:24.720

you think about it would be pretty funny

0:48:23.119,0:48:27.040

to make a simulation of it

0:48:24.720,0:48:35.599

yeah it's like when comedians ran out of

0:48:27.040,0:48:38.319

jokes once donald trump got elected

0:48:35.599,0:48:39.040

so cowboy bebop is an anime sci-fi

0:48:38.319,0:48:41.119

western

0:48:39.040,0:48:42.880

that follows the crew of the bebop which

0:48:41.119,0:48:45.119

in the first episode is made up of

0:48:42.880,0:48:46.319

jet and spike but after a while they

0:48:45.119,0:48:49.400

pick up ein

0:48:46.319,0:48:52.800

fey and it takes place in the year

0:48:49.400,0:48:55.119

2071 and it's set in the inner solar

0:48:52.800,0:48:57.040

system the show was created by

0:48:55.119,0:48:59.839

shinichiro watanabe

0:48:57.040,0:49:01.200

under sunrise studio and first aired in

0:48:59.839,0:49:02.960

1997

0:49:01.200,0:49:05.440

it's considered to be the show that made

0:49:02.960,0:49:07.520

anime accessible in the west

0:49:05.440,0:49:09.920

and it takes inspiration from a lot of

0:49:07.520,0:49:11.839

western movies a lot of western music

0:49:09.920,0:49:13.359

and it mixes them up in kind of

0:49:11.839,0:49:15.760

unexpected ways

0:49:13.359,0:49:16.480

in this universe to keep the the peace

0:49:15.760,0:49:19.280

in the

0:49:16.480,0:49:21.920

inner solar system the inner solar

0:49:19.280,0:49:23.520

system police or the issp

0:49:21.920,0:49:25.839

are offering bounties for wanted

0:49:23.520,0:49:26.800

criminals and the crew of the bebop are

0:49:25.839,0:49:29.280

bounty hunters

0:49:26.800,0:49:31.359

or cowboys uh that's the name of bounty

0:49:29.280,0:49:34.000

hunters in this universe

0:49:31.359,0:49:34.720

in most of the 26 episodes of the show

0:49:34.000,0:49:37.520

the crew

0:49:34.720,0:49:38.880

is trying to capture a bounty and more

0:49:37.520,0:49:42.559

often than not the bounty

0:49:38.880,0:49:45.680

either gets away or dies in the process

0:49:42.559,0:49:47.119

so the crew stays poor and hungry the

0:49:45.680,0:49:50.160

heroes of the show are

0:49:47.119,0:49:52.640

kind of losers uh in a way and now

0:49:50.160,0:49:54.720

whenever they're not chasing a bounty

0:49:52.640,0:49:56.000

they don't have anything to do really

0:49:54.720,0:49:58.559

like they're seen

0:49:56.000,0:49:59.040

floating around in space aimlessly and

0:49:58.559,0:50:01.440

bored

0:49:59.040,0:50:03.119

to death and the episodes are filled

0:50:01.440,0:50:03.920

with all kinds of philosophical ideas

0:50:03.119,0:50:05.280

and themes and

0:50:03.920,0:50:07.760

every once in a while will learn more

0:50:05.280,0:50:09.359

about the past of each of the characters

0:50:07.760,0:50:11.280

and it feels that you know little by

0:50:09.359,0:50:14.079

little each of the characters

0:50:11.280,0:50:14.640

becomes deeper so i'm really interested

0:50:14.079,0:50:16.319

to know

0:50:14.640,0:50:18.000

what are your general thoughts how how

0:50:16.319,0:50:19.200

did you experience this and also i'd

0:50:18.000,0:50:21.359

really like to know

0:50:19.200,0:50:22.319

like how you experienced this because

0:50:21.359,0:50:24.720

did you guys

0:50:22.319,0:50:25.440

watch the the japanese version with uh

0:50:24.720,0:50:28.480

subs

0:50:25.440,0:50:31.520

or did you get the dubbed version so

0:50:28.480,0:50:33.440

i actually watched some

0:50:31.520,0:50:35.119

in english some in japanese with a

0:50:33.440,0:50:38.319

subtitle really yeah

0:50:35.119,0:50:39.200

i have a computer next to my tv and the

0:50:38.319,0:50:42.240

couch is

0:50:39.200,0:50:44.559

like on the other side so when i put

0:50:42.240,0:50:46.240

when i put an episode it's kind of like

0:50:44.559,0:50:49.520

