A conversation (between me and a friend) about having a career as a mathematician (June 2024).
D: What do you say when you meet women who say "I don't think I'm good enough/the right person to do math?" It's happened several times, and I kind of need a good way to say it's not true...
3: “If I can do it so can you”? “No such thing as a right person since talent isn’t what matters”?
D: 1. Haha maybe sounds like a weird thing to say
2. Ok, what matters then? Interest?
3: Hard work?
D: Haha idk maybe
D: Yeah actually "hard work" is something most people can do
3: Re first point: I mean, I don’t think I have much of a talent in maths, so I do believe that’s true
D: Only problem it doesn't sound very fun
3: Ok yeah. It’s impossible to get good at something you don’t like
D: Yeah I mean I don't have any exceptional talent but just a general big appreciation for my field and the math community...
3: Yeah, and that’s really important. A big problem with (name of math course) this year for me was I found it hard to maintain interest for some reason
D: Why do you think this was the case? Workload?
D: Ok, what do you say to someone who does not think the math environment is for them because they don't see themselves?
(Maybe like well go in there yourself and be the first of your kind and a role model for others...)
3: “How would you know it’s not right for you until you’ve tried it” maybe?
D: Amazing
3: Not sure, a big part is probably not seeing much point of it, can’t see a future in it?
I have never had people ask me these questions actually
D: Ok, why don't you see your future in it?
D: It's happened so many times! Or rather "I chose this rather than that cause that seemed too hard for me"
3: It’s hard to find a job as a mathematician; even if I can, I don’t think I make a good mathematician; I don’t really think I like maths enough ensure insecurity and low pay for that many years; so much bad stuff is happening in the world and doing pure maths won’t help with any of that
D: I mean what future I see is: a lot of experiences in different places and institutions, a lot of fun conferences, collaborations, and you get to see how maths evolve, and you get to think about interesting problems and you're quite free in your job, and it doesn't get repetitive
3: Yeah that are all very good perks! Unfortunately for me, I’ve been going to (topic omitted) conferences regularly this year, and honestly I didn’t find it very fun. It was online though, maybe that didn’t help
D: I think you'd make a perfect mathematician, and we really need role models like you in the field, you are such a smart and warmhearted person
D: Umm I think you still have free time to think about charities etc? Like now that we have fixed work hours
Yeah no online things are useless
completely useless
D: Well I think sometimes that if the environment isn't good I'd rather stay and see how to make it better? I mean not myself but by talking to people
3: You’re very kind 🙂 I think you would make a perfect mathematician, there’s something in your character which is extremely valuable and rare: you have a lot of optimism, and the ability to stay organised without much external structure. Both are things that are essential for an academic career, which I think I’m not that good at
3: Also a lot of resilience against rejection
3: It will be difficult for me to not take work beyond that hour, probably. You don’t have that problem though
D: Oh yeah what do you respond when someone says "you need to have exceptional personal qualities" to persist in a field
D: I mean I definitely thinks everyone else fits in and could do well; it's just again a matter of the fact that there is a minority and hence not many people daring to get in there cause they think you need exceptional qualities which you really don't. Really just go there and be a role model for everyone else who think they can't…
D: Of course you'd do that but I'm sure you'd find other interests besides, just like with any other job
3: I guess some qualities can be fostered? Also different personalities makes different mathematicians? (E.g. (name omitted) vs (name omitted) maybe? 😂)
D: hhahahahhaahahahahahah
D: agreed
D: I was just gonna copy it over into google docs to save some useful thoughts hahahah
3: Oh really? I’m flattered. Is it a Google doc for conversation highlights? Maybe I should make one
D: No just got the idea to do it now hahah
3: Also people asking that probably haven’t had proper maths education yet, one really need to deep into it then decide whether your personality fits with the career of a mathematician
3: Yes, certain personality traits might help, but probably not “exceptional” amounts of that? A lot of these traits are what’s necessary to succeed anywhere
D: Yeah I guess loads of people also have these insecurities about not feeling good enough so they overwork and try to boast about results and prizes etc which doesn't make it easier for everyone else…
D: Gotta go to the train station now
3: Have not thought of this, I’m not sure how big the effects of this though, imposter syndrome is always present
3: Nice, this was delightful!