Wilson: So today is Friday, September 27th, 2024. The time is 6:57 p.m. I'm Wilson McDade and today I'm joined by

Christis: Christis Shepard

Wilson: and we're conducting this interview with Paul Tracy. You want to say 

Paul: Hello, I'm Paul Tracy. 

Wilson: Yeah, so Paul Tracy, you were the, you were Ritchie for a few years, we'll get into that, and we're at the 

Christis: Max Lowenthal Hall at Saunders College of Business

Wilson: 3062 room, the best private study space on campus. We have a beautiful view of Gene Pelossi Center

Christis: and Kate Gleason Circle.

Wilson: Yep

Christis: can’t forget that

Wilson: And yeah, before we get started, Paul, can I ask your verbal consent to record the interview?

Paul: Yes, you have my verbal consent to record the interview.

Wilson: All right, incredible, my original. And yeah, I guess we can get started. I'm just going to be taking some notes, just like to keep things on track a little bit.

Paul: Sure.

Wilson: So, Paul, I guess, can we get started, like, what years were you at RIT and how'd you get affiliated with doing the Ritchie program?

Paul: Well, I came to RIT in September of 1985 to begin my first year. I was right out of Brighton High School, locally, and I spent a couple of years studying film and video, and then I heard of the fraternity Alpha Phi Omega on campus, and I stayed until 1989, just so we have that, you know, compartmentalized. And then I should say, I didn't quite finish my degree in 89, so I'd gone to Hollywood and worked for a while. So when I came back, I went into the workforce, worked at Channel 13 and did a couple of other jobs, and then finished my degree in the year 2000, almost 11 years later. So I came, and they let me transfer credits so I got my degree in 2000, even though I would have been the class of 1989. 11 years prior… But while I was here, and you want to know how I found out about the Tiger?

Wilson: Yeah, sure.

Paul: Okay, so when I was in Alpha Phi Omega, at the time, I was joining the fraternity because, well, many reasons. I didn't know that the Tiger was affiliated with them at the time, but then I found out through learning about the history of APO that they're the ones that brought the Spirit Tiger, or Spirit the Tiger, to the campus many years ago, and it was the old campus that they brought him to. And when they did that, they have an entire history. There's even a fellow who I got to meet at a later Alpha Phi Omega reunion who was the fellow who organized all that. I don't know if he's passed on, because this was 15 years ago that I met him, and he was older. But suffice to say, I learned that the history of Spirit the Tiger then became where Ritchie came out of, and what occurs is that because the Tiger suit and the mascot suit was part of Alpha Phi Omega's purview, and it was particularly my brotherhood line. If you know fraternities or sororities, you have a brotherhood line where you have a big brother that sponsors you into the group, and they have a big brother, so that's your great big, and you know, great great big are the people before you. Well, my great great big was Mike Frank, and he was the Tiger, and my big was John, was, yeah, John. Can't think of his last name right now. Sorry, John. And it'll come to me in a second. But he was also the Tiger that showed me the ropes on becoming the Tiger myself. So we'd go to the athletics department where the Tiger was stored in a locker, and we'd have to at least tell the athletics people that we were coming to get the Tiger out to do an event, because they had always hosted the events, right, and that we were part of. So we worked very closely with athletics, but it was definitely, the suit was part of APL. It wasn't part of athletics the way it is today. And there was only one Tiger at the time. Ritchie was just one. And I remember the brown sweater, because back then it was orange and brown for the colors of the school. It was orange and black now, right?

Christis: I think so

Paul: Yeah, or white. Is it white even?

Wilson: It's both.

Paul: Oh, okay.

Christis: The main color is orange, but black and white can be used interchangeably. 

Paul: Yeah, that's cool. So that was a long story to tell you how I got involved with the Tiger, but I had been a dancer for 16 years before that, both ballet, tap, jazz, and modern. Okay. So I kind of brought a character to the Tiger that everybody finds their own. And I was there, I was in the suit for almost two years. So those couple years, which were around 86, 87, 88, I don't know exactly how it spans those couple of years, but around that time frame, I was the Tiger along with my big brother. So, yeah.

Wilson: So there was one costume and your big brother being John?

Paul: Yeah, John Haddock.

Wilson: John Haddock…And y'all would, how was like the coordination there? Would you like go, you know, you're one for an event and then he's one for the next event?

Paul: Yeah, we kind of traded it off depending on whose schedule was available. We liked doing that. It was back and forth kind of thing.

Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 

Paul: And occasionally we would get people who, and this was only by special permission with Athletics and Art and this fraternity, they wanted to be in the suit. And they wanted to do it for like a, what do you call it, like a department meeting or something. So sometimes they would ask us to show up, but other times a member of the department would borrow the suit. It happened only, so we allowed that to happen. It was kind of fun for them because then they could be like in the suit and nobody else in their department would know it was them. Besides that, it was just John and I handing it off back and forth and doing the duties of it for a while. I eventually turned it over to Bob Oakley and he was still in the fraternity, but he didn't make it through the fraternity. So he did a couple of events and then I had left to go to California and I don't know what happened to who was the next one because Bob was my little brother in the downline. Yeah. I only had Bob here. I had someone else, but she didn't make it through because Alpha Phi Omega is a coed fraternity. And so we thought maybe that would be the end of it. It could have been at that time when the athletics decided to take it over. I don't actually know the history of that part, what happened in the transition. I know when I came back around 96 to finish my degree by the year 2000, it took me four years to finish that last year. Cause I was doing it part time. I know that that time that Ritchie had already become a new look to him. Yeah. So I think between 89 when I left and 1996, that's when they became a different way of doing Ritchie. I don't know that for sure though. Yeah.

Wilson: So I'm curious, you said when you had first become Ritchie, you got some tips from your big brother. I'm curious, can you share any of those tips? Is this the secret sauce?

Paul: Kind of. Yeah. I mean, some of the fun stuff about, you know, always playing around jovially with the cheerleaders was a thing just to always make sure, because we're on the same team, so to speak, that we're cheering on the Tigers and rally up the crowd. I remember one time when I was in the gym and they had a basketball game, one of the cheerleaders came over and started petting me and I was like, ooh, in my head, you know, it was kind of fun. And then I lost my shoe, not my actual shoe, but the covering of the shoe. So I made it appear like I lost my paw. So I had to go over to it and the cheerleader put it back on me. Yeah. I thought it was kind of wild. Yeah. But as far as other tips, just how to act in it, I was the worst on the ice. And I had taken ice skating lessons when I was a kid, so I could stand up on the ice, but I just was more like, I didn't want to go out and just skate slowly and terribly. So I mocked it out and I hung onto the wall. I couldn't stand the ice. So I pretended to be the scaredy cat on the ice. Yeah.

Wilson: So it's sort of like adopting a personality.

Paul: Right, right. Yeah, totally. You got to make it your own. That's what big brother said to me. John said to me about it, too. Yeah. He was a little different because he was kind of a bigger guy. I mean, I am now. Back then I was a skinny rail. And so we fit in that suit a little differently. It would hang off of me. But I was tight to him.

Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how do you think other Ritchies, I mean, you've probably seen them in hockey games these days. Yeah. How do you think they're handling it differently than you did?