because the default track was

0:50:46.240,0:50:52.640

was the english one so i

0:50:49.520,0:50:55.040

not always had the notion of of uh

0:50:52.640,0:50:56.720

of actually changing the track to to the

0:50:55.040,0:50:59.839

japanese one it's a lot of motivation

0:50:56.720,0:51:02.000

yeah yeah hard times especially because

0:50:59.839,0:51:03.520

i pretty much ended watching this series

0:51:02.000,0:51:04.640

a couple of hours before we started

0:51:03.520,0:51:08.319

recording because i had a

0:51:04.640,0:51:11.119

busy couple of weeks so i just binged

0:51:08.319,0:51:12.160

most of the series since yesterday

0:51:11.119,0:51:14.960

afternoon

0:51:12.160,0:51:17.200

i understand the appeal of uh you know

0:51:14.960,0:51:19.839

the original japanese um

0:51:17.200,0:51:20.240

track but i i enjoyed the english one i

0:51:19.839,0:51:23.040

mean

0:51:20.240,0:51:24.400

i understand also you know making it

0:51:23.040,0:51:26.640

accessible to the west

0:51:24.400,0:51:29.040

definitely like maybe that's why i

0:51:26.640,0:51:31.680

enjoyed the the english track because

0:51:29.040,0:51:33.040

it was easier to ingest you know yeah

0:51:31.680,0:51:36.240

and how did you like the show

0:51:33.040,0:51:37.839

i loved it i gotta say that i i think

0:51:36.240,0:51:38.559

it's awesome i understand all the good

0:51:37.839,0:51:40.880

things that i

0:51:38.559,0:51:42.319

heard throughout the years i totally

0:51:40.880,0:51:44.480

understand the appeal

0:51:42.319,0:51:47.200

you know not only that the characters

0:51:44.480,0:51:50.240

are super cool and and everything just

0:51:47.200,0:51:52.640

got this awesome vibe and

0:51:50.240,0:51:53.760

each episode is very different you know

0:51:52.640,0:51:56.880

i don't think there are

0:51:53.760,0:52:00.160

two episodes that that i can put like in

0:51:56.880,0:52:01.200

exactly the same vibe or notion so that

0:52:00.160,0:52:04.079

was very fun like

0:52:01.200,0:52:04.720

every episode is is a new thing and of

0:52:04.079,0:52:06.880

course

0:52:04.720,0:52:08.079

you know the music the music was just

0:52:06.880,0:52:10.319

the soundtrack was just

0:52:08.079,0:52:11.200

awesome yeah yeah the music in the

0:52:10.319,0:52:14.240

fighting scene

0:52:11.200,0:52:16.160

or even the casual vibes and and

0:52:14.240,0:52:17.440

you know sometimes the english tracks

0:52:16.160,0:52:19.520

and just awesome

0:52:17.440,0:52:20.800

i've i've binged the show probably not

0:52:19.520,0:52:22.880

as hard as barrio

0:52:20.800,0:52:24.160

but it's still pretty hard i think i

0:52:22.880,0:52:28.319

watched the first

0:52:24.160,0:52:30.559

two um episodes with the japanese

0:52:28.319,0:52:32.079

and the english subtitles and then i

0:52:30.559,0:52:34.960

switched from then on

0:52:32.079,0:52:35.920

and stuck with the um the english um

0:52:34.960,0:52:37.760

overdub

0:52:35.920,0:52:39.119

which was really good actually sometimes

0:52:37.760,0:52:40.160

when you get an english overdub it's

0:52:39.119,0:52:41.760

sort of

0:52:40.160,0:52:43.280

a bit basic but this one was really

0:52:41.760,0:52:44.319

awesome actually they put a lot of

0:52:43.280,0:52:46.079

effort into it

0:52:44.319,0:52:48.480

so yeah i ended up watching probably the

0:52:46.079,0:52:51.760

last 22 episodes

0:52:48.480,0:52:53.599

in this last week so i was like watching

0:52:51.760,0:52:56.960

like five or six episodes today

0:52:53.599,0:52:59.280

i've gotta say i really enjoyed it and

0:52:56.960,0:53:00.240

i can understand the appeal i can

0:52:59.280,0:53:02.240

understand why

0:53:00.240,0:53:04.000

westerners will like it not sure if

0:53:02.240,0:53:04.480

