We watched this so you don’t have to. Tai the elephant gives a stellar performance in Operation Dumbo Drop (1995), a movie that took a fascinating real life story about airlifting an elephant and made it boring.

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Episode intro (00:00) 

Audio: Paul: Okay, so if you watched this movie for the podcast, I'm sorry. Or if you saw it when you were younger… I'm also sorry. I'm talking about the 1995 film "Operation Dumbo Drop" starring Tai the elephant and it was… we'll get to it. But, did you know that this film was actually based on a true story and it involved two elephants? Or that Tai the elephant was in a photo shoot for Vanity Fair in 2013? Learn about all this and more as we're Hoofin’ it in Hollywood.

[Theme song plays]

Audrey: [Imitating elephant]. That's the elephant version of the song. 

Melissa: Insert witty song, here. 

Paul: How's everyone doing today? 

Audrey: Hey.

Jordan: Hi Paul. 

Melissa: Hey hey hey.

Welcome to Hoofin’ it in Hollywood, I'm your host Paul and today I have with me my co-host Audrey 

Audrey: Hi, ugh hmm— 

Paul: Melissa 

Melissa: What's up. 

Audrey: No, wait let me do it again.

And Jordan. 

Jordan: [elephant sound?] That was so horse. Now that's wow, yeah I'll do mine again, too. Hi Paul. I was supposed to be doing an elephant but it came out like a horse. Hi Paul. 

Audrey: [elephant sound?] Oh my God, Hello Paul. Hi Paul. No. Hi Paul. 

All right, Jordan take it away 

Film facts: About the movie (01:49) 

Hosted by Jordan

[Punky rock music segment intro]: 1, 2, 3, 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. Film facts, film facts, film facts!

Audio: Okay. "Operation Dumbo Drop", 1995. If this movie came out it was… I don't know what you want to call it. Family action adventure comedy drama?

Paul: Family Vietnam movie?

Melissa: Yeah, that's one way of describing it. 

Jordan: Released by Disney, it's got everything you could think of. This was directed by Simon Wincer written by James Morris and Gene Quintano and Jim Kouf. The human stars in this movie: Danny Glover played Captain Sam Cahill. Ray Liotta, Captain T.C. Doyle. Denis Leary played Chief Warrant Officer 3 David Poole. And Dinh Thien Le played the character Linh. 

It was filmed for $24 million and brought back 24.6 million in the box office so I guess you could say modest success. The reception was okay it seems like everybody kind of agrees that it was very sentimental, maybe overly done, but not much in the way of story. Roger Ebert said as a family comedy it works, but as history goes it's shameful. 

1995 big year for movies: Golden Eye, Die Hard 3, and Toy Story were all there, so this movie came in 67th in box office returns for the year. So not great.

What I started last week, “animal rules,” there are no rules. This animal is a wild animal, people look at it like a wild animal, treat it like a wild animal, it's an elephant, no special rules. It doesn't talk it doesn't have any kind of inner monologue.

Okay "Operation Dumbo Drop". The 1968 Green Beret are working with a Montagnard village to keep them as allies, and the village sacred elephant is killed in retribution for the villagers helping the US and South Vietnam. T.C. Doyle, Ray Liotta, has been sent to replace Sam Cahill, Danny Glover. But Cahill wants the army to help replace the elephant because he feels like a sense of duty and responsibility to the people, because he's been living with them for a while. They fight about who's right and it turns out that they're going to go with Danny Glover's idea. So Ray Liotta kind of has to grudgingly go along with this idea of getting elephants to this remote village. 

So, it’s the typical team in a movie. It's like a team of misfits. Dougie Doug wants to just go home, he doesn't even want to be there. And then Denis Leery character is just, kind of like, he doesn't want to be there either. He's supposed to be on vacation. So it's kind of just like this group of people that don't belong. They're all together and Cahill's like one with the village. They play a joke on Ray Liotta when he first gets to the village, just to kind of show that, like, he's cool and down with the villagers. And Liotta is this outsider. 

They buy Bo Tat the elephant from another village, but they have to... as part of the deal, they have to also transport this boy named Linh who has been orphaned. And they don't really say, they don't know how he was orphaned: It was either the Viet Kong Army or maybe the U.S. and so the U.S. soldiers were like “well we hope it wasn't us, he's not going to like us.” And especially Ray Liotta, he doesn't trust him. Mean Ray Liotta. But good Danny Glover loves him.

They have to transport him. They try to transport him in all sorts of different ways. The elephant does get seasick and there's a really funny scene of it puking on on the boat 

[SOUND CLIP FROM THE MOVIE]

Yeah and they try to take it on a plane. They have to stick some suppositories up its butt [SOUND CLIP FROM THE MOVIE] to try to tranquilize it which is really funny.

Audrey: Is it?

Paul: Yeah, I was about to say, I don't know it was very funny. 

Paul: Then it wakes up and then it, like, stomps and almost crashes and kills them all, which is also really funny. And then they have to land. And then they take it by truck and the truck breaks down. And then finally the Army calls off the mission because they don't need the village anymore because the front line has shifted. And so it doesn't even matter – the village. 

And so they're like “What do you mean it doesn't matter? We've been doing all this for all this time.” And so they decide to steal an airplane and continued their mission with the elephant. 

Paul: The entire time building an entire rig for him to be, like, transported. 

Jordan: Oh there's, yeah, there's the montage. 

Paul: Hours to build that. 

Melissa: Yeah it would take forever to build that. 

Jordan: And it was really weird. When they stole it and he's like “Well they stole it,” and he's like, well, he wasn't mad that they stole it because they're stealing Army property. He was mad because there's a bunch of … They’re like “Well it's gotten really hairy up there and they're going to get shot down, so we need to get them back.” So. 

Paul: Assets dude, they didn't want to lose assets.