Paul: I guess I haven't witnessed a hockey game yet with them. That's true. Yeah. But I have seen them on campus at different events. Yeah. I came back for a music event because I was part of the, it's called 8 Beat Measure now.

Wilson: Yeah, yeah. 

Paul: But it was called the Men's Octet when I started. I was one of the first of the eight men that were in the Men's Octet. So Ed Schell was the conductor, and he had us for an anniversary concert about nine years ago when he retired, something like that. And then I asked the Ritchie at that time who came to the event, I said to the person who was the handler, I said, hey, I used to be Ritchie. Can I get in the suit and have fun with Ed Schell, Ed? And so he says, sure, go, come back over here. And then we switched into the costume, and I got in the costume for about 20 minutes or so. And I was goofing around in the costume again. It was pretty, pretty fun. My wife was with me at the time, ex-wife now, but she was with me at the time. And we just had a blast. She didn't know it was me. I was fawning all over her. So yeah, those are some fun stories about the current Ritchie interacting with him. And I guess there's about four of them now, or two or three or four.

Christis: I think there's four to three Ritchies. Yeah, different costumes, but we don't know who's who.

Paul: Do they have any distinguishing marks so that you go, that's Ritchie one or two or three?

Wilson: That's a good point. I wonder if the stripes are different, like real tigers, you know, it's like a fingerprint.

Paul: Right. But I'm not really sure. That's a clever thought.

Wilson: You mentioned that there were two Ritchies at some point in your time.

Paul: Not when I was in, no, just the one. 

Wilson: Okay. Yep. I was curious if they had any distinguishing marks.

Paul: No, he was just that old smelly one.

Christis: The one with the eyelashes. 

Paul: The eyelashes. Yeah. Yeah. That was mine. That was me. And I have pictures to share with you about that. Yeah. Yeah. Happy season. Yeah. Funny. I don't know the origin of when it started though, because I know Mike Frank, as I say, my big, big brother, he was in it and I should ask him. He's in Florida. He was a clown for a while. He went to Disney. So he's kind of taken his art to that level of clown mask-hunting things. Yeah. And, and I should check in with him and give you some information, what he might know he might be before him.

Christis: Yeah. We do know that Ritchie was around when Spirit was first brought onto the old campus because there are images of the 60s Ritchie holding Spirit and the poor little cub looks so terrified.

Paul: Is he Ritchie though at that time? Was he called Ritchie?

Wilson: I'm not sure of the name exactly.

Christis: But we have, but he was in the costume. Yeah. Must've been a poor, like, uncanny valley kind of thing for the poor cub.

Paul: Cub's like, there's a bigger version of me, but I don't understand it. 

Wilson: Yeah. Exactly.

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, there's that. Okay. More questions.

Wilson: Yeah. Yeah.

Paul: Pretty cool. Still recording?

Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. We're good. All right. Yeah. So, I mean, what, uh, what kind of events would you be going to? Was it like primary, primarily like sports games or, or, uh,yeah, it was there any weird events that you would-

Paul: I'm thinking about that now, because even though I see the newer, the later Ritchie's at different events, I don't remember going to any kind of, you know, proclamation or something. It was always either hockey or, you know, outside on the field or in the gym. Oh no, we, I know we did go. It's even in the Tiger film that I'm going to share, send to you. Um, I don't know what the activities day was, but it was kind of like an activities day. So in the SAU or the CAU, they changed names a couple times. Um, Ritchie was in there goofing around just to play around with people. So kind of having a presence on campus was what they used them for, uh, once in a while. So I do remember that, but mostly sporting events.

Wilson: Okay. Yeah. And I guess, do you have any like, um, sort of switching gears a little bit, do you have any like philosophy about Ritchie that you'd, you'd like to share? You know, what, what do you, what do you think a future Ritchie, yeah, a future Ritchie should, should encompass?

Paul: Ritchie embodies the spirit of the students here at RIT. So anyone who's in the suit ought to keep that in mind when they are having the honor of being in the suit.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: And I don't want to be overly serious about it, but it is that, when you're a mascot for an organization or a school, your representation is of that. So I hope, uh, it doesn't go into any str... I mean, we could be a naughty Ritchie or a teasing Ritchie or something. We could be a good spirited Ritchie. Yeah. People would continue to do that.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: I don't think you should be loaned out for corporate events. 

Wilson: Oh yeah. Maybe fundraisers. 

Paul: Well, fundraisers, no, that's good. That's, that really is good. Yeah. Yeah. Because again, that shows the spirit of things. But if he's sitting there with a telephone,

Wilson: yeah, right.

Paul: I don't know if they still have the telephone room, but I’m sure we do

Wilson: it's somewhere. It's not in the basements anymore.

Paul: Yeah. Oh, yeah. The basements of the dorm room.

Wilson: Yeah. You're right. I mean, you got a spot. Yeah. Um, yeah. So y'all would, y'all would check out the costume. Um, was there, was there ever any like, like that? I mean, would they say like, what are you using this for?

Paul: You know what it was? Whenever we would go in there, it's, we didn't need two people to zipper you up, but it would help.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Because we're John. I'm gonna go with the method because it's just a zipper from down to up, you know, like a dress or something, or I'd be for a woman, and we would hook it on something and then just, and then it would zipper everywhere along. But most of the time we had a handler and we were each other's handlers. So Ritchie would have somebody, John would be there with me, I'd be there for John, and so we were both preoccupied unless we had a conflicting schedule, and then I think Mike would take over, I don't remember how that worked, but we might even have an athletics person help us out with that. But the idea was that you could get dressed up pretty quickly. But inside the suit you had to wear shorts and a t-shirt.

Wilson: It was so hot in there.

Paul: Oh my God, so sweaty in that suit. 

Christis: Even in the middle of winter?

Paul: In the middle of winter. Oh, so sweaty.

Wilson: You can't air out or anything? 

Paul: No, you can't ever take the head off. You’d scare everybody.

Wilson: Yeah, right.

Paul: Oh! I can hear it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember there was a, and probably still is now, there was a big amount of fabric for the head that goes all the way down to about here. So when you put the body part of the suit on, you're tucking that in and you're covering it seamless. I mean, it doesn't really look seamless. You can see there's a head seam. But that's the idea is that if you were to pull your head out or move like this, you'd still be able to see. Yeah, you're bringing back memories from that. It's pretty cool.

Wilson: You mentioned that your little sister, I guess, right?

Paul: Yeah, Donna Hatcher.

Wilson: She didn't make it through the fraternity intro process. Was it, that makes me feel like, or makes it sound like Ritchie was definitely, or intended to be like first years, like pledges, that kind of thing. Was that how it went?

Paul: What did he mean? Pledges?

Wilson: Yeah, does he have four pledges?

Paul: Is that what you mean?

Wilson: Like, uh. To be in the suit? //S02: Yeah.// Was it that kind of thing?

Paul: No. No, you'd have to be in the fraternity to be in it. I was mentioning Bob Oakley because he made it in and then he was going to take over. But then he stopped. I don't remember what happened. I really don't know why he, he might have left the school. Something happened. But I was already gone to LA at the time and he took over. But then, that's a missing part of my own history because I don't even know where Bob is. I came back to Rochester and didn't reconnect with him. I didn't know where he was. So I just didn't, I was really focused on work. I worked at Channel 13 from 1990 to 1995. So I didn't pay attention to what happened back here to that level.

