Peter McCullough on The Joe Rogan Experience

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[00:00:00.070] - Intro

All day.

[00:00:03.270] - Joe Rogan

Well, sir, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. I've seen a lot of your testimonies before they were actually taken down. I've seen some of the videos that were yours that were taken down off of YouTube. I found that very odd that a doctor talking about a medical disease would have videos taken down. An actual expert would be either testifying or discussing treatments and talking about a disease and have those videos taken down off of YouTube. Well, first of all, if you would please just state your credentials and tell everybody what you do.

[00:00:41.620] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. I'm an internist and cardiologist. I'm also trained in epidemiology. I'm an academic practice in Dallas, Texas, so I see patients about half the time I saw patients yesterday, drove down today to see you here in the studio and the rest of my time I spend as an author, an editor. I'm an editor of a major Journal in cardiovascular medicine. The former editor of an international Journal, the President of a major medical society right now, currently about five years into that position, and I frequently publish in my field, I study the interface between heart and kidney disease.

[00:01:14.800] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm the most published person in my field in history. I have over 650 publications in the National Library of Medicine. I imagine that's probably ahead of anybody you've had on the show. You mentioned Paul Merrick. I'm just ahead of Paul Merica, Pier Corey. You mentioned him in critical care. I'm just ahead of Paul, a lot younger than he is. And when COVID hit, I really dropped everything to put all of my academic efforts on this because I saw it as an all hands on deck situation.

[00:01:43.110] - Joe Rogan

Now, when did things start to seem strange to you? In terms of the way the information was allowed to be distributed in terms of the way people were treating patients and not just that, but the information on how to treat patients was distributed.

[00:02:00.390] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I didn't see this coming. To tell you the truth, I was pretty happy in life. Medicine was moving along for me and had a very highly ranked position at a major academic medical center and traveled frequently and did all the things we normally do in academic medicine, meeting interchanging, challenging, being skeptical with one another. That is the lifeblood of academic medicine. And things are going great. In March, this hit, we immediately took efforts. We thought it was going to hit Dallas. We started looking at things, how to configure our workforce.

[00:02:34.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I went and got a grant, got a large grant to study a prevention approach to protect our workers at our health care facility. And I work with the FDA over a weekend to get an investigation drug application awarded in my name in order to test a prophylactic approach. And things were going great in March. And I can tell you it wasn't but a few weeks in April on these task force calls I was on routine health system calls once a week, and I was on one with the National Institutes of Health, and I asked the question.

[00:03:05.440] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I said, when are we going to start to treat the problem? People are getting sick out there. They're starting to be hospitalized. Some are dying. When are we going to start to treat patients? It's too late for the hospital. It's too late to treat people. It's obvious they're dying in the hospital. We must start early and you could basically hear a pin drop on these calls. No one had an idea about treating COVID-19 at home.

[00:03:28.590] - Joe Rogan

Was there no thought about it? Was there no discussion or was it just not a point of focus? What was the problem there?

[00:03:36.250] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I think it was a grip of fear. Doctors for the first time in their lives felt like they could get the disease themselves. If they actually saw an examine these patients. All the discussion was on personal protective equipment, hand sanitizer, negative air flow rooms. It was all about protecting health care workers. There wasn't any focus on sick patients. And after the weeks went by, I became incredibly frustrated. I started communicating with our Italian colleagues. I said, What's going on? You guys are getting blasted in Milan. Is there anything we can do to treat patients at home and stop these hospitalizations?

[00:04:11.310] - Joe Rogan

And were you alone with this concern? Were there other doctors that were joining you with this and were there treatment protocols that had been put into place that were being tested?

[00:04:22.010] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There were no treatment protocols that emerged. We started looking at work done by Didir, Riolt and Marseille, France, by Vladimir Zelenko in Monroe, New York, and started communicating very early on with the Italians. And I had great relationships with the Italians in Milan. And what we had decided is we had decided on some principles early on their first collaboration, and my contribution was really to get people together, get the ideas together and publish. And I had the publication strength that other people didn't and got the first organized ideas together.

[00:04:57.820] - Dr. Peter McCullough

In April, May, June, we submitted our paper July 1 to the American Journal of Medicine, which is one of the highly ranked journals in medicine. And it was published in August. This is the first publication teaching doctors how to treat Covit 19 with a multi drug regimen. And the ground rules were this. We knew it was insufficient time for large randomized trials. Those take two to four years. I lead large randomized trials. I published in the New England Journal of Medicine. I know what this is about.

[00:05:27.060] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm on steering committees. We don't have two to four years. This is a mass casualty situation. We use the precautionary principle, meaning that this is a mass casualty event. We can't wait. We're looking for drugs with a signal of benefit and acceptable safety. We knew very early on that this viral infection had three components. It was viral replication, cytokines, storm or inflammation, and then thrombosis. So we know a single drug wasn't going to handle the problem. No way it was going to be a multi drug Regiment, just like with HIV, just like with hepatitis C.

[00:05:57.190] - Dr. Peter McCullough

No difference. Multi drugs. So precautionary principle. We used signals of benefit acceptable safety drugs in the combination test, retest and go. And so at the time we submitted our paper. Joe, there was about 4000 papers in the peer review literature on covid 19. I started to check that there was 55,000 papers in the peer review literature on COVID-19 and about 4000 that could have related to certain drugs, but not a single one. Put the concepts together and how to treat patients.

[00:06:26.650] - Joe Rogan

So this was the first one and it was published in August.

[00:06:29.750] - Dr. Peter McCullough

August of 2020. American General Medicine. The title of the paper was the pathophysiologic rationale for the early ambulatory treatment of COVID-19. That quickly after August spawned the Association of American Physician and Surgeon's Home Treatment Guide. So AAPS interesting organization is independent doctors. They accept no money from pharmaceutical agencies. They've been around since 1943. They had early on sued the federal government to release the stockpile of hydroxycorquin. US had the right idea. As other countries, they stockpiled hydroxycrquin. Then there was the problem of it wasn't being released from the stockpile.

[00:07:08.750] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And so during my development work early in 2020, I got a call from the White House. Peter Navarro called me. So listen, Mikala, can you help me get hydroxyclock? When released, Rick Bright and others in the FDA seemed to be colluding to block hydroxyclarkin coming out of the stockpile in Marseille, France. Did. I was working with hydroxychloroquine and it was over the counter. In France. They made a prescription and they started making it hard for him to use. And then simultaneously in Australia, they had taken hydroxychoric and they had put it up in Queensland as basically an untouchable drug.

[00:07:40.330] - Dr. Peter McCullough

If a doctor attempted to use hydroxychlaric to treat a Covit patient in early April, that doctor can be put in jail. So these things started happening early to try to prevent treatment of patients with COVID-19.

[00:07:52.260] - Joe Rogan

Why do you think that's the case? And why do you think that hydroxychloroquine would have been effective 2006 forward.

[00:07:59.690] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There were studies with hydroxychloroquine that demonstrated that it reduced replication of Sarscovi one, the first version of the SARS virus.

[00:08:10.620] - Joe Rogan

Yeah, we talked about that the other day. Wasn't it just chloroquine? Was it chloroquine or hydroxychlorine?

[00:08:16.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Originally there was cloroin, hydroxychloroquine and methylquin. So there's antimalarials. They're similar in terms of their biochemical property, but they have three mechanisms of action. They increase the lysosomal PH. So when the particle is taken into the cell, it doesn't travel so well to the nucleus. Chloroquine or hydroxychlone bring in zinc. It's a zinc ionophore. Zinc goes in and actually antagonizes the RNA dependent polymerase, which is needed for the virus to replicate. And then hydroxylaric one is a well known and established antiinflammatory. We use it in lupus.

[00:08:48.220] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We use it in rheumatoid arthritis, and it's obviously an intracellular anti infective we use it for the prevention of malaria.

[00:08:54.050] - Joe Rogan

Was the problem, that there was a lot of problems with Donald Trump being in office, that when he would approve of something or when he would talk about something, people would attack that thing. And hydroxyclark became something that he talked of as a cure and talked about as a treatment for COVID. And then it became politicized. And then support for hydroxychloroquine became support for Trump. Would you think that was accurate?

[00:09:25.710] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'd have to look at the timeline. Boy, it was quick because the backlash against hydroxy CorkON was so strong in Brazil and Australia.

[00:09:33.670] - Joe Rogan

Why do you think that is, though?

[00:09:34.840] - Dr. Peter McCullough

No. But the question is, did it happen before, after Trump said anything, it happened very quickly through the course of the year was extraordinary. Do you know the second largest producer of hydroxy Cork? When the plant was mysteriously burned down outside of Taipei? It was extraordinary. What was going on? Doctors from Africa were telling us that there were some type of mercenary people raiding the pharmacies at night and burning the hydroxy coroquin.

[00:10:01.010] - Joe Rogan

Now this is before the emergency use exemption or the emergency use authorization for the vaccines. The emergency use authorization. In order to have that you cannot have effective treatments.

[00:10:15.730] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We have to be careful. The emergency use authorization is a new mechanism or a previously unused mechanism for regulatory pathways of drugs. And my interpretation of it and everybody's interpretation is fair game. So it's pretty loosely written quite honestly. Depends on indication. So a vaccine would be indicated for the prevention of COVID-19 illness, hydroxychoroquin or Bamolivumab, or any of these other drugs we approved for the treatment of two separate indications. The EU should not be viewed in my view as competitive. In fact, it can't because remember, Bamalivimab, the Lily product as well as Remdesivir, the Gilead product.

[00:11:00.810] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They preceded the vaccines and they didn't preempt the vaccines coming on the market.

[00:11:05.230] - Joe Rogan

But remdesivir had problems of its own. Correct with kidney failure.

[00:11:11.410] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Remdesivir was basically a repurposed, failed Ebola drug and it does have intellectual property ties through Gilead back to the Chinese. So the Chinese originally were collaborating with us very tightly. I have tons of emails from the Chinese. They were trying to alert us. What's going on with Kova 19. Rum deserve came up. It's a polymerase inhibitor. As a general, I told you, hydroxychloric one has three mechanisms of action. You've reviewed previously Ivrmectin, which also has three separate micros of action. Remdesivir is a one horse show. It's a single mechanism.

[00:11:41.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It inhibits the polymerase. And unfortunately, as the data have borne out, it's given far too late in the illness. Right. So the polymerase is active early in viral replication. So if you gave it on day one, it may actually do something, but if you give it on day 14. By the time someone comes in the hospital, the virus is done replicated at that point in time. And then all I can do is offer toxicity. And you're right. It's a five day infusion of remdesivir. Early on, we heard about the hepatic toxicity.

[00:12:09.640] - Dr. Peter McCullough

In my experience, I could never get a patient through five days of therapy because the liver function test, ASD and alt would skyrocket. Now it's become clear it's been associated with acute kidney injury and the kidney injury is not tolerated in Coba 19 because any retention of fluid makes the oxygen saturation and lungs far worse.

[00:12:28.750] - Joe Rogan

So why do you think there was this demonization of hydroxylan? And do you have a theory as to why they would try to restrict the distribution of it or why they would if someone wanted to burn down the factories that produce it, why they would do that?

[00:12:46.880] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It was clear that Hydroxychloric one was the most promising drug that we had for COVID-19. By the way, we tested Benivar Lepinvir HIV drugs, they quickly fell to the side. Other drugs were tested, but hydroxy came forward as the lead agent and currently we're up to 300 completed studies with Hydroxychoroquin 32 early treatment studies, and it does have an effect size or an efficacy early in treatment of about 64% globally across the studies and its toxicity profile is well understood. Hydroxychloquin like Ivomectin and the other drugs are already FDA approved.

[00:13:30.580] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The FDA tells doctors to use drugs off label it's in their guidance to us. And actually FDA has a piece to patients that was published in 2018 saying, Why does your doctor use off label drugs? And it says when the doctors are fulfilling an unmet need, I EcoBit 19. There's no new drugs for COVID-19. So we use these drugs. What's called clinically indicated, medically necessary, appropriate off label use of drugs. Hydroxy was the first one up. A giant mistake was to actually place an emergency use authorization on Hydroxyclone and the original that was placed on Hydroxy, which didn't need one because it's already on the market, right?

[00:14:07.700] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It was placed for inpatient use. And then the interpretation was that it was a hydroxyclark and was restricted to inpatient use. So once it became restricted at inpatient use, then there were messages saying, Listen, don't use it unless somebody is an inpatient. Then when we found out the hydroxychloriclin like Iver Mectan works best early and has less of an effect late like all the other drugs because people are too far gone. Once those trials are completed, there's five randomized trials of inpatients with hydroxychloroquine as they're about to go on the ventilator.

[00:14:35.780] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And those five trials are neutral. They don't show harm, they don't show benefit. They're neutral. One of them was the NIH trial. There's only two placebo controlled trials, by the way. So we've based the entire house on hydroxychoroquin on two placebo controlled small inpatient trials that didn't have sufficient power to see an effect if indeed, it was there. Having said that they were flat on the outcomes of mortality and progression in the hospital. And so based on that, in June of 2020, the FDA came out across the board and said, Based on this, do not use hydroxyclaric one to treat covid 19 period period, full stop.

[00:15:12.000] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They never reviewed the data a second time or a third time. And I can tell you, as a doctor, the FDA, the CDC and the NIH are public service agencies to me and you, we don't work for them. They don't issue us rulings. They work for us. And I'm telling you, as a leader in academic medicine, my expectation was monthly reviews from those three entities and the White House task Force. Matter of fact, the White House task force can do it. I needed a monthly report of what drugs are working and what drugs weren't.

[00:15:40.700] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We didn't see any of that.

[00:15:42.120] - Joe Rogan

Why do you think that is?

[00:15:44.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I talked to Scott Atlas. I presented with him a couple of weeks ago, and I had dinner with Scott. He was on the inside. He worked side by side with these people for months. I said, Scott, what is going on? Scott goes, I did what Peter McCullough would do. I showed up every day with the data. I analyzed things. I had the updates on what's going on. Dependent. Scott was focused on mass contagion control in schools, but he's an academic. He's at Stanford Hoover Institute. I said, yeah, I said, what about the other people in the task force?

[00:16:12.730] - Dr. Peter McCullough

What about the head of the NIAD? What about the CDC director? He goes, they showed up with nothing. I said, you got to be kidding me. They're not analyzing any data. He goes, Have you ever seen them come on TV and analyze any studies? I said, no, he thinks that this is a crisis of academic incompetence. Believe it or not.

[00:16:32.010] - Joe Rogan

Just incompetence, not some sort of a conspiracy to demonize hydroxychloric, win for profit for some other means to promote some other treatment or drug.

[00:16:46.810] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It wasn't me but someone in the crowd. This was a symposium that was held by Pam Popper. By the way, Pam Dr. Popper's got a wonderful book out on COVID-19, and so does Scott Atlas. His was about the White House. And someone in the audience asked Scott. He said, Listen, do they have another intention? Were they directly trying to squash hydroxychoric at the time? He said, no. He said they had good intentions for the nation. He said, they're just incompetent.

[00:17:13.840] - Joe Rogan

So is it possible that the demonization of hydroxychloroquin was because Donald Trump supported it? Because I know the way I had been hearing about it was hearing about it through him. He talked about it. It's basically a miracle. Do you remember all that stuff he was saying? It was a miracle.

[00:17:33.820] - Dr. Peter McCullough

As I recall, that was late March. I think when it was honestly made illegal in Australia. It was early April. I went on Tucker Carlson, we had the same type of discussion, Tucker says. How did the Australians know to make it illegal so early in April, he goes that's before all the research was done. Remember, Henry Ford came out with a 3000 patient study and actually used in the hospital. It wasn't randomized, but they got consent. It was very carefully done. I was a program director at Henry Four in the past.

[00:18:02.150] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I know that institution really well. High quality, top shelf. I was communicating with them. They said, Listen, it works. It is clear it works. This is an unconfounded study. And that was one of the studies that, in fact, we relied upon in order to put hydroxychloquin in sequence multidrug therapy. That was before the data with Ivomecan came in. Ivomectin came in later. And so our update when we published our update in December of 2020, we brought in Ivomectin, the Japanese octose about FAVI perivire in the Russians head.

[00:18:31.770] - Dr. Peter McCullough

A lot of people don't know this. There is an oral antiviral approved and used in Japan and Russia and four States in India called Favipiravir. That is an oral polymerase inhibitor, so it's like an oral remair. It's very similar to the new drug Molapirovir. This is an oral polymerase inhibitor. So the antivirals we actually buy our recommendations now had three antivirals that we could recommend worldwide for that layer of treatment. Now, antivirals alone are not sufficient, and they are not necessary to treat Covit 19. It's very interesting for people to say this.

[00:19:06.420] - Dr. Peter McCullough

People wanted to put up hydroxychorquin up on a pedestal and say, Listen, if we can knock down hydroxychorquin, there will be no treatment for Covit 19 and we can promote some other agenda. Or if we can knock down Ivomectin and Dr. Chetty from South Africa and Dr. Brentios from South America, given the politicization of both drugs, because Ivermectin in the next wave became the next target of polarization, if you will, in its politics. But I have to tell you, it's so worldwide. I hate that word politician.

[00:19:35.050] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I think it's some other process. But the point is, they demonstrated that the syndrome as an outpatient can be treated without those drugs. They use a different combination of drugs in the sequence. The Chatty method is called the time method, where in a sense, you let the viral, you make the virus, make us run on replication and then pick it up with Montelucas cypridine, inhaled steroids, oral steroids, and then antiquoigans. They treat the back end of the syndrome.

[00:20:01.030] - Joe Rogan

Now, again, though, why do you think hydroxychloroquine was demonized? Why do you think that it was especially so early on in Australia? It can't be universal competence across the board. So one of the things that's interesting about Ivomectin is it's not demonized worldwide. It's distributed widely in other countries, and it's shown some effectiveness.

