Notes on Dating Bars

I am fairly confident at this point that I have compiled substantially more data and research on the existence of bars in Seattle and Washington state than anyone else -- surely anyone else who is publishing online or by any other means. Online and print articles I have seen on this topic have, without exception, included a large number of errors and omissions, demonstrable with data from primary sources that I have collected.

That said, attempting to rank the age of bars not only presents problems with limited data and sorting through urban myths passed down through generations of owners and staff (and subsequently printed by the press), it also requires one to make some fairly arbitrary definitions as to what constitutes a single bar.

Does it count as the same bar if preceding bars had different names? What if it was out of business for ten years? What if it moved? What if is in the same building moved to a different location, or the same location in a different building?

For example, many bars will date their age back to the first bar that occupied the current space, regardless of what the previous names were. But using this approach would imply, for example, that the the techno dance club Stage is one of the two "oldest bars in Seattle." I think most of us would balk at this characterization.

I have tried to include information that may help others who choose to use different dating criteria. But for this list I have chosen the following:

  • The first year that a bar was operating in the existing building with the same basic name.

  • The bar must have retained it's basic name for the majority of its history, going back to at least 1950. (Variations on "Saloon," "Cafe," "Tavern," "Bar," "Grill" and etc. are ignored for this point.)

  • Bars must have operated relatively continuously in the space, i.e. with only interruptions of a few years with the exception of prohibition (which was Jan 1916 through Dec 1933 in Washington state)

For example, I count the founding date of Jules Maes to be 1937, as that was the year that Maes first started to operate a bar in the current building. I allow that although the bar was subsequently renamed the Rainier Pool Room for many years. I also note that bars of different names and owners appear to have existed in the building since 1907, should people prefer that criterion. (The much repeated origin date of 1888 appears entirely unsustainable, as the building wasn't even constructed until 10 years later, I've found no evidence of any bar at the location at the time, and Maes himself was not in America at the time.)

In another example, I date the start of the Queen City Grill as 1911, as that was the year that current brick structure opened. But given that the Queen City Saloon existed in a different (wooden) building in the exact same location at least as early as 1891, others may reasonably conclude that the current bar dates back to this time.

On the other hand, since the current owners purchased the former home of the divey "Queen City Tavern" and revamped it in 1987 to the upscale "Queen City Grill" restaurant (which retains a bar), you could just as easily choose to define it as relatively new. As I said, one must make some fairly arbitrary definitions.

Notes on Sources

Of course along with the problem of defining a start date, getting accurate historical data is problematic as well. I have relied primarily upon contemporary newspaper articles, Polk Seattle City Guides, and telephone directories. I have also used hearsay from bartenders and owners, dates on old photos in the bars themselves, blogs, and online sources such as historylink.org.

All of the preceding have their imperfections and do not uncommonly conflict, but I continue to assess what appears to be the most reliable information from the various sources and update this page as I learn. See the Jules Maes page for an example of how I attempt to resolve these.

The vast majority of my data is stored in a massive spreadsheet that I have not yet made public, but am happy to answer questions and delighted to receive any new data.