Wilson: Yeah. 

Paul: But, yeah, Donna, I don't want to say anything. She just had something going on with her family or something like that. So she didn't stay. So I don't have any downline history. 

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: So I still think it might have been that's why Ritchie stopped being part of APO. Yeah. Yeah. 

Wilson: What was your experience with APO? Were you all in the dorms? 

Paul: No, we weren't allowed to because we're co-ed.

Wilson: Oh, interesting.

Paul: So because we're co-ed, we had an unofficial house at 216 John Street. Okay. That's now been, the house itself has been torn down and is part of the apartments that are there now. Yeah. They expanded this direction. 

Wilson: Oh, apartment?

Paul: I don't know the name, but it's something like that. Yeah, one of the, there's an apartment. Yeah, if you go down, was it Kimball Road?

Wilson: Kimball sounds right. There's Wiltsy as well. Kimball would be by Perkins.

Paul: Yes. So Kimball, it used to go straight into the house on the other side of the street. Okay. So there's John Street and then there's Kimball. Yeah. And then you go down there and then, like I said, there's some other place there now.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: So that's where, and there used to be an apartment there, but they seemed to expand it this way, I guess at that point.

Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, there's like three complexes.

Christis: Yeah, there's Apex, then there's Providence next to Apex, and then Park Point is like this area. And then Perkins is like right across from Dormside.

Wilson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul: That makes sense. But 216 John Street was rented by Michael Kim and another brother, I can't think of who that person was, but the two of them always had parties for us over there.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: So we constantly had fun, and I have videos of that, but they're not related to the Tigers, so I won't share them.

Wilson: Yeah, no worries. Yeah

Paul: But, so, you know, that was the socialization aspect. But Alpha Phi Omega is based on the Boy Scouts of America, so what we are is a service fraternity. We're not a social fraternity.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: So we help with service projects, and part of your credits that you get within the fraternity is doing service projects. I was actually the vice president of service and membership different years. So, you know, you track that and you send that to nationals and you show this is what the brothers, even the females, we call their communities or, oh, I forget the four, it's something like service elders community. 

Wilson: Is it what? The Pillars?

Paul: Yeah. Like the, yeah Yeah, it's the same as the Boy Scouts. Okay. (..) But that experience was a great experience for me because I needed, I was always a social kid when I was in high school, but it was nice to blend in with a group that was very accepting and party crazy too, because I didn't like that. There were other fraternities that were more throw beer kegs off the roof or something.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Yeah. So, yeah, so I'm glad Ritchie was, you know, part of that family. Yeah.

Wilson: Yeah. How do you think that came about? Like you said, you mentioned the spirit. Yeah. I mean, why do you think Alpha Phi Omega was such a proponent of that like tiger spirit? 

Paul: If you look at the archives that you know very well, you'll see the story of the Alpha Phi Omega two guys, and I don't remember their names, but there's a whole story that's written about that, and it talks about how they wanted to bring the real tiger spirit to the campus, and that piece, I can't elaborate on too well. At some point I knew it a little bit better, especially when pledging, and we had to kind of learn that story. 

Wilson: Yeah, learn the history, yeah.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. So I'm sorry I can't expound on that, but it is there, and that's why, you know, that's how that started. Now it's funny you say that you saw, did you see pictures of it already, where they're holding the tiger in the suit?

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: So I don't know how that means, if that was a transition of types, or if the mascot existed, but it wasn't called Ritchie yet.

Wilson: I don't quite remember that. It is sort of like piecing together a history in my head, because I think I could see there being sort of this mascot era of Ritchie, and then we've seen kind of weird photos where it's like just a costume with some guys in it, and he might have the head on.

Paul: Oh, no.

Christis: Oh, yeah. And he doesn't have hands. Yeah, the old 60s mascot is very much that you can just easily remove the head, there are no paws, so it's all just, you can see the person's hands in it.

Paul: Okay.

Christis: And you can see their shoes.

Paul: Maybe it was just a hairy guy.

Christis: Weirdly, the 60s Ritchie seems to like Adidas shoes. Yeah, because you can see his Adidas, where he's just like posing with pictures. So, yeah, and there are multiple instances where he's holding Spirit and his head is just not there, so he's just in the body suit.

Paul: I wonder if that's the guy Dave. I'll have to look that up for you. I have that article that I know is also here at some point, preserved somewhere. But as you may know, what we talked about, maybe three semesters, has not been around campus too much. They were downstairs with an office in the campus center there that used to be the pool.

Wilson: Yeah. 

Paul: And they renovated it to be like a small area. I was connecting with somebody about a year and a half ago to see if I could reconnect with the group. And they said, well, we're not much of a group. I hope they come back, and I'm hoping I can help them if they reach out to me again, because I don't know who that person was at that point.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Good thing to keep up on. 

Wilson: Yeah. It sounds like it was impactful in your time here.

Paul: Well, I was walking around there when I was thinking of doing a documentary about Ritchie. So by talking to the Alpha Phi Omega office, I wanted to get some background as to who were the people in the suit for many years after and before.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Because I wanted to interview those people today and not show, and I'm giving it away here, but not show what their connection is. And be like, who are these people we're getting interviewed that seem to have no connection to each other?

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: And then not too long into it, you would learn the connection, and then I would continue. That's the direction I want to take that image, the way I want to. I'd still like to do that still. 

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: I think would be kind of fun. 

Wilson: I think it's really interesting how it's like one lineage in the fraternity. 

Paul: What connects us. Yeah.

Wilson: Yeah. Do you think, you said Mike Frank is your great-great-brother? Great-great-big.

Paul: Great-great-big. Yeah

Wilson: Do you think that he was the first, or do you think there was even more?

Paul: Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at his name. I think he's still in Florida. Orlando, Florida is where he's been for a long time now. (..) I'm calling him anyway. (..)

Christis: Oh, no.

Wilson: Put him on speaker.

Paul: Yeah, that would be funny.

Christis: But he hasn't signed anything, so you know, we'd have to cut a huge chunk of the interview. 

Wilson: I'm going to send him a pdf.

Paul: I'm going to tell him something, though. Hey, guess what? I'm interviewing at RIT about being the RIT Tiger. In 2021, actually. So, okay. Any more questions? I hope.

Wilson: Yeah. Let's see. So.

Christis: I think a lot of the questions I might have asked have already been answered so, unless I think of something. Okay.

Paul: We keep talking to make sure we don't forget anything. What was your interest in doing this? I should ask you that, even though you don't care to have my answer. But it might generate something for me.

Wilson: Yeah.I mean, the most immediate thing is we're in this class and we're tasked with making this exhibit.

Paul: But who picked the task? Who picked that task?

Wilson: Our professor.

Paul: Oh, they did? Yeah. They said, talk about to the RIT Tiger people?

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Wow.

Wilson: And Liz reached out. But, you know, it's still interesting. And, you know, we have these artifacts, but don't actually have much of like a story or backing to it. So it's cool to connect with that.

Paul: I wonder if it's because I did talk with that person.

Wilson: Maybe. Yeah, I mean, if you connected. A few months ago.