japanese people will like it as much

0:53:04.000,0:53:06.960

because it

0:53:04.480,0:53:08.000

is very western and as barry has said

0:53:06.960,0:53:10.880

it's it's got

0:53:08.000,0:53:11.680

such diversity in the episodes my

0:53:10.880,0:53:15.200

favorite ones

0:53:11.680,0:53:18.000

were by far the ones that either worked

0:53:15.200,0:53:20.880

with one specific character like um

0:53:18.000,0:53:21.440

spike's backstory or um phase sort of

0:53:20.880,0:53:24.800

past

0:53:21.440,0:53:26.160

um jets spike and fey probably had the

0:53:24.800,0:53:28.960

most backstory

0:53:26.160,0:53:30.720

or the most in fleshed out i think i i

0:53:28.960,0:53:33.280

connected a little bit less with ed

0:53:30.720,0:53:35.520

and iron well yeah i didn't mention it

0:53:33.280,0:53:38.079

in the intro but ayn is a dog

0:53:35.520,0:53:39.520

i connected a little bit less with ed um

0:53:38.079,0:53:41.680

compared to the other characters

0:53:39.520,0:53:42.800

but yeah i think i could pick out

0:53:41.680,0:53:46.880

probably

0:53:42.800,0:53:48.480

10 episodes which i absolutely loved and

0:53:46.880,0:53:50.000

there's so many different reasons why i

0:53:48.480,0:53:51.760

liked them but as

0:53:50.000,0:53:53.920

barry was saying like some of the some

0:53:51.760,0:53:56.160

of the ways they ended the episodes with

0:53:53.920,0:53:57.440

like a long fighting scene when there

0:53:56.160,0:54:00.160

was music

0:53:57.440,0:54:01.680

it was emotional it was it was and when

0:54:00.160,0:54:03.440

i mean emotional i don't mean like

0:54:01.680,0:54:06.079

crying or anything i just mean like

0:54:03.440,0:54:06.480

really just engaged and like on the edge

0:54:06.079,0:54:10.319

of my

0:54:06.480,0:54:12.480

seat and just i was just amazed at some

0:54:10.319,0:54:14.160

some of the fighting scenes the pairing

0:54:12.480,0:54:17.520

with the music mostly

0:54:14.160,0:54:18.079

and uh yeah i would say i definitely in

0:54:17.520,0:54:20.480

the like

0:54:18.079,0:54:22.079

category i i really liked it cool i

0:54:20.480,0:54:24.000

watched like two episodes a day

0:54:22.079,0:54:25.760

fairly consistently it like became kind

0:54:24.000,0:54:28.480

of part of my routine

0:54:25.760,0:54:30.240

and i watched it in japanese with the

0:54:28.480,0:54:32.640

subtitles in english subtitles

0:54:30.240,0:54:34.079

because like i haven't watched a lot of

0:54:32.640,0:54:36.720

animes in my life or

0:54:34.079,0:54:37.520

any at all but i keep hearing the the

0:54:36.720,0:54:39.599

sentence

0:54:37.520,0:54:40.720

subs over dubs because like people

0:54:39.599,0:54:43.040

always prefer

0:54:40.720,0:54:43.760

the the original language and just it

0:54:43.040,0:54:45.599

subs to it

0:54:43.760,0:54:47.200

so i finished the 26 episodes watching

0:54:45.599,0:54:48.880

it in japanese and then i started

0:54:47.200,0:54:50.559

watching stuff on youtube and what other

0:54:48.880,0:54:52.799

people think about the show and

0:54:50.559,0:54:55.040

the english dub is considered to be a

0:54:52.799,0:54:57.359

very very good one like um

0:54:55.040,0:54:58.319

because they did put a lot of work into

0:54:57.359,0:55:00.880

it they really

0:54:58.319,0:55:01.440

stuck to the original so i did go back

0:55:00.880,0:55:04.000

and watch

0:55:01.440,0:55:05.920

watched a few episodes in english and to

0:55:04.000,0:55:06.480

me i don't know i i like the japanese

0:55:05.920,0:55:08.319

better

0:55:06.480,0:55:11.520

but it might have been because i got

0:55:08.319,0:55:14.000

used to it and then later i got into the

0:55:11.520,0:55:14.720

cowboy bebop discord server and a lot of

0:55:14.000,0:55:17.839

people there

0:55:14.720,0:55:19.520

