A few years later in 2021 Steven Kotler released a book about peak performance apparently talking a lot about flow, I don't know I haven't read it. [1]

But after that YouTube and social media seemed to explode, showing me lots of things all about flow.

Flow became the go to topic.

A more recent video from Rian Doris claims to show people how to unlock focus on command relating to flow [2]

However as an ecological psychologist I didn't quite agree with some of the claims that were being made in the video.

or some of the claims made about flow and flow states

attuning my attention elsewhere I didn't think much more about it until David and others published an article about flow and issues in the explanations.

Having spoken with David, this video is based on his article linked in the description below with some of our conversation included for more context.

Flow limits

Although the term flow or flow state is popular, the explanations of the experiences are limited

Flow defined by some is an

“enjoyable experience of full absorption in an activity in which the demands are perceived as optimally compatible with one’s skills” [9]

from what I have seen in online and traditional explanations, there are some prerequisites, or things required beforehand

A balance between skill and challenge, a desirable difficulty, requiring clear goals and unambiguous feedback

but the experience is characterized by

distortion of time, merging of action and awareness, concentration on the task at hand, loss of self-consciousness, autotelic experience, and sense of control [10]

but as Swann mentions, this description is more a model rather than a theory. [11]

explaining something requires some border some lines to be drawn for measurement.

a start and stop time.

something too big or too small.

Limits for the measurements.

but each framework that academics construct from these limits have another layer, a metatheory.

The traditional flow models explain human behaviour but from one scale of analysis.

One set of limits.

However David writes

A relevant causal explanation of human behavior or experience requires an understanding of the relationship between insights at many different scales of analysis including sociological, developmental, behavioral, and neural [3]

and as he said in our converastion when we were talking about attention

simplistic explanations - scales

and this references the late Michael Turvey's work on perception [12]

Ecological Psychology explaining perception, different from cognitive psychology, the psychology most traditional explanations use

When looking into flow, consciousness was put inside the head.

our internal representation of the world is our experience.

but this isn't what Ecological Psychologists think

internal representations are often discussed with ideas about limited capacity and inability to process information

flow or the flow state being entirely internal.

residing in mental processes or cognitive mechanisms

but an ecological explanation would look at the organism environment relationship

As a recent review looking at flow experiences and brain activity patterns said

evidence is sparse and inconclusive, with major methodological shortcomings that prevent us from drawing solid conclusions [13]

so the flow states subjective experience relation to neural correlates doesn't look significant.

but that goes against what the popular science communication suggests

Lots of neuroscience jargon is used when flow 'kicks in'
2:20 - 2:40 -> neuroscience jargon

claims that flow can be explained simply by neuroscience

Andrew Huberman has discussed this a few times emphasizing dopamine - something in the brain
huberman talk about dopamine [5]

With various claims about reward systems, which was part of the prerequisites as being internal
its all internal 5:05 -5:30 [5],[6]

However I and other ecological psychologists would suggest the scale.

those limits used for measurement, isn't quite accurate.

instead of internal measurements of the brain, we should be looking broader at the organism environment relationship

internal or external focus

Cognitive psychology

As I alluded to earlier cognitive psychology and other traditional approaches suggest organisms internal representations are their experience of the world

I discuss this further in a previous video discussing direct perception

but combining information theory and these brain models of mental processing lead to frameworks suggesting an input and output

sensory systems for inputs and action systems for outputs

the brain like a computer metaphor used as something to compute or process the information.

a magical black box or as it is often referred to in literature a central executive

Many of the theories prefer linear causes because of this box.

Input with calculation allows us to predict what could happen which educates our actions. The output.

As David writes

Impredicative entailments that involve closed loops between parts and wholes are discouraged because they confound chain-like explanations [14]

something unpredictable or a non-obvious cause would challenge this linear causality explanation.

in Ecological Psychology instead of line a to be to c to d we think of it like a table with legs supporting the behaviour at the top.

not linear causality but non-linear, non-obvious multi-causality

start and stop of flow - not a cause

now this is important because traditional explanations use observations at smaller scales of measurement thus restricting potential causes

organism, person instead of organism environment relationship

this form of explanation reflects the epistemological and ontological stances of the cognitive metatheory and accepts only certain types of (i.e., linear, efficient) causality. [3]

Thus challenges in explaining flow through cognitive psychology approaches could be related to the scale of measurement

The limits researchers put on their studies

mehi chicksentmehi claimed the dynamic interactions should be emphasized, not decontextualized. [15]

The often sited founder of flow suggesting the flow state isn't in a person, or an activity, but in the relationship between them.

Organism environment relationship.

Recent researchers have emphasized it's importance in understanding other aspects of flow like experiences. [16]

This is where many of my questions about flow and the flow state come from.