Christis: Maybe. I know Samaya has been in contact with Landyn probably even before the semester started to get this up and running since, you know, Landon was taking off Golisano for this.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Oh. Who do you do? I don't know his name, but okay.

Christis: Okay. So Landyn is the current RIT archivist. Golisano… Like the guy who's got his name stamp on the GDD building and the Sustainability building over on the other side of campus.

Paul: It's most of Rochester and Florida.

Christis: Yeah. So they had an exhibition for Golisano.

Paul: Oh, he came? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Christis: So they had an exhibition on him in the area where we're going to be having this exhibition. So the RIT Archives took down this Golisano exhibition for our exhibition. And so they're probably, our professor and the RIT Archivist have probably been in constant contact with each other before the semester even started to plan this.

Paul: Yeah. Wow.

Christis: And to determine, like, what was going to be used to decide on what was going to be used for the students.

Paul: Okay. Should get Mr. Golisano in the tiger suit.

Christis: Oh imagine.

Paul: He lives in Florida most of the time now, but his house, he's got in Fishers, New York, I think is where it is.

Wilson: I heard he has to plan his time very, very well, so he's still a resident up here. That's exactly right. 51%. Yeah, that's it.

Paul: But Paychex is a strong company. Yeah. Cool. 

Wilson: Yeah. I'm curious, you said that Mike is, he kind of spent time with Disney and stuff. And I'm curious if he, or I'm sorry, if you ever thought of kind of going down, like, the more mascot-y route.

Paul: Well, all right.

Wilson: If you liked it.

Paul: To that end, when I had taken dancing for 16 years, I thought I was going to be in performing arts for a while. And when I was in between high school at Brighton and college at RIT, there was a group that came to town. It's still around, but not too many people know about it. It's called Up With People. And Up With People has been around for decades and decades, and they have a catch song and everything. But they have touring companies that are dancers and singers around the country. I think they have three or four groups that tour. And they came to town, I auditioned, and I got in. So I was like, oh, now I have to choose between college and going on tour for at least a year with this group. And I actually chose RIT, as you know, because I was here. And I kind of, I don't say I want to, I don't regret it, but I stayed involved with things like that here at RIT because I was in the RIT Dance Company. I should tell you this. So I was in the RIT Dance Company for four years. Back then it was Steffa Zerucha, and now it's done by Warfield. Michael Warfield. 

Wilson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul: So Mike Warfield is doing it now. He's the head of dance.

Wilson: Yep, yeah.

Paul: His father, actually, short side story, is Bill Warfield, William Warfield. His brother was Tom Warfield. He's Tom, right? Tom.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Okay, so Tom is Bill, and then his brother. His brother was a famous singer in Hollywood and on movies. But yeah, Tom Warfield, I didn't dance with him, but it was his predecessor, Steffa Zerucha, who was head of dance. And I was in the RIT Singers, so I did a lot of performing arts. So as much as this was, back then, more of a tech school than it is now, I mean, it's still a tech school, but there's a lot of blending together of many different artistic things, too, especially with the arts and crafts departments and things like that. But I liked being, I liked the right brain and left brain balance that I had when I came here. That was cool. And as a filmmaker and as a student of RIT Film, or sorry, of SOFA, School of Film and Animation, that, to me, was what sold me on coming here versus just going on the road up with people. So, yeah, a long answer to say it's a good, balanced education here.

Wilson: And then when you went to Hollywood, it's not like you were going to be a mascot up there.

Paul: No, I went to Hollywood to do animation, but I did talk about my days in the suit, which was only months before at the  time. And they were like, oh, that's a interesting and that wasn’t impressive to them.

Wilson: Did you ever find, I know there's some animators, especially, you know, hand-drawn stuff, they'll study film and that kind of thing. Did you find that you as the tiger were a subject?

Paul: I liked that idea, that crossover thought there. And a lady named Mary Kane, who was the head animator at Playhouse Pictures where I worked, or where I interned, she used to work for Disney prior, so she was older in her years. And she was in retirement for Playhouse Pictures, and she would talk about, you know, she had the onion skin and the cells that you would paint on, and then you'd turn over and you'd paint them. And she'd show me the process. I learned it over here from Eric Timmerman, a teacher who was the animation instructor back then. And I was thrilled to see that, and she would talk about that. She'd talk about reference material, where they'd bring in animals, and they'd have to draw, you know, the motion of the animals, and how movements go to get a smooth feel for the various movies that were being drawn back then by Disney. So, yeah, it kind of all comes together, doesn't it?

Wilson: Yeah, right. Did you ever study film as Ritchie? 

Paul: No.

Wilson: Did you like look at yourself and say, oh, I could have been more expressive here?

Paul: Well, in the one film that I'm going to send you, that's actually me and Mike Frank, the guy I mentioned who rented out the 216 John Street, because sometimes I'm behind the camera filming him, and vice versa. So I don't even know anymore which shots are me and which shots are him.

Wilson: Interesting. Yeah, that's good.

Paul: But I think the ones where he's just standing there doing this, and they slap with his hand, I think that's him, and I think I'm the one who's strutting. 

Wilson: Yeah, I mean, the clip you showed me, I was like, wow, this is like, I could see where the dance was coming out, you know? You don't have a face to show emotions, so you show it elsewhere. Right.

Paul: Yeah. And even though we're not, you know, we're doing audio only, I'm going to show you a very quick, I know I can get at this in about 10 seconds, a picture of when I used to dance. There's me with my sister.

Wilson: Oh, wow.

Paul: So again, I was a skinny guy who used to be in the suit. I wasn't, like I am today. But yeah, that's cool. And I'll send you a bunch of pictures of Ritchie, like I said, I would. 

Wilson: Yeah.  So you mentioned that, you know, you and I think John, would sort of swap sometimes. One would be the handler, one wouldn't. As the handler, was there anything that you'd like watch for?  You don't want people to go up and see you drink on Ritchie 

Paul: Exactly, that kind of thing, and make sure that Ritchie doesn't trip on his own feet. Because you couldn't see too well out there. You could see enough, and you'd have to turn your whole head to see out of like maybe this much.

Christis: Oh, goodness.

Paul: So a little oval cupping your hand together, and doing that, so the audio goes. So yeah, and that's each eye. I'm blind in my left eye. I always have been since birth. It's not a defect, it's just that, well it is, but it's not, something didn't happen to me. It's just in development. So I don't have an optic nerve on the back of my eyeball. So it's a real eyeball, and it moves, so people don't notice it, right? But because of that, when I'm in the suit, I'm only looking out of one eye. So I see a lot less than someone who has binocular vision. So handler came in handy to make sure you don't trip on something. You have a clear path to go somewhere, or stairs.

Wilson: Yeah, I can see that thing hard. In-depth perception.

Paul: Yeah, that's why I see like a camera. That's why I got interested in filmmaking.

Wilson: Yeah, right. Yeah.

Christis: I apologize if this has already been answered, but is there a particular memorable moment when you were in the suit?

Paul: Yes, and I can't share it.

Christis: Oh!

Wilson: Could you share that?

Paul: I could share a generic version of it, I suppose. Um, yeah, a lot of the cheerleaders used to like Ritchie very much.

Christis: Oh! Oh!