Jordan: Right. So they build this big rig and they parachute the elephant in and it drops and they have a big celebration, but that's pretty much the end of the movie. That's the gist of it. 

Jordan: So now that you've heard about the movie, let's talk about the actual true story that the movie was based upon.

[CHIMES UP AND DOWN SCALE].

Jordan: Okay. Up and down sounds of chimes usually indicate a dream sequence or remembering, which is going to introduce my history section for this part of the movie. 

A little bit of history about what this movie is about, because if you look at the very end, they don't say anything at the very beginning, but at the very end of the movie it says “inspired by a true story.” So you're just like— [Right] an elephant being dropped? 

So "Operation Dumbo Drop" is a true story, so I had to look it up. And there is a lot of info out there about it, and it's honestly not too different from the movie. Obviously embellished something things and took some liberties with things, but uh… back in the' 60s when the Vietnam War was going on, there were people that were referred to as Montagnard which is French for ‘the mountain people.’ So the Montagnard villagers were sought after by the North Vietnamese and the US, with the South Vietnamese Army, because of, you know, their location, and how much that they would help. You know, they're on trade routes, they know the area, so of course they would be valuable to both sides. 

The U.S. Army special forces were working with Montagnards to fight against the Viet Kong influence. So in 1966 the U.S. forces realized that operating all these bases and housing all these people and starting these developments in these Mountain areas was very expensive. And the cost of lumber was very, very high at the time, and they knew that it was not sustainable to keep building these big villages, and they had to figure something out. 

So Captain John Gant saw the potential of using all the wood that was already there — they had mahogany forests in the area — but how to do it and how to make the logistics happen was the issue. 

And so in '67 he acquired a sawmill from some Australian company and he trained the people in the area to operate this sawmill, and they cut down some trees for them to get them started, but they had a problem. The problem was their heavy machinery, like their trucks, would just get torn apart by the rough terrain. It was just too hilly, too bumpy, all their cars were just getting pretty much demolished. 

The Montagnard elders actually suggested using elephants, but unfortunately they didn't have any elephants. So, in 1967, the US forces actually talked with villagers in Ban Don, a region known for elephant training and they procured two elephants. 

But now they didn't know how they were going to get these elephants there. It was about 300 miles and they couldn't just walk them the entire way. So they decided they were going to use air to do it. The elephants would actually get seasick, which was one reason they had canned the idea of using like a barge or some kind of boat to get them there, because elephants actually get seasick. So that was not possible. 

And they found some drugs in London, I think is what I read, that would be good enough to kind of tranquilize these elephants. But then one of the biggest offensives in the Vietnam war happened: The Tet Offensive, and all of the airplanes were unavailable now to do this airlift. So the whole thing kind of got put on pause until April 4th, 1968. 

The two elephants were sedated and they were flown via a C-130 cargo plane from Ban Don to Dha Nang and from there they were transported by Marine helicopters to Tra Bong. And worst part about this is you would think everybody would want to hear about it, and it'd be a sweet story, but Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated the same day that it happened. [Ah! Ah!] So nobody even really heard about it. It was of course the news talking about Martin Luther King Jr., so nobody knew about it until a movie called "Operation Dumbo Drop" was made.

Audrey: So are the differences between the real story and the movie — basically like they stuck a kid in there and it was much less complicated to get Bo Tat to the village. Those are like the big differences?

Jordan: Yeah and there wasn't an altruistic need to help an elder, it was sort of like a “Well, we need to build this village up so that we can crush the opposition.” 

Audrey: Yeah, I just don't know, I don't know. I guess what I don't understand is how you take a movie about parachuting an elephant and make it boring. 

Paul: Agreed. 

Melissa: Right, because like that's a big feat. 

Jordan: We could have focused a little more on the parachuting. 

Paul: It could have been like the Star Wars of, you know, fun family films. And like it just it wasn't. 

Audrey: I don't think that, I don't think a movie about the Vietnam war is gonna be the Star Wars of family fun films.

Paul: I think it could have been. I mean I think they could have had something unique, ‘cause I've never f***ing seen an elephant parachute. 

Melissa: Well now you have.

Paul: I just think what confused me the most was that it was like a kids movie, but none of the jokes were for the kids.

Audrey: It definitely, I don't — Was it a kids movie? Like who's the target audience?

Melissa: Actually that's a good question. I don't feel like it is.

Jordan: It had to be kids. There's… it had to be kids and their parents that are watching the movie with them, but like weird kids. Or just like really little kids.

Audrey: I saw it as a kid. I didn't remember how excruciatingly boring it was. 

Jordan: Pretty sure I did not watch this one. 

Paul:I only remember the very end with it going out of a parachute, so…

Audrey: Well probably because you fell asleep. Yeah until that point of the movie. 

Melissa: You're not wrong, I almost fell asleep last night.

Audrey: I think I watched it when I was younger because it was while we were watching it memories would kind of like come back. 

Melissa: I'm like, oh yeah, but I don't remember it as a whole, so it might be one of those, I saw it one time and don't remember it. Or I just saw clips or bits and pieces of it. I don't know. But, yeah I don't think we were really missing much. 

Audrey: I do remember it being marketed to me when I was a kid. Like I remember being aware it was coming out and wanting to see it. So maybe it was targeted at kids, but I don't know…

Jordan: The inclusion of the word Dumbo in it made me think definitely kids, but I forgot to say the name of the operation. It wasn't "Operation Dumbo Drop", but it was called “Baroom.” What? What it was called operation Baroom because of the, you know, the trumpeting sound that a elephant makes.

Audrey: Oh my God. That's kind of cool. 

Audrey: I just, I was not prepared for how boring it was going to be. [No]. I was like, “man I should have gotten out the laundry so I could fold laundry while watching this movie.” 

Jordan: I think after like at some point while they're at that village and things were happening I'm just like “this is going to get funny sometime, right?” Like things are going to start? They're going to start doing Disney jokes or making funny kid jokes. But it didn't even do that. It was just…

Jordan: Why was Ray Liotta wearing so much eyeliner? And —

Audrey: That's just how he looks. 

