I shot my first green screen band performance a few weeks back, unfortunately on a less than shoestring budget and we had to make a lot of compromises. Unfortunately it bit us in the butt and we've all learned a few lessons (including we needed more budget to do the green right! :-)

But as part of diagnosing our problem with the keying in post, the footage was sent to a colorist for his opinion on if he could do anything to help the editor make a better key-out. The colorist came back with some suggestions for lighting changes on the reshoot, but one thing that caught my ear was "use + magenta on all your edge/backlights"


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Basically overall the footage is unusable because we tried to wing it, and we failed. Oh well, I'm learning my lesson. But where can I do some research and learn more about how to light and rig a good green screen setup for a 4 piece band performance (ie, not just a talking head against a backdrop which is all I've been able to find people talking about on the internet). I need to learn how to do a whole sound stage, not just a 5'x5' wall. Any ideas on where I can learn this? I know that practice and experience are the mothers of all knowledge, but I need some starting points to work from because obviously I thought I knew how to sort of make it work (which I actually did), but the lack of budget didn't allow me to utilize a bigger space (for more room to work & light with) or provide enough sources for the different things I needed to do (background illumination, key lights, edge/back lights, etc)- I was using sources for multiple purposes and it only worked 1/2 the time.

In another thread someone had suggested fxphd.com, but I'm not sure that'll be useful. It seems like that's more about learning to do effects yoruself in the computer, etc.... I just want to learn about how to light a stage versus a wall for chroma-key work.

If you look at a color wheel, magenta is opposite green. By using hair lights with magenta on them, you make it easier to differentiate the people from the background, and not have greenspill on them....That's what I think anyway.

Adding magenta can negate *part* of one problem, and add a new problem. Yes, for areas with green spill, you negate it. However, just as it's difficult to control spill, it's also difficult to control exactly where the magenta hits your subject. So areas that don't have green spill to begin with now have magenta in them. This creates the unintended compositing problem of having an additional color that you didn't want to begin with. Perhaps the colorist you spoke with has some ideas around this issue, but just a heads up that it can be a problem.

I second this. You end up having issues with both colors instead of just one. I used to hear this from a lot of old school gaffers who worked before digi green/blue screens and digital keying. The best advice I can give, is to use a big enough screen to cover your action and at the same time allow enough distance between the screen and your subjects to lessen spill. If you don't have the money to do that, seemingly the issue here, any sort of backlight/kick light that registers will also help a great deal. That is of course if it works within your lighting scheme appropriately. Basically it defines the subject further and also helps negate some of the green spill by simply being present in it's place.

In the past few days the footage has been sent to a second editor who's having MUCH better results- so maybe the first guy just isn't great at keying?? We'll see, he's diving in to the footage this weekend and hopefully I'll see a first pass Monday.

Yeah, I thought it made sense a bit, but if you don't have spill, then you've introduced MORE color issues in the other direction. Something to think about the next time I'm on a green set that isn't too big.

The best way to light a subject in front of a greenscreen is to replicate as closely as possible the lighting that they would be in if they were actually in the environment you're comping them into. If you're putting them on a spaceship or a beach or a skyscraper, would there be magenta light on them? If not, don't use it. Even with a perfect key, your composite will suffer terribly from being improperly lit.

As far as the minus green goes, avoid it at all costs since it will give you another problem to work with in post; adding a backlight to separate the subject from the background may not fit in with the scene. Instead, place your subject as far away from the screen as possible--not only does this reduce the possibility of spill on the subject, but it blurs the screen and allows for a more even key.

You can also make a number of adjustments to your mask after primary keying, such as choke, shrink, pre blur, white/black max/min, etc... They're not a perfect solution to a bad key, but they help. What are you using to key?

I wondered if this was an obsolete technique that was phased out by better technology - or was it a lost art form that we needed to retrain ourselves to make time for because it can help us shoot better and faster (which is what I am always looking to do).