Paul: They'd fawn all over him and they'd hug him and everything, yeah. I could just say that, that they liked him a lot. Yeah, sometimes. Yes. I don't know if they could tell who's in there at the time, whether it's John or me or somebody else, whoever was doing it, but it was pretty cool. So it had its benefits.

Wilson: Yeah, I bet.

Paul: It's funny, though, to think about the costume and the shoes, because they were just felt things that would just go over your sneakers. Yeah. So you could wear your sneakers, you'd have good traction on the court and everything. So, you know, that reminds me of how, I mean, I said the paw story earlier, but it reminds me how when you get dressed, you'd have to put stuff on in the right order.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: And the shoes, if you put the suit on first, you obviously don't put the head on yet, but you'd have to put your shoes on, you couldn't even bunch over to get them on. So you'd almost have to put the shoes on first, the coverings, and then slide your feet through the legs. I have no idea what the current people do for the costume, but if there's even a boot or if there's a shoe. 

Wilson: Yeah, I wonder, like a covering like that.

Paul: Yeah.

Christis: Did anyone other than your fraternity actually know who was ever in that suit? Did you ever tell anyone?

Paul: No, that was, you're right, that was a good point. That was a secret. So you couldn't tell, you didn't even know it was Paul or John or Mike. And it was our line, so even another brother was not allowed to do it in the fraternity, whether female or male. It might have been some sliding exception for that for some event or something like that. None of us could do it, they needed to have somebody. That's why it was an honor to do it, because it was totally tied to Alpha Phi Omega and our specific line. I didn't even know until John Paddock told me as part of the pledging that that was part of our heritage. And he's like, if you're ever in this suit, you can't tell somebody you're in the suit.

Christis: So it was just on a need-to-know basis then, basically.

Wilson: I'm imagining it's a little like, you know, you never see Bruce Wayne in Batman or whatever, in the same room. So it's like, you know, Paul isn't at this basketball game, I wonder where he is. 

Paul: I was there, wait, what? it's funny, interestingly enough, in Disney scope, I worked with a gentleman who was goofy. And this was a long time ago for him, and I just happened to work for him, so we connected. And he said that at Disney you have to say, I'm very familiar with Goofy. You can't ever say that you were in the suit, even after leaving the program or something. So I haven't adopted that, I'm always very familiar with Ritchie, but I get that. I see why they would say that, because you want to keep the mascot real.

Wilson: Maybe that's an idea for your movie. At least for that first half, everyone here is very familiar with Ritchie, but you don't know why.

Paul: That's really good, actually, thank you. But of course, now you said it, my son has the idea. I wanted an executive producer idea.

Christis: Now you've got to credit him.

Wilson: No, it's all good, I'm kidding.

Paul: Okay, what else? I mean, this is cool.

Wilson: Yeah, now we're really off the cuff.

Paul: Yeah, it's a good place to be.

Christis: That's the way the best interviews go. They start off with a few questions, and then you kind of just branch out from there.

Paul: I have a story about him. I have a story about Ritchie I kind of want to share, because it's kind of fun. And I don't mind saying this part at the beginning, and then you tell me whether you think I should share it or not.

Wilson: And if I can throw something in, I mean, I'm not sure that we'd be publishing the entire mp3 or something.

Paul: Yeah, we'd be using this for notes sake. Here's why I'm not sure if I could share it, but I think enough time has gone by, but I don't know. It wasn't illegal or anything like that, so that's okay. But it wasn't the best thinking, because it was Halloween of a certain year. And I was like, oh, Ritchie's a costume, isn't he? Maybe I could be Ritchie for Halloween. So I took him out and was Ritchie for Halloween. And I don't think anybody knew, but I think until I'm telling this story, but Bob Oakley, the man I mentioned, he gave me a phone call. And he says, oh, Paul, this was like November 1st, November 2nd. He's like, Ritchie's missing. What happened? Do you know? And I had to say, well, I'm bringing him back. He said, well, why did you have him? He didn't need to know, and I didn't need to tell him. And now everybody knows. And again, I hope it's long enough that it's not like that. And nobody seemed to mind, but it was not smart. Because it was for personal gain in the sense of here I am inside of the suit.

Wilson: Yeah. Was that a case where you'd tell people, like, hey, it's actually Paul?

Paul: No. No, Ritchie was on the prowl. He was out.

Wilson: Sounds like a fun night, though.

Paul: It was fun. I got lots of candy.

Christis: I'm sure.

Paul: I don't think there's any pictures of it, though, back then. No digital pictures. 

Wilson: I mean, I'm curious, then, you know, you got a lot of candy. How do you eat in the suit? Are, let's just say, daily functions, are those difficult?

Paul: Yes, they are. You have to make sure you take care of business before you get in there for an hour. Because you're going to sweat like crazy and feel like you've got to go right away to the bathroom when you get out of the suit. So, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting you bring that up. It's so true. You've got to plan that out.

Wilson: How do you stay hydrated? Are you able to, like, pop the head off real quick?

Paul: Occasionally the handler would do that with a bottle. But, yes, we would pop the head off, go private, and drink some water. And I'm never, I remember not being there for an entire game. I remember being there for the beginning and for the end. And maybe the same game. Could be wrong, but I think that's how it was, where, you know, I'd be there for a good 20 minutes, and then take a long break while the game was still happening, and then come back in to cheer things on you at the end of the game. Because the scores were getting closer or further apart, whatever. So I don't remember, like, half-time Ritchie or anything like that. Could have been true, though, but I don't remember.

Wilson: So you said you were Ritchie for, like, two years. How many games do you think, like, events that you went to?

Paul: Dozens. I mean, not hundreds by any means at all, but a few dozen. Maybe 30 or something total in the course of a couple years, something like that.

Wilson: Only home games?

Paul: Yeah, no, I never got on the road. That's a good point. I don't know why they never asked Ritchie to go on the road, but we never did.

Christis: I don't think they do that even now. I don't remember Ritchie ever leaving RIT being said to be off in somewhere else with the hockey team.

Wilson: It'd be weird to see Ritchie at Wegmans or something.

Christis: Imagine! It'd just be like one of those, like, the advertisements that happen at the train stations across the country. It'd be, like, that weird.

Wilson: Yeah, the subways.

Paul: Well, the closest he'd gotten to being off campus wasn't really off campus. It was when I took him for the Halloween thing, because he went to the apartments and stuff like that. So that was kind of fun. It was still the spirit of Ritchie on Halloween. It was just, told anyone I was going to do that.

Wilson: And you didn't have a handler for that?

Paul: No, no.

Wilson: That sounds really difficult.

Christis: Oh, what was that like?

Paul: And to do the zipper thing, you know, on the truck. Yeah, so, yeah, that was difficult. I remember being frustrated about that, to be honest. I was like, why did I do this?

Christis: Wait, what was that like when you were just walking around on the dark…

Paul: Driving was ridiculous.

Wilson: You drove it?

Paul: I had to drive! I had to take the head off. That's good. Head was on the seat, so I drove with the paws.

Christis: Did anyone see you?

Paul: Maybe. I don't know. That would be hilarious. I once saw a mascot costume person in a car without their head on driving, too, so I kind of remember that. But these people must have seen me. You've got to get to where you're going.