Paul: He has like b**chy eyes and like yeah [b**chy eyes?!, get out of here.] You don't want to look at him after a while. You're just like get out of here.

Paul: Alright, Jordan you got anything else? 

Jordan: That's all I got. Alright, I'll take it over to talk about some Creature Chronicles.

Creature chronicles: About the animal actors (14:02) 

Hosted by Paul

[Piano music segment introduction: Hm? What's that? It's Creature Chronicles.]

Audio: Paul: Before we start, I kept forgetting why we held off on doing this movie and it came back to me reading about the history of Tai: It's because there's a huge amount of abuse towards these intelligent creatures in entertainment fields. And so we'll talk about that a little bit later, but just get ready, because it gets a little rough towards the end of this talking about everything. 

And if we do make any jokes, you know it's in no way making light of the situation. What happened to Tai is completely inexcusable and joking is just merely a way for us to communicate the story and the frustration that surrounds it.

Audrey: I'm glad you're bringing this up. Much like when we did Dunston Checks In, I was wondering about sort of like the ethics around using elephants in a movie in general. 

Paul: Yeah, yeah. So we'll jump to that in a little bit starting with the actor Tai. She is an Asian elephant and she is a female. 

So let's talk a a little bit about Asian elephants. They're known to live for about 60 years. They're found in South and Southeast Asia. Their physical features: They have smaller ears than African elephants with a trunk that has a single finger like projection. Males often have tusks, too. They are the second largest elephant species, with males weighing over 4 tons and females weighing around 2.7 tons. So when you think about her running through that movie and all those people diving out of the way, that seemed like, 

Jordan: yeah, like a car coming at you. 

Melissa: I get the hell out of the way. 

Paul: Crazy danger, dude. Crazy. 

Their intelligence: They are known for having very high cognitive abilities and complex behaviors like mourning and problem solving and, you know, you'll see videos online of elephants painting and like sweeping a broom to clean up their areas. So, I mean, it's just, they're incredibly rad creatures. And what makes the entertainment business kind of suck for them —

Audrey: Did you… what did you just say? They're incredibly rat creatures? 

Paul: No, they're rad incredibly rad creatures. Rad. Rad. 

Audrey: Rad makes a lot more sense. I was like… you mean like what? They're both smart? I feel like elephants are smarter than rats. 

Paul: No dude, they're the same. 

Audrey: [singing] Rat creatures they're rat creatures.

Paul: Rat creatures we'll have to put a sting through the episode. 

So, Tai was born November 4th 1968 and she was captured in the wild and placed into captivity. She was then sold to Carrie and Gary Johnson of Have Trunk Will Travel. And so Have Trunk Will Travel was a company based in Paris, California, founded by the two in 1980. And that company specialized in training and providing elephants for film, television commercials, and live events. And so, just a quick note about her name: She was named Tai supposedly because she was born in Thailand, so they thought that would be cute. It is, it is kind of cute. 

So she ends up staying with Carrie and Gary her entire life and she started her acting career when she was about 13. And so they had to move her to many different places, ‘cause they weren't always filming movies in the same location. 

And so Tai was actually moved in a trailer that was specially built for her with safety and comfort in mind. It had a ventilation system that kept her cool and hot when she needed it. There were sliding screen doors for privacy and separate compartments for her food and tanks that were built in to bring in fresh water. So basically whenever she was going to different film shoots, she was living the life of luxury. 

And so just a little bit about like when she was going between sets and just being taken care of: She had pedicures once a month and she also had an exercise program she had to go through. 

So, her first film was in 1981 it was called “Quest for Fire” where she played a willy mammoth.

Jordan: Wait. He — did you say “willy mammoth?” 

Paul: Woolly mammoth. It isn't a willy mammoth. I called it a willy mammoth my entire life.

Melissa: It's woolly. 

Paul: You know I'm looking that it's written woolly and I just said “willy.” A sweet “willy mammoth.” 

Melissa: Sweet willy mammoth. 

Paul: Uh, she was in Big Top PeeWee in 1988. So, like, she had like a few films before she got to "Operation Dumbo Drop". 

She was about 26 years old at the time when she was in this film and she did play Bo Tai. There was apparently 12 additional elephants that were extras throughout the film, but she was the principal elephant in basically all the shots. 

And she was chosen because of her calm demeanor and her friendly disposition. This allowed her to be placid and relaxed during scenes where there were simulated gunfire. So under just incredible stimulation, she kept her cool. 

And she was awesome. Her intelligence was also commented on and her ability to perform as an actor. Like in basically all the articles I read people just kept saying she was awesome, she was awesome. Even Danny Glover was like: thumbs up, elephant. 

And then according to the book by Jim Morris “The Making of ‘Operation Dumbo Drop,’” we learned that the kid Linh in the film actually had a very real relationship with her outside of the film. He would talk to her a bunch, he would pet her all the time, and apparently he would even like lounge on her head. So imagine sunbathing on an elephant's head. So that's — 

Jordan: Wait, Danny Glover did?

Paul: No, no, no, no, Linh, but hopefully Danny Glover did.

And you know we've been alluding to violence in the entertainment. This film was apparently on the up and up with the handling of her, so it doesn't sound like there's any kind of negative interactions on the film. 

And to ensure the health of her, in fact, on this film set, her food and water, including her bathing water, was shipped in from the U.S. to Thailand throughout the production. So she was bathed in purified water every day and there were even young men hired to hold umbrellas over her when the cameras were not shooting. 

Melissa: She was bougie. Yeah she deserves it, though. 

Audrey: Okay, I was just thinking about her captors. So basically it sounds like — ‘cause everything was on the up and up during the movie — so, her captors basically abused her at home so that she would perform at the movie. So they were even more — I mean not even more heinous, anybody who abuses is heinous — but they were, they did what people who abuse their children or or spouses do: They do it in a way to try and hide it. 