[00:20:23.710] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Absolutely. You know, Ivory Mechan now is first line in Japan it's attributed to crushing the curves in Mexico. In Peru absolutely crushed the curves in India. We've been in close communication with them. Ivakhtin is an interesting drug and I know you've reviewed it in depth on this show, so I'll leave it to experts like Dr. Corey and others there, but I use it every day in my practice I have no problems with Iver. Mechanic is safe and effective. There's been a Nobel Prize awarded in 2015 for Ivomectin.

[00:20:56.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

But hydroxychoroquine, I think worldwide is still the leading drug used to treat covid 19. Just because of its availability, it's known dosing about the interesting thing between hydroxychoric one and Ivomectin is Ivomecan has a range inpatient and outpatient and has a bigger effect size in general. Both of them are still lacking. The 20 to 40,000 patient clinical trial as a singular drug, and I honestly don't think we'll ever get there. By the way, we're in the multi drug space, so we're never going to go back to single drugs.

[00:21:29.490] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We're in the multi drug environment. So there are no large multi drug trials even planned at this point in time. So we're left with where we are signals to benefit acceptable safety. But to finish the thought, Ivomecan has a range of effect sizes that are gratifying inpatient and outpatient diminishing efficacy later. Hydroxychlon has really no support on the inpatient side outside the Big Henry Ford study. So Hydroxy is largely an outpatient drug. The advantages of hydroxychoroquin are stable. Dosing 200 milligrams twice a day. We either go 510 or 30 days.

[00:22:03.820] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We even have protocols where it's been done that way. Ivomectin, the dosing is 200, 400 or 600 micrograms per kilogram, and the dose intervals still are yet to be standardized and worked out. So it's interesting. So you see an entire range of doses in Ivory, even clinically today. I don't know. Do I go five days? Do I do ten days? Do I do every other day? I don't know. We use the drugs and I'm comfortable with that. I can live with ambiguity in the setting of a crisis.

[00:22:30.770] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The point is, these are very safe and effective drugs are useful drugs. I saw a trend. You've asked me three times, so I'm going to answer it. I saw a trend starting in April, May and June, where it became clear that anything we were doing to try to help patients with early treatment was receiving a chill and the chill was coming through academic institutions through the medical literature. I think the Capper was in June when there was a fraudulent paper published in Lancet on Hydroxychloroquine between Harvard and a company called Surgisphere.

[00:23:06.230] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And this never happens. Atlanta is like the new Journal Medicine of the World. I'm the editor of a major Journal. I run a Journal. I know what it takes. There are Editors, associate Editors, reviewers. There is pinpoint accuracy. We check references, we check plagiarism. Believe me, it's a tight world out there they basically published a fraudulent paper on hydroxyclark in Lancet in 2020 around June, and they let it hang up there for two weeks stating that hydroxyclarkin was associated with harm when used in patients with COVID-19 who made this study.

[00:23:36.830] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It was between. One investigator was at Harvard and it was by a company called Surgisphere that nobody knew what this company was. It turned out to be a company that literally just dissolved or went away without anybody understanding.

[00:23:49.360] - Joe Rogan

So it's a company that was created specifically to do this.

[00:23:53.770] - Dr. Peter McCullough

All I can tell you is I looked at the data, Joe, and they had tens of thousands of people. They claimed we're hospitalized with covid 19 fairly early in the pandemic. The average age of these people hospitalized was in the low 40s. I looked at this paper in 2 seconds. I thought, this doesn't make sense. We were hospitalizing people in their 80s, not in their 40s. And so to me, it didn't look right. And then people started writing Lancet saying, Listen, this doesn't look real. And they started receiving tons of emails.

[00:24:20.590] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And then Lancet basically retracted it and said, we rejected no apologies, no explanation. I interpret that. And that occurred right before the FDA said, don't use hydroxychloroquine. It almost looked like it was a step to basically try to bury hydroxychoroquin as a therapy.

[00:24:40.790] - Joe Rogan

But why? This is what I still understand. What do you think is the motivation and why was it so worldwide as a doctor?

[00:24:47.750] - Dr. Peter McCullough

All I can tell you is the medical literature. As we are seeing it come about. There was once the discovery that the spike protein on the virus, the discovery in the medical literature. Now that discovery we learned actually occurred years before. This was amenable to neutralization with vaccine induced antibodies. Once that became abundantly clear in the literature, there appeared to be almost a lockstep developed where people said, that's it. That's the solution. We're going to vaccinate our way out of this problem. We don't even need to worry about how to treat the problem.

[00:25:23.520] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We don't need to hear about drugs to treat the problem. And the enthusiasm and the hubris for vaccination spread across academic medical centers all over the country.

[00:25:32.970] - Joe Rogan

But what about the people that were currently sick and they were still waiting for the roll out of the vaccine. So if you're talking about August, the vaccine wasn't rolling out for another four months. And that's just for elderly people.

[00:25:45.970] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I published an op Ed in August of 2020 in the Hill, a Republican Journal for Washington people and others in those circles. And the title of the oped was The Great Gamble of the covid 19 Vaccine Development Program. And what I saw is I saw a total shift on everything for the vaccines. Do you know major clinical trials of hydroxychloro were dropped? Ivory mechanic things were dropped. We had programs for FAVI Piervier. The Canadians had a big thrust for Fabian Periova has dropped. I was the principal investigator overall for the Ramatchaban program.

[00:26:25.910] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That was a Japanese product. It was an anti coagulant antihistamine look very promising. We had great preliminary data. We had bear that was going to give us all the doses we needed to treat America. I was on calls between the NIH and the FDA. Back and forth, back and forth. I couldn't get any traction in the summer of 2020. It was obvious. In fact, I remember one of the Operation Warb Speed officers telling me, Listen, sorry. We have everything organized for the current program. I was also the assistant.

[00:26:55.270] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I was kind of second in charge of the Modulon program, which was a cellular based vaccine that was a vaccine similar to the BCG vaccine, which is given for tuberculosis. We had noticed that regions that were vaccinating for tuberculosis like Haiti and countries in Central Africa, very little Covet. And so we had the idea. We got a Dutch manufacturer to actually make this cellular based vaccine. We're going to vaccinate healthcare workers. Same thing. Endless proposals between NIH and FDA got nowhere because it looked like it was already pre decided that the current set of genetic vaccines were going to move forward.

[00:27:29.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There wasn't going to be any discussion on early treatment. I thought it was a gamble. I was faced with more and more of my patients getting sick with covid 19 and what I told people all over. I said, Listen, I can't let the virus slaughter my patients. I'm not going to do it. I said, there's got to be something I could do early on. I used hydroxychloroquine. Other drugs in combination once appear. Cory, I give him great credit. His first contribution is actually steroids in the use of COVID-19.

[00:27:56.080] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So we started using steroids. Once it was shown to us, we added steroids. The data started coming out anti coagulants, and that's how I put it together. I tell you, Joe, every single one of my high risk patients I've always treated to prevent hospitalization and death. Of the 800,000 deaths that we are right now, I can tell you to a one they've received either no or inadequate early treatment.

[00:28:21.970] - Joe Rogan

All of them.

[00:28:23.410] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Go look in a table of baseline characteristics of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 and look at what they received before they came to the hospital. In fact, there's one paper by IP and colleagues. Last name is spelled IP. It was published from New Jersey early on. And in that paper back when there was a surge of hydroxychlorous in the spring of 2027% of people had received some prehospital hydroxyclone before they got to the hospital. They had improved survival. Even some prehospital treatment really worked. So what happened is when we came up with our treatment protocols, the protocol that I mentioned, it sounds like describing what you received as a treatment.

[00:29:04.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

You basically received. The McCullough protocols now been copyrighted sequence multidrug. Once the monoclonal antibodies came in, that became a building block in our program, and we can maybe show that my multidrug protocol on the screen if we can look at it. The point is that any pre hospital treatment was associated with improved survival because we're taking an edge off of our application, reducing some of the inflammation, preventing some of the thrombosis. If we let this thing run for 14 days, Joe, the lungs are filling with blood clots by the time the oxygen saturation goes down.

[00:29:36.180] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's not the virus the Italians showed us through autopsy studies. Very courageous autopsy studies. The lungs are filled with microblock huts.

[00:29:46.210] - Joe Rogan

So in your opinion, if your protocol had been established and distributed worldwide, if people had recognized that this is a way to deal with early treatment, you think that the overall number of covered deaths would have been significantly reduced.

[00:30:03.680] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I testified in the US Senate, November 19, 2020. I told Americans under oath that 50% of the lives at that time could have been saved. We were at about $250,000 based on what I knew. I then testified on March 10, 2021 in the Texas Senate sworn testimony, I upped that to 85% of the deaths could have been avoided. We know that because we carried out studies, we did one with Proctor here in Dallas Fort Worth, where we demonstrated that even the early primordial protocols before the coronal antibiotics, when we use drugs in combination, were associated with 85% reductions in hospitalizations and deaths compared to fair compared to groups for death.

[00:30:47.870] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We use the Tri County area and DFW averages age adjusted and for hospitalization, we use the Cleveland Clinic, Calculator, which is a very precise estimate of the risk of hospitalization. Then simultaneously Durham and Zelenko showed that from our own New York data and then did a reality showed it from Marseille, France. So we have three different areas showing early multidrug therapy as an outpatient works substantially, and we've had a giant loss of life, a giant number, millions and millions of unnecessary hospitalizations. And it seemed to me and I've told Tucker, Carlson and many others.

[00:31:22.680] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It seems to me early on there was an intentional, very comprehensive suppression of early treatment in order to promote fear, suffering, isolation, hospitalization and death. And it seemed to be completely organized and intentional in order to create acceptance for and then promote mass vaccination.

[00:31:46.810] - Joe Rogan

So you believe this is a premeditated thing that they were doing. So they realized that in order to get people enthusiastic about taking this vaccine, the best way to do that was to not have a protocol for treatment.

[00:32:02.970] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It's not just my idea now. It's completely laid out by the book by Dr. Pam Popper, the book recently published by Peter Breggin Kova, 19 in The Global Predators, We Have the Prey. I wrote one of the introductions, Dr. Lee Fleet and Dr. Vladimir Lesnko wrote the other introductions. These books are basically nonfiction. They have 1000 citations in the pregnancy book showing how it was coordinated and planned. Now Bobby Kennedy has his book out the Real Anthony Fauci, the most mentioned physician in that book. I can tell you that if you want to find the evidence that Moderna was working on the vaccine before the virus ever emanated out of the lab, if you wanted to find the collusion and the operations between the Gates Foundation and Gavi and Sepi and Pfizer and Madurna and the vaccine manufacturers and the Wuhan lab and the National Institutes of Health and Ralph barricad University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

[00:33:01.290] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And how all this was organized. If you want to see the Johns Hopkins planning seminar called the Spars Pandemic in 2017, where they had a symposium, people showed up. They wrote up their symposium findings. They published this. It says it's going to be a coronavirus. It's going to be related to myrrhs and SARS. It's going to come over here to the United States. It's going to shut down cities and frighten people. There's going to be confusion regarding the drug hydroxychloronolivermectin. And we're going to utilize all that in order to railroad the population into mass vaccination.

[00:33:34.590] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It's laid out in the Johns Hopkins sparse pandemic training seminar. The only thing that got wrong was the year they said it was going to be 2025. Instead, it landed a few years early.

[00:33:47.170] - Joe Rogan

How did they organize something like this? And how do you get so many doctors to go along with this? How do you get so many doctors to not speak out against the lack of pre hospitalization care, the lack of early treatment.

[00:34:02.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We think there's about 500 doctors who knows what's going on in the United States.

[00:34:06.800] - Joe Rogan

500, 500.

[00:34:07.860] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We got a million doctors in the United States. We got half a million nurse practitioners and physician assistants. I can tell you the nurses are more awake than the doctors.

[00:34:15.790] - Joe Rogan

Why is that?

[00:34:16.680] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The doctors appear to be like many of our leaders, by the way, all the leaders of the major churches, every single one of them, the major religious branches are under the spell. Every major global international leader is under the spell. We're in what's called a mass formation psychosis. This is very important. I give credit to Dr. Matias Desmott in the University again in Belgium. And recently, Dr. Mark McDonald, psychiatrist from La Mark McDonald's got a new book out the United States of Fear, describing how the mass psychosis develop.

[00:34:51.520] - Dr. Peter McCullough

What your listeners need to know is a mass psychosis is when there is a group think that develops that's so strong that it leads to something horrific. And the examples are these mass suicides that occur in these religious cults. The example is Nazi Germany. When people walk into gas Chambers and we guess these horrific things in four elements here. It's very important, Joe. First, there must be a period of prolonged isolation. Lockdowns number two, there must be a withdrawal of things taken away from people that they used to enjoy that's happened.

[00:35:22.140] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Number three, there must be constant incessant, free floating anxiety, all this new cycle, all the deaths and the hospitalizations, more variant mutant strains, everything, people becoming scared over and over again. The last thing, number four, the Capper is there must be a single solution offered by an entity in authority. And this case is clear worldwide. The solution was vaccination. Everybody must take the vaccination. It's not a US program. It's not a European court. It's everywhere. And you know what joke doesn't matter what vaccine it is.

[00:35:56.180] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It could be Chinavac CoronaVac. It could be Nova vaccine. It could be Pfizer Moderna J and J. It's interesting that it doesn't even matter what vaccine it is. It's just take a vaccine, take any vaccine. And so what mass psychosis says is number four, the solution. There's no limit to the absurdity of the solution.

[00:36:17.350] - Joe Rogan

Other countries have been much more ruthless in their enforcement of vaccinations, and it's kind of opened a lot of people's eyes as to what's possible when you look at some of the European countries, the way Germany is handling it, even though we New Zealand is handling it in Australia, for sure, people are terrified when they're seeing these places that they thought of as being as free as the United States falling into this sort of totalitarian regime situation where the government is telling the people what they must do and literally checking everyone for papers.

[00:36:55.550] - Joe Rogan

And people don't seem to think that this is a problem. A large percentage of people don't seem to think this is a problem. They think it's good because we need to vaccinate everyone. But they don't have an issue with what has historically always been a problem with people. When you give governments extreme amounts of power over people, they tend to like to use that power and they don't ever want to give it up. And we've opened the door to these new levels of power for the government.

[00:37:27.070] - Joe Rogan

And people say, well, that's important because we have to do it because we're in the middle of a pandemic and we have to treat these people because some people are silly and they believe conspiracy theories and they don't want to take the adequate treatment. And that's going to get everybody else sick, which doesn't really make sense. But the whole thought behind it is that this is temporary, but it's never temporary. Power lost is never regained. All freedoms lost unless you fight for them. They're kind of lost forever.

[00:37:58.400] - Joe Rogan

And so these people that are giving into these green passes, and they're seeing that in Israel now, right where Israel used to be. You have two vaccines, two shots, and then you get the green pass and you're considered fully vaccinated. You can enter society now they're saying, no. Now you have to have a third. And now they're considering a fourth, which is wild and there's no end in sight.

[00:38:23.270] - Dr. Peter McCullough

If it was about covet, I would say that the world would have adopted something that I presented to the American people and the Senate testimony in November of 2020. I told America, listen, there's four pillars to pandemic response. We should have always seen teams of doctors in Washington. I would have won if they called me. In fact, I emailed them. They know who I am. We would have seen teams of doctors in Washington working on four pillars. The first pillar is reduced. The spread of infection. Terrific.

[00:38:54.290] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Everything we can to improve air flow. We know it's spread by the air. It's not a hand infection. This focus on hand sanitizers, like we're all getting infected. Hands.

[00:39:03.100] - Joe Rogan

It's pretty early on.

[00:39:04.790] - Dr. Peter McCullough

You still go on DFW Airport. There's hand sanitizers. Every 6ft, there was pictures of people spraying football stadiums with sanitizer. It's not spread on football seats. It's not a contact organism, it's not Ebola, it's not. It's spread in the air. But if we would have focused on contagion control, that was reasonable. That would have been terrific. The most effective contagion control, by the way, is 2021. Data is actually using oral nasal viral therapy far and away.

[00:39:34.840] - Joe Rogan

Can you explain that, please?

[00:39:35.950] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Yeah. Oral nasal viral cycle therapy is basically using virtually anything kills the virus. Any disinfectant kills the virus, iodine kills it on contact. So if we use dilutebetedine and so if you take a beta dine over the counter, it's a Brown bottle. We use it to sterilize wounds in the ear, bite it in any pharmacy and take two teaspoons and 6oz of water. Take a nasal spray or a syringe bulb and spray it up your nose, snort it back to the point, back your throat and spit it out.

[00:40:07.300] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm sorry, that's gross for your audience, but you got to get it up there and back that adequately decontaminates the nose, then gargle with the rest of it. Spit it out, finish up with some scope or listering doing that after you return from a day out with contact with people, especially close contact in close rooms. I'm talking public restrooms, small conference rooms. You have to be in contact with someone for about 3 hours. Honestly, in a small room with no airflow to get it or go into a loaded room like a public restroom or type places at small stores.

[00:40:38.180] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The bottom line, that's where people get it from once it gets home. 85% of it spreads in the house. But using oral nasal viral cycle therapy is such a huge advance that in a randomized trial by Chowdery and colleagues from Bangladesh, 303 patients randomized to this viral Cyto therapy, which is all topical, no prescription drugs, nothing else needed versus a control group, which was just warm water. 303 patients in each group, it dramatically reduced the PCR positivity by day three. It knocked it down from 303 down to 24 patients still positive.