Wilson: Yeah, right.

Paul: Yeah, because I didn't walk to Perkins. Back then there was Riverton Knolls and River Knolls. Yeah, Riverton. They were different names, right? They were two different places, right? So I think I went to all of them. I had a girlfriend at one of them. I visited her and goofed around for a while. It was probably only an hour and a half or so. But I didn't bring him back that night. That was because I wanted to get him washed. Because I was in him and it was kind of a mess. That's when Bob was telling me the next day or the day after, he was like, oh, he's really late.

Wilson: So who can, at the time, who could just check out Ritchie? You had a key?

Paul: We did have a key to the locker. I don't remember if it was a combination or if it was a lock. I don't remember that. I remember the locker he was in. I mean, even the locker room. I think it's a woman's locker room now. You know how there's two aisles that go up from the skating rink to the boat? You go up the left one as you go from the skating rink, almost to the end on the left side. So whatever that is now, it was a coach's locker room. But I think it's a female coach's locker room right now.

Wilson: Interesting. Did anyone ever, just imagining them being really interested in wanting to see who's under the mask, did anyone ever?

Paul: Oh yeah, once in a while. But little kids usually. Yeah, if families were at a game, the kids would look. If I got too close, you know, they'd look.

Wilson: Oh yeah, they'd see you.

Paul: Yeah, or they'd see me through the eyes or the mouth. I don't remember. You'd have to look at the actual costume. I might be remembering it wrong. If you see the costume in real life.

Wilson: Yeah, well, because you were not in the chipmunk one.

Christis: Yeah you were the one with the eyelashes.

Paul: Yeah, so I don't know now, but that's interesting. You can check that easily.

Wilson: Pierce, do you know if that specific costume that the Archives has was yours? Or do you know if there was maybe a duplicate?

Paul: I'm pretty sure it was. The lady I talked to a few months ago, I closed those pictures, she brought it close to me to a further inspection. Except for the eyelashes that I had forgotten about, I'm pretty sure that's the one. Do you think they had a duplicate or a similar one before they moved to the chipmunk looking one?

Wilson: I can see that. It's like if something happens, they want to make a new one, they use the same design.

Paul: Yeah, so I don't want to answer that for sure. I hope the one that you have is the one I was in. That would be cool.

Wilson: Did your brotherhood line, did y'all sign any ephemera? I'm just imagining you sign the inside of the mask.

Paul: We should have done that. That would have been so cool. I have to tell John when I see him again, which I haven't seen him in like ten years, which is a short time after you graduate to not see somebody when you’re 57. Ten years ago, it was like, oh, I just saw you. 

Wilson: I'm surprised y'all didn't have a plaque or anything.

Christis: Nothing?

Paul: No, that's kind of part of my documentary is to find out what happened to Ritchie. Yeah, that would be really interesting. I don't want to elevate him to some stardom, but I think students like him, right, when he comes around?

Christis: Oh, absolutely.

Paul: Do the cheerleaders like him just as much?

Christis: I don't go to the games, so I wouldn't know, but Ritchie's regularly out whenever we've got incoming freshmen, so he's always there at convocations.

Paul: Yeah, cool.

Christis: And the freshmen love him.

Paul: Good. That's cool. That's a good welcoming spirit. I mean, that's the whole idea of spirit. That's cool.

Wilson: What does spirit mean to you?

Paul: School spirit?

Wilson: Well, RIT spirit. Yeah, because you know, the spirit, the tiger, it's student pride in RIT.

Paul: I don't know if they named him spirit because they wanted him to be school spirit. Could have been, but it all sort of ties back into itself again, doesn't it? Just being proud of the school that you're in, being humble about knowing who you are as a person and disciplined in your studies, but having a good time, too, making sure you set aside time for friends, family, and studies, good balance. That kind of thing is what I did, and I know people who do that seem to survive it better, right?

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Always have good balance between friends and family and your schoolwork.

Wilson: I have one more.

Paul: Oh, okay.

Wilson: So, I mean, nowadays there's a few different mascots. There's Ritchie, I think they call him Rory as well.

Paul: Really?

Wilson: Yeah, there's a polar bear, basically. He's a white tiger.

Christis: I actually heard from a friend that apparently the white tiger that comes in FreezeFest is apparently Ritchie's wife.

Paul: Oh, interesting.

Wilson: Interesting

Christis: I just heard that just recently, like an hour or so ago from a friend who also is good friends with the person who was Ritchie for that one event. So apparently Ritchie canonically has a wife.

Paul: That's interesting.

Wilson: Yeah, I'm curious, is there any more?

Paul: I know that he was even interested in women, or female tigers. Is that not in the Archives?

Wilson: Yeah, I'm just looking him up right now.

Christis: RIT tiger. Look up FreezeFest, maybe.

Paul: Is it possible because a lady was in the suit at the time?

Christis: I don't know, all I know is that my friend told me that apparently the white tiger is a girl, and she's canonically Ritchie's wife.

Paul: That would be great if Ritchie had a wife.

Christis: For some reason.

Paul: Cool.

Christis: Maybe look up the FreezeFest tiger. Oh, there.

Paul: Oh, is that Rory? Yeah. So Ritchie... That's Rory?

Wilson: Yeah, Rory, born from snowflakes. It's a white tiger with a sparkling fur coat and blue stripes. Interesting.

Paul: Well, I can see how Ritchie would be attracted to her.

Wilson: Well, yeah, I guess I'm curious. Were there any other mascots at the time when you were around?

Paul: No, just Ritchie. Just the one, Ritchie.

Wilson: Yeah, okay.

Christis: We don't see that tiger. That tiger is just pure FreezeFrest.

Wilson: Yeah, FreezeFest. And then there's also Bricky. I like Bricky. It's just a big rectangle.

Christis: Or Balloonie.

Paul: Oh, that's funny. Oh, you have multiple mascots is what you're saying.

Wilson: Oh, yeah. And they come out at different times.

Christis: Don't forget Balloonie.

Paul: There's a Balloonie?

Wilson: Well, there's Balloon Ritchie.

Paul: Balloon Ritchie? Okay.

Christis: It's the amount of big balloons that are kind of tied together and then given stripes and a face.

Wilson: Oh, yeah. Made by a local company apparently. They have it patented. I think that's really cool. And actually, yeah, probably. And I can’t find any photos? Yeah, it's like Awesome Balloons or something like that.

Paul: Yeah. This guy's downtown. I can't think of his name. Yeah, part of a group called the Push Physical Theater. It's a local dance group. It's in Rochester, but they travel all over the place and they come to school there because of the interest in dance, right? So, I mean, my point of saying that is that they work with this other balloon guy. I don't remember his name now, but he's not the fellow who did this, I'm sure.vYeah. But the company.

Wilson: Yeah. Balloonie.

Christis: Also, I'm going to be right back.

Wilson and Paul: Okay.

Christis: I'll knock on the door.

Paul: I don't think we can technically talk unless she's here, too. We have to do paperwork. Individually signed papers.

Wilson: I can always pause the recording.

Paul: No it’s okay

Wilson: And now it’s slow

Paul: Are you on the wifi.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: You know what I want to do? If you don't mind, I want to take a picture of the paper I signed with her.