Paul: Yes, yes, that's the assumption. 

Audrey: MMkay. Okay, well it's not the assumption, though. Isn't there a video showing it? And didn't they get kicked out of California for abusing their elephants? 

Paul: Well let's jump into that right now. They actually left California because a law was passed to prevent the use of bull hooks. They, it's preventing injury of elephants in entertainment in California and bull hooks were like a big instrument that they use. 

So they ended up moving to Texas to skirt the law. So. it wasn't that they were kicked out, they just left because it sounds like they couldn't abuse the animals like they wanted to.

Audrey: Okay. [Yep] That's [yes] well f*** these people.

Paul: 100% agree and there is a video filmed in 2005, released in 2011, when the film Water for Elephants was coming out, that was released by the Animal Defenders International showing her being shocked with handheld stun guns and beaten around the body and legs with bull hooks.

Yeah, so let's swing back to our history really quick. So after the film "Operation Dumbo Drop," she did have a couple other films that she was in. “Larger than Life” with Bill Murray in 1996. She was in “Water for Elephants” in 2011. She was in an episode of “Westworld” in 2018 and her final film was “Saving Flora” in 2018. And it looks like she has appeared in 24 films, 38 TV shows, 51 advertisements, and a handful of music videos. So like they worked her, they worked her a lot.

During her career. There was a big controversy surrounding her treatment with her owners and that's where we get into the abuse of elephants. And so the claim started coming out in 2008 with Tai's appearance in the Britney Spears music video “Circus,” the 2009 film “Exit through the Gift Shop,” Tai was covered in paint in that film and then 2011 “Water for Elephants,” that was the big call out where they released this footage of her being mistreated. And then in 2018 with “Westworld,” there was also some controversy because they were using CGI animals, yet they opted for a real elephant in that shoot. 

So there were, you know, multiple groups trying to help with the abuse of elephants and so these groups started becoming very active. And so in 2018 when “Westworld” did this or the people who produced “Westworld,” it seemed like we were reverting a little bit because we were already starting to make progress and then they opted to bring animals back, especially animals from this company, especially the one that was being beaten in the video. 

Audrey: Well and on top of that, like earlier in general using elephants in film, like they're very social creatures. And earlier, I can't remember if it was you or Jordan, but you talked about how they mourn the loss of their loved ones. Like can you imagine the herd of elephants that Bo Tat was part of just like mourning her disappearance? 

Paul: To kind of swing back to them leaving in 2018 because of that law… in 2020, they ended up rebranding their company called The Preserve. And apparently there's kind of like a tactic for groups like this where they'll use titles like “The Preserve” or “Sanctuary” to give a perception that it's like a safe space. To make it sound that it's good, but don't worry, it still wasn't a safe spot. 

But, yeah, so for decades elephants have been used in films, circuses, tourist attractions, often trained by painful methods. Many undergo a process called “the crush,” which involves physical restraint, beatings, isolation to force them into submission.  

As public awareness grows, the use of elephants in entertainment has declined, which is a good thing. With many productions opting for CGI or other humane alternatives. However, the impact of this industry on captive elephants is long lasting and it's crucial to recognize their suffering when discussing their roles in media. 

If you guys are interested, or if any of our listeners are interested in learning more about what they can do, or help donate, or just help gain awareness, you could visit the websites for “The Elephant Sanctuary” in Tennessee, “The Elephant Nature Park” in Thailand or the “Sheldrick Wildlife Trust.” between the three of them they cover sanctuary, care, rehabilitation, and conservation, respectively. 

But, there are many other organizations out there doing good work so we'll link you to that in the show notes in case you want to do any research on your own. 

Audrey: And we suggest before making any donations, you know making sure that ,that the organization aligns with your values. 

Melissa: Yes, do your research.

Audrey: Well, well, well, Paul, that was depressing. 

Paul: Yeah, got a little bit more. May 7th 2021, Tai did die due to kidney failure at “The Preserve” in Fredericksburg, Texas. 

So let's talk a little bit about her quirks. She traveled in reflective trailers and she loved to look at herself in the mirror. She would get really close, put her eye next it. 

Audrey: Good for her. She gets pedicures, she bathes in purified water on the daily. She deserves to look at herself in the mirror. 

Paul: And like you, Audrey, she's down to clown with popcorn. She loved popcorn.

Audrey: Oh, I love popcorn! 

Paul: Yeah. She also liked the ocean, she liked running in the ocean. 

Audrey: I also like the ocean! 

Paul: So, really quickly just to wrap up her legacy, one of Tai's paintings was autographed and it was auctioned off on eBay to raise awareness for endotheliotropic herpes virus to give to the International Elephant Foundation, which distributed it to the appropriate labs for research actively working to find a cure for it. 

And finally she did a Vanity Fair shoot in 2013 to raise money for other elephants. You can watch a three-minute video for it that we'll link you to in the show notes, but I'm going to share my screen. Okay, so this is from that Vanity Fair photo shoot. So there's actually two things… uh here is the outfits she was wearing. 

Audrey: Oh, baby girl! 

Paul: Look at that hat! 

Audrey: That's the biggest hat! 

Paul: Okay and then this is her playing in the water, which is pretty cool. And this naked f***in dude. 

Paul: Yeah, he's super… look at that dick! 

Melissa: Oh you there was total wang! 

Audrey: Okay, wait, wait, wait. 

Melissa: Yeah, no it was there. 

Audrey: He was comparing trunks. He's comparing trunks. He was — look look at him look at himself and then look at the elephant's truck! 

Paul: Okay, wait [ __ ] that hog. 

Jordan: Dude, a wang for one frame. There was a frame of wang. A frame of wang. 

Melissa: Audrey, you are correct. They were comparing trunk sizes. 