do prefer the english version but so

0:55:17.839,0:55:22.079

a few minutes after i finished the last

0:55:19.520,0:55:23.359

episode i sent this text to my

0:55:22.079,0:55:25.200

girlfriend i wrote

0:55:23.359,0:55:26.720

i think it's a really interesting show

0:55:25.200,0:55:27.680

the moral of the stories and the

0:55:26.720,0:55:30.000

philosophy that is

0:55:27.680,0:55:30.880

in the episodes is really kind of subtle

0:55:30.000,0:55:32.880

so if you rush

0:55:30.880,0:55:34.400

through it kind of watching episode

0:55:32.880,0:55:36.960

after episode of their episode

0:55:34.400,0:55:37.839

then i can see why it might feel a bit

0:55:36.960,0:55:39.839

empty

0:55:37.839,0:55:41.040

but i feel like there's a lot more left

0:55:39.839,0:55:42.720

to say

0:55:41.040,0:55:44.400

and you know then i thought about it and

0:55:42.720,0:55:45.920

i had to admit that like i kind of

0:55:44.400,0:55:48.400

rushed through the show

0:55:45.920,0:55:50.079

which i regret a bit like i i think that

0:55:48.400,0:55:51.280

a lot of the episodes end with this kind

0:55:50.079,0:55:53.359

of somber tone

0:55:51.280,0:55:54.319

and instead of taking the time to enjoy

0:55:53.359,0:55:56.880

it i sometimes

0:55:54.319,0:55:57.920

just jumped back in and watched another

0:55:56.880,0:56:00.559

episode

0:55:57.920,0:56:01.359

i kind of wish i watched you know just

0:56:00.559,0:56:03.119

one episode

0:56:01.359,0:56:05.440

and then let it sink in and then watch

0:56:03.119,0:56:07.359

another episode and let it sink in

0:56:05.440,0:56:08.480

later that day i started my you know

0:56:07.359,0:56:11.119

kind of research

0:56:08.480,0:56:12.799

about the show and it might be funny but

0:56:11.119,0:56:14.000

my enjoyment from the show on a scale

0:56:12.799,0:56:16.480

from 1 to 10

0:56:14.000,0:56:17.440

was always between five and six the last

0:56:16.480,0:56:19.440

three episodes

0:56:17.440,0:56:20.799

i really loved them on the scale it

0:56:19.440,0:56:23.839

would be somewhere around

0:56:20.799,0:56:25.440

eight or nine and then reading and you

0:56:23.839,0:56:28.480

know watching stuff about the show

0:56:25.440,0:56:31.200

after the show to me was around 10

0:56:28.480,0:56:31.680

and now i can't wait to go back and and

0:56:31.200,0:56:33.440

watch

0:56:31.680,0:56:34.960

all of it again because it's part of me

0:56:33.440,0:56:36.720

now and

0:56:34.960,0:56:38.079

i keep listening to the soundtrack and i

0:56:36.720,0:56:39.359

keep reading about it and i keep

0:56:38.079,0:56:42.240

thinking about it and it's

0:56:39.359,0:56:42.880

i just loved it and something about it

0:56:42.240,0:56:45.280

is

0:56:42.880,0:56:46.000

really subtle you know like it's it's

0:56:45.280,0:56:48.079

always

0:56:46.000,0:56:49.920

i don't know underground the things that

0:56:48.079,0:56:53.040

goes on with this show because like

0:56:49.920,0:56:54.559

like i said peter ed wasn't my favorite

0:56:53.040,0:56:57.040

character you know it wasn't that

0:56:54.559,0:56:58.880

ed to me was a fun character it was

0:56:57.040,0:57:00.559

enjoyable it was kind of the comic

0:56:58.880,0:57:03.119

relief maybe sometimes

0:57:00.559,0:57:04.559

so i didn't connect to her too much but

0:57:03.119,0:57:06.880

the episode where she left

0:57:04.559,0:57:07.920

at the end i was almost crying like

0:57:06.880,0:57:10.079

literally i was

0:57:07.920,0:57:12.640

i was so sad when it happened and and

0:57:10.079,0:57:13.200

there was in episode 24 out of 26 and

0:57:12.640,0:57:15.440

then

0:57:13.200,0:57:16.480

when she left and i realized how much of

0:57:15.440,0:57:19.680

an impact

0:57:16.480,0:57:21.760

that had on me i was just in it