Wilson: Oh, yeah, sure.

Paul: Because it's just because I keep documents. Good to keep documentation.

Wilson: Right.

Wilson: You know, it's the recorder and sometimes it can be a little slow. Yeah, let's see.

Paul: Is it still recording?

Wilson: Celebration Unlimited.

Paul: Ooh, are you sure it's the right one?

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Okay, hello.

Wilson: We're at 52 minutes now.

Paul: You've got a lot to go through to transcribe. Or do you have a transcription service?

Wilson: We’ll have AI.

Paul: Okay, perfect.

Wilson: Yeah, Celebration Unlimited. Okay. I don't know if you're familiar with that. I think it's an alumni. Okay. Bob the balloon guy. Yeah.

Paul: This other guy is Jeff or something. Oh, okay. Jeff Cohen or something.

Wilson: Was there any interesting press on Ritchie when you were around?

Paul: Well, nothing salacious.

Wilson: Nothing salacious? There was no drama?

Paul: Except for the cheerleader thing.

Wilson: No press. What do you call it? Paparazzi.

Paul: Paparazzi. That would have been funny. Oh, we should have done that too. See, all these good ideas, right? Yeah. If we would have the ladies in the fraternity all gather around them and take pictures or something, that would have been funny. It would have been coming out on the town. Ritchie in a top hat or something. But we didn't do those things. Those are just fun things we're thinking of now. 

Wilson: Yeah, typically. Yeah. Right. 

Paul: Yeah. Right.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: No, it was a fun time. I mean, I totally enjoyed it. In some ways, by me reliving some of that, it's kind of exciting that you're helping me kind of reconnect with my own past. Yeah. I like that. I appreciate that. Yeah.

Wilson: And, you know, I hope this helps for the documentary too. Yeah. Getting old names and stuff. Yeah. 

Paul: Yeah. No, because that idea you had is really good. I would like to use that for that with a part of this in being familiar with Ritchie and everyone’s like: oh?  I just feel like I don't have time.  I have so many projects going on.  That’s why it took a year to come to my brain again.  A year ago, I talked to Athletics. I can't even think of the guy's name, but I have an email to him at some point. Yeah. I'm working on a film right now called A Date for Anya.

Wilson: Okay.

Paul: And it's a narrative film, and we're about a year and a half into it. We've got to finish it hopefully by the end of the year or the beginning of next year. A full hour and 35 minutes approximately, narrative film drama. I did a documentary recently that’s on Plex right now,  It's called Digitizing Divinity. It was about my church when we went through during COVID. Yeah. And what we did is we documented the processes we had to go through because we didn't have an online presence. We were a small church called Moziac, and we ended up documenting it. And then I said, you know what? This will make kind of a cool story. Oh, she's here.

Wilson: Yeah, I got her.

Paul: Okay.

Wilson: Oh, welcome back.

Christis: Thanks! Sorry about that

Paul: So I was going to say about that. You don't need that for this, of course, that we interviewed a couple people in the church, and it became the base of the story. So I said I'm going to make a documentary. So that’s Digital Divinity.  So that's what I did. Yeah. So free if you're a member of Plex. I think Plex is a free service.

Wilson: Yeah, I remember actually.

Paul: Oh, do you?

Wilson: For piracy, but not for piracy according to the recording.

Paul: Right, right, right.

Christis: For legal reasons. That's a joke.

Paul: That's a joke. Ha, Ha, Ha. Oh, Mike Frank wrote back. Let's see what he said. Mike Frank.

Wilson: He says, hell no.

Paul: He says, of course, I said, hey, guess what? I'm interviewing at RIT about being the RIT Tiger. Should I have him contact you sometime? He says, only for a reference, LOL.

Wilson: Oh, OK.

Paul: You're hilarious. I hope to catch up with you soon, period. It's pretty cool they're doing a neat historical perspective.

Wilson: Yeah, he can confirm that you were Ritchie.

Paul: Not only that, but I should ask him if he doesn't mind. We'll see.

Wilson: Since it's a secret society.

Paul: What's the question about who was before him? Is that what you want to know?

Wilson: Yeah, that was actually a big thing, yeah. Hey. How'd it get started?

Paul: If you happen to know, and it's not too much trouble, do you remember who Ritchie was before you were? Question mark. They're trying to get a lineage going as well. And they know it was all through APO at the time. Let’s see if he answers that. I'm surprised the answer, because it's been, like I said, about three years since I've checked in with him.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: So any other questions?

Wilson: I think we're about done. We're coming up on an hour or two, so we don't want to take too much of your time.

Paul: OK, but he's writing, so maybe we should record him running until the answer comes in.

Wilson: Of course, he hasn't signed anything.

Paul: Oh, that's true.

Christis: Oh, no.

Paul: You're saying. I'm saying. I happen to know that. Yeah. Yes. So let's see if he says, because those dots keep on dotting.

Christis: So you were just basically chosen because you happened to be a little of the person who was currently doing it?

Paul: Wait, say it again.

Christis: I'm sorry, I can't seem to speak properly. No, I didn't understand.

Paul: So basically, the reason why you were chosen to be Ritchie is because you just happened to be the little of the person currently doing it.

Paul: Oh, yes, because John Haddock did not have any other little brother. Sometimes in the fraternities you can have a little brother who's pledging the next wave of people you would have another little brother or little sister. I was his and he didn't have anybody else prior to me, so that's why I was chosen to take it on from him. His big had a couple of different littles that he could have passed it on to. I believe that's true. I can ask Mike that too, I suppose, but we'll burden him with that later. So at some point it was chosen who would be Ritchie in line.

Christis: Did that happen in your freshman or your sophomore year?

Paul: Oh, yeah.

Christis: Because you said that you did it for two years, but you don't know when it started.

Paul: Well, I pledged in 1986, so that was definitely my sophomore year. But I wasn't Ritchie until I got into the fraternity. So I would have been in the fraternity in 1987, so it would have been 1987-88. So it would have been the end of my sophomore year, beginning of my junior year.

Christis: Okay.

Wilson: Okay.

Paul: All right, he gave me a couple, I'll say it this way. I think Bill Buczko and likely Greg Bernarski and maybe Steve and Portree were also in the line.

Wilson: Okay. Wow, generations here. I didn't expect it to be six people. If it were one or two years each in that tenure, that's a lot of stuff.

Paul: Well, I think we overlapped because I think when I say I was in there two years, it was probably realistically a year and a half because we were in a quarter system back then.

Christis: Oh, right, that was before the semester started.

Paul: Yeah, so when we did the quarter system, sometimes if you were two quarters in, you'd almost say it was over a year. Cause it’s 2 out of 3 quarters.  So Fall, Winter, Spring. It's possible, I don't know exactly, 1987 that I became a brother, did a little bit of Ritchie then, then the next year I was in there and y’know, the next fall cause that was 89.  Because I did do him in 89 briefly as well. Yeah. It's weird I can't pin it down too easily, but I was around that time.

Wilson: And I know you had mentioned that John was doing it at the same time as you.

Paul: Right, but he graduated before I did, so he was older. Yeah. Thanks, catch up with you later sometime. My sister's at Disney now again.

Wilson: Okay, I think we basically covered all of it.