[00:41:09.830] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Those who got the control, they're still all positive and it markedly reduced by Vaszily 75% chances of having progressive disease ending up the hospital or death. And it's enormously preventive. And now we learned we can use hydrogen peroxide with some Lucas Iodine and believe it or not, the dentists in the American Dental Association guidelines used for cytomyclovirus and Epstein Bar virus gingivitis. They use sodium hypochlorite that's actually dilute bleach. Turns out it just takes a few drops of bleach in some household water. That's for the mouth.

[00:41:41.970] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We typically don't use it in the nose, around the eyes. But remember when President Trump mentioned bleach and everybody had a big horse laugh on that? It turns out he just couldn't articulate. Someone was giving him the Ada recommendations for antiviral therapy for the mouth. The point is, pillar number one should have been contagion control. It should have been focused on the nose and the mouth. We learned it early. We learned it late, but if we could have used any of that early, it would have helped.

[00:42:07.330] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Randomized trials of masks didn't work. Hand sanitizers and spraying football stadiums. There was even in Europe, they were spraying the sidewalk. That doesn't work.

[00:42:14.580] - Joe Rogan

Do you think the masks have any effect on the limiting the spread?

[00:42:18.720] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Every time I go on Fox News, Laura Ingram always tease up some comment on masks and masks are not my signature focus, right? And the reason being, if two people don't have the virus and they wear a mask, can it possibly do anything? Of course not. So in randomized trials of mass, the vast majority of people don't have the virus. So if you put masks on, people don't have the virus, it's not going to do anything. Mask expert. Mr. Steven Petty, who I've presented with. He is a world's expert on mask.

[00:42:49.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

He's an engineer with a typical mask that someone wears. Do you know much air moves around? The mask is 18% moves around the mask. Of course it doesn't work. Masks only filter out about three microns. The virus is one Micron. So the point is, what do masks do? Do I wear a mask? Sure. I'm a doctor. I go into the hospital. I'm in the Cath lab. I'm close contact with people, dentists, hairdressers, people at close range wear mask. It may stop a big sneeze. It may stop partially, some big emanation of inoculum, but we shouldn't have had the air time and the public health focus on masks.

[00:43:24.440] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I think if we would have taken all of that energy and put it on treatment protocols and update on drugs, we would have been better off. But that's contagion control. Pillar number two is early treatment. We've talked about that pillar number three, which is really important, is trying to improve the hospital treatments. And we should have had monthly updates from our federal officials and our agencies about where we are with early treatments. And for sure, our local medical schools should have all had early treatment updates once a month.

[00:43:53.790] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Come on, the medical centers are facing their Super Bowl? Do you know today in America, we have 300 medical schools. Harvard, Yale, Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, not a single hospital has their own unique protocol to treat COVID-19. They don't have a single original idea. Do you know that none of those organizations, Joe, have ever treated a COVID patient to prevent hospitalization and death? I told Tucker Carlson he almost fell out of his seat. I said, yeah, they don't have a single idea how to treat COVID-19 patients outside the hospital.

[00:44:31.760] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Suddenly our best and our brightest are out of intellectual.

[00:44:34.770] - Joe Rogan

Ammo I want to talk more about this mass psychosis? Do you believe that this is an organized mass psychosis? All these steps that you put about isolation, taking away basic freedoms and then offering up one individual, single solution to this. And this is what has sort of fueled this. What's very obvious to people that there's a lot of people that are not acting well. They're not acting normal. They are attacking people that seem to be ideologically opposed to whatever is going on. And they're marching in lock step with the authoritarians, and they're doing it like you would like Stockholm syndrome or something.

[00:45:26.930] - Joe Rogan

It's very strange. Do you think this is an organized thing? Do you think this is just what happens when you have a massive group of people that are dealing with an incredibly tense and anxiety ridden event, like a pandemic where no one knows what the solution is? And a lot of people are terrified of just everyday life. And then all of a sudden, something like this comes along. And those are the people that are more easily manipulated and they fall in line together because there's sort of a tribal aspect, this type of thinking and behavior, and you find support from other people that are equally afraid.

[00:46:03.690] - Dr. Peter McCullough

No, the massacre is clearly focused on pillar number four. That was the last pillar I presented to the Americans in November of 2020 in the US Senate. This is before the vaccines came out, and that is vaccination. Listen, vaccination should play a role. I've taken all the vaccines. My kids have taken all the vaccines. I went to India. I took extra vaccines. So you don't have any problem with vaccines? What has happened is I want to say, by April of 2020, it was clear that the vaccine development program was far more advanced than we ever could have imagined.

[00:46:39.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

How could we have actually figured out the neutralizing antibodies and have the sequence to the spike protein and have all that ready to go? I've already figured out how to load it into messenger or add Noviral DNA. How do we actually get that to run? Remember, there are 24 of these platforms. They had all previously failed, except for Petrosan. A lot of people don't know this. There is a messenger RNA product. I can use that as a cardiologist called, butirosin it's a small, interfering messenger RNA that we use to treat amyloidosis.

[00:47:07.070] - Dr. Peter McCullough

But the previous trials of gene transfer technology, which is what these are, were normally to replace a missing protein. So, for instance, I'm a cardiologist. I treat a condition called Fabrics disease. It affects the heart. There was a messenger RNA program to basically replace the missing enzyme alphaglacticitis. But in this case, to take these platforms and say, you know what? These are ready to go. We're just going to insert the code for the Spike protein, which is now what we've learned is the lethal part of COVID-19, the ball of the virus.

[00:47:37.710] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The nucleocapsid that beach ball is relatively harmless. What causes all the damage is the spine or the spicy. On the surface, everyone knows a cartoon of the virus that's called the Spike protein, 1200 amino acids, about a dozen glycosylation sites. It has some homology, by the way, to HIV. And so a lot of people don't know this. But one of the original antigenic vaccines that was tested in Australia exposed that HIV epitome. It turned everybody in the trial HIV positive, who took a covid 19 vaccine in Australia.

[00:48:12.150] - Dr. Peter McCullough

These young people were outraged. And so this was on the Internet. It was quickly suppressed. But if anybody wants to type this in right now, you can actually learn that one of the very first vaccines trials in Australia actually turned everybody HIV positive. They didn't have HIV. But there was a molecular trickery that was going on. Having said this. Now, when we look back, when we look at the books, Popper Braggin, Robert F. Kennedy and now Atlas, it's pretty clear that this was planned and it was planned.

[00:48:43.050] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And the elements of the mass psychosis are clearly planned. In fact, the elements of the mass psychosis are in the Johns Hopkins planning document. They had that up on their website since 2017. Once the pandemic hit in March of 2020, they actually published it in the peer review literature. You can see how it was all done. That's how the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health had the death count up on CNN and MSNBC and Fox as a scoreboard. Do you remember the scoreboard was number of cases in deaths.

[00:49:12.330] - Dr. Peter McCullough

How do they get that, Joe, come on. I fill out death certificates every day. Do you know the average death certificate comes to me six weeks after the death. How are they getting these dust? Instantaneous numbers picking up every day. It was extraordinary what Americans saw.

[00:49:28.240] - Joe Rogan

So how are they getting that to this day?

[00:49:30.560] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We don't know to this day, we don't know. All we know on the CDC website is the CDC website says that about 90% of the deaths that have occurred with 19 have been associated with significant comorbidities, meaning other major problems that were in the proximal pathway to death. The Italians have just recoded all their deaths. They say 97% of the Italian deaths, meaning someone had heart failure, advanced lung disease, kidney disease on dialysis, advanced cancer. A good example was Colin Powell colonpollo just died recently. He was in his 80s.

[00:50:07.740] - Dr. Peter McCullough

He was fully vaccinated and he died of multiple myeloma. But he was also COVID positive. And so the question is, how much of the COVID did he die of and how much of the multiple myeloma. Larry King died the same way. We'd have to go far to find well known personalities where this happened. The point is, the desk were coming in quickly. It may be the fact that the desk, the vast majority of them, occurred in the hospital. So we didn't have to have this prolonged outpatient death certificate signing, and things were mainlined from the hospital.

[00:50:39.240] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We know President Trump's authorization for the testing became the way that the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health got the scoreboard for positive tests. And that executive order said all the laboratories and all the departments of public health doing testing will report positive tests to the center, the Johns Hopkins Center. And they did, that means Quest LabCorp Abbott. All of them started to have a flow of test. Interestingly, there was no reconciliation for duplicates. So if you would have went to one testing center and put your name as Joe Rogan and you went to another testing center and said, Your name is Jose Rogan or something, you'd come in as two different tests.

[00:51:22.000] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There was never any reconciliation. And we understood over time that the number of tests positive was, in a sense, padded. It was padded by duplicate tests. It was padded by this idea of asymptomatic testing. So one of the big discoveries in 2020 is that the virus is not spread asymptomatically it's only spread from sick person to susceptible person. This is a very important two major papers, one by cow from China, one by Madewell nailed this down. Once we learned that Asymptomatic testing wasn't happening, it became clear the Swedes were right.

[00:51:55.100] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Scott Atlas was right. The only thing we needed to do was just keep sick people at home. They were the only people who needed a quarantine. And, well, people could go do what they were going to do. Somebody can't walk into a workplace with no symptoms and give the virus to somebody else. It doesn't happen.

[00:52:09.710] - Joe Rogan

The problem is with that is that a lot of people are not honest about their symptoms. We had a guy at a bar that we work at. That we do stand up at. He showed up. He's like, he's just saying, Guys got a headache. And someone said, what do you mean? You have a headache? And he goes, I've just got this headache. And he goes, Have you been Kova tested? And he goes, I don't want to test positive. Then I'll have to take off work. And they went, what?

[00:52:35.380] - Joe Rogan

And so they tested him. He was positive and they sent him home. But that guy was going to greet customers at a comedy club.

[00:52:44.130] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Valid point. The new thinking really has to be either. We don't trust people, and we asymptomatically test everybody but the World Health Organization, as of June 25, says no asymptomatic testing. The FDA has never cleared these tests for asymptomatic testing. The CDC doesn't give a green light to do this asymptomatic testing. And people like you and me, we just walked in. We have asymptomatic testing that if we get a positive, the chances that positive are as false positive is 97% 97%.

[00:53:14.140] - Joe Rogan

And that is if you're asymptomatic completely asymptomatic.

[00:53:19.010] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And to make matters worse, so many of us have already had coveted 19. And now our CDC admits finally, through a Free Information Act, lead attorney Aaron Siri pressed the CDC and said, Listen, you're saying you can get COVID twice. Show us a case. Show us a case. Press. Finally, the CDC director came out and said, you know what? You can't get it twice. We've never had it.

[00:53:40.330] - Joe Rogan

But I have a friend that got it twice.

[00:53:42.300] - Dr. Peter McCullough

What you have is you have a friend who thinks he had it twice. What happened is on one or more occasions it's a false positive test. Or he actually had the dead virus that he's carrying forward. Somebody in my family circles had COVID-19 for sure had it got sick. That person tested positive intermittently 17 times.

[00:54:04.500] - Joe Rogan

But this wasn't just a test positive. He got sick, he recovered. And then about seven, eight months later, he got sick again, tested positive again and had a much milder case of it, but still got covered twice.

[00:54:18.420] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Yeah, it wasn't a second case. This is what's happened for sure. Yeah. There's about 100 purported cases like this in the literature. I've looked at them all. What happens is we would need a rigorous definition of put it this way. If you could get covered 19 twice, we would have seen hundreds of millions of cases. Do you know how susceptible the elderly are? This would have swept through the nursing homes over and over again. We would have seen grandmother's on the ventilator 16 times. I'm telling you right now, you can't get it twice.

[00:54:48.330] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The criteria are this reason why the CDC says it can't happen? The criteria would be that you have a positive PCR test at a low cycle threshold less than 28, and you're positive on the antigen immunoassay test. So the nucleocapsid is there and you do sequencing and you can actually find the virus sequence there. Now you do that on two occasions. You do that on one occasion and someone's really sick and has a characteristic signs and symptoms, and you do it again six months later. Then you actually have the first case of recurrent infection of Coba 19.

[00:55:20.850] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There's nothing that meets that rigor. To make matters worse, the CDC has now admitted that the methodology they used for the PCR originally, the CDC methodology that was distributed to all the departments of Community Health and where the laboratory derived assets for the health systems in the early parts of the pandemic cannot distinguish between flu and on COVID-19. So invariably someone had flu on occasion one and tested positive and was pretty sick, and then they had COVID-19 the second time or vice versa.

[00:55:50.370] - Joe Rogan

Right. So if that's the case, why is there this resistance to the idea that people have natural immunity to.

[00:56:02.830] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The vaccine? All roads lead to the vaccine. Why is there no single Harvard protocol or Mayo Clinic protocol to treat covid 19 to prevent hospitalization and death? Why, we're two years into it. You mean Harvard won't treat a single patient at home to prevent a hospitalization? I said at the very beginning, I said there's two bad outcomes there's hospitalization and death. That's it. If you could get through this at home and not end up in the hospital, the whole world could get through this. And, you know, not a single leader could articulate that goal of avoiding these hospitalizations, not a single leader.

[00:56:39.820] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Trump couldn't say it. Biden couldn't say it. Mark Holmes couldn't say it. Nobody could actually state the problem. This is what Scott Atlas is saying. There is a global ineptitude where they can't even state what the problem is. If you get to go to any one of these CEOs health systems and say, what are you doing to prevent hospitalizations and deaths with COVID-19 as a composite outcome, they draw a blank.

[00:57:02.830] - Joe Rogan

Now, if all roads lead to the vaccine, what is motivating all roads to lead to the vaccine, why is everyone falling in lockstep? Why aren't there people who are looking at this logically and saying even if you get vaccinated, there's a good chance that you could have a breakthrough, particularly now, there was a while back where they were saying that breakthroughs are incredibly rare. They're not incredibly rare at all anymore. I know 1213 people that have gotten COVID post vaccination, and I know a few of them that were hospitalized trying to avoid hospitalization should be a priority for everybody, including people that already vaccinated.

[00:57:45.070] - Joe Rogan

Why is there no emphasis on this? What's the motivation like? What is the motivation for all roads to lead to the vaccine in this binary approach? That it's only the vaccine that can help us.

[00:57:57.550] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, let's be fair to the vaccines. And I think this is important to mention. I was under oath, testified in the US Senate, and they asked the very last question they asked. Our panel was, do you have any problems with the vaccines? Timeframe November 19, 2020. None of us set a word because all we had was press releases. Joe, we learned that the vaccines out of the clinical trials over a two month period had 90% vaccine efficacy, 90%. Now, what that meant is if you had a clinical trial and you had 18,000 people in each group, that vaccine versus placebo, that when you looked at the number of cases, there would be 100 cases of COVID in the control group, placebo group and ten cases in the vaccine group, that's 90% vaccine efficacy, 100 versus ten.

[00:58:43.890] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They're just giving sample numbers. That looked terrific, but Interestingly. Wait a minute. 18,000 in each group. What's the problem? That meant that less than 1% of people got coded. Now, during that time frame, our labs were recording 510, 15% coveted Positivity rates. How did the vaccine trials recruit people with a less than 1% chance of getting coveted? How did they find these people? Well, I can tell you, we were a vaccine clinical trial center, the most fastidious people doctors, other people. They were very careful people, upper middle class webexers who were just on Webex.

[00:59:19.240] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They were scared. They were in the vaccine clinical trials. They recruited people who never got challenged with COVID. They never even got exposed to COVID. So the vaccine clinical trials were not a good test run of if you got exposed to COVID, what would happen? So then the vaccines rolled out and we had December. People started enrolled, young doctors in the hospital, took it. I watched it happen. Then they went to nursing home seniors, February, January, February, and we got to February. I was like, wait a minute.

[00:59:46.530] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Where's the report? White House task force or the NIH or CDC or FDA. They need to come on TV and give us a report. How many people have been vaccinated, how many people have failed the vaccine and get hospitalized anyway? And how many people have been injured with the vaccine or what's the side effects? No report. So we got to February and there was no report with the vaccines. It turns out that we actually never learned what the vaccines were doing on efficacy until much later.

[01:00:11.620] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Now, once we had August, September, and October, this is much later. We had data come in from Arrears from the spring, and we learned the following. A paper myself and colleagues from the CDC said for protection against hospitalization, there was substantial protection against hospitalization. Now it's confounded by the fact that healthy people take the vaccines less healthy people don't take the vaccines. And the hospitalization is confounded by the fact of differential testing, meaning that once somebody takes a vaccine, the hospitals don't test them for covert.

[01:00:46.160] - Dr. Peter McCullough

When they come in for gallbladders and they come in for other things. If someone doesn't take the vaccine, the hospital is testing them. Right. And we know people can generate false positives. So the differential testing exaggerated the effect of the vaccines. But even with that exaggerated effect, I want to give your listeners a fair evaluation of efficacy. And what we know is that this first report that came in by self from MMWR March through August of 2021, the vaccine efficacy for Moderna was 92% for Pfizer was 77% and Johnson and Johnson was 68%.

[01:01:23.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Now that's biased. It's loaded with a lot of bias. But I'm telling you, the vaccines did do something in terms of reducing hospitalization and death now in the caveat. They say, listen, we didn't have data on Delta and it looks like the vaccine efficacy dropped off after six months. Now 1040 came in in JAMA and this was published in the fall of this year and they had an 85% protection overall against hospitalization. But again, don't forget, the hospitalization could be influenced by this testing bias. But if we look at the data in figure three, which is dealing with in this paper, people who really had Covet and did they progress onto the mechanical ventilator or did they get worse?

[01:02:04.730] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And the answer was there was a. 59% protection against getting worse. But mortality in the 1040 papers, one of the best vaccine papers, mortality for those who took the vaccine and were hospitalized with COVID was 6.3% and mortality for unvaccinated, and they just took their chances with COVID and the hospital was 8.6% and that P value was not statistically significant. So there was a mortality benefit, but it wasn't statistically significant. And so the last paper we have to point to is by cone and colleagues, cone from the VA, 780,000 individuals, 700 and 8225 individuals in the VA.