Paul: Just, this is insane. Vanity Fair put this on their website and they're like “Hey, dude check out this cute thing that we did!” and there's this a f***in dude hanging nuts like in the middle of a beach, like on YouTube. Like did no one quality check this to see it? 

Anyways that's all I got for the history and the life of Tai. I'm now going to turn it over to Audrey to do some “Movie Magic.”

Movie magic: How did they make the animals do that? (27:59) 

Hosted by Audrey

[Soft music, echoing voice: "Get ready for: movie magic."] 

Audio: Audrey: Okay here we go. Movie Magic. So, Tai was a calm friendly elephant and her experience as an animal actor allowed her to be in scenes with simulated gunfire and still be relaxed which made her perfect for this role. 

Is that a line from your section? 

Yeah, I found, I just, it was in the notes from Humane Hollywood.

That's amazing. 

Let's start out with some questions. I have three scenarios and I want to know if you think it was a real elephant or movie magic.

Audrey: On the boat? 

Paul: Real elephant. 

Melissa: I feel like it looked like it could be real.

Jordan: Using what I learned about elephants, I would say movie magic because elephants do get seasick. 

Audrey: Real.

Melissa: Oh me and Paul win.

Audrey: Okay, falling off the back of the plane. So this is the scene where they were starting to eject her out of the plane the first time she was on an aircraft. 

Melissa: I feel like the way they cut it, I think it was movie magic. The cuts were we like weird. 

Jordan: Yeah. Is the question was she really up really high in a plane? 

Audrey: I mean did she do, did she do that, did she do the stunt? 

Jordan: Yes, yes. 

Melissa: Well, yeah I feel like she did the stunt, but like they cut between — 

Paul: Did, did they drop her from like a thousand feet in the air? 

Melissa: No. Well I mean they did abuse her who so who knows.

Audrey: Yes, she really did the stunt, but no [whoa] no they did not dangle her in the air a bajillion miles above you know. 

Audrey: Okay and now the question everyone's mind: Was she really in the dumbo drop parachute? 

Melissa: I mean I sure hope not! 

Jordan: No

Melissa: I'm going to say no. 

Audrey: No she was not. 

Melissa: Good 

Jordan: Good. 

Paul: It looks so real, are we sure that wasn't her? 

Audrey: Okay so let's go through some specific scenes. First of all, there's the sedation scene. So the hilarious joke where they stuck the sedation thing up her booty. She wasn't actually sedated. She just laid down. It was a command and they dubbed in the sounds of snoring, so she wasn't trained to snore. 

Jordan: Damn it.

Audrey: I did not look up whether elephants snore. I wanted to and did not have —

Paul: That's where you drew the line. 

Audrey: I didn't want to draw the line, time drew it for me. For the record. 

Paul: That's a really good quote. 

Melissa: I like that. Time draws that line for all of us. 

Audrey: It does. Oh time do be drawing that line. 

Okay in the part where Bo tat is supposedly starting to come out of the sedation and she's like patting her trunk on the ground and lifting her head, those were just commands. So, truly most of the movie magic as we continue, you will see, was Bo Tat. She was just incredible. 

So there's the scene I was talking about before where I asked you if you thought it was real or fake where the palette floor starts moving. So this is when they were first in the plane and the people were like “No not an elephant! We're going to dumbo drop her ass right off this plane!” 

Melissa: “Dumbo drop her ass off this plane” is my favorite quote. 

Audrey: So they had a hydraulic palette. It was against a green screen, and here's the part that kind of blew my mind a little, is when her crate slips backwards and tilts off the edge of the open cargo door, they did do that. But they had her secured to a forklift and surrounded by I beams, which they say they painted out later. I just don't understand why it was necessary to tip her off of a right like that. [Right]. 

What a weird… I don't even feel like the shot was good enough to go through all that effort. It wasn't like I didn't pick that up. 

There was a line in the Humane Hollywood overview that very much confused me. It said that the crew members during the scene moved the plane up and down. 

Melissa: Oh maybe, so did they actually move the plane? Like put it on something to where it would actually move up and down like she woke up? 

Paul: I think shook a little bit, right? 

Audrey: Maybe, that's I don't know… but the elephant was in it, so how are crew members going to move it up and down? 

Oh good point. 

Anyway, doesn't matter, I didn't understand that. We're just gonna ignore it. 

I do want to pause here to say that the Humane Hollywood gave this movie a pass. Basically, you know, like an updated certification. And I think it goes to show that Humane Hollywood and other groups that make sure that animals are treated well on set can only make sure of what's going on, on set, you know? Like she was treated well on set, but that [yeah]. 

Jordan: They had no idea the things that were going on at home. 

Audrey: Animals were harmed in the making of this film, they were just harmed off of the set.

Paul: They said with Water for Elephants, they show elephant abuse in that and the irony is they had to abuse the elephant to basically be able to do those shots where she's faking abuse. 

Audrey: So, well, that actually brings up something interesting. It was an interview that I'd read about Water for Elephants specifically on a blog that was like a Robert Pattinson enthusiast blog. But, whatever, it was an interview with —

Melissa: Audrey liked that one.

Paul: Yeah she did. Give me them bat balls. 

Audrey: What? 

Melissa: Give you bat balls ‘cause he was Batman. 

Audrey: Oh yeah, dude. Oh yeah, okay.

Melissa: He's a pretty hot Batman. Anyways, I digress. 

Audrey: Yes give me the bat balls. So in this interview, they talked about how the actor who played the circus master or whatever, he was was so good that the fear in Bo Tat's eyes was real because he was just such a good actor. 

Paul: That's heartbreaking. 

Audrey: And that line stuck out to me because I was like, okay… But now it makes a lot more sense. It was real because she was abused in the same f***ing way. 