0:57:19.680,0:57:23.359

just to break it down a little bit more

0:57:21.760,0:57:25.280

i thought the first probably eight or

0:57:23.359,0:57:26.000

nine episodes i didn't really feel

0:57:25.280,0:57:29.280

connected to

0:57:26.000,0:57:30.160

it that much i i didn't really have high

0:57:29.280,0:57:32.880

hopes for it

0:57:30.160,0:57:33.760

to be honest um but then i got to

0:57:32.880,0:57:35.599

episode 10

0:57:33.760,0:57:36.880

which was i think it's pronounced

0:57:35.599,0:57:39.359

ganymede

0:57:36.880,0:57:40.559

um elegy again i mean elegy i think

0:57:39.359,0:57:43.359

elegy sorry

0:57:40.559,0:57:44.799

um it was the one with um jett and his

0:57:43.359,0:57:47.359

ex-girlfriend alyssa

0:57:44.799,0:57:49.119

and um that one was like the first one

0:57:47.359,0:57:50.480

for me that felt like really

0:57:49.119,0:57:51.839

i guess they were character driven

0:57:50.480,0:57:52.799

before that but that was the first one

0:57:51.839,0:57:55.680

that really hit home

0:57:52.799,0:57:56.480

for me and then my favorite episode toys

0:57:55.680,0:57:58.319

in the attic

0:57:56.480,0:58:00.079

um was the next one which reminded me of

0:57:58.319,0:58:01.200

one of the firefly episodes it reminded

0:58:00.079,0:58:03.200

me a little bit about the

0:58:01.200,0:58:05.119

um the one where they're running out of

0:58:03.200,0:58:05.839

oxygen is that the one with the fridge

0:58:05.119,0:58:07.599

um

0:58:05.839,0:58:09.119

yeah yeah that's the one with the fridge

0:58:07.599,0:58:11.520

really good and then the after that

0:58:09.119,0:58:14.240

jupiter jazz was two parts and

0:58:11.520,0:58:15.200

yeah just from then onwards i just i

0:58:14.240,0:58:17.440

went from not

0:58:15.200,0:58:19.280

liking it too much like i didn't have i

0:58:17.440,0:58:21.520

didn't dislike it

0:58:19.280,0:58:23.280

but i just didn't like it i was sort of

0:58:21.520,0:58:24.160

just just non-committal about the whole

0:58:23.280,0:58:26.799

thing

0:58:24.160,0:58:28.240

um yeah so from 10 i just really start

0:58:26.799,0:58:30.720

to enjoy it again

0:58:28.240,0:58:33.280

and then around sort of 16 it started

0:58:30.720,0:58:36.640

starts to become a little bit more

0:58:33.280,0:58:39.680

toned down again for me um yeah but 16

0:58:36.640,0:58:42.079

through to sort of um 20 i

0:58:39.680,0:58:43.920

i was sort of i was sort of coming back

0:58:42.079,0:58:46.559

to the stage where

0:58:43.920,0:58:47.359

i wasn't all that pumped about it but i

0:58:46.559,0:58:49.040

knew

0:58:47.359,0:58:50.720

because i had five or six episodes there

0:58:49.040,0:58:52.000

where i really loved it so i knew there

0:58:50.720,0:58:54.720

was something to it

0:58:52.000,0:58:56.400

and then i got to 20 or 21 again and

0:58:54.720,0:58:58.400

then it sort of started to pick up again

0:58:56.400,0:59:01.520

and it ended really strong so

0:58:58.400,0:59:02.640

this is one where i wish because i would

0:59:01.520,0:59:05.359

say maybe 70

0:59:02.640,0:59:07.119

of episodes were very much either to do

0:59:05.359,0:59:09.920

with the main plot which is

0:59:07.119,0:59:10.880

obviously spike and julia and the

0:59:09.920,0:59:13.760

syndicate

0:59:10.880,0:59:14.160

or they were fey or jet episodes you

0:59:13.760,0:59:16.160

know

0:59:14.160,0:59:18.240

and even edward episodes edward has some

0:59:16.160,0:59:20.720

good stuff towards the end right

0:59:18.240,0:59:22.559

but then there's a few episodes in there

0:59:20.720,0:59:25.119

so like the one with the um

0:59:22.559,0:59:27.040

the the chess master or like maybe the

0:59:25.119,0:59:29.599

first three episodes

0:59:27.040,0:59:31.280

the at the casino there's just a few