Notice how rich the green is compared to the first image without the green gel. When you look at them side-by-side, you can see that the non-gelled green screen is A.) less saturated and B.) has a distinct blue hue to it. The CalColor Green removed that excess blue contamination and yielded a purer green.

Guest Author Barry Andersson is an award-winning director and cinematographer and the author of The DSLR Filmmakers Handbook. His career includes shooting/directing feature-length films, several acclaimed short films and numerous commercials. Besides his book, Barry also shares his expertise via nationwide workshops, global webinars and a number of articles on sites like ProVideo Coalition, Planet 5D and ProductionHub.com.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. The lighting channel helps with blocking some lights in my scene such as the HDRI and directional lights but for some reason it does not help block out the rect lights in the scene which are lighting up my room and character. Even putting those lights on separate channels from the backdrop I can still see the light on the green screen.

As for the lighting channels method it seems like changing the green screen to a separate lighting channel does prevent the direct light from showing on it but as you said the lights still bounce off the walls in my room and my character. Not sure what to do here

I have been trying to take my green screen game to the next level for a while and last night I found the ultimate guide so I thought I would share it. If you are having issues getting good effects with your green screen, take a look at this video (it is not mine). If you think your green screen is really good, I'm sure there's a tip for you in here too! This is the best video I have seen on this subject and I have looked at a lot of them!

Later this week I will be shuffling my studio to apply some of those tips and will keep you posted on the results. I hope this helps someone! Share your green screen tips if you have any that are not on the list.

I agree with Carlos, you will need to get a flatter green screen. The lines are likely not helping. Try standing a little further away from the screen as well and as Larry suggested, try a light on top of your head (very very low, just to give your hair a little shine). Also, I'm not familiar with the software you are using but there is likely a few settings to change the sensitivity of your keyer. I'm expecting because your screen is not perfectly flat and solid, the software is having to use dark green as a color to make transparent, which in turn is taking some of your hair out as well. Getting a good green screen is very tough and will take several tries.

I will be making a post soon. I just completely redid my green screen setup and man oh man, what a difference!! The biggest difference was using better lights for the screen (homebuilt for cheap too!) and using all the same temperature (color) bulbs. I settled for 5000K but it doesn't really matter. I have almost zero work to do in editing now to get everything color balance and my keyer is 100% spot on with one click.

About the f.stop on your lens: I would not try to blur the background, that background being the green screen. If you are using a green screen then you can insert a photo as background, that is blured. I recommend that your f.stop be at least 5.6 otherwise your depth of field may cause you to be out of focus with just leaning forward or back. If you are down to around f.2.0 your nose and your ear will be out of focus if one is in focus. The more depth of field (higher f.stop) the less chance of being out of focus. Of course, the more light you have, the higher you can move the f.stop.

Great suggestions. I actually had in mind 2-3 meters (that's how my european brain works) and I forgot to translate when I wrote it down. I will amend. I agree that if you have the room, the further the better, which also helps with blurring the background. f2.0 is definitely not recommended. f5.6 is where most lenses are sharp.

*** I wanted to give an update on this topic because it took me a long time to get what I think is the proper setup. I'm sharing this in hope that someone else can find it useful and not have to experiment as I did. ***

I'll start with what I did for my very first Udemy course. I went to Joan's fabric to get the greenest and most neon looking big piece of fabric I could find. Then I hung it behind my desk. Then I put a lot of lights on my desk lighting up my face and lighting up my green screen (both from the same location... mistake). The lights were those Home Depot $8 metallic light bulb holders that you can clamp on things. Cheap! I got some 60W and 100W light bulbs, not sure what color temperature they were but here's what I got: something that was hard to white balance and to key! I look at this and I cringe now, the green screen is yellow, has tons of shadows, wrinkles. My face has weird nose shadows, a bad hue, etc...

I made it work though, this is the course that still brings me the most money each month, is best seller and best rated (at 4.6). I am in the process of reshooting this course as explained in this thread. Students never complained about the quality of the course production, not once! 152ee80cbc

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