It is often spoken about as a person getting into flow, or switching into flow. Very little reference to the environment and surrounding context.

on off switch

Rian in his video talks about flow blockers, but what might block one person could help another.

the constraints suggested like, don't go on your phone in the morning, is decontextualized.

I actually find going on my phone in the morning beneficial most of the time, so it doesn't block my flow or focus.

A flow like experience not in me being blocked by something external, but the relationship between me and my environment is what could cause a flow like state.

This is where expertise and individual constraints I think change the practice design, change the things we do.

it requires reference to the performer environment and performer action capabilities

everyone with unique relative perception for action

As ecological psychologists we often refer to Gibson's term of affordances.

For actions to “resonate” with the environment (Csikszentmihalyi & Bennett, 1971) [17] , performers must perceive how features of the environment present opportunities for action, given their own capabilities (Warren, 1984)[18]. [3]

but this ecological concept doesn't work with the current cognitive theories.

the chain like causes from attentional brain functions leading to flow is being challenged by these non linear non obvious causes

flow not having objective predictable rules

an object like a ramp might be too high for some, to low for others but just right for a few.

predicting a flow like state for an individual with the ramp would be relative on how they perceive affordances.

The jump-ability of the ramp.

but this is measured not in the person, but in the person environment system

Measuring flow

However this is difficult because to measure something, a scale needs to be selected.

but as stated

nothing is yet known about the dynamics of flow intensity that occur during flow [19]

If we take a measure and zoom in, we may see non flow experiences within that period.

does that count as 1 flow experience or multiple flow experiences.

Do we measure for 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week.

We could categorize something as a flow experience, but within that measure, there maybe flow and non flow experiences.

This scale of measurement issue is often discussed through fractals.

A popular example used is a coastline [21]

There is no reliable fixed length for the coastline of Britain that is independent of the measuring device [20]

The smaller the ruler you use, the longer the coastline gets until you are at atoms.

Traditional linear interaction explanations seem to struggle to model this.

David uses a surfing example.

Surfing in a several hour period could be categorized as a flow experience.

But the time between waves, are non flow experiences.

Zooming in further, the interactions between the surfer and waves will also go between flow and non flow experiences.

But zooming out this flow experience might have taken place over a week of surfing.

These relationships between scales don't work with linear chains of cause and effect.

this is where cascade modelling may become an important part of causal explanations.

testing for flow - cascades

So when comparing the cognitive metatheory and ecological metatheory in explaining flow like experiences, I think the ecological approach may be more effective.

as David writes

The ecological metatheory developed by James Gibson (2014) and the tools provided by dynamical systems theory (Kelso, 1995) and multifractal geometry (Mandelbrot, 1999) may be particularly well-positioned to support novel explanations of flow. [3]

combined, this is often termed ecological dynamics, which is what I discuss a lot on this channel.

Getting into flow

But many of the popular science explanations and therefore advice point inwards rather than outwards towards contextual relations.

This is where the philosophy and approach to psychology changes the language we use.

memory language

and this also changes the practice design educators may suggest for learners.

I like what Healthy Gamer GG says here

flow state is impossible 0:45 - 1:16 [4]

Andrew Wilson, another ecological psychologist wrote a blog post a few years ago about verbing nouns.[22]

acting instead of action
perceiving instead of perceived
remembering instead of memory

So when I think about getting into flow, I look at my relationship to the environment and how effective my behaviours are at reaching my goal.

navigating a desirable difficulty adjusting my behaviours as I am acting.

getting into flow

as Seth Godin wrote about his writing process

There isn't a standard approach, there's only what works for you (and what doesn't). [8]

which when we consider non-linear, non-obvious multi-causality, the solution will always be different.

variability is inevitable.

Remembering this old tweet from a friend she wrote

This is what a hyper-focus creative binge looks like. It's when you can't possibly tear yourself away from what you're doing... peeing and eating are ANNOYING interruptions. You look up and 3 hrs have passed. [7]

Is hyper focus a flow state?

Are multiple moments of flow in a hyper focus session?

I don't think those questions are useful if we want to be more effective with behaviour.

Especially when we consider the goal.

focus with work

So when I think about effective behaviour

Effective behaviour towards what? The intended goal at the start, or something unrelated that emerged during practice.

Now we are talking about staying on track. Following instructions or achieving a desired goal.

How you adapt to the dynamic relationship between you and the environment are the skills we as learners look to develop, and educators encourage learners to explore.

this is where concepts like education of attention and education of intention from ecological psychology are useful for me to help explain my experiences

attention isn't entirely in my control, but not out of control either

attention is selective but also not

know David mentions assumptions at the end and most people will take assumptions from cognitive psychology unless challenged.

I was challenged almost 10 years ago now at university and this video I did is a good introduction to Ecological Psychology if your interested to explore further