[01:02:42.700] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And they basically demonstrated that age over 65 for noncovid related deaths. The vaccine is associated with the reduction in noncovid related deaths, meaning people who take the vaccine are less likely to die because they by selection bias. They had about a 1% overall absolute risk reduction in death. And then the COVID protection from death due to COVID or death with Covet was about a 1.5% that's it absolute risk reduction that's cone and colleagues age over 65. Now, importantly, what happened is in September. The vaccine efficacy fell off a cliff for all the vaccines.

[01:03:25.060] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And what happened in September was very important. September was about the six month anniversary of everybody because most everybody took the vaccines early. And September was also the first month of fully shading in on Delta. We got to 99% Delta, which basically many papers show is resistant to the effect of the vaccines.

[01:03:49.850] - Joe Rogan

This is much smaller than any of the reports you ever read online or see on television. This is a much smaller Avenue of advocacy.

[01:04:02.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm presenting the data in terms of absolute risk reduction from the survival curves. There's a way of presenting it called relative risk reduction, which gives a much bigger number. But what a lot of people want to know, people on the street want to know. Listen, what's my chances dying of COVID and I can just give you the number for us veterans. Let's have people listen to this. And this is after about four to six months of taking the vaccine, those who are positive, veterans over age 65 who are covered positive and died with covid 19.

[01:04:38.690] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Let's flip it around to survival, Joe, to survive want to be exact, since fact checkers will be looking at this was 87% for those who took the vaccine and for those who did not take the vaccine, the number was about 78%. That number was basically in the mid part. It's about 1.5%, and then it extends out at the end of the survival curves to about a 10% absolute difference.

[01:05:24.900] - Joe Rogan

So the vaccine efficacy drop off of six months. Is this for everyone or is this for people? There was a study that was recently highlighted showing the difference between the way obese people process antibodies. Is this for everyone? Is it more effective and healthier individuals? Is it more long lasting? Yes.

[01:05:49.320] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The best paper to look at that is by Nordstrom and colleagues, Sweden 1.6 million pairs of vaccinated unvaccinated. The outcome is symptomatic, COVID-19 infection, not hospitalization and death. Madurna starts out at a month at 92%. Vaccine efficacy. I'm sorry. Pfizer starts out at 92% vaccine efficacy, and it drops off to 23% after six months. Modern starts out at 96%, and it drops down to 69%. And now we have 22 studies showing that the vaccine efficacy basically markedly diminishes after six months. That's the reason why all the authorities have agreed.

[01:06:26.470] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We have to give boosters at six months and the groups that do the worst and this has been published are those who are immunocompromised. So the immunocompromised people worry about them the most. But the bottom line is they get the least benefit of the vaccines.

[01:06:40.430] - Joe Rogan

They get the least benefit of the vaccines. They're the people we worry about the most. And they're also the people that we don't criticize their choices because particularly the obese ones we don't say which I think they should have said right off the bat.

[01:06:54.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, interesting. Immunocompromised by the CDC wouldn't include the obese. So it includes people with blood disorders, chronic leukemia includes those transplant recipients. The most common category that your listeners would fall into is immunocompromise are people on chronic cortical steroids. So people with severe adultiathma rheumatoids lupus that would be immunocompromised. You're talking about general comorbidity categories like diabetes, obesity, heart lung disease, kidney disease, chronic cancer. Those are basically risk factors for hospitalization and death with COVID. And there's the reason why, by the way, particularly obesity. You know what it is?

[01:07:31.590] - Joe Rogan

Yeah, we talked about it, but please explain it because I can't repeat it.

[01:07:36.650] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Sarskovy two, the virus has got two very unique things as a viral syndrome. The first is this cytokine storm or this hyperimmune activation, and that cytokine storm leads with the most unique cytokine inner look. And six. We've never seen this before. Interlocan six is produced by human fat cells. So the virus triggers human fat cells to produce a ton of inner look. And six, which itself is damaging. And so those who are fat have a much greater depot and an ability to produce the site of kind storm.

[01:08:10.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's the reason why obesity is an exquisite risk factor for mortality is because the unique side of Kind signature of Sarskovi two. The other thing that's unique about the infection is blood clotting. We've never seen an infection that causes blood clotting. This blood clotting is in the final pathway to death with this virus. Because of the spike protein, the spike protein attaches to cyloc acid residues on the surface of red blood cells. It causes red blood cell aggregation. It trips off the coagulation cascade in an interesting way, and we can see this in patients where we see a D dimer level that's elevated and doctors learned to actually as a signature of COVID-19 the D dimer levels when they're elevated.

[01:08:54.310] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It actually means this coagulation process is likely going on.

[01:08:58.220] - Joe Rogan

So the compromise of the immune system that comes about from obesity, is it scalable? Is it like if you are £100 overweight? Is it much worse than if you're £40 overweight?

[01:09:10.910] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It's clearly scalable.

[01:09:13.910] - Joe Rogan

So that's something that should have been discussed publicly along with the drugs, along with the possible early treatment options?

[01:09:22.150] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, if we could have in a perfect world if we addressed all four pillars of the pandemic response. If we did what Bangladesh did and just start actually doing the oral nasal hygiene approach.

[01:09:33.410] - Joe Rogan

Is that what they did right away?

[01:09:34.520] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's where the trials were done. They're almost down to zero COVID 160,000,000 people. They're on top of each other over there. They're down to almost zero Kobet because they've got the discipline down to when they go out in public settings. When you went out with that guy with a headache, when you came home, just do the oral nasal decontamination. You would have knocked down the viral particles enough where your body probably would have fought off the rest. And you don't get the syndrome. Do you know my patients right now when they're coming down with Cobid, we actually blast with the dilute palvidone iodine in the nose and the mouth.

[01:10:02.900] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We blast every 4 hours while awake and we knock down the viral load, particularly with Delta. Delta has 251 to 1000 times viral load in the nose, so it's replicating like mad and we can knock it down and reduce the amount of viral inoculum in the human body. I personally had Kovicho. It was in the fall of 2020. I didn't know about this. It baked in my nose and mouth for about three days and I sat there. I did nothing. I was scrambling for oral drugs.

[01:10:32.360] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Why didn't I knock it down with some type of treatment in the nose? Chronic cynicitis patients have been using Netty pots or they've been using saline mistress. All we have to do is add a little peroxide or a little bit iodine to that and knock down the viral load. I could have had a much milder syndrome.

[01:10:48.530] - Joe Rogan

So that would be one way to approach it that you feel is very effective. This other protocol that you have established is another great way to approach it. Are there people that are in agreement or disagreement with you that you like disagreement in particular that you respect and you see some merit in what they're saying.

[01:11:12.110] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, the disagreement would be don't treat patients.

[01:11:14.990] - Joe Rogan

That's it.

[01:11:16.030] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Think about it. Well, when I published the paper in American General Medicine, so I was the first person in the world to put a stake in the ground saying that we can treat Kova 19 at home and prevent hospital.

[01:11:26.890] - Joe Rogan

Has anyone said to you, don't treat patients?

[01:11:29.750] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The letters of the editor came in, Joe. There was about six of them. They came in from Duke, from Manash, from, I think, McGill in Montreal, from Europe, South America. They said, Dr. Mccullough, you can't treat coveted patients. I was like what they said, you can't treat. You don't have enough evidence. You can't do this. You could cause harm. Joe Alpert is the editor of American General Medicine. He let this go on. Every letter came back and I said, Overcome your fear and let's break the grip of therapeutic Nealism.

[01:12:04.400] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And let's start treating patients to prevent hospitalization and death. And in our circles, there is no discussion. I was in the endowed lecture at Harvard two years ago, fanfare me and my wife. All these pictures. Everything is wonderful. Do you know not a single institution has invited me to lecture on the early treatment of Kovac 19. Remember, Harvard doesn't treat people. Neither is Mayo Clinic. Neither is UCLA. Neither is a medical school here in Austin. They don't treat a single patient. They have nothing to offer.

[01:12:37.480] - Dr. Peter McCullough

When Didia Rialt set up his treatment program in Marseille? He put out tents outside the medical center there. They try to shut them down. He goes, Listen, I'm going to treat patients because they're sick. Marseille, if you ever been there to all these retired, older French citizens pretty well to do, they're down on the French Riviera. They were getting sick with COVID-19. He opened up an outpatient treatment center and he started treating people and started gathering this data. They tried to shut them down. They took hydroxychoric one.

[01:13:03.680] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They made it over the counter. There's been doctors whose doctor arrested in South Africa for using Ivory mechanic loud. There has been suppression. And where we know things really got obtuse is when we came to the monoclonal antibodies, these monoclonal antibodies, they really work. And let me tell you what, we've got three terrific ones. Now we have Lily is back with a combination of Bama, livamab and urchisamab, which is wonderful. We have Regeneron, which Trump received, which is a combination of imdimab and karasivamab. And now GSK.

[01:13:38.340] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Since May has Socharvamab. Socharvamab is actually antibodies directed against the glycoprotein. So it's going to be basically resistant to any mutant strains. These antibodies in general, all the studies show given early have at least a 50%, if not an 85% reduction in hospitalization and death. I use them every day, Joe.

[01:14:02.410] - Joe Rogan

I took it when I got sick, and I think it's one of the primary reasons why I got better so quickly.

[01:14:06.550] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And you got and what Aaron Rogers got and what President Trump got is basically how I drew it up for America and the world. And, you know, that science is going the right way when people like myself and Pierre Corey and Didier realtor, what have you we're working independently and we come up with the same conclusions. Pierre and I did not Recircle, did not actually come to much later. And that's exactly what you want to see. You want to see external validity, people working independently, coming up with the same ideas.

[01:14:36.190] - Joe Rogan

What is the resistance to the monoclonal antibodies?

[01:14:40.490] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The resistance has been, in a sense, an opacity to them. Meaning I testified in the Texas Senate in March 2021. And right ahead of me was this wonderful doctor. And she talked about her 90 year old father who was saved by monoclonal antibiotics. And I sat through 6 hours of self congratulatory testimony by all these Department heads in Cross, Texas. They were talking about hand sanitizer and doing evaluations and vaccines. I got up there and I told Koquart, who's the chair of the committee right here in Austin.

[01:15:19.260] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I said, Where are these monoclonal antibodies? Where are they? Where is the 1800 number? So we can access these monoclonal antibodies. Where is the list of treatment centers where these monoclonal antibodies are? How come we don't have billboards up there telling the poor seniors where the monoclonal antibodies are? Do we stock these in nursing homes or people getting sick? Do we even know there is a hide and go seek going on with these monoclone antibodies? And I can tell you in Florida, there's been a big push to use monoclonal antibodies, and they've had the same problem that there was this, in a sense, lack of government prioritization for the monoclonal antibodies was the last time you saw a feature in the news on these monoclonal enterprise.

[01:16:01.550] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There's no word of them. They're wonderful products. Operation Warp speed.

[01:16:06.510] - Joe Rogan

Are they limited in any way?

[01:16:08.220] - Dr. Peter McCullough

No.

[01:16:09.530] - Joe Rogan

How are they produced?

[01:16:10.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, they're produced in the same technology that we would produce Humera and Remicade all these. They're called fully humanized monoclonal antibodies. And so they're produced in a method where once there's a fully humanized mouse and the code for an antibody is created in the mouse, that gene is transferred into what's called the Chinese hamster ovary suspension. And that actually produces massive quantities of the antibody. That's how they're all produced. And anybody who's taken Humora, anybody who's taken Rapata or PROWe went, they know what I'm talking about.

[01:16:44.930] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The point is, they're safe and effective in medical economics. In 2020, it was already disclosed in the table that we had already purchased 100 million doses of these, and we had on order 500 million doses. There are plenty of monoclonal antibodies. My point is, the government's almost on purpose, and the local and federal state agencies are not featuring these. And let me tell you, I gave a lecture, a symposium for doctors in Amarillo and doctor symposium, Amarillo Country Club. Within the last month, one doctor in the room was wearing a mask.

[01:17:17.360] - Dr. Peter McCullough

None of us were wearing a mask. And I went over early treatment. I went over all the science we talked about today, and he goes, I'm the public health director here, and I want to tell you something that 85% of people dying of Kova 19 in our county are unvaccinated. I wanted to make that statement and I said, Listen, you're running the monoclonal antibody program here. How many of these deaths received monoclonal antibodies? He goes, Well, I don't know that. I said, Listen, the vaccines aren't treatment.

[01:17:50.070] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The vaccines aren't treatment. The monoclonal antibodies are treatment. Do you see the absurdity of this? This is the mass psychosis. He is completely and totally focused on the vaccine. Yet he's got the most important tool right in front of him. What I said in the Texas Senate, I said, the most important thing is the sick person right in front of you. That's it at any given time. It's way less than 1% of people are sick with covalent. Nets team focus on the sick person. And then that's how we win the battle against covid 19.

[01:18:20.470] - Joe Rogan

Do you think that it's possible that people will wake up to the idea that there should be many approaches to this as the vaccines weighing in efficacy and as people start to become more resistant to boosters, then maybe they'll look at these things because what's confusing to people is that, well, if this is all some sort of a plot by the pharmaceutical companies to make exorbitant amounts of money, why aren't they trying to make exorbitant amounts of money off the monoclonal antibodies, which are also expensive?

[01:18:50.030] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Tell you, it's a great argument. We'll see Molopervir, which is the Merck drug, which I think is going to be modestly effective. The registrational trials finally came in about 30% effect size, so a little less than hydroxy or Ivomectin. Ivomectin is the oral drug, probably has the best efficacy of the three. I think Moloper is going to be similar to pathyperviere we will have to see. But the point I'm making is that, listen, the monoclonal antibiotics were before the vaccines. They're emergency use authorized. They're more impressive results.

[01:19:22.370] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There's nothing to suggest that the vaccines can have anywhere near the treatment effect because so many people who take the vaccines don't get coveted.

[01:19:33.530] - Joe Rogan

So many people who take the vaccines don't get they never get coveted. Right.

[01:19:37.730] - Dr. Peter McCullough

What does the VA data show you? 96% of people who take the vaccines never get COVID. So the vaccines are given to a large number of people who are never going to come in contact with the vaccine. Remember the registration?

[01:19:49.210] - Joe Rogan

Why would you say never? They just haven't. We're relatively new in this thing, right.

[01:19:53.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, the CDC tells us 146,000,000 people have already had it, right. Have already had it now those data run in Arrears, we could be closer to 200 million people have already had it.

[01:20:04.630] - Joe Rogan

Do you think there's any reason for someone who's already had COVID to get vaccinated?

[01:20:09.060] - Dr. Peter McCullough

No. There's three studies well characterizing and three more that have weighed in and pre printed showing harm. So we've already covered the fact that recovery people don't get covered a second time. And even if you argue that you think you can find a case here and there. Boy, it's one in 7 billion people who can get covered a second time. It's rare as hens teeth if it even happens. So the point is, if you can't get it a second time, you can only be exposed to harm.

[01:20:35.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So the vaccines, like any other medical treatment, are not free of adverse effects.

[01:20:42.470] - Joe Rogan

Now, what if someone got a very mild case of code, an asymptomatic test that showed up or asymptomatic case that showed up as a PCR test, especially when they were running what was like, 40 cycles at one point in time. If that person tested positive on multiple occasions but does not show antibodies in an antibody test, do you think for that person, it would be a good idea to get vaccinated?

[01:21:08.510] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There are three ways to prove your immunity. One is you have a concrete case of covid 19. So you have the characteristic signs of symptoms. You were sick positive PCR test, preferably low cycle threshold antigen test. I got 19. I did the right thing. I was in FDA approved research. I took hydroxyclark and FDAapproved research, and I tested positive for the PCR, but also the antigen 19 is such an important diagnosis. Why don't we confirm it in HIV? We always use confirmatory test and we don't ride on one test alone.

[01:21:39.550] - Dr. Peter McCullough

But in a case where it's well documented and you're sick, you're done. You basically have permanent immunity. At that point. Over 135 studies support that. Now Paul Alexander, permanent immunity. Permanent SARS Kobe one, which is 90% similar to SARS Kobe two is forever.

[01:21:55.650] - Joe Rogan

So it's forever. If you have symptoms and you recover from those symptoms, likely you have lifetime immunity.

[01:22:02.690] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Everything we can tell. It's just like Sarscovi one. Sarscovi one is 17 years old. It's one and done supported by 135 studies. And this recent CDC, the CDC is a stakeholder in the vaccine program. They're running it with the FDA.

[01:22:16.500] - Joe Rogan

They are.

[01:22:17.140] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They are the CDC and FDA are the sponsors of the US vaccine program, and they've been telling people recovered that they should take the vaccine because they could have it again. And that's the reason why, when they were pressed to say, listen, find a case of someone who really had Kova 19 a second time. They couldn't find a case. That was the most revealing news that came out of the CDC in weeks. And it was great news for America.

[01:22:39.390] - Joe Rogan

So you think that recommendation is not based on science? It's based on the idea that they want to distribute as many vaccines as possible.

[01:22:46.770] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Oh, it's based originally out of a concern of caution. Don't forget the vaccine recommendation originally. Yeah, originally. So, listen, we're not sure if you can get it again. Take the vaccine. Right? Remember, the vaccines originally were just offered as they should. They're research. The vaccines are research. They are all investigational research. And so nobody can encourage somebody to take a vaccine. By the way, that violates the nermberg code can't do it. Research is neutral. As a doctor, I can never tell somebody. They should take the code of 19 vaccine.