Paul: Cool, okay. Yeah. So anything else, ask me on email and I'll be happy to answer more.

Wilson: Yeah, and you'll share those videos.

Paul: Yep.

Wilson: If you have any photos, I'd love to see them as well. I'll dig through some more photos and I'll ask Mike for photos and I'll ask for me from him, if he has to sign it, unless they come through me, whatever, because it'll be scandalous.

Paul: We'll figure it out.

Wilson: We'll figure it out. And yeah, definitely come out for Homecoming weekend.

Paul: When is it?

Wilson: I believe October 19th is our exhibition.

Paul: I better put it in there.

Wilson: Yeah, and then it'll be up for I think five months or something until March next year.

Paul: What do they do with older exhibits once they have their time frame in the sun?

Wilson: Oh, they cycle them out. I mean, everything goes back into the collections.

Paul: Oh, and they will cycle it back again.

Wilson: Oh, I'm sorry. What I mean is it's not like it's on rotation. I think there's going to be a museum class next semester that will have something that gets put out for Imagine RIT, that kind of thing. So it's like big events, they'll put new things out.

Paul: Well, I hope I find a nice photo of me in the suit. I mean, you wouldn't know.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: But if I could find that, as I have old pictures, and Mike might have some too, and John, to kind of help with the display of it all.

Wilson: That'd be really cool.

Paul: What's the display supposed to look like? What do they call it? You know this, I don't. What do they call the display of work in the library?

Christis: A display case or just an exhibition basically.

Paul: Yeah, okay.

Christis: So that'll be on the third floor of Wallace Library right off of the SHED basically.

Paul: Okay, yeah, cool.

Christis: So, yeah.

Paul: Cool. Where are those, where are the printing press things are now? Are they printing press?

Wilson: The floor above that.

Christis: The floor above that.

Paul: Right above that, yeah. Cool.

Wilson: And it's, they call it the RIT Museum, the third floor of Wallace. They have a pretty big exhibition right now of student artwork. And we're just putting stuff in, in this like series of display cases. We have a lot of photos about the spirit. Our team has photos of spirit. And, you know, plaque and some stock shares that people had from APO I believe.

Paul: Yeah, that's exactly what we sold. Yeah. Stock shares. Do you have that story somewhere? Does someone have that PDF of the story of how?

Wilson: I'm not sure. I've seen that myself.

Paul: You have seen it?

Wilson: I'm not sure that I have, no. No

Paul: Do you happen to know the storyline that is a PDF file that keeps floating around the Brotherhood about the original spirit, the tiger, because they would love to have that information.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Period. If not, I'll dig through something.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: Sorry to bother you with all this immediately, but I'm being interviewed now. We'll see if we can get that to you.

Wilson: Yeah. So, yeah, spirit will be like one case of ours. And then another case is going to be a bigger one. And it will have the two mascot heads that they have at the archives. Okay. And then some yearbooks with old photos of Ritchie.

Paul: Cool.

Wilson: And I actually have a piece in there as well of something that's been passed down generations of my clubs. And it's this wooden tiger that someone carved in like 2006.

Paul: I would love to know if the tiger area, you know how on the building for the shed there's a lot of naming rights that have been going on? You can buy the rights to name a room, $100,000 for the dance studio, $10,000 for the-

Wilson: I think I've seen that. Yeah, the Sklarsky is the one.

Paul: Yes, the different names that you see. Well, long story short, I work for a video for a company once in a while that has built the website that allows you to pick your naming rights. And, you know, usually they send it to high rollers and stuff, right? But the tiger area is still an area that is allowed to be named.

Wilson: Interesting.

Paul: I would love to have the tiger. I mean, I can't come up with whatever it is, $10,000 to $15,000 I think it is.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: I forget the amount for that area. So that's smaller than a classroom or a building space. But I would love to see if maybe some of the past tigers want to dip into their retirement funds and say, let's call it the whatever Ritchie area and then have the five names or something of the people of us who donated to that.

Wilson: That'd be cool. Get a plaque in there.

Paul: Yeah.

Wilson: Like, oh, Alpha Phi Omega Ritchie.

Paul: Right. Spirit even, Spirit slash Ritchie thing.

Wilson: Yeah. That'd be cool. I mean, right now, I don't know the name, but most of these meeting rooms are named as well. Yeah. My finance professor has the Gary Schwingle Room downstairs.

Paul: He's not Gary Schwingle?

Wilson: No, he is Gary Schwingle. That’d be funny if he named it after his friend

Paul: Oh, okay.

Wilson: I mean, I know they talk about how Golisano paid for a lot of the Polisseni Center, but they named it after his friend Gene Polisseni.

Paul: Oh, that's how it became the Polisseni Center.

Christis: Apparently his friend really liked hockey and so he paid for it.

Wilson: I think he had some cancer or something, so it's sort of a memorial. Yeah. That's cool.

Paul: Back in the day, it was just the buildings that we knew, you know, Ellingson, Colby and all the others. And I was like, I wonder how they got the names, but I knew Mark Ellingson was a name that was famous for RIT. President, yeah.

Wilson: I always wondered about Grace Watson.

Paul: Yeah.

Wilson: It turns out that she actually gave $2 million out of her estate when she passed and RIT bought the land for the Henrietta campus.

Paul: Was she a student back in the... She had been a student. No, she was all in the Men's Mechanics Institute.

Wilson: No, she had been a student in like domestic science or something.

Paul: All right, cool.

Wilson: Back in like 1907 or something.

Paul: At the downtown campus?

Wilson: Downtown, yeah.

Paul: He's saying something I'm just saying. Yeah, no worries. Hey, good idea. Thanks so much. I don't want to body about it anymore, but that's really cool. He says a couple of names which I'll email you that have to do with the people who were the original keepers of spirit, the Tiger when he would be taken. Because he came from Seneca Park Zoo.

Wilson: Yeah.

Paul: But we kept him at Seneca Park Zoo because it was a fraternity. And only brought him on the campus, not here, but downtown. Yeah. Until he got cancer. I guess you'd know the whole story. Spirit II.

Wilson: Yeah, I'm a little unfamiliar with it. I know that there's at some point one had like a hip deformity or leg deformity or something like that.

Christis: That’s why he got put down and his skin is currently taxidermied in the RIT Archives.

Paul: Yeah. 

Wilson: Weird.

Paul: Is it a weird skin?

Wilson: I'd say weird. It's, um… the fur is weird to me.  I grew up... Okay. Especially like alligators.

Christis: Alligators?

Wilson: Yes, I'm from New Orleans.

Paul: Oh!

Christis: Oh, that explains a lot. That's why you're saying y'all.

Paul: Y'all.

Wilson: Yeah, y'all.

Christis: Oh, you're a southerner.

Wilson: At least I'm real southern, not... I didn't pick it up. Yeah, so it's an odd piece, I guess.

Paul: No, it's cool. It really is neat. And everybody's got cool backgrounds, right? I'll find out. I was just doing a quick search. I can't find it right now.

Wilson: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll be in touch. Yeah.

Paul: Cool.

Wilson: I think I'm going to stop the interview.

Paul: Sure.

Wilson: And, uh... Yeah, I think that's your statement. I'm going to listen to it just for a sec.