Hear this: My friend Brian has a new Spotify mix of funk and soul classics that you need to listen to. \u2018Stop talking across the table, Clarence\u2019 is intended for the spades games we\u2019re all going to have once we can see each other again. I know I\u2019ve said it before, but spades is the best card game of all time, and if you think you know how to play, come see Brian and me at the table.

Jacob openly discusses race and other topics prompting a deeper conversation with her readers. She talks about her struggles, love/marriage, her career as a writer, among many other aspects of her life.. My favorite parts were the open and candid conversations with her son. He asks a lot of difficult questions and she tries to answer them in the best way she can.


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Mira Jacob (b. January 5, 1973, in Albuquerque, New Mexico) is an American writer. She is the author of The Sleepwalker's Guide to Dancing (2014), a novel about a patriarch who starts talking to ghosts, and Good Talk (2019), a graphic memoir.

Jacob is the founder of Pete's Reading Series, a reading series in Brooklyn.[2] She is the author of The Sleepwalker's Guide to Dancing, a novel about a patriarch who starts talking to ghosts, and how his seeing spirits affects his family.[3] The Sleepwalker's Guide to Dancing took Jacob 10 years to complete, during which time her father became sick and died. After his death, Jacob rewrote much of the book with the father character as her own father.[4]

Sage Van Wing is the executive editor of talk and podcasts for OPB./p>\nShe has produced daily news programs at other NPR affiliate stations Vermont Public Radio, KUOW in Seattle and KQED in San Francisco.

MJ: Conversations are so important to me. Again, my original interest in storytelling were to capture the stories of my parents, right? The conversations I had with them. So I realized that I could do a book filled with only drawings and conversations. I don't have to do a lot of world building. I can quickly get to the good part. I can get to the part that I like, which is the talking.

Eventually we will meander down to the East River, where the wind off the water bites our faces and colors our cheeks. As we crunch through the snow, Mira keeps trying to turn the conversation off of herself and back onto me. Peppering me with questions, often causing me to turn off my recorder so I\u2019m not stuck transcribing my own stories. But that\u2019s who Mira is. She wants to talk. She wants to listen. She wants to have a conversation.

I: Now we\u2019re talking about Good Talk, your second book. How did you go from drawing as a process to help you with your fiction to saying, \u201CI\u2019m going to write a graphic memoir\u201D?

Because I often find with memoir\u2014there's always this point at which you want to write the better story. You are tempted to make it a more exciting story. But if you don't, if you sit with the reality, then it becomes its own miracle.

MJ: Think about it. The thing that we were given\u2014evolutionarily\u2014to try to be with each other is talking. Talking is so fucked up. It's such an imperfect way to do anything. Right now we\u2019re both talking, but we\u2019re also thinking, we\u2019re distracted by what\u2019s going on around us. I might say something that means one thing to me, but you might interpret it in an incredibly different way than I meant it. But we all still do it. We keep talking. We keep communicating. I love that we keep going.

MJ: One person makes noises out of their mouth hole at somebody else who is receiving those noises through their ear holes, but that person is also thinking about the noises they're about to blow out of their own mouth hole at the other person\u2019s ear holes. When you really think about what talking is it\u2019s completely nuts.

But also, I love that we\u2014being the weird animals that we are\u2014we all agree, \u201CYeah, I'm going to do this again.\u201D We say to each other, \u201CYou know what? I'm uncomfortable. So here\u2019s what I\u2019m going to do. I'm going to talk to you about it.\u201D Which is almost always a disaster. But we keep doing it. We keep trying. We all believe, \u201CTalking will solve this. We\u2019ll talk it out.\u201D Did it work? No. But then we try again. \u201CThis will work this time. The talking will work. Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow. But one day the talking will work.\u201D

MJ: Z and I were talking last year and\u2014you know, his dad's white\u2014so we were talking about race and he said, \u201CWait, mom. Do you think that all white Americans are racist?\u201D And I try to be honest with Z, so I responded \u201CYeah, sure.\u201D