[01:23:15.000] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Why? Because same reason why I can't tell them. Say, listen, you should be in my research study. You should take my research pill for diabetes. You know, if I told them that you should be in my research study, I'd be sanctioned by the IRB. I'd be called by the FDA. That's out of bounds. We never give any pressure, coercion or threat of reprisal. Participating research violates the Nuremberg code. And we certainly wouldn't do with these vaccines because we don't have all the data yet.

[01:23:38.900] - Joe Rogan

So many people are doing that.

[01:23:40.460] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, I tell you right now, they're walking a line on bioethics that they will be held accountable. You can't do that. You can't do that. No one can. No good doctor can no good doctor. Now getting back to vaccine safety. So the idea here is that we have to reconcile with vaccine safety. So the story is by January 22, we already had 182 deaths after the vaccine. January 22 for all the vaccines combined 278,000,000 shots given each year in the United States. Kids, adults, me and you.

[01:24:18.420] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I took two last year. I took one this year, 270,000,000 shots, the average number of deaths that would ever come into our central database, about 150. We've been keeping this database for 20 years. Suddenly, we are at 182. And then it was a very important recognition that many of us had say, wait a minute. The CDC and FDA didn't have any safety review. They didn't have an external critical event committee. They didn't have a data safety monitoring committee, and they didn't have a human ethics board assigned to the program.

[01:24:49.380] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It turns out we had the wrong agencies leading the program. The FDA is supposed to be the drug watch government organization. They don't lead clinical programs. The CDC is supposed to be the outbreak evaluation program. They don't lead clinical programs. So, in fact, we actually had the wrong we had, in a sense, the Fox guarding the chicken coop. In a sense, we had the wrong people leading the programs. And then we didn't have the independent safety committees. So there was nobody to stop the program in February.

[01:25:18.530] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Normally, what happens is you get five deaths after any product that's unexplained black box warning may cause death. You get to 50 deaths. I don't care if 50 million, 60 million people take the drug you get to 50 deaths, it's off the market and it gets reviewed for safety. I've been involved with this, Joe, at a national level, we never let a drug go on and be associated with 50 deaths. Afterwards. We are at 182 and there was no safety review. Remember, I told you in February, I demanded as a citizen, I demanded a report from the federal government.

[01:25:50.740] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We needed a report in a Press briefing on vaccine safe deficit. We never got it.

[01:25:54.400] - Joe Rogan

Can I pause you for something there? But isn't it rare that a group of people as large as the number of people that are getting vaccinated participates and some if you want to call an experiment or whatever it is. But this is essentially a mass inoculation. It's extremely large number of human beings. So if you're getting 182.

[01:26:13.190] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We had 182, it shouldn't be scalable. Well, we had 182 at 27 million shots, 182. 27 million shots. Remember, the standard is 150 at 278,000,000 shots.

[01:26:27.890] - Joe Rogan

Right?

[01:26:28.320] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So 150 to 278. We had 182 to 27 normal conditions.

[01:26:33.360] - Joe Rogan

But the idea was that people were dying from the pandemic and they were dying from COVID.

[01:26:38.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So here's the idea. And this is the best example. There was somebody in my circles around March, came by my house. A guy like, you know, came by biking him. His wife said, we took the vaccines. We took the vaccines. We're safe. I said, listen, I'm kind of concerned. By March, we're at 1001, 200 deaths, Joe, 1200 deaths. I said, We're at 1200 deaths. He goes, what are you talking about? We vaccinated 60 million people. 1200 does small price to pay. I continue the thought in my mind, small price to pay for the Aryan race.

[01:27:12.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That is the type of thinking that people come into people's minds, driven out of fear, driven out of mass psychosis that say, listen, I took the shot. I took a risk. If it killed somebody else, I don't care.

[01:27:27.110] - Joe Rogan

There is a thing that people that took the shot and took the risk want other people to do the same?

[01:27:31.890] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's exactly right now. Fast forward where we are today. We're at 18,000 deaths.

[01:27:38.290] - Joe Rogan

And this is just the VAERS, which is underreported.

[01:27:41.450] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This is virus vaccine University reporting system. And we know in that system, these are certified by the CDC. So the red box report comes up once a week. It's certified by the CDC. That means all these events really happened because they come in as temporary various numbers, and then they vet them. So all of these really happened, 18,000 deaths. There are 30,000 individuals who are permanently disabled after the vaccine, 250,000 emergency room visits, office visits, other healthcare encounters related to the vaccine. We have two separate analyses showing one from McLaughlin from Queens University in London, one from Jessica Rose from Canada, showing that 50% of these deaths occur within 48 hours at a shot, that 80% of the deaths occur within a week.

[01:28:30.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They're very tightly related. We now know that the spike protein after these vaccines is produced in the body for an uncontrolled quantity and an uncontrolled duration of time. And because the antibodies to the spike protein after the vaccine are so high compared to the respiratory infection, we now infer that in fact, one gets a much larger dose of the spike protein after vaccination than the respiratory illness. And in some people, they invariably can't handle the spike protein exposure to the human body who dies. Mclaughlin looked at this and found that the vast majority of death are in seniors, the very people we wanted to protect.

[01:29:12.850] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So the deaths are currently nursing home residents, people in their 80s, high 70s and on down Mcclacklin. He had 1200 deaths at the time of the publication, took them and coded the dust rigorously through the vignettes. Independent reviewers by causality actually due to the vaccine. And they ascertained that 86% of the time, there was no other cause outside the vaccine, no other cause 86%.

[01:29:40.300] - Joe Rogan

Now, how do they do that when you're dealing with someone who is that old?

[01:29:44.360] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, you have a vignette and you kind of read the vignette. There's been separately nursing home studies. There's one by Kirken, Doll and colleagues that in nursing homes, they had 100 deaths after the vaccine in a nursing home in Scandinavia. So they reviewed the deaths. They came up with a number closer to 40% were directly due to the vaccine. But what I'm saying is just like the respiratory infection takes out people who are teetering on the brink of survival. Right.

[01:30:07.650] - Joe Rogan

Right.

[01:30:08.230] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The vaccine does the same thing because the vaccine and the respiratory illness are one and the same in terms of the spike protein. We're giving the body back the spike protein in relatively high quantities and then a whole bunch of things to come out. So in virus to make sure your audience has this down 18,000 deaths, that's everything reported in. We know from a paper by Meisner and colleagues before COVID that about 85% of these reports are done by doctors, nurses or other healthcare professionals. I think the vaccine caused the problem and also the pharmaceutical manufacturers, only about 14% are done by the patient themselves.

[01:30:46.190] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We know from the data presented in the whistleblower. There's an FDA whistleblower lawsuit for deaths after the vaccine that was filed by attorney Tom Rents using CMS data. So in CMS, we also know when they got the vaccine and who they died. And it doesn't depend on self reporting, right. Because CMS center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, they know when people come off the rolls and there the underreporting number was established. So we know virus are under reported by about four to five. So of those 18,000 deaths, 9000 are domestic, 9000 are ex us, but they report through our systems.

[01:31:24.030] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So if we have 9000 Americans truly have died after the vaccine, and the under reporting number is about five. We're at 45,000 American lives lost. And that's what's in the FDA that's the lawsuit against the FDA.

[01:31:36.070] - Joe Rogan

How did they arrive at that number of under reporting? There was a Harvard study that showed under reporting being as high as 1%, meaning they only report 1% of right.

[01:31:48.460] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So the Harvard study was with the HPV or human Papilloma virus vaccine.

[01:31:53.300] - Joe Rogan

That's all it was about.

[01:31:54.550] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Yeah, the idea is, well, parents and kids are getting it. And what have you. So it's probably gross. They're probably gross under reporting there. Covid people are on edge. Right. And so the CMS data, basically, you know, when someone got the shot and you know, when they died. And so we know what proportion of the US population are CMS recipients. So by extrapolation can calculate what the real number is. So the real number at the time they filed, the number was round about 45,000 compared to what was in theirs.

[01:32:23.650] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's how we can get to the under reporting relationship of four to five. And we think that's a fair number, four to five is probably a fair number.

[01:32:31.080] - Joe Rogan

Now, what is the difference between the way the spike protein interacts with the body via infection from respiratory illness versus an injection from the vaccine?

[01:32:41.910] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, we learned July 29. Bruce Patterson, whose terrific molecular biologist is between Northwestern and Stanford, showed for the first time with a respiratory infection. The s one segment of the spike protein is recoverable in human monocytes for up to 15 months after infection. So you had the infection, Joe, you got 15 months to clear that stuff out. Now, maybe sooner and hopefully lower exposure. You got monoclonal antibodies and other drugs. I got drugs. Hopefully we had less exposure to it. Our bodies can be free of the spike protein.

[01:33:14.700] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The S one segments, the outer segment. That's the one that actually docks with the as two receptor, the S two segments, the one closer to the ball of the virus. Now, I interviewed Bruce Patterson for the McCullough report on America loud talk radio. The McCullough report. And what Bruce told me and he had the data is that in the vaccinated individuals, as long as he can see after vaccination, they have measurable spike protein, S one and S, two segments within the monocytes. We knew from a paper by Ogata and colleagues from Harvard showed that the free floating spike protein was in the plasma for, on average, two weeks after the vaccines, messenger and vaccines.

[01:33:52.370] - Dr. Peter McCullough

But one person in the study, it was measurable in plasma for 29 days. So that spike protein EMA in the plasma. The spike protein damages cells. It goes damages cells in the heart, the brain damages blood vessels, causes blood clotting. We know the spike protein is dangerous. A paper by Ovolo shows it damages heart muscle cells pericytes. The FDA has warnings on the vaccines for myocarditis or heart damage. So this is biologically cohesive that the vaccines could damage the human body and cause death. So the biological possibility is there.

[01:34:29.410] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We know that it's a strong signal. So we have that we know that it's internally consistent in the VAE system, meaning there are other non fatal events like heart attacks, blood clots, myocarditis. And now it's externally consistent. The same pattern is seen in the yellow card system in the UK through the MHRA. And it's also seen in the Eugene system in Europe. So what I've laid out for you is we've fulfilled what's called the Bradford Hill criteria for causality. That means it's it I'm an epidemiologist by training.

[01:34:58.760] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This is my line of work. I'm telling you, for a large number of individuals, the vaccine has caused death and these vaccine induced organ injury syndromes.

[01:35:11.710] - Joe Rogan

Why is it that it doesn't affect most people this way? If you look at the vast majority of people that have been vaccinated, then that's one of the things that we have to go on in this country, is it literally it's over 200 million people, I believe, have been vaccinated, that's an enormous amount of human beings, most of them are fine. Is that an accurate statement again.

[01:35:34.340] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Just like the respiratory infection we've had 146,000,000 people have had the respiratory infection, less than 1% died.

[01:35:41.600] - Joe Rogan

Right. But the ones that have gotten the injection and died or got myocarditis versus the ones who got the injection and nothing happened at all. What's the difference? What happens again?

[01:35:54.450] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Just like the respiratory infection. Remember, you and I had the respiratory infection. We're perfectly fine. We're sitting here talking. 99% of people who got the respiratory infection are fine. 99% of people who got the vaccine are fine. So we're 200 million people got the vaccines and we have about 1 million people injured. So they're identically. The same. It's the same concept.

[01:36:13.950] - Joe Rogan

So what do you think is causing the damage in the 1%.

[01:36:18.940] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Just like with the respiratory infection. It's all about susceptibility. Remember, in the respiratory infection, it's the elderly, those with medical problems, those with comorbidities. It's the same thing. So with the vaccine, it's the elderly, it's with comorbidities, for instance, blood clotting, those who have inherited proclivity to blood clotting are going to be the ones who are likely to form the fatal blood clots that happen with the vaccine. Invariably, there's going to be some determinants of who develops the myocarditis. We have a lead on this. By the way, the myocarditis is not equal in terms of gender.

[01:36:53.230] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It's running about 80% boys and 20% girls. So it must be some relationship.

[01:36:58.060] - Joe Rogan

Well, I'm glad you said boys and not men, because that's what I'm asking you about. These are not people that have a susceptibility to a disease. They don't have a preexisting condition. They're young people and they're getting myocarditis. So what is causing that?

[01:37:16.970] - Dr. Peter McCullough

In a paper from Finland, an important paper done before COVID-19, where they collected all the myocarditis cases in Finland before covid 19 they established kind of who got it. And what was the rate. And in that paper, I believe the first author is to show people what it showed was that there is an age gradient that occurs as one goes from age 01234, five very little. And then once approaches puberty, it goes up after age twelve. It really goes up twelve to 17 or 18. And it runs about 80% boys or 90% boys.

[01:37:59.330] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And importantly, the number per million. You could actually calculate the number per million per year came out to four cases per million per year. So if you figure that we have let's make it easy math. Let's say we have 70 million kids in the United States and we do 70 X four. That would be 280 kids. Of myocarditis some people say add on teenagers or other people. We could get to 708 hundred cases of myocarditis per year. Do you know we're in affairs right now, Joe?

[01:38:32.520] - Dr. Peter McCullough

13,000 certified cases of myocarditis parocardias. I know because I've reported some. So some kids have come to my clinic. They've had heart inflammation. We know in a paper by Tracy Hove from UC Davis, thousands of cases of Marcarditis from Bears and be safe. 86% of these kids have to be hospitalized. They're sick, they have chest pain. They have St segment elevation on the EKG sky height opponents. The blood test for heart injury is about ten to 100 fold that of a man having a heart attack.

[01:39:01.570] - Dr. Peter McCullough

These are kids having significant heart damage. About a quarter have incipient heart failure, as seen by Echo. I've seen them and follow up in my clinic. We have to use heart failure drugs and very importantly, to treat myocarditis no physical activity. Physical activity can trigger sudden cardiac death. So no physical activity for sure. I've done this in my practice. The point of making, Joe is the CDC calls me and says, Dr. Mccullough, we want to review this case with you and we go over it. And we agree.

[01:39:28.760] - Dr. Peter McCullough

After we go over the labs and what have you 13,000 certified cases of microditis Parcarditis. That number should be no more than 600 on a background rate.

[01:39:38.990] - Joe Rogan

So no physical activity. So when these people do have this heart inflammation and then they have physical activity, that's what's causing like. Do you believe there's been a rash of cases of soccer players in particular? I'm sure you're probably aware of this that have collapsed and or died, and it's much higher than normal. Do you think.

[01:40:02.810] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That this is what's attributable to that there is a montage of deaths on the soccer field, rugby field, particularly in Europe, overseas. It's interesting, not in the United States but overseas. That's concerning. Now each case is its own case. Did they take a vaccine? When did they take a vaccine? Could they have subclinical? Could they have taken a vaccine in the last six months? Could they have some subclinical symptoms? It's hard when you're a young athlete and you're sore all over the chest. Soreness may not be that demonstrable and vigorous physical activity, particularly that start stop, especially soccer, particularly would make me think.

[01:40:42.030] - Dr. Peter McCullough

But if that's the case with Myocarditis, wouldn't we be seeing the NBA and NFL and elsewhere? It raises the suspicion the Myocarditis there are strict warnings against us. Remember, FDA has on Moderna and Pfizer warnings on myocarditis. Jessica Rose and I published in Current Problems of Cardiology paper from theirs and the upper tail of the Myocarditis for men goes all the way up to age 50. So I'm telling you, I have somebody in my practice who is well above the teenage years who has myocarditis we're going to see more and more because it's now known.

[01:41:18.210] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And the FDA agrees that the vaccines, in fact, do go to the heart. They get distributed all in the body. And in fact, the Koreans we had the first fail case in my career I'm aware of reported from Washington University in St. Louis in America who took the vaccine. And now the Koreans have reported one patient of a young lady got put on ECMO. She survived. She got ten minutes of CPR and got put on exochorial membrane oxygenation. She survived. But sadly, another Korean man died and did an autopsy.

[01:41:46.410] - Dr. Peter McCullough

His heart was loaded with inflammation. The heart swells gets to be about double the size in a matter of just a few days after taking the vaccine with Myocarditis. It's explosive after shot number two.

[01:41:57.820] - Joe Rogan

So two questions in regards to what you just said. One, soccer, I think, is probably one of the most cardio intensive sports because it's an enormous field and they are constantly running. They have these long sprints. I don't think it's comparable in the same sense as the NBA. I think the NBA is a much smaller playing field, and I just don't think it's obviously you have to be in great shape, but I don't think it's as cardio intensive the vaccine causing this. Why would it be that?

[01:42:32.060] - Joe Rogan

Are they getting different vaccines in Europe where these soccer players are dropping? And if that's the case, are some vaccines, do they lead people to be more susceptible to myocarditis? And then the other question is, does myocarditis reverse itself like if you have mile carditis, is that automatically going to take years off your life even if you recover from it because you refer to it as a nonfatal adverse event? If that's a nonfatal adverse event, does one eventually get back to normal with myocarditis myocarditis again.

[01:43:16.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

If we're at 400 to 800 cases in the United States per year and over the course of my career, I've seen one or two cases spontaneous macros before Kovan.

[01:43:28.650] - Joe Rogan

One or two, one or two.

[01:43:30.110] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's in my whole career because it's rare.

[01:43:31.740] - Joe Rogan

Obviously, what would that be from? What would be the cause of it?

[01:43:35.330] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The most fatal type is called giant cell. Myocarditis. It literally is idiopathic comes out of nowhere. We don't know what causes it. There are other forms adenoviruses parvoviruses that can cause myocarditis, and these are typically treated just supportively. There was a randomized trial and actually Dallas, Texas, played a big role, and it's called the myocarditis treatment trial M-I-T-T. And that did biopsies and show routine cardiac biopsies were not useful outside of trying to diagnose giant cell myocarditis. And then lastly, that routine cortical steroids weren't useful. Having said that, when we try to treat patients, we end up using culture seen, sometimes some other drugs.