So anyway, back to movie magic. The part on the boat. One thing I immediately thought was “how’d they get this heavy ass elephant on a boat?” And it's just going just fine. Well they did have I beams under the deck to support the boat. A portion of the deck was lowered to keep the elephant feeling secure and in position and they used ballast to keep the boat afloat. And the boat had been pretested with way more than Tai’s 8,000 lb. (Impressive and amazing). 

And they had to put these like pallets and I beams basically everywhere she walked because she was so heavy, is something that I also read. 

So, the scene where she chased bananas. So when Bo Tat chases the banana cart through the village, the trainer was an extra that ran alongside her telling her to keep moving. And another trainer in front of her encouraging constant movement and ensuring that nothing got in her path. 

And they used that monofilament wire attached to like crates and tables and that type of thing to pull it back, to pull it over as she ran by, to make it look as though she were knocking everything aside. What f***ing elephant is going to chase a banana cart? Probably none. None elephants. 

I had to find out if elephants like bananas because now we've had orangutans who like bananas, we've had reindeers who like bananas —

Paul: It's part of our part of the journey.

Jordan: Ongoing investigation into the conspiracy of Hollywood bananas. 

Audrey: This is a, it's a huge question. And so here's what I learned. First of all, I tried Googling “do elephants like bananas?” And the answer was an easy “yes,” but it was kind of like a soft “yeah they like bananas.” So then I Googled “Do elephants go bananas for bananas?” in my desperation and I was rewarded with one single intriguing piece of evidence, which was a blog post by a random woman who went to an elephant sanctuary and talked about how they used bananas to lure the elephants along a trail to a watering hole. [Ohh] So in summary, I will accept it. I will accept it. 

Paul: So that was real. That was factual. 

Audrey: So once again, if an elephant, a reindeer, and Dunston were staying in a hotel —

Melissa: They would need so many bananas. 

Audrey: And Dunston's trainer looked, tried to figure out where Dunston was based on banana orders, he would have a really hard time. 

So the question on everyone's mind, I'm sure, how did they do the dumbo drop? To figure this out, I actually had to dive back into an old LA Times article from when the movie first came out. And they described the dumbo drop as being the greatest logistical problem of the film. It's because they had to make an elephant skydive from 10,000 ft along with Liotta's character, Ray Liotta's character, which by the way, was a stunt double because Ray Liotta is afraid of heights. 

Paul: If he would have done that, I would have like, he would have been my favorite actor. 

Audrey: So first of all, a talented creature builder named Rick Lazarini made animatronic elephants and the article says they were “painstakingly detailed doubles of Tai.” And I did see a behind the- scenes video and they really were impressive. Like I just was like, yeah it was very impressive.

These animatronic elephants had truck-sized shock absorbers in each of their feet. 

Melissa: What does that mean? 

Audrey: It's the size of a shock absorber that would be inside of a truck. And the animatronic elephants were powered by a generator that was hidden inside of the torso and the way that they accessed it was through the butt flap on the back of the animatronic elephant. 

Melissa: Through the butthole.

Audrey: They also had a bunch of other elephants that weren't animatronic, that weren't as painstakingly done. They were just used as stand-ins because they needed to do test drops to see what happened. And they had to troubleshoot the giant parachute that took a team of four people six hours to pack.

Melissa: Damn

Paul: Really? 

Audrey: They dropped it 18 times. So four crew members spent their [woah] entire work day—

Melissa: Their whole day. 

Audrey: packing a parachute. So they dropped the creatures a total of 18 times, occasionally crashing through trees or sinking into mud holes,[Destroying environments] because once again, once again we must disrupt the ecosystem to make our movies. 

Melissa: So for that whole end scene, I thought it was just green screened.

Audrey: It was not. 

Paul: I thought it was, too. 

Audrey: No, it was not. So we'll get to that, there was some green screen used, but no they legitimately, they really dropped it from a height. They dropped these animatronic elephants 18 times.  

Paul: And guess what? They didn't nail it. It's the worst looking shot throughout the entire movie. 

Audrey: Oh yeah, but here's what's insane: They had puppeteers using radio controls to keep the animatronic elephants looking alive and understandably surprised during its free fall. You guys, you didn't have to do all that! 

Jordan: I just don't believe it. I want to see all of this footage. That sounds insane. 

Audrey: Instead of just putting them in front of a blue screen like in her crate, they hung her from a crane. 

Melissa: Well, if they were doing a close-up, yeah they could have just had her on the ground. 

Paul: Did they blow wind on her or something?

Audrey: Like, I don't know, but they basically said they put her in this giant crane which she enjoyed a lot and she liked it like it was a big swing. So they had to get some wires up pretty quickly to stop stop her from swinging all over the place. You didn't have to put her on a crane! 

Melissa: Oh, but she liked to swing! She got to play. 

Audrey: So that's the story of how they did the Dumbo Drop, which was truly more impressive than the entire movie. 

Jordan: Yeah, that's… I really want to see actual footage of all of these.

Paul: And what happened to those robots? Are those robots anywhere still? 

Audrey: They might be destroyed from being dropped out of an airplane 18 times, but the last one —

Melissa: They were just like let it go, who cares probably. 

Paul: You got anything else, Audrey? 

Audrey: Nay. 

Paul: Alright, I'll turn it over to Melissa to do some fun stuff. 

Audience anecdotes (41:17) 

Hosted by Melissa

[Music in an 80s pop style with an echoing voice: "All aboard for audience anecdotes."]

Audio: Melissa: Alright guys, let's take a look at some animal reviews. So what did you guys think of Tai's performance as Bo Tat? And the rating scale I came up with for this episode will be out of five parachutes, large size parachutes. 

Audrey: Are they, the par— do they take six hours to pack? Six, oh my god, potentially with four people.

Melissa: They can. 

Audrey: Okay so it's big parachutes, thank you for clarifying. 

Jordan: I give her five. Yeah, she was good, I liked her a lot. 

Audrey: Yeah, perfect, no notes. 