0:59:29.599,0:59:34.319

which are just a little bit

0:59:31.280,0:59:36.400

too general for me like

0:59:34.319,0:59:37.520

they're good episodes and i know there's

0:59:36.400,0:59:39.359

deep stuff going in

0:59:37.520,0:59:41.119

there that is going to set up for later

0:59:39.359,0:59:43.280

episodes but

0:59:41.119,0:59:44.960

you take those episodes out and it's

0:59:43.280,0:59:46.880

like a flawless season for me

0:59:44.960,0:59:48.079

when they go really well like when

0:59:46.880,0:59:50.400

there's a good episode they

0:59:48.079,0:59:52.640

they start strong they end strong i i

0:59:50.400,0:59:54.640

just love it it's like a 10 out of 10

0:59:52.640,0:59:55.760

but then when it doesn't hit it just

0:59:54.640,0:59:57.760

feels like

0:59:55.760,0:59:59.040

i feel a little bit empty yeah i hear

0:59:57.760,1:00:01.760

what you're saying i think

0:59:59.040,1:00:02.319

the difference that kind of affected me

1:00:01.760,1:00:05.200

is

1:00:02.319,1:00:06.480

that i think i i i'm not sure exactly

1:00:05.200,1:00:08.559

from where but

1:00:06.480,1:00:10.880

i kind of knew that it's gonna be very

1:00:08.559,1:00:13.760

noir and you know things

1:00:10.880,1:00:15.440

that are noir don't really have like

1:00:13.760,1:00:17.920

this really solid point

1:00:15.440,1:00:18.640

they're they're most about you know the

1:00:17.920,1:00:21.040

feelings

1:00:18.640,1:00:24.160

yeah the experience the atmosphere yeah

1:00:21.040,1:00:26.079

the qualia if you want

1:00:24.160,1:00:28.079

the quality that you get in the process

1:00:26.079,1:00:29.520

and again from from my experience from

1:00:28.079,1:00:31.760

north there's not a great

1:00:29.520,1:00:32.720

lesson to be learned at the end of the

1:00:31.760,1:00:35.680

episode and

1:00:32.720,1:00:36.000

there's not a lot of of a character arc

1:00:35.680,1:00:38.480

like

1:00:36.000,1:00:40.480

usually the characters are in the

1:00:38.480,1:00:42.640

beginning are pretty much

1:00:40.480,1:00:44.079

as they're going to be at the end and

1:00:42.640,1:00:47.359

and you're kind of like

1:00:44.079,1:00:47.920

joining along for this specific journey

1:00:47.359,1:00:50.000

and

1:00:47.920,1:00:51.119

and then it all goes back pretty much to

1:00:50.000,1:00:53.920

normal so

1:00:51.119,1:00:55.280

once i knew that i really enjoyed it

1:00:53.920,1:00:57.760

because

1:00:55.280,1:00:59.040

that's the thing i put my focus on i i

1:00:57.760,1:01:01.599

try to put my

1:00:59.040,1:01:02.640

you know my attention on on the on the

1:01:01.599,1:01:05.839

camera angles

1:01:02.640,1:01:07.440

because there's so many artistic angles

1:01:05.839,1:01:08.880

not necessarily things that that

1:01:07.440,1:01:11.599

actually uh put

1:01:08.880,1:01:12.559

something in in the plot or or you know

1:01:11.599,1:01:14.799

push something

1:01:12.559,1:01:15.760

forward but they're just like very

1:01:14.799,1:01:19.040

nuanced

1:01:15.760,1:01:21.440

and they help build this certain

1:01:19.040,1:01:22.960

mood so i think that was done

1:01:21.440,1:01:25.280

brilliantly and i think

1:01:22.960,1:01:26.960

that that once you take this and you

1:01:25.280,1:01:28.960

don't expect

1:01:26.960,1:01:31.200

you don't expect some kind of to learn

1:01:28.960,1:01:34.640

something from it or to get this

1:01:31.200,1:01:36.880

this growth out of it then

1:01:34.640,1:01:38.160

you can really enjoy the journey i think

1:01:36.880,1:01:40.640

like if i look at

1:01:38.160,1:01:41.440

all the four characters the one that

1:01:40.640,1:01:44.079

actually

1:01:41.440,1:01:45.119

has some kind of of a personal growth is

1:01:44.079,1:01:47.680

just fae

1:01:45.119,1:01:49.280