[01:44:19.230] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I want to get the right citations down. So the paper from Finland was by a roller and colleagues that came with the estimate of four cases per million per year as a baseline. So that means in the United States 400 800 cases a year. We've already gotten to over 13,000 cases in the United States and we've seen cases of Iocarditis, by the way, reported the US military been reported from Israel, France and elsewhere. The paper that showed it and directly invades the heart, the spike protein that was by a volleyo and colleagues in the Perry sites.

[01:44:50.670] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And very importantly, the prognosis is what you're asking about. The prognosis paper was published by Karsten Chopi and that was in circulation research 2019. And what it showed is it showed that 13% of myocarditis before COVID ends up with progressive heart failure and worsening. My fear is some of these kids who develop myocarditis will be in a 13% category where they have progressive left and cigarette dysfunction and heart failure.

[01:45:19.270] - Joe Rogan

So the mile cards they're experiencing right now is damaged heart tissue and that damaged heart tissue is not going to heal and that in fact, might get worse.

[01:45:31.530] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The estimates are. And again, I'm applying data from other forms of myocarditis before COVID looks like a pretty severe form of it. To be honest with you, because it's putting 86% of the kids in the hospital there's myocarditis that we actually don't hospitalize. We can treat myocarditis or myophericarditis in the office, but these kids are sick enough to be hospitalized. I'm inferring that it's severe forms of it. This estimate from this paper would be 13% risk of in these kids of developing heart failure or needing things like ICDS heart failure, oral drugs later on cardiac transplant or cardiac death.

[01:46:09.530] - Joe Rogan

When you say cardiac transplant, you're talking about heart transplant. Yeah. We reviewed the horrible case of a 19 year old girl who was vaccinated, wound up having a heart attack, heart failure, heart transplant. And then because of the amino compromising drugs that they put her on to accept the transplant. She got pneumonia and died 19.

[01:46:34.530] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I said on national TV in June, when the FDA just had 200 cases. They reviewed CDC said two things I think that were irresponsible. I'll call them out on it because I can and that is they said it's rare. And they said it's mild and I was on national TV saying, Listen, in safety research, we never say the word rare. We say tip of the iceberg. This is probably just the beginning of what we're going to see. And it's not mild because even in June, 90% were hospitalized.

[01:47:04.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And sure enough, now we have 13,000 cases, 86% hospitalized. And, you know, the Hogan analysis shows that a young boy is more likely to be hospitalized with myocarditis than ever be hospitalized with COVID-19 or respiratory illness.

[01:47:18.090] - Joe Rogan

Yeah. We showed that the Sanjay Gupta and he was incredulous. When you're looking at this chart in front of you, what percentage of the people recover fully from myocarditis pre pandemic pre COVID-19.

[01:47:34.530] - Dr. Peter McCullough

In this paper by Joshua, this is like a medical grand rounds on Joe Rogan. I love it, Joe. So in this figure, one from the Joshua paper, 27% never deviated from normal heart function. So they were good all the way through. They were clinically hemicarditis, 26% were categorized as recovered fully, 34% improved, but never got back up to completely normal. And then 13% were impaired. I mean, the heart took a hit and they never recovered.

[01:48:06.760] - Joe Rogan

There's a gentleman who is the world's longestatic breath hold. Is that what he holds? He's done that ten minute guy. You know what I'm talking about? We talked about him on the podcast before he got myocarditis from the vaccine, and it severely limited his ability to do that. He has extreme cardiovascular function, right? Because this is a guy who can hold his breath for ten minutes. And he says that it's caused somewhere. I believe he said it's been eight months plus since having myocarditis and still he's somewhere around 30% reduction of his abilities.

[01:48:50.730] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, getting back to your question of listen, 200 million people took the vaccine. Why are so many people fine, right. I think my answer to that honestly, Joe, is that the body is a miraculous creation and the body can fight off all kinds of things. So you put some foreign messenger RNA in there and with synthetic analytic caps, Tony Carrigopolis and I have published on this. By the way, the messenger RNA prize stays in the body for a few months. The spike protein Patterson is showing us last in the body at least 15 months.

[01:49:18.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There's a paper by Banjo and colleagues showing in the vaccinated that you have not only the s one segment, but you have the s two segments. You actually get both segments in the vaccinator persisting in the body for a long time, almost certainly beyond six months. That if someone took a shot, one and shot two in January and February and nothing has happened, I'm following my patients carefully. 70% of people in my practice took the vaccine again. Good doctors don't encourage, don't discourage. It was purely elective because they're in vaccine research.

[01:49:46.320] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Fine. No harm, no foul. But if we start vaccinating every six months, I think the spike protein never gets out of the body, it accumulates. Progressive accumulation of the spike protein is very worrisome for these progressive organ injury syndromes.

[01:50:01.840] - Joe Rogan

So if we're doing it every six months, the spike protein will never really truly have a chance to get out of the body. In these cases that you're talking about, where it's still in the body for 15 months.

[01:50:11.630] - Dr. Peter McCullough

15 months is on the long side. Let's be charitable and say it lasts in the body a year. That's what the Banzille paper. And Bruce Patterson, in his paper and in his interview on my podcast, America Loud Talk Radio McCullough report. Based on this leading work, I'm telling you, as a doctor, I think the spike protein is in the human body after vaccination at least a year. And so if you have a year to clear it out and you clear it out and nothing's happened, no harm, no foul.

[01:50:39.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The vast majority of people in my practice did fine with the vaccines. Now I don't know if they ever came in contact with COVID or not. They did fine. It is my practice experience that when they do get coveted, that it's a milder form, it's easier to treat. Do I still get monoclonal antibody? Sure. Do they get Ibmakin? Yes. And predison and all the other drugs and a cowgillin? Sure. Sadly, can vaccinated patients die of COVID-19? Sure. The CDC has told us the CDC in mid October had 41,000 full vaccine failure cases recorded by departments of Public Health.

[01:51:13.440] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This is just spontaneous reporting. It's not the University of cases, and about a quarter of those were deaths. So the CDC has large numbers of people who have been fully vaccinated who died. It can happen. But it's our experience and I shared with you the data. The vaccines do do something. They provide a modest protection against hospitalization and death. What we're getting to Joe is based on the safety profile we've described and based on the efficacy, is it compelling enough to actually mandate it in people, or is it something that ought to be a free choice?

[01:51:44.010] - Joe Rogan

And if it is a free choice and you do develop myocarditis so let's say you have an adverse event when you take the vaccine. What can be done to treat these people?

[01:51:55.310] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Treatment of my carditis would be three to six months of no physical activity.

[01:51:59.130] - Joe Rogan

We do six months, no physical activity at all.

[01:52:01.610] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Right.

[01:52:02.300] - Joe Rogan

No rigorous walks, nothing outside of daily activities.

[01:52:07.430] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Going to class, going home, this and that. But we don't want any running, weightlifting, soccer, nothing like that because the worry we trigger cardiac death. And then when the heart pumping function is reduced, we see this by echocardiography MRI. We use what's called evidencebased beta blockers, carvadalobuspolo, long acting metropolis. And then we use what's called Ras inhibitors as ace inhibitors and angiotensin receptor blockers, or a new drug called intrusto. And that's what I use in myocardios patients who have impaired pumping function because we're trying to prevent slippage and even worsened heart failure.

[01:52:41.510] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And then for the plural pericardial symptoms, we use a drug called colchicine, and culturally is a drug we actually use in the treatment of Covit 19 acute illness. Remember, the acute illness is similar to the vaccine illnesses. They have so many similar because it's the same spike protein we use coticine in order to try to relieve some of the pericardial symptoms. And our randomized trial suggesting that would help try to extinguish the inflammation in the heart.

[01:53:07.060] - Joe Rogan

Is there anything that someone can take? Let's say, if your job mandates that you get vaccinated, is there anything that someone can take that could potentially mitigate the negative effects of the spike protein?

[01:53:18.830] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Boy, that's kind of getting into this idea of moral hazard and social contract. So people ask me all the time, Doc, I'm going to lose my job, my job. I'm losing my job. If I don't take the vaccine and I usually ask them, you know what? I ask them, what's the social contract? What do you get if you take the vaccine? What do you get? Are you getting 20 years of employment? Ten, five a year?

[01:53:44.810] - Joe Rogan

Are you even getting a guaranteed employment?

[01:53:46.830] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Are you getting six months? Are you getting three months? They say, I don't know. Nobody told me the social contract. I said, Why don't you figure out the social contract before you take a spin with this vaccine? And people are trying to say, Listen, can I have my cake and eat it, too? Can I take the vaccine and keep my job for some undeclared social contract and take some antidote? Well, there are things that have been suggested on the website, Dr. Tess Lowry from the United Kingdom, who is one of the leaders in early treatment of COVID-19.

[01:54:18.180] - Dr. Peter McCullough

She's one of the ones who did the great analysis on I, for Mechan, has started a program, and I think it's called World for Health. Something along these lines. You'll find it on the Internet. It's got a yellow and pink kind of montage color. And in there there are some published approaches on Web, not peer reviewed. Of course, there's no randomized trials of things one could do to reduce the inflammation, the thrombogenesis and some of the organ injury syndromes. I'm leery of that approach because that's basically creating this moral hazard, meaning that it's okay to take the vaccine.

[01:54:56.830] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And you can just take this antidote to prevent complications. And so this moral hazard, by the way, came up in a radio interview I had with Hugh Hewitt. And I have to tell you, I think it's one of the few difficult interviews I had. And Hugh Hewitt came on. And when he invited me on Joe, he said, I'm bringing on Dr. Mccullough, and I want to say, before he gets on, he let us know. He let me know. He's an attorney. And he said, I'm pro vaccine.

[01:55:22.130] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I think everybody should take the vaccine. And I think how we end the pandemic with it. But let me bring on this doctor. And then he asked me a question. He said, Dr. Mccullough, he said, if somebody listens to you and they don't get COVID-19 and they don't take the vaccine and they get coveted 19 and they die. That's on you because they listen to you and they didn't take the vaccine. I said, Hugh, I said, if they listen to you and they take the vaccine, they've been pressured into vaccine research.

[01:55:55.460] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And if they take the vaccine and they're one of the thousands of people who drop dead within a couple of days of the vaccine. I said, that's on you. I said, who's got the bigger moral hazard here? The bottom line is you can Dodge COVID forever. There's people who have never gotten COVID. They're dodging COVID. Fine. In fact, you cannot take the vaccine and get treatment for COVID and survive it. I did. I got COVID before the vaccines. For me. It's over with. You got code after the vaccines, you got treatment, you got through it.

[01:56:23.580] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So did Aaron Rogers. So did so many of us. The bottom line is there's no moral hazard for deferring on the vaccines because the vaccines are research and they're elective and the vaccines are only to protect the individual. There's no data suggesting the vaccines protect others. This is very important. There are now studies. There is a recent study in the Journal Lancet that has actually asked the question, do the vaccines actually protect others from getting COVID-19? Because that is really what's going on. There are people in my circles that have said, Listen, take the vaccine, protect other people.

[01:57:00.640] - Dr. Peter McCullough

You don't do it for yourself. You do it for somebody else.

[01:57:03.470] - Joe Rogan

That was a later narrative, though, right?

[01:57:06.370] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I know, but we need later research to apply to the later narrative. Haven't you heard follow the science?

[01:57:12.750] - Joe Rogan

Yeah.

[01:57:13.340] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Haven't you even heard that someone claims that they are science?

[01:57:16.680] - Joe Rogan

Yes, I have.

[01:57:18.390] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Now science is a process and you're laughing. You and I are pretty humble here. But let me tell you, let's follow the science. So this paper is from Anika Cinga Yagamam, and this is published from the ATACCC Study Investigator Group in the Lancet. And this paper just landed in the Lancet. Oh, I can't believe you got it. That's terrific. And you know what the storyline here is? 39% of this very careful case contact studies and it's up on Joe. It's on my call. It here on my slides.

[01:57:56.030] - Dr. Peter McCullough

39% of transmission occurred from fully vaccinated to fully vaccinated individuals.

[01:58:05.070] - Joe Rogan

Pretty large number.

[01:58:06.040] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Yeah. So the point is, we now have abundant evidence. We had the Barnstable County outbreak in Massachusetts that clearly showed. And the CDC told us Barnestable County. They told us congregate settings. People got code at 19. It was Delta. Look at two thirds are fully vaccinated. We had the Naval cruise ship 3700 individuals fully vaccinated. They passed Delta to each other. Then we had these papers here. We have one from Haven, CDC, Covenant Network. We have Filmar from the VA. This is data shading into June. This is before Delta really kicked up.

[01:58:42.230] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We had 23% of Americans in the hospital who are vaccinated, but they had covered 19. Remember in June, remember that talking point that was issued? 99% of people in the hospital were unvaccinated. Yeah, that's propaganda. That's false information put out by those in a position of authority. There was one time and I was on Laura Ingram, and they had a montage of everybody saying 99% unvaccinated. Even the governor of Florida said that the President of the United States said that that was a false talking point that was issued, and everybody said it, I think, designed to encourage people to get vaccinated.

[01:59:20.790] - Joe Rogan

Well, there's certainly been a lot of encouragement to get vaccinated. Something someone told me, I want to verify with you. If you were a healthy person and you took monoclonal antibodies, would that offer you protection for a period of time from Kova?

[01:59:35.890] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, there's been a randomized trial of case contacts. This is important. So running a mass trial, I believe using the regenerate product. And so what they did is they took seniors, like, say, several seniors living together. One of them gets covered 19 and the others are exposed and they're high risk. They took the exposed ones and they randomized them to getting subcutaneous injections of the monoclonal antibody versus placebo. And those who got the monoclonal antibodies in the setting of seniors close contact prevented the development of COVID-19.

[02:00:09.590] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Now, when you got yours, did you get IV or do you get IV? Yeah. So what happens is doctors have taken those findings and said, Listen, it's parental administration. We're going to give a subcute injection. It's actually four injections that's needed to give it. But I want the listeners to understand the monoclonal antibodies are safe, effective proven. They clearly reduce symptoms. They reduce hospitalization and death. And they are a product of operation Warp speed. So not everything that happened with Pandemic response was bad. This was a great development.

[02:00:41.010] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Think about an antiviral monoclonal antibody. What a wonderful advance. We've never had it before.

[02:00:46.500] - Joe Rogan

So there's an unlimited supply or a very large supply, more than adequate for the entire population for Monte climate antibodies. So what is stopping the distribution of them? Because not only have they made it difficult to get in Texas, they actually put these parameters on who gets it and who doesn't. And you have to be in a high risk ethnicity to get it. A friend of mine went, he had COVID, and he is a healthy Caucasian male in his 30s, and they told him you are not qualified to receive the monoclonal antibodies.

[02:01:25.770] - Joe Rogan

And the lady who was working there said, if you were another ethnicity, like, if you were Hispanic or black, then we would qualify you and she was like, look, this is not my idea. This is I just have to follow the rules. Why would anybody establish rules like that? Like, what is that?

[02:01:45.240] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And they're so arbitrary from center to center. The arbitrariness of the rules. I've sent younger patients who have severe symptoms and in trouble for monoclonal antibodies. They've been turned down. I've had other people go for monoclonal antibodies themselves and get them find no difficulty. Most of the time, I have to say, I've had a great experience. People got the monoclinous. But I have to tell you, an anecdote. Somebody close in my religious circles developed Koba 19, and he developed some severe respiratory symptoms. And I had gotten wind of vaccine discrimination.

[02:02:17.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Joe, I had gotten wind of this and this person was not vaccinated. I said, We're going to go for monoclonal antibody infusion it's late on a Saturday night. He goes for the monoclonal antibody infusion and the doctor at the center in Dallas lures over him, arms folded and says, Have you been vaccinated? And this person looks up at him. He says, I refuse to answer that question. And the doctor looked at him. He said, okay, and the person who came and said, Listen, I just want a monoclonal antibody infusion go home.

[02:02:47.980] - Dr. Peter McCullough

He gets the monoclonal antibody infusion, and on the way out the door, he goes, hey, Doc, he goes, what if I would have answered that question if I told you I was vaccinated? He goes, oh, I would have given you Ram deserve if he was vaccinated. Right. So the example is that's an example of perverse vaccine discrimination. So he would have been discriminated against getting a high quality therapy and getting a lower quality therapy. It doesn't make any sense.

[02:03:13.880] - Joe Rogan

Is that just a poor doctor or just a bad doctor?

[02:03:16.050] - Dr. Peter McCullough

No, it goes to show you the arbitrariness and the confusion that exists out there that monoclonal antibodies are safe and effective. They work in vaccinated or unvaccinated. There was a previous thinking that if you are vaccinated, you should have already have antibodies to the virus. So therefore, we're going to use Rum deserve against the polymerase inhibitor. But it's just faulty thinking because vaccine breakthrough cases, the virus is basically blown past the vaccine antibodies. And why not give it a shot? Regenerons two different antibodies. Gsk is an antibody against the glycoprotein.

[02:03:46.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Why not use a more intelligent therapy? I can tell you. I've looked at all the data carefully hands down the monoclonal antibodies blow away rim de Vere. Another thing that bothers me is, do you know that when patients get admitted to the hospital? No monoclonal antibodies. Once they crossed that line and I had a sad case in Fort Worth, it broke my heart. 38 year old man, he was really sick. His wife is really sick. We scramble, we get medications, his wife gets the monoclonal antibodies and goes home.

[02:04:13.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Joe with other drugs. Okay. And she survives. They got five kids. He's 38 years old. He's obese. He doesn't get the monoclonal antibodies to say, you know what? You're too sick. We're going to admit you he never gets the monoclona antibodies, Joe. And he dies in the hospital.

[02:04:29.930] - Joe Rogan

They just gave him the monoclonal antibiotics in the hospital or give him an Er.