Paul: I'm going to go with three parachutes because that would be what, 18 hours? And I could comfortably devote 18 hours packing a parachute based on her performance. This is the conclusion I'm coming to, and it's the same with any type of actor in a movie, but if the person doesn't know how to direct you or utilize you in a way that's awesome, the actor's performance suffers, whether it's animal or human. And I feel like with this movie there was too much of a focus on the main characters doing wacky s***, having slapstick, so like we saw a bunch of reaction shots of her which weren't bad and then there was a lot of her in the background, but I just didn't get to see that, like, you know, her eye, a tear come out of her eye or anything moment. [Okay]. 

Jordan: I thought she did good, I thought she did a lot of things, lot of interesting things, maybe I'm judging the use of her in the film. [Okay] sounds like you're being a jerk. 

Audrey: It does, because let's consider this is an elephant who was taken from her home, captured as a young, young baby, tortured and abused by her captors, forced to act in movies—

Paul: Whenever we talk about actors, we never bring up their past. It's always a performance on Paul: screen, yo.

Audrey: Alright, okay, let's talk just this movie. They flew her to Thailand— 

Paul: Bathed her every day in purified water, they had young boys hold umbrellas over her— 

Audrey: They swung her from a crane—

Paul: American food shipped in daily. 

Audrey: They made her—

Melissa: She liked the crane, it was like a swing—

Audrey: They made her ride a boat, and shot guns at her. 

Paul: She enjoyed the swing, you said it yourself m’lady.

Jordan: You're, it sounds like you're arguing against yourself, now, because you're saying they treated her really really well. 

Audrey: Oh geez. Alright. 

Paul: I'm just saying if you didn't have any frame of reference behind anything and you purely watched the film, I think she did good, I just didn't think there was a moment where she like killed it. 

Audrey: Listen, I give five six-hour, four-person pack parachutes to Queen Tai. 

Jordan: Same, five. 

Melissa: I, okay, so I'm not completely siding with Paul, but I'm going to give her, I don't know, I was going to say a four out of five. Like I want to give her the full five, but a tiny bit of what Paul said. But the thing is with all of the shots she was in she killed it. So that's why I'm kind of torn because she had so many different action shots. We got to see her laying down, we saw her running, we saw her swinging her trunk, and doing her little head bob thing. So she did do a lot of movement and I also feel like she was in a lot of the shots. So hmm, I don't know. I'm torn between a four and a five, maybe I'll do a four and a half. But, yeah I think she did amazing. 

Melissa: Now let's dumbo drop on over to some audience reviews… drop on over… you like you like how how I did that? 

Audrey: I did 

RottenTomatoes.com popcorn meter gave the movie a 29% average rating, which I felt was—

Audrey: Too generous. 

Melissa: Oh you think? 29…yeah. I thought it seemed fitting. I mean again the movie was not great. 

The first review I'm going to read is from Rotten Tomatoes. There's no username, but this is from 2013. They give it one star out of five and said, “I can't for the life of me figure out what the plot of this movie was. Why did they have to drop that elephant? Must not have left much of an impression.” And I resonated with that review. Like I said, halfway through I kind of was like “what are they doing with the elephant?” 

Then I found a couple of reviews on letterboxed where the movie had an average rating of 2.5 stars out of five, so again I feel like that's not bad. So we have a review from Chloe who actually gave it a five star and she said, “No idea why I loved this so much, maybe because an elephant made everyone a slightly better person in this.” 

Audrey: I also have no idea why she loved it so much. 

Melissa: Agreed, but I thought her comment about [that is nice], the elephant making everyone a slightly better person. Remember at the end, they were all like… 

Paul: I would argue I don't know how they got there. 

Audrey: No, Donald Glover made everybody a better person. Danny Glover [Yeah Donald Glover]. Jesus Danny Glover made— 

Melissa: Childish Gambino yeah made everybody a better person. 

Jordan: He did. He truly cared. 

Paul: But like also how did their personalities flip, too? I don't feel like they earned that. 

Melissa: They did not. 

Audrey: The switch in Ray Liotta's character was so abrupt that it was not at all believable. 

Jordan: Yeah I'd say the same thing. Everybody just flipped immediately when it was time to. There was no actual development. Maybe, I don't know, maybe a little, but not really. 

Melissa: And then the last review is from Jiffy— I almost said Jiffy Pop— their screen name is Jiffy poop which I like [Laughter] better—

Audrey: Beautiful. 

Melissa: They gave it a three out of five and said “Didn't have the splattery conclusion I was hoping for but it was fine.” 

Audrey: Jesus. 

Jordan: Come on. 

Melissa: I just, it kind of made me laugh. That would have been the ending. 

Paul: Oh my God they would just would’ve exploded in like credits. Can you imagine?

Melissa: A very different movie. 

Now we're going to jump over to the surprise scenario segment of the podcast. And my question for you all is: If you were tasked with transporting an elephant to a remote village like they were in the movie, what would you name the operation? So it's kind of like you're going to rename the movie. So what would you call it in place of "Operation Dumbo Drop?” And I can go first. 

Audrey: Alright, let's hear it. 

Melissa: So, I was trying to do a play on words and I like doing, I forget what it's called when letters start with the same letter— 

Audrey: Alliteration. 

Melissa: Yes. So I was thinking, like what is the term for like a pach pachyderm pachyderm, how do you say that? 

Audrey: Yeah, pachyderm I think. 

Melissa: Pachyderm Push. Okay, like they're pushing her out of— 

Audrey: What about Pachyderm Parachute? 

Jordan: Ooh, I like that.

Audrey: I got it: Bo Tai Gotta Fly. Oh Bo Tai Gotta Fly. Oh wait, s***, her name's Bo Tat. 

Jordan: Bo Tat, don't go splat, use your parachute. Your parachute. 

Melissa: Holy s***, that's amazing. 