Which is when I get a text from Z. \u201CMom, I told the white kids that all white people are racist and they're really, really angry with me. They didn't like it at all.\u201D And I text back. \u201CYeah, no, they're never going to like that. Come home, I'll make you some tea, we can talk about it.\u201D

MJ: And these kids are his friends, so he asks me, \u201CWhy would they do that? I thought they would want to know. Now they say they're going to hurt me.\u201D And I tell him we don\u2019t have to talk about it right now, that it\u2019s ok to just feel sad, but he\u2019s fired up. He wants to figure it out\u2014fix it, you know? So I\u2019m saying, \u201CPeople don't like being told they're racist, ever. You got upset too, remember? You can understand why it's painful. They think you're saying they're bad people. But it's not about that. People aren't racist because they're bad. And there are good people that love me and are also racist to me. It sucks. When that happens, I get so confused and so hurt.\u201D

Anyhow, we're talking and meanwhile, he\u2019s getting all of these texts\u2014a wall of texts\u2014from kids who are very, very angry at him. They're telling him that they don't like him anymore, that now they see who he really is, that they're going to humiliate him. Eventually a parent even reaches out to me, so I decide that I should probably tell the school what happened. I have no idea how any of this is going to go over. I figured the school would be upset, or tell me the conversation I had with Z was wrong, or simply try and ignore it. But anyway, I write his homeroom teacher\u2014a Black woman\u2014and explain what happened.

That response has never happened in my life. Truly. His teacher went on to write how this kind of thing is painful but also a good chance to learn. \u201CIf we're going to call ourselves an anti-racist school we will have to step up and have a talk.\u201D Which was honestly news to me! I didn't even know this Brooklyn public school called itself anti-racist.

There was so much more to it. A lot of the kids reached out to Z. One Black girl in his class was like, \u201CMy uncle says you\u2019re right. He\u2019s a music promoter and he wants to send you a t-shirt.\u201D Other parents and I talked.

MJ: Exactly. And this all happened the same week Texas and Georgia put up bills banning Critical Race Theory so, you know, the world keeps being the world. And I\u2019m sure some of those students are still working through it. But thanks to that teacher, they had a really good, difficult talk.

By now we have made our way back to Mira\u2019s idyllic block. She\u2019s regaled me with stories of seeing the entire cast of The Sopranos years ago at a bar then owned by Michael Imperioli\u2014 \u201CIn New York you play it cool around celebrities, of course, but every single person in that bar ran outside and then simply turned around and stared at all of them through the front window\u201D\u2014and the projects that husband, Jed Rothstein, is currently working on\u2014\u201Cit\u2019s a musical about Rudy Giuliani and Jed is simply having the best time. He\u2019s so happy!\u201D We\u2019ve been walking for hours, yet there\u2019s still so much more we could talk about.

Mira smiles. \u201CYou know what? We do this thing now where we get on the phone and go for a walk together. It\u2019s not the same, but it\u2019s close. It\u2019s so good to just walk and talk with my friend.\u201D

Mira Jacob is the author of The Sleepwalker's Guide to Dancing, which was named one of the best books of 2014 by Kirkus Reviews, the Boston Globe, Goodreads, Bustle, and The Millions. This piece is part of a graphic memoir she is working on called Good Talk: Conversations I Am Still Confused About. Follow her on Twitter: @mirajacob.

Mira Jacob is an author, illustrator, and cultural critic. Her 2019 graphic memoir, Good Talk, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, and her writing can be found in places like The New York Times Book Review and Vogue. Today we talk with Mira about the ways optimism is a form of bravery, the alignment of form, function, and story, and the system that leads to authors writing blurbs for books.

Instead, it is an incredibly insightful dissection into the messy politics of belonging, a revealing collection of voices. It leaves enough of a blank space for the reader to insert themselves into these issues and engage in some good talk of their own, for as long as there is good talk, there is hope for a more tolerant tomorrow.

On a cold day in early January, Jacob and I talked, over tea, about this new book of hers that is, at its core, a frank address, from parent to child, expressing hope and helplessness in the face of a baffling, uncertain future. 006ab0faaa

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