[02:04:34.340] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This was a matter of.

[02:04:35.880] - Joe Rogan

Why is it so arbitrary that once you go into the hospital, they won't give you the monoclonal antibodies?

[02:04:40.350] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It doesn't make any sense. The emergency use authorization gives some general guidelines in an FAQ. The FAQ gives information like says, use as an inpatient and outpatient. But it's not a law. I mean, if I can use backdrop as an outpatient, I can use background as an inpatient. If I want to use regenerate as an outpatient, doctors have authority over the FAQ. People are reading this FAQ like some type of law, and as soon as they cross the line in the hospital, they can't get this life saving therapy.

[02:05:09.370] - Joe Rogan

So the doctor has the ability once a person is hospitalized to still administer Monica or anybody. And they choose not to because of this bizarre the way this is written and the same reason why they choose not to use Ivomectin in the hospital. The same reason why they choose not at least I verimectin is controversial, and I'm not letting anybody off the hook, but at least it's controversial. There's a lot of people that don't think it's actually effective. No one thinks that monoclonal antibodies are not effective, no one that I've heard of.

[02:05:38.640] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'd agree with that. I think there are just some unproven concerns. One concern is when the oxygen saturation is lower. If we give them on a clinical antibody, we could create some perfusion changes in their lungs and further worsen hypoxemia that's never been shown. There have been other thoughts that if someone gets admitted to the hospital, they're too late for monoclonal antibody. So remember, the principle with therapy is, Joe, the later we start something, the less efficacy it is. So if you want to show failure of ironic and hydroxychoric and monoclonal antibiotics apply, it very late.

[02:06:10.950] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So this idea that, well, they're outpatients now. I'm within the FAQ and they're likely to benefit. Fine. My point is, come on, this is a fatal condition. Just because we're on the edge of hospitalization, why don't we give it in the Er and declare them out patients and then still admit them? I would be okay with that. I've had another case I advised on where? Desperate case. A woman who was in a car accident weeks earlier had rib fractures, impaired pulmonary function gets serious covered. We do everything we can as an outpatient, Joe.

[02:06:42.810] - Dr. Peter McCullough

All the drugs, Ivomectin, we were using every vitamin you name it, what you call the kitchen sink. That's what we are doing. Trying to save her life. Woman in her fifties get so hypoxymic and sick, her husband's sick. We toss in the towel. Call nine. One one, she goes to the hospital. I said, get monoclone antibiotics in the Er. Oh, they're going to admit her. They're not going to do it. Fortunately, we got this Tampa General Hospital. The person listening to this will know who they are.

[02:07:04.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And they got to the other side of the admission. And I was relentless. And I said, Get in a monoclonal antibody trial. Thank the Lord. They got into the estrazica monoclonal antibody trial. We don't know if they got placebo monoclonals. But she survived no intubation. And it was like, wow, it was that close. This is a little window of my life for the last two years. Do you know there's 500 doctors trying to treat the entire country like this? Once I turn my phone on from this interview, Joe, I am going to be loaded with cases that I'll advise on to try to help on all the way home.

[02:07:36.190] - Joe Rogan

Why is it so few doctors?

[02:07:39.090] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There is a grip of fear over the doctors. Originally, I think they were personally fearful of taking care of patients. And they wanted someone to tell them what to do. Remember, doctors are not like Navy Seals. Doctors are not like police officers or firemen or World Wrestling Champions. Doctors are kind of nerds. There's no check box that says, I'm courageous. I'm willing to take some risks. They don't check those boxes. And I think there was a small number of doctors. I guess I'm one of them that I said, you know what?

[02:08:10.540] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm going to take some risks. I can do this. I can put drugs. Pure Corey. You talk to him. Pure Corey is another guy. He didn't hesitate. I didn't hesitate. Jose Veron down in Houston. He runs a whole hospital. He doesn't hesitate. There's 500 of doctors out there that now are basically held out as heroes. You read Bobby Kennedy's book, we look like We're American heroes. It's only because we're treating patients as we should.

[02:08:33.870] - Joe Rogan

It's just hard to imagine being a person denying treatment to someone that, you know, would be effective because you're looking at some arbitrary rules that are written down that once they are admitted to the hospital, you can't give them monoclonal antibodies and then to cast this judgment on them, why weren't you vaccinated? We're not going to treat you. But this is what's happening to a lot of patients.

[02:08:55.630] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I had a conversation one time with a doctor, and he goes, It was some conversation about treating patients early. He goes, Well, there's not enough evidence. There's not enough evidence. We need to wait for large, randomized trials. Do you know, in the US Senate testimony, the minority witness multiple times told us, he goes, Nope, these doctors are treating with these drugs. There's not enough evidence. There's not enough evidence. And then I think Ron John asked him. He goes, Well, what do you think the best treatment is?

[02:09:22.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, they should follow the guidelines and the guidelines say, stay at home and wait until you really can't breathe anymore. And then you come to the hospital. Then you start treatment. And then I made a comment. I said, I want that to be written into the records of Senate testimony that that is a reckless recommendation for America. That it is reckless to recommend nothing in the setting of a fatal illness. Every serious fatal infection must be treated early. It's only going to get worse we actually have for other infections.

[02:09:53.740] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We have time to the initial therapy as a benchmark of quality of care. Why would we let this virus rip the body for 14 days or longer? Can you imagine if you were 75 years old, you had heart and lung disease and you were sitting in your apartment, your kids couldn't come over and look after you. Nobody could look after you. And every day you're stewing, getting worse and worse and worse and worse until finally you're in isolation. Finally, at two weeks, you can't breathe anymore.

[02:10:21.780] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And you toss in the towel. You call 911, you call your daughter, you call your son, you contaminate the virus everywhere, and then you get put in the hospital. You get slammed in the isolation, you get put on rim deserve. You get six milligrams of Decadron, and then to make things absolutely the worst, you never see your loved ones again. And you die. That's what's happened to 800,000 Americans.

[02:10:42.270] - Joe Rogan

And so this is why you believe that at least 50% of those people, those deaths could have been prevented.

[02:10:48.670] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That was in November of 2020. Under sworn testimony, that number is Vaszily 85%. Now, maybe it's 90%. Now, if we got what you got, if you got the sequence, multi drug treatment, monoclonal antibiotic, you called it the kitchen sink. So do I. Bottom line is, it may be refined over time. The Merc and Pfizer drug will bring them in. If other drugs come along, we'll refine it. Listen, it's a process. I'm not saying any one of these drugs is a miracle drug. None of them are necessary nor sufficient to save a life.

[02:11:16.520] - Dr. Peter McCullough

But the point is, what drives hospitalization is uncontrollable symptoms. It's uncontrollable anxiety. Do you know an anxiety drug itself actually cuts off the risk of hospitalization? And that drug is fluvoxamine. Fluvoxamine takes an edge off the dismay. It may have some. It's an S Andri and it's an older one, but it takes an edge off. They may have some other unique effects. I give credit to those who have advanced it credit to Steve Kirsch, who funded the COVID-19 Early Treatment Program. And he's now funding the vaccine injury program.

[02:11:51.480] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Steve Kirk, by the way, has a great offer out there for your listeners. I don't know if you know about this.

[02:11:55.910] - Joe Rogan

No.

[02:11:56.600] - Dr. Peter McCullough

His offer is anybody from any major academic medical center or any government agency who will come to the table and have a fair discussion on vaccine safety and efficacy. He'll pay them $2 million. Anybody, anybody.

[02:12:13.120] - Joe Rogan

You mean anybody who's, like, a high level medical researcher or anybody who can make the case.

[02:12:22.910] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Even try to make the case, that the vaccines are safe and effective.

[02:12:26.850] - Joe Rogan

And if they don't make the case, they still get the money.

[02:12:30.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Yeah, really?

[02:12:31.130] - Joe Rogan

That seems like an easy $2 million. No one's come there and get your ass kicked for $2 million.

[02:12:36.570] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Joe, no one's come forward. Really? No one's come forward.

[02:12:39.560] - Joe Rogan

No, I know about it.

[02:12:41.020] - Dr. Peter McCullough

When I people know about it. He's made a lot of calls and emails. And the point is, people are under a trance with these vaccines. They actually know they're not safe and effective. They know it. They know when they took the vaccines, they took a risk. Now that safety. You know, the vaccine centers cleared out in mid April. I drive past one every day to work and there used to be police officers. They were waving people and there was cones. I was slowed down to try to get to the hospital because of vaccine traffic.

[02:13:12.010] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And then it started thin out and thin out and thin out. We got to mid April. There was nobody there. We got to May and June there's mothballs the dust on the cones. They put barriers up. The vaccine centers have been closed for months. When the word got out that people were dying after the vaccine, people stopped taking it. And there was an Internet survey unofficial on Twitter, I think. But it asks the question, do you know somebody who's died after the vaccine or somebody in your circles?

[02:13:40.380] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Answer 12%. And I'm telling you, 12% and people talk. You can suppress it all you want to. You know, there's the Trusted News Initiative. You can bring that up. Why don't you bring the Trusted News Initiative? The Trusted News Initiative was rolled out with the vaccines on December 10. It was rolled out, the Trusted News Initiative announced by the British Broadcasting Company. With all the other media here it is all the partners that was all the major media and social media. Joe will work together to ensure legitimate concerns about vaccinations are heard whilst harmful disinformation missed are stopped in their tracks.

[02:14:18.820] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Translation suppression on anything that would promote vaccine hesitancy and what would promote vaccine? Hesitancy early treatment. The hope of early treatment, staying out of the hospital. If people knew they had an option, they could defer on the vaccine. And if they got covered, good treatment that would lead to vaccine hesitancy. How about vaccine safety? How about giving a Press briefing on deaths after the vaccine? Are they happening with Moderna Pfizer. J. And J. Do we know what's the profile of someone who dies after the vaccine?

[02:14:50.190] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We have 19,000 cases. They could tell us, Joe, the point I'm making is if they won't be clean on vaccine safety data, we can never get to risk mitigation. We can't get a safer program unless they are transparent on vaccine safety.

[02:15:05.670] - Joe Rogan

This is where the authoritarian aspect of this gets very complicated, right? Because they've assumed the government has assumed the role of the parent. Just listen to us. We're going to tell you what to do and some much worse than others. The woman in New Zealand's horrific. There's been a bunch of them that are horrific when you hear them talk. And they're so incredibly condescending. And they feel like they have this ultimate power to just force people into this binary solution and the ability also to suppress information, which may, in fact, be accurate, that the vaccines do carry a risk.

[02:15:44.810] - Joe Rogan

What you said today, none of this is wild conspiracy theory. You're obviously incredibly well educated and you're more than qualified to distribute this information. But if this was on YouTube, this would get taken down. We're very fortunate that Spotify doesn't operate like that and that this can be received by millions of people all over the world. But there's not a lot of avenues for this now. There's very few, in fact, not randomly. They're purposely targeting experts and doctors that have opinions that differ from the approved narrative.

[02:16:28.630] - Joe Rogan

You are one of those experts.

[02:16:30.510] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, maybe because I looked in the camera and gave a wink in one of the interviews. I think it was Tucker Carlson where I said, Bring it on. And this is what I mean about this. This is a giant game of chicken. And the bottom line is the people who win are the people with the truth. The truth, in the end, is kryptonite to everything out there.

[02:16:54.500] - Joe Rogan

But it's taking toll on a lot of doctors.

[02:16:56.910] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The truth is powerful. Can you bring up the graphic of a big public program? It's a picture of a crowd. And I'm up in front. There's 500 doctors in my circles. Many of us are members of the Association of American Physician Surgeons or the Frontline Critical Care Consortium, or American Frontline Doctors or the Truth For Health Foundation? Look at this. This is an American reawakening. We are now going into cities and we'll have meetings, typically with lawmakers, several dozen lawmakers. And we'll go over the issues we've covered today, Joe.

[02:17:29.870] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We go into doctors programs. We'll have a smaller program for doctors. And then we go into big public programs. We are getting 500 to 5000 people coming into venues and basically going over the slides like I want today. This is like a medical grand rounds for the public. And when I tell people, I said, Where are the medical schools doing this? How come the medical schools aren't having public symposiums? We've had two years of COVID-19. Why are there no review of the data? Why are we not understanding vaccine safety and efficacy?

[02:17:59.970] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And I say, listen, this is all about just understanding it with the vaccines. For instance, about 70 80% of Americans took the vaccine. I give the data, do you know the most effective vaccine in terms of vaccine efficacy. You probably have concluded already Moderna Moderna because it's 100 micrograms of messenger RNA. Pfizer is only 30 micrograms of messengerna. It's more than three times the dose. Of course, it's a stronger vaccine. It's going to have more protection. The point is, the public, in the end, it's the court of public opinion and the public wants to know.

[02:18:32.650] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And, you know, on January 23 in Washington, there is actually a March to defeat the mandates. There is a March out there, an American homecoming. Do you know, it's my testimony and the testimony given by Jay Badachara that Judge Dowdy in the 6th federal court in Louisiana used to overturn the rest of the Biden CMS mandates. And then within a few days, a whole wave of States triggered, I guess, the mandates. Why? Because we have the truth. And you're talking to one of the two doctors who made it happen for the country.

[02:19:08.150] - Joe Rogan

Have you personally experienced any repercussions?

[02:19:11.880] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It's the most interesting thing I've experienced sniping when I mean, sniping. That means someone is shooting at you. But you can't see who they are. I've never had anybody have the guts to sit across the table for me and have a conversation.

[02:19:28.470] - Joe Rogan

If I could bring someone who is a proponent of the vaccines, would you be willing to have a conversation with them?

[02:19:36.120] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Bring them on. And we'll have Steve Kirsch. We'll split the $2 million because I could use it for my legal fees. I can tell you right now, Steve Kersh has been begging somebody to come and just have a discussion on vaccine efficacy. Let's go over theirs. Let's go over the efficacy data. Is this enough of a hospitalization and death benefit to consider taking it? So there's been some false narratives that have gone on that, in a sense, are working to make this forever. Joe, if you and I want to have Kova the rest of our lives, we would maintain these false narratives.

[02:20:09.540] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And this is what they are. They're asymptomatic spread. You and I can give it to each other. Another false narrative. We can get it over and over again. That means you and I sitting here with no masks. We have no symptoms. We can give it to each other over and over again. Can you imagine these false narratives and how about this? Take a vaccine and then take another vaccine every six months. I got Kobet where you can get it again. Take another vaccine. Well, it doesn't stop COVID we'll take another vaccine.

[02:20:33.010] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This is forever. So the false narratives that we have to. Absolutely. If we want to get past the pandemic that have to go is asymptomatic spread and asymptomatic testing, get it out of here. The other one is natural immunity, robust, complete and durable. Never wear a mask. Never take a vaccine. Never take another test. You're done it's one and done. I advised the Sherankan government. They reached out to me and said listen, we're in trouble. We're getting buried with COBIT. This was several months ago. They said we're running out of masks.

[02:20:59.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

What do we do? I say get your COVID recovery people out there and man the tents and start handing out the Iberamactin hydroxychlombased protocols. And that's what they did. And they handled the pandemic. I've personally had the Alpha variant. I was in research. I was tested. I've come face to face with Delta. Somebody red hot on my face. There are kids all over me. We actually made videos of they're going to be in two different. I came back eight days later. You can't get it. You cannot get it.

[02:21:23.650] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Do you know today that if someone's in a nursing home, there's somebody in my family in a nursing home, they've had covid 19. Do you know every time somebody in the nursing home gets covid 19, everybody gets put in a lockdown. That poor guy has been in solitary confinement six months out of the last year. He's already had covered 19. He's already paid the price. He should have free rein of the nursing home. He should never have to wear a mask. Do you know when someone's coveted recovered and they can't go into the hospital and see their loved one dying of coveted in the ICU, they can't get covet a second time.

[02:21:56.660] - Dr. Peter McCullough

See if we don't recognize natural immunity. This is really important. Do you know that Diana Harshberger, from a Republican House of Representatives? Congresswoman is basically proposing national legislation for recognizing natural immunity? It's very important. Natural immunity is far and away. The most important thing we can.

[02:22:19.750] - Joe Rogan

How do we establish it, though? How do you establish that someone recovered from Kovac has negative definitions?

[02:22:25.360] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Listen, what the FDA used for the registration of trials was fine. If someone said they had Kova and they had supportive testing, that counts. That would be you if someone never got the supportive test, but they thought they had it and they hit an antibody. If you hit Roche, LabCorp Quest, Abbott Ortho clinical diagnosis, you hit one of those. You're immune because those positive controls, Joe, are set people sick enough in the ICU.

[02:22:48.640] - Joe Rogan

What about I have a friend. She tested positive. I was telling you about her on the PCR three times, but she was completely asymptomatic. But then when she was tested for antibodies, no antibodies. She ran through three different PCR tests just to make sure Asymptomatic tested positive. And then now, when we test her for anybody, we've tested her here. She does not show anybody.

[02:23:12.290] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Yeah, 15% of people who have symptomatic COVID, and she didn't have that. But 15% of symptomatic COVID, they don't hit the antibodies because the positive controls are set on sick inpatients most people at home are not that sick. So a lot of people don't hit antibodies on the commercial tests. 15% don't. And if you don't get the T detect test. So the T detect test go to tiftect. Com, sign up. Put all your information in. Once the lab director approves it, you go to LabCorp, get your blood drawn.

[02:23:42.000] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And that looks for a next generation sequencing in the chromosomes of T cells to see if you've actually had COVID-19.

[02:23:47.760] - Joe Rogan

And so that would be T cell and B cell immunity that you would maintain, even though you don't show the antibodies.

[02:23:54.450] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Listen, the antibodies drop off in everybody. There's a paper by Israel on Jamie.