Audrey: Bo Tat, Don't Splat. That's the name of the operation. 

Melissa: I kind of love it. 

Audrey: Bo Tat, Don't Splat. Tai the Elephant Gonna Fly. Too much. 

Jordan: Gonna be Operation Gray Thunder. 

Paul: Oh, I like that. Yeah, make the ground shake when you hit the ground and—

Audrey: She's coming down from the heavens, like coming down from the heavens

Jordan: Like thunder does. 

Paul: Mine would just be The Thunder Coming Down Under or something like that. Or Large and in Charge .

Melissa: Oh I kind of like that. 

Jordan: I like where that one's going. 

Paul: Yeah, or Operation Salvador Succotash. That's my other one I'm going with. 

Melissa: Bringing them back. 

Paul: You were in the military, like you get, you're on Operation Salvador Succotash. You be like what the f*** are you talking about? 

Jordan: I'm not in the military and I'm still like what? 

Paul: You got to take this robotic elephant and we got to jump 18 times. 

Melissa: Oh my God. 

\And lastly, we have adopt, take to the no kill shelter, or taxidermy. For this edition of our little game, the three options I picked for this are Bo Tat, the Vietnam War itself— [Jesus Christ. Oh my God.], and then numpai, which is the crazy rice wine that they were drinking in the beginning. 

Audrey: Okay I got this. Bo Tat, no kill shelter because she deserves a good life and a beautiful sanctuary. Adopting the wine, cause, sure. And killing the Vietnam War. 

Melissa: Oh! Killing the war? 

Jordan: Wait you can kill? 

Audrey: Whoops. Taxidermy. Taxidermy the Vietnam War. Let me think about this, again… Yeah, okay, taxidermying the Vietnam War and putting it in a museum. Kay, I’m done. 

Jordan: I'm gonna take the Vietnam War to the no kill shelter just because I'm really interested to see how that would work.

 Melissa: I thought you were going to say, like you said, “I'm taking the war,” so you were adopt—

Jordan: I'm not going to adopt the war. But that would be cool, too. 

Audrey: Do you think I could change him? 

Jordan: You could change, what the war? By adopting it? 

Audrey: Do you think I could change him? You know, I really, [I love it] I just think I can change him. I adopt the war. 

Jordan: He's set in his ways. 

Paul: Just work a little harder.

Jordan: So, yeah, I will take the war to the no kill shelter, because just the thought of that is kind of mind-blowing. and I'm adopting the elephant, obviously he's gonna live with Dunston and me.

Jordan, we do not have room for an elephant in our backyard. I adopt, you got to remember I've adopted a few of these even, you know, the ones that you’re, this like, you shouldn't adopt them. They're here with me. 

Paul: You're going to have a fleet of animals at your house. 

Melissa: We barely have enough room for anything in the backyard. 

Jordan: The elephant's going to be awesome and then that leaves the rice wine is getting taxidermied. [Nice.] I'll just put it on the shelf. That's it. 

Paul: I would taxidermy Vietnam the war, ‘cause I feel like you would have like an entire just space that you could travel to and it's like perfectly preserved. Dude, it would be awesome. 

Audrey: Paul's touring the Vietnam War. 

Melissa: Yes, he is, in taxidermy—

Paul: Like a pocket in time, dude. Like why not? And then I'm with Jordan. I'm gonna f***ing adopt Tai ‘cause, like when the f*** else am I going to get an elephant? Dude, like that one go hard or go home. 

And then I guess I would no kill shelter the wine. So, that you know everyone could get some. Dude, like if you're in a no kill shelter might as well get lit dude. 

Melissa: I feel that. I'm going with Audrey on this one. Same exact choices. I'm going to adopt the numpai, or rice wine, because it sounds delicious… 

Audrey: Wait, I think they actually described it as gross— [vomit.] 

Paul: Yeah, 

Melissa: yeah as like vomit and sugar or something. I'll just plug my nose and you know, down the hatch. I'm going to take Bo Tat to the no kill shelter and hope that she finds a much better life away from her abusive trainers. And then I will also taxidermy the Vietnam War and I don't really know what I would do with it. Maybe it could be one of those like…

Audrey: Might be a nice, like DnD. [Ooo] 

Paul: Well like Vietnam's huge right? 

Audrey: Like well you're assuming you make it big. I assumed it would be small, which is why it would be in a museum. 

Melissa: It could go either way, really, but I was going to say, yeah if it's taxidermy I could also just be like here's an example of what not to do: Go to war. I don't know. 

Paul: Do you have anything else, Melissa? 

Melissa: Nope, that's it, Paul.

Paul: Alright, thank you everyone for hanging out with us today, it was a total blast except for this movie is not that great. So, still fun to talk about it. 

Audrey: It was a lot more fun to record this podcast than to watch the movie, that's for sure. 

Melissa: Agreed

Paul: yeah

Jordan: it really was.

Paul: It was a slog and to talk about her history that was rough, but thank you again for everyone joining us. If you stick around with us next month, we'll be doing the 1988 film “The Bear” featuring Bart the bear, so if you like the show please feel free to “like,” “subscribe,” “comment,” or you can check out our website and see some really cool stuff like transcripts or the the links that we did our research on. So thank you everyone for joining us and huge thank you to our co-hosts, Jordan, Audrey, and Melissa, thank you guys!

Thank you for listening to Hoofin’ it in Hollywood. This podcast has been produced by Paul, Audrey, Melissa, and Jordan. Please note that this content is intended for entertainment purposes only, we are not professional researchers and the views and opinions expressed are our own. For more information and links to the resources mentioned in this episode, please check the show notes or visit our website at bit.ly/Hoofin-Hollywood. If you found this episode enjoyable and wish to support the podcast, we kindly ask you to like, subscribe, and leave a rating or review on your preferred podcast platform.

All screen captures included in this article are intended to complement review and research of "Operation Dumbo Drop"