[02:23:58.960] - Joe Rogan

Yeah, but it was rock solid. I'm telling you, she has antibodies.

[02:24:02.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, I tell you.

[02:24:02.720] - Joe Rogan

That got coveted in October of last year, and he still got. Well, we're pretty sure he encountered it fairly recently, and his body fought it off because his antibodies went way up superhuman over there.

[02:24:18.770] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The papers in general suggest 15% of people don't hit the antibodies. I had COVID in October 2020. It was by PCR and antigen. I was in research. It was rock stable. I had Kova at all. The characteristic signs of my wife had it in the research protocol. We had to follow up with Quest and get our antibodies done. My wife hits the antibodies. Fine. I can't hit the antibodies. I go two more times. I can't hit the antibodies. I go, what the heck? And I looked into it.

[02:24:45.920] - Dr. Peter McCullough

15% of people. Just literally, if your treatment is so intensive at first, you actually don't get enough spike protein exposure to get such a high antibiotic title. And in fact, the natural infection, the antibiotic titer is much softer than with the vaccines, because with the vaccines, you get antibiotics against one protein, the spike protein. With the natural infection, you get antibiotic against 27 different proteins.

[02:25:07.300] - Joe Rogan

Sorry. Do you think that there can be an argument made that this milder form of the virus, this Omicron, which is apparently much milder as of today, where it was December 8, is that today there is. As far as what I read yesterday, I should say December, there was zero deaths attributed to this. So this is a milder form, and it seems to just give headaches and body aches. Would there be an argument that one should actually catch that? And that would be safer than even getting vaccinated?

[02:25:41.220] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It's a little early to say that, but I wanted to give you an update.

[02:25:46.110] - Joe Rogan

I don't want to recommend that to people. I'm just saying, is that a possibility?

[02:25:49.540] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There's a group in Boston that is absolutely knocking it out of the park. It's a company called Inference, and the lead author is Vancouver Krishnan, and the paper just came out and preprint. Oh, by the way, people need to know who's listening. Our peer reviewed literature runs anywhere from six months to four years behind reality. So we actually published something in New England Journal of Medicine, or we publish something in these journals in my Journal. I told you I submitted something in June. The treatment paper, which is so important, it was printed online in August.

[02:26:25.800] - Dr. Peter McCullough

It didn't appear in print until January. That's a typical publication cycle in COVID-19. We all agree that's too slow. covid 19 was fair. Game is called preprint, meaning that we get our data out early before it's gone through peer review just so people can make decisions. And so if I kind of Christian two days ago, just put this out on OMA. Oma Krone is not a transformer. It's very important. Your kids think it's a transformer. You thought it was a transformer. Paul Alexander on his post and Brownstone, actually on the McCullough report.

[02:26:54.720] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's what I did. I had to put Optimus Prime on there. It's not a transformer, Joe. It's actually the name of the Greek Alphabet, but it's interesting. Vancouver Christian tells us there are 37 mutations in the spike protein. This blows off the socks off anything else? There are six deletions, one insertion, and the surgeon, by the way, has some code that is almost for an episode of another virus. There are 30 substitutions that are non unique. You can find them in Alphabet. Beta, gamma and the other ones.

[02:27:29.750] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And 16 of the 37 are called surge mutations. So something happened in the surges when there was a lot of prevalence of disease and the virus was replicating being passed to people in these search times where the virus made a lot of mistakes. So I was called on TV last week for Fox News, Laura Ingram. So, Dr. Mccullough, what's the update on Omaha? I said, I think it looks like an evolutionary mistake. The initial you can actually do modeling studies based on once we know the code and the code is known really quickly.

[02:28:01.380] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Dr. Fantini out of France did modeling studies on our networks. We found out quickly the transmissibility to give you a perspective for the Wuhan wild type, the original virus, the transmissibility number transmissibility index was about two. The transmissibility of Delta, which has really been hard to treat. I think Delta has been way harder. You may have had Delta. I had Alpha. You may have had Delta. You could have still had Alpha, but transmissibility Delta ten. You know what the transmissibility OMA Krone is four. So for the first time, we've actually gone down in transmissibility and probably because the spike protein and the receptor binding domain where it binds to the ace two receptors so dysmorphic that it actually can't invade the body as much.

[02:28:53.160] - Dr. Peter McCullough

So that explains we haven't heard about these fulminant pulmonary syndromes. We haven't heard about these thrombonbach. It's mild so far. Now cross our fingers. People always ask me, is this a milder variant? I remember what Delta is. O is it milder? I said, wait a minute. What determines mild versus severe? Who gets early treatment? Mild or severe is not a natural history variable. What early treatment is so transformational. That's what determines death or hospitalization.

[02:29:19.920] - Joe Rogan

But what if Amcron chose to be mild across the board, even without early treatment.

[02:29:25.440] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Right? That's the key. So far we can just assume no early treatment. And so far we're watching the reports carefully. But you're right. It looks like it's milder. And this could be I don't think it's going to supplant Delta because Delta is more transmissible and is very successful in the vaccinated. Now, OMA Kron has actually arisen from the vaccinated, the kids that were passing the Botswana border. They were fully vaccinated, very symptomatic. But when you do, Omicron is interesting. When you run a PCR test, there's four primers.

[02:30:00.360] - Dr. Peter McCullough

There's an S protein, there's the nucleocapsite protein, the enveloperotein and the primaries. There's four. The spike protein is so mutated with Omicron that actually primer drops out of the PCR pattern. It's called SG dropout. So this is the first time based on depends on what PCR has done that actually the PCR itself could give a hint that it's Delta. Otherwise, PCRs just tell you, Sarsko, be two positive or negative. And then we have to wait for the public health labs to do the sequencing to tell us what variant it is.

[02:30:30.320] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This case, the PCR test could give us a signature. So we'll know with Omukron, we'll know what I've predicted last week on national TV. And again, science is changing. A person is not science. I'm not science. I'm just a doctor interpreting data, and it's subject to being better informed with more data. But I'm predicting right now I think it's going to be like Ada and Lambda because it's less transmissible than Delta. I think it will carve out its own ecological niche, but there would be no reason for it to supplant Delta unless it basically becomes almost like an infection of preference for the vaccinated.

[02:31:05.730] - Joe Rogan

Well, one thing that we've been talking about recently that concerns me, and I want to know what your thoughts on this were seeing as you spent your life in the medical establishment. My concern is that corporations, their goal is to continually make more money every year. They'd like to make more money than the last this year for the pharmaceutical companies. It's been an insanely profitable year because of the vaccines. I have a real concern. I wonder if you share this concern that they're going to try to continue to make the same amount of money.

[02:31:45.020] - Joe Rogan

And the best way to do that is to continue to encourage people to be vaccinated and to create new vaccines, even if they're not necessarily the right thing to do.

[02:31:57.280] - Dr. Peter McCullough

If it's about making money. I'd almost prefer the vaccines get full FDA approval. None of the vaccines are FDA approved. Even Pfizer is not FDA approved. That was a false talking point. Pfizer has a continuation of the EU, Bio and Tech, which is not in the United States, got a biological licensing agreement. That still means they have to do a lot to get approved. They have to actually have an approved package insert. They have to commit to post marketing studies on myocarditis they have to give safety warnings on pregnancy.

[02:32:23.110] - Dr. Peter McCullough

They're not there yet. So no product is approved in the United States. They're all emergency use authorized. Everybody needs to know that another false talking point. That Pfizer was approved on August 23. When all the way up to the President of the United States? Since when in history do we have false talking points issued out of FDA meetings that go up to the President of the United States so they're not approved? Listen, everybody is entitled to make some money. What seems unfair about this? What seems unfair about this is the government paid for the development costs.

[02:32:53.760] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The government pre purchased the products even before they knew it was going to work or not work. And we know that with a new pharmaceutical company, a new product that was developed by a pharmaceutical company was a new company or existing company. We know a benchmark for a blockbuster drug would be a billion dollars of sales in its first year. That's a benchmark. And typically half of that billion is spent on the sales force. There's an investment of billions of dollars in RND. Do you know with the vaccines that Pfizer in his first year hit 33 billion?

[02:33:28.680] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And now I think next year, $36 billion, no development costs. The government no sales force because they don't have to sell the vaccine. They are just the suppliers to the government program.

[02:33:42.370] - Joe Rogan

Is that a dangerous relationship?

[02:33:47.950] - Dr. Peter McCullough

What's dangerous is not fair balance. If we had FDA approved products, you see them on TV. What's the last time you saw a drug commercial? Let's say you have a drug that's for Psoriasis. Oh, my psoriasis cleared up. Remember the people diving in a pool and they don't have any Psoriasis. They have beautiful skin. They're happy and they're dancing. Okay, you take a Psoriasis drug, Joe. It says warning may cause tuberculosis. Get a TB test. Warning there's fair balance. That's the US Drug and Cosmetic Act. That's the Landman Act.

[02:34:18.170] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We actually have the Truth in Advertising Act. There must be fair balance. Every product has a risk and a benefit. Every product has a risk and benefit. We can never propose a product to anybody in the United States without fair balance. You mentioned myocarditis and I have to tell you, since you had them on the show. And since we're both graduates of the University of Michigan, which, by the way, is I think it's one of the better places in the United States. He went to medical school there.

[02:34:48.020] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I went to graduate school there. I went to UT Southwestern. I finished top of my class at Alpha Mega Alpha. The doctors who are in the Noahide Tree COVID-19. Were no chump change. I went to University of Washington and Seattle top medicine residency program in the United States. I'm the most published person in my field in world in history. I have 51 publications in Kova 19. I have US Senate testimony a judge just relied on my testimony to overturn the entire mandates for the whole country.

[02:35:14.290] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I'm telling you, when I had an interview with Tucker Carlson, he started getting worked up. He looked at the monitor. He goes, if you don't know who this doctor is, why don't you look at him? He goes, he has authority, and he's right. I do have authority, Joe. And the reason why I'm telling you this is because what's going on here is that we have a situation where we have people in positions of authority. The person you had on here in a position of authority was Sanjay Gupta.

[02:35:38.720] - Dr. Peter McCullough

And I'm going to pick up a little bit because Sanjay Gupta came on Sesame Street, and I want to show the graphic if I don't have it. He came on Sesame Street, and what he did is with another CNN correspondent. He was actually seducing children into taking the vaccine.

[02:35:57.610] - Joe Rogan

Yeah, I saw that. It's very disturbed.

[02:35:59.390] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Okay, Seducing, I am telling you no good doctor would do that because there must be risks and benefits. Did he tell the kids and the parents there's FDA warnings that this can cause heart inflammation? Did the other CNN correspondent who is a mother? Did she show even show an ounce of concern what Scott Atlas uses in his book Joe's he used the term he uses is off the rails. We're off the rails. People in positions of authority are doing bad things, trying to seduce children into taking a vaccine that has official FDA warnings on it without giving fair balance.

[02:36:35.350] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's malfeasance. That's wrongdoing by people in position of authority.

[02:36:39.150] - Joe Rogan

Particularly when you look at the risk versus reward benefit for children. Right. The risk of covert is very low for children. When they talk about children being hospitalized for Covit, they almost all have severe comorbidities.

[02:36:53.950] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I don't care if it's one case of myocarditis right. If it could happen. The idea that we would not present something in a fair, balanced manner on TV, there should never be an official on TV that says the vaccines are safe and effective. Take them. Listen. They have to be proven. Show us the safety and show us the efficacy and let people make a choice. One cannot conclude that they're safe and effective without showing any data. I would never do that.

[02:37:24.190] - Joe Rogan

And this is the only time that's ever been forced on the American people.

[02:37:26.990] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That way, it's the only time it's ever been presented to the American people. I can tell you what we've got a history in this. If you go back to this is Sanjay Gupta and the CNN correspondent. There was no fair balance there. I got nauseated when I saw that.

[02:37:47.850] - Joe Rogan

It's just bizarre that he would do that. I don't understand it.

[02:37:51.120] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Well, remember, he parodied a talking point. That our head of the national allergy and Immunology branch period. They said that there was no data for Ivomectin. They said it was a Horse Dewormer. Now, either they knew or they should have known the 63 supportive studies and of the over 30 randomized trials. Hey, that's a court of law. Either you knew or you should have known. A person in a position of authority either knew or should have known. Scott Ellis says they're incompetent. They don't know. That's what he says.

[02:38:27.810] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Bring him on. He'll tell you he thinks they're incompetent. I'm not so sure it's either they knew or they should have known. Either one of those is good. Either he knows or he should have known. Either one is not good. Which one is it? Ask them, give them a call. Which one is it? Do you know about the myocarditis risks, or should you know.

[02:38:48.810] - Joe Rogan

He most certainly knows because I showed it to him on the show. I mean, that was a weird moment on the show, in fact, because he was trying to look at the results and spin it the other way, and I had to go over it with him again, saying, no, you're looking at this wrong. It's the opposite of what you're saying. There's a four to six fold increase in myocarditis in children that are vaccinated versus the amount of children that are hospitalized from Kova for all causes.

[02:39:23.030] - Joe Rogan

So they're four to six times more likely to get myocarditis than they are to even be hospitalized for COVID, which is crazy, right?

[02:39:32.310] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's the Hoganelesis not disputed by the FDA. There's another point. This is a nuance. I want to get this out. There is a I want to say, basically misleading paper than ringwateral medicine that says that if one gets covered the respiratory illness, they're more likely to get myocarditis than take a vaccine. Okay, I can tell you I'm a doctor. I've taken care of hundreds and hundreds of coded patients. I've advised on thousands, by the way, none of the media doctors outside of myself, Steve Smith and Gosh, maybe there's one other on there.

[02:40:08.960] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I know, George ferrid. Maybe. I think there's three doctors that America has seen on TV that's actually seen a COVID patient and actually treated COVID patient. That's it. You know, the minority witness in the Senate testimony, Ron Johnson, waited about 2 hours into the testimony after he was advising on America on how to handle COVID-19. He said, Doctor, have you ever seen a coveted patient? He said, no, I haven't. He said, I have no more questions. I'm telling you, there is almost a fraudulent scheme to this.

[02:40:39.980] - Dr. Peter McCullough

This knowing the general medicine paper said it said that myocarditis more likely in those with COVID-19 than with the vaccine. What we know is that someone sick enough to be in the hospital, who's in the ICU can have a small rise in troponin. That's the blood test indicating cardiac injury. But half the people in the ICU have that anyway, from pneumococcal, pneumonia, staph, sepsis, et cetera. It's just part of being the ICU. Okay, the Chinese never called that myocarditis. They called that cardiac injury with Covet.

[02:41:11.370] - Dr. Peter McCullough

The Chinese were right. It's just a troponin elevation. That's it. It's largely inconsequential. We don't do anything about it. That's very different than the explosive chest pain, early heart failure, EKG and massive troponin rises. We see with vaccine induced mycarditis, they are two completely separate syndromes. What they know in the general medicine paper is they just use the numbers. If you have lots of adults being admitted to the ICU, you're going to have big numbers of people who have a trivial rise in troponin. It's inconsequential.

[02:41:39.240] - Dr. Peter McCullough

That's different than myocarditis after the vaccine, which has a lower occurrence rate.

[02:41:43.480] - Joe Rogan

And why is it Mylar carditis after the vaccine? Like, why is the vaccine inducing myocarditis at such a high rate when they're both it's the spike protein is responsible for both of them. Correct.

[02:41:55.040] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I think it's a lipid nanoparticles and the lipid nanoparticles are very important. Remember, parts of the body are more lipophilic. They take up lipids better than others. The heart is interesting. It relies on about 80% of its fuel is fatty acids versus 20% sugar. The skeletal muscles are just the opposite. They're 80% sugar, 20% fatty acids. So we know that the lipid nanoparticles are almost certainly taken up in the heart. Preferentially. They're definitely taken up in the ovaries and the corpus glutams taken up in the adrenals.

[02:42:29.690] - Dr. Peter McCullough

We know that they go to the brain. There's been enough autopsy studies of freshly vaccinated people. You can see what gets seeded. The vaccine goes everywhere in the body. Within a matter of hours, the vaccine seeds up in the brain into the heart, the adrenals, the ovaries elsewhere. And I think the vaccine actually loads the heart, probably with more spike protein that one would ambiently get with a respiratory infection because of the liquid nanoparticles. The lipid nanoparticles.

[02:42:55.020] - Joe Rogan

Lipid nanoparticles. This is obviously something that most people should know. What you're saying is obviously information that most people when you're talking about a population of 300 plus million people and 200 plus million people have been vaccinated already. I would like to think that this is information that people want to know.

[02:43:21.150] - Dr. Peter McCullough

I agree.

[02:43:21.980] - Joe Rogan

How much does it disturb you that this is being censored? Because on every other platform this conversation we're having right now would be censored every other online platform, social media. They would censor this for sure on YouTube. But what you're saying is incredibly important.

[02:43:43.410] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Censorship that has suppressed for two years, information on safe and effective early treatment and censorship on vaccine safety has led to large numbers of deaths, hospitalizations and permanent disability. Joe, there is no bigger public health crisis than the impact of censorship in covid 19.

[02:44:16.390] - Joe Rogan

We just did 3 hours. Believe it or not, isn't that incredible? I want to thank you. I want to thank you for your courage. Thank you for your dedication. Thank you for your time for coming here and thank you for explaining this so eloquently. It's very disturbing. But I think we're all better off having this truth.

[02:44:35.390] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Thank you.

[02:44:36.210] - Joe Rogan

Thank you. Do you have a website that people can visit? For more information?

[02:44:42.260] - Dr. Peter McCullough

You can follow me on America Loud Talk radio. The McCullough Report. I issue a weekly other parts of the country.

[02:44:47.520] - Joe Rogan

Okay. Thank you very much.

[02:44:48.930] - Dr. Peter McCullough

Thank you. Bye.